Add in squad bonuses.

The rest of your post is an argument that ECM on a tanked Scorp is so weak that the Scorpion should not be primaried. But Scorpions still get primaried. Your argument is internally contradictory - either decide that Scorps are so weak that nobody primaries then and hence tank is unimportant, or that they need a decent tank because they do get primaried because they are a threat.

Do you realy think that the buffed scorpion will be viable, especially as its cost probably will be increased by a lot ?

Why should i add squad bonuses? I never add them.

Let me guess, you put them face to face, standing still and just shot till one died....

That doesnt exclude the fact that the raven is still a sub par pvp ship compared to the others.

Maybe he put them 25km apart.

The range bonus on the Raven is kind of a big deal with torps, you know.

Why would the Scorpion become more expensive? Did they increase the mineral requirements to build one?

More fool you, then. Squad bonuses are available to everyone in a squad with an appropriately-skilled (not hard) and valid squad booster. If you never add them then you're either soloing a lot or doing it wrong, and since we're talking about a Scorp, the chances are that it's the latter.

this is from the main ccp post:
"Cost of production will be adjusted to reflect tiericide, but so far we have not settled on exact numbers."
probably tier 1 bs will cost more , we will see



Cause it gives the same buff for every ship in exactly the same way, thats why it is not needed to apply it as you can compare every ship to eachother without the squad bonus.
I bet most people post their eft stats without the squad bonus applied.

Why would the Scorpion become more expensive? Did they increase the mineral requirements to build one?

Is this supposed to be signature radii balance?

Armageddon 450 (+80)
Apocalypse 380 (-20)
Abaddon 470

Typhoon 330 (+10)
Tempest 360 (+20)
Maelstrom 460

Scorpion 480
Raven 420 (-50)
Rokh 500

Dominix 465 (+45)
Megathron 380 (-20)
Hyperion 485

it is ridiculous that the phoon only has an extra 20 sig radius than the brutix.. have they seen the difference in size between the ships/classes?
Bc's should have much less sig radius.

I VETO THIS PROPOSAL!
_________________________________
*Warning explicit language alert*

Are you f*cking kidding me! Caldari ships are completely worthless in PvP. The Rokh is the only anyone uses. And that mostly as a long-range sniper. Do you even look at your kill-board stats?

Ravens both standard and Navy Issue are not useful in PvP. You might have only a few compared to hundreds of kills compared to any other BS in the game.

Scorpion, I don't give a d'mn about what you claim. But the whole premise of the scorpion is bullshit. ECM boats with the recent skills that fortify sensor strength are practically worthless. As others have pointed out, if they last at all it is maybe for 2-3 cycles of their jammers. Then is it pop and back to hisec you go. Make it a combat battleship that actually is worth something!

I agree 100% with the remarks that missiles are complete crap wrt pvp compared to turrets. Missile mechanics are terrible. Why do I have to put up with a flight time that is barely shorter than sending Light Combat drones the distance? If we want to talk lore, drones which are 6m long at the shortest have MWDs, AI cores etc. Why the h*ll can't you people 'put a mwd' on missile? Thereby reducing flight-time so we can actually use our missiles at full range. Rather than sticking them up the other guy's tail?!

Continuing the remarks on missiles, what is with the Kinetic damage bonuses?! Are you trying to make caldari missile ships worthless in pvp? Cause you are succeeding so d*mn well I would give you a gold medal. Missiles are not even close to balanced compared to turrets or drones. End of story!

One last thing, resistance bonuses are instrumental in keeping Caldari ships remotely useful. Shield tanking is the only one that has a 0% hole in the default bonuses. If you add up the resistances across the board for Armor and Shield; shield is indisputably disadvantaged. The 5% resistance/level bonuses on Caldari ships is the only thing that allows pilot to stand a chance of competing with armor tankers.

I will urge you to rethink your proposal and actually look at the data with unbaised eyes. Since some of your devs seem to confuse their personal playing with their work.

(Minmatar are called Winmatar on the forums for a reason you know...)

suggest to replace the bonus velocity for bonus explosion radius

suggest to replace the bonus velocity for bonus explosion radius

The Reason because we think so is: in a Real fleet battle the Tank the Rokh fields barely matters, because hundreds of ships are shooting on the primary it doesnt matter if the sniper in question has 25k or 90k ehp.

