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[Winter] Support Cruisers

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CCP Fozzie C C P C C P Alliance 1228	Posted - 2012.09.11 12:32:00 - [1] - Quote Hello all you wonderful post-ladies and post-gentlemen out there! Got another batch of ships for your perusal. This is the first set of the tech one cruisers that we're rebalancing for the Winter. CCP Ytterbium released his newest dev blog today going over the general overviews of what we're up to with ship balancing, and this forum is the place to be for the details and discussion. These are the Support Cruisers, tech one remote repair ships designed to operate alongside or instead of the famous T2 Logistics ships. Our goal with these ships is to continue what we're starting with the Logi Frigates and provide a complete path for new players all the way into T2 Logistics ships. With the skill requirements relaxed for barges and the ORE mining frigate coming in the winter, there's no more need for racial ships with mining bonuses. These ships are distinctly weaker than their T2 versions, but they are designed to be capable in the ways that really count for participation in a mixed T1/T2 fleet. If we've done our job right then when a newer player shows up to your Armour Hac fleet saying "I've got an Augoror how can I help?" the FC will respond with "xxxxx is our logistics channel, the guys in there will get you set up with the cap chain and anchor", rather than "LOLN00B come back with a real ship". Towards this goal these ships are very close to their T2 counterparts in range, speed/agility, cap chain ability, and cap stability. They should be able to hang out with the rest of your Logi crew and do their thing at reduced effectiveness. They also rely more strongly on role bonuses than skill bonuses so that they will continue to be viable even without Cruiser 5. The downside for their cheapness and low skill requirements will mainly be rep amount (at most 2/3 of a T2 Logi), sig radius, sensor strength and ehp/resists. Just like the Logi frigate balance pass we're hitting the modules at the same time, reducing some fitting requirements on medium remote reps significantly: MetatypeNamepowercpu 0Medium Remote Armor Repair System I12020 1Medium I-ax Regenerative Projector12019 2Medium Coaxial Regenerative Projector12018 3Medium 'Arup' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction12017 4Medium 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction12016 5Medium Remote Armor Repair System II13224 7Love' Medium Remote Armor Repair system I10516 11Centum C-Type Medium Remote Armor Repair System18124 11Corelum C-Type Medium Remote Armor Repair System13224 12Centum B-Type Medium Remote Armor Repair System18724 12Corelum B-Type Medium Remote Armor Repair System13224 13Centum A-Type Medium Remote Armor Repair System19224 13Corelum A-Type Medium Remote Armor Repair System13224 0Medium Shield Transporter I4070 1Medium Asymmetric Barrier Transpositioner I4066 2Medium Murky Shield Screen Transmitter I4063 3Medium 'Atonement' Ward Projector4056 4Medium S95A Partial Shield Transporter4060 5Medium Shield Transporter II5084 11Gistum C-Type Medium Shield Transporter5084 11Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Transporter50108 12Gistum B-Type Medium Shield Transporter5084 12Pithum B-Type Medium Shield Transporter50111 13Gistum A-Type Medium Shield Transporter5084 13Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Transporter50115 Now shipstats: Augoror: Cruiser skill bonuses: 15% bonus to Remote Armor Repair amount 5% reduction in Remote Armor Repair cap use Role Bonus: 1000% bonus to the range of Remote Armor Repairers and Energy Transfers 200% bonus to Energy Transfer Array transfer amount Slot layout: 5 H (+1), 3 M (+1), 5 L, 3 turrets Fittings: 650 PWG (+175), 275 CPU (+50) Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1000(+140) / 1650(+321) / 1550(+221) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1500(+562.5) / 300s(-35s) / 5 (+2.2015) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 210(+57) / 0.68(+0.055) / 10730000 / 6.8s (+0.5) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 20(+15) / 20(+15) Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 62.5km(+20) / 385(+57) / 8(+3) Sensor strength: 14 Radar (+3) Signature radius: 90 (-20) Cargo capacity: 465 Osprey: Cruiser skill bonuses: 15% bonus to Shield Transporter boost amount 5% reduction in Shield Transporter cap use Role Bonus: 1000% bonus to the range of Shield Transporters and Energy Transfers 200% bonus to Energy Transfer Array transfer amount Slot layout: 5 H (+1), 5 M (+1), 3 L, 1 turret (-2), 2 launchers Fittings: 425 PWG (-50), 440 CPU (+165) Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1650(+477) / 1000(+24) / 1450(+356) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1375(+531.25) / 275s(-26.25s) / 5 (+2.2) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 200(+47) / 0.59(+0.085) / 11230000 / 6.2s (+0.9) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 20 / 20 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 65km(+12.5) / 350(+39) / 8(+3) Sensor strength: 16 Gravimetric (+2) Signature radius: 95 (-30) Cargo capacity: 485 Exequror: Cruiser skill bonuses: 15% bonus to Remote Armor Repair amount 5% reduction in Remote Armor Repair cap use Role Bonus: 1000% bonus to the range of Remote Armor Repairers 100% bonus to Logistic Drone (both armor and shield) rep amount Slot layout: 3 H (-1), 4 M, 6 L (+3), 3 turrets (-1) Fittings: 610 PWG (+110), 275 CPU (+25) Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1000(+101) / 1400(+227) / 1600(+506) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1375(+375) / 264s(-92.25s) / 5.2 (+2.4) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 240(+81) / 0.61 / 11020000 / 6.3s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(+10) / 50(+10) Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km(+7.5) / 365(+43) / 8(+3) Sensor strength: 15 Magnetometric (+2) Signature radius: 80 (-40) Cargo capacity: 495 (-105) Scythe: Cruiser skill bonuses: 15% bonus to Shield Transporter boost amount 5% reduction in Shield Transporter cap use Role Bonus: 1000% bonus to the range of Shield Transporters 100% bonus to Logistic Drone (both armor and shield) rep amount Slot layout: 3 H (-2), 5 M (+2), 5 L (+2), 2 turrets (-1), 1 launcher (-1) Fittings: 330 PWG (-95), 415 CPU (+190) Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1400(+424) / 1100(+1... Game Designer \| Team Game of Drones https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie

