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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Jaqel Broadside
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Posted - 2010.08.09 00:35:00 -
[331]
Lol,, actually this could really be quite entertaining to see what sphere of law this would come under.
I think in reality seeing as these PLEX's have a cash value associated with them and they are traded it might even come under the FSA's remit.
Lol, imagine if CCP were put under the obligation of providing a secure and bullet proof system to allow trading of these items,,, ROFL
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Cobalt Sixty
Caldari Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2010.08.09 00:36:00 -
[332]
Edited by: Cobalt Sixty on 09/08/2010 00:38:24 Oh my gawd, the kill board comments.
This is the sort of thing ISD should write about. Let everyone see the fail after logon.
P.S. if CCP were confident enough to disappear a CSM member over an NDA violation and confidently wore the small **** storm that followed, chances are they know what they're doing regarding PLEX destruction.
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Yonos
GeoCorp. -Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2010.08.09 00:38:00 -
[333]
Confirming these spacemonkeys are just plain dumb. We war decked them a month ago (in my last corp) and they had an orca in a belt just as the timer to active war counted down. We easily ganked it with a cloaky recon and took out two of their towers.
That it was these clowns to do the new big no-no doesn't surprise me.
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Shawna Gray
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.08.09 00:48:00 -
[334]
Edited by: Shawna Gray on 09/08/2010 00:49:05
Originally by: Jaqel Broadside
Lol, imagine if CCP were put under the obligation of providing a secure and bullet proof system to allow trading of these items,,, ROFL
Its already safer than cash. You have to make a conscious effort to destroy them yourself.
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Denidil
Gallente Rape Pillage and Burn
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Posted - 2010.08.09 00:52:00 -
[335]
Edited by: Denidil on 09/08/2010 00:52:34 [redacted]
oh nevermind.. the crybabies in this thread are just too dumb to bother talking to.
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Apollo Gabriel
Domini Lex Talionis Etherium Cartel
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Posted - 2010.08.09 00:56:00 -
[336]
Originally by: WhiteSavage You people are fools. This is not life... this is a video game.
and CCP found a way to rob unlucky fools of their rl money... and they went for it.
A few people seem to have trouble wrapping their heads around these basic principles.
- We all pay CCP a set value for the promise of gametime/access per character.
- A plex is merely a virtual-ized form of this guarantee... and can be traded back in forth for ingame currency.
- Such an item, obviously... is unique and different to any other item ingame. isk - plex ratio's change constantly... but to CCP a plex is always worth a preset $.
- By allowing plex to be destroyed, CCP gains rl money. dollar for dollar. There is literally no reason for CCP to enact such a policy change... other then outright, apathetic greed.
I absolutely agree, PLEX have no in game purpose, they have no in game effect. They should NOT be in game, nor moveable, nor destroyable. I am NOT saying anything about the idiot who had them. I am saying the mechanics should NOT allow them to move around, they should NOT enter the game, they have no in game purpose. TO CCP: The implicit promise of polished quality keeps me playing through the rough times. Don't let the Trolls keep you from your goals. |
Thrasymachus TheSophist
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Posted - 2010.08.09 01:03:00 -
[337]
Originally by: Apollo Gabriel
Originally by: WhiteSavage You people are fools. This is not life... this is a video game.
and CCP found a way to rob unlucky fools of their rl money... and they went for it.
A few people seem to have trouble wrapping their heads around these basic principles.
- We all pay CCP a set value for the promise of gametime/access per character.
- A plex is merely a virtual-ized form of this guarantee... and can be traded back in forth for ingame currency.
- Such an item, obviously... is unique and different to any other item ingame. isk - plex ratio's change constantly... but to CCP a plex is always worth a preset $.
- By allowing plex to be destroyed, CCP gains rl money. dollar for dollar. There is literally no reason for CCP to enact such a policy change... other then outright, apathetic greed.
I absolutely agree, PLEX have no in game purpose, they have no in game effect. They should NOT be in game, nor moveable, nor destroyable. I am NOT saying anything about the idiot who had them. I am saying the mechanics should NOT allow them to move around, they should NOT enter the game, they have no in game purpose.
You're the ... fill in the blank. You can BUY a GTC. If you want to convert it into an "in game' asset (actually 2), known as a PLEX, then you can.
