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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Royal Executioner Shazih
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 15:28:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi everyone. Probably my post will bring a lot of criticism but I want to make a point. Due to ship skills revamp people who train Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V are going to get around 6mil SP. That is fine. But players who dont do that will get nothing.
I propose that players who decided not to train the mentioned skill get partial recompensation (say 30% of the max possible skills). For example, if someone gets zero additional SP from summer expansion he qualifies for 6x0.3 = 2m free SP to allocate. If the player gets 2m SP from summer expansion he qualifies for (6-2)x0.3 = 1,3m free SP to allocate etc.
Some of u will object because we all knew that in advance and could train Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V. BUT while for older players 20-30 days of training is nothing newer players cant afford to spend so much time on 1-2 skills. It gives unfair advantage to older players and players who already have Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V over newer player.
That's why I propose recompensation. |
De'Veldrin
East India Ore Trade The East India Co.
1292
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 15:30:00 -
[2] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Hi everyone. Probably my post will bring a lot of criticism but I want to make a point. Due to ship skills revamp people who train Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V are going to get around 6mil SP. That is fine. But players who dont do that will get nothing.
I propose that players who decided not to train the mentioned skill get partial recompensation (say 30% of the max possible skills). For example, if someone gets zero additional SP from summer expansion he qualifies for 6x0.3 = 2m free SP to allocate. If the player gets 2m SP from summer expansion he qualifies for (6-2)x0.3 = 1,3m free SP to allocate etc.
Some of u will object because we all knew that in advance and could train Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V. BUT while for older players 20-30 days of training is nothing newer players cant afford to spend so much time on 1-2 skills. It gives unfair advantage to older players and players who already have Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V over newer player.
That's why I propose recompensation.
So let me get this right -
You want a reward for failing to plan ahead for a change that has been announced for at least 6 - 9 months.
How about No? Does No work for you? Malcanis for CSM 8
Eve Online: The full-contact sport for your brain. Twitter --á@DeVeldrin |
Dave Stark
2767
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 15:35:00 -
[3] - Quote
and ******** thread of the day goes to... OP, congratulations! |
Neptune Phantom
Dissent.
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 15:39:00 -
[4] - Quote
Weird, i thought i heard people will be compensated the skillpoints they have trained so far in those catagories.
So if you didnt skill completly up in time for the changes or plan ahead, yes you will get skillpoints. |
Kojee
Hans Landa Foundation
13
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 15:40:00 -
[5] - Quote
Yeah... no. This is pretty much ********.
Also, free SP to allocate > SP in a predefined skill imo. |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
190
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 15:44:00 -
[6] - Quote
Wow... I remember asking about having the Mining Barge skill refunded, and that caused many forum flames. But at least that made sense. Asking for this will cause a forum inferno! |
Royal Executioner Shazih
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 15:45:00 -
[7] - Quote
Kojee wrote:Yeah... no. This is pretty much ********.
Also, free SP to allocate > SP in a predefined skill imo.
U are right, that's why I am talking about partial recompensation |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
190
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 15:47:00 -
[8] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:U are right, that's why I am talking about partial recompensation
Compensation for what exactly?
|
Angelique Duchemin
Serenity Prime Kraken.
494
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 15:47:00 -
[9] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Hi everyone. Probably my post will bring a lot of criticism but I want to make a point. Due to ship skills revamp people who train Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V are going to get around 6mil SP. That is fine. But players who dont do that will get nothing.
I propose that players who decided not to train the mentioned skill get partial recompensation (say 30% of the max possible skills). For example, if someone gets zero additional SP from summer expansion he qualifies for 6x0.3 = 2m free SP to allocate. If the player gets 2m SP from summer expansion he qualifies for (6-2)x0.3 = 1,3m free SP to allocate etc.
Some of u will object because we all knew that in advance and could train Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V. BUT while for older players 20-30 days of training is nothing newer players cant afford to spend so much time on 1-2 skills. It gives unfair advantage to older players and players who already have Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V over newer player.
That's why I propose recompensation.
It's not free SP. They can fly the same ships as they could before except now their clones cost more. We miss you Saede. |
Sedrie
Apple Industries Inc. Surely You're Joking
23
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 15:48:00 -
[10] - Quote
2/10 |
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
2635
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 15:48:00 -
[11] - Quote
I thought I smelled socialism in here.
It all started in the early 20th century when teachers were told to say to kids caught with chewing gum "did you bring enough for everybody?".
I am going to have BC5 trained right before the changes, and then maybe I'll spend some capital gains on beer and steak to celebrate, and I won't be bringing enough for anybody else.
So there. Nyah nyah nyah. |
De'Veldrin
East India Ore Trade The East India Co.
1292
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 15:51:00 -
[12] - Quote
Neptune Phantom wrote:Weird, i thought i heard people will be compensated the skillpoints they have trained so far in those catagories.
So if you didnt skill completly up in time for the changes or plan ahead, yes you will get skillpoints.
No, you won't.
The only way you will get skill points reimbursed is if you have somehow managed to train Destroyers or Battlecruisers by themselves with no training in any racial frigate or racial cruiser respectively. Malcanis for CSM 8
Eve Online: The full-contact sport for your brain. Twitter --á@DeVeldrin |
Royal Executioner Shazih
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 15:51:00 -
[13] - Quote
Angelique Duchemin wrote:Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Hi everyone. Probably my post will bring a lot of criticism but I want to make a point. Due to ship skills revamp people who train Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V are going to get around 6mil SP. That is fine. But players who dont do that will get nothing.
I propose that players who decided not to train the mentioned skill get partial recompensation (say 30% of the max possible skills). For example, if someone gets zero additional SP from summer expansion he qualifies for 6x0.3 = 2m free SP to allocate. If the player gets 2m SP from summer expansion he qualifies for (6-2)x0.3 = 1,3m free SP to allocate etc.
Some of u will object because we all knew that in advance and could train Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V. BUT while for older players 20-30 days of training is nothing newer players cant afford to spend so much time on 1-2 skills. It gives unfair advantage to older players and players who already have Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V over newer player.
That's why I propose recompensation. It's not free SP. They can fly the same ships as they could before except now their clones cost more.
But y I am punished for that? Y I have to spend 4x times more than they? Because I am younger? Newer players already heavily disadvantaged |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
190
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 15:52:00 -
[14] - Quote
Even better. I trained BC to level V on an alt even though I am never going to use BC with that character. I have no cruiser skills and am Per and Will remapped so will get lots of lovely free unallocated SP in June on that character. :) |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
190
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 15:53:00 -
[15] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:But y I am punished for that? Y I have to spend 4x times more than they? Because I am younger? Newer players already heavily disadvantaged
How did you work out you are being punished? And again, what exactly is it that you want compensation for? |
Virginia Virdana
Envoy Fast Deployment
35
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 15:53:00 -
[16] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:I propose that players who decided not to train...
No.
They decided not to train, so they don't get any SP. I decided not to train a whole raft of skills so that I coulld get BC and Destroyers to V. Should I get compensation? No. They say never come to a gunfight armed with a knife.You appear to have come armed with a spoon. |
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
578
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 15:55:00 -
[17] - Quote
So if I create a character 1 day before the expansion I get 2 mil free sp but if I create it 2 days later I get nothing? Seems pretty unfair that vets would get a free pass to fill up their accounts with trained cyno alts and PI industrialists. "I do want to point out one "abuse" thing I did see however. *snipped* Please do not post details of possible exploits on the forums. - CCP Eterne" ... Because of Falcon. |
Royal Executioner Shazih
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 15:55:00 -
[18] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:But y I am punished for that? Y I have to spend 4x times more than they? Because I am younger? Newer players already heavily disadvantaged How did you work out you are being punished? And again, what exactly is it that you want compensation for?
to get all racial BC T2 hulls |
admiral root
Red Galaxy SpaceMonkey's Alliance
503
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 15:55:00 -
[19] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:Wow... I remember asking about having the Mining Barge skill refunded, and that caused many forum flames. But at least that made sense.
It made exactly no sense, as mining barges are still in the game and the skill still affects them. This thread makes just as little sense as we knew about the destroyer / battlecruiser changes last summer and had plenty of time to take appropriate action. No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff |
Dave Stark
2770
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 15:56:00 -
[20] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Rebecha Pucontis wrote:Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:But y I am punished for that? Y I have to spend 4x times more than they? Because I am younger? Newer players already heavily disadvantaged How did you work out you are being punished? And again, what exactly is it that you want compensation for? to get all racial BC T2 hulls
if you didn't post a terrible op, followed by answers that make no sense, people might take you more seriously. |
|
De'Veldrin
East India Ore Trade The East India Co.
1293
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 15:57:00 -
[21] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:Even better. I trained BC to level V on an alt even though I am never going to use BC with that character. I have no cruiser skills and am Per and Will remapped so will get lots of lovely free unallocated SP in June on that character. :)
I thought about this, but in what way does this benefit you over just training skills you would have used in the first place, unless it's just to save a remap. You'll only get back the number of skill points you could have trained in that amount of time anyway. Malcanis for CSM 8
Eve Online: The full-contact sport for your brain. Twitter --á@DeVeldrin |
Virginia Virdana
Envoy Fast Deployment
36
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 15:57:00 -
[22] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote: But y I am punished for that? Y I have to spend 4x times more than they? Because I am younger? Newer players already heavily disadvantaged
The only thing you are being "punished" for is your lack of forward planning They say never come to a gunfight armed with a knife.You appear to have come armed with a spoon. |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
190
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 15:57:00 -
[23] - Quote
admiral root wrote:Rebecha Pucontis wrote:Wow... I remember asking about having the Mining Barge skill refunded, and that caused many forum flames. But at least that made sense. It made exactly no sense, as mining barges are still in the game and the skill still affects them. This thread makes just as little sense as we knew about the destroyer / battlecruiser changes last summer and had plenty of time to take appropriate action.
And the mining barge skills are universally accepted as the most useful skill in the game too right?... Don't be a muppet. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4048
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 15:58:00 -
[24] - Quote
Look on the bright side, as a newer player you have been taught how valuable it is to pay attention and plan ahead.
These lessons will serve you far better than some extra skill points. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Dave Stark
2770
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 15:59:00 -
[25] - Quote
Virginia Virdana wrote:Royal Executioner Shazih wrote: But y I am punished for that? Y I have to spend 4x times more than they? Because I am younger? Newer players already heavily disadvantaged The only thing you are being "punished" for is your lack of forward planning
actions having consequences. who'd have thought! |
Virginia Virdana
Envoy Fast Deployment
36
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 15:59:00 -
[26] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:admiral root wrote:Rebecha Pucontis wrote:Wow... I remember asking about having the Mining Barge skill refunded, and that caused many forum flames. But at least that made sense. It made exactly no sense, as mining barges are still in the game and the skill still affects them. This thread makes just as little sense as we knew about the destroyer / battlecruiser changes last summer and had plenty of time to take appropriate action. And the mining barge skills are universally accepted as the most useful skill in the game too right?... Don't be a muppet.
Honestly - this has been done to death. Lets focus on the new semi-irrational skill point debate at hand... They say never come to a gunfight armed with a knife.You appear to have come armed with a spoon. |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
190
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 15:59:00 -
[27] - Quote
De'Veldrin wrote:Rebecha Pucontis wrote:Even better. I trained BC to level V on an alt even though I am never going to use BC with that character. I have no cruiser skills and am Per and Will remapped so will get lots of lovely free unallocated SP in June on that character. :) I thought about this, but in what way does this benefit you over just training skills you would have used in the first place, unless it's just to save a remap. You'll only get back the number of skill points you could have trained in that amount of time anyway.
It is useful as certain skill I wanted to train have pre reqs which are not using the same attributes as the primary skill. So yes basically it saves a remap or two and basically and makes it much easier to plan on evemon. For a relatively new alt it is really nice to have almost 2 mil unallocated points along with the 3 remaps, and I was already remapped to Per and Will so thought I would make the most of it. |
Royal Executioner Shazih
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 16:00:00 -
[28] - Quote
Virginia Virdana wrote:Royal Executioner Shazih wrote: But y I am punished for that? Y I have to spend 4x times more than they? Because I am younger? Newer players already heavily disadvantaged The only thing you are being "punished" for is your lack of forward planning
Im two months old. How was I supposed to plan it on time? |
De'Veldrin
East India Ore Trade The East India Co.
1293
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 16:01:00 -
[29] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:De'Veldrin wrote:Rebecha Pucontis wrote:Even better. I trained BC to level V on an alt even though I am never going to use BC with that character. I have no cruiser skills and am Per and Will remapped so will get lots of lovely free unallocated SP in June on that character. :) I thought about this, but in what way does this benefit you over just training skills you would have used in the first place, unless it's just to save a remap. You'll only get back the number of skill points you could have trained in that amount of time anyway. It is useful as certain skill I wanted to train have pre reqs which are not using the same attributes as the pre req skills. So yes basically it saves a remap or two and basically and makes it much easier to plan on evemon. For a relatively new alt it is really nice to have almost 2 mil unallocated points along with the 3 remaps, and I was already remapped to Per and Will so thought I would make the most of it.
Makes sense. Good on you for being emergent. LOL. Malcanis for CSM 8
Eve Online: The full-contact sport for your brain. Twitter --á@DeVeldrin |
admiral root
Red Galaxy SpaceMonkey's Alliance
503
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 16:02:00 -
[30] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:And the mining barge skills are universally accepted as the most useful skill in the game too right?...
What does that matter? They still do what they were intended to do so reimbursement of the skill points makes no sense at all. Furthermore, if you're one of the people who are mad over the orca changes, you still get value from the barge skill up until the expansion.
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:Don't be a muppet.
Both Kermit and Yoda would grasp the silliness of your desire to have mining barge skill points reimbursed. I'm fine being grouped with such intelligent company. Wakka wakka. No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff |
|
Pragadas
Fate's Defiance Legions of Ash
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 16:04:00 -
[31] - Quote
De'Veldrin wrote:
So let me get this right -
You want a reward for failing to plan ahead for a change that has been announced for at least 6 - 9 months.
How about No? Does No work for you?
I agree with you that I could have planned ahead and trained these but as a new player, training all the races destroyers and BCs up is quite an investment that takes me quite far from stuff I'll actually use in the near future.
That said, I'm not self entitled enough to think I should get a load of free SP for no reason although it does suck than when cross training is the right thing to do it's going to be that little bit harder.
Gonna try and get caldari in before the change though, I hear the Naga is good even if I won't be able to use the hybrids for a while. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13733
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 16:06:00 -
[32] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:That's why I propose recompensation. GÇ£RecompensationGÇ¥ suggest that something was lost. So the question is: for what? What have you lost?
No, having to train skills under new skill tree is not a loss GÇö it's just the game. In fact, under this new tree, you'll have a far easier time training for things than the older characters had. That is your compensation right there: your cross-training becomes a little more time-consuming; specialisation becomes immensely faster.
At best, the older characters should be compensated for having their clones become more expensive without actually gaining anything for itGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
191
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 16:06:00 -
[33] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Virginia Virdana wrote:Royal Executioner Shazih wrote: But y I am punished for that? Y I have to spend 4x times more than they? Because I am younger? Newer players already heavily disadvantaged The only thing you are being "punished" for is your lack of forward planning Im two months old. How was I supposed to plan it on time?
