Im curious about this.

http://eve.1019.net/pos/?ct=00&mod=03030303031N1N1N1N1N1O1O1O1O1O1P1P1P1P1P0V0V0V0V0W0W0W0W0U0U&off=

That has more production slots than a hisec station 5x, they can be traded around if you want to make more and it can be tanked better without losing as much production as a station.
And as there are more moons than stations well why are you complaining?
Aside from logistics but that is separate from your claim.

and you are the fast talking promoter who says he can't quite afford to pay the band because of higher than expected costs...


As you drive off in your Ferrari.

I'll let you in on a secret.

It's just a body mod, it's really a trans am under the hood.

A Trans Am?!?! Lucky bastard.

Mine is a 4 cylinder Fiero

in fairness there are some slightly more reasonable suggestions over the last few pages. hundreds of millions to use station services is not one of them hehe! Jobs tied to standings might be worthwhile.


in the midst of all this lets not forget: what is the nature of null sec?

null is (was) the wild west. The frontier land. The edge of the galaxy.

Does it not make sense then in all honesty that the best place to trade is within the walls of the fortresses built by our NPC overlords in high sec?

they are established, they have developed police and navies.

In that light in makes complete sense that the goods flow in to empire then flow back out.

In fact Im under the impression that this (pre-jump freight) was part of the deal - living in null requires logistical nouse. Id like to see the days of goods convoys and escorts back - at least its going to produce some fights.


related to null being the wild west perhaps CCP could cement some of the existing infrastructure. Some of those null stations have been there a long, long time. Maybe give a bonus based on how long the station has been 'stable' and add extra slots based on this? IDK, just throwing stuff out there.

null is (was) the wild west. The frontier land. The edge of the galaxy.

Does it not make sense then in all honesty that the best place to trade is within the walls of the fortresses built by our NPC overlords in high sec?

they are established, they have developed police and navies.

In fact Im under the impression that this (pre-jump freight) was part of the deal - living in null requires logistical nouse. Id like to see the days of goods convoys and escorts back - at least its going to produce some fights.

related to null being the wild west perhaps CCP could cement some of the existing infrastructure. Some of those null stations have been there a long, long time. Maybe give a bonus based on how long the station has been 'stable' and add extra slots based on this? IDK, just throwing stuff out there.

It also costs around 300 mil every 21 days to run a large POS whether you use it or not . Far cheaper to use high sec and just JF it to where we need it.

See now that is a better argument than saying you cant match production in high (as disclosure I ran a large minmatar pos in Namaili and made my first billion that way) you cant make as much profit as a hisec station per item but you can make more profit through sheer volume.

As for the wardeccing and all, I laugh as you can shove the pos in a back water system and work there.
Probably safer than having to deal with the war dec and take down in hisec.

Whatever point is you can build as much in null as in hi, you just find it less risky to riskless to do so in hi.

Does it not make sense then in all honesty that the best place to trade is within the walls of the fortresses built by our NPC overlords in high sec?

See now that is a better argument than saying you cant match production in high (as disclosure I ran a large minmatar pos in Namaili and made my first billion that way) you cant make as much profit as a hisec station per item but you can make more profit through sheer volume.

As for the wardeccing and all, I laugh as you can shove the pos in a back water system and work there.
Probably safer than having to deal with the war dec and take down in hisec.

Whatever point is you can build as much in null as in hi, you just find it less risky to riskless to do so in hi.

No we find that it is far cheaper to run industry jobs in high sec as it is damn near free. Even when you factor in fuel costs you are paying a fraction of the costs you face doing the same job in null sec.

Which is what I said.
You CAN do industry easily in null, you just would rather not face the risk of doing so.

ability != superior

See now that is a better argument than saying you cant match production in high (as disclosure I ran a large minmatar pos in Namaili and made my first billion that way) you cant make as much profit as a hisec station per item but you can make more profit through sheer volume.

As for the wardeccing and all, I laugh as you can shove the pos in a back water system and work there.
Probably safer than having to deal with the war dec and take down in hisec.

