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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 12 post(s) |
Obsidiana
White-Noise
182
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Posted - 2012.09.12 00:12:00 -
[121] - Quote
Homogenization IGÇÖm not surprised, but this does make the game less interesting. I think there needs to be a wild card ship class. Too much structure. I cannot tell you how many different ways I used an Exequror (salvager, miner, hauler with teeth). Sadly, this is typical and has happened in the past.
Off beat, valuable bonuses let players decide what to do with them. All in all, good show, though. T1 logistic ships are needed. Mining cruisers are a relic. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
16
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Posted - 2012.09.12 00:17:00 -
[122] - Quote
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:4 rep AB Onieros are not as uncommon as above poster would lead you to believe. Still cap stable ;)
I do 4 with mwd and be cap stable with it all on. Runs on a cap booster and 2 rep rigs. |
Bouh Revetoile
Barricade.
59
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Posted - 2012.09.12 00:36:00 -
[123] - Quote
I'm Down wrote: I'm going to chalk this comment up to inexperience. There are 3 standard fits for an oneiros:
3 rep MWD 3 rep AB 4 rep empire gank
The only time a 4 rep setup is ever used is for empire short duration small fights because it's super hard to make it cap stable and fit for tank.
You are wrong.
My last alliance used a 4 rep oneiros fit, but anyway guardian were prefered, as often for 0.0 fleet duty.
The point is, you are wrong, and that's not even considering all the others advantages of the oneiros over this exequror like sensor strength, T2 resists, raw hp, targeting range, sig radius ; that is some kind of list I think... If you cannot find some use for all these things, well, just fly a T1 logi until you learn that... |
MotherMoon
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1123
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Posted - 2012.09.12 00:40:00 -
[124] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Rayner Vanguard wrote: I'm not sure if relying on drones to repair is a nice idea While, they may have their use in pve, it might be not efficient for pvp
Logi will usually be primary target, which is why they have to bounce a lot to a nearby planets to avoid targeting
The other can simply bounce and back, lock the fleetmates and start repairing again
But, the drone logi? They have to get all the drones first, bounce and back, get all of your drones, targeting, wait for the drones to arrive at their target, start repairing
The logi will have the risk of being destroyed while taking the drones
What if they just bounce off and leave the drones? The enemies can simply destroy the drones and they will do that many times until the logi doesn't have anything beside the 3 remote repair in the high slot
Do not worry, these ship don't rely on drones to repair any more than current Scimitars and Oneiros' do.
Here's an idea. Fix warp times and then give tech 1 cruiser logitisics a 50% increase to warp speed instead of drone repair amount. Giving them a role to fill. Can't heal for as much, but are able to get back into the fight faster than their bulky older sisters.
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg |
I'm Down
Macabre Votum Against ALL Authorities
65
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Posted - 2012.09.12 00:54:00 -
[125] - Quote
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:4 rep AB Onieros are not as uncommon as above poster would lead you to believe. Still cap stable ;)
They are highly rare when you consider the lack of lvl 5 logistic and repair pilots out there compared to the rest of the game. And when you consider the relative ease of getting many more logistics into a fight b/c of the skill diminishment, who the **** cares anyways.
The moment you start to go 4 repairer route, you diminish everything else the ship has to offer in combat including the EHP and resistance edges. So yeah, you can do it, but don't bullshit the thread by saying it's an advantage when you aren't conceding the tradeoffs of doing it.
This is how power creeps happen. The Exeq. caters heavily to power by numbers and replenishment by ease while being way too powerful. |
Oraac Ensor
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
43
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Posted - 2012.09.12 01:01:00 -
[126] - Quote
If the Exequror is to lose its cargo bonus what alternative will trial accounts have for hauling? |
I'm Down
Macabre Votum Against ALL Authorities
65
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Posted - 2012.09.12 01:06:00 -
[127] - Quote
Oraac Ensor wrote:If the Exequror is to lose its cargo bonus what alternative will trial accounts have for hauling?
