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baltec1 Bat Country 4997	Posted - 2013.01.31 18:45:00 - [241] - Quote March rabbit wrote: baltec1 wrote: We did do something about it but the high sec bears put an end to it. exactly "you did do something...". killed like 10% of botters and 90% of people while "fighting bots". Don't you think anyone forgot about those "tears" everyone were crying about? Bots don't produce it. SO once you said "tears" you show - you fight real people. It was more like like 60% bots. They were very easy to spot as they would continue mining in a pod or go grab another barge we would then pop. The tears came from the botting websites which I must say were glorious.
Vaerah Vahrokha Vahrokh Consulting 3761	Posted - 2013.01.31 18:47:00 - [242] - Quote Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: Now, I know you think the rules and practices of real life corporations apply to EVE-Online corps mainly because they both use the word 'corporation', but bear with me. Not really, I go from the opposite premise: I don't try applying RL concepts to EvE. It's CCP who sells a game being touted as "realistic economy" and as having corporations with shares, tickers, assets management and whatever. I just find that they are not delivering a clear game design pretending to mimick RL. Exactly like with Dominion they are not delivering a functional and fun sov system. Edit: it's why in a previous post I stated that CCP keeps selling goodwill and Fanfests are a motivational advertisement to keep believing in goodwill. The stated plans then either don't happen at all or only get implemented as shallow drafts. Wis? Ended up being a shallow concept preview. PI? Ended up as shallow "clickable circlets". Dust integration? Let's see IF we'll ever get something more than a dessie lighting up some pixels. Auditing \| Collateral holding and insurance \| Consulting \| PLEX for Good Charity Twitter channel
Natsett Amuinn GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1735	Posted - 2013.01.31 18:50:00 - [243] - Quote Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: I don't think the bolded part is so far from the reality. In the end you indeed do what someone else allows you to do. If you go beyond that, then you are in trouble. Your freedom has a range. That's not direct "dictating" but indirectly it still is. You want a corporation to work like a real world corp, were the board recuruites/ hires members/ employees, and pays them like a real world business. First, that is not what a CORPORATION is. Being a "corporation", or an incorporatated entity, does not say anything about what your business is or how it's run. There are INCORPORATED co-op run business. There are not for profit corporations. A corporation is nothing more than a business that is granted the legal rights. If you want to run your corporation on an employee, eimployer set up, you can do so. There are industrail corps that do that already. What I get from what you're saying is that you want ALL null corps to work that way, and that means CCP would have to make mechanics that would enforce that state on every person in null. No thank you. If I want to RP the lowly worker, and get paid by my "boss", I'll join a corp that does that. But that has NOTHING to do with being a corporation.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 7506	Posted - 2013.01.31 18:53:00 - [244] - Quote Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: Nobody, ever, answered me this tiny question: why do all play like this is a game based on guilds (a la WoW) where guildies pay the organizations, when EvE is a game based on corporations (including shares, tickers and similar stuff) where guildies are employees and employees tend to be PAID not to be taxed?. Because nullsec is a game based off resource access and extraction due to the fact secondary economy cannot occur there due to the game mechanics. Access to those resources is the only incentive a leader can offer to prospective members, and increasingly that is not worth. The alternative to offering access being taxing a person's bounties at 100% and then paying them a fixed salary. They're called 'corporations' in name but in reality function economically like lawless mining camps where people contribute in exchange for access to a gold-rich area. What you ask is like wondering why a true corporation didn't form in a series of remote farms in 13th century England. There someone explained it to you. There's something that does not convince me about this impossibility including the one alternative being to tax at 100%. I think the grunts who go there just don't have the mentality to ask for a "job alike" reward despite them being employed in a corporation. But if CCP were to implement "farmlands" and similar, those could be a reward, even if that'd really be a middle-age alike "feuds" setting more than a futuristic megacorp setting. I feel the lack of a credible futuristic setting and atmosphere is an annoying EvE shortcoming. I should not read "corp" and understand "guild" in a game of futuristic megacorps. There have been excellent sci-fi movies and books depicting (usually evil) megacorps and how they affected the commoneers and employees. In this aspect, Entropia does better. The disconnect lies in the difference between a pod pilot and a corporate serf in a planetary corporation. Vote for Malcanis for CSM8 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=192717&find=unread
