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Should Ganking be profitable?

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Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 13368	Posted - 2013.03.23 17:09:00 - [601] - Quote Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote: This is a game with coded gaming mechanics. In reference to the topic at hand the mechanic in not balanced. In what way? Quote: Just like other changes they made in the past to fix the game. GÇªchanges that came about because something was amiss, so rather unlike what we have here. After all, why shouldn't you be able to rob people of their valuables for profit? Whitehound wrote: The majority does not like to be robbed. GÇªand they can choose not to. If they don't choose that, why shouldn't you be able to rob them of their valuables for profit? Vote Malcanis for CSM8.
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 State War Academy Caldari State 178	Posted - 2013.03.23 17:10:00 - [602] - Quote Murk Paradox wrote: Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote: Tippia, I hope its more of a unwillingness or a refusal to accept someone else valid points of views more then a reading comprehension issue. I have sated my opinion and point of view clearly and stated reason's for those. Should you have any further questions please take the time and perhaps read them again. Hope this helps you. Have a nice day. Pot meet kettle. By the way, you still haven't answered the burning question, in fact you've taken such a circuitous route around it that politicians are jealous of your ability to avoid answering it. Why shouldn't you be able to rob people of their valuables for profit? They should in low/null. again they should not in hi-sec because of the imbalance from low cost/effort high dps ships. I have answered this over and over. Take the time to read not skim. Are you certain you and Tippia are not one in the same? Or maybe just both suffer from the same infliction. What imbalance of cost/effort? You get popped from Concord. That's already less profit than from null/lowsec. WHY should highsec not have the same abilities for ganking, with a higher cost to do so? It's already in place. That's where everyone is questioning your posts. You keep saying it's not there. It is. Ask baltec1 how many ships he has lost doing his ganks in highsec. I'm willing to assume each and every single one of them. Which would not necessarily hold true in lowsec, or nullsec. you keep saying you answered it. But you haven't. No one said he has not lost ship..again that fact has already been stated. We all know you get poped by concord...Welcome to ten pages ago. The value of those ships are way out of balance with the dps they can bear and the effort they require for the value and effort they can destroy is not balanced. Again hi-sec does not exist just to be exploited it should be the best balanced space of the three.
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 State War Academy Caldari State 178	Posted - 2013.03.23 17:11:00 - [603] - Quote Tippia wrote: Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote: This is a game with coded gaming mechanics. In reference to the topic at hand the mechanic in not balanced. In what way? Quote: Just like other changes they made in the past to fix the game. GÇªchanges that came about because something was amiss, so rather unlike what we have here. After all, why shouldn't you be able to rob people of their valuables for profit? Whitehound wrote: The majority does not like to be robbed. GÇªand they can choose not to. If they don't choose that, why shouldn't you be able to rob them of their valuables for profit? This has been explained already.
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 State War Academy Caldari State 178	Posted - 2013.03.23 17:13:00 - [604] - Quote Takseen wrote: Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote: They should in low/null. again they should not in hi-sec because of the imbalance from low cost/effort high dps ships. A gankship earns far far less over its lifetime than a typical 3B mission ship. Its perfectly balanced in the longrun. numbers?
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 13369	Posted - 2013.03.23 17:13:00 - [605] - Quote Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote: The value of those ships are way out of balance with the dps they can bear and the effort they require for the value and effort they can destroy is not balanced. In what way? What's GÇ£imbalancedGÇ¥ about small and cheap ships being able to kill large and expensive ones, especially considering the fact that cost is not a balancing factor? In fact, in this game, small and cheap being able to beat large and expensive is what makes it balanced. So why do you want that balance removed? Why shouldn't you be able to rob people of their valuables for profit? Quote: Again hi-sec does not exist just to be exploited it should be the best balanced space of the three. Incorrect on both accounts. Highsec, like all space, is there to be exploited, or it would serve no purpose. Highsec, like all space, should be balanced. You have yet to show that it isn't. Quote: This has been explained already. Avoiding the question and not providing any kind of facts or reasoning is not hte same thing as GÇ£explainingGÇ¥, so no, it really hasn't. Or do you mean that you once again agree: because yes, it has been explained why you should be able to gank people for profit GÇö because the game is explicitly and purposefully designed to allow it, because the devs want it to happen (yes, even in highsecGÇª hell, especially in highsec). Vote Malcanis for CSM8.