you do see it got 3 additional low slots right? At cruiser lvl 1 post change, it's got he potential for 3232 cargo space with 6 local expanders and 3 t1 rigs. |
Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
93
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Posted - 2012.09.12 01:44:00 -
[128] - Quote
While I cannot provide an exact number I do know there are a lot of triage carrier pilots out there. And again could you show this 3 rep oneiros fit? https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1909550#post1909550 |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
548
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Posted - 2012.09.12 03:02:00 -
[129] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:While I cannot provide an exact number I do know there are a lot of triage carrier pilots out there. And again could you show this 3 rep oneiros fit?
this is the one i use
[Oneiros, New Setup 1] Damage Control II 800mm Reinforced Steel Plates II Armor Explosive Hardener II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
10MN Afterburner II ECCM - Magnetometric II ECCM - Magnetometric II Medium Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800
Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction Drone Link Augmentor I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Armor Maintenance Bot II x5
Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
93
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Posted - 2012.09.12 03:17:00 -
[130] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:While I cannot provide an exact number I do know there are a lot of triage carrier pilots out there. And again could you show this 3 rep oneiros fit? this is the one i use [Oneiros, New Setup 1] Damage Control II 800mm Reinforced Steel Plates II Armor Explosive Hardener II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II 10MN Afterburner II ECCM - Magnetometric II ECCM - Magnetometric II Medium Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800 Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction Drone Link Augmentor I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Armor Maintenance Bot II x5 Then you must be having capacitor issues because you have plenty of power grid for a 4th meta RR, but with the cap booster on there that should be OK too. And there is no shortage of CPU either, so I don't understand why only 3 RR https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1909550#post1909550 Drone Improvement Ideas |
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Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
93
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Posted - 2012.09.12 03:34:00 -
[131] - Quote
Exequror: Cruiser skill bonuses: 15% bonus to Remote Armor Repair amount 5% reduction in Remote Armor Repair cap use Role Bonus: 1000% bonus to the range of Remote Armor Repairers 100% bonus to Logistic Drone (both armor and shield) rep amount Slot layout: 3 H (-1), 4 M, 6 L (+3), 3 turrets (-1) Fittings: 610 PWG (+110), 275 CPU (+25) Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1000(+101) / 1400(+227) / 1600(+506) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1375(+375) / 264s(-92.25s) / 5.2 (+2.4) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 240(+81) / 0.61 / 11020000 / 6.3s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(+10) / 50(+10) Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km(+7.5) / 365(+43) / 8(+3) Sensor strength: 15 Magnetometric (+2) Signature radius: 80 (-40)
With the extra low slots I am looking forward to putting a t2 DDA on it and 2 sentry drones in the hold and applying some long range damage with this:-) https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1909550#post1909550 Drone Improvement Ideas |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
283
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Posted - 2012.09.12 05:45:00 -
[132] - Quote
Kind of off-topic, but since there are so many 'meh' exclamations regarding secondary bonuses on Scythe/Exequror perhaps cooking up a new eWar system is the way to go (recycle of 5-6 year old idea):
Mass Packet Ejector: By chipping off shards from a contained singularity and ejecting them through a gauss array, the relative mass of a hostile ship can be increased. Effect is temporary as the ejected mini-singularities evaporate over time. - Increases mass of target ship by XX%, that and range, fitting, etc. can be assigned as necessary. - Can be set to use cap charges as ammo (compress it to feed singularity, duh!), similar to the much loved ASB. NB: Figure that a double hit should be approx. equivalent to a 1600 plate or so.
If Scythe/Exequror are to be the faster options designed for small gang action, then the ability to slow an enemy down from afar ... all is of course moot if CCP already has a plan being worked on to re-do the eWar in Eve in which case an "old" bonus would suffice |
Iam Widdershins
Sebiestor Tribe
720
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Posted - 2012.09.12 06:50:00 -
[133] - Quote
Seems a bit strong to me, I would probably knock down the Augoror and Osprey by 1 high slot; as you have them here they can rep about eighty percent as far and eighty percent as hard as a T2 logistic, but they're still able to do it from outside midrange. Lobbying for your right to delete your signature |
Calsys
Monks of War
77
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Posted - 2012.09.12 07:09:00 -
[134] - Quote
meh
CCP what are doing? kills logy pilots and boost noobs are you really think thats a good idea?