fukier RISE of LEGION 768	Posted - 2013.01.31 18:54:00 - [245] - Quote Andski wrote: What are the "static ISK fountains" in nullsec? think he is talking about the moon goo... At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
Vaerah Vahrokha Vahrokh Consulting 3762	Posted - 2013.01.31 18:57:00 - [246] - Quote Natsett Amuinn wrote: There are INCORPORATED co-op run business. There are not for profit corporations. A corporation is nothing more than a business that is granted the legal rights. Not sure how this is anyway in theme with a cold, harsh universe where megacorps go so far to start bloody wars for more profit, but that's not what I wanted to push about. What I am trying to say is that in RL the "employer => employee" model works so well that it's the prominent mechanic. It's sort of an optimized model, so most go for it. If in EvE it does not work like this and the model is restricted to the few who actively choose it, it's because EvE does not give the infrastructures to let that model to prevail. Exactly like it won't give the infrastructures for you to do industry. That is, you perceive the latter while I perceive the lack of both features. Auditing \| Collateral holding and insurance \| Consulting \| PLEX for Good Charity Twitter channel
Vaerah Vahrokha Vahrokh Consulting 3762	Posted - 2013.01.31 18:58:00 - [247] - Quote Malcanis wrote: The disconnect lies in the difference between a pod pilot and a corporate serf in a planetary corporation. The disconnect is always in people, not in them being a mechanically improved biologic material. A brainwashed capsuleer will be more of a serf (immortal but still a serf) than an independent planet bound regular guy. Auditing \| Collateral holding and insurance \| Consulting \| PLEX for Good Charity Twitter channel
Natsett Amuinn GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1735	Posted - 2013.01.31 19:27:00 - [248] - Quote Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: Natsett Amuinn wrote: There are INCORPORATED co-op run business. There are not for profit corporations. A corporation is nothing more than a business that is granted the legal rights. Not sure how this is anyway in theme with a cold, harsh universe where megacorps go so far to start bloody wars for more profit, but that's not what I wanted to push about. What I am trying to say is that in RL the "employer => employee" model works so well that it's the prominent mechanic. It's sort of an optimized model, so most go for it. If in EvE it does not work like this and the model is restricted to the few who actively choose it, it's because EvE does not give the infrastructures to let that model to prevail. Exactly like it won't give the infrastructures for you to do industry. That is, you perceive the latter while I perceive the lack of both features. VV, CORPORATION says NOTHING about how a business is run or what that business is. You're using CORPORATIONS and applying it to a specific BUSINESS model. The people that run a corporation decide how THE BUSINESS is run. They may issue shares, or they may not. The CORPORATIONS in EVE are being used in their proper context. They are entities that have been granted "rights" by one of the four factions in EVE, and may or may not operate as a for profit business. Cold an harsh? The incorporation of a for profit business is considered to be morally wrong and unethical in many areas of the world. There are people fighting and dying, in small part, over this. You usually here it refered to as capitalism though, but it usually has it's roots in what a government allows a business to do. Some people actually believe it's a very bad thing to give a business legal RIGHTS. Coca-cola, the corporation, doesn't feel they have a moral or legal responcibility to not support bottlers and governments that have uniion leaders assasinated. Corporations, that do things like fraking for natural gas, are not legally bound by laws and regulations that prevent them poluting the enviroment, so they're allowed to make the drinking water wherever they work undrinkable, and kill people. Corporations, that are in the oil business, support rebel uprisings in a little country called the Central African Republic; that causes people to die. The governments that granted these corporations legal RIGHTS do nothing to stop them. I'm not sure why you think that corporations don't fit into the "cold, harsh" theme. And for the record. There's a praticular business model that, when the world suffered a recession, managed to keep chugging right along without to much serious set back. Co-ops, EMPLOYEE OWNED business, do not fit your idea of "optimized model". One could, and believe me I do, make the arguement that your employee-employer model is the LEAST optimized. It doesn't encourage harder work, it doesn't invest the employee in the companies well being, it doesn't reward the employee for improving profits. Your model is based on greed, it rewards the employer who, when large enough, doesn't need to care about their eployees, only the bottom line and how much more they can make. You're idea is what leads to things like people asking how they can avoid being a drone meatshield, who is at the beck and whim of their null overlords. We have enough of that nonsense already, and don't need mechanics that actually make that a reality in EVE. If you want to run a corporation in EVE that way, do so. You already have that ability. But stop talking about how a CORPORATION should be run, it has nothing to do with what you're saying you'd like to see.