Scaugh Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 32	Posted - 2012.09.11 12:43:00 - [2] - Quote First!!!! edit: Yes I am
Guillome Renard EVE University Ivy League 14	Posted - 2012.09.11 12:45:00 - [3] - Quote While the loss of the other ship-to-ship support (tracking links) and the exeq's cargo bonus are (minorly) regrettable, I do like that the T1 boats are now proper training hulls for the T2 logistics. That's a big win. As a long-time advocate for the use of the Osprey and Exeq as T1 training logi, it's great that Amarr and Minnie pilots can get into it much more easily now. I wonder if we'll see any ships that are going to be bonused for tracking links/resebo and other such fun, ideally at low-skill requirements. Such roles are wonderful for folks who (like many of my friends) have literally no combat skills, being dedicated miners, researchers, and industrialists. I will be the first to confess that this is an infraniche need but it has allowed me to bring friends along on fleets to which they could not have contributed in any other way. (And they can still do it, just now without bonuses.)
Inepsa1987 Trojan Trolls 12	Posted - 2012.09.11 12:46:00 - [4] - Quote This is gonna be fun Spaceship Pilot.
Lord Azori Team Pizza 13	Posted - 2012.09.11 12:52:00 - [5] - Quote I like this, A LOT.
Harvey James Prospero's Sight 12	Posted - 2012.09.11 12:55:00 - [6] - Quote why does the scythe and exqueror to a lesser extent have so many lows?
Garviel Tarrant Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 45	Posted - 2012.09.11 12:56:00 - [7] - Quote Nice! Now where is my Maller? O.o
Galphii Sileo In Pacis THE SPACE P0LICE 61	Posted - 2012.09.11 12:56:00 - [8] - Quote I love reading about ship improvements like this, it makes my day People might actually use the augoror now - shocking! I think it gained the most from this update. The numbers look pretty good, I'll leave it to the math geniuses to figure out the details tho, keep 'em coming fozzie
Zarnak Wulf Imperial Outlaws 559	Posted - 2012.09.11 12:57:00 - [9] - Quote Crude math - 1000% range bonus is 60km. Daaaaamn!
Arbiter Reformed Analog Folk SRS. 52	Posted - 2012.09.11 12:59:00 - [10] - Quote Harvey James wrote: why does the scythe and exqueror to a lesser extent have so many lows? I imagine its because they are forced to use natural regen for cap also what does this mean for the Navy versions of the ships if anything?