Once its a PLEX, its an in-game asset that you can put on the market, carry around, whatever.
Would you feel better if they said Dramiels could be traded in for 1 month game credit, and you could get 2 for a single GTC?
This is stupid. Get over it. PLEX is an ingame object, subject to in game actions (loss, trade, etc.). If you don't want to put your precious game time at risk, then don't convert -just cash it in for game time when you get it. Oh wait, you bought it on the market? Then how's it different from a T2 Arbie launcher?
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Ira Theos
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Posted - 2010.08.09 01:09:00 -
[338]
But never forget!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOl1LqyUL4Q
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Brannor McThife
Caldari Brotherhood of the Ancients
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Posted - 2010.08.09 01:10:00 -
[339]
Originally by: Thrasymachus TheSophist Then how's it different from a T2 Arbie launcher?
None of us can manufacture it from a BPO/BPC. No NPC sells it. No NPC carries it. I cannot get it from an LP store. There is no way for it to exist other than via (someone) purchasing it with RL cash.
Show me another item that can do that? (Without using PLEX).
Right. Time to seed PLEX BPOs/BPCs. I don't care how much they cost to make or how long, but it's a farce saying they are just like other items.
If you can trade it, it must come from in the game (Rat droppings or NPC Market in some way).
-G
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.08.09 01:45:00 -
[340]
I would still like to know this:
If I pay CCP for one month's subscription and then do absolutely nothing. No training, no ghost-datacorefarming, no active market orders, no S&Ià I don't even log in, and the only thing that happens on the account is that the character gets 30 days older. Have I then been defrauded by CCP, and should CCP be held accountable for letting this atrocity happen? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
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Nnamuachs
Caldari Kiith Paktu Hiigaran Protectorate
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Posted - 2010.08.09 01:47:00 -
[341]
Originally by: Brannor McThife
Originally by: Thrasymachus TheSophist Then how's it different from a T2 Arbie launcher?
None of us can manufacture it from a BPO/BPC. No NPC sells it. No NPC carries it. I cannot get it from an LP store. There is no way for it to exist other than via (someone) purchasing it with RL cash.
Show me another item that can do that? (Without using PLEX).
Right. Time to seed PLEX BPOs/BPCs. I don't care how much they cost to make or how long, but it's a farce saying they are just like other items.
If you can trade it, it must come from in the game (Rat droppings or NPC Market in some way).
-G
So special awarded ships, such as the primae, apotheosis, state raven etc... Can "not" be gotten via construction, lp store, npc loot drop etc.. nor can they even be purchased. Would this make said items even "more" valuable than plex as they can't be acquired through any means at all? Additionally, What about the interbus shuttle? that can only be acquired via purchase and activation of an account from the boxed set of EvE Online. Thats basically purchasing the interbus shuttle only for cash. If any of these die are they also equivocated to a real life value as they can be gotten in no other manner?
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Aiwha
Caldari 101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2010.08.09 01:54:00 -
[342]
How DARE CCP force that poor pilot to undock with plexes in his hold! The absolute GALL!
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Cap II
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.08.09 01:58:00 -
[343]
Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: Cap II
Originally by: Ranger 1
It's not destroyable if you don't undock with it. There is absolutely no reason to undock with PLEXs in your cargo...especially that many of them. For all we know he could've done that to spark this very thread.
Sure, PLEX are generated from RL cash, but people shouldn't be stupid enough to undock with a bunch of them.
Close, but not quite.
GTC's are generated from RL cash. PLEX are generated from the conscious decision to turn that GTC into two game items that are destructible and have no RL value.
CCP, could you please make it so that we cannot undock. Otherwise we might get our pixels injured.
YOU MUST PROTECT US FROM OURSELVES. WE CANNOT BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR OUR OWN BAD IN GAME DECISIONS
You are completely stupid if you actually believe this. Exchange rates are always a two way street regardless of whether or not the powers that be sanction it. Black markets are still markets and every single in game item has some sort of real world monetary value. This concept is called opportunity cost and you should look into it.
So tell me, my friend, what legal means do you employ to turn PLEX into RL currency? And if you are referring to illegal means, perhaps you should chose your words carefully.
Perhaps you really are stupid and didn't read so i'll go ahead and type it out for you again, this time with large bold text.