Itis Zhellin 21	Posted - 2013.01.31 19:56:00 - [249] - Quote How about independent corp inside a big alliance, is that even possible in EVE? How about working together for a common goal but also I can keep my independence from a disturbed ceo or some other mega dramas that would not fit my visions. Let's take as example the tension between TEST and goons. So one day out of nowhere the TEST ceo sayz.. u know what.. fuk the goons we reset them. Just because I said so. And then you as a peon, like it or not, need to grab the guns and fight your brothers just to chill the ego of a megalomaniac ceo. How cool is that, how is that not being a zombie? Because in these mega alliances there is no democracy, you do whatever your ceo sayz.
Natsett Amuinn GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1735	Posted - 2013.01.31 20:19:00 - [250] - Quote Itis Zhellin wrote: How about independent corp inside a big alliance, is that even possible in EVE? How about working together for a common goal but also I can keep my independence from a disturbed ceo or some other mega dramas that would not fit my visions. Let's take as example the tension between TEST and goons. So one day out of nowhere the TEST ceo sayz.. u know what.. fuk the goons we reset them. Just because I said so. And then you as a peon, like it or not, need to grab the guns and fight your brothers just to chill the ego of a megalomaniac ceo. How cool is that, how is that not being a zombie? Because in these mega alliances there is no democracy, you do whatever your ceo sayz. You mean like an industrial corp that works within an alliance? We have corps that work with our alliance, and all they do is mine. Or how about that freighter service that is an idependent corporation, but works with a particular alliance? There's even a group in the GSF that just does booster production. Yes, it does exist. People just seem to think that "being independent" in null means being able to hold sov and not have to worry about a larger group taking it from them. An alliance is not a single entity, it's a LOT of indipendent entities. Some working together to hold space, other providing services that the space holders require.
Vaerah Vahrokha Vahrokh Consulting 3762	Posted - 2013.01.31 20:20:00 - [251] - Quote Natsett Amuinn wrote: Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: Natsett Amuinn wrote: There are INCORPORATED co-op run business. There are not for profit corporations. A corporation is nothing more than a business that is granted the legal rights. Not sure how this is anyway in theme with a cold, harsh universe where megacorps go so far to start bloody wars for more profit, but that's not what I wanted to push about. I was referring to your mention to co-op corps in the context of EvE, not to RL corps. Natsett Amuinn wrote: You're idea is what leads to things like people asking how they can avoid being a drone meatshield, who is at the beck and whim of their null overlords. We have enough of that nonsense already, and don't need mechanics that actually make that a reality in EVE. People ask how to avoid being a drone yet don't want to pour in the effort to stop being a drone. That's much an human behavior. Auditing \| Collateral holding and insurance \| Consulting \| PLEX for Good Charity Twitter channel
Natsett Amuinn GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1735	Posted - 2013.01.31 20:31:00 - [252] - Quote Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: Natsett Amuinn wrote: Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: Natsett Amuinn wrote: There are INCORPORATED co-op run business. There are not for profit corporations. A corporation is nothing more than a business that is granted the legal rights. Not sure how this is anyway in theme with a cold, harsh universe where megacorps go so far to start bloody wars for more profit, but that's not what I wanted to push about. I was referring to your mention to co-op corps in the context of EvE, not to RL corps. GoonWaffe is like a mix of co-op and employer-employee. As a line member industrialist I contribute to the greater good and am invested in the success of the corporation through my ability to make more for myself. Which is kind of the essense of a cooperative business model. At the same time there are "programs" I could participate in which would effectively put me in the employee role. These are things the the corporation subsidized because they're strategic assets that the corporation needs, an they will effectively pay me to help make those things. I could also work with one of the mining outfits that work with the GSF, and get paid by that group for the minerals I mine. I can also participate in a kind of refining program that others have set up, where I can get paid by someone else to profive refineable goods. Salvage is the same. Or I could within a freighter group and get paid by them to move peoples things around. The business model you want exists, and people are already set up and working that way. However, sinse a corporation isn't defined by the kind of business model they employ, there is no mechanic to force people to play under a specific state. EVE corporations are working in EVE, within the context of what a corporation actually is; with different corporation employing different business models.
