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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 19 post(s) |
Zagam
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Posted - 2011.06.24 13:56:00 -
[3841]
So here's another introspective post on our threadnaught.... that will probably be glossed over by the /ragequit posts...
First off, Thank you CCP Pann for starting up this thread. It took some serious cajones to man-up, and admit that holding back responses was not the best route for dealing with the criticism. Whenever a public entity changes artistic direction (whether its an MMO game, popular band, or TV series), 1/3 of the followers freak out, 1/3 hold judgement, and 1/3 immediately look at the new shiny and play with it. For Incarna, the freak out group has been excessively vocal, and the group withholding judgement is actually the likely majority. That said, Incarna is what I would consider a "good" patch, but with some glaring flaws.
1. MT prices are too high. Most successful MT implementations involve prices in the $2-5 range. It brings an income stream, but is generally less than the cost of lunch. The AUR prices here are WAY too high, especially with how they are tied to PLEX. 2. CQ is great and shiny, and some people just can't handle change. CQ would have been better implemented with more "stuff" to do inside (ie: make the screens interactive and modifiable), and graphic detail should be independently controlled for CQ. EVE is one of the least graphics-intensive MMOs out there, so there are a select few playing EVE on their old 386. I'm not saying we should develop for the least common denominator, but Incarna is a huge jump in graphics requirements. 3. Incarna brings a lot of new shiny, but aside from CQ, nothing substantial. New turret animations are great... but most of us don't do PvP zoomed in on our turrets to see how cool they are. We're trying to stay alive. IMO, I'd love to see some minor patches over the next few months redoing the textures and external design on several ships (I can think of many that need the help). Say, 2-3 ships every couple of weeks? I can speak for nearly all of us when I say that most of the EVE populace would rather see redesigned ships before new CQ. 4. The community is what makes EVE the vibrant game that it is. There is a great and supportive group of people here, which is awesome. At the same time, this IS the internet, and there are many kids on here with raging e-peens, and no concept of decorum, business sense, or tact. Those children (I'm not just speaking chronologically, either) can quickly turn a civil, intelligent conversation into a destructive mass of shouting and fighting. Give the children some new shiny toy that they can't hurt themselves with, so the adults can talk.
~Z
---------.oOo.---------- Chaos, Madness, and Destruction. My work here is done. |
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
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Posted - 2011.06.24 13:56:00 -
[3842]
Originally by: Vim Helicity organizing the forumwarriorsunitedmobile and using alts etc to further inflame the discussion? Making alot of trouble where little should have been had? Keep a permaban on that no good purulent wound on a donkeys dug. If the warriorbrigade had not risen to free helicity of a simple forum ban, CCP could probably have comeout with an explanation much faster. Now they got threadnaughted by alts with only one agenda: Our buddie is butthurt and rallying us. Because a lowly forum moderater banned her. The forum ban of helicity would have been lifted by now if helicity hadnt massed her armies to cause ccp grief, nerdrage much. Now heli is permabanned. Yeah I would have done that to.
If you honest to god think this rage has anything to do with Helicity's ban you're a new kind of special.
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Smoking Blunts
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Posted - 2011.06.24 13:56:00 -
[3843]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: Sur Jamkar
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow Given my position as a CSM, it would not be appropriate for me to advocate that my fellow players take a particular action.
Dude - It's time to man up son. I see your position within the CSM is more important then the players who you represent and even voted for you. You can GTFO. Don't count on a re-election next time after not having the balls to stand up for something.
I have a responsibility as your representative to act on your behalf, and in your best interests. That means keeping calm, being diplomatic in public, and brutally honest in private.
You may rest assured that I have been spending 7-10 hours a day recently on CSM issues, because I love the game and what is happening to it deeply disturbs me. As I said before, actions speak louder than words, and I hope that when the next election comes around, those of my actions that become public will speak for themselves.
as the csm is clearly nothing more than a farce. will your pride allow you to participate in the farce that is the csm for nothing more than a few all expense paid trips to iceland? maybe if all the csm stood down ccp would actually notice your imput. cos lets face it, they couldnt give a **** about you or the csm currently
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Azelor Delaria
Caldari Nova Ardour
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Posted - 2011.06.24 13:57:00 -
[3844]
I've stayed quiet on this fiasco for long enough. I managed to see one of the CCP call me stupid.