Zyress Weapons of Divine Temper 134	Posted - 2013.03.23 17:16:00 - [606] - Quote Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote: Dev soundwave wrote. "Yeah my point is that I don't think they should be profitable to gank. I think it should be possible, but not necessarily profitable (profitable might be the wrong word, but more that the expenses should be higher for the attacker than the defender)." What is everyones opinion? No matter how despicable you or I feel that activity to be, there are always going to be jerks in the sandbox out to ruin your day.. Its your responsibility to insure that their sick idea of fun is not profitable. With the changes to mining barges there is no longer a good excuse not to tank them. If its freight that is particularly valuable you may want to use one of the freight services, you can easily insure it for more than it is worth so they don't get your isk and the freight corp can see to the miscreants. I've personally never been ganked in highsec when I wasn't autopiloting. I consider that my fault. They should probably fix autopilot to warp to zero and jump or just take the button out. Its just a trap of convenience ccp has put on the screen, possibly solely for the benefit of gankers.
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 State War Academy Caldari State 178	Posted - 2013.03.23 17:18:00 - [607] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote: They should in low/null. again they should not in hi-sec because of the imbalance from low cost/effort high dps ships. I have answered this over and over. Take the time to read not skim. Are you certain you and Tippia are not one in the same? Or maybe just both suffer from the same infliction. Firstly I'm pretty certain that Tippia and myself are not related in any way, outside of the common gene pool that humanity shares. Secondly I have taken the time to read all of your posts, I'm now somewhat dumber because of it. Thirdly you haven't answered the question, you have gone so far out of the way to avoid doing so that you've completed a lap of the solar system. Fourthly the only affliction I'm suffering from is the spontaneous death of some braincells, mainly because of your posts. Why shouldn't you be able to rob people of valuables for profit? My apologies then, you are far beyond any help I could provide regarding you lack of understanding. There are professional services and organizations that offer this type of service.
Whitehound 1371	Posted - 2013.03.23 17:19:00 - [608] - Quote Tippia wrote: GÇªand they can choose not to. If they don't choose that, why shouldn't you be able to rob them of their valuables for profit? Quitting EVE is not the answer. Again, why ask the question when you know it is wrong? You are trolling when you ask a question like "Why not rob people?" It is needless to say that it is the dumbest, most offensive question to ask anywhere in the world. If it is not trolling then tell me, why ask it? Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Jonah Gravenstein Khalkotauroi Defence Labs 6979	Posted - 2013.03.23 17:20:00 - [609] - Quote I'm actually going to go a little off topic here. Gankers use cheap specialised ships that are designed to inflict the maximum hurt on much bigger and more expensive vessels. The OP (formerly known as HollyShocker 2inthestink) believes that cheap, small, maximum damage ships shouldn't be able to destroy much bigger vessels that are specialised for carrying cargo or mining, and make a profit In real world terms what gankers do is the equivalent of using a $200 RPG to disable a $10,000,000 cargo carrier, and loot it to make a profit. This is the off topic bit Alternatively in the realms of cinema, they used X-wings, a cheap disposable ship, to destroy the Death Star, a monstrosity the size of a moon (admittedly the Revel Alliance didn't directly profit from the Death Stars destruction, indirectly they saved many lives and may well have been showered with financial support from the planets that didn't get destroyed because of their actions). Back on topic Why shouldn't you be able to rob people of their valuables for profit? Eve in a nutshell, it's you vs the universe, and every machiavellian space bastard in it.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 13369	Posted - 2013.03.23 17:22:00 - [610] - Quote Whitehound wrote: Quitting EVE is not the answer. Good thing that I didn't suggest anything of the kind, then. Quote: Again, why ask the question when you know it is wrong? What's wrong about the question? Quote: If it is not trolling then tell me, why ask it? Because the OP is asking for the removal of gameplay without providing a reason why it should happen, and he's deliberately misrepresenting dev statements and lying about game changes to support his stance. I want to know if he has anything that even remotely resembles a legit reason for the kinds of changes he wants to see. Vote Malcanis for CSM8.

Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 State War Academy Caldari State 178	Posted - 2013.03.23 17:25:00 - [611] - Quote Zyress wrote: Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote: Dev soundwave wrote. "Yeah my point is that I don't think they should be profitable to gank. I think it should be possible, but not necessarily profitable (profitable might be the wrong word, but more that the expenses should be higher for the attacker than the defender)." What is everyones opinion? No matter how despicable you or I feel that activity to be, there are always going to be jerks in the sandbox out to ruin your day.. Its your responsibility to insure that their sick idea of fun is not profitable. With the changes to mining barges there is no longer a good excuse not to tank them. If its freight that is particularly valuable you may want to use one of the freight services, you can easily insure it for more than it is worth so they don't get your isk and the freight corp can see to the miscreants. I've personally never been ganked in highsec when I wasn't autopiloting. I consider that my fault. They should probably fix autopilot to warp to zero and jump or just take the button out. Its just a trap of convenience ccp has put on the screen, possibly solely for the benefit of gankers. I understand where you are coming from and respect your opinion but I donGÇÖt feel I should have to alter the fit or value of any ship to the point where it hinders its ability to do what it was designed to do. I understand there are many things people can do to help themselves to prevent the gank butGÇª. At some point regardless of you efforts you could fail. Should you pay the price and get ganked? Perhaps but if there where balance and effort required to take you out then it would make better sense. There is a reason a frig cant blow up a Titan right? Right??
NocturnalDeath 0ne Percent. Transmission Lost 1	Posted - 2013.03.23 17:26:00 - [612] - Quote Quote: Again hi-sec does not exist just to be exploited it should be the best balanced space of the three. SUBSCRIBER RETAINMENT What is one of the best ways for CCP to retain new subscribers? For those subscribers to interact with others and develop relationships with other pilots. How does CCP do this? By encouraging new pilots to huddle together for fun, profit, and protection. 1. Create incentive to join a player corp 2. Create incentive to invest time/isk in the corporation entity 3. Create incentive to work together instead of solo 4. Create a need for pilots to play smarter - allow/buff HiSec Antagonists such as thieves, gankers, scammers, etc 5. Create incentive to fight for each other - functioning wardecs and mercenary mechanics. __________ "The greatest aspect of this game is not acually the sandbox, ...but is the competitive nature of the game" - Psychotic Monk
Murk Paradox Red Tsunami No Value 282	Posted - 2013.03.23 17:31:00 - [613] - Quote Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote: Murk Paradox wrote: Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote: Tippia, I hope its more of a unwillingness or a refusal to accept someone else valid points of views more then a reading comprehension issue. I have sated my opinion and point of view clearly and stated reason's for those. Should you have any further questions please take the time and perhaps read them again. Hope this helps you. Have a nice day. Pot meet kettle. By the way, you still haven't answered the burning question, in fact you've taken such a circuitous route around it that politicians are jealous of your ability to avoid answering it. Why shouldn't you be able to rob people of their valuables for profit? They should in low/null. again they should not in hi-sec because of the imbalance from low cost/effort high dps ships. I have answered this over and over. Take the time to read not skim. Are you certain you and Tippia are not one in the same? Or maybe just both suffer from the same infliction. What imbalance of cost/effort? You get popped from Concord. That's already less profit than from null/lowsec. WHY should highsec not have the same abilities for ganking, with a higher cost to do so? It's already in place. That's where everyone is questioning your posts. You keep saying it's not there. It is. Ask baltec1 how many ships he has lost doing his ganks in highsec. I'm willing to assume each and every single one of them. Which would not necessarily hold true in lowsec, or nullsec. you keep saying you answered it. But you haven't. No one said he has not lost ship..again that fact has already been stated. We all know you get poped by concord...Welcome to ten pages ago. The value of those ships are way out of balance with the dps they can bear and the effort they require for the value and effort they can destroy is not balanced. *Again hi-sec does not exist just to be exploited it should be the best balanced space of the three.