Exchange rates are a two way street regardless of whether or not the powers that be sanction it. Black markets are still markets, and every single in game item has some real world monetary value. The fact that you're asking me what "legal" means is utterly irrelevant. Legal issues only come into play when determining value on black market goods. Going from dollars to isk the exchange rate is currently $35 to about 600mil isk. Going from isk to dollars the current exchange rate is somewhere in the ball park of 25 to 30 dollars per billion. The difference in cost coming from the fact that isk to dollars isn't sanctioned and therefore not "legal" but this does not impact the fact that 1 billion isk is worth approx $30 US.
[yellow]Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes[ |
Bomberlocks
Minmatar CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2010.08.09 02:04:00 -
[344]
All of this bullsh*t talk about legally binding contracts etc is a waste of good ascii unless someone actually bothers to waste their time trying to get their lawyer to challenge the destructibility of PLEX. No one is going to do that from what I can see, so it'll just have to serve as an abject lesson on what not to do until the next idiot does it. And they will, because this is Eve, an intarwebs game where people like the tl;dr version of things and reading the lines of text on a dialog or doing a show info on the item is too much like hard work.
But just to throw some more gas into this fire, how does this compare with RMT, say where the RMT transaction is legal in game (can't discuss the obvious details on these forums, but it's pretty easy to imagine how it would be done)?
Hopefully, now I've mentioned RMT, they'll lock this thread.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.08.09 02:09:00 -
[345]
Oh, and btwà Originally by: Aerilis The gift card analogy looks good at first, but you missed a little tiny detail--Company X used to issue gift cards used to be indestructible and unstealable.
No. Company X's gift cards were always destructible, with a 100% certainty of success. What they did was give us a new way of destroying them that wasn't 100% infallible. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Terminal Insanity
Minmatar U-208
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Posted - 2010.08.09 02:09:00 -
[346]
OP is a ****in' moron. sorry. But nobody is forcing you to undock with PLEX.
IF YOU CHOOSE, it will still function EXACTLY the way it did before. IT IS YOUR CHOICE to remove it from the station. Do so at your own risk. Don't be ****y with CCP because you're a dolt.
~ ° ° ° ~ Non-Gameplay Enhancements! |
Brannor McThife
Caldari Brotherhood of the Ancients
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Posted - 2010.08.09 02:22:00 -
[347]
Originally by: Nnamuachs
So special awarded ships, such as the primae, apotheosis, state raven etc... Can "not" be gotten via construction, lp store, npc loot drop etc.. nor can they even be purchased. Would this make said items even "more" valuable than plex as they can't be acquired through any means at all? Additionally, What about the interbus shuttle? that can only be acquired via purchase and activation of an account from the boxed set of EvE Online. Thats basically purchasing the interbus shuttle only for cash. If any of these die are they also equivocated to a real life value as they can be gotten in no other manner?
Awesome. Was waiting for someone to bring up gift/award ships. You 2nd and 3rd word said it. Special, Awarded.
CCP claims that PLEX are not special. All the items you mentioned are special. And you are likening PLEX to them. Bingo.
Yes, those ships are traded - some people pay extreme amounts for them like the Utu that recently sold in Jita for what, around 30 Billion? However, how did they enter the game? Did a player buy them for real life cash? No.
As for the Interbus shuttle, well, like the Primae, it's a gimmick that will at some point in the future, maybe have significant value. However, you didn't actually pay for either ship. You paid for the game.
Sorry, but PLEX is still unique and not like other items. AT ships are not paid for by RL money and in essence can be seen as being awarded to those players that completed a once-a-year mission for Concorde.
I never once said they were MORE valuable. I perceive everything (else) as pure ISK and bits and bytes of data. However, PLEX is a RL commodity. Personally, I'd prefer if they never existed... they make people attach RL worth to game items, and that, put bluntly, takes the fun out of it.
Anyway. My rebuttal is that your examples are not valid. :)
-G
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GrandMaster JAX
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Posted - 2010.08.09 02:26:00 -
[348]
And CCP said: "Thou shall not undock what you cannot afford to loose", but the people didnt listen.
And CCP said again: "If you blow up a ship that happens to be carrying PLEX, it may drop the PLEX as loot or it may be destroyed in the conflagration (much like any other item in a ship's cargo hold). The refund policies for PLEX will not be any different from any other item.", but the people didnt listen at all.