Whatever point is you can build as much in null as in hi, you just find it less risky to riskless to do so in hi.

See now that is a better argument than saying you cant match production in high (as disclosure I ran a large minmatar pos in Namaili and made my first billion that way) you cant make as much profit as a hisec station per item but you can make more profit through sheer volume.

As for the wardeccing and all, I laugh as you can shove the pos in a back water system and work there.
Probably safer than having to deal with the war dec and take down in hisec.

Whatever point is you can build as much in null as in hi, you just find it less risky to riskless to do so in hi.

Oh so you wrote "If I didn't know any better" because you read it in a book or something.
I guess that "summer of rage" was actually over nothing and CCP laid of 20% of its success for no reason because according to "Captain Tardbar" CCP was in a really successful financial state at the time. You see he's got this link to "vgchartz.com" where thanks largely to Chinese server growth EVE subs topped 450k - what a relief, Hilmar apologized to the playerbase for nothing!

Great post.

The inhabitants of 0.0 aren't ragtag small gangs of uncivilized explorers. They are standing armies numbering in the thousands that are not only the largest player entities in EVE Online, but the most regimented and coordinated gaming 'clans' of any MMO in existence period.

But that can't happen if highsec industry is in its current state, with its effectively unlimited (able to supply all regions of space effortlessly), free and 99.95% efficient industrial base. Incentivizing industry in a region is impossible when there's a risk-free, cost-free alternative with unlimited capacity. If there was a way of solving null's problems without touching upon highsec whatsoever, I would be wholly for it. So I advocate a sensible balancing where the goal is buff nullsec industry to the point where people living in 0.0 will be able to supply themselves, while reducing highsec capacity (not 'increasing cost') to the poiint where it will still be able to support its own needs but not be able to effortlessly supply all of New Eden's material consumption.

Fine, I could buy your vision of null. But who say have to be economically indpendnets. NO enthity in a game like EVE have to be indipendent, is not healthy for the gameplay. EVE is based just on the fact that all his ocmponents in some way interact and condition one each other, people have to move, trade, interacct, share their gameplay, events happening in 0.0 have to affect high sec, directly or indirectly and vice versa.

Pushing to have EVE universe splitted in totally indipendent areas is the dead for EVE... then why do not split on different servers??

Demanding a 100% economically indipendent null is equivalent to demanding high sec as indipendent safe area. And equally disruptive for the sandbox.

This is not relevant and neither true.

Fine, I could buy your vision of null. But who say have to be economically indpendnets. NO enthity in a game like EVE have to be indipendent, is not healthy for the gameplay. EVE is based just on the fact that all his ocmponents in some way interact and condition one each other, people have to move, trade, interacct, share their gameplay, events happening in 0.0 have to affect high sec, directly or indirectly and vice versa.

Pushing to have EVE universe splitted in totally indipendent areas is the dead for EVE... then why do not split on different servers??

Demanding a 100% economically indipendent null is equivalent to demanding high sec as indipendent safe area. And equally disruptive for the sandbox.

Every null builder in this thread has said they have a high sec alt building for them, and you guys keep telling us everything is fine.

Read that last bit again!

Every null builder in this thread has said they have a high sec alt building for them, and you guys keep telling us everything is fine.

Read that last bit again!

working as intended?

T2 keeps coming up in most of your posts. You say it's wrong that null has to depend on high sec for T2 manufacturing.

Well then I say it's wrong that Empire has to depend on null for the materials to manufacture T2 components.

Do you want to leave us any crumbs at all? Seriously.

I honestly never thought i'd be agreeing with so many goonies in a single thread....

working as intended?

T2 keeps coming up in most of your posts. You say it's wrong that null has to depend on high sec for T2 manufacturing.

Well then I say it's wrong that Empire has to depend on null for the materials to manufacture T2 components.

Do you want to leave us any crumbs at all? Seriously.

You going to complain about how datacores got moved to lowsec with Faction Warfare?