In high school, I was called "stupid", not because I had a learning disability, but because I lacked common sense.
In boot camp I was called "stupid". As enlisted, I was called it. Now here I am, at 25-years-old, a full Captain in the United States Marine Corps. Who's stupid?
I expect a petulant child to come along and call someone he doesn't like a name. But for a company who needs us to survive saying that we are "stupid" for not falling into lock-step and doing exactly as we are told? We decide to use these forums and come together as a community, which is what you wanted since day 1 (at least your claim).
We come together, as a community. This is the first time I think I have honestly see griefers and carebears come together and say, "WHAT THE **** IS WRONG WITH YOU???"
World of Warcraft has an RMT system. However, those don't give you benefits in game. You get a sparkly pony (YAY!!!!!!!!), or a small companion animal. There is nothing that you can buy to give you a massive advantage. Everything is gained through your own actions. Say what you will, but at least WoW hasn't fallen to your level. Then again, they have a solid fanbase that hasn't been constantly **** on by their developers.
How many times have you lied to this community? How many times have we been told, "We are looking to build a relationship with you. We want you to trust us!" To be honest, the only relationship you have been consistent in giving is (not really) surprise buttsex.
We want things fixed in this game. We want issues that have been brought up for years addressed. We want you to stop with this Incarna BS and fix something, like hybrids.
AND WE WANT YOU TO KEEP YOUR GODDAMN WORD.
Tell me: if you lose EVE Online, what do you have? DUST? Wasn't that supposed to be set in the EVE universe? So what happens if EVE dies?
And what stops your competitors from pointing to EVE and saying, "Do you really want to play that when it's destined to fail?"
What about WoD? Your competitors are being given all the ammo they need here.
You have decisions to make, and you have something you have to do. However, integrity is like virginity: once you lose it, you can never get it back. At this point, you have to work for our trust. You have to not only support this game and show us it's still worth playing, but also that you as a company and as people are deserving of our respect and money.
What you do speaks so loudly that what you say I can not hear. ***** ***** ***** *****
"No OPLAN ever survives first contact with the enemy." |
Mirime Nolwe
APOCALYPSE LEGION
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Posted - 2011.06.24 13:57:00 -
[3845]
The ironic thing is that until this moment the EVE community was know as one of the best and most dedicated in the MMO industry and this is what might "kill" the game. It's crystal clear that CCP do not take the same serious level of development quality to improve EVE like they did in the last years, we just need to check the last content patches to understand this. This behavior is really sad since the company have plenty resources, at least comparing with the first years of the game..
Anyway, i wont talk more about the current issues because CCP already have plenty posts to analyze.
I don't trust CCP anymore so main account is canceled (alt account already sleeping for some months) till CCP shows the dedication they had to the game in the past.
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M14D
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Posted - 2011.06.24 13:57:00 -
[3846]
Btw, why do we care about a forum ban of this Velicity person.
Inform me. It better be good, otherwise the stupidity of mankind has reached a new low. We're all conflict-seeking bastard sons of Ares.
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Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
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Posted - 2011.06.24 13:57:00 -
[3847]
Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 24/06/2011 13:58:21 CCP dug their own grave and is now in it.
No one else is to blame.
The newsletter is just the talking piece, if you read around all this bull**** attitude from CCP has been public for years.
edit: and with each expansion comes closer to boiling over. Which it now has with a little help from information from multiple fronts.
His name was John Turbefield! Truth. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4YHvtEJgBc Best brief on the details. FREE HELICITY |
Prof Alvin
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Posted - 2011.06.24 13:57:00 -
[3848]
Originally by: Ancyker
:)
My precious!
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Velicitia
Open Designs
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Posted - 2011.06.24 13:58:00 -
[3849]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: Sur Jamkar
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow Given my position as a CSM, it would not be appropriate for me to advocate that my fellow players take a particular action.
Dude - It's time to man up son. I see your position within the CSM is more important then the players who you represent and even voted for you. You can GTFO. Don't count on a re-election next time after not having the balls to stand up for something.
I have a responsibility as your representative to act on your behalf, and in your best interests. That means keeping calm, being diplomatic in public, and brutally honest in private.
