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Lord TGR Minmatar Bat Country Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2010.06.29 14:33:00 - [721] Originally by: Tyby Um. i was just trying to answer that question i was quoting; never said this is "the most" important part of the game, ofc it's not, but let's be honest: lag it's here and there are no signs that the servers are getting any better; I can't help but feel that you're seeing this from your perspective only. As stated previously, there are two possible scenarios which could've occurred here: Scenario 1: The ships shouldn't have be able to cyno out in the first place. Scenario 2: The ships should've been able to cyno out. In the first scenario, you lost out. Not on killing, since you did do that (as the missing modules prove, since they've got unique IDs). In the second scenario, the NC lost out, because they lost modules on their titans/SCs to the account of probably a few billion isk. Didn't they get a ship stolen too? I don't know which should be the scenario to go by for this particular situation, but it doesn't really matter. The NC has (I believe) more than enough supercaps to replace those that were killed in that fight, so they would likely not have noticed much if they were removed. Nor would anyone else notice much, except by having the bragging rights of saying "we killed x titans and they stayed dead". Originally by: Le Cardinal I do agree that the performance of the servers are the most important problem here, but that doesnt take away the fact that those ships died in combat, and that CCP stated that they do not reimburse ships lost in such fights. I do find it funny that lots of people keep saying "The performance of the servers is the most important problem", and then go on and on about how the ships were demonstrably killed and "shouldn't be reimbursed". I'm pretty certain that if the NC had gone the popular route and selfdestructed those ships, almost all of you clamoring for their destruction (while saying the server performance problem is important) would quite simply fade away, rubbing your hands in glee over how you've "showed the NC what's what", until the next time there's a huge cap fight and someone else loses ships (and probably saves some in the same manner the NC did), instead of keeping pressure on CCP. Originally by: Le Cardinal If this is a change of policy or favourism i dont know, but either way they should reimburse all ship lost under similiar circumstances. H-W anyone? People can squabble all they want about different situations and different problems. But it all comes down to this: The servers dont perform as they should and if NC gets their ships reimbursed because of it, then so should everyone else. End of story. Rest is just attempts to twist the truth to justify all this. So ccp should make up their mind on this matter. Either reimburse ALL ships that have been lost due to servers, or none. Fair or not fair. It affects us all. They've been killed "in combat", yes. There are killmails to that effect, but the circumstances around those deaths have been disputed heavily. I'm not going to reiterate this too heavily this time around, apart from saying that if scenario 1 is the case, then the ships should never have been able to "materialize" in the destination system in the first place, and there's a huge problem. If scenario 2 is the case, then the source system didn't recognize (in time) that the ships had indeed cynoed out, and there's a huge problem. As far as the reimbursement bit goes, I believe GMs have clearly said that they did not reimburse them, and I'm inclined to believe that bit simply because of where the ships ended up after DT (that, and the fact it happened to PL a few months back). And yes, the servers aren't performing as they should, but the end result (as far as I see it, anyway) isn't one of "the NC getting their ships reimbursed", but "the servers don't knowing what the ** kind of state the ships are supposed to be in in that specific corner case, so we end up with the cluster** we have now.
Tyby Gallente KANTAI HIKAGE White Noise.	Posted - 2010.06.29 15:16:00 - [722] Edited by: Tyby on 29/06/2010 15:18:10 Quote: As far as the reimbursement bit goes, I believe GMs have clearly said that they did not reimburse them, and I'm inclined to believe that bit simply because of where the ships ended up after DT (that, and the fact it happened to PL a few months back). maybe they didn't, but it's gm duty to watch over server and if something weird(yea "more weird" then usuall weird ) happens(missing items/sp, deleted contracts)...,it's theyr job to take care of those problems. like they did in PL case. doing nothing,not even for the time of the investigation, it's more like " going towards reimbursement" to allot of players. right now,i think most of the ppl are ****ed about the lack of the ccp updates; two weeks later, we don't know nothing. it's not like it's the first time when this "feature" it's happening, so they should be able to "investigate" this case in just few days. so then, why it's been 2 weeks with no updates? is this not important and it's adresed like just an usual "lost ship petition"? or there is something else going on? or it's just me being paranoid?
Kushmir Amarr GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2010.06.29 15:29:00 - [723] Originally by: Tyby it's theyr job to take care of those problems. like they did in PL case. CCP didn't do anything in the PL situation, what makes you think they would do something here?
