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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Inc Shimaya
Horizons Inc
1
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Posted - 2013.01.17 14:47:00 -
[91] - Quote
The rush I get from being ganked in my retriever is worth it. Removing non-consensual PVP from hisec is at best a poor decision. If this has to do only with wardecs then revamp or improve that system.
I mine with my alt quite a bit and have been ganked numerous times and never got mad about it (well maybe the first time). In the end however it had made a decision for me. I set up an alt and started ganking others to try it out. It isn't my thing but it is fun as hell. What it did show me is how I can make it harder to be ganked.
Getting people to do things they wouldn't normally do because of an action taken by someone else is the best type of experience in a game.
Removing that removes the better parts of Eve.
PS: Another thought is each faction could have newbie systems that are pvp free. Once you pass a time/security threshold you cannot enter the newbie systems. This could let newbie's breathe a bit and do the initial learning that they in fact need. |
Captain Death1
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
38
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Posted - 2013.01.17 14:48:00 -
[92] - Quote
ccp in bed with sony all ready i say the gankers have done a good job of killing the game sony buys game |
Anslo
The Scope Gallente Federation
1102
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Posted - 2013.01.17 14:48:00 -
[93] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:Do you have any proof that the market has changed, and that EVE will die if it doesn't turn itself into a WoW clone? Anything at all? No? I like how you instantly think that anything anti-PvP means Eve will turn into WoW. You should avoid extreme's if you want to be taken seriously and not as a puppeted troll account for another predatory pvper. Eve has lasted long by staying small to an extent, but one can infer that such a plan can't be sustained indefinitely. It's a business, businesses need to expand to survive and compete, otherwise they risk being out maneuvered by a competitor they didn't see coming. More players, more capital, more expansions for both PvE'ers AND PvP'ers (Balancing things AND adding shiny content).
It's foolish to assume that because I don't have an 80 page market analysis report ready on the state of the gaming public that your statement is fact.
Quote:There's proof to the contrary though: The continued growing of the user base despite still being a harsh, cold universe where people can kill you, steal from you, scam you, etc This is continued growth yes, but not enough to sustain a business that needs to adapt. Take a few business classes or read a bit more. That is growth, but very, VERY minimal growth for a game that's been running for ten years. You think this will continue for another 10? I can already see a subtle decline over the past few months on average versus growth we've seen years before.
baltec1 wrote:People blowing up a ship to steal isk is not griefing. People war decing a corp to destroy their tower so they can place their own is not griefing, people taking up a contract to war dec a rivals competition is not griefing. If both parties are capable of fighting then no it isn't, you're right. I.E. the nul block wars. But to me, a 50 man griefer group attacking a 3 man miner corp because they don't like miners is. My problem isn't with PvP, it's the toxic attitude or predatory "PvP" that has grown in this community. Grown to the point that I just stopped playing Eve and PvPing for a while period. PvP used to be fun, war decs and all. Nul AND highsec PvP was great. Now high sec pvp is just bullying. I'd go back to nul sec but hey, got a job now, fiance, a life.
Quote:Just about the only thing that is griefing is can baiting on the starter stations. You need to start learning the difference or you only end up looking like a self entitled child. See above.
Quote:I'll take the plan that has resulted in the only MMO to have 10 years of growth over all of the other dead after 3 months plans. All of the evidence over the last decade points to CCP getting it right. And as I said, it's foolish to think that said growth (minimal growth at that) can continue this way for ANOTHER 10 years.
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Riedle
Paradox Collective Choke Point
254
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Posted - 2013.01.17 14:48:00 -
[94] - Quote
Quote:allow bored rich veterans who have been playing for years and just use ISK to pay for game time (no real cash going to CCP)
I say, wot? |
Whitehound
372
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Posted - 2013.01.17 14:49:00 -
[95] - Quote
Doctor Ungabungas wrote:Blame it on Incarana.
Which is what it was.
They're finally heading in the right direction but damage takes time to fix. No, I disagree. It has been a while since the release of Incarna. The numbers should be climbing and not further declining. We have seen quite a few good game changes since then.
