The thought that some troll can spend his 14-day trial and be up to par with seasoned vets who spent over a month skilling is just atrocious.

Ok. some punk who pays his first $19.99. $20 for an Orca.. Who wouldn't have paid 10 times that to get the skill time back?

However I think its silly the Ittty V is so quick to train for now, not cause of others who have trained for it but rather because it pretty much obsoletes most every other T1 industrial

It'll get a rebalance, so nothing to worry about.

Believe it or not, ships tend to have hull bonuses for the skills! This means that while you can fly an Iteron V with Gallente Industrial I, you'll still want to train that skill up to get more cargo space (and speed, hurrr) out of it.

What's the problem?

Ok. some punk who pays his first $19.99. $20 for an Orca.. Who wouldn't have paid 10 times that to get the skill time back?

In the upcoming expansion, there are some serious issues that can only be reconciled with free skillpoints or PLEX.

The 2 big ones.. Iteron V is/was 24d to skill for. It will be reduced to 33 minutes.. MINUTES! That's brand new noob, to ITTY V in THIRTY THREE MINUTES! This has the value of nearly an entire month of game time.

Second, the Orca is going from 40+d down to 17 days. This is unacceptable. The thought that some troll can spend his 14-day trial and be up to par with seasoned vets who spent over a month skilling is just atrocious.

WTF is this.. World of Warcraft?

In the upcoming expansion, there are some serious issues that can only be reconciled with free skillpoints or PLEX.

The 2 big ones.. Iteron V is/was 24d to skill for. It will be reduced to 33 minutes.. MINUTES! That's brand new noob, to ITTY V in THIRTY THREE MINUTES! This has the value of nearly an entire month of game time.

Second, the Orca is going from 40+d down to 17 days. This is unacceptable. The thought that some troll can spend his 14-day trial and be up to par with seasoned vets who spent over a month skilling is just atrocious.

WTF is this.. World of Warcraft?

Oh yeah I'm sure it will eventually but for the time being it creates a bit of an imbalance

In the upcoming expansion, there are some serious issues that can only be reconciled with free skillpoints or PLEX.

The 2 big ones.. Iteron V is/was 24d to skill for. It will be reduced to 33 minutes.. MINUTES! That's brand new noob, to ITTY V in THIRTY THREE MINUTES! This has the value of nearly an entire month of game time.

Second, the Orca is going from 40+d down to 17 days. This is unacceptable. The thought that some troll can spend his 14-day trial and be up to par with seasoned vets who spent over a month skilling is just atrocious.

WTF is this.. World of Warcraft?

This is unacceptable!

Inigo Montoya: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

In the upcoming expansion, there are some serious issues that can only be reconciled with free skillpoints or PLEX.

The 2 big ones.. Iteron V is/was 24d to skill for. It will be reduced to 33 minutes.. MINUTES! That's brand new noob, to ITTY V in THIRTY THREE MINUTES! This has the value of nearly an entire month of game time.

Second, the Orca is going from 40+d down to 17 days. This is unacceptable. The thought that some troll can spend his 14-day trial and be up to par with seasoned vets who spent over a month skilling is just atrocious.

WTF is this.. World of Warcraft?

WTF is this.. World of Warcraft?

Where can i find this glorious information which has caused such tears?

Industrials

All ship skill requirements reduced from 1-5 to 1. We want to overhaul Industrials roles as part of the Tiericide initiative and this is the first step in that direction. Watch out for more details when they are ready for player feedback.
Racial Frigate skill requirement removed from the Industrial skill

In the upcoming expansion, there are some serious issues that can only be reconciled with free skillpoints or PLEX.

The 2 big ones.. Iteron V is/was 24d to skill for. It will be reduced to 33 minutes.. MINUTES! That's brand new noob, to ITTY V in THIRTY THREE MINUTES! This has the value of nearly an entire month of game time.

Second, the Orca is going from 40+d down to 17 days. This is unacceptable. The thought that some troll can spend his 14-day trial and be up to par with seasoned vets who spent over a month skilling is just atrocious.

WTF is this.. World of Warcraft?

Do you think they'll take the 1-4s out of the game?