CCP are increasing the skill point requirements to fly all pirate faction ship. If every new player were given free SP to compensate them which they could easily spend on skilling up all the pirate faction ships, then what would be the point of CCP implementing the change in the first place. Your logic is pretty bad.
Also look on the bright side, you can fly the orca in 14 days now, where as older players had to spend months training up crappy mining barge skills. |
Dave Stark
2771
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 16:06:00 -
[34] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Virginia Virdana wrote:Royal Executioner Shazih wrote: But y I am punished for that? Y I have to spend 4x times more than they? Because I am younger? Newer players already heavily disadvantaged The only thing you are being "punished" for is your lack of forward planning Im two months old. How was I supposed to plan it on time?
two months old, over a month until the changes. more than enough time to train those skills. |
Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami Moon Warriors
316
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 16:08:00 -
[35] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Virginia Virdana wrote:Royal Executioner Shazih wrote: But y I am punished for that? Y I have to spend 4x times more than they? Because I am younger? Newer players already heavily disadvantaged The only thing you are being "punished" for is your lack of forward planning Im two months old. How was I supposed to plan it on time?
Plan what on time? If you don't train it and haven't been using it, it doesn't apply to you. It's not "free" sp, it's "reimbursement". "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url]-á for details. |
Royal Executioner Shazih
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 16:08:00 -
[36] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:That's why I propose recompensation. GÇ£ RecompensationGÇ¥ suggest that something was lost. So the question is: for what? What have you lost? No, having to train skills under new skill tree is not a loss GÇö it's just the game. In fact, under this new tree, you'll have a far easier time training for things than the older characters had. At best, the older characters should be compensated for having their clones become more expensive without actually gaining anything for itGǪ
Exactly. That's what I'm pointing at. This change itself hits those who have Dessy V and BC V quite a bit but even harder those who don't. |
Jame Jarl Retief
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
1073
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 16:08:00 -
[37] - Quote
De'Veldrin wrote:
So let me get this right -
You want a reward for failing to plan ahead for a change that has been announced for at least 6 - 9 months.
How about No? Does No work for you?
I am a firm believer that current skill system in EVE is the second-largest singular detrimental factor to the game's player base growth. Largest factor being the current player base. But the OP brings up an interesting point.
OK, those of us who are playing now, and have been for a while, all planned ahead and trained Destroyers and BCs to V. I know I did. But what about new players? You know, those "the few, the proud, the nooby"? What about them? Imagine one of those guys joining the game and finding out that within weeks (meaning there's no way in holy hell he can do it fast enough) he will miss out on additional 6 million SP worth of training time, which translates into what, 3.7 months worth of training at 2200 SP/hr? How do you think this will make the new player feel? Smart move?
Personally I'd rather see the whole SP and training system scrubbed or at least totally overhauled. Then again, I'm a realist, and I know it will never happen as it is pretty much the only thing still holding this game together. Well, that and bird droppings. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4048
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 16:09:00 -
[38] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Virginia Virdana wrote:Royal Executioner Shazih wrote: But y I am punished for that? Y I have to spend 4x times more than they? Because I am younger? Newer players already heavily disadvantaged The only thing you are being "punished" for is your lack of forward planning Im two months old. How was I supposed to plan it on time? If you are only two months old you are better off concentrating on specializing at this point anyway. Worry about broadening your options later when you have the core skills to back it up and the skill with your chosen line/ships to be highly effective when needed. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Dave Stark
2771
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 16:10:00 -
[39] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Tippia wrote:Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:That's why I propose recompensation. GÇ£ RecompensationGÇ¥ suggest that something was lost. So the question is: for what? What have you lost? No, having to train skills under new skill tree is not a loss GÇö it's just the game. In fact, under this new tree, you'll have a far easier time training for things than the older characters had. At best, the older characters should be compensated for having their clones become more expensive without actually gaining anything for itGǪ Exactly. That's what I'm pointing at. This change itself hits those who have Dessy V and BC V quite a bit but even harder those who don't.
so not having a more expensive clone is now harder than having an expensive one?
rvb, now pvping in high sec to be found under the bridge frequented by goats. |
Meytal
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
180
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 16:11:00 -
[40] - Quote
Pragadas wrote:I agree with you that I could have planned ahead and trained these but as a new player, training all the races destroyers and BCs up is quite an investment that takes me quite far from stuff I'll actually use in the near future.
That said, I'm not self entitled enough to think I should get a load of free SP for no reason although it does suck than when cross training is the right thing to do it's going to be that little bit harder.
Gonna try and get caldari in before the change though, I hear the Naga is good even if I won't be able to use the hybrids for a while. The only difficult train that you might not complete if you start right now is Battlecruisers 5. The Frigate skills need to go to 4, so that meets the level 3 requirement for Destroyers. The cruiser skills to 3 takes less than a day each. Battlecruisers 4 only takes a few days. Destroyers 5 takes maybe a week or so, depending on your current mapping.
You can easily get in a LOT of training right now. Maybe you won't get Battlecruisers to 5, or maybe you will. If you do nothing, you can be assured that you will get exactly nothing.
|
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Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
191
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 16:12:00 -
[41] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Personally I'd rather see the whole SP and training system scrubbed or at least totally overhauled.
So basically you want to scrap one of the most unique aspect and biggest draw of the game, and turn the skill system into a Wow clone? |
Virginia Virdana
Envoy Fast Deployment
36
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 16:12:00 -
[42] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Virginia Virdana wrote:Royal Executioner Shazih wrote: But y I am punished for that? Y I have to spend 4x times more than they? Because I am younger? Newer players already heavily disadvantaged The only thing you are being "punished" for is your lack of forward planning Im two months old. How was I supposed to plan it on time?
You basically want the free skill points to allocate on your char, because other players are being given the supporting skills that enable them to fly what they can already fly.
I can't see how you thought that might happen. They say never come to a gunfight armed with a knife.You appear to have come armed with a spoon. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13733
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 16:14:00 -
[43] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Exactly. That's what I'm pointing at. This change itself hits those who have Dessy V and BC V quite a bit but even harder those who don't. No, it's pretty much the exact opposite of what you're pointing at.
This change hits those who have Destroyer and BC V very hard GÇö it doesn't hit anyone else at all. The difference before and after the patch is that everyone will be able to do exactly the same things they could the day before, except that those who suddenly get burdened with 5M SP more and risk running up higher clone costs aren't getting anything for it. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Dave Stark
2771
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 16:14:00 -
[44] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Personally I'd rather see the whole SP and training system scrubbed or at least totally overhauled. So basically you want to scrap one of the most unique aspect and biggest draw of the game, and turn the skill system into a Wow clone?
this. i like the sense of progression without mindless grind. |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
191
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 16:15:00 -
[45] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Exactly. That's what I'm pointing at. This change itself hits those who have Dessy V and BC V quite a bit but even harder those who don't.
I think most people would agree that making cross training more difficult is a good change. And the previous system wasn't very logical which is why CCP is trying to streamline it. What your basically asking for is for CCP to scrap the proposal so snowflakes like yourself don't get hurt.
If they give everyone free SP then like I said before, there is not point in them making the change in the first place as pirate faction frigs will be just as easy to get into as everyone will have free SP. |
Braxus Deninard
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
101
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 16:16:00 -
[46] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Exactly. That's what I'm pointing at. This change itself hits those who have Dessy V and BC V quite a bit but even harder those who don't. No, it's pretty much the exact opposite of what you're pointing at. This change hits those who have Destroyer and BC V very hard GÇö it doesn't hit anyone else at all. The difference before and after the patch is that everyone will be able to do exactly the same things they could the day before, except that those who suddenly get burdened with 5M SP more and risk running up higher clone costs aren't getting anything for it.
This, I don't think OP even understands the skill changes at all. |
Felicity Love
STARKRAFT Joint Venture Conglomerate
496
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 16:18:00 -
[47] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Personally I'd rather see the whole SP and training system scrubbed or at least totally overhauled. Then again, I'm a realist, and I know it will never happen as it is pretty much the only thing still holding this game together. Well, that and bird droppings.
Given how many times both character generation and skillpoint training have been changed over the years, I would not get any hopes up.
And the game should not have to constantly bend over backwards to make "catching up" (for any reason) easy for new players. If new players have been off playing other games for years, or have been stuck on console gaming since their mom decided an XBOX was cheaper than a babysitter, then they should just HTFU and earn their place in EVE.
Onoes... actually having to make an effort.
Proud Beta Tester for "Bumping Uglies for Dummies" |
Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami Moon Warriors
316
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 16:20:00 -
[48] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Exactly. That's what I'm pointing at. This change itself hits those who have Dessy V and BC V quite a bit but even harder those who don't. I think most people would agree that making cross training more difficult is a good change. And the previous system wasn't very logical which is why CCP is trying to streamline it. What your basically asking for is for CCP to scrap the proposal so snowflakes like yourself don't get hurt. If they give everyone free SP then like I said before, there is not point in them making the change in the first place as pirate faction frigs will be just as easy to get into as everyone will have free SP.
It's not free SP. The time was already spent on training it. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url]-á for details. |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
191
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 16:21:00 -
[49] - Quote
Braxus Deninard wrote:This, I don't think OP even understands the skill changes at all.
The OP doesn't understand much at all. They don't realise how easy they have it compared to older players these days. A lot of skills which older players spent months training for became irrelevant in previous iterations
I remember training all the learning skills to level V back in the day. Now you don't have to do that. I trained the social connections skills to level V which were then removed, and now you don't have to do that. I spent months training Mining Barge to level V to fly and Orca. And now you can have it in 14 days.
|
Royal Executioner Shazih
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 16:22:00 -
[50] - Quote
Felicity Love wrote:Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Personally I'd rather see the whole SP and training system scrubbed or at least totally overhauled. Then again, I'm a realist, and I know it will never happen as it is pretty much the only thing still holding this game together. Well, that and bird droppings.
Given how many times both character generation and skillpoint training have been changed over the years, I would not get any hopes up. And the game should not have to constantly bend over backwards to make "catching up" (for any reason) easy for new players. If new players have been off playing other games for years, or have been stuck on console gaming since their mom decided an XBOX was cheaper than a babysitter, then they should just HTFU and earn their place in EVE. Onoes... actually having to make an effort.
Off topic but still. Do u understand that if we (noobs) leave this game there will be noone to sell your crap to and noone shoot in low sec at?
Noobs/newer players deserve some love too. |
|
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
191
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 16:22:00 -
[51] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:It's not free SP. The time was already spent on training it.
The OP was suggesting that CCP gives him free SP though. |
Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami Moon Warriors
316
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 16:24:00 -
[52] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:It's not free SP. The time was already spent on training it. The OP was suggesting that CCP gives him free SP though.
Yea that's what I'm trying to correct. It's not free when pilots already spent the time on them. Silly bad posting on the OP part. To think it should be just a blanket "everyone gets millions of sp" is.. well... not needed here =). "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url]-á for details. |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
191
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 16:25:00 -
[53] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Noobs/newer players deserve some love too.
Read my post above. New players are getting plenty of love. CCP are constantly producing lots of nice new shiny things for new players to play with. Hell, the main purpose of tiericide was to buff up the lower T1 ships so that new players could better compete with the advanced ships which older players spent months or years training for. |
Mrs Troutslayer
Internet Spaceship Gamers Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll
2
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 16:25:00 -
[54] - Quote
OP, the way this is being implemented "If you can fly it now, you can fly t after the change" no better no worse I might add.
Under your proposed change players who planned ahead get nothing more than an inflated skillpoint number (and more expensive clones to replace). You would get to fly new stuff or your current stuff better with your new fee skill points.
|
De'Veldrin
East India Ore Trade The East India Co.
1298
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 16:26:00 -
[55] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:
Off topic but still. Do u understand that if we (noobs) leave this game there will be noone to sell your crap to and noone shoot in low sec at?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. ahem...
Oh. Oh you were serious....
Malcanis for CSM 8
Eve Online: The full-contact sport for your brain. Twitter --á@DeVeldrin |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13738
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 16:30:00 -
[56] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Do u understand that if we (noobs) leave this game there will be noone to sell your crap to and noone shoot in low sec at? Of course there will GÇö namely everyone else.
Now, you do understand that GÇ£catching upGÇ¥ is not an applicable concept in EVE, right? That the only thing that new players can't GÇ£catch upGÇ¥ with is total SP? That total SP is a meaningless stat that only serves one purpose: making your clone more expensive? That beyond total SP, GÇ£catching upGÇ¥ is not only very possible, but actually inevitable, and also a hugely inefficient way of spending your time? That the design of marginal improvement for exponential increases in cost, and of diminishing returns means that 1 SP Gëá 1 SP?
You're asking to be compensated for the non-loss of not being subject to an actual compensation (one that only results in them being exactly where they were before). You are getting the exact same deal.
Quote:Noobs/newer players deserve some love too. They're getting a lot of it: they get a much improved ship progression tree, where almost everything is much easier and quicker to train for. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Royal Executioner Shazih
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 16:35:00 -
[57] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Do u understand that if we (noobs) leave this game there will be noone to sell your crap to and noone shoot in low sec at? Of course there will GÇö namely everyone else. Now, you do understand that GÇ£catching upGÇ¥ is not an applicable concept in EVE, right? That the only thing that new players can't GÇ£catch upGÇ¥ with is total SP? That total SP is a meaningless stat that only serves one purpose: making your clone more expensive? That beyond total SP, GÇ£catching upGÇ¥ is not only very possible, but actually inevitable, and also a hugely inefficient way of spending your time? That the design of marginal improvement for exponential increases in cost, and of diminishing returns means that 1 SP Gëá 1 SP? You're asking to be compensated for the non-loss of not being subject to an actual compensation (one that only results in them being exactly where they were before). You are getting the exact same deal. Quote:Noobs/newer players deserve some love too. They're getting a lot of it: they get a much improved ship progression tree, where almost everything is much easier and quicker to train for.
You are right. But I'm punished in that way:
Let's see you have all cruisers at III and BC IV. Nothing changes for u. But I have 1 racial cruiser III and BC IV. So basically my BC 1 SP is gonna lose 75% of its weight. Is it fair? |
Dave Stark
2775
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 16:36:00 -
[58] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Tippia wrote:Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Do u understand that if we (noobs) leave this game there will be noone to sell your crap to and noone shoot in low sec at? Of course there will GÇö namely everyone else. Now, you do understand that GÇ£catching upGÇ¥ is not an applicable concept in EVE, right? That the only thing that new players can't GÇ£catch upGÇ¥ with is total SP? That total SP is a meaningless stat that only serves one purpose: making your clone more expensive? That beyond total SP, GÇ£catching upGÇ¥ is not only very possible, but actually inevitable, and also a hugely inefficient way of spending your time? That the design of marginal improvement for exponential increases in cost, and of diminishing returns means that 1 SP Gëá 1 SP? You're asking to be compensated for the non-loss of not being subject to an actual compensation (one that only results in them being exactly where they were before). You are getting the exact same deal. Quote:Noobs/newer players deserve some love too. They're getting a lot of it: they get a much improved ship progression tree, where almost everything is much easier and quicker to train for. You are right. But I'm punished in that way: Let's see you have all cruisers at III and BC IV. Nothing changes for u. But I have 1 racial cruiser III and BC IV. So basically my BC 1 SP is gonna lose 75% of its weight. Is it fair?
remind me again what ships you're going to be unable to fly after the change?
i thought so. |
De'Veldrin
East India Ore Trade The East India Co.
