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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Velicitia
Nex Exercitus
1425
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 13:24:00 -
[331] - Quote
thing is, your comparison for 2 is flawed in that you're talking about access to space/land.
Older players are not getting anything that the newer players cannot get. CCP's not locking you into (or out of) anything after the patch.
A better example (still horribly flawed) is that
1. US changes driving laws in 2014 that you need a "standard transmission" license if you want to drive a car with standard (manual) transmission. 2. anyone with a current licence is granted "std transmission" license, provided that they own/lease a car with a standard transmission. 3. anyone who isn't licensed by 01/01/14 (or doesn't have a std transmission car) defaults to the "automatic transmission only" license, but can test to have the "full" license.
That's all that CCP is changing/adding with the skill change things.
After this patch, you're "encouraged" by the skill trees to stick more with one race -- not that you're encouraged these days to train everything -- specialization >>>>>>>>> versatility.
For example, I could only fly an Oneiros for months before I even considered being ready (support-skills wise) to fly any of the other logi boats. Amarr was the easiest (just needed energy transfers), but Basi/Scimi took forever (shield tanking, remote shield xfer, etc). One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia Malcanis for CSM8 |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
206
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 13:24:00 -
[332] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Quote:complains bitterly when people point out your error. How do u detect my bitterness? Telepathy? More likely just a bold phrase (all your phrases are bold actually)
I wonder how on earth anyone could confuse you for being bitter, to me you come across as a happy little butterfly. :)
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Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
206
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 13:30:00 -
[333] - Quote
Deaconn Frostt wrote:Instead of trying to give reasons why you haven't trained them start looking into possibilities that will get them trained. By getting these trained you will save yourself about 90 days worth of training on all the iv and v racial cruiser training by my calculations, correct me if I'm wrong.
What I find amusing is that you new players do not realise is that training every single racial and battlecruiser to level V is really not necessary at all especially for such young players, and in some cases it is actually detrimental as your skill clone cost is soaring.
But I can't blame you for trying to max out your skills as this knowledge comes with experience. I'm only sticking to two of the racial BC myself as have no need for the other two. My suggestion would be to go for level IV on each skill, that will give you more that enough benefit and you will still be capable of flying each BC if you wish for a fraction of the time. Then you can train soemthing which is actually fun. :) |
De'Veldrin
East India Ore Trade The East India Co.
1344
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 13:33:00 -
[334] - Quote
silens vesica wrote:Tippia wrote:Nathalie LaPorte wrote:...except that he didn't use the word "thought", but he did use the word "bad", in the 4 sentence excerpt under discussion. GǪand it's still my view of the skill tree that was in question GÇö i.e. what I thought about it. Not that it matters, the non-sequitur is the same: GÇ£improvementGÇ¥ does not mean that it was bad before. "New and Improved" only means that the previous version was "Old and Inferior" in comparison to the updated version - This is not an absolute scale, but a relative one.
I have never liked that phrase - New and Improved. If it's New, it's never existed in it's current form before, so how can it be improved? And if you're improving it, doesn't that mean that it was already new at some some previous point in time?
I think the issue is that people are fixated on that word new. New is cool, new is shiny, new is what all the cool kids want. Improved implies it was bad before, when in reality it was only, as pointed out, relatively worse than the existing product.
Also, this thread is now about Bacon and Eggs. (Thanks Tippia, now I'm hungry). Malcanis for CSM 8
Eve Online: The full-contact sport for your brain. Twitter --á@DeVeldrin |
flakeys
Arkham Innovations Paper Tiger Coalition
1020
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 13:36:00 -
[335] - Quote
So changes are made for the benefit of the noobs ....and then we get a noob complaining about how us veterans want it all our way and how this change SO much benefits us.
That alone wasn't enough offcourse , no the OP needed to be one of the most stubborn posters on the forum and keep shouting how unfair it is to the noobs.
These are the times where i want to give the new players the ''old playstyle'' again.Just to show how much it all changed to make it a crapload better for new players.
