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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |

Brooks Puuntai
Nomadic Asylum Still Censored
685
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 16:10:00 -
[271] - Quote
Yes they should remove insurance after a character reaches a SP/Timeframe. Even still it's not really the same since insurance only lessens the loss it doesn't almost completely remove it. |

J'as Salarkin
Alpha Strategy In Umbra Mortis
11
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 16:19:00 -
[272] - Quote
Brooks Puuntai wrote:Yes they should remove insurance after a character reaches a SP/Timeframe. Even still it's not really the same since insurance only lessens the loss it doesn't almost completely remove it.
The loss of using the disposable clone would be not gaining as much SP while using it and not being able to use any other skill/ship enhancing implants or drugs. Its not a loss measurable in isk yes, but a loss nonetheless.
Remvoing the insurance would be interesting, might push people to use smaller, less expensive ships for PvP, but it might just reduce the amount of people risking their ships in PvP all together. There are basically two types of PvP players, the ones which can afford to lose their implants and ships and those that can not. Keeping the insurance (atleast for new players) and adding the disposable clones would get more of the second group in to PvP and if they like it they might just keep on doing it.
|

Proletariat Tingtango
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
119
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 16:34:00 -
[273] - Quote
I have a feeling everyone who wants to keep learning implants also cried and gnashed their teeth when learning skills were removed.
How about CCP just cuts the ****, lets everyone learn skills at the absolutely best possible rate, and re-appropriate stats exclusively for pvp/pve use, instead of creating a huge money/time sink for newbies. This game is already hard for new players to get into due to the fact that nearly everything fun requires at least a few months worth of SP. There's no reason to keep learning implants around unless you're one of the turds who puts the things out on the market.
It would be better for literally everyone, shaving days off of long training times and lessening the time required to get to the part of the game where you might actually have fun. |

Brooks Puuntai
Nomadic Asylum Still Censored
685
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 16:44:00 -
[274] - Quote
Sigh...
Learning skills aren't the same. Learning skills where redundant for having to train skills just to train others faster. Implants allow those who are willing to risk the isk to gain a advantage over others who choose not to.
If you don't like learning implants then don't use them and think the normal training speed is the top. |

Proletariat Tingtango
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
119
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 16:53:00 -
[275] - Quote
Uh no they're pretty much the same. The SP rate should be constant across all characters and set at at least as high as what is achievable with learning implants at this time. Deal with it. Accept you're wrong and grow from it. |

Ensign X
141
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 16:55:00 -
[276] - Quote
Proletariat Tingtango wrote:Uh no they're pretty much the same. The SP rate should be constant across all characters and set at at least as high as what is achievable with learning implants at this time. Deal with it. Accept you're wrong and grow from it.
You should call Andy back to this thread, because your "arguments" are ******* terrible. No offense, this is just me being objective. |

Brooks Puuntai
Nomadic Asylum Still Censored
686
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 17:01:00 -
[277] - Quote
With that ideology why have T2 or T3 ships. It should be consistent across the board and inline with all characters, risk and value should be equal in all respects. There should be no diversity and no way for people to use isk in order to gain an advantage.
Face it your too cheap and risk adverse to use implants, so you whine and moan when others do it and want it changed so you can have it without the risk. |

Proletariat Tingtango
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
119
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 17:02:00 -
[278] - Quote
Ensign X wrote:Proletariat Tingtango wrote:Uh no they're pretty much the same. The SP rate should be constant across all characters and set at at least as high as what is achievable with learning implants at this time. Deal with it. Accept you're wrong and grow from it. You should call Andy back to this thread, because your "arguments" are ******* terrible. No offense, this is just me being objective.
Haha you think there's some kind of posting cabal or something and I can just call the other guy back in here.
Also i dont think you know what objective means and I dont think you're actually capable of knowing when someone is arguing or just making a statement of fact. I'm not participating, I just gave a half-assed opinion, didn't read the thread, and am now saying you and people like you are really stupid and wrong and absolutely nothing you say is worth reading. |

