What is the value of LP by itself?

As I said I won't deal in hypotheticals. That could certainly be the case but it could also not be. Are you printing money from nowhere? Is that printing being done in a tremendous volume? If either or both of those is yes then I think it's pretty fair to say we'd be pretty displeased.

As it stands today our stance is that buying something and purposely blowing it up to generate value in another currency is exploiting. It was clearly not our intent in creating the system for that to occur. The system was meant to encourage PVP not wanton suicidal destruction to print money.

I guess it would somewhat logically be the same to use an example as going to the lamp shop in America, buying a lamp and smashing it, and having the Chinese manufacturer send more money than you paid for it to your account over and over and over again. It's a bit of a stretch in my opinion at least to think this would ever be acceptable.

doesn't really make sense to me. they didn't report the exploit immediatly, they abused it for two weeks, then basicly took the work ccp did for FW and took a steamy dump on it in front of the entire player base. who knows how much this frustrated players or caused people to unsub. who's in charge here ccp? you or goons? my best guess a dev told em about the exploit and it wouldn't be the first time a dev has given someone in game a perk. (cough t2 bpos! for all my friends cough cough)

I think it certainly has an impact on EVE as you stated, but that impact is something new. To make a statement of USING THE MARKET TO GAIN MONEY IS OVER EVE IS DYING, is a bit silly. (Not you specifically but others in this thread) This isn't a legacy problem and has no impact on how you deal with existing systems. It only impacts your interaction with FW.

What we need to do is take a good long hard look at how to deal with items that have disparate values in what are essentially two currencies. I'm pretty sure that is the pivot point in this scenario and from that perspective I'm just Winston Wolf. I don't design these systems.

As it stands today our stance is that buying something and purposely blowing it up to generate value in another currency is exploiting. It was clearly not our intent in creating the system for that to occur. The system was meant to encourage PVP not wanton suicidal destruction to print money.

I guess it would somewhat logically be the same to use an example as going to the lamp shop in America, buying a lamp and smashing it, and having the Chinese manufacturer send more money than you paid for it to your account over and over and over again. It's a bit of a stretch in my opinion at least to think this would ever be acceptable.

There's certainly a design flaw here that needs to be worked out but we have never intentionally introduced a system in EVE where buying an item and killing yourself should be a legitimate way to manufacture income. Least of all on a massive scale.

Insurance fraud was anything but Hypothetical. Those exact circumstance happened and was abused on a very large scale. If it's an exploit, why no rollback?

I'm discussing this exploit not any one of a number of hypothetical past or future exploits. (or non-exploits)

The issue is the thing you've said directly applies to insurance fraud. Insurance fraud was directly a case where you blew something up and got more than the value of that item back - in isk not an alternative currency like lp.

While I'm sure this is destined to be a goon-run threadnaught, I personally think CCP handled this perfectly. They could have gone extreme and seized all of their assets and isk and banned them, or they could have just ignored the problem (old CCP), but this explanation and the consequences seem very well balanced and *gasp*... fair.

Whoever was in charge of dealing with this... should be given more freedom to deal with things.

+1

I'm discussing this exploit not any one of a number of hypothetical past or future exploits. (or non-exploits)

http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&view=kills&plt_id=1372523&m=6&y=2012

That is one char. EVE Kill doesn't seem to use CCP values though. But even with EVE Central prices the 160b freighter kill will stand etc.

I don't disagree at all I'm just tired and really not prepared to compare one to the other. I'm still heads down in fixing this one.

You may not have noticed, but all five of us involved (or the ones posting, anyway) are satisfied with CCP's judgement. I mean, we'd prefer our trillions, but we're all capable market players...I'm sure we'll get there on our own soon enough.

The other goons posting are posting because posting is what goons do.

What we said was that this could be done in such a way that lead to an artificial disparity (albeit one created by our own systems) between the real value of an item and the number we were calculating value based upon to magically die over and over again to gain another currency.

Not only that, but I was already a trilloinare before this. It's not like I am crying all the way to the poor house if CCP just unwinds me. I will remain one of the riches players in EVE. Sure, I would more like trillions, but I got many news articles, a 160 page thread or whatever, multiple blogs/news annoucements and the most hilarious graph to ever exist in the history of EVE play.