1302
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 16:36:00 -
[59] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:
You are right. But I'm punished in that way:
Let's see you have all cruisers at III and BC IV. Nothing changes for u. But I have 1 racial cruiser III and BC IV. So basically my BC 1 SP is gonna lose 75% of its weight. Is it fair?
No, it's not. You will be able to fly exactly the same battlecruisers with exactly the same effect you can fly right now. How are you being punished by that logic? Malcanis for CSM 8
Eve Online: The full-contact sport for your brain. Twitter --á@DeVeldrin |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
3252
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 16:37:00 -
[60] - Quote
Has NO already been said?
If it hasnt, NO. If it has, then +1 NO. Also **** NO.
On second thought, NO.
Failure to listen for the past year and wanting benefit for being lazy should result in 6mil SP being docked from your existing skills... and being docked a remap...because we all know thatll be the next thing theyll all want. Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13740
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 16:40:00 -
[61] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:You are right. But I'm punished in that way:
Let's see you have all cruisers at III and BC IV. Nothing changes for u. GǪother than getting more total SP, which makes the clone more expensive.
Quote:But I have 1 racial cruiser III and BC IV. GǪso nothing changes for you either.
Quote:So basically my BC 1 SP is gonna lose 75% of its weight. Is it fair? GǪexcept that you're not losing anything.
So yes, it's very fair: you can fly exactly the same stuff you could before; the other guy could fly exactly the same stuff he could beforeGǪ except he has to pay more for it.
You're not being punished in any sense of the word. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
3263
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 16:40:00 -
[62] - Quote
Reimbursements are for people who lose things. Did they lose anything ?
No.
(damn, i've implemented Tippia-logic, but Tippia beat me to it. -.-) |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4049
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 16:43:00 -
[63] - Quote
Having more skill points in total is not necessarily a good thing.
Being able to spend your skill points much more efficiently from this point on is always a good thing. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Gnoshia
State War Academy Caldari State
22
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 16:46:00 -
[64] - Quote
Ya good idea OP. I like free stuff that y I voted 4 Obama. ty |
De'Veldrin
East India Ore Trade The East India Co.
1303
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 16:49:00 -
[65] - Quote
Gnoshia wrote:Ya good idea OP. I like free stuff that y I voted 4 Obama. ty
And we have somehow managed to make this thread even more ridiculous than it already was. Malcanis for CSM 8
Eve Online: The full-contact sport for your brain. Twitter --á@DeVeldrin |
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
66
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 16:51:00 -
[66] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote: OK, those of us who are playing now, and have been for a while, all planned ahead and trained Destroyers and BCs to V. I know I did. But what about new players? You know, those "the few, the proud, the nooby"? What about them?
They are supposed to specialize. You know, pick one tank, one weapon system, one or two hull sizes and get the skill points and player experience to fly it well. Then they can start diverging into more hulls of the same race, or cross training to other weapons and races.
Not expect to fly Command Ships with all skills to 5. While training shields and armor, Missiles, Hybrids, Lasers, Projectiles, Drones up to and including Heavies/Sentries. That's a couple of years down the line.
Just like when you start playing WoW, you can't possibly expect to be on a top tier arena team with the best PvP gear, while also main tanking the final boss of the newest raid on hard mode a couple of months after signing up.
|
Royal Executioner Shazih
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 16:54:00 -
[67] - Quote
Just as I expected I don't get any support. Mostly fail posts from fail veterans who is trying to celebrate their victory over one person. Why? Because there almost no new players in this game. |
Dave Stark
2775
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 16:56:00 -
[68] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Just as I expected I don't get any support. Mostly fail posts from fail veterans who is trying to celebrate their victory over one person. Why? Because there almost no new players in this game.
actually it's sensible people telling you, quite rightly, that this thread is bad.
why? because as much as GD is full of bad posts, we don't really need more. |
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
66
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 16:56:00 -
[69] - Quote
Meytal wrote: You can easily get in a LOT of training right now. Maybe you won't get Battlecruisers to 5, or maybe you will. If you do nothing, you can be assured that you will get exactly nothing.
You don't NEED to complete BC5, unless you are after getting Command Ships injected before the change. If you end up three days short of finishing BC5, after the patch you will be three days short of having each racial BC skill to 5. (as long as you have the relevant cruiser skills)
|
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
66
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 17:08:00 -
[70] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Just as I expected I don't get any support. Mostly fail posts from fail veterans who is trying to celebrate their victory over one person. Why? Because there almost no new players in this game. Actually, it's a lot of good posts from veterans telling you why you're wrong. And that if you're two months old and want all 4 Battlecruiser skills to 5, you're doing it wrong.
Lets say you started out Caldari. You are training for a Drake. That means shields and heavy missiles, very minimal drone skills. Please tell me why in the world would you care about Gallente Battlecruisers? Or Amarr Battlecruisers? You maybe care about the Cyclone. So you can take Min cruiser to 3 before the changes and you will get Cal and Min BC 4 after if you have BC4. That's in the magnitude of days. You also won't pay millions more for your clone every time you get poded. If you have spare time to start training to 5, you have the option to and all that SP will be allocated to both Min and Cal Battlecruiser skill. But you probably have other skills more important to your enjoyment of the game that take precedence in the first year of game play.
Hell, as a two month old you're probably not even decided yet if you will stick with the game. Why are you torturing yourself right now, while trying to make your character slightly more optimal three years down the road? |
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13743
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 17:11:00 -
[71] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Just as I expected I don't get any support. Can you identify the reason why?
Quote:Mostly fail posts from fail veterans who is trying to celebrate their victory over one person. No, not a single one, actually. Care to try again?
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Royal Executioner Shazih
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 17:28:00 -
[72] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Just as I expected I don't get any support. Can you identify the reason why? Quote:Mostly fail posts from fail veterans who is trying to celebrate their victory over one person. No, not a single one, actually. Care to try again?
Can only feel sorry for u |
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2428
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 17:30:00 -
[73] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Just as I expected I don't get any support. Mostly fail posts from fail veterans who is trying to celebrate their victory over one person. Why? Because there almost no new players in this game. I know right? New players now should get everything done for them. Because when we were new to this game, we had so many freebies. |
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
139
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 17:34:00 -
[74] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:U are right, that's why I am talking about partial recompensation Compensation for what? If you're not losing anything then there's no need for compensation is there?
To clarify; the 6 million SP you're talking about is the value of skills required to fly existing ships after the change from generic to racial skills minus the value of their current skills. If you are a Myrmidon pilot (and only a Myrmidon pilot) then you lose nothing by having the skill switch from generic to Gallente - if, on the other hand, you fly both the Ferox and the Myrm it doesn't make sense that you should suddenly be unable to do so after the patch. Morover it makes even less sense for someone who flew the Myrm when they were starting out and hasn't touched it since they discovered PvP in a Hurricane to lose the ability to fly their most frequently flown ship.
Therefore, to counter this loss, the current plan has been conceived.
If you don't fly destroyers or battlecruisers then you're losing nothing and therefore there is no need to concern yourself with the change. You aren't losing anything. You may suggest that you're missing out on free SP - but the SP in question has been significantly degraded (it's worth less than 25% of its previous value) and it does not add anything to a character. You may suggest that, as it was your intention to train all of the racial skills to [5] anyway, you're losing time and that's a slightly more viable arguement - although if you have such ambitions and haven't had time to make adjustments then you're probably looking far too far ahead... EVE changes and changes regularly. |
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
3263
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 17:39:00 -
[75] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Just as I expected I don't get any support. Mostly fail posts from fail veterans who is trying to celebrate their victory over one person. Why? Because there almost no new players in this game. You're not being reasonable.
People don't support your claim, because you have no claim. Just because you can't accept that, doesn't mean they're wrong. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4667
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 17:39:00 -
[76] - Quote
You know what I would like? I'd like clone costs to be addressed like they SAID THEY WERE GOING TO DO.
Module activation timers are buggy. CCP please fix. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13745
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 17:41:00 -
[77] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Can only feel sorry for u Thank you. This change totally busts my plan to stay within the 120M SP clone. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
SpoonRECKLESS
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
9
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 17:43:00 -
[78] - Quote
No bad bad NOOBIE!! |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
193
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 17:48:00 -
[79] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Having more skill points in total is not necessarily a good thing.
Being able to spend your skill points much more efficiently from this point on is always a good thing.
Exactly this ^ I already had my BC to level V on one of my characters with two of the racial cruiser skills above 3 already. Now, if the aim of the game was simply to maximise SP gain then I could spend a couple of hours getting the other two racial skills to level 3 for a massive gain in SP.
But guess what, that doesn't matter at all. So I kept the two racial cruiser skills I already have as I never intend on using the other two races ship with that character. Total SP is actually a negative point and keeping total SP as low as possible by not training useless skills is actually much better. |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
193
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 17:49:00 -
[80] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Just as I expected I don't get any support. Mostly fail posts from fail veterans who is trying to celebrate their victory over one person. Why? Because there almost no new players in this game.
You really haven't learnt anything from what people are trying to tell you in this thread have you. |
|
Royal Executioner Shazih
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 17:53:00 -
[81] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Having more skill points in total is not necessarily a good thing.
Being able to spend your skill points much more efficiently from this point on is always a good thing. Exactly this ^ I already had my BC to level V on one of my characters with two of the racial cruiser skills above 3 already. Now, if the aim of the game was simply to maximise SP gain then I could spend a couple of hours getting the other two racial skills to level 3 for a massive gain in SP. But guess what, that doesn't matter at all. So I kept the two racial cruiser skills I already have as I never intend on using the other two races ship with that character. Total SP is actually a negative point and keeping total SP as low as possible by not training useless skills is actually much better.
Ship skills are far from useless. Being able to fly all races makes u flexible and able to join different corporations with different doctrines. |
Royal Executioner Shazih
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 17:56:00 -
[82] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Just as I expected I don't get any support. Mostly fail posts from fail veterans who is trying to celebrate their victory over one person. Why? Because there almost no new players in this game. You really haven't learnt anything from what people are trying to tell you in this thread have you.
I exactly got what they are to tell me:" Omg. **** u didn't train all skills on time? Haha fail! We planned all ahead and u didn't. NOOB!"
That's what most posts address. |
Rhivre
TarNec
52
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 17:57:00 -
[83] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:
You really haven't learnt anything from what people are trying to tell you in this thread have you.
I exactly got what they are to tell me:" Omg. **** u didn't train all skills on time? Haha fail! We planned all ahead and u didn't. NOOB!"
That's what most posts address.[/quote]
You saw what you wanted to read.
You ignored the posts with salient responses and instead focused on answers you thought of as trolls *shrugs* |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
193
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 17:57:00 -
[84] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Rebecha Pucontis wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Having more skill points in total is not necessarily a good thing.
Being able to spend your skill points much more efficiently from this point on is always a good thing. Exactly this ^ I already had my BC to level V on one of my characters with two of the racial cruiser skills above 3 already. Now, if the aim of the game was simply to maximise SP gain then I could spend a couple of hours getting the other two racial skills to level 3 for a massive gain in SP. But guess what, that doesn't matter at all. So I kept the two racial cruiser skills I already have as I never intend on using the other two races ship with that character. Total SP is actually a negative point and keeping total SP as low as possible by not training useless skills is actually much better. Ship skills are far from useless. Being able to fly all races makes u flexible and able to join different corporations with different doctrines.
Why would they want a newb in a caldari cruiser with no missile skills joining their fleets. Or a minmatar pilot with only skills in lasers. Your still not getting the point here. You really have no reason to need all 4 racial battlecruiser to level V, and by the time you do ever need them your character will have so many SP you won't blink an eye lid at training the additional BC skills.
Like I said, if I was following your logic I would train all my cruiser skills to level III as that would only take a couple of hours. But I never intend on training up all the other relevant skills on that character so it would actually be detrimental rather than beneficial. |
Dave Stark
2778
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 17:59:00 -
[85] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Rebecha Pucontis wrote:Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Just as I expected I don't get any support. Mostly fail posts from fail veterans who is trying to celebrate their victory over one person. Why? Because there almost no new players in this game. You really haven't learnt anything from what people are trying to tell you in this thread have you. I exactly got what they are to tell me:" Omg. **** u didn't train all skills on time? Haha fail! We planned all ahead and u didn't. NOOB!" That's what most posts address.
actually, we just pointed out that had plenty of time to train them. however, instead of training them you're here complaining about it.... |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
193
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 18:01:00 -
[86] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:" Omg. **** u didn't train all skills on time? Haha fail! We planned all ahead and u didn't. NOOB!
Where did I tell you that you didn't train you skills on time? I told you that you really don't need all the BC skills at V, and if you ever do need them that will be such a long time down the road that the extra training time will be almost meaningless.
That and also the fact that your whinging that older players had it so easy and new players have it so hard these days, which is laughable. :)
Also, you still have a month left, so plenty of time to get your skills up if you really want them that much. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13746
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 18:02:00 -
[87] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:I exactly got what they are to tell me:" Omg. **** u didn't train all skills on time? Haha fail! We planned all ahead and u didn't. NOOB!"
That's what most posts address. GǪthen you need to read again. This time, drop the attitude and they'll be right in posting those kinds of answers.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Dave Stark
2780
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 18:07:00 -
[88] - Quote
pretty sure if the OP stops whining, and updates their skill queue, they could probably get all racial frigs to IV, all racial cruisers to III, destroyers to V, and battlecruisers to IV before june 4th. |
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
3264
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 18:08:00 -
[89] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:pretty sure if the OP stops whining, and updates their skill queue, they could probably get all racial frigs to IV, all racial cruisers to III, destroyers to V, and battlecruisers to IV before june 4th. We should just go and kill her over and over again, until she apologizes for even opening her mouth. ^_^ |
Dave Stark
2780
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 18:11:00 -
[90] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:Dave Stark wrote:pretty sure if the OP stops whining, and updates their skill queue, they could probably get all racial frigs to IV, all racial cruisers to III, destroyers to V, and battlecruisers to IV before june 4th. We should just go and kill her over and over again, until she apologizes for even opening her mouth. ^_^
i knew training destroyers V would be useful.
also just put it in evemon, 21 days to get what i just said. 42 days to get it to V. isn't 42 days from now, june 4th? oh look, it is.
edit: closer to 43 days, but meh, the OP should already have some of the skills trained anyway.. right? |
|
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
194
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 18:12:00 -
[91] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:pretty sure if the OP stops whining, and updates their skill queue, they could probably get all racial frigs to IV, all racial cruisers to III, destroyers to V, and battlecruisers to IV before june 4th.