Rellik B00n Lethal Death Squad 244	Posted - 2013.01.31 20:38:00 - [253] - Quote so perhaps like this: your personal 4 point plan (quarters) for what CCP should be working on in 2013. im tired atm so i dont want to waste mine but maybe a few bullet points could help any influential people that drop by the thread please look at my thread in F&I about stealth and camo in EvE
Nicolo da'Vicenza Air The Unthinkables 2754	Posted - 2013.01.31 20:52:00 - [254] - Quote 1: Balance industrial capacity of regions around the principle of nullsec and highsec's respective goods consumption rates (aka ship loss). Not sure if lowsec people want a developed industry though as they seem to enjoy their current pirate gameplay. 2: Ban NPC corps and remove wardec evasion. 3: Fix POSs so that every small group's (null, WH and low)'s gameplay is dramatically improved. 4: Hmm... I'd be happy with just 3.
Natsett Amuinn GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1735	Posted - 2013.01.31 21:02:00 - [255] - Quote Rellik B00n wrote: so perhaps like this: your personal 4 point plan (quarters) for what CCP should be working on in 2013. im tired atm so i dont want to waste mine but maybe a few bullet points could help any influential people that drop by the thread Give high sec coroporations the ability to control stations in all .7-.5 systems so that they can set tax and manufacturing rates, as well as the focus of the station. Player corporation should control the flow of T2 products, and be able to tax NPC corp members. I even have a post in the featrues and ideas forums about focusing on high sec industrial corporations. I don't CCP to "nerf" high sec, I want them to put high sec in the hands of the people who leave the NPC corps.
Mistah Ewedynao Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 383	Posted - 2013.01.31 23:43:00 - [256] - Quote I would like Wardecs fixed so it costs a large corporation MUCH more than it does now for a War Dec. Stop the purely for Lulz wardecs. Please CCP fix POS's. Modernize, modularize and streamline invention and copying. A decent refinery array for the Null and WH folks would be nice. Quit stealth nerfing high sec exploration. You call it a profession, well it's a pretty poorly paying one. Weakly skilled players should not be able to even find the decent radars and Grav sites. Instead you make the cheap mag sites the hardest to find. Wrong! [] Some new T3 stuff would be nice also. Nerf Goons* Nuke em from orbit....it's the only way to be sure.
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3352	Posted - 2013.02.01 04:13:00 - [257] - Quote Natsett Amuinn wrote: Rellik B00n wrote: so perhaps like this: your personal 4 point plan (quarters) for what CCP should be working on in 2013. im tired atm so i dont want to waste mine but maybe a few bullet points could help any influential people that drop by the thread Give high sec coroporations the ability to control stations in all .7-.5 systems so that they can set tax and manufacturing rates, as well as the focus of the station. Player corporation should control the flow of T2 products, and be able to tax NPC corp members. I even have a post in the featrues and ideas forums about focusing on high sec industrial corporations. I don't CCP to "nerf" high sec, I want them to put high sec in the hands of the people who leave the NPC corps. I see where you're going with this. We, the goons, are not in NPC corps. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 7528	Posted - 2013.02.01 07:38:00 - [258] - Quote Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: Malcanis wrote: The disconnect lies in the difference between a pod pilot and a corporate serf in a planetary corporation. The disconnect is always in people, not in them being a mechanically improved biologic material. A brainwashed capsuleer will be more of a serf (immortal but still a serf) than an independent planet bound regular guy. It's virtually impossible to construct a RL-style emplpoyer/employee relationship in EVE, because the barrier to quitting a job and either setting up on one's own or joining another group is so low. If I quit my job, I can't just go and shoot pirates for government bounty to sustain my living costs, nor are there vast, renewing mineral deposits lying around for whoever wishes to mine them. The economic environment in EVE is so fundamentally different to a RL modern industrial economy that even such a moon-calf concept as Objectivism works as an economic theory here, ffs! There are no children, no disabled, no involuntary unemployment, you can always parlay effort into income, government taxes are virtually non-existent. etc etc. "Corps" in EVE are more like RL partnerships than employer/employee models. But what they're most of all like in CCPs Randian utopia where everyone is their own personal warship, is organised crime. Vote for Malcanis for CSM8 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=192717&find=unread