Today's Basilisk Large ST T2 - 384 - 71,4 km Medium ST T2 - 192 - 51km
Future's Osprey Large ST T2 - 672 - 92,4 km Medium ST T2 - 336 - 66 km
oO wtf
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Nalha Saldana
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
303
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Posted - 2012.09.12 07:44:00 -
[135] - Quote
Calsys wrote:meh CCP what are you doing? kills logy pilots and boost noobs are you really think thats a good idea? Today's Basilisk Large ST T2 - 384 - 71,4 km Medium ST T2 - 192 - 51km Future's Osprey Large ST T2 - 672 - 92,4 km Medium ST T2 - 336 - 66 km oO wtf
Thats not how you compare numbers
Basi: 3 large, 1152hp/s Future Osprey: 3 medium, 1008hp/s
You made it look like the osprey will rep more which it wont but its a bit too close.. |
Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
1169
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Posted - 2012.09.12 07:48:00 -
[136] - Quote
Cool stuff, but it's still better to bring one more dps ship instead of T1 logi and put ASBs on everything.
First things first! Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |
Calsys
Monks of War
77
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Posted - 2012.09.12 07:55:00 -
[137] - Quote
Nalha Saldana wrote:
Thats not how you compare numbers
Basi: 3 large, 1152hp/s Future Osprey: 3 medium, 1008hp/s
You made it look like the osprey will rep more which it wont but its a bit too close..
what your problem to fit TWO LST meta4 ? and you got about 1300 per cycle....
ahahahaa |
Juniorama
State War Academy Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2012.09.12 08:53:00 -
[138] - Quote
Lili Lu wrote:Therefore, I think the rep drone bonus is actually about the best that can be done. Of course rep drones could use a buff to speed and durability. That might give the bonus some meaningful use. And the general drone interface needs to be simplified. Right clicking and scrolling to engage target is slower than a sinlgle click or f button for the remote reppers. The delay from the interface and the travel time is why rep drones lack favor. But if these issues can be addressed the rep drone bonus is a good secondary bonus for these 2 ships.
There already is a shortcut for drone engagement, the regular ol' "F" key; as in the one in between "D" and "G". |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
283
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Posted - 2012.09.12 09:35:00 -
[139] - Quote
Another alternative to scoffed at secondary bonuses on Scythe/Exequror:
Bonuses to remote hull repairers.
Again, ties into the concept of the Gallente/Minmatar logistics designed to support roams and/or smaller gangs. |
I'm Down
Macabre Votum Against ALL Authorities
67
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Posted - 2012.09.12 10:27:00 -
[140] - Quote
Point of the whole arguement is this:
They come out and say, oh, the ships have lower resistances.... not true on the Exeq that has an extra low and an extra rig slot.
They say it has lower sig... after bonus/pil, the Exeq is only 6 more sig.
They say it will have lower repair abilities.... but it goes to show the developers lack of knowledge of use.
And not once do they even consider the massive skill and cost withdrawl that will impact choice when considering the very diminished tradeoff.
Just move a low slot to a high slot please for the love of god on the Exeq. it's going to force it to chose between capstability and tank or power repairing and not allow it nearly as much freedom. Stop with the cookie cutter bullshit where Scythe has 3 highs, so Exeq must also. |
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Frood Frooster
EVE University Ivy League
8
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Posted - 2012.09.12 10:44:00 -
[141] - Quote
I for one would prefer skill level based bonuses over ship hull bonuses. |
Spugg Galdon
APOCALYPSE LEGION
185
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Posted - 2012.09.12 11:03:00 -
[142] - Quote
Oh lord! Iam gonna have so much fun ganking these things out and fitting XL-ASB's to them. YES!!! |
Bouh Revetoile
Barricade.
59
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Posted - 2012.09.12 11:17:00 -
[143] - Quote
I'm Down wrote:Point of the whole arguement is this:
They come out and say, oh, the ships have lower resistances.... not true on the Exeq that has an extra low and an extra rig slot.