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1425
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 13:36:00 -
[336] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Abraham Nalelmir wrote:1- I am a new player, I dropped all my Guardian plans, T2 large guns plans, even I delayed hull upgrades 5 just to train BC to 5 2- They "decided" they are responsible for their decision 3- Giving them 2 million SP FREE to allocate anywhere is not fair for me, I who spent 1.5 months maxing out BC & Destroyers with all racial frigates/cruisers skills
I have joined after the titan nerf and after caps were kicked out of high sec, am I entitled to have a titan and a cap in my starting home system? U still get 6mil SP, which is way better than 2. You still don't get it. Those 6 mil SP are locked up - in skills that give him nothing new. You still think those 6 mil SP are going to give an advantage that he doesn't already possess - which is false. SP mean nothing. Ability to fly ships means something. Guess which won't have changed?
Hammer this through your thick head: He will be able to do nothing new with those points, and they will give him precisely the same abilities he has today, and nothing else.
You must be either an incredibly capable troll, or utterly obtuse if you can't understand that.
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote: League of legends only and always helps newer players by slowly cutting advantages of older players. LoL would be the same as EVE if everyone who starts playing that game is forced to purchase characters in their release order. Do u think anyone would play it? Supporting newer players is the only viable option as older players get bored by the game/change lifestyle etc. CCP on the other hand does the opposite. EVE growing year by year. But who are they? New players? Returnig? Alts? LoL has over 30 mil accounts. Can u remind me how much ever-growing EVE has?
League of Legends =! EVE Online
What applies to one game means nothing in the other. That should be clear even to you.
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote: The amount of approving posts here does not imply anything. I'll gain more support as time X comes closer.
No. You'll only gain increasing amounts of contempt. Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13802
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 13:45:00 -
[337] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:A better example (still horribly flawed) is that
1. US changes driving laws in 2014 that you need a "standard transmission" license if you want to drive a car with standard (manual) transmission. 2. anyone with a current licence is granted "std transmission" license, provided that they own/lease a car with a standard transmission. 3. anyone who isn't licensed by 01/01/14 (or doesn't have a std transmission car) defaults to the "automatic transmission only" license, but can test to have the "full" license.
That's all that CCP is changing/adding with the skill change things. Hell, you can even keep the fractured-state scenario:
1. US gets split into UCAS, CAS, NAN and CFS in 2017 after the treaty of Denver. 2. All old US permanent residents are granted quadruple residencies by default, and can thus travel freely just like before. 3. Anyone wanting to become a resident after 2017 has to go the respective embassies to apply for the full set of permanent residencies so they can travel freely too.
The only difference is that the old geezers got it in the mail, whereas the poor newbies have to make those trips to the embassies (which the old ones had to do too, at some point, btw). Oh, and the old guys will have to carry around extra leafs in their old passports to signify this new and complicated setup GÇö something the old passports were not always designed for, and which makes them break more often.
De'Veldrin wrote:I have never liked that phrase - New and Improved. If it's New, it's never existed in it's current form before, so how can it be improved? And if you're improving it, doesn't that mean that it was already new at some some previous point in time? Just mentally inject the word GÇ£versionGÇ¥ and it all works out. Nothing is ever new these days GÇö it's all just revisions (good and bad) of the old. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
206
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 13:48:00 -
[338] - Quote
Miles Harker wrote:Quote: Using +3 implants you'd only gain 350k fewer skillpoints, which is about 1 weeks worth of sub time.
I liken this change to learning skills, you think you're gaining skp by focusing on one thing. However, the best way to gain skillpoints is to enjoy the game so that you don't quit. I've learned this the hard way.
The character bazaar can be used to effectively buy skillpoints if you get good at making ISK.
I don't think I'm gaining skill points; I am gaining skill points and therefore time. Fact. I agree with you that you should do what you enjoy, not try min/max for the sake of it. It is a game. However, my personal circumstances, work etc. and my "long term" view on EVE accommodates the approach I'm currently taking with my skill plan. But that might not necessarily be the right choice for others. Here is one tip which I think may come in useful to you and also many new players who are focusing on long term planning. Something to remember about +5 implants is that a full set of +5 implants is the equivalent price of a PLEX which is a month of training time. I worked this out a long time ago, but basically if you install two +5 implants, one for the primary attribute and one for the secondary attribute, it will take roughly one year of extra training to be as cost efficient as simply buying a PLEX. And this is assuming that your +5 implants actually last for year.
If your looking at a full set of +5 implants then your talking over 2 years of training to match the cost efficiency of simply buying a PLEX.
