How will this affect the Raven State Issue?

How will this affect the Raven State Issue?

We have a special balance pass in mind for you entity.

The scorpion is almost worthless at this point. It used to be literally the most OP ship in the game - twice. But now, with the multiple nerfs to ECM, it's inability to speed, sig, or armor tank, and the latest nerf to ECM in the way of skills that can boost your sensor strength, I just don't see why anyone would ever fly it.
It costs 15x blackbird, and two blackbirds would be better. It costs the same as a falcon and, tbh, has a similar train time, but the falcon is better in every conceivable way. It's the only battleship without a bonus to either damage or tank; it is a strictly PVP ship - it's just a solution for a question that no one asks anymore.

I'll quote what I said in the Reddit thread:



I really wish something would be done about the scorpion. Since 2008 or so, ECM has been nerfed many times (at least 3 that I remember); it is only marginally effective, and even then only when you fill every mid and low slot for jamming, with maybe holding back two slots for tank.

So, basically, it's a ship that's only effective when hero tanked, and yet it's primaried first in almost every fleet I've been in, so what's the point? It's not cost effective, it's not mobile, it's not effective at jamming for more than a couple of cycles before it explodes, it has little to no tank, no PVE role.... Its role needs to be rethought, IMO.

Raven, unless you make some drastic changes to the torps or cruises this ship continues to be bad

I'll echo what others have said. It makes no sense to me that the Caldari, the missile race, has less damage application with missiles than the typhoon. The typhoon with an explosion velocity bonus will deal more of its damage to its targets. I'm having a hard time seeing why I would fly a raven over a typhoon.

Raven:

Caldari Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% bonus to Cruise and Torpedo Launcher rate of fire
+10% bonus to Cruise Missile Torpedo Velocity

Slot layout: 7H(-1), 7M(+1), 5L; 0 turrets , 6 launchers
Fittings: 11000 PWG(+1500), 750(+50) CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 6800(-700) / 5800(-841) / 6400(-241)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / recharge per second) : 5500(+187.5) / 1160s / 4.74
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 113(+19) / .12(-.008) / 99300000 / 16.52s (-1.1s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(-25) / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 85 / 7
Sensor strength: 22 Gravimetric
Signature radius: 420(-50)

Rokh is pretty cool. Haven't gone on one of our fabulous Rokh fleets however due to its 300mil price tag however.

Raven is still just a PvE beginner ship as far as most are concerned.

The scorpion is still the scorpion. Hopefully it will be much less squishy from here on out. This might be too drastic, but perhaps switching some hi slots for lows would allow it to survive a bit longer on the battlefield. I know its dishing out ECM punishment, but I feel that a battleship class ship simply shouldn't melt as fast as it always seems to when it gets shot at by anything decent. More lows would allow a much better armor tank, at least buffer wise, to be fit, which would be more befitting of a battleship. Now a pilot can focus on projecting ECM pain instead of wondering how many mids to dedicate to a wimpy shield tank at the cost of less ECM mods.

I'll echo what others have said. It makes no sense to me that the Caldari, the missile race, has less damage application with missiles than the typhoon. The typhoon with an explosion velocity bonus will deal more of its damage to its targets. I'm having a hard time seeing why I would fly a raven over a typhoon.

The Raven was already hilariously light on EHP, so I'm not so sold on the giant smack to shield HP. The change to sig radius is pretty powerful and may offset the EHP loss, but it was sooooo light on EHP already...

At any rate, I also really appreciated the ability to fit 2 utility highs, but the trade for an extra mid is pretty acceptable. The drone bandwidth nerf is unnoticeable from my perspective. The mobility change seems pretty light for an attack BS, but maybe the nano Raven was better than I ever gave it credit for.

-Liang

It is really hard to give constuctive feedback on ships where the weapon system changes have not been released yet. The Raven really has not made me want to fly these but maybe after the Large Missile changes it will come out in the end.

scorpion needs more scan resolution.