* Aha now we're getting somewhere. First, the bolded/italicized part- You defeated you're own logic again. Nowhere is it said it isn't. You've never proven that point. You say null should yield MORE profit than highsec. It does. You say lowsec should yield more profit than highsec. It does. Highsec is the only sector that has concord. Least amount of profit to be made. Period. It is the most protected, highseccers take advantage of that by trying to fit more yield due to this fact. Therefore, complacency has its' place in regards to fitting. People in null and low realize this and therefore fit more tank accordingly, as a second nature! Now the underlined part. Nowhere, NOWHERE in this thread, is it even referenced, or mentioned, about how powerful certain ships could be. ANYTHING can be ganked. Period. Welcome to spaceships and battle and "do not undock what you cannot afford to lose". Also, the "value" is placed on ships based on 2 very important things. Mineral cost to physically build them. And 2nd, popularity. Specifically for gank ships, which you seem to have focused on, destroyers are very affordable and easy to fly and fit. You don't like this apparently. Take a combat destroyer out for a spin and attack a cruiser. See how well you fare. Chances are, that cruiser can hold tank against your destroyer. Even with only 2/3 number of gun slots. So now you want to look at dps versus ehp? You do realize that exhumers have VERY VERY low ehp? Especially when fitted for yield? And do you also realize, that a frigate, hell, even a MINING frigate, specifically a venture, built FOR mining(!!!) can gank an exhumer? Simply because it CAN fit guns. I personally think you have gone waaay too far down this rabbit hole by taking ownership of something you do not understand. Trust me, I question everything and recognize this. But any and all of that will NEVER remove the ability to do something, whether it for fun OR profit. All YOU can do, as a pilot, is mitigate your chances at cost effectiveness for a ganker to want to target you. In fact, how do you know a ganker targeted you personally, for profit, as opposed to wanting to see you burn? CODE. is a combat/gank branch of the New Order of Halaima, and does not gank for profit. They gank to enforce a rule. Each and every single catalyst or any other ship enjoys it, and will target any and all exhumers that do not follow their dogma. Most get those ships replaced, some prefer NOT to accept the reimbursement. People even DONATE BILLIONS to the cause. So no offense (or get offended, whatever), but take your "because of profit" and just quit while you can. Welcome to Eve. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url]-á for details.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 13369	Posted - 2013.03.23 17:31:00 - [614] - Quote Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote: I understand where you are coming from and respect your opinion but I donGÇÖt feel I should have to alter the fit or value of any ship to the point where it hinders its ability to do what it was designed to do. Good news: you don't. Quote: I understand there are many things people can do to help themselves to prevent the gank butGÇª. At some point regardless of you efforts you could fail. Should you pay the price and get ganked? Yes. If you failed to prevent the gank when you had every opportunity and ability to do so, you should pay the price. Quote: Perhaps but if there where balance and effort required to take you out then it would make better sense. GÇªwhich is already the case. Quote: There is a reason a frig cant blow up a Titan right? Right?? Setting aside that it's probably possibleGÇª yes, but that reason has nothing to do with value. Vote Malcanis for CSM8.
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 State War Academy Caldari State 178	Posted - 2013.03.23 17:36:00 - [615] - Quote Tippia wrote: Whitehound wrote: Quitting EVE is not the answer. Good thing that I didn't suggest anything of the kind, then. Quote: Again, why ask the question when you know it is wrong? What's wrong about the question? Quote: If it is not trolling then tell me, why ask it? Because the OP is asking for the removal of gameplay without providing a reason why it should happen, and he's deliberately misrepresenting dev statements and lying about game changes to support his stance. I want to know if he has anything that even remotely resembles a legit reason for the kinds of changes he wants to see. Again please see previous post and statements. Not asking to remove game play. Tippia statement is said only in an attempt to invalidate what she/he can not realistically or logical debate as he/she always reverts to when all else fails. I have stated many times leave in the ability to gank. Close the gap on the effort and cost to kill high value ships in hi-sec remove the profit from ganking not the ability.
baltec1 Bat Country 5710	Posted - 2013.03.23 17:40:00 - [616] - Quote Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote: Not asking to remove game play. Removing ganking for profit IS removing piracy which means a lot of people just lost their gameplay. All because you don't want there to be conciquences for your own actions.