They say it has lower sig... after bonus/pil, the Exeq is only 6 more sig.
They say it will have lower repair abilities.... but it goes to show the developers lack of knowledge of use.
And not once do they even consider the massive skill and cost withdrawl that will impact choice when considering the very diminished tradeoff.
Just move a low slot to a high slot please for the love of god on the Exeq. it's going to force it to chose between capstability and tank or power repairing and not allow it nearly as much freedom. Stop with the cookie cutter bullshit where Scythe has 3 highs, so Exeq must also. And here you kill your whole argumentation : oneiros can too get bonuses and pills ; and an exequror with pills kill the whole idea of a noob logi crowd.
And extra low+extra rig *don't* make for the resist : it's called stacking penalty, it cannot achieve the same resist of a T2 hull even with full rack of resist mods. Infact, extra low slot + rig don't even make for tank at all because of one simple thing : put an ACR on the oneiros, and it have TWICE the PG of this exequror. TWICE. Tank on these ships is not even comparable.
As for the third rig, an armor rig it will be most of time, reducing the speed to the level of the oneiros with 1600 plate.
And the sensor strength and lock range don't seem very important to you.
Oh, and this oneiros is barely capstable "all 5" too. I admit cruiser 5 is easier than logi 5, but still, you need all the associated skills to get a cap stable exequror, and the remote repair augmentor rig.
By the way, the same argument goes for logi frigates : a swarm of logi require peoples, a lot of them. A logi pilot is not shooting enemies, and shooting ennemies is the first goal of a fleet. There's no point in bringing a logi fleet if you have nobody to shoot at things.
So, to sum this up : fleet won't bring more logi, because they have a limited number of people ; this exequror *is* less effective than an oneiros, even a 3 reper one. Hence, replace oneiros or any T2 logi by a T1 one, and your fleet lose remote rep power.
We could say that this would hurt small gang warfare, but I think falcon are still better. |
Deena Amaj
Community for Justice Resurrection by Election
33
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Posted - 2012.09.12 11:48:00 -
[144] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:The drones are definitely something more useful for PVE and repping i between fights. We very well could replace the drone bonus with a tracking link bonus, but we'll see.
That... actually sounds like a good idea. A dedicated ship would be cool, but that's probably better. Just please please please don't make the drone with lousy buffing stats. If the value is too low, people won't use it. And I'd almost say, have it be a heavy or med drone.
*pokes index fingers together* Was hoping you could also make the tracking link module into a spherical buff-aura like how warp disruption bubbles are, too ...
confirthisposmed
I'm probably typing on a Tablet too, which means the auto-correct is silly and fixing typos is a pain. I ain't fixing them. |
I'm Down
Macabre Votum Against ALL Authorities
67
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Posted - 2012.09.12 11:51:00 -
[145] - Quote
Bouh Revetoile wrote:I'm Down wrote:Point of the whole arguement is this:
They come out and say, oh, the ships have lower resistances.... not true on the Exeq that has an extra low and an extra rig slot.
They say it has lower sig... after bonus/pil, the Exeq is only 6 more sig.
They say it will have lower repair abilities.... but it goes to show the developers lack of knowledge of use.
And not once do they even consider the massive skill and cost withdrawl that will impact choice when considering the very diminished tradeoff.
Just move a low slot to a high slot please for the love of god on the Exeq. it's going to force it to chose between capstability and tank or power repairing and not allow it nearly as much freedom. Stop with the cookie cutter bullshit where Scythe has 3 highs, so Exeq must also. And here you kill your whole argumentation : oneiros can too get bonuses and pills ; and an exequror with pills kill the whole idea of a noob logi crowd. And extra low+extra rig *don't* make for the resist : it's called stacking penalty, it cannot achieve the same resist of a T2 hull even with full rack of resist mods. Infact, extra low slot + rig don't even make for tank at all because of one simple thing : put an ACR on the oneiros, and it have TWICE the PG of this exequror. TWICE. Tank on these ships is not even comparable. As for the third rig, an armor rig it will be most of time, reducing the speed to the level of the oneiros with 1600 plate. And the sensor strength and lock range don't seem very important to you. Oh, and this oneiros is barely capstable "all 5" too. I admit cruiser 5 is easier than logi 5, but still, you need all the associated skills to get a cap stable exequror, and the remote repair augmentor rig. By the way, the same argument goes for logi frigates : a swarm of logi require peoples, a lot of them. A logi pilot is not shooting enemies, and shooting ennemies is the first goal of a fleet. There's no point in bringing a logi fleet if you have nobody to shoot at things. So, to sum this up : fleet won't bring more logi, because they have a limited number of people ; this exequror *is* less effective than an oneiros, even a 3 reper one. Hence, replace oneiros or any T2 logi by a T1 one, and your fleet lose remote rep power. We could say that this would hurt small gang warfare, but I think falcon are still better.