I'd say this game contains too many Goons, wouldn't you agree? |
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
121
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Posted - 2013.01.17 14:50:00 -
[96] - Quote
I've seen it before as most of you probably have. How the hell does an industry repeat failures again and again and again and again...and still they try to change the product, keep the current customers and add tons of new ones. Repeating the same damn thing over and over expecting a different outcome is a mark of insanity and anyone producing a modern MMO should know better.
What do they teach in business school these days "Herd thought 101"? A "vision" for the next 10 years?...hun you have a large customer base to sell things to EVERY DAY ya better get your focus off "years down the road" and start looking at improving what the nearly homeless guys made...it is officially recognized as a work of art not a friggen' rushed product. It became a work of art because of them and us not you.
Quote: EVE Online was shipped by guys that GÇ£were about to lose their housesGÇ¥
I would have a banner made with that on it and hang it right as you come in the door at CCP's headquarters. |
Mister S Burke
Earths Naval Space Command The Mandalorians
20
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Posted - 2013.01.17 14:51:00 -
[97] - Quote
Riedle wrote:[quote=Mister S Burke]CCP do not agree with your flawed definition.
Conclusion: HTFU
Actually they do which is why this topic we are in even exists. CCP knows they can't keep letting the gankers run off new people and they know they have a mob of veteran fanatics to deal with. The choice is clear, throw the die hard old vets under the bus and cater to the new players. Why? The old vets will grumble and won't go to WOW, but the young people will go play a competitors game. Just ask the American republican party what happens when you let the die hard fringe elements fly the ship. Evolve or die. |
Whitehound
372
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Posted - 2013.01.17 14:51:00 -
[98] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Its funny how the most successful upsurge just happened to be when they did a pvp update. There is always a spike around expansions and Christmas. And when both fall together then it only gets stronger. Yet, it didn't reach the numbers of the past. |
TheBlueMonkey
Don't Be a Menace That Red Alliance
349
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Posted - 2013.01.17 14:56:00 -
[99] - Quote
If eve turns into a theme park I'm done.
That's not a "QQ WAAAAAAAAAAA I R NO PLAY TOYZ EXITING PRAM" comment.
I started playing eve because it's a sandbox and I get to do what I want and set my own goals. If things turn into a theme park and I all there is is to following along and repeat the same 5 quests over and over again, ala wow.
I'll just go find something else to do, as depressing as that is. |
baltec1
Bat Country
4771
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Posted - 2013.01.17 14:57:00 -
[100] - Quote
Anslo wrote: And as I said, it's foolish to think that said growth (minimal growth at that) can continue this way for ANOTHER 10 years.
Why?
Got any evidence that shows that EVE will die if the core of the game isn't gutted and replaced with the safety every single other failed MMO provides?
Meanwhile I will just point out that the last expansion in december, which added even more ways to be killed in high sec, has resulted in a boom in player numbers. This tells us that people want to fight in high sec and not be utterly safe. |
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baltec1
Bat Country
4771
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Posted - 2013.01.17 14:58:00 -
[101] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:baltec1 wrote:Its funny how the most successful upsurge just happened to be when they did a pvp update. There is always a spike around expansions and Christmas. And when both fall together then it only gets stronger. Yet, it didn't reach the numbers of the past.
No it went past them. We now have the highest subs in the games history. |
Mister S Burke
Earths Naval Space Command The Mandalorians
20
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Posted - 2013.01.17 14:58:00 -
[102] - Quote
TheBlueMonkey wrote: all there is is to following along and repeat the same 5 quests over and over again, ala wow.
I'll just go find something else to do, as depressing as that is.
5 different quests you say? What kind of game would just have the same few missions.... oh wait
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Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor
1616
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Posted - 2013.01.17 15:01:00 -
[103] - Quote
I love how people are looking at average server connections as an indication of EVE's success rather than the number of active subscriptions. I rarely agree with baltec1 but he's absolutely right. Mane 614
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Mister S Burke
Earths Naval Space Command The Mandalorians
20
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Posted - 2013.01.17 15:02:00 -
[104] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:[quote=Anslo]
Meanwhile I will just point out that the last expansion in december, which added even more ways to be killed in high sec, has resulted in a boom in player numbers. This tells us that people want to fight in high sec and not be utterly safe.
Wrong, I subbed in December and I am here to tell you it was in spite of the fact that some Thrasher srub suicide ganked my little ship and not because of it. I know at least 3 people who didn't sub because of that kind of BS. They uninstalled and went to another game and never looked back.