It needs a high switched to a low. Everyone has said this...also, fix its split weapons, give it 5 of one of them...it should be able to fight well if shield fit with less ECM but mount a pretty decent tank with low DPS if armor fit with full ECM. These things would constitute switching a high to a 5th low slot and giving a 5th turret/missile slot.

the raven, if you are going to reduce it's tank, needs even more speed than that. megathron is going 120, so how about making the raven 118?



also,

I really don't see the need to reduce resist bonuses...it's like saying "screw you!" to fleet fights expecting them to ever use active tanked ships...

It needs less scan res, not more

Raven:
The (cavalry)Raven is becoming the Caldari attack battleship. Its bonuses were a natural fit already, and although its giving up some base hitpoints, the substantial increase to speed and added mid should open up plenty of new opportunities for Caldari missile pilots without hurting anyone who was already happy using it.

they need to nerf down rockets and HAMs before they look at buffing them

Scorpion:

The Scorpion, while being an oddity in the battleship line up, seems fairly happy. We have adjusted its hitpoints slightly, so they would roughly match the attack set, but otherwise there are no changes.

Caldari Battleship Skill Bonuses:
15% bonus to ECM Target Jammer strength
25% bonus to ECM Target Jammer optimal and falloff range
25% bonus to ECM Burst range

Slot layout: 6H, 8M, 4L; 4 turrets , 4 launchers
Fittings: 9000 PWG, 750 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 7000(+359) / 5500 / 6500(+1031)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / recharge per second) : 5500(+187.5) / 1087s / 5.06
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 94 / .116 / 103600000 / 16.66s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 75 / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 90km / 110 / 7
Sensor strength: 24 Gravimetric
Signature radius: 480

it's slower than a snorlax rolling uphills

So I just compared speed & agility all the ships after changes.
TL;DR: Raven is out classed by the Typhoon and will remain a worthless ship past newbies doing PVE.



New mobility statistics (best to worst)

Align Time: Typhoon 15.8 > Megathron 15.96 > Apocalypse 16.02 > Hyperion 16.36 > Raven 16.52 > Scorpion 16.66 > Dominix 16.88 > Tempest 17.18 > Armageddon 19.96 > Maelstrom 19.53 > Rokh 19.85 > Abaddon 20.03

Max Velocity: Typhoon 130 > Megathron 122 > Temptest 120 > Hyperion 115 > Apocalypse 113 > Raven 113 > Dominix 109 > Armageddon 100 > Scorpion 94 > Maelstrom 94 > Rokh 89 > Abaddon 89

Agility: Typhoon 0.11 > Scorpion 0.116 > Megathron 0.117 > Hyperion 0.1178 > Apocalypse > 0.119 > Tempest 0.12 > Raven 0.12 > Dominix 0.1254 > Armageddon 0.13 > Maelstrom 0.136 > Rokh 0.136 > Abaddon 0.14

Mass: Apocalypse 97100000 > Magathron 98400000 > Raven 99300000 > Hyperion 100200000 > Dominix 100250000 > Tempest 103300000 > Typhoon 103600000 > Scorpion 103600000 > Maelstrom 103600000 > Armageddon 105200000 > Rokh 105300000 > Abaddon 125000000

So I would assume that the Gallente ships are faster and more agile to counter the fact they tend to be armour tanked and use blasters which need to be used up close. Although the Hyperion without Trimarks or Plates making use of its repair bonus will be faster.

The Raven has the ability (with all skills V) to fire cruise missiles up to 253km and Torpedo's 30km which isn't really a great bonus over the 168 Cruise and 20 Torpedo ranges of the Typhoon, a ship which according to the stats will be able to get in close faster and gain a substantial bonus to its damage via the explosion velocity bonus.

Now even in a PVE sense the Raven's range bonus has no benefit, when was the last time you needed to fire Cruise Missiles past 168km and Torpedo's are just not going to be hitting for good damage without at least two Target Painters.

Unless Keep in mind that we will be taking a more detailed look at battleship sized missile systems in the near future. means something which makes an extended flight time and faster missile hits worth while then the Raven will still remain as worthless ship in PVP and a suboptimal ship in PVE.

