graphporn yay

good job on the market changes, very much appreciated

Good job!

The one thing I feel the need to nitpick about is that implant names are unnecessarily long:

Inherent Implants 'Noble' Hull Upgrades HG-1001

Only the underlined part of the name actually helps us understand which implant it is (please correct if wrong). The rest is a bit too much fluff in my opinion.

I have not used mspaint in far to long and so that graph took me far longer than it should have. :P

People whine when the fluff is removed.


Good job on this.

and appropriate that FoxFour is talking about missiles.

mspaint? Do it in excel, much easier.

Good job!

The one thing I feel the need to nitpick about is that implant names are unnecessarily long:

Inherent Implants 'Noble' Hull Upgrades HG-1001

Only the underlined part of the name actually helps us understand which implant it is (please correct if wrong). The rest is a bit too much fluff. "Roleplay" relevant info should like the manufacturer name should be in the description.

I thought Assault Missiles used to be Heavy Assault Missiles, no? And they were changed recently so that "Heavy Assault Missiles" and "Heavy Missiles" wouldn't both be in the game, because they sound too similar and are confusing? Now you're undoing that recent good work, unless I'm crazy.

Surely you want to change Heavy Assault Missile Launchers -> Assault Missile Launchers instead!? Then the potential for confusion between HAMs and Heavies will stay removed.

If you're gonna be working on missiles FoxThree would have been more appropriate

Love the graph !

"Fox 4" = facetious reference to missile shot; for example, if someone claimed to shoot a missile in an impossible situation, he might be accused of shooting a non-existent "top secret" missile requiring a "Fox 4" call. Also jokingly used when an aircraft is brought down by something other than a missile; for example, a midair collision.

As for why we changed the missile names instead of the launchers, after much discussion and back and forth about it we decided to change the missiles instead of the launchers. I know that doesn't really answer the why, but we did talk about it at length.

I will admit one of the talking points was no one wants to call them AM Drakes instead of HAM Drakes. Ham is just so tasty.

More type name changes make my third-party dev face sad

... but the slightly OCD part of me happy... ah well, you win some and lose some...

I do apologize for that. Still waiting for all the people who host killboards to come into this thread...

I'm still gonna call them FoFs, so take that CCP!

Yay on renaming!

However, I saw the Auto-targeting Missiles and then immediately jumped to thinking they were going to get iterated on. Then I was slightly let down.

wah wah

Yay, nice changes!

Could you please spare some time to fix the name on Sensor Damps?!

Dampening = getting something wet. (unless a SD is some sort of zero-G space watergun that aims for sensor arrays, I don't think this is what you mean the module to be named).


Damping = reducing effects.

Pretty please update this!

Just checked can add ca-1 and ca-2 to market quickbar but not on market please fix this

Yay, nice changes!

Could you please spare some time to fix the name on Sensor Damps?!

Dampening = getting something wet. (unless a SD is some sort of zero-G space watergun that aims for sensor arrays, I don't think this is what you mean the module to be named).


Damping = reducing effects.

Pretty please update this!

I'm still gonna call them FoFs, so take that CCP!

STOP RENAMING STUFF!. what was wrong with it being called Friend or Foe? jesus christ does everything have to be dumbed down and made ambiguous? it used to be if you named something by just scourged you just told the person what sized missile and what type of damage, now it could be a any of a dozen missiles. HAMS need to stay hams because they were the counterpart to heavy missiles.

on the plus side the implants did need a massive reorganization and thank you for that.

You're welcome. :)

I will admit one of the talking points was no one wants to call them AM Drakes instead of HAM Drakes. Ham is just so tasty.

FIRST! BWAHAHAHAHA! First on my first dev blog! SO MUCH FUN! :D

Google says:
dampeningpresent participle of damp-+en (Verb)
Verb

1. Make slightly wet: "the fine rain dampened her face".
2. Make less strong or intense: "nothing could dampen her enthusiasm".

Obviously, CCP is going with the 2nd definition.

Those are some nice changes.

Now if only my OCD could get over this =\

Yes, it is an arrow, it is off-center

Well technically friend or foe, wasn't always a fat lol, trust me i had a FOF at one day way back when i started that hit a friend in highsec got concorded was quite funny, but ya it shoots foes or friends, so auto-targeting seems wiser, especially since the launchers are already changed.