Even if OP didn't manage to get BC and Dest completely to level V, they would be at least a good 90% of the way there and so would get all the racial BC and Dest skills given to her almost fully completed in the next expansion.
With a Per and Will remap over 1 month is almost certainly enough time to max them out though.
Edit - Looks like Dave confirmed it in evemon also ^ So OP you really have no excuse to whine. Now get out of our sight :) |
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
69
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 18:16:00 -
[92] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote: I exactly got what they are to tell me:" Omg. **** u didn't train all skills on time? Haha fail! We planned all ahead and u didn't. NOOB!"
That's what most posts address.
Actually, I believe what I said was "Haha noob thinks he needs to fly EVERYTHING". Also something something have fun something planning too long term.
There, was that easier to skim? |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4051
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 18:17:00 -
[93] - Quote
It boils down to the fact that training will be much easier for new pilots, especially since new pilots need to specialize to be effective.
Meanwhile, it will be much hard for older pilots to cross train into different racial ships.
Pretty much the exact opposite of what you believe to be the case.
If you are too ignorant to understand this, I don't know what to tell you. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami Moon Warriors
319
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 18:20:00 -
[94] - Quote
I say we pick what we want to fly, found out how to acquire what support skills for it, and then skill up for it and fly it.
Far easier than freaking out on what you MIGHT have missed out on. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url]-á for details. |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
194
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 18:24:00 -
[95] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:It boils down to the fact that training will be much easier for new pilots, especially since new pilots need to specialize to be effective.
Meanwhile, it will be much hard for older pilots to cross train into different racial ships.
Pretty much the exact opposite of what you believe to be the case.
If you are too ignorant to understand this, I don't know what to tell you.
Exactly. I tried explaining this to the OP but she still thinks we are all just trolling her. lol
The whole purpose of tiericide is to make it easier for new players to compete with veterens.
You can get an orca now in 14 days when vets had to spend months training for it to name just one example. So I really have very little sympathy for you at all. I'm glad CCP are making it easier for you, but you still have the audacity to complain. |
Kyt Thrace
Lightspeed Enterprises Fidelas Constans
132
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 18:30:00 -
[96] - Quote
I have 84 mil skill points. Dr. Caymas has over 200 mil skill points.
I think CCP should give me 116 mil skill points to allocate to whatever I like.
Just Saying... R.I.P. Vile Rat |
Varesk
Origin. Black Legion.
368
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 18:34:00 -
[97] - Quote
you still have time to train all the cruisers to 3 and bc to 5 if you start now.
|
Varesk
Origin. Black Legion.
368
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 18:35:00 -
[98] - Quote
welp you missed your chance.
sorry about that. think of the bright side of things. as a newer player you dont have to train bs V to fly a cap ship now. |
fukier
927
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 18:42:00 -
[99] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:and ******** thread of the day goes to... OP, congratulations!
hmmm... dave does have a point... At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box. |
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
328
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 18:44:00 -
[100] - Quote
This thread is worth an enormous freight container full of popcorn.
Remove insurance. |
|
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1397
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 18:52:00 -
[101] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Hi everyone. Probably my post will bring a lot of criticism but I want to make a point. Yup. Knowing that in advance is the first cue that you ought to reconsider posting.
Quote:Due to ship skills revamp people who train Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V are going to get around 6mil SP. That is fine. But players who dont do that will get nothing. Lack of planning on your part does not constitute obligation on CCP's part.
Quote:I propose that players who decided not to train the mentioned skill get partial recompensation (say 30% of the max possible skills). You propose that people who failed to plan should get something for nothing. I see.
Quote:Some of u will object because we all knew that in advance and could train Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V. Yup.
Quote:BUT while for older players 20-30 days of training is nothing newer players cant afford to spend so much time on 1-2 skills. It gives unfair advantage to older players and players who already have Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V over newer player. Who said life was fair? This is EVE. EVE is harsh. HTFU or GTFO.
Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13750
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 18:52:00 -
[102] - Quote
Bah! Too slow. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services
281
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 19:07:00 -
[103] - Quote
So -- I'm not really a great fan of the DDs or BCs, but I do love the pirate ships, and so I figured I'd invest the training time just in preparation for when they release pirate versions of those. My guess is that CCP'll have a lot of people sitting around with universal BC5 and DD5 who'll be thrilled by T2 and pirate versions of those ships-- so here's to hoping... ;) |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1397
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 19:07:00 -
[104] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Bah! Too slow. True. I R fail.
BUT... I've got BC and Dessy to V on three alts. Will have on five by the time the changes come. By the OP's premise, I win the lottery!
Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
NickyYo
SpaceFroggy
356
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 19:16:00 -
[105] - Quote
De'Veldrin wrote:Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Hi everyone. Probably my post will bring a lot of criticism but I want to make a point. Due to ship skills revamp people who train Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V are going to get around 6mil SP. That is fine. But players who dont do that will get nothing.
I propose that players who decided not to train the mentioned skill get partial recompensation (say 30% of the max possible skills). For example, if someone gets zero additional SP from summer expansion he qualifies for 6x0.3 = 2m free SP to allocate. If the player gets 2m SP from summer expansion he qualifies for (6-2)x0.3 = 1,3m free SP to allocate etc.
Some of u will object because we all knew that in advance and could train Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V. BUT while for older players 20-30 days of training is nothing newer players cant afford to spend so much time on 1-2 skills. It gives unfair advantage to older players and players who already have Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V over newer player.
That's why I propose recompensation. So let me get this right - You want a reward for failing to plan ahead for a change that has been announced for at least 6 - 9 months. How about No? Does No work for you?
Ok, smart ass.
Lets see if i get this right -
A customer would like their purchase to be transfered to a new service as the old one has become obsolete. When you view eve not as real life but as a product you pay for then the ops question is severely valid sir.
- NickyYo. .. |
De'Veldrin
East India Ore Trade The East India Co.
1316
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 19:18:00 -
[106] - Quote
NickyYo wrote:De'Veldrin wrote:Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Hi everyone. Probably my post will bring a lot of criticism but I want to make a point. Due to ship skills revamp people who train Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V are going to get around 6mil SP. That is fine. But players who dont do that will get nothing.
I propose that players who decided not to train the mentioned skill get partial recompensation (say 30% of the max possible skills). For example, if someone gets zero additional SP from summer expansion he qualifies for 6x0.3 = 2m free SP to allocate. If the player gets 2m SP from summer expansion he qualifies for (6-2)x0.3 = 1,3m free SP to allocate etc.
Some of u will object because we all knew that in advance and could train Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V. BUT while for older players 20-30 days of training is nothing newer players cant afford to spend so much time on 1-2 skills. It gives unfair advantage to older players and players who already have Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V over newer player.
That's why I propose recompensation. So let me get this right - You want a reward for failing to plan ahead for a change that has been announced for at least 6 - 9 months. How about No? Does No work for you? Ok, smart ass. Lets see if i get this right - A customer would like their purchase to be transfered to a new service as the old one has become obsolete. When you view eve not as real life but as a product you pay for then the ops question is severely valid sir. - NickyYo.
The service that is being paid for isn't changing at all. Then again I am not sure why I expected a NickyYo post to make sense. Malcanis for CSM 8
Eve Online: The full-contact sport for your brain. Twitter --á@DeVeldrin |
JamesCLK
306
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 19:20:00 -
[107] - Quote
WTB Forum "Place Bounty" button. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13754
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 19:21:00 -
[108] - Quote
NickyYo wrote:Ok, smart ass.
Lets see if i get this right -
A customer would like their purchase to be transfered to a new service as the old one has become obsolete. You didn't get it right.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Black Cadelanne
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 19:25:00 -
[109] - Quote
This is exactly the attitude of today's society. Do nothing and get it all |
De'Veldrin
East India Ore Trade The East India Co.
1316
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 19:27:00 -
[110] - Quote
Black Cadelanne wrote:This is exactly the attitude of today's society. Do nothing and get it all
It definitely seems to be the attitude of the newer crop of players. Malcanis for CSM 8
Eve Online: The full-contact sport for your brain. Twitter --á@DeVeldrin |
|
Royal Executioner Shazih
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 19:29:00 -
[111] - Quote
Black Cadelanne wrote:This is exactly the attitude of today's society. Do nothing and get it all
I'm not supposed to do anything. I pay for this game as everyone else. But I see that I'm put into disadvantageous position over older players by CCP change (concerning combat ships) and I don't like. All posts like 'deal with it' are not valid here. I want official CCP response. |
De'Veldrin
East India Ore Trade The East India Co.
1316
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 19:32:00 -
[112] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:I want official CCP response.
CCP has already given their original response on several occasions and in several other threadnaughts. Since that was all you wanted, we can close this now, right?
Malcanis for CSM 8
Eve Online: The full-contact sport for your brain. Twitter --á@DeVeldrin |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13756
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 19:33:00 -
[113] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:I'm not supposed to do anything. You are supposed to accumulate your SP like everyone else. Instead, you're asking for handouts.
Quote:But I see that I'm put into disadvantageous position over older players by CCP change (concerning combat ships) Only in the sense of GÇ£you're seeing thingsGÇ¥ = GÇ£you're hallucinatingGÇ¥. You'll be able to fly the exact same combat ships after the patch as you could before it. They'll be able to fly the exact same combat ships after the patch as they could before it.
Change in position: none.
Quote:All posts like 'deal with it' are not valid here. Oh? Why not?
Quote:I want official CCP response. The official CCP response is GÇ£deal with itGÇ¥, and has been sinceGǪ ohGǪ February 2012 or so. Since you're not losing anything, you're not getting anything. After all, why should you? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Black Cadelanne
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 19:35:00 -
[114] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Black Cadelanne wrote:This is exactly the attitude of today's society. Do nothing and get it all I'm not supposed to do anything. I pay for this game as everyone else. But I see that I'm put into disadvantageous position over older players by CCP change (concerning combat ships) and I don't like. All posts like 'deal with it' are not valid here. I want official CCP response.
and i wanna peace on earth but ....you know. dosent work. i would also a lot of money whitout work but....you know....ahhh nevermind...thats senseless. |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1399
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 19:36:00 -
[115] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote: I want official CCP response.
For this..?!
'Want' in one hand and poop in the other. See which one fills up first. Your whinging sense of self-entitlement is jawdropping.
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote: All posts like 'deal with it' are not valid here. So are all self-entitled "gimmee gimmee gimmeee things I didn't earn" posts. You knew coming into the thread you were going to get hammered. You admitted it in almost your very first words in this thread. Knowing that, you have the temerity to complain that you've recieved precisely what you predicted..? ! Words fail.
I say again: This is EVE. EVE is harsh. HTFU or GTFO. Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
69
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 19:41:00 -
[116] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:I'm not supposed to do anything. I pay for this game as everyone else. But I see that I'm put into disadvantageous position over older players by CCP change (concerning combat ships) and I don't like. I see. So you don't like the fact it will take you well over a month LESS time to train into a Dreadnaught then everyone else who already flies one?
You're right. That's not fair. But it's ok, they just deal with it. Like we deal with having to butcher our skill queues or give up on cross training. |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
3262
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 19:47:00 -
[117] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote: I'm not supposed to do anything. I pay for this game as everyone else. But I see that I'm put into disadvantageous position over older players by CCP change (concerning combat ships) and I don't like. All posts like 'deal with it' are not valid here. I want official CCP response.
The ONLY players who will be at a disadvantage are the players who create new characters and simply do not have enough time to complete the Frigs to 4, desis to 5, cruisers to 3 and BC to 5.
Everyone else has been repeated warned. Dev blogs were made long ago detailing EXACTLY what you needed to get the free stuff...thats right..THEY TOLD YOU WHAT YOU NEEDED TO DO TO GET FREE SP!!!!
For minimal effort..MINIMAL EFFORT, you too could have partaken in the glorious SP rain which ALL the rest of us will be showering in. You chose to ignore pretty much everything that was said about this change for a year, and now want to also partake in our FREE SP SHOWER?!?! NO.
Actions..or in OPs case INACTIONS have consequences. In this case, the consequence is NO FREE SP FOR YOU. Please feel free to read that in the soup **** voice, as that is the spirit in which it was intended. Also, since that voice is already preloaded into your minds..NO REMAP FOR YOU. Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Manny Moons
New Order Logistics CODE.
45
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 19:49:00 -
[118] - Quote
OP's desire to level the playing field between new players and old is commendable, but does not go far enough. Anyone who did not start playing EVE on day 1 is currently penalized by a lack of SP. Therefore, I propose each player receive a skill point credit equal to the difference between their current total, and the total of the highest SP player in the game. Further, since players without implants will continue to lag behind, I propose their SP balance be adjusted monthly to compensate. Also, since older players have had the opportunity to periodically remap their attributes, newer players should be granted additional remaps based on how long they waited to start playing EVE. And since applying so many remaps is bound to be a source of confusion for newer players, it should be possible to adjust past remaps retro-actively to optimize the training they didn't have the opportunity to do.
Once this SP scandal has been rectified, we can then address the relative wealth discrepancy between newer and older players, and redistribute assets accordingly. |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1400
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 19:52:00 -
[119] - Quote
Manny Moons wrote:Once this SP scandal has been rectified, we can then address the relative wealth discrepancy between newer and older players, and redistribute assets accordingly. The Marxism is strong with this one... Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
Royal Executioner Shazih
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 19:57:00 -
[120] - Quote
silens vesica wrote:Royal Executioner Shazih wrote: I want official CCP response.
For this..?! 'Want' in one hand and poop in the other. See which one fills up first. Your whinging sense of self-entitlement is jawdropping. Royal Executioner Shazih wrote: All posts like 'deal with it' are not valid here. So are all self-entitled "gimmee gimmee gimmeee things I didn't earn" posts. You knew coming into the thread you were going to get hammered. You admitted it in almost your very first words in this thread. Knowing that, you have the temerity to complain that you've recieved precisely what you predicted..? ! Words fail. I say again: This is EVE. EVE is harsh. HTFU or GTFO.
The only reason I expected criticism is that I already know that EVE society is corrupted. But it does not make my post invalid in any way. The only reason players stand against me is their detrimental way of thinking (if i suffered, every1 should suffer). Concerning the posts that say like 'it took me XX days to train to capital ships and u only need xx days doesn't make any sense because u already enjoyed piloting dreadnought for XX days while I haven't. |
|
FourierTransformer
17
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 20:02:00 -
[121] - Quote
Tl; dr: I'm new and feel like I should get free sp. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13758
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 20:02:00 -
[122] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:The only reason I expected criticism is that I already know that EVE society is corrupted. Oh? In what way?
Quote:But it does not make my post invalid in any way. True. What makes your post invalid is you complete lack of reasoning for why you should get a bunch of SP for no particular reason.
Quote:The only reason players stand against me is their detrimental way of thinking (if i suffered, every1 should suffer). Eh, no. There are plenty of reason to stand against your idea that you should be GÇ£compensatedGÇ¥ for nothing. One of them is that you're asking to be compensated for nothing. Another is that you're already getting a much more optimise skill tree, so you have nothing to complain about. Yet another is that you have fundamentally misunderstood what the change and skill reimbursement is all about or how it works.