Murk Paradox Red Tsunami No Value 282	Posted - 2013.03.23 17:40:00 - [617] - Quote Zyress wrote: Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote: Dev soundwave wrote. "Yeah my point is that I don't think they should be profitable to gank. I think it should be possible, but not necessarily profitable (profitable might be the wrong word, but more that the expenses should be higher for the attacker than the defender)." What is everyones opinion? No matter how despicable you or I feel that activity to be, there are always going to be jerks in the sandbox out to ruin your day.. Its your responsibility to insure that their sick idea of fun is not profitable. With the changes to mining barges there is no longer a good excuse not to tank them. If its freight that is particularly valuable you may want to use one of the freight services, you can easily insure it for more than it is worth so they don't get your isk and the freight corp can see to the miscreants. I've personally never been ganked in highsec when I wasn't autopiloting. I consider that my fault. They should probably fix autopilot to warp to zero and jump or just take the button out. Its just a trap of convenience ccp has put on the screen, possibly solely for the benefit of gankers. Or enforce you are indeed at the helm and not afk =). "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url]-á for details.
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 State War Academy Caldari State 178	Posted - 2013.03.23 17:43:00 - [618] - Quote Tippia wrote: Good news: you don't.. Sure you do. Tippia wrote: Yes. If you failed to prevent the gank when you had every opportunity and ability to do so, you should pay the price. I agree the but the ganker should also pay a higher price. Tippia wrote: Setting aside that it's probably possibleGÇª yes, but that reason has nothing to do with value. Sure it does same concept you just refuse to acknowledge it
Whitehound 1371	Posted - 2013.03.23 17:43:00 - [619] - Quote Tippia wrote: [Because the OP is asking for the removal of gameplay ... I have provided ideas how it can be extended and these do not have to be the only ones. If mining was as easy as looting then we could fly into asteroid belts and go from asteroid to asteroid, click "Open Asteroid" and "Loot All". It would be the end of all AFK mining and players would race each other to get to it. Prices would fall drastically and everyone would be PvPing, because it would be a lot cheaper then. Players who sit with hundreds of ships in icebelts, using ISBoxer to mine ice, would be a thing of the past, too.Players would start fighting over asteroid belts... Fighting wars then is not easy and looting being all sweet was not much of a problem. However gankers try to avoid fighting and want to get to the loot as quickly as possible like it was WoW we are playing. It is not ganking, which is the problem, it is looting. If we can hold on to the way mining works, then we can changing looting, too. Or we change mining to be as simple as looting... Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 13369	Posted - 2013.03.23 17:43:00 - [620] - Quote Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote: Again please see previous post and statements. Not asking to remove game play. GÇªexcept for highsec piracy, which is something CCP has worked pretty hard to allow, and they explicitly want people to be able to profit from it. Quote: Close the gap on the effort and cost to kill high value ships in hi-sec remove the profit from ganking not the ability. Why? Vote Malcanis for CSM8.

Jonah Gravenstein Khalkotauroi Defence Labs 6980	Posted - 2013.03.23 17:44:00 - [621] - Quote Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote: They should in low/null. again they should not in hi-sec because of the imbalance from low cost/effort high dps ships. I have answered this over and over. Take the time to read not skim. Are you certain you and Tippia are not one in the same? Or maybe just both suffer from the same infliction. Firstly I'm pretty certain that Tippia and myself are not related in any way, outside of the common gene pool that humanity shares. Secondly I have taken the time to read all of your posts, I'm now somewhat dumber because of it. Thirdly you haven't answered the question, you have gone so far out of the way to avoid doing so that you've completed a lap of the solar system. Fourthly the only affliction I'm suffering from is the spontaneous death of some braincells, mainly because of your posts. Why shouldn't you be able to rob people of valuables for profit? My apologies then, you are far beyond any help I could provide regarding you lack of understanding. There are professional services and organizations that offer this type of service. Thank you for your concern, rest assured I have no problems with understanding what I read, reading is actually one of my favourite pastimes. I've thought, spoken and written in English for nearly 40 years, it is after all my native tongue. I'm not beyond any help that you can offer, for example if you stopped posting it would be a great help, both to me and anyone else that has found they are somewhat dumber after reading your mindless drivel. You are quite possibly one of the most ill informed and intransigent posters I have ever had the displeasure of seeing on any forum anywhere in all my years of using the internet. I bid you good day and suggest that you take on board the opinions of those who obviously understand game balance and mechanics better than you do, CCP is amongst them. Eve in a nutshell, it's you vs the universe, and every machiavellian space bastard in it.