If I have misunderstandings on any of this please feel free to correct me. However it seems that once again Caldari will remain the slow cumbersome ships of EVE because of those heavy shields they carry around.

I think these changes make Gallente have a pretty bad line-up. The Dominix is now clearly inferior to the proposed Armageddon. I never had issues with range or tracking of drones and it will lack drone control range to make much use of the range bonus to sentry drones. The Mega I guess will fill the hole left by the hype as a shield gank ship but I still think there is room for a buffer fit armour ship which the new look mega will not perform as well in. The hype is now pretty much good for nothing in my eyes. It will almost certainly underperform dual ASB Rohks and Mealstroms and offer pretty much no utility in its mids now to compensate. If you are going to persist with making it an active armour ship then at the minimum it needs more PG.

+10% bonus to Cruise Missile Torpedo Velocity

What the fuck does that even means?

What about the CNR?

Indeed the Raven has absolutely no place in PVP because it's slower than a snorlax rolling uphills, the damage application is ass and in the face of the Typhoon it's bleh. So it's basically a purely dedicated PVE ship, which I'm fine with because carebears.

What the fuck does that even means?

Rokh:

Caldari Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+10% to large Hybrid Turret optimal range
+4% Shield resistances per level (-1% per level)

Slot layout: 8H, 6M, 5L; 8 turrets , 0 launchers

If Raven is a crap for PvP it doesn't mean it will rock in PvE.
I'm an old carebear and I have NO idea how this ship fits PvE.
Those bonuses are just a crap for any situation.

Gief me Shield Boost bonus instead of range one or make that range bonus useful while using Torps.

Slot layout: 8H, 6M, 5L; 8 turrets , 0 launchers

This is just a typo, the Rokh will keep its launchers. Sorry about that!

I'll quote what I said in the Reddit thread:



I really wish something would be done about the scorpion. Since 2008 or so, ECM has been nerfed many times (at least 3 that I remember); it is only marginally effective, and even then only when you fill every mid and low slot for jamming, with maybe holding back two slots for tank.

So, basically, it's a ship that's only effective when hero tanked, and yet it's primaried first in almost every fleet I've been in, so what's the point? It's not cost effective, it's not mobile, it's not effective at jamming for more than a couple of cycles before it explodes, it has little to no tank, no PVE role.... Its role needs to be rethought, IMO.

Raven

Seriously, it's impossible to give feedback on the Raven when we don't know what's going to happen with torps or cruise. I don't understand why those changes aren't being done at the same time.

As it stands, the torp velocity bonus is not very useful because it only increases the range of torps from ~20 km to ~30 km. This would be great if the Raven was able to kite in that region, but "kite" and "Raven will never be used together", the Raven simply doesn't have the mobility to keep a target in that window and hence make good use of the bonus. Nor, with 20 km base range on torps, is the bonus powerful enough to give a good damage projection advantage over the Typhoon. Now, if you turn round and say you're upping the range of torps by 50-75%, this would change things - but we don't know your plans for torps...

As for cruise, well, the extra range from the missile velocity bonus is not useful at all. The reduced flight time is vaguely useful; the greater ease of hitting fast targets is also only slightly useful - as seen by Drake blobs, whose HMs are able to chase down fast targets despite the lack of a missile velocity bonus. Cruise needs much more help than torps, and may well consist of speed and damage bonuses, but it's impossible to judge the value of a future cruise Raven and give feedback on these changes until we know what's happening with cruise!

The Raven is renowned for being flimsy. Getting an extra medslot is nice; losing base HP at the same time is silly. In a world of ABCs, BS need a very substantially superior tank to make up for the reduced mobility.

New raven may be faster than the drake...

Yea, at this point, its like "Hey! All of the best tech 1 BS's are getting slightly worse! One other battleship is getting slightly better, but other than that, Status Quo!". Is there any reason to fly tech 1 BS's over strategic cruisers at this point?

I think the Rokh should have a damage bonus instead of optimal. It really should, imo, be able to do more dps then a Naga.

Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 113(+19) / .12(-.008) / 99300000 / 16.52s (-1.1s)

You should really give the Scorpion a 5/8/5 layout since it is primarily armor fit.

We have a special balance pass in mind for you entity.

Missiles have extreme travel times but even projectiles travel at the speed of light. (Interesting physics you have here)

What a joke.

Let's see, you make all the other ex-tier 1 bs's awesome, and finally the scorp has a chance to be fixed and all you do next to nothing. I mean come on, you talk about it being the only 'disruptor' BS, yet the 'geddon is going to be disrupting a hell of a lot more than this piece of junk will.

The Rokh. Oh dear. Were you guys just bored and felt that one ship needed to be shat on so it may aswell be the usual whipping boy?

For ****'s sake, you take this super slow ship, with no damage bonus, and you nerf it?? You ******* nerfed it?! Just... Wow.

The abaddon has got much more going for it than the rokh ever did so you can't even compare them. Change that ****** optimal bonus and give it a damage bonus like you have done with so many other ships lately. Then maybe it would be a fair change.

Also regarding the 4% bonus: Stop blaming RR, it's a pathetic excuse, that's like blaming the bread for being burnt by the toaster.

And the Raven... I can't... I mean... What??!?! You take away HP (ffs why???) and change some slots around, the extra speed and sig do not justify this.

And as if that bullshit excuse about "oh missiles are changing soon so just trust us guys!" can fly, the typhoon will get those same boosts too ya' know so at least have the balls to admit you just don't want the raven to ever be viable.

/rant.

That is one mad dude over there.

The Rokh didn't change at all except for a VERY LIGHT EHP REDUCTION. Very light means it will lose maybe 8k EHP. It's safe to say that the Rokh didn't change at all. It became a good fleet ship with the Hybrid changes, and will still be a good fleet ship after those changes. A damage bonus wouldn't hurt, that's for sure. But I like both bonuses. It just happens to be a range bonus. I'm alright with it.

The Raven got the ability to be fit as it's supposed to be (ie with T2 launchers, a heavy neut, a propmod and a proper shield tank) with the extra goodness of +1 medslot. While I still doubt the usability of the Raven in both fleets and small gangs because of the torps themselves, I think that it became better overall. 7 Medslots means you can fit a MWD, 2 LSE, Invul, Invul, Scrambler, Targetpainter. That kind of tank isn't stellar, sure. But at least it can apply more damage that you ever could while still keeping some EHP.

The main problem remains the weapon system. And the issue is pretty simple to understand. Torps don't have anywhere near enough range, and it's quite hard to apply full damage, even with multiple painters. If that is fixed, the Raven is mostly fixed.

The second most important problem the Raven encounters is its capacitor. It's bad beyond measure. Can't move around with the MWD without emptying it in seconds.

The Scorpion could have gotten +1 lowslot -1 highslot, that would have gave him either more jamming power or more armor tank. Considering the ECM nerfs, I think it would have been a good change.

If Raven is a crap for PvP it doesn't mean it will rock in PvE.
I'm an old carebear and I have NO idea how this ship fits PvE.
Those bonuses are just a crap for any situation.

Gief me Shield Boost bonus instead of range one or make that range bonus useful while using Torps.

CCP Rise have you considered reducing the Rokh's optimal range bonus to say 7.5% or 5% in exchange for more speed and reduced mass or even a combo of damage and range?

Some thoughts about the scorp...

-remove the range bonus entirely replace with a 5% missile damage bonus
-reduce drone bandwidth to 50 like raven
- buff its speed

But could anyone tell me when you actualy choose a Attack BS over a ABC?

The Rokh didn't change at all except for a VERY LIGHT EHP REDUCTION. Very light means it will lose maybe 8k EHP. It's safe to say that the Rokh didn't change at all. It became a good fleet ship with the Hybrid changes, and will still be a good fleet ship after those changes.