I think you just made up yout #tweetfleet graph
http://analytics.topsy.com/?q=%23tweetfleet

Hi CCP FoxFour, welcome to CCP and the greater EvE community. Hope you like your new job and wish you long years and tons of fun doing it. Also, thank you for fixing all the inconsistent missile names, those really should not have been left behind. As for renaming the F.O.F missiles to Auto Targeting, I do understand that the naming convention would make things easier for new players but I do hope you will remember us bitter old Killboard admins who have to put up with broken killmails for weeks before a DB update is pushed out. Now, the F.O.F missiles are rarely used so its no big deal but any time a popular item undergoes a name change a lot of KB admins begin to cry. So next time please think of that under-appreciated group. Thanks.

No, the chart is supposed to show discussions of "graphs" on #tweetfleet over time, not use of #tweetfleet over time.

Also, the pedantic computer scientist in me cringes at the conflation of "chart" and "graph", but otherwise nice changes!

I think you just made up yout #tweetfleet graph
http://analytics.topsy.com/?q=%23tweetfleet

Are the genolution CA-1 and CA-2 being seeded now? Or are they still rare gift items from a while ago?

Second best devblog graph ever! \o/

Dampening = getting something wet. (unless a SD is some sort of zero-G space watergun that aims for sensor arrays, I don't think this is what you mean the module to be named).

So mr Foxfour.

Any success at directing your attention/OCD at the build quota window?.
verification of it shouldnt take more than a couple of minuttes?.

Good job!

The one thing I feel the need to nitpick about is that implant names are unnecessarily long:

Inherent Implants 'Noble' Hull Upgrades HG-1001

Only the underlined part of the name actually helps us understand which implant it is (please correct if wrong). The rest is a bit too much fluff. "Roleplay" relevant info should like the manufacturer name should be in the description.

Google says:
dampeningpresent participle of damp-+en (Verb)
Verb

1. Make slightly wet: "the fine rain dampened her face".
2. Make less strong or intense: "nothing could dampen her enthusiasm".

Obviously, CCP is going with the 2nd definition.

I think there's value in the HG-1001 encoding. "HG" gives us a short, unambiguous way to refer to (or autolink) the implant without spelling it out. The "-10" tells you that it goes in implant slot 10, which is important enough that it's worth making explicit in the name.

I agree that "Inherent Implants 'Noble'" isn't adding a lot of value, and I think we can make a reasonable compromise. How about dropping "Inherent Implants" but keeping "Noble"? 'Noble' already implies the manufacturer, and the manufacturers are not particularly relevant or evocative as NPC corporations. Knowing the manufacturer doesn't even help me to guess which LP stores might carry the implant.*

We'd still have "Imperial Navy" etc. for the faction variants, as usual. I'd be perfectly happy to read:

'Noble' Hull Upgrades HG-1001
'Lancer' Large Energy Turret LE-1005
'Beancounter' Research RR-603

If nothing else, the (admittedly idiosyncratic) names help to distinguish the implants from similarly named skills.

*Feature opportunity! Add a tab to the Info window for LP items listing the corporations which carry them.

I am actually not sure what the Inherent Implants represents.

Note from someone who actually has OCD:

A chance to educate a dev: Each one of the main factions has a "biotech" company that, in the fluff, manufactures implants. These are:
- Eifyr & Co. (Minmatar Republic)
- Genolution (Jove Directorate)
- Inherent Implants (Amarr Empire)
- Poteque Pharmaceuticals (Gallente Federation)
- Zainou (Caldari State)

How come there are no numbers on the X & Y axis of the graph!!!!! What are you trying to hide from us? I smell conspiracy!
PS: When are we going to get faction Tin Foil Hats in NEX
<-------- This portrait's tin foil hat is receding

If you wanted to change it to anything then 'FoF' might be better as that is the universal short hand rather than the EVE current F.O.F. for 'Fire & Forget'

To my understanding F.O.F. meant "Friend or Foe".

I definitely like the standardization of the items (finally), but I am still a fan of FoF rather than Auto-Targeting.

My reasoning:
FoF (Friend or Foe) indicates that it will hit ANYTHING (in this case, the largest and closest target)
Auto-Targeting indicates that it will auto-acquire a target.....but the name does not suggest what it will target. Some players may think this means only enemies will be targeted in the same fashion of the Auto-Targeter module.

Exactly what we need

Stop messing around and fix the god damn ******** inventory crap mess.

We are not paying for this renaming ****

To my understanding F.O.F. meant "Friend or Foe".

I definitely like the standardization of the items (finally), but I am still a fan of FoF rather than Auto-Targeting.

My reasoning:
FoF (Friend or Foe) indicates that it will hit ANYTHING (in this case, the largest and closest target)
Auto-Targeting indicates that it will auto-acquire a target.....but the name does not suggest what it will target. Some players may think this means only enemies will be targeted in the same fashion of the Auto-Targeter module.