You may rest assured that I have been spending 7-10 hours a day recently on CSM issues, because I love the game and what is happening to it deeply disturbs me. As I said before, actions speak louder than words, and I hope that when the next election comes around, those of my actions that become public will speak for themselves.
y'know mate... acting on our behalf is good and all ... but you were just as blind to this as we were.
I came to the game way after T20, and some of the other scandals that happened... so I have no voice there, it's history, and CCP seems to have made the right decisions there (game's still around and all)...
CCP *really* has to do a hard 180 and get themselves out of this mess ... they're hulltanking right now... and it's probably not going to last very long =========================
Originally by: CCP Games, Tyranis Expansion, Summer 2010 Creation is so precious...and greed, so destructive.
CCP - Your choice WILL make a difference |
San Severina
Minmatar Autocannons Anonymous
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Posted - 2011.06.24 13:58:00 -
[3850]
Originally by: Rasz Lin Just so you know guys, Valve's Team Fortress 2 went FREE today, no need to pay anything.
still a pretty good game, even with the MT (vanity items only) (although that could change now )
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GunJob
Lonetrek Salvage and Scrap
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Posted - 2011.06.24 13:58:00 -
[3851]
ftw |
Nikolae Varius
Amarr Mongrel Squad Skunk Works.
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Posted - 2011.06.24 13:58:00 -
[3852]
Originally by: Ancyker
:)
lol, dude + 9.999e99999.....
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Jackie Fisher
Syrkos Technologies Joint Venture Conglomerate
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Posted - 2011.06.24 13:59:00 -
[3853]
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Joseph Vacher
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Posted - 2011.06.24 13:59:00 -
[3854]
If CCP did Star Trek.
What can I say, I'm really ****ing bored of waiting. Sorry everyone.
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Azelor Delaria
Caldari Nova Ardour
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Posted - 2011.06.24 13:59:00 -
[3855]
Originally by: Jackie Fisher
I miss Baghdad Bob. :( ***** ***** ***** *****
"No OPLAN ever survives first contact with the enemy." |
M14D
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Posted - 2011.06.24 14:00:00 -
[3856]
Originally by: Mirime Nolwe The ironic thing is that until this moment the EVE community was know as one of the best and most dedicated in the MMO industry and this is what might "kill" the game. It's crystal clear that CCP do not take the same serious level of development quality to improve EVE like they did in the last years, we just need to check the last content patches to understand this. This behavior is really sad since the company have plenty resources, at least comparing with the first years of the game..
Anyway, i wont talk more about the current issues because CCP already have plenty posts to analyze.
I don't trust CCP anymore so main account is canceled (alt account already sleeping for some months) till CCP shows the dedication they had to the game in the past.
This won't kill the game. Know why? Eventhough it's impressive to have this many posters here, it's but a small fraction of the total subscribers and let me tell you: the majority doesn't give a flying goose about these changes. They'll take it up the rear and suck it up; if it even goes through.
It's only the discontent that feel the need to vent here. With a few exceptions of CCP fanboys, to whom I semi belong to as there's one thing I truely detest and that's blind emo pitchfork rage.
Especially people who ''close their accounts''. They're back in two days tops.
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Shade Millith
Caldari Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.06.24 14:00:00 -
[3857]
Originally by: Vim Helicity organizing the forumwarriorsunitedmobile and using alts etc to further inflame the discussion? Making alot of trouble where little should have been had? Keep a permaban on that no good purulent wound on a donkeys dug.
CCP said that Incarna was going to be optional. They lied
CCP said the MT were off the table. They lied
CCP is attempting to make nearly all 3rd party apps/websites pay them $99.
CCP has got a leak that states an attempt to sell new ships/ammo/standings for $.
This is completely unacceptable. ------------------------
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Los Quinton
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Posted - 2011.06.24 14:00:00 -
[3858]
The most epic thing to happen now is CCP come on and tell us:
"Too many people are upset. We apoligze. For our punishment, we will close Eve permanantly and not make any more money from it. Sorry!"
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Marcus Vorenius
Instant Annihilation
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Posted - 2011.06.24 14:00:00 -
[3859]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: Sur Jamkar
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow Given my position as a CSM, it would not be appropriate for me to advocate that my fellow players take a particular action.