... 14-day trial and be up to par with seasoned vets who spent over a month skilling ...

e: although you do wonder how you can make five different industrials perform five different roles. going from 'light with smallish cargo space' to 'slow with tons of cargo' over five ships will mean only two are used - the smallest and the biggest. there'll be a 'tanky' one, no doubt about that, but that leaves two more ships to find roles for?

WTF is this.. World of Warcraft?

In the upcoming expansion, there are some serious issues that can only be reconciled with free skillpoints or PLEX.

The 2 big ones.. Iteron V is/was 24d to skill for. It will be reduced to 33 minutes.. MINUTES! That's brand new noob, to ITTY V in THIRTY THREE MINUTES! This has the value of nearly an entire month of game time.

Second, the Orca is going from 40+d down to 17 days. This is unacceptable. The thought that some troll can spend his 14-day trial and be up to par with seasoned vets who spent over a month skilling is just atrocious.

WTF is this.. World of Warcraft?

Infact, Itty Vs are gonna go up demand wise :P

Just think of it as more clueless people in pricey ships. You can just tell that a "noob" will skip all industrials and just go straight to Itty V, he will then fill it with ALL his assets and autopilot somewhere, probably lowsec. Or you know....he'll mine in it.

Why do I have the feeling my clone cost is going to skyrocket when those skill changes hit?

Ok. some punk who pays his first $19.99. $20 for an Orca.. Who wouldn't have paid 10 times that to get the skill time back?

Oh holy **** a n00b with **** fitting skills and no real idea how to play the game might get into an Orca in less time than it took me!

reckon the new itty v's going to move like a cow

and a dead cow at that

e: although you do wonder how you can make five different industrials perform five different roles. going from 'light with smallish cargo space' to 'slow with tons of cargo' over five ships will mean only two are used - the smallest and the biggest. there'll be a 'tanky' one, no doubt about that, but that leaves two more ships to find roles for?

Apparently I no longer need to play at all, because CCP harvests tears for me.

That's a least 1 more type of ship than the ones flown currently.

I guess the bigger question is, since one race has 5, and others 2 industrials;

Is CCP going to give all races 5 industrials and try to build roles for all of them, or are we going to see the removal of ships for the first time in EVE?

All the ranting....
Man you maybe able to sit in an iteron V with skill at 1 but bonuses of the vessel still go up with skill level...
relax

/if/ all they do is play with bay sizes, speeds and so on, there will be a limited number of ships flown.

However, they have other options.

Optimize one for tractor beam usage, and give it an ore bay. Now you have a mini orca (cheaper, doesn't move like such a pig. Hopefully they'll play with bay sizes a bit too)

Give one a fitting service.

and so on.

I think people are missing the positives...

17 day old char flying around in an Orca during a war. Yes you get old players doing that to but now there will be a lot more.

reckon the new itty v's going to move like a cow

and a dead cow at that

e: although you do wonder how you can make five different industrials perform five different roles. going from 'light with smallish cargo space' to 'slow with tons of cargo' over five ships will mean only two are used - the smallest and the biggest. there'll be a 'tanky' one, no doubt about that, but that leaves two more ships to find roles for?

I don't think anyone is complaining about a noob being able to fly the Orca. What people are complaining about here is their investment in training time being wasted by CCP. The fact that it took the better part of 2mos to train is time we can never get back. That's real time. Frankly, I would like to reallocate that training time since it means every new toon can now spend almost 2 mos training something else.

How many players out there wouldn't buy SP if it was MTable? SP is valuable given the amount of time is require to fly some of these ships, including the Orca. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect CCP to compensate players with SP, even discounted. I've got 2 toons that fly the Orca. That's a lot of invested time that could have been spent training other things. I would like to be compensated.

There's been times I've needed to haul X amount of cargo and just downsized to the right Iteron size to just about do it in one trip, but with better align time than the Itty V. Same could apply here.

It'll get a rebalance, so nothing to worry about.

yeah in a years time whan 10000 noobs have itty v skills .... reskilling is pathetic it changes the core game and people who trained for months are now majorly ****** off ... another insult in my opinion.

its sort of dumb to have iterons i-v with the same skill requirements as each model is strictly better in nearly every case than the one before, so you basically just eliminated the point of four of the five

i suppose we'll see what happens

They might, or they might not. Depends what "tiercide" has in store for them.