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Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor
1616
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Posted - 2013.01.17 15:05:00 -
[105] - Quote
Mister S Burke wrote:Wrong, I subbed in December and I am here to tell you it was in spite of the fact that some Thrasher srub suicide ganked my little ship and not because of it. I know at least 3 people who didn't sub because of that kind of BS. They uninstalled and went to another game and never looked back.
Then with all due respect ot them they're probably not the kind of people who were suited to play EVE Online anyway. EVE Online has never had the mass-market appeal of World of Warcraft and it has never needed or aimed for it. EVE Online is a game in which at any point, at any time after you click undock, you are in danger of losing your ship. It will experience success by continuing in that vein. If you're not prepared to deal with that, you should probably let your subscription lapse. Mane 614
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Anslo
The Scope Gallente Federation
1102
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Posted - 2013.01.17 15:06:00 -
[106] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Why?
Got any evidence that shows that EVE will die if the core of the game isn't gutted and replaced with the safety every single other failed MMO provides?
Meanwhile I will just point out that the last expansion in december, which added even more ways to be killed in high sec, has resulted in a boom in player numbers. This tells us that people want to fight in high sec and not be utterly safe.
Again with the extremist thinking. Did I say die? Did anyone aside from nutjob, zealot predatory PvP'ers say anything about Eve DYING? No. I said numbers are in decline. This could lead to stagnation. A very different, but just as horrible, outcome for Eve.
And what do ya know, I do have some evidence (that I'm sure you and other predators will twist).
Looking at the all time numbers, 2008-2011 saw wonderful growth. After that, there is an average decline. Even the Christmas/Winter expansion didn't make Eve see 2011 numbers. It's subtle, but it's a trend. It's a decline. B BUT NO EVE IS GETTING MOAR SUBSCRIPTIONZ! I can subscribe to a game, but if I'm jaded with what it's become, I'm not going to log in and play. Just try to cancel or wait for the subscription to wane.
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baltec1
Bat Country
4773
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Posted - 2013.01.17 15:08:00 -
[107] - Quote
Mister S Burke wrote:baltec1 wrote:[quote=Anslo]
Meanwhile I will just point out that the last expansion in december, which added even more ways to be killed in high sec, has resulted in a boom in player numbers. This tells us that people want to fight in high sec and not be utterly safe. Wrong, I subbed in December and I am here to tell you it was in spite of the fact that some Thrasher srub suicide ganked my little ship and not because of it. I know at least 3 people who didn't sub because of that kind of BS. They uninstalled and went to another game and never looked back.
You lost a badly fitted Giffin in January in a -0.1 system (7GCD-P) to a 6 man gang. Ironicly the only thrasher in the fight was in your own gang. |
Corey Fumimasa
The Advent of Faith
1
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Posted - 2013.01.17 15:08:00 -
[108] - Quote
Mister S Burke wrote:Riedle wrote:[quote=Mister S Burke]CCP do not agree with your flawed definition.
Conclusion: HTFU Actually they do which is why this topic we are in even exists. CCP knows they can't keep letting the gankers run off new people and they know they have a mob of veteran fanatics to deal with. The choice is clear, throw the die hard old vets under the bus and cater to the new players. Why? The old vets will grumble and won't go to WOW, but the young people will go play a competitors game. Just ask the American republican party what happens when you let the die hard fringe elements fly the ship. Evolve or die.
Both the Dems and the Republicans are rushing towards the center. That makes sense. Closing highsec off from PvP is not the center. That is just the other side of "old vet" extremism.
Allowing players to accumulate massive fortunes with no risk will have a significant impact on the economy.
One of the area's that Eve is head and shoulders above every other MMO out there is the player economy.
I think this huge casual player base of grandmothers, preteen girls and retired milkmen that you keep alluding to might actually be more happy with a feelgood app than a game like Eve, regardless of PvP.
I'm not trying to argue with you here, just pointing out some observations.
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Whitehound
373
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Posted - 2013.01.17 15:09:00 -
[109] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Anslo wrote: And as I said, it's foolish to think that said growth (minimal growth at that) can continue this way for ANOTHER 10 years.