Murk Paradox Red Tsunami No Value 282	Posted - 2013.03.23 17:49:00 - [622] - Quote Whitehound wrote: Tippia wrote: Because the OP is asking for the removal of gameplay ... I have provided ideas how it can be extended and these do not have to be the only ones. If mining was as easy as looting then we could fly into asteroid belts and go from asteroid to asteroid, click "Open Asteroid" and "Loot All". It would be the end of all AFK mining and players would race each other to get to it. Prices would fall drastically and everyone would be PvPing, because it would be a lot cheaper then. Players who sit with hundreds of ships in icebelts, using ISBoxer to mine ice, would be a thing of the past, too. Players would start fighting over asteroid belts... Fighting wars then is not easy and looting being all sweet was not much of a problem. However gankers try to avoid fighting and want to get to the loot as quickly as possible like it was WoW we are playing. It is not ganking, which is the problem, it is looting. If we can hold on to the way mining works, then we can changing looting, too. Or we change mining to be as simple as looting... Or take caldari citizen's approach and remove mining from highsec since exhumers get ganked "for profit". Or do not allow exhumers in highsec (much like capitals are no longer allowed to enter highsec(keyword "enter"). That would solve this problem right? /sarcasm EDIT- in fact, that might also help with the whole highsec industry debacle as well! "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url]-á for details.
Zyress Weapons of Divine Temper 134	Posted - 2013.03.23 17:49:00 - [623] - Quote Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote: Zyress wrote: Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote: Dev soundwave wrote. "Yeah my point is that I don't think they should be profitable to gank. I think it should be possible, but not necessarily profitable (profitable might be the wrong word, but more that the expenses should be higher for the attacker than the defender)." What is everyones opinion? No matter how despicable you or I feel that activity to be, there are always going to be jerks in the sandbox out to ruin your day.. Its your responsibility to insure that their sick idea of fun is not profitable. With the changes to mining barges there is no longer a good excuse not to tank them. If its freight that is particularly valuable you may want to use one of the freight services, you can easily insure it for more than it is worth so they don't get your isk and the freight corp can see to the miscreants. I've personally never been ganked in highsec when I wasn't autopiloting. I consider that my fault. They should probably fix autopilot to warp to zero and jump or just take the button out. Its just a trap of convenience ccp has put on the screen, possibly solely for the benefit of gankers. I understand where you are coming from and respect your opinion but I donGÇÖt feel I should have to alter the fit or value of any ship to the point where it hinders its ability to do what it was designed to do. I understand there are many things people can do to help themselves to prevent the gank butGÇª. At some point regardless of you efforts you could fail. Should you pay the price and get ganked? Perhaps but if there where balance and effort required to take you out then it would make better sense. There is a reason a frig cant blow up a Titan right? Right?? Have you ever played Civilization? Fun game, lots of ways to win. My favorite method is to win the space race. Building military units and technologies for the most part distracts and takes resources away from that goal. However if I have warriors protecting my science-industrial complex some primitive with swordsmen could easily wipe me out. Building defenses and the needed technologies while detrimental to my goal are a necesary part of the game. Its the same in eve. You have to defend yourself at all times, its part of the game and a cost of any activity you do outside of a station.
Takseen University of Caille Gallente Federation 377	Posted - 2013.03.23 17:52:00 - [624] - Quote Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote: Takseen wrote: A gankship earns far far less over its lifetime than a typical 3B mission ship. Its perfectly balanced in the longrun. numbers? I've heard level 4 mission income quoted at 50-100M ISK. Take a typical Retriever gank like this Barely 7M ISK in loot, split between 2 pilots, and before the cost of the Catalysts and fittings. And you can't chain-gank miners nearly as easily as you can chainrun missions.