It didn't really drive demand for the Hulk when they did it to barges/exhumers

I'd imagine that they would have varying ship/skill bonuses in the works as to not make the previous models completely useless.

I basically have my doubts there's five interesting sets of bonuses or roles for a single race's t1 haulers

I don't think anyone is complaining about a noob being able to fly the Orca. What people are complaining about here is their investment in training time being wasted by CCP. The fact that it took the better part of 2mos to train is time we can never get back. That's real time. Frankly, I would like to reallocate that training time since it means every new toon can now spend almost 2 mos training something else.

How many players out there wouldn't buy SP if it was MTable? SP is valuable given the amount of time is require to fly some of these ships, including the Orca. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect CCP to compensate players with SP, even discounted. I've got 2 toons that fly the Orca. That's a lot of invested time that could have been spent training other things. I would like to be compensated.

And I have a nice well researched iteron V BPO.

I basically have my doubts there's five interesting sets of bonuses or roles for a single race's t1 haulers

Yes, but... if/when tiericide changes the 5 Iterons to just 2 or 3 role based Iterons, your BPO may be changed to an "unpopular/useless" version of the tiericide'd Iterons.

I am almost finished with my Orca training, 6 more days. When I get it I do not plan to use it much for mining. So come Tuesday I will have an opportunity loss associated with training Mining Barge V.

My BPO's for Itty 1-4 are now worthless? (j/k, I don't have any BPOs)

because you understood the very simple system the first time it was announced, and trained destroyers and BCs to V, all racial frigs to IV, and all racial cruisers to III?

as did every other player with more than two brain cells and was interested in free sp/saving themselves some time at some point in the future?

reckon the new itty v's going to move like a cow

and a dead cow at that

e: although you do wonder how you can make five different industrials perform five different roles. going from 'light with smallish cargo space' to 'slow with tons of cargo' over five ships will mean only two are used - the smallest and the biggest. there'll be a 'tanky' one, no doubt about that, but that leaves two more ships to find roles for?

I read somewhere (can't remember where) the Itty 2 and 4 would be taken out, and the other 3 "rebalanced"

Or something. Maybe.

@ OP: you're being hysterical. Stahp.

Almost wrong, I already had some but my Eve goal was to be able to fly everything sub cap, therefore I do have all races frigate at 5, destroyers 5, all cruisers 5, battlecruisers 5 and all T2 version from those at least at 3 or 4, BS in between 3 and 5 (all BS 5 is a fckin pain in the ass)

So, while I'm very happy this change profits to all newbies and lower skill players, and believe me I really do like this, I can't say to my self I can't fly anymore T2 frigates/destroyers with my main or the clone cost will always be higher enough I can buy whatever battlecruiser hull with that isk.

I'm not complaining I loose my pods often (null fights, and specially large fights always end with "squish" pod sound), but I do complain the higher SP i get for my loyalty as customer, the more I'm penalized for doing so and feel I'm pushed to not see any further than T1 BC training, which is complete non sense from my point of view.
Please notice I'm not asking to pay less than news or whatever Sp amount someone might have, I'm only arguing this POD cost is opposed to the idea of training and move forward to higher hulls and combat types.

Some might actually argue against and spit with usual rabble, but this is clearly not good on the long term because not everyone has patience to wait for the lower SP alt able to properly fly something, or willing to spend time farming rabbits to buy a lower SP character. It's not fun, brings nothing valuable as gaming experience but rather negative on top of the already far many negative points just by login to Eve server.

Get over yourself. Back in 2003 people mined in imicus for a week to buy a thorax.

[quote=Washichu May] If an itty 5 is worth a PLEX I demand like 500 of them for all the stuff I went through for starting before the OP.

or don't demand nothing and laugh at the OP.

it's healthier.

Get over yourself. Back in 2003 people mined in imicus for a week to buy a thorax.

If you want to be a cockblocker for new people, maybe you should be pushed back into that paradigm and make ISK old-school way.