None of it is about how you have to GÇ£sufferGÇ¥ GÇö largely because you are the only one that think it's in any way related to suffering and punishment. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Royal Executioner Shazih
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 20:03:00 -
[123] - Quote
I see how bad EVE society because I played many games and read many forums. Let's take League of legends. Players ask for sale there all the time and no1 writes like' hey I paid for that char full price, so u have too'. Even when I bought a char for full price and it was put on sale 2 weeks later I never flamed about it, because I've already been enjoying it for 2 weeks.
But EVE players played EVE too much and so here all I get is: 'EVE is harsh. Deal with it. etc.' U guys forgot that EVE just a game. |
Dave Stark
2786
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 20:05:00 -
[124] - Quote
yes, eve is a game. congratulations.
now why don't you play it, instead of complaining about it? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13759
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 20:06:00 -
[125] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:I see how bad EVE society because I played many games and read many forums. GǪand what's said on the forums is always true.
So could you actually present some kind of argument or evidence for once? How is EVE society GÇ£badGÇ¥? More to the point: why does it matter? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
3265
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 20:07:00 -
[126] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:yes, eve is a game. congratulations.
now why don't you play it, instead of complaining about it?
Dave...that IS how some people play the game...
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Royal Executioner Shazih
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 20:08:00 -
[127] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:The only reason I expected criticism is that I already know that EVE society is corrupted. Oh? In what way? Quote:But it does not make my post invalid in any way. True. What makes your post invalid is you complete lack of reasoning for why you should get a bunch of SP for no particular reason. Quote:The only reason players stand against me is their detrimental way of thinking (if i suffered, every1 should suffer). Eh, no. There are plenty of reason to stand against your idea that you should be GÇ£compensatedGÇ¥ for nothing. One of them is that you're asking to be compensated for nothing. Another is that you're already getting a much more optimise skill tree, so you have nothing to complain about. Yet another is that you have fundamentally misunderstood what the change and skill reimbursement is all about or how it works. None of it is about how you have to GÇ£sufferGÇ¥ GÇö largely because you are the only one that think it's in any way related to suffering and punishment.
If the skill tree was so bad, then y did u play it then at that time? U should have left then. But u stayed. Why do u use it as a point now then? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13759
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 20:12:00 -
[128] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:If the skill tree was so bad, then y did u play it then at that time? Non sequitur.
You know what's great? Bacon! You know what's even better? Bacon and eggs.
Does bacon and eggs mean I should throw out the bacon? Hell no, because it's great.
Oh, and you'll note that I didn't say that the skill tree was badGǪ that's just you projecting your GÇ£suffering/punishmentGÇ¥ feelings. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4055
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 20:15:00 -
[129] - Quote
Okay, now you are getting to the point where you are becoming an embarrassment to Blue pilots in general. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Captain Tardbar
NEWB ALERT
304
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 20:20:00 -
[130] - Quote
This thread is full of personal attacks without any rogerian style of argument.
The sticking point of this matter is that perhaps CCP is rewarding players for training in advance.
Instead of taking the side of the OP or the other players, I would argue that no one should be rewarded.
If you skilled up to level V. Too bad, you have to train it again.
It is the only gentlemen's solution. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
|
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1401
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 20:24:00 -
[131] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:I But EVE players played EVE too much and so here all I get is: 'EVE is harsh. Deal with it. etc.' U guys forgot that EVE just a game. Yup. It's a game. It's a harsh game. Everyone in this thread save you seems to get that.
Do not compare EVE to another game, and then claim that such comparison makes your unreasonable demands reasonable. That other game is a different game and the conditions that apply there in no way, shape, or form place any obligation on CCP. Any such claim is futile, false, and further demonstrates your failure to understand that CCP is only answerable for those things that CCP does or has done.
CCP has done: - Given a detailed description of upcoming changes, broadly communicated in a clear and logical manner. - Warned us multiple times PRECISELY what we need to do to capitalize on upcoming changes. - Left us on our own to behave like rational beings and act on what they've done and plan to do.
It is entirely clear you have failed to follow through. For that, we should agree with you? Be nice to your silly demand? I think not.
Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
3266
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 20:28:00 -
[132] - Quote
Eve is rough. Please purchase a helmet through the NEX.
Unless you want to complain about not being given enough free AUR next. Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Screenlag
Rosendal Research and Development
40
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 20:36:00 -
[133] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Hi everyone. Probably my post will bring a lot of criticism but I want to make a point. Due to ship skills revamp people who train Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V are going to get around 6mil SP. That is fine. But players who dont do that will get nothing.
I propose that players who decided not to train the mentioned skill get partial recompensation (say 30% of the max possible skills). For example, if someone gets zero additional SP from summer expansion he qualifies for 6x0.3 = 2m free SP to allocate. If the player gets 2m SP from summer expansion he qualifies for (6-2)x0.3 = 1,3m free SP to allocate etc.
Some of u will object because we all knew that in advance and could train Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V. BUT while for older players 20-30 days of training is nothing newer players cant afford to spend so much time on 1-2 skills. It gives unfair advantage to older players and players who already have Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V over newer player.
That's why I propose recompensation.
You still have time. If you actually want BC5 and not just free SP then begin training. |
Shaera Taam
Minmatar Death Squad Broken Chains Alliance
61
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 20:36:00 -
[134] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
I am a firm believer that current skill system in EVE is the second-largest singular detrimental factor to the game's player base growth. Largest factor being the current player base. But the OP brings up an interesting point.
OK, those of us who are playing now, and have been for a while, all planned ahead and trained Destroyers and BCs to V. I know I did. But what about new players? You know, those "the few, the proud, the nooby"? What about them? Imagine one of those guys joining the game and finding out that within weeks (meaning there's no way in holy hell he can do it fast enough) he will miss out on additional 6 million SP worth of training time, which translates into what, 3.7 months worth of training at 2200 SP/hr? How do you think this will make the new player feel? Smart move?
Personally I'd rather see the whole SP and training system scrubbed or at least totally overhauled. Then again, I'm a realist, and I know it will never happen as it is pretty much the only thing still holding this game together. Well, that and bird droppings.
Wow... Really? My sarcasm meter never even twitched...
Go. Play. Another. Game.
Leave this one to those of us that enjoy it the way it is and the direction it is heading.
O, wait, I forgot... You won't do that, because then you won't have something to complain about... My bad... Carry on...
Thus Spake the Frigate Goddess! |
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
70
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 20:38:00 -
[135] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: The ONLY players who will be at a disadvantage are the players who create new characters and simply do not have enough time to complete the Frigs to 4, desis to 5, cruisers to 3 and BC to 5.
What disadvantage?
A new player that wants to fly a recon no longer needs to train Racial Frigate 5, covops 4. Just cloaking 4 which you need anyway to actually fly the ship.
A new player that wants to fly a dictor doesn't have to train Frigate 5, Evasive Maneuvering 5 and Interceptor 4 any more. He can move right on to Destroyer 5 and train for the interdiction probe launcher. The skill progression also translates into a HIC MUCH better.
The only disadvantage is to someone who has pvp in command ships of all four races as their goal, all on the same character for some reason. And is just starting now. How long does it take to max out related gunnery drone and tank skills again? And the leadership skills for max links? Not to mention HM HAM and missile support skills? I would be seriously surprised if the collective training time for a new character to accomplish that went up by as much as 10%.
It's so niche, it's negligible compared to the real benefits for new characters. Unless you're starting up a universal on-grid boosting alt. |
Royal Executioner Shazih
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 20:38:00 -
[136] - Quote
silens vesica wrote:Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:I But EVE players played EVE too much and so here all I get is: 'EVE is harsh. Deal with it. etc.' U guys forgot that EVE just a game. Yup. It's a game. It's a harsh game. Everyone in this thread save you seems to get that. Do not compare EVE to another game, and then claim that such comparison makes your unreasonable demands reasonable. That other game is a different game and the conditions that apply there in no way, shape, or form place any obligation on CCP. Any such claim is futile, false, and further demonstrates your failure to understand that CCP is only answerable for those things that CCP does or has done. CCP has done: - Given a detailed description of upcoming changes, broadly communicated in a clear and logical manner. - Warned us multiple times PRECISELY what we need to do to capitalize on upcoming changes. - Left us on our own to behave like rational beings and act on what they've done and plan to do. It is entirely clear you have failed to follow through. For that, we should agree with you? Be nice to your silly demand? I think not. Captain Tardbar wrote: If you skilled up to level V. Too bad, you have to train it again.
It is the only gentlemen's solution.
No, Sir. It is not. That is A solution. CCP has, in its wisdom, decided that your proposal is not the best way forward.
Reported
|
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1401
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 20:40:00 -
[137] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote: Reported
That's nice. Also an utter waste of your time.
Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
Dave Stark
2789
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 20:40:00 -
[138] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Reported
reported for abusing the report system. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13763
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 20:43:00 -
[139] - Quote
Georgina Parmala wrote:The only disadvantage is to someone who has pvp in command ships of all four races as their goal, all on the same character for some reason. Actually, while I haven't checked since they rejiggered the CS prereqs to include more leadership skills, last I checked, going for all 8 command ships was actually several million SPs under the new scheme than under the old one, since you no longer had to go for the entire Logi+HAC cruiser branch.
Sure, with the leadership skills added in, it won't be quite as much, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's still hellalot cheaper and faster than before. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
3267
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 20:46:00 -
[140] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote: Reported
So you want to have a discussion about wanting free SP, and you report anyone who disagrees with you?
The fact is, if you wanted a response from CCP, you should have petitioned it. When you posted in the forums, you consented to having people disagree with you and even present their own thoughts and arguements. The fact is the only subforum that is monitored actively by CCP is F&I, the others are monitored by ISDs who cannot give you what you are seeking. Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
|
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4670
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 20:53:00 -
[141] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:silens vesica wrote:Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:I But EVE players played EVE too much and so here all I get is: 'EVE is harsh. Deal with it. etc.' U guys forgot that EVE just a game. Yup. It's a game. It's a harsh game. Everyone in this thread save you seems to get that. Do not compare EVE to another game, and then claim that such comparison makes your unreasonable demands reasonable. That other game is a different game and the conditions that apply there in no way, shape, or form place any obligation on CCP. Any such claim is futile, false, and further demonstrates your failure to understand that CCP is only answerable for those things that CCP does or has done. CCP has done: - Given a detailed description of upcoming changes, broadly communicated in a clear and logical manner. - Warned us multiple times PRECISELY what we need to do to capitalize on upcoming changes. - Left us on our own to behave like rational beings and act on what they've done and plan to do. It is entirely clear you have failed to follow through. For that, we should agree with you? Be nice to your silly demand? I think not. Captain Tardbar wrote: If you skilled up to level V. Too bad, you have to train it again.
It is the only gentlemen's solution.
No, Sir. It is not. That is A solution. CCP has, in its wisdom, decided that your proposal is not the best way forward. Reported My god, cry more why don't you. Someone shows you how you're wrong, and you report them. This is not how responsible adults behave. Module activation timers are buggy. CCP please fix. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4670
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 20:55:00 -
[142] - Quote
Man, I really wish you could downvote posts. That one just rustled my jimmies. Module activation timers are buggy. CCP please fix. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13766
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 20:56:00 -
[143] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Man, I really wish you could downvote posts. That one just rustled my jimmies. There's always the bounty systemGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1401
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 20:56:00 -
[144] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Georgina Parmala wrote:The only disadvantage is to someone who has pvp in command ships of all four races as their goal, all on the same character for some reason. Actually, while I haven't checked since they rejiggered the CS prereqs to include more leadership skills, last I checked, going for all 8 command ships was actually several million SPs under the new scheme than under the old one, since you no longer had to go for the entire Logi+HAC cruiser branch. Sure, with the leadership skills added in, it won't be quite as much, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's still hellalot cheaper and faster than before. I'm actually going to get very little real benefit, since I already have all 8 Command Ships on my main - and a couple other toons as well. Sure, I'm going to get a bunch of shiny free SP, which will make absolutely zero impact on my play, because they'll give me nothing that I don't already have.
But that understanding seems a mental stretch too far for some folks.
James Amril-Kesh wrote: My god, cry more why don't you. Someone shows you how you're wrong, and you report them. This is not how responsible adults behave.
Methinks you have placed your finger on the nub of the problem. Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
Dave Stark
2790
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 20:57:00 -
[145] - Quote
Tippia wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Man, I really wish you could downvote posts. That one just rustled my jimmies. There's always the bounty systemGǪ
they're unworthy of the isk. |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
3268
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 20:58:00 -
[146] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Man, I really wish you could downvote posts. That one just rustled my jimmies.
Agreed.
But then again id be -10k likes and get ganked on sight be the ISDs. Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4670
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 21:00:00 -
[147] - Quote
Tippia wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Man, I really wish you could downvote posts. That one just rustled my jimmies. There's always the bounty systemGǪ I did that once. I placed a 5m bounty on a guy and he subsequently placed a 350m bounty on me. It was quite amusing but I'm not generally into wasting my isk like that. Module activation timers are buggy. CCP please fix. |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1401
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 21:02:00 -
[148] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Man, I really wish you could downvote posts. That one just rustled my jimmies. I could have 'gone off' on that bit of silliness, but really, that'd be like sandblasting a soupcracker. Amusing for a second, but rather pointless.
We've discovered the root problem (which you nicely articulated), and we can move on now. The thread is essentially done now, save for further sandblasting of the soupcrakers' crumbs. Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
3268
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 21:05:00 -
[149] - Quote
silens vesica wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Man, I really wish you could downvote posts. That one just rustled my jimmies. I could have 'gone off' on that bit of silliness, but really, that'd be like sandblasting a soupcracker. Amusing for a second, but rather pointless. We've discovered the root problem (which you nicely articulated), and we can move on now. The thread is essentially done now, save for further sandblasting of the soupcrakers' crumbs.
Well just wait. The week before the expansion we will be flooded with these posts. The week after, posts seeking free remaps. Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
4521
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 21:07:00 -
[150] - Quote
This idea is just ridiculous. Can I have a free 10,000,000 SP just because I've been playing 3 years and not 10 ? Pretty please ?
Sheesh. There is much to be said in favour of modern journalism. By giving us the opinions of the uneducated, it keeps us in touch with the ignorance of the community.-á-á-á-á - Oscar Wilde |
|
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
70
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 21:09:00 -
[151] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Let's take League of legends. Players ask for sale there all the time and no1 writes like' hey I paid for that char full price, so u have too'. Even when I bought a char for full price and it was put on sale 2 weeks later I never flamed about it, because I've already been enjoying it for 2 weeks.
But EVE players played EVE too much and so here all I get is: 'EVE is harsh. Deal with it. etc.' U guys forgot that EVE just a game. Yes, lets.
There are no "skill point" sales in league. There are "Aurum" sales. Kind of like EvE has PLEX bundle sales.
This relates to character progression how? Oh right, you can buy boosts in league that increase leveling speed for noobs, kind of like buying PLEX to fund implants in EvE.
Also, the reason people tell you to deal with it when you buy a character that then goes on sale, is the sales are announced well in advance. Sound familiar?