It is actually as follows:
HG-1001 = Short name for implant
HG-1001 = Slot number
HG-1001 = Percentage boost the implant gives

I am actually not sure what the Inherent Implants represents.

It is but the military prefer using it to stand for Fire & Forget

Due to the problems with early missiles gaining the derogatory title Friend & Foe due to their habit of targeting anything.

One early attempt to overcome the shortcomings of FoF missiles used pigeons trained to peck a dot on a screen.

Wikipedia - Project Pigeon

Anyway you can direct your attentions to the BluePrint section of the market. You guys did a re-organization of the ships and the sub categories they were in. Anyway you could extend that to the blueprints as well?

Sorry if this has been asked and answered before but I'm too lazy to read through the entire thread.
Will the following implants be renamed accordingly ?

Zainou 'Snapshot' FOF Explosion Radius FR-100x -> Zainou 'Snapshot' Auto-Targeting Explosion Radius ATR-100x
Zainou 'Snapshot' Assault Missiles AM-70x -> Zainou 'Snapshot' Heavy Assault Missiles HAM-70x


On the F.O.F definition related post, F.O.F stands indeed for 'Friend or Foe'.

To my understanding F.O.F. meant "Friend or Foe".
(...)
Huh, I thought that FoF could discriminate friends from foes... didn't knew they just slammed into whatever.

"I made another change as well. When we renamed the category F.O.F. Missiles to Auto-Targeting Missiles the missiles themselves stayed as F.O.F. and so did the skill. I have gone through updated all the auto-targeting missiles to have a matching name scheme along with the blueprints and the skill."

Was this something that was implemented today after DT, or in the near future? (It was unclear in the Blog, and implies that it has already been implemented...)

I ask this only because, well... have a look:

The image I'm linking here is an F.O.F. Missile example of what I'm still seeing in game (19 hours after your Dev Blog):

- our Market BPO collection
- the actual BPO Info itself
- the listing of the BPO in the Market View
- and the Market View of the actual F.O.F.

[ FOF image ]

It is but the military prefer using it to stand for Fire & Forget

Due to the problems with early missiles gaining the derogatory title Friend & Foe due to their habit of targeting anything.

One early attempt to overcome the shortcomings of FoF missiles used pigeons trained to peck a dot on a screen.

Wikipedia - Project Pigeon

Changes are not yet on SiSi. Probably will be avail on the next patch release.

Correction: F.O.F fix is not on SiSi.

While you're renaming things, please look at rigs. They are a jumbled mess when sorted alphabetically, would like to see the names lead off with a Group classification word.

(something like this)
Medium Armor: Anti-EM Pump I
Medium Armor: Aux Nano Pump I
Medium Astronautic: Aux Thrusters I

Re: Blueprints on market

The categories aren't quite right...

Can you elaborate on this a bit? Rigs on the market currently look like:

Ship Modifications -> Rigs -> Category -> Size -> Rig

The rigs themselves are sorted first by meta level ensuring the tech 2 are at the bottom and tech 1 at the top. Then they are sorted alphabetically. Are you referring to a difficulty in searching rather then just browsing the market categories?

Hi

First I will declare I am a laser user and not a Missile user!

But riddle me this?

Why change Fire & Forget one of the most commonly known military acronyms out there with a reasonable 1.4 millions hits on Google ( Fire And Forget missile) as meaning an 'Auto-Targeting' missile.

To 'Auto-Targeting' which until you decided to use it for Fire & Forget I never heard of and only has 45,700 on Google ( "Auto Targeting" missile) and the leading hits are all Egosoft's X-Universe game & non-military?

Also F.O.F. uses far less screen space than 'Auto-Targeting' even your example picture has the 'Auto Targeting' missile names running off the screen. so if users want to see the full name they will need to increase the name column width.

If you wanted to change it to anything then 'FoF' might be better as that is the universal short hand rather than the EVE current F.O.F. for 'Fire & Forget'

The whole thing with Assault Missiles vs. Heavy Assault Missiles is that the skills are now called "Assault Missiles" and "Assault Missile Specialization" as opposed to the former "Heavy Assault Missiles" and "Heavy Assault Missiles Specialization". So by changing Assault Missiles back to Heavy Assault Missiles, things have gotten mismatched again. I appreciate you were trying to make the ammo match the launcher, but you need to look at which is using the name of the associated skill.