If you are not concerned about money and have lots of real life money to burn or are very successful at making isk in the game then you can obviously get both. But to play this game smart it is good to think in terms of the opportunity costs of what you are doing despite +5s initially seeming like a good option. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13803
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 14:01:00 -
[339] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:Here is one tip which I think may come in useful to you and also many new players who are focusing on long term planning. Something to remember about +5 implants is that a full set of +5 implants is the equivalent price of a PLEX which is a month of training time. I worked this out a long time ago, but basically if you install two +5 implants, one for the primary attribute and one for the secondary attribute, it will take roughly one year of extra training to be as cost efficient as simply buying a PLEX. And this is assuming that your +5 implants actually last for year. GǪand then there's the whole training time vs. speed gain to consider. It's not quite as large an affect as the ISK, but it's one to consider nevertheless.
The difference in skill training between +3 and +5 implants is 767,250 SP, and that training earns you a training speed increase of 180 more SP per hour (assuming you get a set that always cover what you're going to train). That means it takes 4260 hours / 177 days to earn back the time spent on training the Cybernetics skill. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1425
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 14:02:00 -
[340] - Quote
De'Veldrin wrote: Also, this thread is now about Bacon and Eggs. (Thanks Tippia, now I'm hungry).
Heh. Now I am, too.
Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
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Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
209
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 14:03:00 -
[341] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Thank you for responses. Some of you called me moron/thick-headed/fail-planner etc others gave in-depth explanations which I additionally thank for to voice of reason
And both were correct.
No problem for the responses it is our pleasure. I won't bother reading the rest of your post and will assume you have realised that you were behaving like a self entitled baby, and you have calmed down now we have pointed out to you that you can still achieve BC and Dest if you stop complaining on the forums and play the game. |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
209
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 14:11:00 -
[342] - Quote
Tippia wrote:GǪand then there's the whole training time vs. speed gain to consider. It's not quite as large an affect as the ISK, but it's one to consider nevertheless.
The difference in skill training between +3 and +5 implants is 767,250 SP, and that training earns you a training speed increase of 180 more SP per hour (assuming you get a set that always cover what you're going to train). That means it takes 4260 hours / 177 days to earn back the time spent on training the Cybernetics skill.
Yes that is true. I deliberately left out the speed gain as I feel the isk factor is much more important for new players unless they are bankrolling themselves with real life cash.
But yes, if you work out the speed gain you are achieving roughly a month of extra SP over the course of one year over having +3s. And then you have to negate the cost of the cybernetics training time also. My maths is a little hazy as I worked it out a long time ago but I think that is roughly correct. |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1425
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 14:21:00 -
[343] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote: But basically - new players should stick with +4s for the first year in my advice unless they can afford to bank roll themselves with real life cash, and even then they could better spend the isk on lots of new ships when their old ones get blown up.
I've been around a lot longer than a year, and I *still* stick with +4s. Because the extra training speed the +5s grant simply isn't as important as what I'm doing day-to-day. I can use the ISK that +5s cost elsewhere to better effect, and I have no pressing need to learn skills faster than I already do.
I'm sure some will think I'm 'doing it wrong' but I really don't see the need. Just like there are a lot of skills that I'll never train to 'V', as well. Cost/benefit just isn't there for me.
Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
Royal Executioner Shazih
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 14:32:00 -
[344] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Thank you for responses. Some of you called me moron/thick-headed/fail-planner etc others gave in-depth explanations which I additionally thank for to voice of reason And both were correct. No problem for the responses it is our pleasure. I won't bother reading the rest of your post and will assume you have realised that you were behaving like a self entitled baby, and you have calmed down now we have pointed out to you that you can still achieve BC and Dest if you stop complaining on the forums and play the game.
Nice trolling try. Try harder next time |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
1644
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 14:40:00 -
[345] - Quote
Tippia wrote:
1. US gets split into UCAS, CAS, NAN and CFS in 2017 after the treaty of Denver.
Yea, but then you gotta decide if your going to be a Mage or a Shaman. Good thing is that Tir Tairngire is a great place to Vacation in the summer.. |
Hemmo Paskiainen
Aliastra Gallente Federation
409
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 14:45:00 -
[346] - Quote
Whine
Whine
Whine
Just make some isk and buy another character.... it is not that hard....most people are just toooo lazy to think & plan ahead to make isk.