We have a special balance pass in mind for you entity.

does this even really matter? why would changing bonuses on unobtainable, and unused ships even matter? there are soo many unused ships in EVE that it seems pointless to even mention them anymore. Make the RSI and other ships available to all players and then it might have some effect. CCP is always removing unused items and stuff from the database i am surprised that these ELITE BS haven't been removed as well since no one can get they and no one uses them.

does this even really matter? why would changing bonuses on unobtainable, and unused ships even matter? there are soo many unused ships in EVE that it seems pointless to even mention them anymore. Make the RSI and other ships available to all players and then it might have some effect. CCP is always removing unused items and stuff from the database i am surprised that these ELITE BS haven't been removed as well since no one can get they and no one uses them.

Hey there everyone,
Ill take the freedom of sum up the opinions here

Raven
We are relatively ok with the changes for the raven, she gained a great deal of speed there, and a little agility. The loss of tank makes up for the additional tank fitting possibility.

Hey there everyone,
Ill take the freedom of sum up the opinions here

Raven
We are relatively ok with the changes for the raven, she gained a great deal of speed there, and a little agility. The loss of tank makes up for the additional tank fitting possibility.

Scorpion
Most of the Players are not OK with the Scorpion as it is... and the change hitting with Odyssey just makes them realize and think over all the things they dislike about the slow, not very resilient, unbattleshiplike (no damage bonuses) ECM Boat that is seldomly flown. We think the Scorpion is not fine because we are not ok with ECM in general.

Rokh
There are various remarks about the rokh, most ppl know her as Sniper for Years, which is working. Some People, like me, see the Naga as an outrage in this case, because it does the sniping better than the Rokh. The Reason because we think so is: in a Real fleet battle the Tank the Rokh fields barely matters, because hundreds of ships are shooting on the primary it doesnt matter if the sniper in question has 25k or 90k ehp. What Matters is, that the Naga locks faster, does more damage and applys the damage exactly as the rokh does, while being more agile and faster as the rokh.

if there any additional details i missed please feel free to add it in here

have a nice day

Jitoru

Have you actually read the new specs? I too am a dedicated caldari pilot At least on one of my toons. I fly the Raven a lot, completed over 1000 lvl 4 missions with it. I never said the Raven was crappy, just that it's tank was barely adequate. True the Raven can be fit with a very good tank. But in doing so the DPS is far to low to be an efficient mission runner. As an experienced level 4 mission runner, any fit that includes CCC rigs is a fail. At worst fit a cap booster, but do not sacrifice DPS for tank. Gank is tank when running missions.

My raven is fit for DPS with cruise missiles, It does well over 700 DPS, and with 2 rigor rigs and a flare rig it applies that DPS very well out past 50km, a range that is needed in level 4 missions. You need this kind of DPS to compete with other mission running fits. If you are happy with 400-500 DPS then you are better off running missions with the Drake as it will do 400-500 DPS and still have a better tank. My Raven can complete missions almost as fast as a Mach. At a fraction of the price.

If you have not noticed the changes coming with Odyssey bring a significant reduction of the ravens tank. -500 shields HP, - 841 armor, and - 241 hull. 500 shield HP may not sound like much, but with 75% resists that is 2000 EHP. The extra mid slot should more than make up for this lost tank, but does not really add any utility. An extra mid slot would have been nice for a Target painter, or e-war, but now you need to use it for tank to compensate for the cuts to its already mediocre tank.

The raven has also had a little boost to CPU and power grid ans well as a small buff to its capacitor. As I said, I never said the Raven was crappy, only that I would have to test these changes to see if it was actually a buff, or a nerf in disguise. I

Now on to the Scorpion. ECM has been nerfed to hell. ECM is nearly useless in PVE. Missiles are nearly useless in PVP. So what situation is this ship used for?

The Scorpion is the worst ship in its class for DPS. It has a decent tank, but is set up as primarily an ECM boat. Why does nobody complain about other races not having an ECM battleship? One simple fact, because they suck and nobody wants or uses them. If an ECM battleship was a good idea every none caldari pilot would be complaining their race did not have one. Making the Scorpions primary purpose ECM, makes the ship near worthless.

[snip]
I