It is raven that bugs me however - torp fitted, it is direct competition to blaster naga or talos and cruise fitted it is direct competition to rokh or other long range battleships; and imo it fails miserably in both situations - vs blaster naga, it produces similar dps (with much worse damage application and similar range) while fielding similar tank and much worse mobility while vs rokh or other long ranged bs, it does project ok dps at massive range (after cruise buff), but its damage application is still kinda poor (especially with furies and it needs them for decent damage) and its tank is severely lacking vs fleet battleships

Lets look at this assertion.

Tank
Shield 7000(Raven) 2160(Naga)
Armor 5800(Raven) 1575(Naga)

In shields, the Raven (New Version) has over 3 times the tank of a Naga.
In Armor, almost 4 times.

The Naga is indeed much more mobile at 195, but the Raven will have a Speed Buff and will have a speef of 113.
Indeed, the BC is much more mobile.

Then we have selectable Damage Types. The Raven can Select Damage types as it wishes.
The Naga is stuck with its Hybrid-Based Damage Types.

-

For Torpedoes we will have to see what will happen in the future.
A possible change to torpedoes could make the Raven OP in the brawler setting.

But with the new Cruise Missiles buffs, which allow Cruise Missiles more, faster and better damage application, one on one, a Raven should rip a Naga or Talos to shreds.

-

In Slots, a Naga has an 8/6/3 Setup
The Raven an 7/7/5.
This allows a Raven Pilot a much broader setup and much more flexibility.

-

Lets look at this assertion.

Tank
Shield 7000(Raven) 2160(Naga)
Armor 5800(Raven) 1575(Naga)

In shields, the Raven (New Version) has over 3 times the tank of a Naga.
In Armor, almost 4 times.

The Naga is indeed much more mobile at 195, but the Raven will have a Speed Buff and will have a speef of 113.
Indeed, the BC is much more mobile.

Then we have selectable Damage Types. The Raven can Select Damage types as it wishes.
The Naga is stuck with its Hybrid-Based Damage Types.

-

For Torpedoes we will have to see what will happen in the future.
A possible change to torpedoes could make the Raven OP in the brawler setting.

But with the new Cruise Missiles buffs, which allow Cruise Missiles more, faster and better damage application, one on one, a Raven should rip a Naga or Talos to shreds.

-

In Slots, a Naga has an 8/6/3 Setup
The Raven an 7/7/5.
This allows a Raven Pilot a much broader setup and much more flexibility.

-

--> The fact that a Naga can out damage a rokh is hilarious and the rokh is just sitting sadly in the deep dark corners of a station hangar.

While it is true that Rokh dps is kinda crappy, I wouldn't agree it sucks - it is designed to be fleet ship and it works good as one - what is lacks in dps, it makes up for with massive buffer and resistance bonuses that make it even tougher in logistics heavy environment (for example large scale fleet combat). While naga might be better dps wise and in small gangs, rokhs should perform better in large fleets simple due to their ability to outlast incoming damage much better.

It is raven that bugs me however - torp fitted, it is direct competition to blaster naga or talos and cruise fitted it is direct competition to rokh or other long range battleships; and imo it fails miserably in both situations - vs blaster naga, it produces similar dps (with much worse damage application and similar range) while fielding similar tank and much worse mobility while vs rokh or other long ranged bs, it does project ok dps at massive range (after cruise buff), but its damage application is still kinda poor (especially with furies and it needs them for decent damage) and its tank is severely lacking vs fleet battleships

Glad to see ccp stick to the old style keeping caldari battleships useless for pvp,thou the rokh nerf is so awesome ,but it seems too little to make the ship useless, you can do it better Fozzie. It has too much pg for a caldari boat what about -1500 base pg?

The naga doesn't have these issues. Hybrids have instant damage application. If it hits the damage applied will always be full-damage for the turrets that hit. Turrets only have to worry about their range and tracking. Missiles for comparison have to worry about range, target speed, target signature size and delayed alpha. Doesn't look very even now does it?