With the skill enchantments and rebalance on all Itty ships, means a noob will probby need a mark 5 at level 1 to haul what a mark 1 or 2 will haul at level 4 and 5. The noobs will have to pay more up front just to be useful half as a OG in the cheapest ship.

Get over yourself. Back in 2003 people mined in imicus for a week to buy a thorax.

If you want to be a cockblocker for new people, maybe you should be pushed back into that paradigm and make ISK old-school way.

Has CCP ever let you down before? I think NOT!

Or I could say it sarcastically and be doing both at once. The point I was trying to make is that anyone who has been around long enough to see an expansion come out had it worse than a post expansion newbie. If CCP starts compensating people for that they'll have to compensate almost everyone every time an expansion comes out.

Starts Building and stockpillig Iteron V's......

# The CPU will be cut down significantly. As some of you know, T1 industrials have more CPU than they know what to do with, which has led to Industrials becoming ECM boats and other somewhat bizarro fittings. From what I remember, this was part of some old plan of CCP's to give Industrials a secondary role involving some CPU-intensive module that I can't remember the name of right now.

OP went about this post in the wrong way.

He has a point tho.

I used to be proud that I had 130m SP... after this patch that isnt going to mean much!

Freighter can be flown within a week of signing up! Capital ships only needing BS lvl 4?!

CCP please give us a ship that is massive esoteric then! I want a ship that needs all racial Cruiser, BC and BS to lvl 5!!

In the upcoming expansion, there are some serious issues that can only be reconciled with free skillpoints or PLEX.

The 2 big ones.. Iteron V is/was 24d to skill for. It will be reduced to 33 minutes.. MINUTES! That's brand new noob, to ITTY V in THIRTY THREE MINUTES! This has the value of nearly an entire month of game time.

Second, the Orca is going from 40+d down to 17 days. This is unacceptable. The thought that some troll can spend his 14-day trial and be up to par with seasoned vets who spent over a month skilling is just atrocious.

WTF is this.. World of Warcraft?

The point is, that skilling costs time, time costs plex, plex costs money

so considering the fact, that Orca, which supposed to be capital ship, can be trained in two weeks, instead of 1 and half month ... itty5 is from almost one month to 33m ... and so on

in my eyes I lost lots of money and I am not ok with it

RubyPorto, point is that I could use this time to skill something other, this is a big thing ... lets say I wanted to have an orca just for hauling, cause boosting is provided by other players ... can you see the diference?

ability to fly capital ship in few weeks as they are planning it, thats just a fail

People in this thread are misunderstanding the changes to a whole new level. I would have thought that you people would actually try and read and understand the proposed changes before going ape **** over them.

These skill changes can literally only be viewed as a good thing. These n00bs your talking about who will be able to get in an Itty in 33 minutes will have such **** skills that their Itty might as well be a different ship to yours. You are not losing any skill training time, all those skills you skilled up have uses and functions and do stuff.. these newbs your talking about wont have these skills. I don't really see what your problem is.

This change has been a long time overdo and frankly there are a lot of people who will be very very happy about them. So examine your imaginary problems, realise they are imaginary, and then stop complaining.

RubyPorto, point is that I could use this time to skill something other, this is a big thing ... lets say I wanted to have an orca just for hauling, cause boosting is provided by other players ... can you see the diference?

ability to fly capital ship in few weeks as they are planning it, thats just a fail

consider the following: a player trains minmatar industrial to IV or V to get ~27k m3 cargo space in a mammoth. a new player comes along and trains gallente industrial to I and gets >30k (iirc) cargo space.

that's probably why people are upset, to be blunt.

consider the following: a player trains minmatar industrial to IV or V to get ~27k m3 cargo space in a mammoth. a new player comes along and trains gallente industrial to I and gets >30k (iirc) cargo space.

that's probably why people are upset, to be blunt.

Consider the following:


That's probably why I no longer believe in the myth of the Literate EVE playerbase.

A couple of points.