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 7528	Posted - 2013.02.01 07:41:00 - [259] - Quote Mistah Ewedynao wrote: I would like Wardecs fixed so it costs a large corporation MUCH more than it does now for a War Dec. Stop the purely for Lulz wardecs. Presumably you also advocate a similarly increased penalty for corps which refuse to fight or which simply reform under a new name to evade the wardec. If you're asking the aggressor to pay a significant investment to declare a war, then the defenders must also have a similar investment at stake. Vote for Malcanis for CSM8 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=192717&find=unread
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 7530	Posted - 2013.02.01 09:00:00 - [260] - Quote Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: Malcanis wrote: Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: baltec1 wrote: We did do something about it but the high sec bears put an end to it. Are you saying there won't be a new Hulkageddon any more? Nothing stopping you sponsoring another one if you want to. I hear costs have gone up, rather a lot though. A quick google would reveal I am advocating (and profiting a lot) from Hulkageddons and I'd be glad to contribute to one... Contact Helicity Boson and make it happen then. Vote for Malcanis for CSM8 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=192717&find=unread
March rabbit Aliastra 516	Posted - 2013.02.01 09:06:00 - [261] - Quote Natsett Amuinn wrote: March rabbit wrote: baltec1 wrote: We did do something about it but the high sec bears put an end to it. exactly "you did do something...". killed like 10% of botters and 90% of people while "fighting bots". Don't you think anyone forgot about those "tears" everyone were crying about? Bots don't produce it. SO once you said "tears" you show - you fight real people. The only person you can blame is yourself. You don't fit to prevent the gank and then mine AFK. nice to see NPC logic from "elite of Eve" "i only do what i'm programmed to do. i made to warp, lock and shoot. It's your fault if my job succeded or not". Well. Nothing new here. i always say "standard suicide-ganker is just improved version of NPC"
March rabbit Aliastra 516	Posted - 2013.02.01 09:09:00 - [262] - Quote baltec1 wrote: March rabbit wrote: baltec1 wrote: We did do something about it but the high sec bears put an end to it. exactly "you did do something...". killed like 10% of botters and 90% of people while "fighting bots". Don't you think anyone forgot about those "tears" everyone were crying about? Bots don't produce it. SO once you said "tears" you show - you fight real people. It was more like like 60% bots. They were very easy to spot as they would continue mining in a pod or go grab another barge we would then pop. The tears came from the botting websites which I must say were glorious. even with such easy spotting you managed to kill 40% of real players? such a great job! I guess everyone will agree to any medical operation with such conditions.... you really don't see anything wrong here?
Vaerah Vahrokha Vahrokh Consulting 3764	Posted - 2013.02.01 10:53:00 - [263] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Contact Helicity Boson and make it happen then. Helicity's playing GW2 (too) and twitted this: @enterprise_psi @CCPGames yeah well, I'm a bit tired of doing their job for them at the expensive of my free time, if you know what i mean That does not bode well... Auditing \| Collateral holding and insurance \| Consulting \| PLEX for Good Charity Twitter channel
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 7530	Posted - 2013.02.01 11:28:00 - [264] - Quote Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: Malcanis wrote: Contact Helicity Boson and make it happen then. Helicity's playing GW2 (too) and twitted this: @enterprise_psi @CCPGames yeah well, I'm a bit tired of doing their job for them at the expensive of my free time, if you know what i mean That does not bode well... OK well make it happen by yourself then. Vote for Malcanis for CSM8 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=192717&find=unread
Vaerah Vahrokha Vahrokh Consulting 3764	Posted - 2013.02.01 12:21:00 - [265] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: Malcanis wrote: Contact Helicity Boson and make it happen then. Helicity's playing GW2 (too) and twitted this: @enterprise_psi @CCPGames yeah well, I'm a bit tired of doing their job for them at the expensive of my free time, if you know what i mean That does not bode well... OK well make it happen by yourself then. Unlikely, for several reasons: 1) I have to move overseas (on an island far away ) my whole home starting Feb 15-20. I won't even have internet for who knows how long. 2) I don't have the connections with those able to execute it, much less the RL time to follow the event. 3) I could sponsor it alone but in that case I would end up spending more than I earn. I am not doing it for the giggles, even if I fully understand the goodness of creating content bringing in the giggles. Auditing \| Collateral holding and insurance \| Consulting \| PLEX for Good Charity Twitter channel