Dev Blog - http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=776
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Thrasymachus TheSophist
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Posted - 2010.08.09 02:28:00 -
[349]
Brannor (and buds) - you keep sayign the same thing.
Let me ask you this - would you feel better if after buying a GTC we could EITHER conver to PLEX, or convert to ISK, or just directly buy an item off contracts?
You are teh only one making them "special". If the purchaser chooses to convert them to PLEX and then chooses to play with them "in game" (as opposed to just applying the time to their accoutns) then why do you get ****y when their in game asset goes boom?
You do realize - when you buy a GTC you can just add the time to your account, right? You don't have to turn them into an in game asset and then run around with them, right? And if you DO chooose to do that ... why? This guy had 70+ of them - this is not some nub who bought a GTC and then was like "OOPS".
Right? Bueller?
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.08.09 02:33:00 -
[350]
Edited by: Zeba on 09/08/2010 02:35:00
You getting all this down Prism X? This is some pretty informative social engineering data to be collated tbh.
I mean really, Eve Online: Serious Buisiness.
Originally by: ShadowandLight This is e x a c t l y what CCP wanted...
Indeed. Why not let the natural greedy and aggressive nature of the games playerbase make them even moar money? Kudos to the guy who implimented it tbh. Like has been repeated over and over and over there is no practical need to actually move plex from the station it originally spawned in. So if someone does try to move it and gets wtfpwnd then all they have to blame are themselves.
+$1295 usd ccp and too bad you haters are envious of ccp for actually finding even moar real life ways to profit off your endless virtual greed.
Originally by: Balsak Eve-Online, the game that is so awesome people are willing to give CCP money so that they may have the privilege to bash it.
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King Aires
Reliables Inc Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2010.08.09 02:39:00 -
[351]
Originally by: Tippia I would still like to know this:
If I pay CCP for one month's subscription and then do absolutely nothing. No training, no ghost-datacorefarming, no active market orders, no S&Ià I don't even log in, and the only thing that happens on the account is that the character gets 30 days older. Have I then been defrauded by CCP, and should CCP be held accountable for letting this atrocity happen?
Perfect, you entered into an agreement with CCP in this analogy where you paid for 30 days time, and they gave you access to the server for 30 days. This has nothing to do with CCP and their PLEX Scheme.
From the in game description: "This item extends your game time by 30 days when activated. It cannot leave stations but may be traded on the market and through contracts, except courier."
Translate that into a little common sense and you get: "This item is worth whatever you would normally pay for 30 days time" and they still haven't updated the leave stations bit.
CCP is culpable 100% for any PLEX item lost because it is the only item in the game which has a direct impact on your ability to play the game, it is the only item which directly effects them as a company, and it is the only item which can be created with cash and subsequently turned back into cash from the game.
The views expressed above are not those of my corp or an expression of where my corp stands.
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Brannor McThife
Caldari Brotherhood of the Ancients
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Posted - 2010.08.09 02:41:00 -
[352]
Originally by: Thrasymachus TheSophist Brannor (and buds) - you keep sayign the same thing.
Let me ask you this - would you feel better if after buying a GTC we could EITHER conver to PLEX, or convert to ISK, or just directly buy an item off contracts?
I don't use them, but in essence, yes, allow people to buy any ingame item directly from outside the game, with RL money, and have it spawn at their location. This is done to apply the "just like other items" that CCP claims.
Originally by: Thrasymachus TheSophist
You are teh only one making them "special". If the purchaser chooses to convert them to PLEX and then chooses to play with them "in game" (as opposed to just applying the time to their accoutns) then why do you get ****y when their in game asset goes boom?
I don't care that it went boom. What I care about is claiming it's not special. It has several properties that no other item has. Period. Don't claim it's not special when it is.
Originally by: Thrasymachus TheSophist
You do realize - when you buy a GTC you can just add the time to your account, right? You don't have to turn them into an in game asset and then run around with them, right? And if you DO chooose to do that ... why? This guy had 70+ of them - this is not some nub who bought a GTC and then was like "OOPS".
I'd be happy if:
(a) GTC could not be converted to PLEX. Thus, you buy a GTC, you use it. (b) If people wanted to buy gametime with ingame ISK, then create a T1/T2 BPO that requires special components that cost X (hell, they could be NPC seeded components) to manufacture, or why not just have PLEX as a NPC-sellable item that CCP can control the price of?