- From what source are you getting the fact that their cargo space is getting buffed?
- If they are getting buffed, and someone with Indy 1 now gets more than the others did before with max skills, then the people with max skills will be getting a massive massive buff to the size of their cargohold. So what they hell are they complaining for?

consider the following: a player trains minmatar industrial to IV or V to get ~27k m3 cargo space in a mammoth. a new player comes along and trains gallente industrial to I and gets >30k (iirc) cargo space.

that's probably why people are upset, to be blunt.

what are you talking about?
30k is what the itty V will have at industrial I with cargo modules, that's not a buff that's just what it is.
again, they aren't getting buffed, that's just what it is.

system on its own was working, to be honest I can see no reason to change it ...

in that case there is no need for Itty1-4 (except of building t2 ships) and no, its wasting of my time, my skilling queue and irritating in general ... and ccp is trying to be populist to get more new players with flying ships fast

Mihnea Tepes wrote:
system on its own was working, to be honest I can see no reason to change it ...

Question is, instead of trying to shoehorn industrials, transport ships, freighters and jump freighters into being same same, but different, for 4 races - why not bite the bullet, do it right, and condense them into ORE ( or another appropriate faction, like InterBus ) ships?

Question is, instead of trying to shoehorn industrials, transport ships, freighters and jump freighters into being same same, but different, for 4 races - why not bite the bullet, do it right, and condense them into ORE ( or another appropriate faction, like InterBus ) ships?

system on its own was working, to be honest I can see no reason to change it ...

in that case there is no need for Itty1-4 (except of building t2 ships) and no, its wasting of my time, my skilling queue and irritating in general ... and ccp is trying to be populist to get more new players with flying ships fast

The thing that really annoys me is that I spent a good amount of time training up the mining barge skill for my orca alt which I will never and have never had any need for except for using the orca. I think CCP should reimburse the mining barge skill, if you still want it then you can train it back up with the free SP.

But the point you fail miserably to understand is this is mining barge V. MINING BARGE V! Whenever I see that heresy on my character sheet I want to terminate the character. Dam CCP making me train such a disgraceful skill to get to an orca and then turning on us like this.

But the point you fail miserably to understand is this is mining barge V. MINING BARGE V! Whenever I see that heresy on my character sheet I want to terminate the character. Dam CCP making me train such a disgraceful skill to get to an orca and then turning on us like this.

You just don't understand do you. *shakes head*

Although that is a tempting idea, it would mean getting the art department to redesign the appearance of every single Industrial ship, which would be a massive waste of time when they could just do it the way they are intending to do it. Also, you would be getting rid of a ship from each race which would ultimately result in less variation which is bad for everyone. Variation is good for the sandbox.

No. standardizing ships only makes things dull in the long run. In the same way that CCPs standardization of the character creation has made races almost obsolete.

Well then explain what I don't understand then. If you can't be bothered I am just going to presume I was right and your trying to wriggle out of it by pretending you can't be bothered to explain what you were incapable of portraying in your previous posts.

But the thing you fail miserably to understand is that that training is a Sunk Cost. It is entirely irrelevant to your future decisions. You trained it, and you received the benefit you trained to receive. Cost changes after the fact are irrelevant.

It would be interesting if CCP gave the option after such a massive reskill as this, to rebuild your character at a cost of say 10%sp.
Say there was a minor glitch with the fluid router but we got you back, mostly.
Could even spin as part of the increased sleeper tech usage reacting badly with the Jovian derived bits.
Actually that would be a glorious way of also explaing the tech 3 nerf that will be coming.
The Sleeper tech had to be purged/downgraded lest it destroy you, much like the new anti eject option.

At least BS V has some useful application in the event you need to fly a BS. And seeing as you are a capital pilot you will have all the pre requisite skills to fly a BS if needed. Mining Barge V is a skill that only a character who wanted to mine would train up for, and so absolutely no use for most players who trained for the Orca. So its completely different entirely.

I have to ask, exactly what kind of variety is it that these racial ships provide?

That argument can be used in many situations. For instance if you bought a car from a dealer for 10k and then a week later they dropped the price to 5k then you would be lying if you say you were happy. So the sunk cost argument is entirely dependent on the situations and cannot be applied in a blanket approach as you seem to be trying.

Exactly. This is all about customer service. Using the example above if you paid 10k for a car and then the car was reduced to 5k a week later then you would expect it fair and good customer service for the the dealer to refund you 5k or at least a portion of the difference. It's just good customer service and I hope CCP consider something like this.