Theoretically, for the fleets. ABCs are very squishy ehp-wise, so in theory, an attack battleship would have more standing power. Problem is, most attack battleships have worse damage application than ABCs, their tanks aren't all that great, while ABCs also provide massively superior mobility (and in turn, speed tank).

Just an fyi man.

You can't have 9 medslots.

Doesn't work.

Im so TIRED of even looking at the Raven. I like the Scorpion with blaster cannons and alot of tank. I just wish it could do MORE damage. Large missiles are TERRIBUB and Im TIRED of even looking at them much less hearing about them.

Personally. I think large missiles should be abandoned by the Caldari with thier battleship line or there needs to be bonuses specific to brining down explosion vel and rad by the RAVEN. Allowing it to do MASSIVE DAMAGE with SIEGE MISSILES TO CRUISERS.

Otherwise. F*ck IT!


- killz

Ok so everyone here thinks the Raven is now still crap, here is a hint:

N A N O R A V E N

Raven:

The (cavalry)Raven is becoming the Caldari attack battleship. Its bonuses were a natural fit already, and although its giving up some base hitpoints, the substantial increase to speed and added mid should open up plenty of new opportunities for Caldari missile pilots without hurting anyone who was already happy using it.

Its also gaining power grid and CPU output so that torp focused fits and fits that want to use propulsion mods are more easily accessible. Keep in mind that we will be taking a more detailed look at battleship sized missile systems in the near future.

Caldari Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% bonus to Cruise and Torpedo Launcher rate of fire
+10% bonus to Cruise Missile Torpedo Velocity

Slot layout: 7H(-1), 7M(+1), 5L; 0 turrets , 6 launchers
Fittings: 11000 PWG(+1500), 750(+50) CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 6800(-700) / 5800(-841) / 6400(-241)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / recharge per second) : 5500(+187.5) / 1160s / 4.74
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 113(+19) / .12(-.008) / 99300000 / 16.52s (-1.1s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(-25) / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 85 / 7
Sensor strength: 22 Gravimetric
Signature radius: 420(-50)

Quite substantial changes CCP Rise.

The Raven is now a little bit more nimbler than before, a few people here think it is still a slow boat, but they don't realize its the top 3 lightest battleships which means it accelerates faster and aligns faster. The other 2 lighter battleships are the Armageddon and the Megathron, but that changes once you throw Plates on them, so essentially the Raven is the lightest Battleship, which means fast align, fast acceleration and benefits better from speed boosting modules. So what i gather from this is Nano Raven now!

There is still few few problems with it:
Typhoon has quite a higher DPS, this i fine as the Typhoon is designed to brawl and the raven is a kite, the problem is Torpedo and Cruise Missile Explosion Velocity and Explosion Radius.
Typhoon also can fit more Tank on board compared to the Raven which is fine as i said above one being a brawl and one being a kite.

CCP Rise here is what I believe needs to be done to bring the Raven into a position where the Typhoon isn't the Dominant only.

Caldari Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% bonus to Cruise and Torpedo Launcher rate of fire
+10% bonus to Cruise Missile Torpedo Velocity

Slot layout: 7H(-1), 7M(+1), 5L; 0 turrets , 7(+1) launchers
Fittings: 12250 PWG(+2250), 820(+120) CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 6800(-700) / 5800(-841) / 6400(-241)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / recharge per second) : 5500(+187.5) / 1160s / 4.74
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 118(+24) / .12(-.008) / 99300000 / 16.52s (-1.1s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(-25) / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 85 / 7
Sensor strength: 22 Gravimetric
Signature radius: 400(-70)

Those changes i think will do it, let me know what you think.

EDIT: Torpedo and Cruise Missile Explosion Radius and Explosion Velocity need to be fixed.

[Quite substantial changes CCP Rise.

The Raven is now a little bit more nimbler than before, a few people here think it is still a slow boat, but they don't realize its the top 3 lightest battleships which means it accelerates faster and aligns faster. The other 2 lighter battleships are the Armageddon and the Megathron, but that changes once you throw Plates on them, so essentially the Raven is the lightest Battleship, which means fast align, fast acceleration and benefits better from speed boosting modules. So what i gather from this is Nano Raven now!