Proletariat Tingtango
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
119
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 17:03:00 -
[279] - Quote
Brooks Puuntai wrote:With that ideology why have T2 or T3 ships. It should be consistent across the board and inline with all characters, risk and value should be equal in all respects. There should be no diversity and no way for people to use isk in order to gain an advantage.
Face it your too cheap and risk adverse to use implants, so you whine and moan when others do it and want it changed so you can have it without the risk.
That makes no sense and you're just really driving home the point that you don't know what you're talking about and you're against removing learning implants for really tenuous reasons. |

Ensign X
141
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 17:04:00 -
[280] - Quote
Proletariat Tingtango wrote:you and people like you are really stupid and wrong and absolutely nothing you say is worth reading.
Touche. Wanna hug? |

Brooks Puuntai
Nomadic Asylum Still Censored
686
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 17:26:00 -
[281] - Quote
Proletariat Tingtango wrote:Brooks Puuntai wrote:With that ideology why have T2 or T3 ships. It should be consistent across the board and inline with all characters, risk and value should be equal in all respects. There should be no diversity and no way for people to use isk in order to gain an advantage.
Face it your too cheap and risk adverse to use implants, so you whine and moan when others do it and want it changed so you can have it without the risk. That makes no sense and you're just really driving home the point that you don't know what you're talking about and you're against removing learning implants for really tenuous reasons.
You seem to think that paying for an advantage is bad. Buying implants to speed up training is no different then paying more for higher tiered mods or ships that give a better advantage. What is there not to understand. |

Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
1263
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 18:00:00 -
[282] - Quote
I can't help but laugh at those parading clone costs and learning implants as risk to pvp. The majority of players in this game live in high sec and almost all of them steer clear of pvp because of clone upgrade costs and losing learning implants. What others in this thread are trying to discuss and explain to you guys is that this should be looked at. Sure the ideas we talk about are not the best but it would mean some actual pvp happening for them. Guess how much those high sec players are risking for pvp now?
None. Who cares what ship they are flying, clone they are in or implants plugged in their head if they don't pvp at all? One ISK or a billion ISK is irrelevant if they never see combat.
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |

Paul Oliver
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
444
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 19:14:00 -
[283] - Quote
As a newbie I agree that one of the big issues holding me back from pvp combat is the expensive implants in my head. When I first started I got lucky and someone gave me a shot of isk which I went and spent on implants to train stuff faster, so now that I have them and I can see how much time they take off training long skills I feel very nervous about losing them, especially since it would near wipe me out to replace them. Thing is if they're removed it will take me that much longer to get my skills up, which means that much longer till I feel like I can confidently pvp without getting pwned right off the bat by someone else.
I've seen a lot of people say that lose is one of the attracting factors of EVE, I'm not convinced. When a newbie like myself has to spend hours grinding away to make his isk just to afford a ship and fit that the rest of the community can brush away like a flea, pvp doesn't seem all that attractive. The obvious solution of course would be to find a corporation/alliance that can fund all this, thing is despite access to a chatroom, recruitment menu, and forum I'm kind of finding it hard to find the corporation that's right for me (or doesn't just flat out assume I'm a spy). So in the mean time here I am logging on long enough to update my skill que and maybe run a boring lvl1 mission, then logging off to do something fun. Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must undergo the fatigues of supporting it. |

HVAC Repairman
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
199
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 19:16:00 -
[284] - Quote
remove EVERYTHING Follow me on twitter |

HVAC Repairman
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
199
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 19:16:00 -
[285] - Quote
except ship spinning Follow me on twitter |

Too-Boku
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 19:19:00 -
[286] - Quote
Paul Oliver wrote:As a newbie I agree that one of the big issues holding me back from pvp combat is the expensive implants in my head. When I first started I got lucky and someone gave me a shot of isk which I went and spent on implants to train stuff faster, so now that I have them and I can see how much time they take off training long skills I feel very nervous about losing them, especially since it would near wipe me out to replace them. Thing is if they're removed it will take me that much longer to get my skills up, which means that much longer till I feel like I can confidently pvp without getting pwned right off the bat by someone else.
I've seen a lot of people say that lose is one of the attracting factors of EVE, I'm not convinced. When a newbie like myself has to spend hours grinding away to make his isk just to afford a ship and fit that the rest of the community can brush away like a flea, pvp doesn't seem all that attractive. The obvious solution of course would be to find a corporation/alliance that can fund all this, thing is despite access to a chatroom, recruitment menu, and forum I'm kind of finding it hard to find the corporation that's right for me (or doesn't just flat out assume I'm a spy). So in the mean time here I am logging on long enough to update my skill que and maybe run a boring lvl1 mission, then logging off to do something fun.
Look with your eyes and hear with your ears CCP. New guys are afraid to pvp because they might lose their learning implants.
*bold and underline mine |