Not true. The turrets have a sig res attribute. If the sig res of the target is smaller than the sig res of the turret then a smaller amount of damage is applied. If you haven't grasped that yet then you aren't qualified to make comments on their efficacy.

Looks like Caldari pilots will be using the Phoon to get their missile drug fix.

I never liked the Raven's looks, while the 'Phoon, while definitely unbeautiful, has a certain brutal charm. This being the case, I'm not too upset, but I'd be a lot happier if the Raven was equally attractive - that way I'd have a shield boat option if/when armour was a poor choice.

after 28 pages I STILL haven't heard whether the thing that says the scorp has 110 base scan res on the first post is right or not.

Is it a typo? Is it the scorp's new scanres? Because right now the scorp has 75 base scan res. (Horrendously low)

Is it really 110 now? You didn't mark any increase on the first post.

I will keep posting this until someone answers tbh...

Just ckecked Duality, Scorpion has 75mm Scan Resolution.

@CCP Rise
Though I may have missed it, I have not seen any feedback from you concerning the Raven vs. Typhoon issue. Could you please provide feedback in relation the concerns of the players that the Typhoon will plainly outclass the Raven in just about every aspect?

Looking at the ships without considering fitting and the overall slot layout, since both ships have the two ships have the same number of missile launcher hard points and the same rate of fire bonus it is the second bonus that differentiates the ships. The Typhoon will be better at applying damage whereas the Raven will have a range bonus.

I tried to make some PVE (not PVP) fits focusing on a cap stable fit with a balance of active tank and damage. Now bear in mind that this is just fits according to my taste and I am sure people have different tastes when it comes to fits.

Raven
Torpedoes: I could not make a decent fit with torpedoes to suit my purposes because the range bonus does not provide enough range for torpedoes to work properly and the raven is too slow to get into range to make the torpedoes useful. I tried to add an AB but I could not get that to work properly. So for torpedoes: The Raven is too slow and the range afforded by the range bonus is not enough.
Cruise missiles: For the Raven, I found that the in general it works best with CMs because here the does not matter that the Raven is slow since the CMS have a long base strike range, but the range bonus is not relevant because the range of the cruise missiles as they are without the added bonus is adequate. So for CMs: CMs work for the Raven but the range bonus is irrelevant because of the base range of CMs, i.e. the bonus is somewhat wasted here!

Typhoon
Torpedoes: For the Typhoon, I was able to get fit an AB to the active tank and get a cap stable fit. This means that it has speed to get within strike range and the second bonus means that it will be better at applying the damage. So for torpedoes: The Typhoon is a viable torpedo boat and the bonus to apply damage makes it better at applying damage.
Cruise missiles: Using the same basic fit as for torpedoes with a few alterations, I could get it to perform at almost the same level as the Raven, but with the important factor, that it will be better at applying the damage due to its second bonus at a good range thanks to the base range of CMs. And it is still faster than the Raven. So for CMs: CMs work for the Typhoon and the bonus means that it can better apply damage.

TL:DR: PVE fits of my personal taste: Overall, I found that the Raven is best with CMs (where the range bonus is not that relevant!) and torpedoes do not work very well (the Raven is too slow and the range bonus does not provide enough range). The Typhoon can be used with both CMs and torpedoes and its bonus to apply damage is relevant to both types of missiles.

I think the Raven needs to be improved so that it is at least on par with the Typhoon. In general, I think that the attack battleships need to be faster than the fastest combat battleship.

@Hagika
You are probably right... and that is the sad part of it that CCP will not at least provide some feedback - I knew from the beginning that it was a utopian hope to get a reply... but I had to try.
Actually, it seems that the Caldari BS thread seems to have received the least feedback when compared to the other BS threads, which you could construe that Caldari are not really in CCP's focus... which is probably not a big surprise either... for after all, hey they are "just" Caldari ships... who cares???

@Hagika
Although the recent could be construed as CCP is having a bias against the Caldari (for whatever reasons/whether consciously or unconsciously) CCP will never admit to such a bias (I will be really surprised if they do!)...