hey ******, i compared them equally. Both had the same buffs
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
1305
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Posted - 2012.09.12 12:58:00 -
[146] - Quote
Like all changes posted in this forum, everything here has more tweaking to do. We're going to continue looking at all the support cruisers between now and release, to make sure they strike the proper balance of being good enough to use without eclipsing the T2 Logis.
If we balance them down, expect it to be in areas such as fittings, resilience, sig radius and rep power rather than in rep range, speed or cap stability (which we consider to be the minimum requirements to operate in a mixed fleet alongside logistics ships).
Also please refrain from name calling in my balance threads. Game Designer | Team Game of Drones https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
841
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Posted - 2012.09.12 13:09:00 -
[147] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote: Also please refrain from name calling in my balance threads.
You're a mean one, Mr. Grinch You really are a heel, You're as cuddly as a cactus, you're as charming as an eel, Mr. Grinch, You're a bad banana with a greasy black peel!
You're a monster, Mr. Grinch, Your heart's an empty hole, Your brain is full of spiders, you have garlic in your soul, Mr. Grinch, I wouldn't touch you with a thirty-nine-and-a-half foot pole!
I think these changes are great as long as T2 logi gets a bit of a tweak and adjustment as with all of the T2 ships are getting an order of magnitude closer to T1 ships with the buffs (which is good).
I think the scimi should keep the drone rep bonus and exeq should get the tracking link bonus - simple reason is to not compete for mid slots. Maybe that breaks your schema for things, but I think it does incorporate it into the T1 version enough that it makes people get the idea of it. Mimidae Risk Solutions Recruiting |
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War DarkSide.
766
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Posted - 2012.09.12 13:59:00 -
[148] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:Goddamn, these changes just keep getting worse and worse.
Whats next, giving blackbirds an extra mid and shield resist bonus? web strength on rapiers?
Michael Harari wrote:Go go power creep and making solo harder
Edit: EVE needs less "press button receive damage mitigation" and more "pilot your ship very well and receive damage mitigation"
As usual, these concerns are likely to be ignored. Instead they find it interesting to channel attention to things such as drones and bonuses, while the real question to be asked is:
are current tech2 logistics really OK? 14 |
Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
94
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Posted - 2012.09.12 14:02:00 -
[149] - Quote
T2 logistic cruisers using T2 modules are fine, the question is is the drop rate of dead space and officer mods too high https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1909550#post1909550 Drone Improvement Ideas |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
1306
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Posted - 2012.09.12 14:28:00 -
[150] - Quote
FYI I have absolutely no intention to buff T2 logistics at any point. They're really amazingly powerful as they are and do not need any buffs.
Current T2 logistics are well balanced for some aspects of the game (most obviously fleet warfare) and are probably too powerful for others (Mr. Revedhort's preferred solo play for instance). Improving solo options without either killing fun aspects of group play or making solo too easymode is definitely a goal of ours, but the solution there isn't to keep the learning cliff facing support pilots. The biggest reason that I believe these Support Cruisers will not significantly compound the problems Logistics cause for soloers is that T1 cruisers are far far easier to kill. It's the great difficulty killing a T2 Logi combined with their repping power that really causes the most issues and if these Support Cruisers prove too powerful, survivability is one of the first areas in which I'll nerf them. Game Designer | Team Game of Drones https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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