Procurer, Retriever, Covetor, Skiff, Mackinaw, Hulk.

Hmm, i dont see any major advantages on any t1/t2 cruiser/battlecruiser and ships you mentioned. in other words, every ship in eve is "pre--tanked" by your definition.

Please show me the ship which is "pre-tanked"

tbh most exhumer pilots deserve it.

You see no difference in base EHP between a mining vessel and a combat vessel.

How about we just give combat vessels the same mining yield as mining vessels and be done with it.

No you dont see a difference. CCP buffed their EHP because they were primitively cheap to gank. Even well fitted mackiaw was easily ganked by 2-3 catalysts and were profitable to gankers. What CCP did was just balance their EHP. They can be still profitable like some of l4 mission boats. You just have to search for expensive target.

[Mackinaw, Tough Cookie]
Damage Control II
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II

Medium Shield Extender II
Medium Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I


Hobgoblin II x5
Hobgoblin II x5

Here is the current Mackinaw setup I am using. You do need a +3% power grid implant for it to work. Also I picked up a +3% to shield amount. Toss in Tengu and Loki bonuses, have your shield hardeners preoverloaded, but not turned on. Mine ice until very upset gankers come for you, then turn on the hardeners. You now have 79,777 EHP with a 188m signature radius. If you don't have access to bonuses then you still have a solid 59,207 EHP. Once Concord has made short work of them, scoop the loot and return to station to drop off your ice, loot and repair your hardeners. Rinse, repeat, enjoy.

Most importantly, be sure to save any kind of local smack they dish at you in your notepad. As you can see from this very thread, even though they complain about miners not tanking their ships, when you do tank it, they still complain.

They used to have a base EHP that put them in the same class as heavy assault ships. How exactly was that not balanced?

christ stop cockblocking our party, not that they'd listen

christ stop cockblocking our party, not that they'd listen

I mentioned this a thousand times. Extremely low PowerGrid. While HAC could fit large tank extenders, miners couldnt.

Man, Marlona is still really mad about being banned from kugu by Mittens.

Which is why we asked for more fitting room, not more base EHP. Right now the Mack is unbalanced because of its base EHP.

If CCP had done this then a bunch of people would have posted various utility fits for the procurer and skiff and hurf-blurfed about combat barges.

If CCP had done this then a bunch of people would have posted various utility fits for the procurer and skiff and hurf-blurfed about combat barges. I understand that in your mind an intrinsic part of balance is maintaining a certain consistency in "ease to gank" a completely untanked ship of different types...but I question why you think anyone else, CCP or otherwise, would share that opinion. I certainly don't--noncombat ships are given less fitting flexibility to impede their ability to be fitted for combat, and therefore are 'balanced' with higher base EHP compared to combat ships. CCP has followed this plan for years--but for some reason intentionally made mining ships, compared to other industrials, extra fragile. I can guess that this reason was to make ganking mining bots easier, and have bots/afk miners be vulnerable. You guys started exploiting this fact to kill ATK miners, and CCP changed their philosophy, as one could have easily predicted.

I certainly can't stop you from continuining to hurf-blurf about this fictitious brand of balance, but rest assured that CCP that whatever option they chose, a different subset of forum-posters would complain about it, and that they planned on ignoring this specific group of complaints years before you even made them.

Its at this point I point out the the mack did get a buff to fitting room

This makes no sense.

Well, it actually happened, to a lesser degree than if CCP had vastly increased fitting room. So while I feel bad for you that the universe as it actually exists doesn't make sense to you, I don't think there's much I can do to mitigate this for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndWUlntJ58U

Tell me why anyone would look at this and think it was anything other than awesome.

So the mining ships get a major buff in EHP. Fitting expansion to mount a pretty decent tank. Ore holds so that one does not need to use rigs to expand them but considerable nonetheless.

And this still isn't enough?

Okay, I'm not going to bother trying to make sense out of you, then. vOv

Sorry, I thought this was another "mining ships are OP/why am I still getting ganked" thread.

Instead, it's a "swallow a dictionary and activate the double talk generator" thread.

Stupid me.

Sorry, I thought this was another "mining ships are OP/why am I still getting ganked" thread.

Instead, it's a "swallow a dictionary and activate the double talk generator" thread.

Stupid me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndWUlntJ58U

Tell me why anyone would look at this and think it was anything other than awesome.