They reduce in-game prices of old characters over time. Kind of like EvE is about to reduce training requirements on specialized ships. Both have the same goal - to help a new player catch up to a competitive level.
You're just mad that I have every single champion in the League. That **** took effort. Err, made a skill plan that gave me what I wanted out of the skill changes.
(Disclaimer: I don't actually have every single champion in league - any more, since I started playing EvE I'm about 10 short) |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13769
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 21:09:00 -
[152] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:Well just wait. The week before the expansion we will be flooded with these posts. The week after, posts seeking free remaps.
Remaps..and clone cost whines. I'm thinking about making one of those myself.
Or, wellGǪ perhaps not so much about the cost as about the SP limits. The 120M limit was so perfect for my plans, and now I'll end up at 123 when all is said and done. I suppose I could just as well keep going to the next limit thenGǪ
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1403
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 21:09:00 -
[153] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:silens vesica wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Man, I really wish you could downvote posts. That one just rustled my jimmies. I could have 'gone off' on that bit of silliness, but really, that'd be like sandblasting a soupcracker. Amusing for a second, but rather pointless. We've discovered the root problem (which you nicely articulated), and we can move on now. The thread is essentially done now, save for further sandblasting of the soupcrakers' crumbs. Well just wait. The week before the expansion we will be flooded with these posts. The week after, posts seeking free remaps. Remaps..and clone cost whines. I shall call you Cassandra, Sir! Oh, wait... that won't work, 'cause I believe you.
Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
98
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 21:09:00 -
[154] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:Royal Executioner Shazih wrote: Reported
So you want to have a discussion about wanting free SP, and you report anyone who disagrees with you? The fact is, if you wanted a response from CCP, you should have petitioned it. When you posted in the forums, you consented to having people disagree with you and even present their own thoughts and arguements. The fact is the only subforum that is monitored actively by CCP is F&I, the others are monitored by ISDs who cannot give you what you are seeking.
She reported that post because all of you (except NickyYo) are being ******** asses.
It's not a bad idea - it's a pretty good one. Come June 4, Drake pilots are being handed the ability to fly Talos', Tornados and Oracles for a little bit of additional Frig/Cruiser training. Sleipnir pilots are being handed the ability to fly Vultures, Damnations and Eos' for the same paltry amount of training.
Stop making strange comparisons to day 1 EVE players and fresh-from-the-tutorial newbs. The big, gaping difference will be between 6-8 month old players and 2-3 month old players. Those just slightly older are going to gain a massive benefit come June 4 - the pain of cross-training many classes of ships will disappear for them; for the slightly newer players, a whole new world of time-draining cross-training will magically appear.
And stop with the equally stupid arguments about needing all those unique gun skills to fly these various battlecruisers - you do realize how long it takes to train a medium weapons system to IV, right? And with the quick train to go from projectile weapons to energy turrets, slightly older players get an entire new lineup of ships . . . . while slightly younger players get to spend a month or more of newly-imposed training in order to get access to one solitary race's ships (and still have to train those weapons systems).
I know you guys like to get all frothy and entitled about how "EVE is so harsh" and "take it up the chute like a champ, I do!" but it's certainly reasonable to expect some sort of compensation from CCP on this issue. And as you frothily dart for the dictionary looking for the word "compensation" I'll just go ahead and change that word to "goodwill gesture" or "gift" or whatever other word will still get your panties in a bunch (but in a slightly different way).
Granting a reasonable chunk of SP to new-er players who are here to see the change but too young to take advantage of it (assuming they want to) is, by far, the equitable thing to do. Kudos to the OP for having the courage to raise such a difficult subject in the face of piles of forum spurge.
|
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
198
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 21:10:00 -
[155] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:I want official CCP response.
LOL hahahah. The OP thinks they are going to get an official CCP response for this???..... *Resumes Laughing Hysterically!" :)
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13769
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 21:12:00 -
[156] - Quote
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:Granting a reasonable chunk of SP to new-er players who are here to see the change but too young to take advantage of it (assuming they want to) is, by far, the equitable thing to do. How is giving away free abilities to people more equitable than letting everyone have exactly the same abilities as before?
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
70
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 21:19:00 -
[157] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Georgina Parmala wrote:The only disadvantage is to someone who has pvp in command ships of all four races as their goal, all on the same character for some reason. Actually, while I haven't checked since they rejiggered the CS prereqs to include more leadership skills, last I checked, going for all 8 command ships was actually several million SPs under the new scheme than under the old one, since you no longer had to go for the entire Logi+HAC cruiser branch. Sure, with the leadership skills added in, it won't be quite as much, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's still hellalot cheaper and faster than before.
You're right, I forgot about that part.
In other words, it's a disadvantage only to noobs that expect to fly everything with all 5's miraculously catching up to 10 year vets without buying a 100+ mil sp character. Or the odd "I want to pvp in all teh battlecruisers" guy.
I wonder if OP would want Titan 5 for all 4 races while at it. |
|
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
212
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 21:23:00 -
[158] - Quote
I have removed some posts that broke the rules. Not all of course, although that would shorten the thread considerably. Maybe next time, so please behave...
2. Be respectful toward others at all times.
The purpose of the EVE Online forums is to provide a platform for exchange of ideas, and a venue for the discussion of EVE Online. Occasionally there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Forum users are expected to be courteous when disagreeing with others.
ISD Ezwal Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
|
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
3273
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 21:24:00 -
[159] - Quote
Georgina Parmala wrote:... Or the odd "I want to pvp in all teh battlecruisers" guy.
Hey now, im not odd, I just like having alot of choices. Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
98
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 21:24:00 -
[160] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:Granting a reasonable chunk of SP to new-er players who are here to see the change but too young to take advantage of it (assuming they want to) is, by far, the equitable thing to do. How is giving away free abilities to people more equitable than letting everyone have exactly the same abilities as before?
You continue to be obtuse - I am unsurprised.
CCP already is "giving away free abilities" on June 4. What part of that don't you understand.
They. Are. Giving. Away. Free. Abilities. They are giving away Amarr Battlecruiser V, Caldari Battlecruiser IV, Gallente Destroyer IV, etc.
Some people will be given these skills, and have their generic "Battlecruiser" and "Destroyer" skills taken away. Others won't be given these skills, and will need to train each_and_every_one of them separately. Potentially months of additional training to look forward to.
Post change, people will be able to fly the same SHIPS, but that does not mean that they'll have the same SKILLS.
|
|
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1404
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 21:24:00 -
[161] - Quote
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:Royal Executioner Shazih wrote: Reported
So you want to have a discussion about wanting free SP, and you report anyone who disagrees with you? The fact is, if you wanted a response from CCP, you should have petitioned it. When you posted in the forums, you consented to having people disagree with you and even present their own thoughts and arguements. The fact is the only subforum that is monitored actively by CCP is F&I, the others are monitored by ISDs who cannot give you what you are seeking. She reported that post because all of you (except NickyYo) are being ******** asses. It's not a bad idea - it's a pretty good one. Interesting take. Completely pointless, and rather wrong-headed, but what the hell. At least you're doing something a little bit different than the OP.
But not much different.
I will ask you, what will those extra SP give me, come implementation day? Not a blessed thing I don't already have. And you think some self-entitled whinger should be given a leg up for failing to have planned in advance? Feh. Greedy grab for freebies is greedy.
As for the 'Report' - if you honestly think it was justified, I suggest that you have rice-paper skin and should be living in a padded cell. Clearly adult conversation is too much for you. But maybe I'm wrong. We'll see soon enough - The report will be examined, and acted upon. Or discarded like the trash I think it is.
Will you have the fortitude to fess up to being wrong when nothing happens to me? Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
Jonah Gravenstein
Khalkotauroi Defence Labs
8067
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 21:30:00 -
[162] - Quote
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote: CCP already is "giving away free abilities" on June 4. What part of that don't you understand.
They. Are. Giving. Away. Free. Abilities. They are giving away Amarr Battlecruiser V, Caldari Battlecruiser IV, Gallente Destroyer IV, etc.
Some people will be given these skills, and have their generic "Battlecruiser" and "Destroyer" skills taken away. Others won't be given these skills, and will need to train each_and_every_one of them separately. Potentially months of additional training to look forward to.
Post change, people will be able to fly the same SHIPS, but that does not mean that they'll have the same SKILLS.
Those new skills aren't being given away, they are being exchanged for the skills that they are replacing. If people have invested the time to train Destroyers V and Battlecruisers V then they should reap the rewards on their time investment, especially if they have had the forethought to train all the prerequisite racial frigate and cruiser skills as well.
What part of "if you can fly it now, you will be able to fly it after the patch" do you not understand? It's not like there was any big secret involved, CCP announced the changes months ago. A war hasn't been fought this badly since Olaf the Hairy, High Chief of all the Vikings, accidentally ordered 80,000 battle helmets with the horns on the inside. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13772
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 21:30:00 -
[163] - Quote
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:CCP already is "giving away free abilities" on June 4. What part of that don't you understand. Let's seeGǪ
Before the patch, I can fly Amarr, Caldari, Gallente and Minmatar BCs and Destroyers at V, all 8 CS, and all 4 Dictors. After the patch, I can fly Amarr, Caldari, Gallente and Minmatar BCs and Destroyers at V, all 8 CS, and all 4 Dictors.
So I guess the part I don't understand is this: what abilities have they given me for free?
Quote:They are giving away Amarr Battlecruiser V, Caldari Battlecruiser IV, Gallente Destroyer IV, etc. No, they're not. They're retaining abilities that people already had. No-one is getting anything new (other than the occasional increased clone cost). That's why they chose this route: because SP don't matter in the end. What matters is what you can fly, what you can fit, and what you can do GÇö your abilities. The entire change is built around leaving people's abilities completely untouched (they're even changing the skill training mechanics to ensure this).
Quote:Post change, people will be able to fly the same SHIPS GǪwhich means they have the same abilities as before. So how is giving away free abilities to people more equitable than letting everyone have exactly the same abilities as before?
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
98
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 21:33:00 -
[164] - Quote
silens vesica wrote:
But not much different.
I will ask you, what will those extra SP give me, come implementation day? Not a blessed thing I don't already have. And you think some self-entitled whinger should be given a leg up for failing to have planned in advance? Feh. Greedy grab for freebies is greedy.
As for the 'Report' - if you honestly think it was justified, I suggest that you have rice-paper skin and should be living in a padded cell. Clearly adult conversation is too much for you. But maybe I'm wrong. We'll see soon enough - The report will be examined, and acted upon. Or discarded like the trash I think it is.
Will you have the fortitude to fess up to being wrong when nothing happens to me?
Those "extra" SP will (assuming all Racial BC and Destroyers go to V) unlock all the various racial destroyers, interdictors, battlecruisers, battleships, command ships . . . . etc.
And no, you don't have them yet. You have two skills: Destroyers and Battlecruisers. That will become 8 seperate skills on June 4 - none of which you have right now. At most, you've spent enough real time training for two of them - but will get all 8.
|
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
199
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 21:34:00 -
[165] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Black Cadelanne wrote:This is exactly the attitude of today's society. Do nothing and get it all I'm not supposed to do anything. I pay for this game as everyone else. But I see that I'm put into disadvantageous position over older players by CCP change (concerning combat ships) and I don't like. All posts like 'deal with it' are not valid here. I want official CCP response.
Lets revert the Orca change so you have to spend months training mining barge to fly it instead of 14 days.
Lets revert all the learning skills so you have to train them all up before training something which you want to train.
Lets revert all the tiericide changes so you have to spend months training into a tech 2 ship before you can compete with more advanced players.
CCP is doing a lot for newbies like yourself which older players didn't have, and yet you just complain more. |
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
98
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 21:35:00 -
[166] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote: CCP already is "giving away free abilities" on June 4. What part of that don't you understand.
They. Are. Giving. Away. Free. Abilities. They are giving away Amarr Battlecruiser V, Caldari Battlecruiser IV, Gallente Destroyer IV, etc.
Some people will be given these skills, and have their generic "Battlecruiser" and "Destroyer" skills taken away. Others won't be given these skills, and will need to train each_and_every_one of them separately. Potentially months of additional training to look forward to.
Post change, people will be able to fly the same SHIPS, but that does not mean that they'll have the same SKILLS.
Those new skills aren't being given away, they are being exchanged for the skills that they are replacing. If people have invested the time to train Destroyers V and Battlecruisers V then they should reap the rewards on their time investment, especially if they have had the forethought to train all the prerequisite racial frigate and cruiser skills as well. What part of "if you can fly it now, you will be able to fly it after the patch" do you not understand? It's not like there was any big secret involved, CCP announced the changes months ago.
Exchanged . . . at a 4:1 ratio. There is nothing to "reap." You're not "winning" the skill queue. You just joined the game several months earlier than some people . . . and feel entitled to a gigantic influx of free SP (sorry, "reap the rewards")
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Khalkotauroi Defence Labs
8067
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 21:36:00 -
[167] - Quote
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:silens vesica wrote:
But not much different.
I will ask you, what will those extra SP give me, come implementation day? Not a blessed thing I don't already have. And you think some self-entitled whinger should be given a leg up for failing to have planned in advance? Feh. Greedy grab for freebies is greedy.
As for the 'Report' - if you honestly think it was justified, I suggest that you have rice-paper skin and should be living in a padded cell. Clearly adult conversation is too much for you. But maybe I'm wrong. We'll see soon enough - The report will be examined, and acted upon. Or discarded like the trash I think it is.
Will you have the fortitude to fess up to being wrong when nothing happens to me?
Those "extra" SP will (assuming all Racial BC and Destroyers go to V) unlock all the various racial destroyers, interdictors, battlecruisers, battleships, command ships . . . . etc. And no, you don't have them yet. You have two skills: Destroyers and Battlecruisers. That will become 8 seperate skills on June 4 - none of which you have right now. At most, you've spent enough real time training for two of them - but will get all 8.
Guess what, anybody who has the racial prerequisites trained, Destroyer V and Battlecruiser V already has those options open to them, nothing has changed, except the clone cost to retain those options, crawl back under your rock sir, your idiocy has no place here, even if it is general discussion.
A war hasn't been fought this badly since Olaf the Hairy, High Chief of all the Vikings, accidentally ordered 80,000 battle helmets with the horns on the inside. |
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
98
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 21:39:00 -
[168] - Quote
*** Post edited for continuity and flow, quoted posts removed as well *** |
Jonah Gravenstein
Khalkotauroi Defence Labs
8067
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 21:39:00 -
[169] - Quote
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote: Exchanged . . . at a 4:1 ratio. There is nothing to "reap." You're not "winning" the skill queue. You just joined the game several months earlier than some people . . . and feel entitled to a gigantic influx of free SP (sorry, "reap the rewards")
I invested the time to train up those skills, so that I could fly those ships. Why should I lose the ability to do so? The SP is largely irrelevant with the exception of increased clone cost, each ship class has a skill cap, and this change is all about not depriving players of the ability to fly the ships they have already trained for.