Harvey James Prospero's Sight 12	Posted - 2012.09.11 13:03:00 - [11] - Quote Arbiter Reformed wrote: Harvey James wrote: why does the scythe and exqueror to a lesser extent have so many lows? I imagine its because they are forced to use natural regen for cap also what does this mean for the Navy versions of the ships if anything? Yes i was thinking cap relays or nano's but the T2 logi don't get so many lows or need them to be cap stable was curious as too why design a ship that needs so many cap relays too work
Gilbaron Free-Space-Ranger Ev0ke 319	Posted - 2012.09.11 13:03:00 - [12] - Quote one of the main reasons why i dont like flying logis is the absolute terrible interface. is there any chance that we will see improvements there ?
Unforgiven Storm Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 115	Posted - 2012.09.11 13:10:00 - [13] - Quote 100% bonus to Logistic Drone (both armor and shield) rep amount nobody uses drones on logistic ships in battle situations. fleets now a days are warped arround the battlefields on a nonstop basis, you put your drones out, you lose them 1 minute later... As a logistic pilot I not even put logi drones in my ship, only combat ones to try to *** on killmails, normally I lose them all 2 minutes after the battle starts... the drones are too slow to move, normally logis are at the edge of drone range 40-50 away from main fleet, what makes its operation a problem. So you have to lock someone, send the drone command to move, by the time they arrive the target is dead... unless the logi drones speed and range usability gets a huge boost I can't see mutch usage for them... Allow us to change characters of the same account without the need to logout and put the password again.**
Idrissil Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2012.09.11 13:11:00 - [14] - Quote Dronebonus is not rly cool. Flashied ****** up with them, cause they cant use them on Gates, cause sentries penetrate them easily within seconds. Whats about the faction cruisers? Are they getting new support role too?
Harvey James Prospero's Sight 12	Posted - 2012.09.11 13:14:00 - [15] - Quote im a little concerned about the speed 1500k/ms with mwd roughly if my calculations are in the right area i was hoping for closer to 2000k/ms as a benchmark for cruisers but maybe the attack cruisers will hopefully
Deena Amaj Community for Justice Resurrection by Election 33	Posted - 2012.09.11 13:18:00 - [16] - Quote This is just great - Seriously :)! For Scythe, it was damn necessary. It was half mining cruiser, half nothing. For it being some sort of Support Cruiser with Tracking Links bonuses, it simply lacked Medslots. Quote: I wonder if we'll see any ships that are going to be bonused for tracking links/resebo and other such fun, ideally at low-skill requirements. Such roles are wonderful for folks who (like many of my friends) have literally no combat skills, being dedicated miners, researchers, and industrialists. ^This. Sticking to Tracking Links topic, One may assume that Tracking Links would be more useful for people if it had a base 20km range of some sort. I must say though that I would not want Tracking Links to receive a higher range without a ship bonus, because then we would have the same effect like Painters on Drakes, where everybody just uses it as a tool just to make more dmg, rather than people who devoted themselves to flying that particular ship. I always had a stash of Scythes but never really got to use them since they only had 3 Medslots (minus one for the propulsion mod; btw, this is why I made that aux civilian medslot idea...) I would love to see another T1 ship (be it Frigate or Cruiser) that actually applies Tracking Link/Remote Sebo/Remote ECCM/etc bonuses. Or gasp Give these cruisers here a third role bonus. It would not hurt that much. With these being T1 Support Cruiser exclusives, one would really want to take them along. :> confirthisposmed I'm probably typing on a Tablet too, which means the auto-correct is silly and fixing typos is a pain. I ain't fixing them.
Bad Messenger Nasranite Watch 252	Posted - 2012.09.11 13:27:00 - [17] - Quote Zarnak Wulf wrote: Crude math - 1000% range bonus is 60km. Daaaaamn! WITH CIVILIAN REPAIRER IT IS 150km !
JetCord The Brony Herd Lost Obsession 4	Posted - 2012.09.11 13:29:00 - [18] - Quote few question that need answers 1) when will the changes occurs in test server (sisi or bucky) 2) will the support cruiser follow the T2 logi doctrine - amarr/caldari - need logi partner / gallente/minmatar - cap stable at logi 5? 3) if it does follow the same as the t2 version - the question of why scythe and exequror - has too many lows or CCP expect us to armor tank both of them. i do agree that giving drone bonus to the scythe and exeequror are wasted - most fleet are moving here and there - unless your were thinking of using them for PVE BTW love these changes and keep them rolling
Li Charen-Teng 13	Posted - 2012.09.11 13:33:00 - [19] - Quote All those newbies in huge alliances will love this. Checking EVE GATE every few minutes...
Hoarr RPS holdings 36	Posted - 2012.09.11 13:39:00 - [20] - Quote Fozzie, I think that the augeror and the osprey can too easily be gamed to be used exclusively for cap feeding right now. It looks like you can fit 2 large cap relays on them fairly easily (w/ acr and rcu) which will half rep a battleship capacitor per cycle from about 90k. I understand why you chose to use the bonus that you did to make them a viable part of a cap chain, but you might want to consider a different bonus to keep them a workable member of a cap chain while preventing that kind of abuse. As far as the drone bonus goes, maybe replacing it with a cap recharge bonus or an MWD cap reduction bonus to help them do their jobs without a cap buddy.