Here are the mobility stats next to eachother, but I see something diferent than you in them


Align Time: Typhoon 15.8 > Megathron 15.96 > Apocalypse 16.02 > Hyperion 16.36 > Raven 16.52 > Scorpion 16.66 > Dominix 16.88 > Tempest 17.18 > Armageddon 19.96 > Maelstrom 19.53 > Rokh 19.85 > Abaddon 20.03

Max Velocity: Typhoon 130 > Megathron 122 > Temptest 120 > Hyperion 115 > Apocalypse 113 > Raven 113 > Dominix 109 > Armageddon 100 > Scorpion 94 > Maelstrom 94 > Rokh 89 > Abaddon 89

Agility: Typhoon 0.11 > Scorpion 0.116 > Megathron 0.117 > Hyperion 0.1178 > Apocalypse > 0.119 > Tempest 0.12 > Raven 0.12 > Dominix 0.1254 > Armageddon 0.13 > Maelstrom 0.136 > Rokh 0.136 > Abaddon 0.14

Mass: Apocalypse 97100000 > Magathron 98400000 > Raven 99300000 > Hyperion 100200000 > Dominix 100250000 > Tempest 103300000 > Typhoon 103600000 > Scorpion 103600000 > Maelstrom 103600000 > Armageddon 105200000 > Rokh 105300000 > Abaddon 125000000

In these stats it is the slowest Attack battleship, The clumsiest, and the slowest away from the gate. at some point even the non attack battleships are faster.

aside from pure mass The Typhoon beats it everywhere.

This is just a typo, the Rokh will keep its launchers. Sorry about that!

I feel the resist bonus is out of place on the rokh. If you want a sniper go with a naga, if you want a heavier sniper then change the resist bonus to damage to match the naga. Half a brawler, half a sniper doesn't make a viable ship.

I feel the resist bonus is out of place on the rokh. If you want a sniper go with a naga, if you want a heavier sniper then change the resist bonus to damage to match the naga. Half a brawler, half a sniper doesn't make a viable ship.

Range isn't only good for sniping.

25% damage bonus is the Naga's territory, if you like it so much fly that. The Rokh has always been a tank boat, and making it into an overpowered Naga won't make the Caldari Navy better. Also, blasters have significant drawbacks, they are good, but you pay for it in several ways. Not the least of which is their abysmal range, the worst in the game.

The nerfs to the Raven EHP are way to much. It was already thin before with 2 LSE II and 2 Invuls. 1 extra mid slot will not make that much difference. And most of us would like to fit a TP/web/MJD etc in that newly opened slots. Instead it will go to another LSE or an EM field II to patch up this miserable tank.

And don't let the "Why does the phoon get the damage amp bonus?" get you down. That velocity bonus is gold when it comes to actually using torps. Also, I look forward to you fixing Torps/CMs. It's been a long, long time coming.

Ok so everyone here thinks the Raven is now still crap, here is a hint:

N A N O R A V E N

You mean the Typhoon, right? Nano typhoon will slap the **** out of a nano Raven, I am positive.

Raven mobility: 113

Tempest mobility: 120

The slow combat BS is faster then a fast attack BS.

and most of all we dont want to get back in frigate raping raven's shooting you at 250km away

Its designed to kite at close range with Blasters, the only reason Rails were used was when they were good 3+ years ago til they got nerf bat

As it stands right now, a rokh will never snipe because it's outperformed in every way by a naga. As such, blasters are the only viable option for a rokh. However, if it got a damage bonus instead, rails would actually do enough damage to be viable. Blasters would lose range, and be niche.

Right now, rokh is fitted with blasters only as a brawler.

Hmm? The c-types are sold at a very resonable price, if you can afford a rokh hull, you shouldnt have any problems affording a c-type MWD.

I'll quote what I said in the Reddit thread:



I really wish something would be done about the scorpion. Since 2008 or so, ECM has been nerfed many times (at least 3 that I remember); it is only marginally effective, and even then only when you fill every mid and low slot for jamming, with maybe holding back two slots for tank.