Tyby Gallente KANTAI HIKAGE White Noise.	Posted - 2010.06.29 15:35:00 - [724] Originally by: Kushmir Originally by: Tyby it's theyr job to take care of those problems. like they did in PL case. CCP didn't do anything in the PL situation, what makes you think they would do something here? i'm pretty sure someone from pl posted somewhere about gms destroing those "resurrected" ships; if not, my bad
Dogs Breath Caldari Domination.	Posted - 2010.06.29 15:36:00 - [725] Originally by: Kushmir Originally by: Tyby it's theyr job to take care of those problems. like they did in PL case. CCP didn't do anything in the PL situation, what makes you think they would do something here? As they have done it before. What makes you think they won't? ----------------------------- R&D Agent Guide
Le Cardinal Caldari Destructive Influence IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.06.29 15:39:00 - [726] Originally by: Kushmir CCP didn't reimburse any ships you moron. Kushmir Amarr Goonswarm
David Goodwill Caldari DarkStar 1 Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2010.06.29 18:31:00 - [727] Considering DICE are regarded to be one of the most racist corps in eve I don't really see what you are getting at. Especially since you are replying to a well written and thought out stance with a meme.
Fred0 Caldari Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2010.06.29 20:43:00 - [728] It's becoming pretty clear CCP won't do ****. The ships jumped out. The first bug is that they respawned in 6NJ after logging off. That's when WN and CO killed them. The second bug is that they were found floating post DT the following day in their jump out system. We recollected them and gave them back to the char that had jumped it out. CCP are looking increasingly likely to just follow their non-interference policy of whatever happens in large lag fights happens and they don't change that. Not the solution I had hoped for, someone with enough energy should certainly make a push to make them realise their folly of 0.0 large fights policy. --- "Cutting Edge 4 Life"
Mirrabela Amarr Octavian Vanguard RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2010.06.29 21:16:00 - [729] To me it seems things are only getting worse with every patch/expansion. During the last month I've experienced something new. A few months ago we've crashed the node with about 30 ppl jumping into a 0.0 system but this time is unbelievable. About 4-5 in the past month, while scouting the systems in tenal/venal i had traffic control with only me in system. I don't know if the node is per constellation but, since i was scouting the systems, I'm pretty sure i was alone in the constellation. I dont't know if other have experienced it but this started to happened for me only in the past month. I wonder what new feature CCP introduces next :P
Scheulagh Santorine Gallente Best Path Inc. Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2010.06.29 22:24:00 - [730] Originally by: Botia Macracantha I can't believe that CCP aren't putting effort into identifying the duff coding or whatever, but I can believe they might be reaching unpalatable (for them) conclusions over the fixes needed i.e. some or all recent feature additions would have to be removed. And since planet facilities have spread like a disease, I doubt that this will be sacrificed (for example). This, to me, explains CCP silence on this issue more clearly than the 20+ pages of rage and counter rage. I am approaching my 7th year in the game, and sure, I have whinged a bit at changes over the years, but the extent that CCP seem unable to prioritise large scale PVP is now a serious concern for me. The recent promotional efforts are all geared towards showing a mode of gameplay that the game can no longer sustain. And yet, by not being seen to address the deficiencies in large scale combat, perhaps CCP are admitting this area of the game is unimportant to them from a revenue standpoint. Videos of rock munchers, level 4 hisec mission runners, and Jita 4-4 station market screen might be a more honest view of the current game. Someone's St. Bernard has taken a dump in the sandbox, and is doing a poor job of burying it. Some reasonable points here. It is clear that CCP's vision of what the game should be, has exceeded their ability to execute on that vision.

Lord TGR Minmatar Bat Country Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2010.06.29 22:45:00 - [731] I'm just going to put this in here to point out just how awesome they've been at QA the past year: http://bl3h-united.com/?a=kill_related&adjacent&kll_id=177667 For when this link is removed, it's a killmail link for bl3h-united for rancer. We're looking at tons of orcas, freighters, freighters etc etc etc etc (192 killed so far when I looked at it last time). And why? **ed up autopilot. Seriously, CCP, un- your head and ing do some QA. This is getting **ing ridiculous.
Metal Dude Gallente Destructive Influence IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.06.30 04:12:00 - [732] Originally by: David Goodwill Considering DICE are regarded to be one of the most racist corps in eve I don't really see what you are getting at. A goon calling some racist. Are you fkn kidding me or what? The truth will set you free
Lord TGR Minmatar Bat Country Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2010.06.30 07:12:00 - [733] Originally by: Metal Dude A goon calling some racist. Are you fkn kidding me or what? Productive, and relevant.