Dude - It's time to man up son. I see your position within the CSM is more important then the players who you represent and even voted for you. You can GTFO. Don't count on a re-election next time after not having the balls to stand up for something.
I have a responsibility as your representative to act on your behalf, and in your best interests. That means keeping calm, being diplomatic in public, and brutally honest in private.
You may rest assured that I have been spending 7-10 hours a day recently on CSM issues, because I love the game and what is happening to it deeply disturbs me. As I said before, actions speak louder than words, and I hope that when the next election comes around, those of my actions that become public will speak for themselves.
I honestly think that working with the CSM should be a very attractive option for CCP at the moment. Thanks for your efforts and good luck working with both sides to resolve this mess.
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CydoniusElfo
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.24 14:00:00 -
[3860]
So did anything change in the 129 pages of this thread or is it the same kind of replies over and over again? Did CCP Pann reply or is he still at page 63 or something
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Chrysanthemum Korik
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.06.24 14:00:00 -
[3861]
1. When items cost more than the sub fee, or more than the cost of buying the game in the box, its no longer microtransactions. Even if kept to vanity items the scale of the prices makes it feel like gouging and why would you want your customer base to feel that you're gouging them?
2. EvE is the kind of game you invest a lot of time into. If you make your players feel that in the not too distant future the game will become something they don't like for CCP's benefit, but not the player's benefit (selling non-vantiy items), or because they lose trust that you'll deal with them squarely then the game will lose a lot of its appeal.
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Eladaris
Amarr Excessum Industries
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Posted - 2011.06.24 14:00:00 -
[3862]
Originally by: Kerigras Darshwitz
even if they are game breaking items, potentially more powerful than officer modules/t3 ships, they would cost alot more than the monocle since it would be a usuable item..which means that person would be paying alot of money (perhaps $100+) just for a ship/module considering the expense of a mere monocle. that being said i think an officer module goes for maybe 1-2 bill for the lower grade ones? so thats what...5 plexes worth? i dunno but my whole point is if people were using $ to get PLEX to get ISK to get Officer mod then how does people using $ to get AUR to get mod change anything? i realize of course not everyone does this and some people actually do save up the isk to buy their stuffz, and thats good on them! just saying there are currently other ways to get "endgame" mods ectect using real $ without the whole MT thing
A player purchases PLEX with RL currency, and injects it into the game. PLEX is part of a player driven economy and suffers from everything that entails. We the player's set the value of a PLEX. There is absolutely zero in-game use of a PLEX. Only when the PLEX exits the system and is converted into game time does the PLEX have any value. And even then it does not ADD anything new into the system.
Anything that is purchased by a player from the ISK made selling the PLEX in-game was created from the work of players. A player mined to create the ore (even if it was botted ore), an industrialist created the item in question and sold it on the open market. Conversely a PvE'r killed that faction spawn causing the faction item to drop.
This is vastly different from a CCP dev waking up one morning and saying "Heyas chaps, we can make another five million bucks off our playerbase by boosting the stats on implants from +5 to +6 and selling it on the AUR market."
Even once that AUR item is purchasable by ISK, it doesn't change the fact that CCP can simply add a new item to the AUR store and print cash from it. In-game boosting items from AUR are a horrible idea for the player base, because CCP can simply add give us some previously stripped feature (more fittings / faction towers) or simply remove some shiny feature from a future expansion and then sell it to us in the AUR store (unlock the Amarr CQ for 37,000 AUR).
We aren't paying for expansions, but when the dev's start making items for direct resale for profit... the player base has already cartwheeled off the slippery slope into a truly bad place.
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COMEATMEBRO IMHERE
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Posted - 2011.06.24 14:00:00 -
[3863]
Originally by: Azelor Delaria I've stayed quiet on this fiasco for long enough. I managed to see one of the CCP call me stupid.
In high school, I was called "stupid", not because I had a learning disability, but because I lacked common sense.
In boot camp I was called "stupid". As enlisted, I was called it. Now here I am, at 25-years-old, a full Captain in the United States Marine Corps. Who's stupid?
I expect a petulant child to come along and call someone he doesn't like a name. But for a company who needs us to survive saying that we are "stupid" for not falling into lock-step and doing exactly as we are told? We decide to use these forums and come together as a community, which is what you wanted since day 1 (at least your claim).