Sura Sadiva Entropic Tactical Crew 221	Posted - 2013.02.01 13:12:00 - [266] - Quote Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: Taking Horus into your alliance, or an alliance leader that engages in RMT (Silent Dodger of RA) is a problem that tends to correct itself. It become relevant when this people use - how did you define yourself? - "the most relevant player driven organization in an MMO" - for their RL business. And hsould be relevant for you guys in the first place, cause you and your gameplay are the main victims of this. And while I agree with you that this shouldn't be an argument in a topic related to industry in null sec. Problem is when you start to push as a organized lobby (in some case threating of harrassment and demanding to dictate everyone's gameplay to the whole community and to CCP as well) have to expect people to see and adress everything related to this lobby. Even the best suggestions will be clouded by considerations like "oh wait, these are those people who had their alliance leader banned for RTM" "this is that group caught for that massive exploit abuse" and so on. You can ignore the opinions and feeling the rest of EVE community have toward you, but it's not wise becauses: CCP cannot ignore it. Are wrong generalization, sure. But generalizatiopn happens cause you act as a fancy lobby. Go figure when the suggestions look wrong. Becuase someone should explain how and why the request "make (also) the the T2 manifacturing bettetr in respect of the rest of EVE" is something that could improve/enhance for anyone except for the minority lobby pushing for it. Apocrypya expansion provided new game opportunities and options for a large part of EVE players, was trasversal. Was the most successful EVE expansion and CCP statetd clearly that's the development model they're following. So keep lobbying for Dominion 2 is stupid. If one want a specific need to be satisfated then is more intelligent trying to integrate it with a more general and trasversal implementations.
Natsett Amuinn GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1740	Posted - 2013.02.01 13:49:00 - [267] - Quote March rabbit wrote: Natsett Amuinn wrote: March rabbit wrote: baltec1 wrote: We did do something about it but the high sec bears put an end to it. exactly "you did do something...". killed like 10% of botters and 90% of people while "fighting bots". Don't you think anyone forgot about those "tears" everyone were crying about? Bots don't produce it. SO once you said "tears" you show - you fight real people. The only person you can blame is yourself. You don't fit to prevent the gank and then mine AFK. nice to see NPC logic from "elite of Eve" "i only do what i'm programmed to do. i made to warp, lock and shoot. It's only your fault if my job succeded". Well. Nothing new here. i always say "standard suicide-ganker is just improved version of NPC" I don't pvp. You really suffered through reading the posts in this thread huh? I've been pretty clear about being a dedicated industrialist. Keep on winning bot.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 7532	Posted - 2013.02.01 13:51:00 - [268] - Quote Stereotyping by the privileged class Not a big surprise Vote for Malcanis for CSM8 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=192717&find=unread
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 1258	Posted - 2013.02.01 13:55:00 - [269] - Quote Natsett Amuinn wrote: I don't pvp. Neither do I most nights, i mostly PvSSARBW (Player vs Serps, Sanshas, Angels, Rogue Drone, Blood Raiders or Whoever) lol. And it doesn't matter to them at all. ANY change to their advantages (unfair or not) is wrong and evil, so YOU must be wrong and evil and a PvPr who "just hates the way I play the game". It has to be "personal", because there is no way you could possibly disagree with anything someone elses wants, because everyone is the same and wants the same things I do
Thutmose I Paxton Industries Gentlemen's Agreement 10	Posted - 2013.02.01 14:15:00 - [270] - Quote Natsett Amuinn wrote: March rabbit wrote: Natsett Amuinn wrote: March rabbit wrote: baltec1 wrote: We did do something about it but the high sec bears put an end to it. exactly "you did do something...". killed like 10% of botters and 90% of people while "fighting bots". Don't you think anyone forgot about those "tears" everyone were crying about? Bots don't produce it. SO once you said "tears" you show - you fight real people. The only person you can blame is yourself. You don't fit to prevent the gank and then mine AFK. nice to see NPC logic from "elite of Eve" "i only do what i'm programmed to do. i made to warp, lock and shoot. It's only your fault if my job succeded". Well. Nothing new here. i always say "standard suicide-ganker is just improved version of NPC" I don't pvp. You really suffered through reading the posts in this thread huh? I've been pretty clear about being a dedicated industrialist. Keep on winning bot. From what I understood from what you say, you PvP quite a lot, You are a player, and you compete with the other players who sell things in VFK, doesn't competition between players count as PvP?

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