Talking about fail, you should also learn to quote properly. A war hasn't been fought this badly since Olaf the Hairy, High Chief of all the Vikings, accidentally ordered 80,000 battle helmets with the horns on the inside. |
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
98
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 21:42:00 -
[170] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote: Exchanged . . . at a 4:1 ratio. There is nothing to "reap." You're not "winning" the skill queue. You just joined the game several months earlier than some people . . . and feel entitled to a gigantic influx of free SP (sorry, "reap the rewards")
I invested the time to train up those skills, so that I could fly those ships. Why should I lose the ability to do so? The SP is largely irrelevant with the exception of increased clone cost, each ship class has a skill cap, and this change is all about not depriving players of the ability to fly the ships they have already trained for.
You shouldn't have to lose them - not even the OP is saying you should.
And the SP is highly relevant - it's a prereq to flying the ship.
It's about equity for new(er) players.
|
|
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
199
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 21:43:00 -
[171] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:But EVE players played EVE too much and so here all I get is: 'EVE is harsh. Deal with it. etc.' U guys forgot that EVE just a game.
Eve is one of the best games available and has been going for almost ten years because CCP doesn't listen to tards like you. Tards who will constantly complain that they want everything instantly, and as a result cause the game to be dumbed down so much that it becomes a rubbish version of pink ponies online. You and others of your ilk may have achieved that in other games, but the only solution you will get to your self entitled complaints in Eve is to biomass yourself. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Khalkotauroi Defence Labs
8067
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 21:43:00 -
[172] - Quote
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:
You shouldn't have to lose them - not even the OP is saying you should.
And the SP is highly relevant - it's a prereq to flying the ship.
It's about equity for new(er) players.
Equity? So you're basically saying that new players should be able to fly the same ships that I've invested months in training for, simply because they're new? GTFO this isn't some marxist utopia.
A war hasn't been fought this badly since Olaf the Hairy, High Chief of all the Vikings, accidentally ordered 80,000 battle helmets with the horns on the inside. |
Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1260
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 21:45:00 -
[173] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:That's why I propose recompensation.
You want compensation for lazy decisions? Really? I'd call "troll" on your post but I have a feeling you're serious. "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami Moon Warriors
320
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 21:45:00 -
[174] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:silens vesica wrote:Royal Executioner Shazih wrote: I want official CCP response.
For this..?! 'Want' in one hand and poop in the other. See which one fills up first. Your whinging sense of self-entitlement is jawdropping. Royal Executioner Shazih wrote: All posts like 'deal with it' are not valid here. So are all self-entitled "gimmee gimmee gimmeee things I didn't earn" posts. You knew coming into the thread you were going to get hammered. You admitted it in almost your very first words in this thread. Knowing that, you have the temerity to complain that you've recieved precisely what you predicted..? ! Words fail. I say again: This is EVE. EVE is harsh. HTFU or GTFO. The only reason I expected criticism is that I already know that EVE society is corrupted. But it does not make my post invalid in any way. The only reason players stand against me is their detrimental way of thinking (if i suffered, every1 should suffer). Concerning the posts that say like 'it took me XX days to train to capital ships and u only need xx days doesn't make any sense because u already enjoyed piloting dreadnought for XX days while I haven't.
Would you rather CCP bill you for the time you would in turn owe them for having to train those skills to the same levels?
That's what you're asking for. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url]-á for details. |
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
98
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 21:50:00 -
[175] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:
You shouldn't have to lose them - not even the OP is saying you should.
And the SP is highly relevant - it's a prereq to flying the ship.
It's about equity for new(er) players.
The SP is irrelevant, a new player can buy a character with eleventy billion SP, and still not be able to fly any of the ships that character has the skills for properly, the real skills lie in knowing what the ship and its systems are capable of, and knowing how to get the maximum out of them, something that comes with time, and exploding a lot. In other words, real world knowledge and skills are way more important than the SP. Equity? So you're basically saying that new players should be able to fly the same ships that I've invested months in training for, simply because they're new? GTFO this isn't some marxist utopia.
Really. You invested "months" in training for Amarr Battlecruiser, Caldari Battlecruiser, Gallente Battlecruiser, and Minmatar Battlecruiser?
Quick question - where did you buy the skillbooks?
Love the "marxist utopia" bit though, makes you seem very . . . yeah.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13774
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 21:52:00 -
[176] - Quote
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:Really. You invested "months" in training for Amarr Battlecruiser, Caldari Battlecruiser, Gallente Battlecruiser, and Minmatar Battlecruiser? Yes, he (and many others) invested time in the ability to fly all four races' battlecruisers. Why should others be given tons of new abilities just because he retains his? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
3275
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 21:52:00 -
[177] - Quote
Hello new pilot, welcome to New Eden!
Here is a Noobship since you do not have the skill to fly the frigate of your race, here is a civilian gun becasue you do no have the skills to use a real one yet.
We are sorry about the lack of skills we have not given you from the get go. To keep you in pace with the rest of New Eden, We have given you all 4 racial destroyer skills at level 5 ...and all 4 racial Battlecruiser skills at level 5. We did this because 2 people on the forums deemed it was fair and did not wish to train the necessary prereqs like everyone else.
Please enjoy flying a brutix with 6 civilian electron blasters on it...and nothing else becasue you cant fit anything yet.
Please enjoy the completely even footing we have provided you. Also, please upgrade your clone, as your Alpha clone cannot retain all the free skillpoints we have given you. We would hate for you to undock and engage in a competely "fair" fight and lose all your free SP.
We hope you have a great experience in Eve!
CCP. Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Sanya Chan
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
2
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 21:53:00 -
[178] - Quote
All I'm gonna say is thank god the op is in blue and I can shoot them all day |
Nathalie LaPorte
Republic University Minmatar Republic
118
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 21:54:00 -
[179] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:If the skill tree was so bad, then y did u play it then at that time? Non sequitur. You know what's great? Bacon! You know what's even better? Bacon and eggs. Does bacon and eggs mean I should throw out the bacon? Hell no, because it's great. Oh, and you'll note that I didn't say that the skill tree was badGǪ that's just you projecting your Gǣsuffering/punishmentGǥ feelings.
Technically her argument isn't a non sequitur, but more of a self-defeating oxymoron.
The analogy is more like this: She claims that this change is unacceptable, because now she has 2 bacons and three eggs, and she thinks that it's unfair that after the change she only has three eggs. You point out that before the change she only had zero eggs, so why is she against the change on the basis of not enough eggs, if it gave her more eggs. She says "omg, why are you still here, you had zero eggs before? If I were being shortchanged on eggs, I'd quit EVE and never post here again". Then everyone looks at her in bemused silence. |
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
98
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 21:55:00 -
[180] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:And the SP is highly relevant - it's a prereq to flying the ship. No. The SP doesn't determine what you can fly. The skills GÇö or, more accurately, the abilities they unlock GÇö do. These abilities are retained so that everyone can do exactly the same thing they could do before, and no-one gains any new or loses any old abilities. The status quo of GÇ£powerGÇ¥ remains exactly the same. Quote:It's about equity for new(er) players. How is it equitable to hand out abilities to newbies, but not to older players? How is it more equitable than the abilities remaining exactly the same?
Potato/potatoe. You're just arguing for the sake of arguing. Call it SP or call it "skills" the fact remains that you don't have Amarr Battlecruiser V right now. You don't have it, you can't train for it.
On June 4, you will have it - despite having never trained it. As a result, you will be able to fly 3 Amarr battlecruiser-class ships.
You also don't have Caldari Battlecruiser V right now. You don't have it, you can't train for it.
On June 4, you will have it - despite having never trained it. As a result, you will be able to fly 3 Caldari battlecruiser-class ships.
OP does not have Amarr Battlecruiser V trained right now. She doesn't have it, she can't possibly train it.
On June 4 . . . still won't have it. Doesn't get the gift that you are getting - a brand new skill - and it is a gift, as you did not train all four racial battlecruisers up to V. that would take months that you did_not_spend training.
However, you get the equivilant of three free racial skills - while OP is faced with months of additional training (that you did not have to do) in order to match your variety of battlecruisers.
Hence, the need for free SPs to allocate at will.
|
|
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
98
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 21:57:00 -
[181] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:Really. You invested "months" in training for Amarr Battlecruiser, Caldari Battlecruiser, Gallente Battlecruiser, and Minmatar Battlecruiser? Yes, he (and many others) invested time in the ability to fly all four races' battlecruisers. Why should others be given tons of new abilities just because he retains his?
You can't be that *snip*
if it took you months to train three medium weapons skills up and heavy missles, you probably need to not be on a remap where you refused to allocate any skill points . . . .try making a real argument instead of honestly terrible ones.
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Khalkotauroi Defence Labs
8069
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 21:58:00 -
[182] - Quote
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote: Really. You invested "months" in training for Amarr Battlecruiser, Caldari Battlecruiser, Gallente Battlecruiser, and Minmatar Battlecruiser?
Quick question - where did you buy the skillbooks?
Love the "marxist utopia" bit though, makes you seem very . . . yeah.
From scratch, with a remap and no implants the skill queue required to train Destroyers V and Battlecruisers V, including the prerequisites is circa 50 days, that gets you into the bare hulls, you then have to train the required shield and armor skills, the weapons skills, drones and many of the core skills to make those ships viable so yes I have invested several months to be able to use those ships effectively. A war hasn't been fought this badly since Olaf the Hairy, High Chief of all the Vikings, accidentally ordered 80,000 battle helmets with the horns on the inside. |
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
98
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 22:01:00 -
[183] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:Hello new pilot, welcome to New Eden!
Here is a Noobship since you do not have the skill to fly the frigate of your race, here is a civilian gun becasue you do no have the skills to use a real one yet.
We are sorry about the lack of skills we have not given you from the get go. To keep you in pace with the rest of New Eden, We have given you all 4 racial destroyer skills at level 5 ...and all 4 racial Battlecruiser skills at level 5. We did this because 2 people on the forums deemed it was fair and did not wish to train the necessary prereqs like everyone else.
Please enjoy flying a brutix with 6 civilian electron blasters on it...and nothing else becasue you cant fit anything yet.
Please enjoy the completely even footing we have provided you. Also, please upgrade your clone, as your Alpha clone cannot retain all the free skillpoints we have given you. We would hate for you to undock and engage in a competely "fair" fight and lose all your free SP.
We hope you have a great experience in Eve!
CCP.
CCP,
Thanks! Without remapping it only takes me around 3 days to get a given weapon's system to IV (and the support skills work for all but those darn Caldari missile boats!). You just saved me a TON of training time (just like everyone else!)
And thanks for the heads up on my clone! I'll be sure to pay the nominal cost and update before taking my Minmatar BC (or maybe I'll use an Amarr one?) out on a roam through low-sec.
You guys RULE!
-New Pilot.
|
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
98
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 22:01:00 -
[184] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote: Really. You invested "months" in training for Amarr Battlecruiser, Caldari Battlecruiser, Gallente Battlecruiser, and Minmatar Battlecruiser?
Quick question - where did you buy the skillbooks?
Love the "marxist utopia" bit though, makes you seem very . . . yeah.
From scratch, with a remap and no implants the skill queue required to train Destroyers V and Battlecruisers V, including the prerequisites is circa 50 days, that gets you into the bare hulls, you then have to train the required shield and armor skills, the weapons skills, drones and many of the core skills to make those ships viable so yes I have invested several months to be able to use those ships effectively.
Are you getting additional skills from CCP for training Engineering V? Mechanics V?
didn't think so. shoo, your arguments are bad and you should feel bad for making them.
|
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
200
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 22:03:00 -
[185] - Quote
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote: On June 4, you will have it - despite having never trained it. As a result, you will be able to fly 3 Amarr battlecruiser-class ships.
You also don't have Caldari Battlecruiser V right now. You don't have it, you can't train for it.
On June 4, you will have it - despite having never trained it. As a result, you will be able to fly 3 Caldari battlecruiser-class ships.
OP does not have Amarr Battlecruiser V trained right now. She doesn't have it, she can't possibly train it.
On June 4 . . . still won't have it. Doesn't get the gift that you are getting - a brand new skill - and it is a gift, as you did not train all four racial battlecruisers up to V. that would take months that you did_not_spend training.
However, you get the equivilant of three free racial skills - while OP is faced with months of additional training (that you did not have to do) in order to match your variety of battlecruisers.
Hence, the need for free SPs to allocate at will.
I decided not to train up two of my racial cruiser skills to level 3 so I won't benefit fully either, I demand free SP also! *sarcasm*
And what about the months of additional training that older players spent on training the Mining Barge when new players don't have to train it now. If CCP aren't reimbursing that then they certainly shouldn't be reimbursing every noob still flying their civilian gatling gunned reaper with the full suite of every battlecruiser skill trained to level V. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Khalkotauroi Defence Labs
8069
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 22:05:00 -
[186] - Quote
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:
Are you getting additional skills from CCP for training Engineering V? Mechanics V?
didn't think so. shoo, your arguments are bad and you should feel bad for making them.
Your point is moot, the engineering and mechanics skills aren't changing, although I would consider both of those skills to be unofficial prerequisites for any ship bigger than a cruiser.
A war hasn't been fought this badly since Olaf the Hairy, High Chief of all the Vikings, accidentally ordered 80,000 battle helmets with the horns on the inside. |
Myriad Blaze
44
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 22:13:00 -
[187] - Quote
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote: On June 4, you will have it - despite having never trained it. As a result, you will be able to fly 3 Amarr battlecruiser-class ships.
You also don't have Caldari Battlecruiser V right now. You don't have it, you can't train for it.
On June 4, you will have it - despite having never trained it. As a result, you will be able to fly 3 Caldari battlecruiser-class ships.
OP does not have Amarr Battlecruiser V trained right now. She doesn't have it, she can't possibly train it.
On June 4 . . . still won't have it. Doesn't get the gift that you are getting - a brand new skill - and it is a gift, as you did not train all four racial battlecruisers up to V. that would take months that you did_not_spend training.
However, you get the equivilant of three free racial skills - while OP is faced with months of additional training (that you did not have to do) in order to match your variety of battlecruisers.
Hence, the need for free SPs to allocate at will.
Errr... no?
I have trained Destroyer and Battlecruiser to V and I also trained racial cruisers to 4 (only 3 is needed) so I can fly all racial battlecruisers at the moment. And after the patch I can still fly all racial battlecruisers at the exact same skill level - so I get nothing really. Actually you could argue that I am punished, because I now need to invest in a more expensive clone.
Let me rephrase that to be very clear: after the patch I can do exactly the SAME than before the patch. I get NOTHING what I didn't have before. The additional SP are needed so I can still fly what I can fly now.
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Khalkotauroi Defence Labs
8070
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 22:13:00 -
[188] - Quote
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:I'm a hypocritical troll and everybody else should feel bad because of it You should feel bad for being both a hypocrite, and a troll.
A war hasn't been fought this badly since Olaf the Hairy, High Chief of all the Vikings, accidentally ordered 80,000 battle helmets with the horns on the inside. |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1405
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 22:13:00 -
[189] - Quote
The OP stepped in with eyes wide-open, and uncorked a horrible idea, then defended it horribly. Along the way, the OP found a fellow traveller, who also doesn't seem particularly good.