Get off your lazy but, go figur out stuff, and use those grey braincells for other stuff than whining to get free stuff
SAD CCP FIX BLACK OPS FFS
[url]http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/9679/whatihavedoneineve.jpg[/url] |
Jonah Gravenstein
Khalkotauroi Defence Labs
8096
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 14:48:00 -
[347] - Quote
Next thing you know the OP will be complaining that old people get a pension paid to them regularly, and that it's hideously unfair that newborns don't. OP can GTFO my lawn. A war hasn't been fought this badly since Olaf the Hairy, High Chief of all the Vikings, accidentally ordered 80,000 battle helmets with the horns on the inside. |
Ra Jackson
CRIMINALS IN ACTION
171
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 15:05:00 -
[348] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote: Let's say we get new skilltree called 'special access'. All current players will be granted all 4 racial trees.
NO! Current players will be granted access to the trees THEY HAVE ALREADY SKILLED. So they already put effort to get there. New players didn't.
Hilarious comparison btw. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
2645
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 15:13:00 -
[349] - Quote
With the game being around for 10 years, it's quite possible that the older players have something in their generation that the younger players do not have in their upbringing.
It known as being told "NO" as a toddler.
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silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1426
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 15:16:00 -
[350] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:With the game being around for 10 years, it's quite possible that the older players have something in their generation that the younger players do not have in their upbringing.
It known as being told "NO" as a toddler.
AKA "Parenting Tool #1."
Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
|
Royal Executioner Shazih
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 15:21:00 -
[351] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:With the game being around for 10 years, it's quite possible that the older players have something in their generation that the younger players do not have in their upbringing.
It known as being told "NO" as a toddler.
But u keep forgetting that u and other so-called 'older' players do not decide anything and will never do. So your "no' is as meaningless as shoting the breeze. But. yes, thinking otherwise makes u more significant in your own eyes. Good job. And comparing me to a toddle only shoes how ill-mannered and rotten u are. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Khalkotauroi Defence Labs
8096
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 15:24:00 -
[352] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote: But u keep forgetting that u and other so-called 'older' players do not decide anything and will never do. So your "no' is as meaningless as shoting the breeze. But. yes, thinking otherwise makes u more significant in your own eyes. Good job. And comparing me to a toddle only shoes how ill-mannered and stupid u are.
Start acting and posting like an adult, then maybe we won't treat you like a impudent child. We're simply calling it as we see it. A war hasn't been fought this badly since Olaf the Hairy, High Chief of all the Vikings, accidentally ordered 80,000 battle helmets with the horns on the inside. |
Virginia Virdana
Envoy Fast Deployment
47
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 15:25:00 -
[353] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:
But u keep forgetting that u and other so-called 'older' players do not decide anything and will never do. So your "no' is as meaningless as shoting the breeze. But. yes, thinking otherwise makes u more significant in your own eyes. Good job. And comparing me to a toddle only shoes how ill-mannered and rotten u are.
Just to be clear, all we are doing here is telling you EXACTLY what any dev would tell you. CCPs policy on skill point reimbursement is very, very clear. It only happens in the event that a skill is completely removed form the game e.g. training skills.
Also: *you *you *shooting *But, yes, *you *toddler *shows *you It's also considered bad form to start a sentence with "and". They say never come to a gunfight armed with a knife.You appear to have come armed with a spoon. |
Caxton Verticorda
Empyrean Warriors Insidious Empire
4
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 15:26:00 -
[354] - Quote
If you start training now there is enough time to get Battlecruisers 5 and Destroyers 5 before the changes hit. (Probably a repost since I cba to read through every other post, but hey.) |
Velicitia
Nex Exercitus
1425
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 15:36:00 -
[355] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Velicitia wrote:A better example (still horribly flawed) is that
1. US changes driving laws in 2014 that you need a "standard transmission" license if you want to drive a car with standard (manual) transmission. 2. anyone with a current licence is granted "std transmission" license, provided that they own/lease a car with a standard transmission. 3. anyone who isn't licensed by 01/01/14 (or doesn't have a std transmission car) defaults to the "automatic transmission only" license, but can test to have the "full" license.
