I think some folk complaining about these ships being 'overpowered' are missing several very crucial points:

(1) All numbers being thrown about here assume max skills. That means Racial Cruiser V, a 21-day skill. Most folk just getting into the logistics role will not have that skill trained, likely for a very long time. So the real repping output of the tech-1 support cruisers will be lower than the theoretical maximum for most users. But tech-2 logistics cruisers always rep at their maximum potential level, give or take 5% depending on whether the pilot has Remote Repair Systems V or Shield Emissions Systems V.

(2) The tech-1 support cruisers are very fragile. They have only tech-1 resistances, and consequently have barely half the EHP and get only half the benefit of inbound reps. If they become any more fragile, they'll be so easy to destroy that they will not be viable in any real fleet.

(3) The whole point is that these ships be viable in real fleets. That means they have to be somewhat close to their tech-2 counterparts. Because we want new players to have a useful role in PvP fleets other than as fast tackle or scout for the first six months of their existence. Perhaps the self-proclaimed 'bitter vets' have forgotten just how bloody long it takes to skill up for all the nice tech-2 ships we now take for granted. A fleet of Zealots backed by Guardians will still demolish a larger fleet of Omens backed by Augurors, so have no fear -- the forces of the bitter-vets will still prevail.

(4) In EVE, capability was never supposed to scale with price. This is why a pimped Marauder is not ten times better than a battleship for missions, even if it costs ten times more.

(5) As far as cost: if you're worried about cost when flying a Logistics ship, you should not be flying a Logistics ship. Your fleet-mates did not appreciate it when you gimped your fit and reduced your repping power by fitting 'Arup' instead of 'Solace' reppers. They will not appreciate it when you get blown off the field because you're flying a fragile T1 cruiser in a fleet of AHACs or billion-ISK Tengus.

(6) The AB large-repper Scythe that outreps a Scimitar, or the AB large-repper Osprey that matches a Basilisk, are nice in theory. They still have crap tank relative to Tech-2 logistics, and crap speed. So they can't establish or maintain range, and they can't tank nearly as much damage. If your fleet cannot nuke an Osprey, it has bigger issues to worry about than that Osprey.

So on the whole, the sky is not falling, and Logistics V has not become worthless. And even if it will become useless, it's been a good run. Full disclosure: This character has Logistics V, all remote support skills at V, and has nine or so Logistics hulls sitting around ready for use.

Why not just change the range bonus to only affect Medium remote reps. Pretty much every problem solved.

Why not just change the range bonus to only affect Medium remote reps. Pretty much every problem solved.

That being said, I think that the augoror and osprey do not need the cap transfer range bonus. They should be able to reach the repairs to all fleet members, yes, but the new pilots can learn some essential maneuvering when they have to learn to stay close to their cap transfer buddy. Also, it just adds to the advantages of flying the tech 2 without reducing the viability of the tech 1 significantly.

Lastly, I'd like to see the scythe get its tracking link bonus back, and scrap the logi drone bonus. The exequror already gets a logi bonus to both types of logi drone.

Here's an idea: maybe the exequror can double as both a shield and armor repair ship, with a cap recharge bonus along with the drone bonus. Then you can fit a flight of the drones that match your highslot reps, with some backup drones to fill the rest of the bay. Then the scythe could do tracking links, remote sensor boosters, and remote ECCM. After all, sometimes the best defense is a good offense. If it had a lot of mid slots and a small sig radius, with its HP put mostly toward armor, it should work pretty well.

Exequror should get a remote hull rep bonus instead of shield, since "apparently" Gallente is supposed to hull-tank. While you're at it CCP please fix hull tanking in adition to armour tanking, us Gallente pilots need love too but dont want to pay for it

This could go well with something I've been thinking about. I've noticed pretty much every ship has exactly two skill bonuses. There are plenty of cases, however, when a third could be added without making the ship in any way overpowered. For instance, the Exequror could have both a remote armor repair and a remote hull repair bonus, along with the capacitor bonus. You could then give it its cargo bonus back. That would be 5 bonuses, and only 2 would be getting used at any point in time. It would simply increase the ship's flexibility.

you all have to remmember these ships have been balanced t2 counterparts havnt

FYI I have absolutely no intention to buff T2 logistics at any point. They're really amazingly powerful as they are and do not need any buffs.