We come together, as a community. This is the first time I think I have honestly see griefers and carebears come together and say, "WHAT THE **** IS WRONG WITH YOU???"
World of Warcraft has an RMT system. However, those don't give you benefits in game. You get a sparkly pony (YAY!!!!!!!!), or a small companion animal. There is nothing that you can buy to give you a massive advantage. Everything is gained through your own actions. Say what you will, but at least WoW hasn't fallen to your level. Then again, they have a solid fanbase that hasn't been constantly **** on by their developers.
How many times have you lied to this community? How many times have we been told, "We are looking to build a relationship with you. We want you to trust us!" To be honest, the only relationship you have been consistent in giving is (not really) surprise buttsex.
We want things fixed in this game. We want issues that have been brought up for years addressed. We want you to stop with this Incarna BS and fix something, like hybrids.
AND WE WANT YOU TO KEEP YOUR GODDAMN WORD.
Tell me: if you lose EVE Online, what do you have? DUST? Wasn't that supposed to be set in the EVE universe? So what happens if EVE dies?
And what stops your competitors from pointing to EVE and saying, "Do you really want to play that when it's destined to fail?"
What about WoD? Your competitors are being given all the ammo they need here.
You have decisions to make, and you have something you have to do. However, integrity is like virginity: once you lose it, you can never get it back. At this point, you have to work for our trust. You have to not only support this game and show us it's still worth playing, but also that you as a company and as people are deserving of our respect and money.
What you do speaks so loudly that what you say I can not hear.
YOU MAD KID?
WHINY F*AG GO PLAY HELLO KITTY ONLINE AND GIVE ME ALL YOUR STUFF AND ISK NOW!
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Darveses
Fantastulousification Inc.
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Posted - 2011.06.24 14:01:00 -
[3864]
Originally by: Prof Alvin
Originally by: Ancyker
:)
My precious!
Gollum could afford a 70$ monocle? MY IMMERSION!
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Hal Cy0n
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Posted - 2011.06.24 14:01:00 -
[3865]
i was ere
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Velicitia
Open Designs
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Posted - 2011.06.24 14:01:00 -
[3866]
Originally by: M14D Btw, why do we care about a forum ban of this Velicity person.
Inform me. It better be good, otherwise the stupidity of mankind has reached a new low. We're all conflict-seeking bastard sons of Ares.
1. it's "Helicity"
I believe it was Helicity who initially leaked the newsletter... (someone correct if wrong)
It was mostly this that got her perma-banned. =========================
Originally by: CCP Games, Tyranis Expansion, Summer 2010 Creation is so precious...and greed, so destructive.
CCP - Your choice WILL make a difference |
Serric
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2011.06.24 14:01:00 -
[3867]
So, you are charging me a monthly sub, to fund coding on items that you are going to sell to me.. again?... all the while ignoring improvements and bug fixes that your players have been asking for over the last few YEARS?!
CCP, you have lost your way.
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Hyperforce99
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2011.06.24 14:01:00 -
[3868]
Edited by: Hyperforce99 on 24/06/2011 14:04:46
Originally by: Zverofaust Edited by: Zverofaust on 24/06/2011 13:42:13 Think this sums it up nicely.
QFT
Also, let me at least say to other people, tone it down a notch, The last thing you want is EVE or CCP to be damaged beyond repair by this, or you wouldn't be protesting this heavily.
Making physical (death) treats to CCP employees also doesn't help at all and just makes you look like a raging internet loonatic.
--------------------------------------------- Somewhere beyond happyness and sadness, I need to calculate what creates my own madness o/ |
SolusLunes
Caldari The Python Cartel. The Defenders of Pen Island
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Posted - 2011.06.24 14:01:00 -
[3869]
Originally by: CydoniusElfo So did anything change in the 129 pages of this thread or is it the same kind of replies over and over again? Did CCP Pann reply or is he still at page 63 or something
http://eve-search.com/thread/1536065/author/CCP
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Easy Tiger
Caldari Whirling Dervishes
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Posted - 2011.06.24 14:02:00 -
[3870]
Originally by: Astroyka
Originally by: Zverofaust Think this sums it up nicely.
This is superbly written.
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