Feedback from the community and internally has said that when hunting for implants the first thing most do is think of a category (Armor), fill that, and then fill their remaining implant slots after that by going to the next category they want. Instead of trying to explain what this means in words, here is a picture.
*
That is not all though. No no no. We had this issue of some implants displaying their bonus in the description, some not. Those that did display their bonus in the description all did it in varying ways. Fixed. All hardwiring implants should now have the same formatting for their descriptions.

The whole thing with Assault Missiles vs. Heavy Assault Missiles is that the skills are now called "Assault Missiles" and "Assault Missile Specialization" as opposed to the former "Heavy Assault Missiles" and "Heavy Assault Missiles Specialization". So by changing Assault Missiles back to Heavy Assault Missiles, things have gotten mismatched again. I appreciate you were trying to make the ammo match the launcher, but you need to look at which is using the name of the associated skill.

Okay, I would have preferred the Assault Missile name (for both the missiles and the launchers) instead of HAM, because of the HAM/Heavy confusion possibility, but just knowing that y'all thought about it carefully is a comfort.

That reminded me also that there are no Light Assault Missiles / Heavy Assault Missiles opposed to Light Missiles / Heavy Missiles to justify the renaming of the Assault Missiles back to Heavy Assault Missiles. Although HAM sounds better than AM.

Edit: Now if you plan to give us Light Assault Launchers that fit Light Assault Missiles on Light Assault Ships (Frigates) that would justify the renaming (again).

I really wouldn't want to be in your shoes right now.

Unfortunately that is not my area so I cannot comment on it. :(

What one is number one? I need to know what the bar is set at so I can beat it.

It is actually as follows:
HG-1001 = Short name for implant
HG-1001 = Slot number
HG-1001 = Percentage boost the implant gives

I am actually not sure what the Inherent Implants represents.

CCP FoxFour, I am currently drinking The Glenrothes Vintage 1988 Whisky. Do you think this is a good choice tonight? Also, what frigate would go best with this particular whisky for solo PvP in low-sec?

\0/ dev blog after 2 week dry spell.

Any news on WIS?

Inherent Implants'Noble' Hull upgrades HG-1004
4% bonus to armor hitpoints

I really think that should read "Armor upgrades HG-1004" as it has nothing to do with hull (in Eve sense)

YES PLEASEEEEE FIX THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm so sick of explaining this sh*t to newer players.

Thanks for the devblog and cleaning things up!

Way back when the first wave of renaming happened, somethings were cool and somethings not so cool. Like renaming all of the implant sets to be functional indicators of their USE. Searching for EE-04 is perfect. Some renaming of things are the community has not been so forgiving over, such as adding "Prototype", "Experimental" to all of the meta 1-4 modules.

Can you elaborate on this a bit? Rigs on the market currently look like:

Ship Modifications -> Rigs -> Category -> Size -> Rig

The rigs themselves are sorted first by meta level ensuring the tech 2 are at the bottom and tech 1 at the top. Then they are sorted alphabetically.

Are you referring to a difficulty in searching rather then just browsing the market categories?

Inherent Implants'Noble' Hull upgrades HG-1004
4% bonus to armor hitpoints

I really think that should read "Armor upgrades HG-1004" as it has nothing to do with hull (in Eve sense)

But but... all my hard work :'(

I shall look into this. :)

You can have my precious FoFs when you pry them from my Cold, Dead Tengu.

*Jenn starts organization called NFA (National FoF Association) and hires the Ghost of Charleton Heston to be spokesman*.

What's the definition of "content" in "content designer"?

Huh, I thought that FoF could discriminate friends from foes... didn't knew they just slammed into whatever.

lol ouch i guess they should have gone with FAF: Fire and Forget

Except that the "Hull Upgrades" skill gives you +5% Armor Hitpoints per level. I've always thought it as somewhat confusing since Hull =/= Armor in EVE.

I shall look into this. :)