I also agree that the Repairing/Transfer range and amount bonuses should be restricted to small/medium modules to retain the usefulness of T2 logi to experienced logi pilots.

it would be nice if the T1 logi were a little weaker at repping especially range but gave another bonus that T2's don't like tracking link bonus hull reps etc.

It's already restricted to them, just because the large modules cost so much more powergrid and CPU. These ships could fit one or two large logi modules, but you can't make a full fit with them unless your rig and low slots are pretty much just powergrid and CPU enhancers, and even then, you won't have the capacitor needed to run them properly.

No, you could easily fit 3 large shield transfers on the Osprey, and 2 large armor reppers on an Exequror.

Maybe all by themselves, but not with any decent tank. Even the large atonement ward projector requires 112tf CPU, so 3 of them costs 336. That leaves just 176.5 to fit out the rest of the ship. Say you fit 2 powergrid rigs, a cpu rig, a large shield extender, 4 shield hardeners, a damage control, and 2 capacitor power relays--you would have a mediocre tank except that you wouldn't have an afterburner. And your ship's capacitor regen would only be able to handle one of the shield transfers, and only if your hardeners were off. I don't see how that's particularly exciting, though it may be a viable fit in some cases.

And similarly with the 2 large armor reppers on the Exequror, that's only if you choose not to fit a 1600mm armor plate. And not fitting that armor plate is pretty much asking to be alpha'ed. You could fit an 800mm plate but you'd still be pretty vulnerable. Similarly, an osprey with only one large shield extender would be pretty vulnerable. So no, the large reps don't fit under normal circumstances and most people wouldn't be fitting them. There's no reason to take away the range bonus from the large reps--it's better to allow players the flexibility to test out many fits and find unique strategies.

No, you could easily fit 3 large shield transfers on the Osprey, and 2 large armor reppers on an Exequror. The fact that you can do this and rep at 90+ km means you dont need to have a big tank. Also 2 large armor reps outperforms 3 mediums and have 30km extra range-tank. You can also make them easily cap stable.

The fact that you gimp the ship to fit large modules means you know what you are doing and thus not in much danger.

To help provide some more distinction between the Support Cruisers and Logistics Cruisers we're dropping the rep amount bonus on the hulls slightly to 12.5% per level.
These changes are not in the latest Duality build yet but they'll be in the next public build after that.

Ship doesn't need any nerf and T2 versions are not buff yet.
Then all you need is more dudes in Atrons, Rifters, Condors,Slicers and yell at them "get'em nao !!!"

Of course some players are already theory crafting stuff etc but remember that final SIS whatever server version is probably not the same that will be implemented on TQ.
I'll rejoin another poster above by saying those low skill players will not bring the effectiveness of T2 logistic skilled pilots even at current state of T2 logis.

To help provide some more distinction between the Support Cruisers and Logistics Cruisers we're dropping the rep amount bonus on the hulls slightly to 12.5% per level.
These changes are not in the latest Duality build yet but they'll be in the next public build after that.

To help provide some more distinction between the Support Cruisers and Logistics Cruisers we're dropping the rep amount bonus on the hulls slightly to 12.5% per level.
These changes are not in the latest Duality build yet but they'll be in the next public build after that.

To help provide some more distinction between the Support Cruisers and Logistics Cruisers we're dropping the rep amount bonus on the hulls slightly to 12.5% per level.
These changes are not in the latest Duality build yet but they'll be in the next public build after that.

I thought the primary difference was that Logistics ships could use large reps vs the Support cruisers using only mediums?

Support cruisers can only comfortably use mediums, but creative use of larges is fine as long as there's a tradeoff involved.

Support cruisers can only comfortably use mediums, but creative use of larges is fine as long as there's a tradeoff involved.

You are right, but the people complaining about the bonuses are the ones who will have the skills and money to spend on exactly that, thus mothballing their T2's for most situations. (and this is what they are complaining about). Personally I won't be fitting large reppers as I like to have a physical tank and not just range as my only defence.

Support cruisers can only comfortably use mediums, but creative use of larges is fine as long as there's a tradeoff involved.