Soldur Caldari Helljumpers Dead Terrorists	Posted - 2010.06.30 17:05:00 - [734] Originally by: David Goodwill Considering DICE are regarded to be one of the most racist corps in eve I don't really see what you are getting at. I would say spend some time in Helljumpers and see if you still agree with this statement.
pedros Minmatar Gaia Freelancers	Posted - 2010.06.30 17:47:00 - [735] Originally by: Hyzenthlay Yarrow Originally by: Marlona Sky I just want some answers. But please alt, keep saying every response I do is mad or emo or bitter or whatever makes you happy. Calm down, you're going to give yourself skin failure. im sorry to say but this is Band of devloopers ah wait Best Friends of DevlopperS ? is this game now big cheat ? end transmission
Le Cardinal Caldari Destructive Influence IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.01 06:59:00 - [736] Originally by: David Goodwill Considering DICE are regarded to be one of the most racist corps in eve I don't really see what you are getting at. Especially since you are replying to a well written and thought out stance with a meme. If calling Goons ***gots is being racist then guilty of charge. Other than that i think you should take a real deep look at what corp/alliance you come from because you are in no position of accusing others for being racists. Glasshouse and all that jazz. And for the record, never heard anyone mention anything racist in corp.. everything else, but no racism.
PCaBoo Caldari No.Mercy	Posted - 2010.07.01 20:50:00 - [737] Still nothing, eh? =[ ________________________________ Stop nerfing everything!
Lord TGR Minmatar Bat Country Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2010.07.02 10:02:00 - [738] Nothing here but us chickens.
Mecinia Lua Minmatar Galactic Express Primary.	Posted - 2010.07.02 10:08:00 - [739] There will never be a report back. They do this on every major issue. They put up a vague semi smokescreen post. Promise to look into it and get back to us. I've never seen them once return and actually fill us in on any such topic. Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts. Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. -Mitnal
Thorir Gallente Task Force Zener Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.02 14:57:00 - [740] CCP Any news from this "investigation" ?


GM Grimmi Gallente Game Masters C C P Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.02 15:04:00 - [741] Here is an update regarding events which occurred during a large fleet engagement in 6NJ8-V which took place on June 16th. Some ships were destroyed during the engagement, yet they also managed to jump to safety. This resulted in the ships reappearing in-game some time after they were destroyed. Our server-side logs represent both of the aforementioned circumstances and the final outcome was that the ships remained in game with the modules which were destroyed along with them despite kill reports being sent out showing their destruction. Modules moved to wrecks upon the ships' destruction were not duplicated, and the owners of the ships received insurance payouts for the losses. No game masters or CCP staff for that matter were involved with the revival of the ships in any way. The underlying issue has been examined and improvements implemented that should prevent similar situations in the future. Regarding fleet-battle reimbursement and GM intervention in them in general, we have been down that road before and it's not the way to go. This has been discussed in much detail and the consensus is that it is best to simply stay well clear of messing with fleet-battles; this fleet engagement is no exception and we will remain consistent in this stance. We will not be passing judgment on what should have happened during this battle nor alter the outcome in any way. GM Grimmi Lead Game Master EVE CSS

Blazde Minmatar 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.07.02 15:13:00 - [742] Originally by: GM Grimmi Regarding fleet-battle reimbursement and GM intervention in them in general, we have been down that road before and it's not the way to go. This has been discussed in much detail and the consensus is that it is best to simply stay well clear of messing with fleet-battles It may have been discussed within the GM dept in much detail, but you don't appear to have consulted the players / CSM at all about it. You guys obviously have an ulterior motive in not intervening because it's a lot of effort to sort through the mess when we have these node splurges. But as you're supposed to be providing Customer Support don't you think it would be a good idea to see what your customers would prefer? _ Northern Coalition - Best friends forever <3
Chaosmancer Caldari Sons Of 0din Cult of War	Posted - 2010.07.02 15:18:00 - [743] Brace for impact
PCaBoo Caldari No.Mercy	Posted - 2010.07.02 15:29:00 - [744] Originally by: GM Grimmi Here is an update regarding events which occurred during a large fleet engagement in 6NJ8-V which took place on June 16th. Some ships were destroyed during the engagement, yet they also managed to jump to safety. This resulted in the ships reappearing in-game some time after they were destroyed. Our server-side logs represent both of the aforementioned circumstances and the final outcome was that the ships remained in game with the modules which were destroyed along with them despite kill reports being sent out showing their destruction. Modules moved to wrecks upon the ships' destruction were not duplicated, and the owners of the ships received insurance payouts for the losses. No game masters or CCP staff for that matter were involved with the revival of the ships in any way. The underlying issue has been examined and improvements implemented that should prevent similar situations in the future. Regarding fleet-battle reimbursement and GM intervention in them in general, we have been down that road before and it's not the way to go. This has been discussed in much detail and the consensus is that it is best to simply stay well clear of messing with fleet-battles; this fleet engagement is no exception and we will remain consistent in this stance. We will not be passing judgment on what should have happened during this battle nor alter the outcome in any way. It took over two weeks to come up with that? You guys need to hire someone from the NC/SC to spin for you. ________________________________ Stop nerfing everything!
Arrador Caldari Metalworks Majesta Empire	Posted - 2010.07.02 15:48:00 - [745] Threadnaught is go?