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Please release a SQL database dump BEFORE releasing this patch.
Please release a SQL database dump BEFORE releasing this patch.
Please release a SQL database dump BEFORE releasing this patch.
Please release a SQL database dump BEFORE releasing this patch.
Please release a SQL database dump BEFORE releasing this patch.
Please release a SQL database dump BEFORE releasing this patch.
Please release a SQL database dump BEFORE releasing this patch.
Please release a SQL database dump BEFORE releasing this patch.
Please release a SQL database dump BEFORE releasing this patch.
Please release a SQL database dump BEFORE releasing this patch.
Please release a SQL database dump BEFORE releasing this patch.
Please release a SQL database dump BEFORE releasing this patch.
Please release a SQL database dump BEFORE releasing this patch.
Please release a SQL database dump BEFORE releasing this patch.
Please release a SQL database dump BEFORE releasing this patch.
Please release a SQL database dump BEFORE releasing this patch.
Please release a SQL database dump BEFORE releasing this patch.
Please release a SQL database dump BEFORE releasing this patch.
Please release a SQL database dump BEFORE releasing this patch.
Please release a SQL database dump BEFORE releasing this patch.
Please release a SQL database dump BEFORE releasing this patch.
Please release a SQL database dump BEFORE releasing this patch.
Please release a SQL database dump BEFORE releasing this patch.
Please release a SQL database dump BEFORE releasing this patch.
Please release a SQL database dump BEFORE releasing this patch.
Please release a SQL database dump BEFORE releasing this patch.
Please release a SQL database dump BEFORE releasing this patch.
Please release a SQL database dump BEFORE releasing this patch.
Please release a SQL database dump BEFORE releasing this patch.
Please release a SQL database dump BEFORE releasing this patch.
Please release a SQL database dump BEFORE releasing this patch.
Please release a SQL database dump BEFORE releasing this patch.
Please release a SQL database dump BEFORE releasing this patch.
Please release a SQL database dump BEFORE releasing this patch.
Please release a SQL database dump BEFORE releasing this patch.
Please release a SQL database dump BEFORE releasing this patch.
Please release a SQL database dump BEFORE releasing this patch.
Please release a SQL database dump BEFORE releasing this patch.
Please release a SQL database dump BEFORE releasing this patch.
Please release a SQL database dump BEFORE releasing this patch.
Please release a SQL database dump BEFORE releasing this patch.
Please release a SQL database dump BEFORE releasing this patch.
Please release a SQL database dump BEFORE releasing this patch.
Please release a SQL database dump BEFORE releasing this patch.
Please release a SQL database dump BEFORE releasing this patch.
Please release a SQL database dump BEFORE releasing this patch.
Please release a SQL database dump BEFORE releasing this patch.
Please release a SQL database dump BEFORE releasing this patch.
Please release a SQL database dump BEFORE releasing this patch.
Please release a SQL database dump BEFORE releasing this patch.
Please release a SQL database dump BEFORE releasing this patch.
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Please release a SQL database dump BEFORE releasing this patch.

Why??? Why??? Why CCP so much loving That_strange_very_very_long_names_for_every_thing_in_the_game?
Why you think "Auto-targeting" is better than "FoF"???

"Blood Raiders" is written as "bloodraider" in the Talisman implants' description. My OCD feels this should be brought to the attention of CCP FoxFour's OCD.

Also, that's one sexy graph.

I always thought that FOF missiles was supposed to be one of the effective counters to ECM, but sadly they are rather underpowered & ineffective rendering them some what useless.

I'd like to point out something that I'm surprised hasn't bothered anyone else to my knowledge: Heavy Neutron Blaster is a medium gun while Neutron Blaster is a large gun...

Am I the only one who sees that as being backwards?

I'd like to point out something that I'm surprised hasn't bothered anyone else to my knowledge: Heavy Neutron Blaster is a medium gun while Neutron Blaster is a large gun...

Am I the only one who sees that as being backwards?

Yes, but this is a dangerous topic to bring up as CCP will come up with yet another naming scheme that makes just as little sense.

Sometimes, the quirks of EVE are OK to leave in-place.

Widow still says to have a bonus to Siege and Cruise missile launchers.

I changed FOF and Assault missiles, didn't touch Torpedoes or Cruise missiles, or their launchers. Is that not the bonus the Widow gives?

Yes, I just double checked, Widow' and Scorpion Navy Issue' descriptions refers to siege launchers, while ingame said launchers named as Torpedo.

Ah yes I see what you mean. Siege launchers no longer exists. Can you do me a favor and bug report it in-game. Feel free to mention me in it and I will try and get it fixed ASAP. Thank you very much for pointing that out.

Sure. BR ID 143335

Continuing on this. Bugreport 143338. Regarding Lachesis bonus. Put your name in the description FoxFour

Yup, that would also be a bug. Fixing fixing fixing. Well, as soon as I get a few spare minutes. Thank you very much for bringing these up.

You're doing this to me on purpose aren't you. I see what you are doing. Thing is it is working. :(

I have updated the bug report you sent me with that information. Will get it all done at the same time.

Honestly, if you gave me the formatting rules you are using on the ship info pages, I would fix them all myself (I seriously would) to look like the new tier 3 battlecruiser standard with clear and separated bonuses.

And they soon will... :P

And they soon will... :P