Why? Got any evidence that shows that EVE will die if the core of the game isn't gutted and replaced with the safety every single other failed MMO provides? Meanwhile I will just point out that the last expansion in december, which added even more ways to be killed in high sec, has resulted in a boom in player numbers. This tells us that people want to fight in high sec and not be utterly safe. I have no evidence, but I still say other games fail not because they have safety, but because they are generally crap. I know, such a strong thesis is hard to proof...
Retribution then did not add new ways of dying. One still only dies when one takes too much damage and it is the only way one gets killed. |
Mister S Burke
Earths Naval Space Command The Mandalorians
20
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Posted - 2013.01.17 15:10:00 -
[110] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:Mister S Burke wrote:Wrong, I subbed in December and I am here to tell you it was in spite of the fact that some Thrasher srub suicide ganked my little ship and not because of it. I know at least 3 people who didn't sub because of that kind of BS. They uninstalled and went to another game and never looked back. Then with all due respect ot them they're probably not the kind of people who were suited to play EVE Online anyway. EVE Online has never had the mass-market appeal of World of Warcraft and it has never needed or aimed for it. EVE Online is a game in which at any point, at any time after you click undock, you are in danger of losing your ship. It will experience success by continuing in that vein. If you're not prepared to deal with that, you should probably let your subscription lapse.
Yes, I just think there is a happy medium to get more people into the game as we all know it can take some time for it to "click". It can be hard enough to get around and get going then you add someone blowing up what little you have right at the start. I think things can be made more starter PVE friendly without turning anything into wow. WoW would be as small as EVE if you got stripped naked every time you died.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
7152
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Posted - 2013.01.17 15:10:00 -
[111] - Quote
What's good about EVE other than that the players are allowed the maximum possible freedom to interact with each other? Vote for Malcanis for CSM8 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=192717&find=unread |
baltec1
Bat Country
4773
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 15:10:00 -
[112] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Again with the extremist thinking. Did I say die? Did anyone aside from nutjob, zealot predatory PvP'ers say anything about Eve DYING? No. I said numbers are in decline. This could lead to stagnation. A very different, but just as horrible, outcome for Eve. And what do ya know, I do have some evidence (that I'm sure you and other predators will twist). Looking at the all time numbers, 2008-2011 saw wonderful growth. After that, there is an average decline. Even the Christmas/Winter expansion didn't make Eve see 2011 numbers. It's subtle, but it's a trend. It's a decline. B BUT NO EVE IS GETTING MOAR SUBSCRIPTIONZ! I can subscribe to a game, but if I'm jaded with what it's become, I'm not going to log in and play. Just try to cancel or wait for the subscription to wane.
You say numbers are in decline yet CCP announce a new subscription record...
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
1147
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 15:11:00 -
[113] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Anslo wrote: And as I said, it's foolish to think that said growth (minimal growth at that) can continue this way for ANOTHER 10 years.
Why? Got any evidence that shows that EVE will die if the core of the game isn't gutted and replaced with the safety every single other failed MMO provides?
Of course he doesn't, no one in the history of "EVE is Dying" has ever had one shred of proof. What they have is self interest, in this case it's the self interest in being right about how bad the current game sucks so CCP will one day "see the light" and make EVE into "what it could one day be".
The fact that EVE has not only survived but thrived when so many "cater to the whims of the players" games has failed should call their world view into question, but of course, it never does. The Fact that EVE works and is fine as is Burns the hell out of them.
Quote: Meanwhile I will just point out that the last expansion in December, which added even more ways to be killed in high sec, has resulted in a boom in player numbers. This tells us that people want to fight in high sec and not be utterly safe.
You can see that, I can see that, CCP can see that, but people who can't like EVE for what it is will NEVER be able to accept any level of actual proof you offer. 30 years from now when EVE reaches is 100 millionth sub (piped directly into our brains via Sony +5 implants), people like this will still be around saying "EVE would have like 200 million more subs if!!!"
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Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor
1617
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Posted - 2013.01.17 15:12:00 -
[114] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Looking at the all time numbers, 2008-2011 saw wonderful growth. After that, there is an average decline. Even the Christmas/Winter expansion didn't make Eve see 2011 numbers. It's subtle, but it's a trend. It's a decline. B BUT NO EVE IS GETTING MOAR SUBSCRIPTIONZ! I can subscribe to a game, but if I'm jaded with what it's become, I'm not going to log in and play. Just try to cancel or wait for the subscription to wane.