I'm not against them being blown up. I am against a claim that they're now just like any other item, they are clearly not due to their utterly unique properties.
tl;dr Remove the RL Currency to ISK link. It cheapens items in the game, and thus the game. G-A-M-E.
-G
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Jypsie
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Posted - 2010.08.09 02:42:00 -
[353]
I think slickdog just one shotted an entire alliance.
Hey Man, Nice Shot
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.08.09 02:43:00 -
[354]
Edited by: Tippia on 09/08/2010 02:45:18
Originally by: King Aires Perfect, you entered into an agreement with CCP in this analogy where you paid for 30 days time, and they gave you access to the server for 30 days. This has nothing to do with CCP and their PLEX Scheme.
But the effect is exactly the same: CCP has been given $15 "for free" and hasn't provided the service I bought. So why is this any different than if I choose not to redeem the 30 days of a PLEX?
Quote: CCP is culpable 100% for any PLEX item lost
How can they be that when 0% of the PLEXes are lost unless a player actively chooses to make it happen? Why are they culpable for my choices? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Borun Tal
Minmatar Spacepods Inc
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Posted - 2010.08.09 02:46:00 -
[355]
Sorry, but I can't get over how monumentally stupid it was to move that many PLEX the way it was done. Just stupid.
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.08.09 02:47:00 -
[356]
Edited by: Zeba on 09/08/2010 02:56:47
Originally by: Jypsie I think slickdog just one shotted an entire alliance.
Hey Man, Nice Shot
Then its an alliance in name only as 22 bil is probably sitting in one of my hangers if I arsed myself to open a random asset tab and count it all up. Real alliances deal with isk numbered in the trillions not billions.
Also: Hey man, Nice link. I love that song.
Originally by: Borun Tal Sorry, but I can't get over how monumentally stupid it was to move that many PLEX the way it was done. Just stupid.
[tinfoil]Maybe it was a ccp alt that spawned 22 billion to buy the plex then he simply waited for the wartargets to show up and undocked?[/tinfoil]
Originally by: Balsak Eve-Online, the game that is so awesome people are willing to give CCP money so that they may have the privilege to bash it.
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Saphoseraph
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Posted - 2010.08.09 03:25:00 -
[357]
Edited by: Saphoseraph on 09/08/2010 03:25:34 Imma just throw this in. eventually enuf people are gonna be dumb enuf to repeat this several times... not here to comment on the impact of that RL or ISK wise. Just wanna say, friggin put a 0.1m3 cargo bay on pod strictly for plexes ( this be directed to ccp for the slow readers). IF you're gonna keep them moveable ( dumb ). when ship pops, send them there. IF you're gonna be flying with your potential accounts future ( very dumb ) in whatever ship ( still dumb ) imo oughta at least add the trouble of needing to pod you in addition to exploiting your dumbness.
P.S: some people are dumb... P.P.S: Support the EVE Cheerleader drive!
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Barkaial Starfinder
Minmatar The Kairos Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.08.09 03:33:00 -
[358]
I just considered one thing... What if rich people decided to buy fame?
Not the good kind, but still fame...
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Frug
Omega Wing
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Posted - 2010.08.09 04:08:00 -
[359]
For all the blundering CCP does, gold like this is what makes Eve the best mmo on the market.
Awesome. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Whisper/PrismX 4 emperor |
Sobach
Fourth Circle Total Comfort
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Posted - 2010.08.09 04:59:00 -
[360]
Originally by: Brannor McThife (b) If people wanted to buy gametime with ingame ISK, then create a T1/T2 BPO that requires special components that cost X (hell, they could be NPC seeded components) to manufacture, or why not just have PLEX as a NPC-sellable item that CCP can control the price of?
Because CCP just can't wait to jump at the opportunity to let you play their games for free! Oh wait...
Having PLEX be a NPC-sold goods will net CCP exactly zero income, they might as well just go ahead and shut the game down if they're going to do that.
Originally by: Brannor McThife
tl;dr Remove the RL Currency to ISK link. It cheapens items in the game, and thus the game. G-A-M-E. -G
Whatever you may think about the whole isk/GTC thing, it's one of CCP's way to discourage buying isk from 3rd party sources, it's never gonna go away.
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