Hahah. Ok for a start using Wikipedia to base what is right and wrong is laughable at best. Academic and psychological mumbo jumbo aside, this comes down to good customer service. Using the car example, if you went back to the dealer a week later and complained the car has been reduced half price then yes, the dealer could say tough luck and give you some sunk cost BS and link you a wikipedia article, but then you'd probably never go back to that dealer again.

I'm using the Wikipedia article because it's pretty clear that you have no idea what Sunk Costs actually are, and I'm hoping that you're literate enough to realize that the link is a suggestion to realize that you might want to read the article so you can learn.

Oh well...

Plenty of places will offer you some reimbursement if the price suddenly changes recently after you've bought it. You must be buying from some crappy shops. Ive even had Amazon refund me the difference before when they dropped the price on a pre order I made. They didn't make any fuss or some give me BS which is why it is the largest online retailer.

Lots of stuff.

I don't know where in the world you are from. But here in the UK we actually do have a number of shops who will reimburse you the difference if the price drops within a month of buying. Particuarly using your example of around christmas, many shops will advertise that they will reimburse any difference if the price drops in sale. Also many shops will reimburse you the price if you find the product cheaper in a shop elsewhere within a month of purchase. This is pretty standard practice here in the UK.

I don't know where in the world you are from. But here in the UK we actually do have a number of shops who will reimburse you the difference if the price drops within a month of buying. Particuarly using your example of around christmas, many shops will advertise that they will reimburse any difference if the price drops in sale. Also many shops will reimburse you the price if you find the product cheaper in a shop elsewhere within a month of purchase. This is pretty standard practice here in the UK.

You are asking for a refund on a 4 year old product while it is still in working order and you can still use it simply because it got cheaper.

They're also asking for a refund on something they don't even own.

To be fair, they're also not asking to actually receive anything when they get the things they don't own refunded.

And those are all policies that they advertise, correct?

Name for me a Car Dealer, which I can call up, and ask if they will give me 5 grand because a Car I bought dropped in price by 5 grand after I bought it.

Name for me a company which will refund the difference in prices months or years after I bought something?

The Orca has been around since November 2008. You are asking for a refund on a 4 year old product while it is still in working order and you can still use it simply because it got cheaper.

but then you'd probably never go back to that dealer again.

You really should just quit EVE.

itty V in 33 minutes is ridiculous period.

As for your concern about the Itty V

If you ever come to the UK please tell me your name so I can add it to my list of suckers who are happy to be be ripped for every last penny and will then come on the internet singing the praises of my benevolence.

So you're not going to stop buying a product from a company you're not satisfied with? Who's the sucker now?

So you're not going to stop buying a product from a company you're not satisfied with? Who's the sucker now?

eve isnt just some product dude it carrys a lot of time invested and is one of the only sincere mmos out there with a mature theme.

he probably really likes eve and would rather support it to become the best it can be without just turning his back on it.

he probably really likes eve and would rather support it to become the best it can be without just turning his back on it.

But apparently the fact that they're not going to reimburse a skill that is still useful is terrible customer service, and that is a cited reason to not continue buying a product.

That is the whole point. Mining barge skill is not useful and never will be useful. I don't have any of the other related mining skills trained up and would never want to as I simply wanted to use the orca. At least with capital pilots they can jump into BS's, and HAC pilots can jump into assault frigates, and that is the difference that most people on this thread seem to not understand as the excuse that it is still a useful skill is being stated when in fact mining barge V is not useful at all in the slightest.

Also just because I feel CCP dropped the ball on this issue that doesn't mean they offer terrible customer service. Come on, just one minor mistake and you expect everyone to quit the game?

But it is useful, you can fly mining barges at the highest level if you want to.

i think hes using the situation to display to himself that people( producers) need people like him, its probably something that makes him feel better about himself.

Hehe. Yes, sucking up to CCP. It seems a lot on these forums will defend CCP tooth and nail and tell anyone who makes even a minor complaint to quit.

I'd like to see that noob try to move that 29k m3 of _______ in that Itty5 that he has skiled to 1.

And what can he do with that Orca?

Can't boost. Can't mine. Can haul, but not that well.

easily.