2011 marked the beginning of a series of poor choices and neglectful decisions made by CCP. They've since reversed course and are improving aspects of the game that have been neglected for a while, but damage takes time to repair. Notice that the Christmas expansion has gotten us very close to early 2011 levels. Mane 614
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Whitehound
373
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Posted - 2013.01.17 15:13:00 -
[115] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:You say numbers are in decline yet CCP announce a new subscription record... Do you have a link? |
TheBlueMonkey
Don't Be a Menace That Red Alliance
349
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Posted - 2013.01.17 15:13:00 -
[116] - Quote
Mister S Burke wrote:TheBlueMonkey wrote: all there is is to following along and repeat the same 5 quests over and over again, ala wow.
I'll just go find something else to do, as depressing as that is. 5 different quests you say? What kind of game would just have the same few missions.... oh wait
That'd be why I avoid PvE as much as I can.
Although at least eve is fairly honest about how repetitive it's PvE content is. Unlike WoW where "fiends" kept telling me "it gets awesome at level x" or "raids are amazing".
So I ground my way though fetch quest, escort quest, rescue quest, kill x of y quest and kill x to get why quests from level 1-70. Stopping occasionally to do the odd instance where I had to get and kill x and then I get to go on a raid... well.. not yet, first I need to get special armor blah blah, so I go and get that.
NOW I can raid, wait... this is just an instance... no it is, we're just trudging through waves of mobs and we're on our way to kill x. This is exactly the same as every other one... and then I quit. One of the most boring experience I've had while gaming.
Loss meant nothing because when I failed I lost nothing. Other people were nothing as I had little to gain from them and nothing to lose to them.
That total lack of consequences just lead to a hollow game of repetition.
Anyway, Theme park MMO's fail because there's no way of generating enough new content to keep players distracted long enough for you to generate more new content.
Plus it necessitates power creep which just kills all the early content that you create. Go watch a WoW level 80 do the old level 60 raids solo.
I really hope that CCP don't follow the accounts advice and head this way. Pay attention to the people who know about game design, not the people who know about money. |
Corey Fumimasa
The Advent of Faith
1
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Posted - 2013.01.17 15:14:00 -
[117] - Quote
Mister S Burke wrote:baltec1 wrote:[quote=Anslo]
Meanwhile I will just point out that the last expansion in december, which added even more ways to be killed in high sec, has resulted in a boom in player numbers. This tells us that people want to fight in high sec and not be utterly safe. Wrong, I subbed in December and I am here to tell you it was in spite of the fact that some Thrasher srub suicide ganked my little ship and not because of it. I know at least 3 people who didn't sub because of that kind of BS. They uninstalled and went to another game and never looked back.
Are you saying that you just started playing Eve a couple of months ago?! Just shut up if that's the case! Your opinion is like raw bacon, or cookies made without butter and sugar, or like someone who lives under a bridge and charges a toll. WTF that like thread griefing.
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Mister S Burke
Earths Naval Space Command The Mandalorians
20
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Posted - 2013.01.17 15:14:00 -
[118] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Both the Dems and the Republicans are rushing towards the center. That makes sense. Closing highsec off from PvP is not the center. That is just the other side of "old vet" extremism.
Allowing players to accumulate massive fortunes with no risk will have a significant impact on the economy.
One of the area's that Eve is head and shoulders above every other MMO out there is the player economy.
I think this huge casual player base of grandmothers, preteen girls and retired milkmen that you keep alluding to might actually be more happy with a feelgood app than a game like Eve, regardless of PvP.
I'm not trying to argue with you here, just pointing out some observations.
What I want to know is just how big a dent that random miner gank really affects the economy. No, we don't have to cater to the angry birds players of course, but there has to be a modernized happy medium. |
NickyYo
StarHug
290
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Posted - 2013.01.17 15:14:00 -
[119] - Quote
I say its time for another mass protest in ALL trade hubs once again! .. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
1147
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 15:17:00 -
[120] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:What's good about EVE other than that the players are allowed the maximum possible freedom to interact with each other?
Many people don't want freedom, they want guaranteed positive outcomes (just like in real life lol). Most MMOs try to give them that, which is why most fail.
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