Throw in the most ISK in kills/deaths records, and goddamn. I am pretty smug.


But really. The true reward is to dunk on Stoffer. If there is one things goons love, it's trolling goons. Even Ex-goons.

CCP gets press, we get our capital back, EVE gets another hilarious footnote in history. Everyone won here. We just won less than we woulda liked.

Sometimes Emergent Gameplay means dunking so hard you break the backboard!



I can't say we are happy about this decision, but we respect it. Being unwound is a good thing as it gets us our capital back, and at least shows CCP wanted to be fair here. I applaud that decision.


Highest Kill Value ever in EVE? http://imgur.com/1fSsT

Fair enough. Insurance fraud just happened to hit both of your Xes in your IF X THEN CCP=Mad statement.

In fact, Insurance Fraud occurred the exact same way that the FW exploit started (with the freighters full of minerals).

The market fell >> The CCP value of minerals stayed higher than the market >> People committed blew up their ships to make tons of money. In this case it was LP, with insurance fraud it was ISK, and instead of having to pay for insurance, all you had to do was join FW.

The furtherance of the exploit was due to the small size of the EvE market and the presence of totally useless, rare items.

I've said it before and I'll say it again,

Every single one of you dirtbags needs a big giant BAN. Every..single..one. If you're Goonswarm, your only desire is to see people quit playing Eve, and basically destroy it. You are a threat and you should be treated as one. Anyone wearing the Goonswarm tags should be permanently banned from Eve Online.

Not only that, but I was already a trillionaire before this. It's not like I am crying all the way to the poor house if CCP just unwinds me. I will remain one of the riches players in EVE. Sure, I would more like trillions, but I got many news articles, a 160 page thread or whatever, multiple blogs/news annoucements and the most hilarious graph to ever exist in the history of EVE play.

Throw in the most ISK in kills/deaths records, and goddamn. I am pretty smug.


But really. The true reward is to dunk on Stoffer. If there is one things goons love, it's trolling goons. Even Ex-goons.

CCP gets press, we get our capital back, EVE gets another hilarious footnote in history. Everyone won here. We just won less than we woulda liked.

I've said it before and I'll say it again,

Every single one of you dirtbags needs a big giant BAN. Every..single..one. If you're Goonswarm, your only desire is to see people quit playing Eve, and basically destroy it. You are a threat and you should be treated as one. Anyone wearing the Goonswarm tags should be permanently banned from Eve Online.

Inquiring minds want to know how you determine the "real value" of an item.

It's in the blog. There's the current cost you pay for an item and there's the rolling average of the item's value. LP gain was tied to the long term average cost which is calculated by us. By causing disparity in the two values, whether on purpose or if it happens naturally, you can be in a position where you can print LP (corrected :)) by just buying things and shooting yourself.

The destruction of items to harvest LP is the main issue here. The manipulation of the average cost in and of itself is not at this point in time considered problematic. It's merely how much that can be used to amplify the damage caused by the destruction.

Not only that, but I was already a trillionaire before this. It's not like I am crying all the way to the poor house if CCP just unwinds me. I will remain one of the riches players in EVE. Sure, I would more like trillions, but I got many news articles, a 160 page thread or whatever, multiple blogs/news annoucements and the most hilarious graph to ever exist in the history of EVE play.

Throw in the most ISK in kills/deaths records, and goddamn. I am pretty smug.


But really. The true reward is to dunk on Stoffer. If there is one things goons love, it's trolling goons. Even Ex-goons.

CCP gets press, we get our capital back, EVE gets another hilarious footnote in history. Everyone won here. We just won less than we woulda liked.

Goon tears best tears.

this kind of market/LP payout/whatever anomalies should have been detected by CCP long before anyone admited the exploit.

this was basically a best case scenario, a small group of people creates an exceptional LP payout anomaly. If something changes by factor 1000 repeatedly every light should blink at the monitoring tools.

you are monitoring FW, aren't you?