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 State War Academy Caldari State 178	Posted - 2013.03.23 17:53:00 - [625] - Quote NocturnalDeath wrote: Quote: Again hi-sec does not exist just to be exploited it should be the best balanced space of the three. SUBSCRIBER RETAINMENT What is one of the best ways for CCP to retain new subscribers? For those subscribers to interact with others and develop relationships with other pilots. How does CCP do this? By encouraging new pilots to huddle together for fun, profit, and protection. 1. Create incentive to join a player corp 2. Create incentive to invest time/isk in the corporation entity 3. Create incentive to work together instead of solo 4. Create a need for pilots to play smarter - allow/buff HiSec Antagonists such as thieves, gankers, scammers, etc 5. Create incentive to fight for each other - functioning wardecs and mercenary mechanics. __________ "The greatest aspect of this game is not acually the sandbox, ...but is the competitive nature of the game" - Psychotic Monk This ties into the topic how? So I need 20 of my friends on line to run a solo mission? Even with those 20 friends online the mechanics of hi-sec still favor the gankers. Again this also part of the balance. If you want to be a pirate then I say yarr avast me me scurvy prutid ship mates....then you should be shoot on sight in hi-sec the first time you gank the first person till the day you bio mass. Some one brought up the pirates of old. Were they allowed to sail around the seas unmolested? No they were hunted down and hung.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 13369	Posted - 2013.03.23 17:56:00 - [626] - Quote Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote: This ties into the topic how? Ok. That answer the previous question about reading comprehension at leastGÇª Try #4 againGÇª Quote: Some one brought up the pirates of old. Were they allowed to sail around the seas unmolested? No they were hunted down and hung. GÇªor taken back home and given medals for their service to the empire. Vote Malcanis for CSM8.
Takseen University of Caille Gallente Federation 377	Posted - 2013.03.23 17:57:00 - [627] - Quote Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote: This ties into the topic how? So I need 20 of my friends on line to run a solo mission? No. The point is that activities that encourage being at the keyboard and working with other players are inherently superior to activities that encourage solo gameplay and being away from your keyboard. Both in terms of subscriber retention and new player acquisition, because they generate more interesting content for each other and those around them.
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 State War Academy Caldari State 178	Posted - 2013.03.23 17:58:00 - [628] - Quote Murk Paradox wrote: Nowhere, NOWHERE in this thread, is it even referenced, or mentioned, about how powerful certain ships could be. Sure it has several times. This tells me you havent read it.
Zyress Weapons of Divine Temper 134	Posted - 2013.03.23 18:00:00 - [629] - Quote Murk Paradox wrote: Zyress wrote: Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote: Dev soundwave wrote. "Yeah my point is that I don't think they should be profitable to gank. I think it should be possible, but not necessarily profitable (profitable might be the wrong word, but more that the expenses should be higher for the attacker than the defender)." What is everyones opinion? No matter how despicable you or I feel that activity to be, there are always going to be jerks in the sandbox out to ruin your day.. Its your responsibility to insure that their sick idea of fun is not profitable. With the changes to mining barges there is no longer a good excuse not to tank them. If its freight that is particularly valuable you may want to use one of the freight services, you can easily insure it for more than it is worth so they don't get your isk and the freight corp can see to the miscreants. I've personally never been ganked in highsec when I wasn't autopiloting. I consider that my fault. They should probably fix autopilot to warp to zero and jump or just take the button out. Its just a trap of convenience ccp has put on the screen, possibly solely for the benefit of gankers. Or enforce you are indeed at the helm and not afk =). If they want to enforce that they should just remove the button and take away all doubt of their intentions.
Jonah Gravenstein Khalkotauroi Defence Labs 6980	Posted - 2013.03.23 18:00:00 - [630] - Quote Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote: Some one brought up the pirates of old. Were they allowed to sail around the seas unmolested? No they were hunted down and hung. That would be me among others, in fact most of them were given a "letter of marque and reprisal" by their country to prey upon enemy shipping, including merchants. They stopped being pirates and became privateers. Sir Francis Drake, an English hero famous for his role in the utter defeat of the Spanish Armada was one such man, he had a letter of marque from Queen Elizabeth I to prey upon Spanish shipping, needless to say the Spanish weren't too happy about it and classed him as a pirate. Eve in a nutshell, it's you vs the universe, and every machiavellian space bastard in it.



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