Marcel Devereux Aideron Robotics 148	Posted - 2012.09.11 13:51:00 - [21] - Quote While I love the focus on drones for the Exequror, is there going to be any change to the skill requirements for Repair Drones (specifically T2)? Also armor rep bots suck balls. They have to fly to the target and then wait until the end of the rep cycle before applying the reps. To put it another way if the Logi group lands 50km from the fleet (if I did may math correctly these have a max range of 60km) they to launch the drones, move them to the target for rep, and apply the rep you are looking at over 21 seconds for this to happen. Even at a range of 20km it will be over 12 seconds before the ship is repped. Thoughts?

CCP Fozzie C C P C C P Alliance 1242	Posted - 2012.09.11 13:59:00 - [22] - Quote The drones are definitely something more useful for PVE and repping i between fights. We very well could replace the drone bonus with a tracking link bonus, but we'll see. Game Designer \| Team Game of Drones https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie

Zakuak The Terrifying League Of Dog Fort Get Off My Lawn 12	Posted - 2012.09.11 14:02:00 - [23] - Quote This is awesome!
Omnathious Deninard Extrinsic Operations 86	Posted - 2012.09.11 14:03:00 - [24] - Quote Love the new exequror stats
Harvey James Prospero's Sight 12	Posted - 2012.09.11 14:03:00 - [25] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: The drones are definitely something more useful for PVE and repping i between fights. We very well could replace the drone bonus with a tracking link bonus, but we'll see. This yes although you might want to stack the mids more unless it needs so many lows for cap relays?
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 4572	Posted - 2012.09.11 14:11:00 - [26] - Quote Marcel Devereux wrote: While I love the focus on drones for the Exequror, is there going to be any change to the skill requirements for Repair Drones (specifically T2)? Also armor rep bots suck balls. They have to fly to the target and then wait until the end of the rep cycle before applying the reps. To put it another way if the Logi group lands 50km from the fleet (if I did may math correctly these have a max range of 60km) they to launch the drones, move them to the target for rep, and apply the rep you are looking at over 21 seconds for this to happen. Even at a range of 20km it will be over 12 seconds before the ship is repped. Thoughts? Armour rep bots are more useful after a fight. They're handy for Shield logis to carry for this purpose. As you say, rep bots are too slow and fragile to be useful in anything but edge-case combat scenarios (eg: carrier keeping it's cyno ship alive) Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Dagda Morr Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes 3	Posted - 2012.09.11 14:13:00 - [27] - Quote Awesome work - really like the look of these as trainer ships for newer players/cheap logis for slosh fleets.
Hans Jagerblitzen Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance 2872	Posted - 2012.09.11 14:13:00 - [28] - Quote I approve this message. Vice Secretary of the 7th Council of Stellar Management.
Omnathious Deninard Extrinsic Operations 86	Posted - 2012.09.11 14:14:00 - [29] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: The drones are definitely something more useful for PVE and repping i between fights. We very well could replace the drone bonus with a tracking link bonus, but we'll see. Why would it be better to use logi drones after the fight, when you have remore reps on your ship? i like it as is
Deerin Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy 13	Posted - 2012.09.11 14:16:00 - [30] - Quote This will need serious testing. Make them too powerful and t2 logis will be obsolote. Make them too weak and people won't fly them. Striking a balance will be hard. Good luck!



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