Paul Oliver
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
444
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 19:23:00 -
[287] - Quote
Too-Boku wrote:Look with your eyes and hear with your ears CCP. New guys are afraid to pvp because they might lose their learning implants. It's true. Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must undergo the fatigues of supporting it. |

Lord Zim
1201
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 20:21:00 -
[288] - Quote
Ensign X wrote:Do you fly around in ships that you can't afford to lose? Can you refit the ship you own so you won't run around with these officer mods you bling it up with? Can you easily change ships for a cheaper one if you know you're about to experience PVP?
Can you do the same thing to your head? No? So you can't mitigate the loss, except for waiting for the JC cooldown, which means that some people will go "meh I don't want to PVP with these implants" and log off instead. Which, incidentally, is the premise for this whole thing, a reduction in potential PVP. |

Ensign X
141
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 20:38:00 -
[289] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Ensign X wrote:Do you fly around in ships that you can't afford to lose? Can you refit the ship you own so you won't run around with these officer mods you bling it up with? Can you easily change ships for a cheaper one if you know you're about to experience PVP?
So, we're in agreement. Don't fly what you can't afford to lose.
Therefore, don't PVP in a Jump clone that you can't afford to replace.
You've done a big thing today by agreeing with what is right and I commend you.
|

Ensign X
141
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 20:39:00 -
[290] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Can you do the same thing to your head? No? So you can't mitigate the loss, except for waiting for the JC cooldown, which means that some people will go "meh I don't want to PVP with these implants" and log off instead. Which, incidentally, is the premise for this whole thing, a reduction in potential PVP.
Again, you're in agreement that the problem is jump clone cooldowns and not implants. I don't know why that conclusion was so hard to come by. |

Lord Zim
1201
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 20:45:00 -
[291] - Quote
Ensign X wrote:Again, you're in agreement that the problem is jump clone cooldowns Nope. Jump Clone as a mechanic for "safekeeping" implants is a horrible mechanic, no matter what you dress it up as. Either
1) Remove implants and give everyone a stats boost, or 2) Allow people to unplug learning implants (or maybe even normal implants vOv). |

Klymer
Hedion University Amarr Empire
35
|
Posted - 2012.09.01 00:48:00 -
[292] - Quote
Leave learning implants alone, they provide choice and choice is good.
Add hardwires for slots 1-5, again choice is good.
Removing the JC timer completely is a bad idea. Lowering it would probably be ok if it wasn't set too low, perhaps no less than 12 hours. A skill that reduces it would probably be the best idea if it's going to be fooled with, say 10 percent per level maybe and make it a rank 2 skill at a minimum.
Removable implants is kind of a strange idea since they are wired into the brain. Nothing is impossible though so maybe with discoveries surrounding the sleeper implants used in Dust a way is figured out to make them removable. Honestly, I don't really like the idea of them being removable though.
Changing between a jump and med clone in stations is a more interesting idea. NPC stations in high and low could offer the service either for an extra cost or based on standings or some combination, anything so long as it isn't a free service. For sov holders an upgrade could be made available and be subject to a system index requirement of some sort. Perhaps military and industry at 1 or one of them at 2 since that would indicate pilots out in the system doing stuff. SI wouldn't really be a good choice as it's basically a hurry up and wait timer. Besides, any group strong enough, or devious enough for that matter, to take and hold a station should be able to get the other indexes up quickly if they want to install upgrades.
Being able to switch between a medical clone and a jump clone in the same station could also lead to more fighting. Say alliance A has a station with the upgrades in and everyone there has a med clone and a jump clone installed. Alliance C comes along and takes sov. Before A is driven off, everyone leaves a combat ship in the station and switches to their med clone. They then change their med clone locations so all that is left in the station is their jc and a ship. Alliance C disables the medical clones for alliance A but there is nothing they can do about the jump clones. Some time later when A has regrouped, they jc back to the station and undock and take one last shot at whatever they can. Granted this type of scenario can be done now but it requires a bit of juggling with your clones and frankly, it's a pita to pull it off with large numbers. Switching between a med and jump clone in the same station would make it easier to accomplish. Going forward, sov holders would have to be more wary of who owned the area before them as you never know when a force might decide to jump in and start wreaking havoc. |