Hehe. Yes, sucking up to CCP. It seems a lot on these forums will defend CCP tooth and nail and tell anyone who makes even a minor complaint to quit.

Role Bonus:
250% bonus to tractor beam range
100% bonus to tractor beam velocity
500% bonus to survey scanner range
99% reduction in CPU need for Warfare Link modules
Can use 3 warfare link modules simultaneously.

Industrial Command Ship Skill Bonus:
5% bonus to cargo capacity per level
3% bonus to effectiveness of mining foreman links per level


bolded the important parts for you.

Show your math, to say that.

EDIT: no rigs and only T1 expanders, also show speed and align time

EDIT2: and show with T1 rigs skilled to 1, and T1 expanders, also with speed and align time.

Get over yourself. Back in 2003 people mined in imicus for a week to buy a thorax.

If you want to be a EDIT: No profanity, please - ISD Tyrozan for new people, maybe you should be pushed back into that paradigm and make ISK old-school way.

We're not defending CCP because we're groupies, we're just tearing apart your ridiculous argument because it's crap and I can't stand to let people who are logic challenged run riot on the forum saying whatever they like.

If you get some kind of reimbursement for your Mining Barge skill then everyone will want reimbursements for the hundreds of skills people will no longer need to fly various different ships, and CCP don't have the time or resources to do that. And frankly, if they did, I would be pissed at them for not spending the money on developers to make eve better, rather than spending it on GMs who will have **** all to do after the event.

Seriously, grow some brain cells and stop thinking the world revolves around you, because it doesn't. And I don't want to hear more of this "the customers always right crap" from you, because you are a minority and most people just don't care.

level of rig skill doesn't affect cargo capacity, and why are you using t1 expanders? if you don't want to max your cargo that's up to you. but a player with gallente industrial I can fit an itty V for over 30k cargo space.

also, do the maths yourself, it's basic.

I like how you quote the cargo space for an Itty5, at Gallente industrial V with T2 expanders and rigs, when a newbie won't have those skills maxed.

You sound angry, you better sit back down in your chair and take some deep breaths before you give yourself a heart attack. lol Just because you are clearly now losing the argument you resort to this behaviour.

Also I don't take kindly to you making up false statements in my name, that just the kind of BS I would expect from a mentally challenge child.

As for being in a minority, you and about 2 others have been spamming the thread with your own opinion. Multiple posts from the same person doesn't mean you have more support.

From your posts you seem to think the purpose of the forum is to spout your views to everyone and shout down opposing views. What you do not realise is that in the process of your shouting and screaming you have yet to come up with much of a rational argument against the reimbursment of SP except for the fact that it will waste dev time. That is really a pretty lame argument against.

Only RubyPorto has actually made a rational argument against, although due to applying a blanket statement and not looking at the situation at hand there were more holes in that argument than swiss chesse.

Yourself on the other hand only seems able to shout and scream at everyone else on the forum who you don't agree with.

Maybe you should think about your behaviour on these forums, as your anger and vitriol at anyone you disagree with is not to the benefit of eve, and eve would be a better place without you behaving in this manner. The reason many people don't bother to come on the forums is because of people like yourself who will try to shout and bully and make up false statements against them, and so people just don't bother writing anything decent on these forums as the response will be akin to a group of mentally challenged apes smashing a keyboard.

We're not defending CCP because we're groupies, we're just tearing apart your ridiculous argument because it's crap and I can't stand to let people who are logic challenged run riot on the forum saying whatever they like.

If you get some kind of reimbursement for your Mining Barge skill then everyone will want reimbursements for the hundreds of skills people will no longer need to fly various different ships, and CCP don't have the time or resources to do that. And frankly, if they did, I would be pissed at them for not spending the money on developers to make eve better, rather than spending it on GMs who will have **** all to do after the event.

Seriously, grow some brain cells and stop thinking the world revolves around you, because it doesn't. And I don't want to hear more of this "the customers always right crap" from you, because you are a minority and most people just don't care.

that kinda thinking i reckon allowed **** like na*zi germany to happen ^^

and why would he now even bother discuss this stuff with you? you arer rude, insulting and immature and second its not like u have an influence on the games development mate u dont work at ccp.

also i like how you made that answer with another toon to give you the feeling like u had a mate backing you up.

that kinda thinking i reckon allowed **** like na*zi germany to happen ^^

that kinda thinking i reckon allowed **** like na*zi germany to happen ^^

and why would he now even bother discuss this stuff with you? you are rude, insulting and immature and second its not like u have an influence on the games development mate u dont work at ccp.