Tyby Gallente KANTAI HIKAGE White Noise.	Posted - 2010.07.02 15:53:00 - [746] Quote: The underlying issue has been examined and improvements implemented that should prevent similar situations in the future. same like first time...? Originally by: GM Grimmi Regarding fleet-battle reimbursement and GM intervention in them in general, we have been down that road before and it's not the way to go. This has been discussed in much detail and the consensus is that it is best to simply stay well clear of messing with fleet-battles; this fleet engagement is no exception and we will remain consistent in this stance. We will not be passing judgment on what should have happened during this battle nor alter the outcome in any way. the only comment i can make here is that those ships where revived long,long,long,long time after the battle ended... Also, how about insurance money? pilots that "got" theyr ships back are also keeping the insurance money?
Josiphine Noir Amarr Pelican. Veneratio Venator Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.02 16:00:00 - [747] Originally by: Tyby Quote: The underlying issue has been examined and improvements implemented that should prevent similar situations in the future. same like first time...? Originally by: GM Grimmi Regarding fleet-battle reimbursement and GM intervention in them in general, we have been down that road before and it's not the way to go. This has been discussed in much detail and the consensus is that it is best to simply stay well clear of messing with fleet-battles; this fleet engagement is no exception and we will remain consistent in this stance. We will not be passing judgment on what should have happened during this battle nor alter the outcome in any way. the only comment i can make here is that those ships where revived long,long,long,long time after the battle ended... Also, how about insurance money? pilots that "got" theyr ships back are also keeping the insurance money? He pretty much stated that they are not going to intervene in any way with what happened afterwards, the logs did show something on both ends to the effect of both things happened in that the ships were both destroyed and jumped out safely. Though I think all you care about is if the ships get to stay alive or not.
Rico Minali Gallente Sons Of 0din Cult of War	Posted - 2010.07.02 16:13:00 - [748] So when my petition for loss during a blackscreen got refused and it cost me just a few billion, that was fine to say, NO, YOU ARE JUST A CUSTOMER AND NOTHING IS WRONG WITH EVE BECAUSE GMS SAY SO. But when the loss is a massive and game altering hundreds of billions then its ok to make sure the guys who lost the ships can have them back? Is it purely because its easier to do nothing in both cases, as is what happened, my puny few billion and the massive hundreds of billions get stuck in the same response of "NO, we will do nothing." Seriously guys, your customer service needs a real looking at. I know the EULA has the get out clause of what ccp say goes, but really? Have you guys really understood what 'fit for purpose' really means and that the EULA wouldnt stand a chance in court if someone really got upset? I think its time to NOT use GMs who play eve, and look at customer service from a slightly better angle. Anyone who actually plays eve can never be impartial. Ever. Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Josiphine Noir Amarr Pelican. Veneratio Venator Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.02 16:54:00 - [749] Edited by: Josiphine Noir on 02/07/2010 16:54:25 Originally by: Rico Minali So when my petition for loss during a blackscreen got refused and it cost me just a few billion, that was fine to say, NO, YOU ARE JUST A CUSTOMER AND NOTHING IS WRONG WITH EVE BECAUSE GMS SAY SO. But when the loss is a massive and game altering hundreds of billions then its ok to make sure the guys who lost the ships can have them back? Is it purely because its easier to do nothing in both cases, as is what happened, my puny few billion and the massive hundreds of billions get stuck in the same response of "NO, we will do nothing." Seriously guys, your customer service needs a real looking at. I know the EULA has the get out clause of what ccp say goes, but really? Have you guys really understood what 'fit for purpose' really means and that the EULA wouldnt stand a chance in court if someone really got upset? I think its time to NOT use GMs who play eve, and look at customer service from a slightly better angle. Anyone who actually plays eve can never be impartial. Ever. Wow, you have your head so far up you a i'm surprised you're able to breath. 1. They did not give the NC back thier ships get that through your thick skull 2. With the rate Titans and Supercaps have been dying lately 3 Titans and a few SCs is hardly what I would consider game altering losses 3. IF they did decide to take the ships away they would be villified either way so it's aloose loose situation for them 4. You know damned well you would be fighting to keep the ships if you were in the same situation, I know you wouldnt go self destruct them because it was the "fair thing to do" and if you say otherwise you are full of s*
Morvyn Caldari Destry's Lounge Important Internet Spaceship League	Posted - 2010.07.02 17:17:00 - [750] Originally by: Rico Minali Seriously guys, your customer service needs a real looking at. I know the EULA has the get out clause of what ccp say goes, but really? Have you guys really understood what 'fit for purpose' really means and that the EULA wouldnt stand a chance in court if someone really got upset? lol, internet spaceships + court Originally by: SkeDOOSH They are godless killing machines that put even grizzly bears to shame.



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