Bane Loppknow
Pel Industries
54
|
Posted - 2012.09.01 02:51:00 -
[293] - Quote
I flew my full set of +5s through null fairly often. Bitches need to man up.
Going on PvP roam: jump into an implant free clone. Carebearing it up: Stay in your implant clone, don't be an idiot.
Not hard. |

Ukonius
Social Destortion
1
|
Posted - 2012.09.01 05:07:00 -
[294] - Quote
Ivy Romanova wrote:well the thing is CCP is trying to split the gamer population.. giving it a more defined definition. High sec : Safe zone for the anti-social and timid nerds -- Maybe some ppl choose to play the way they want to, not how you think they should
Low sec : Low life that gets bullied in school and now is trying to make up for it, and incursion runners too -- Agree with you here 100%
Null sec : For the gladiators and intellectuals of the society , trying to make a name for themselves by exploring the riches of the unknown -- Get over yourself mate, keyboard commandos are a dime a dozen. Dont be a statistic !
So... EVEN if people buys your argument, the very aim of it alone would make the chances of it actually being implemented VERY slim
|

Alpheias
Euphoria Released Verge of Collapse
781
|
Posted - 2012.09.01 05:44:00 -
[295] - Quote
I use +5s in my hisec jump clone that is there for inactivity, otherwise I don't even bother with implants. Slower training speed for certain but that is irrelevant once you pass 40 million sp and haven't trained your toon like a scrublord.
As for removing learning implants - no. Just no. I'd kill kittens and puppies and bunnies I'd maim toddlers and teens and then more |

Mara Rinn
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
1800
|
Posted - 2012.09.01 05:52:00 -
[296] - Quote
Proletariat Tingtango wrote:How about CCP just cuts the ****, lets everyone learn skills at the absolutely best possible rate, and re-appropriate stats exclusively for pvp/pve use, instead of creating a huge money/time sink for newbies. This game is already hard for new players to get into due to the fact that nearly everything fun requires at least a few months worth of SP. There's no reason to keep learning implants around unless you're one of the turds who puts the things out on the market.
Why doesn't anyone suggest reducing the cost of learning implants? It's always "remove them, they're too expensive, and the fear of losing expensive stuff makes me stay away from PvP."
But then folks happily get podded in snakes, slaves, halos GǪ it seems that there is a disconnect here somewhere.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |

Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
31
|
Posted - 2012.09.01 07:36:00 -
[297] - Quote
Which all the reason anyone should need to do the exact opposite of whatever the article is suggesting.
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Sim Cognito
Ardent Spirits THORN Alliance
6
|
Posted - 2012.09.01 08:09:00 -
[298] - Quote
Remove them and increase base attributes by 5.
They're an outdated and restrictive mechanic that discourages nullsec and pvp interaction. |

Alpheias
Euphoria Released Verge of Collapse
781
|
Posted - 2012.09.01 08:35:00 -
[299] - Quote
Sim Cognito wrote:Remove them and increase base attributes by 5.
They're an outdated and restrictive mechanic that discourages nullsec and pvp interaction.
If you are too lazy to sort yourself jump clones, then the only one that impose that restriction is none other than yourself. The game does not impose any restriction on you whether you are in null or you pvp as you can do both with a head full of implants.
Nice hyperbole though. I'd kill kittens and puppies and bunnies I'd maim toddlers and teens and then more |

Lilianna Star
SAZI Enterprises The Aslyum
85
|
Posted - 2012.09.01 08:48:00 -
[300] - Quote
Attributes in general always bothered me in this game. Why are they here? Do they contribute to the game's depth in any way? No. It's just there so MOAR GRIND. |
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