So, basically, it's a ship that's only effective when hero tanked, and yet it's primaried first in almost every fleet I've been in, so what's the point? It's not cost effective, it's not mobile, it's not effective at jamming for more than a couple of cycles before it explodes, it has little to no tank, no PVE role.... Its role needs to be rethought, IMO.

What about the raven? You mention 0 turrets, but it currently has 4, and there is no (-4) notation.

With the missiles. Would not having 2 types of cruise missile and buffing torps be a good idea?

Example:

- Long range cruise missiles.
Have faster travel time and sligtly lower explosion radius, current dps

- Short range cruise missiles
Around 35km range, decent dps (think ultraviolet damage and range), slightly higher explosion radius and slower travel time

I would seriously consider making the scorpion a Caldari drone boat, it would give it much needed versatility and actual viability in a lot more situations without making it OP.

The T1-->T2 lineup is being balanced around T1=general --> T2=specialised but the poor Scorpion is a T1 hull but with a specialised role, and more unusually only a single viable role outside of baitfit.

If you were to give the Scorpion a drone-based bonus it would result in the drone battleships becoming:

Gallente - Dominix. Drones on crack

Amarr - Armageddon. Drones + EWAR (Neuts)

Caldari - Scorpion. Drones + EWAR (ECM)

Would this not be a sensible option? It wouldn't remove the ECM that people want from the Scorp, you could still fit it as many do now with max ECM and an armour tank and sacrifice your drone dps in the process (no room for DDAs) so it wouldn't lose it's current limited role. It also removes that awkward 'disruption battleship' moniker reserved for this one ship.

It feel it would really play to the strengths of the hull and eliminate one of the main reasons the Scorpion in currently sidelined (jammed first by that T2 falcon with his quicker lock time? Your newly bonused drones are off to say hello), and would become a viable ship for many more fleet compositions, though rightly not able to attain the dps of the Dominix or Armageddon due to its slot layout.

Maybe we could call the short-range type "torpedoes"?

I would seriously consider making the scorpion a Caldari drone boat, it would give it much needed versatility and actual viability in a lot more situations without making it OP.

The T1-->T2 lineup is being balanced around T1=general --> T2=specialised but the poor Scorpion is a T1 hull but with a specialised role, and more unusually only a single viable role outside of baitfit.

If you were to give the Scorpion a drone-based bonus it would result in the drone battleships becoming:

Gallente - Dominix. Drones on crack

Amarr - Armageddon. Drones + EWAR (Neuts)

Caldari - Scorpion. Drones + EWAR (ECM)

Would this not be a sensible option? It wouldn't remove the ECM that people want from the Scorp, you could still fit it as many do now with max ECM and an armour tank and sacrifice your drone dps in the process (no room for DDAs) so it wouldn't lose it's current limited role. It also removes that awkward 'disruption battleship' moniker reserved for this one ship.

It feel it would really play to the strengths of the hull and eliminate one of the main reasons the Scorpion in currently sidelined (jammed first by that T2 falcon with his quicker lock time? Your newly bonused drones are off to say hello), and would become a viable ship for many more fleet compositions, though rightly not able to attain the dps of the Dominix or Armageddon due to its slot layout.

You missed the point there. The suggestion was to give cruise missiles ammo versatility the same way a projectile ship can switch between fusion and titanium sabbot at different ranges.

Admittedly, it requires a little extra training time, and more for the battleship weapons, but the other gun types don't get that thing you're describing without T2 ammo, either.

What? Every weapons system except for missiles gets variable ammunition choices at purely t1 with no training.

Projectiles: Fusion et al for close range, Titanium Sabbot et al for longer range / better tracking
Hybrids: Antimatter for up close blasting, Lead et al for longer ranges
Lasers: Multifrequency at point blank all the way out to Radio at extreme range

These are all in addition to the T2 close/long range ammo choices, although scorch renders the laser t1 ammo aside from MF completely pointless