Actually, you're looking for 'The Holocaust' rather than **** germany. (really? **** is covered by the profanity filter?)

The rise of the National Socialist party, to a large degree, was caused by the post war reparations that were forced on Germany after World War 1.

First world problems ?

You sound angry, you better sit back down in your chair and take some deep breaths before you give yourself a heart attack. lol Just because you are clearly now losing the argument you resort to this behaviour.

that kinda thinking i reckon allowed **** like na*zi germany to happen ^^

Oh holy **** a n00b with **** fitting skills and no real idea how to play the game might get into an Orca in less time than it took me!

If your not willing to discuss something with people of an opposite or varying opinion, then you shouldn't be on a forum.

Also, I have not posted with any other toons or alts in this thread. Something I can say, where you can know I am not lying. In the EULA it strictly forbids anyone from pretending to be anyone other than yourself. Mostly to stop people impersonating others for the purposes of scamming. If I were lying about this, I would be risking being banned.

Edit: I will be leaving this thread be. Rebecha Pucontis stupidly opened up a new thread about it in GD and is being thoroughly berated for it, so I think I will continue the argument in there. If you wish to continue debating (or start debating, rather) then you can talk it through there.

except, i didn't quote that, at all. stop making things up, and start reading.

i just pointed out that you can get over 30k m3 with gallente industrial I in an itty V. which is a fact.

also the cargo modules take a trivial amount of time to train, so newbies WILL have those skills trained.

i am willing to discuss stuff with other people , just not with you because you cant behave yourself in a grown up way and your arguments are childish.

Imagine how the tears will flow if they reduce the requirements for freighters...

Get over yourself. Back in 2003 people mined in imicus for a week to buy a thorax.

This is unacceptable!

Inigo Montoya: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

In the upcoming expansion, there are some serious issues that can only be reconciled with free skillpoints or PLEX.

The 2 big ones.. Iteron V is/was 24d to skill for. It will be reduced to 33 minutes.. MINUTES! That's brand new noob, to ITTY V in THIRTY THREE MINUTES! This has the value of nearly an entire month of game time.

Second, the Orca is going from 40+d down to 17 days. This is unacceptable. The thought that some troll can spend his 14-day trial and be up to par with seasoned vets who spent over a month skilling is just atrocious.

WTF is this.. World of Warcraft?

the real issue is that you may as well get rid of all other haulers in game.
at 33min for itty 5, no one is ever going to train any other hauler ever again.

the real issue is that you may as well get rid of all other haulers in game.
at 33min for itty 5, no one is ever going to train any other hauler ever again.

That is the whole point. Mining barge skill is not useful and never will be useful. I don't have any of the other related mining skills trained up and would never want to as I simply wanted to use the orca. At least with capital pilots they can jump into BS's, and HAC pilots can jump into assault frigates, and that is the difference that most people on this thread seem to not understand as the excuse that it is still a useful skill is being stated when in fact mining barge V is not useful at all in the slightest.

Also just because I feel CCP dropped the ball on this issue that doesn't mean they offer terrible customer service. Come on, just one minor mistake and you expect everyone to quit the game?

I don't think the OP is whining about a noob piloting the same vessel he is

Its all to make it easier for the multiaccount users to create a fleet., thus more money for CCP. :)

In the upcoming expansion, there are some serious issues that can only be reconciled with free skillpoints or PLEX.

The 2 big ones.. Iteron V is/was 24d to skill for. It will be reduced to 33 minutes.. MINUTES! That's brand new noob, to ITTY V in THIRTY THREE MINUTES! This has the value of nearly an entire month of game time.

Second, the Orca is going from 40+d down to 17 days. This is unacceptable. The thought that some troll can spend his 14-day trial and be up to par with seasoned vets who spent over a month skilling is just atrocious.

WTF is this.. World of Warcraft?