That's all that CCP is changing/adding with the skill change things. Hell, you can even keep the fractured-state scenario: 1. US gets split into UCAS, CAS, NAN and CFS in 2017 after the treaty of Denver. 2. All old US permanent residents are granted quadruple residencies by default, and can thus travel freely just like before. 3. Anyone wanting to become a resident after 2017 has to go the respective embassies to apply for the full set of permanent residencies so they can travel freely too.
... why is it in each of those factions, I'm trying to cram "Caldari" in there somehow? One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia Malcanis for CSM8 |
Jonah Gravenstein
Khalkotauroi Defence Labs
8097
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 15:38:00 -
[356] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:
... why is it in each of those factions, I'm trying to cram "Caldari" in there somehow?
Because the US has "all ze missiles"? A war hasn't been fought this badly since Olaf the Hairy, High Chief of all the Vikings, accidentally ordered 80,000 battle helmets with the horns on the inside. |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1426
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 15:40:00 -
[357] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:With the game being around for 10 years, it's quite possible that the older players have something in their generation that the younger players do not have in their upbringing.
It known as being told "NO" as a toddler.
But u keep forgetting that u and other so-called 'older' players do not decide anything and will never do. So your "no' is as meaningless as shoting the breeze. But. yes, thinking otherwise makes u more significant in your own eyes. Good job. And comparing me to a toddle only shoes how ill-mannered and stupid u are. You're still whining for a CCP 'official' answer? It was already given. Repeatedly. Why do you think your pushy, immature, childish tantrum is going to get you anything else?
My eight-year old could parse this stuff better than you can. Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
Manny Moons
New Order Logistics CODE.
55
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 16:17:00 -
[358] - Quote
Tippia wrote:... 1. US gets split into UCAS, CAS, NAN and CFS in 2017 after the treaty of Denver. 2. All old US permanent residents are granted quadruple residencies by default, and can thus travel freely just like before. 3. Anyone wanting to become a resident after 2017 has to go the respective embassies to apply for the full set of permanent residencies so they can travel freely too.
Man, I gotta get my nose out of EVE and watch the news. I didn't know about any of this.
|
Kalanaja
Dog Nation United ProtoStar Federation
36
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 16:23:00 -
[359] - Quote
The only thing they are doing is making it so people that can already pilot those ships in the lines that are getting changed can continue without having to go back from square one almost. Meaning if they have Destroyers 5 and the other skills required for all the Interdictors, then they'll be able to still pilot them after the change. The same applies with anyone that has BC 5. Yes, technically they get free sp. However, that sp just means a higher clone cost and in the end really doesn't matter that much because whatever particular interdictor or command ship they use now, they'll continue to most likely use afterwards. It really only majorly effects the Interdictor and the Command Ship pilots. If you have the Destroyer skills and the BC skills for the tech1 version for all races and can pilot them now. You'll still be able to pilot them afterwards. It's nothing to cry over. A rookie two or three month character is a bit ways from being effective in an interdictor, and nowhere to really even making a command ship active. If anything the changes actually help a new player some. Especially if the rookie plans on hopping into an Orca. |
Abraham Nalelmir
FATAL Warfare
3
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 16:24:00 -
[360] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Thank you for responses. Some of you called me moron/thick-headed/fail-planner etc others gave in-depth explanations which I additionally thank for. Now let me sort it out.
1. I myself (actually training it) might get it on time (or even if not be short like 4-5 days). I hope it is clear. But people who just started or will start playing a bit later wont.
Well, people who joined now, I'm not sure what is bad for them 2-3 weeks of training they can get racial frigates to 4, racial cruisers to 3, destroyers to 5, and battlecruisers to 4 Then they can fly every battlecruiser for every race, as well as every destroyer
IT IS NOT MANDATORY TO GET EVERYTHING ON 5
People who joined after the patch will be same as the people who heard about the mighty 7 HAM drake then they joined to find it 6 HAM drake few months ago!!
I'm not sure where is the problem here, why you make a problem out of nothing? new people won't have anything bad about that... but on the other hand, WE <- the ones who trained those to 5 will have to PAY MORE ISK on a clone, and if some of us forgot to upgrade his clone before the patch or directly after the patch then get podded then we are pretty much F'ED because we WILL LOSE ALL AND EVERYTHING related to these 2 skills (will be 8 skills by then) so WE NEED TO SPEND FROM 3 TO 4 MONTHS TRAINING THAT AGAIN Newbie?, want to shoot ships? see here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=169575 |
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