I'm still standing. Come back again, BSMD, when you've got a better grasp of what the June 4 implementation actually means. Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
200
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 22:15:00 -
[190] - Quote
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote: Wish some of the more prevalent forum trolls would find better hobbies though
Thats kind of rich coming from someone who just freely admitted to trolling and even compared it to a days work. You are very confused indeed.
Somehow I don't think you were trolling though and just used it as an easy get out when you realised how bad your arguments were. At least you realised it in the end so have to give you some credit for listening to the voices of reason on this forum.
|
|
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
72
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 22:21:00 -
[191] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:You also don't have Caldari Battlecruiser V right now. You don't have it, you can't train for it.
On June 4, you will have it - despite having never trained it. As a result, you will be able to fly 3 Caldari battlecruiser-class ships.
Are you trolling or really this stupid? Either this is a clever troll, or you really are stupid. I couldn't be bothered to investigate, but just a hunch
Suddenly OP stopped posting and there is a new NPC alt spam posting in the thread, equally upset and just as confused as the OP.
Coincidence? Or Alt? |
Nathalie LaPorte
Republic University Minmatar Republic
118
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 22:26:00 -
[192] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Nathalie LaPorte wrote:Technically her argument isn't a non sequitur, but more of a self-defeating oxymoron. No, it's a non sequitur. He's suggesting that I should have quit playing under the old system just because the new one is better.
What? To manipulate what he/she said to fit the non sequitur categorization, you're twisting his/her words to accuse you of being able to tell the future but acting as if you couldn't? Crazy.
Quote:He's assuming that just because there is an improvement, the old one was horrible, which does not follow.
With the added assumption which he is clearly making that the current one is horrible, that actually does follow. Sorry, you're wrong.
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silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1406
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 22:26:00 -
[193] - Quote
Georgina Parmala wrote:Rebecha Pucontis wrote:Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:You also don't have Caldari Battlecruiser V right now. You don't have it, you can't train for it.
On June 4, you will have it - despite having never trained it. As a result, you will be able to fly 3 Caldari battlecruiser-class ships.
Are you trolling or really this stupid? Either this is a clever troll, or you really are stupid. I couldn't be bothered to investigate, but just a hunch Suddenly OP stopped posting and there is a new NPC alt spam posting in the thread, equally upset and just as confused as the OP. Coincidence? Or Alt? Something inconvenient might have happened.
edit: Oh, and the OP (plus Fellow Traveler) seem inordinately fixated on SP - As if SP really meant anything. I suspect that's their (his?) main probnlem - that he/they don't get that SP are irrelevent, save as a marker of how close you are towards getting the next skill level. Skill levels themselves are only somewhat relevent, in as much as they determine what you fly, and how well.
I'd guess that the OP keeps score by SP, despite it being rather irrelevent. Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
3279
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 22:27:00 -
[194] - Quote
silens vesica wrote:Something inconvenient might have happened.
The truth can be like that sometimes. Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Baggo Hammers
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
13
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 22:28:00 -
[195] - Quote
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:Alright, work day is done, I want to thank all of you for playing. Most of you are . . . pretty bad.
I think OP's idea is terrible, but part of the problem was that it was presented pretty poorly. I did my part to raise OPs argument in a "better" way (there's really no good way to put "gimmegimmeGIMME!" but I tried). Long story short - handing out SPs is a terrible idea, but playing devil's advocate is fun.
Doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of you ARE bad, and should FEEL bad for BEING bad. OP didn't deserve the poorly reasoned, illogically, crappily-analogized garbage that was posted. There are very good reasons not to just start handing out SP - few of you even managed to get that far. And from what I can see, no one took the very simple step of, at a minimum, at least pretending to see where OP was coming from (it is a legitimate gripe, just one without a good solution).
And I guess, FWIW, I wouldn't cry if CCP did provide everyone with BC VI/Dessie IV as a sort of "hey, there you go, lets all move forward together" (I did already finish my training before the new year, back when I thought the change was going live pre-Retribution). But likewise, I have no qualms at all with things staying exactly like CCP said they would for MONTHS.
And in fact, it's gotten better. No more of that "rationale integer" garbage - partial training is getting spread out too. All in all, CCP is handling this pretty well.
Wish some of the more prevalent forum trolls would find better hobbies though. Especially with the god-awful analogies and deliberately failing to address basic arguments. Oh well - keep shining on, you crazy diamonds!
You are one amazing cat! Too bad all us Philistines can't grasp your deep thoughts. Clerks rule!
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Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics K162
1687
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 22:29:00 -
[196] - Quote
These changes have been known about and announced for something like 6-8 months. Even if you started a char on the day it was first talked about you could EASILY have BC and Dessie 5 by now. |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
200
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 22:33:00 -
[197] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:These changes have been known about and announced for something like 6-8 months. Even if you started a char on the day it was first talked about you could EASILY have BC and Dessie 5 by now.
The funny thing is, even if you started a character right now you could max them all out in time for the expansion with the right remap. But the OP would rather whinge on here instead. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13777
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 22:34:00 -
[198] - Quote
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:What? Me: GÇ£you're already getting a much more optimise skill tree, so you have nothing to complain aboutGÇ¥ Him: GÇ£If the skill tree was so bad, then y did u play it then at that time? U should have left then.GÇ¥ Me: GÇ£Non sequitur.GÇ¥
Quote:To manipulate what he/she said to fit the non sequitur categorization, you're twisting his/her words to accuse you of being able to tell the future but acting as if you couldn't? Eh, no. I'm converting his GÇ£you should have leftGÇ¥ into an analogy about bacon and eggs to demonstrate that, no, just because there is improvement doesn't mean that it was bad before; that you can improve from GÇ£goodGÇ¥ to GÇ£betterGÇ¥.
Quote:With the added assumption which he is clearly making that the current one is horrible, that actually does follow. GǪexcept that it's about what I thought, and no mention was made about it being bad GÇö it was just something he dreamt up as a non sequitur of my saing that it's getting improved.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics K162
1687
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 22:34:00 -
[199] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:Jack Miton wrote:These changes have been known about and announced for something like 6-8 months. Even if you started a char on the day it was first talked about you could EASILY have BC and Dessie 5 by now. The funny thing is, even if you started a character right now you could max them all out in time for the expansion with the right remap. But the OP would rather whinge on here instead. well sure, but that's some pretty epic power leveling :P |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
3280
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 22:37:00 -
[200] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:Rebecha Pucontis wrote:Jack Miton wrote:These changes have been known about and announced for something like 6-8 months. Even if you started a char on the day it was first talked about you could EASILY have BC and Dessie 5 by now. The funny thing is, even if you started a character right now you could max them all out in time for the expansion with the right remap. But the OP would rather whinge on here instead. well sure, but that's some pretty epic power leveling :P
Getting Desi to 5 and BC to 4 would still net 4 level 5 desi skills and 4 level 4 BC skills, so even that is not training time wasted. Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13780
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 22:40:00 -
[201] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:Rebecha Pucontis wrote:Jack Miton wrote:These changes have been known about and announced for something like 6-8 months. Even if you started a char on the day it was first talked about you could EASILY have BC and Dessie 5 by now. The funny thing is, even if you started a character right now you could max them all out in time for the expansion with the right remap. But the OP would rather whinge on here instead. well sure, but that's some pretty epic power leveling sitting-around :P Fixed.
We're talking about (2+6) ranks +ù 256k SP = 2M SP, which can be brushed off in 33 days at 2520 SP/h.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Nathalie LaPorte
Republic University Minmatar Republic
118
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 22:46:00 -
[202] - Quote
Tippia wrote: GǪexcept that it's about what I thought, and no mention was made about it being bad
...except that he didn't use the word "thought", but he did use the word "bad", in the 4 sentence excerpt under discussion.
"If the skill tree was so bad, then y did u play it then at that time? U should have left then. But u stayed. Why do u use it as a point now then?" |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13780
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 22:50:00 -
[203] - Quote
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:...except that he didn't use the word "thought", but he did use the word "bad", in the 4 sentence excerpt under discussion. GǪand it's still my view of the skill tree that was in question GÇö i.e. what I thought about it.
Not that it matters, the non-sequitur is the same: GÇ£improvementGÇ¥ does not mean that it was bad before. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1406
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 22:57:00 -
[204] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Nathalie LaPorte wrote:...except that he didn't use the word "thought", but he did use the word "bad", in the 4 sentence excerpt under discussion. GǪand it's still my view of the skill tree that was in question GÇö i.e. what I thought about it. Not that it matters, the non-sequitur is the same: GÇ£improvementGÇ¥ does not mean that it was bad before. "New and Improved" only means that the previous version was "Old and Inferior" in comparison to the updated version - This is not an absolute scale, but a relative one. Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
Jenahl
Brave Newbies Inc.
25
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 22:57:00 -
[205] - Quote
I dont know what the big deal is. Everything was outlined in a Dev Blog in regards to this change. The Dev even let us know how to get all them free skillpoints! I guess no matter how much advance warning you give people, there are always those who live under a rock. |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
3281
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 23:01:00 -
[206] - Quote
Jenahl wrote:I dont know what the big deal is. Everything was outlined in a Dev Blog in regards to this change. The Dev even let us know how to get all them free skillpoints! I guess no matter how much advance warning you give people, there are always those who live under a rock.
You can put it on all the splashscreens on the login page, you can make all the Devblogs you want, you can even have it written in the nebulas themselves, the fact is there will ALWAYS be at least 1 who will complain that they werent given enough notice..or any notice at all for that matter. It is the nature of things. Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1406
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 23:02:00 -
[207] - Quote
Jenahl wrote:I dont know what the big deal is. Everything was outlined in a Dev Blog in regards to this change. The Dev even let us know how to get all them free skillpoints! I guess no matter how much advance warning you give people, there are always those who live under a rock. Typically around 10%, in my experience. That was the number I planned for in the Service, and I was rarely far wrong..
Old military axiom: "It doesn't matter how clear the order was, some moron will fail to understand it, and will often get it entirely backwayrds."
General Clarke used to say: "Write orders not so they can be understood, but so they can't be mis-understood." Smart man. Still couldn't get rid of the 10%. Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
Nathalie LaPorte
Republic University Minmatar Republic
119
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 23:04:00 -
[208] - Quote
Tippia wrote: Not that it matters, the non-sequitur is the same: GÇ£improvementGÇ¥ does not mean that it was bad before.
This is simple logic. A non sequitur is an argument that does not follow from the premises. From the premises: ' It was bad after', and 'it's improved', the conclusion : 'it was bad before' does indeed follow. if you want to make an argument that those weren't his premises, fine, go for it--but simply saying "it was about me, not him" isn't a valid argument,; if he makes a non sequitur, it's contained in his premises and his conclusions, not yours. To spend the entire thread saying that he can't understand what you are saying, and then decide in this one instance that he's adopted your premises word-for-word, is untenable.
If you agree that those were his premises, then it's not a non sequitur. QED.
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silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1406
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 23:07:00 -
[209] - Quote
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:Tippia wrote: Not that it matters, the non-sequitur is the same: GÇ£improvementGÇ¥ does not mean that it was bad before.
This is simple logic. A non sequitur is an argument that does not follow from the premises. From the premises: ' It was bad after', and 'it's improved', the conclusion : 'it was bad before' does indeed follow. No.
It is axiomatic that no matter how good a thing may be, it can always be better. (The converse is also true. Name me a bad condition, I will make it worse). So to declare a previous version of an improved condition to be 'bad,' you must have a referent. Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13780
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 23:08:00 -
[210] - Quote
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:This is simple logic. A non sequitur is an argument that does not follow from the premises. From the premises: ' It was bad after' GǪwhich wasn't a premise to begin with. That it was bad before was a conclusion he reached based on the premise GÇ£it's improvedGÇ¥ GÇö a conclusion that does not follow. He then used this conclusion as the premise for another conclusion: that I should have quitGǪ but the first conclusion is still a non sequitur, so that conclusion second falls.
Quote:simply saying "it was about me, not him" isn't a valid argument Sure it is. It explains why you're getting your premises mixed up. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Khalkotauroi Defence Labs
8072
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 23:13:00 -
[211] - Quote
Jenahl wrote:I dont know what the big deal is. Everything was outlined in a Dev Blog in regards to this change. The Dev even let us know how to get all them free skillpoints! I guess no matter how much advance warning you give people, there are always those who live under a rock. CCP can't patch dumb, lazy or stupid.
A war hasn't been fought this badly since Olaf the Hairy, High Chief of all the Vikings, accidentally ordered 80,000 battle helmets with the horns on the inside. |
Anne Dieu-le-veut
State War Academy Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 23:21:00 -
[212] - Quote
OP, your character was created a week before me. I will have all necessary skills trained to take advantage of the BC/Destroyer 5 changes with about 16 days to spare, and I trained enough before embarking on that skill plan that I'm not a total gimp in the mean time. I can even fly mining barges if I wanted to. Your lack of planning does not constitute unfairness on CCP's part.
TL, DR version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLdBrx-ijwQ |
EvEa Deva
State War Academy Caldari State
252
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 23:22:00 -
[213] - Quote
I think if you started now you could train the skills needed before the expansion/patch |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1409
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 23:23:00 -
[214] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Jenahl wrote:I dont know what the big deal is. Everything was outlined in a Dev Blog in regards to this change. The Dev even let us know how to get all them free skillpoints! I guess no matter how much advance warning you give people, there are always those who live under a rock. CCP can't patch dumb, lazy or stupid. That's what NCOs are for. Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13783
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 23:26:00 -
[215] - Quote
silens vesica wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:CCP can't patch dumb, lazy or stupid. That's what NCOs are for. I don't think that really qualifies as GÇ£patchingGÇ¥. To me, GÇ£patchingGÇ¥ suggests the bug is being removed. NCOs are more like adding exception handling routines to make the bug not cause a complete crashGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Jonah Gravenstein
Khalkotauroi Defence Labs
8075
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 23:26:00 -
[216] - Quote
silens vesica wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Jenahl wrote:I dont know what the big deal is. Everything was outlined in a Dev Blog in regards to this change. The Dev even let us know how to get all them free skillpoints! I guess no matter how much advance warning you give people, there are always those who live under a rock. CCP can't patch dumb, lazy or stupid. That's what NCOs are for. Sergeants and their Airforce/Navy equivalents and the cooks are the backbone of the military, officers are there to learn from them.
A war hasn't been fought this badly since Olaf the Hairy, High Chief of all the Vikings, accidentally ordered 80,000 battle helmets with the horns on the inside. |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1410
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 23:33:00 -
[217] - Quote
Tippia wrote:silens vesica wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:CCP can't patch dumb, lazy or stupid. That's what NCOs are for. I don't think that really qualifies as GǣpatchingGǥ. To me, GǣpatchingGǥ suggests the bug is being removed. NCOs are more like adding exception handling routines to make the bug not cause a complete crashGǪ Fair point. Though I will have to say, a bit of wall-to-wall counselling often removes the error condition entirely, which is as good as a patch under any circumstances.
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Sergeants and their Airforce/Navy equivalents and the cooks are the backbone of the military, officers are there to learn from them.
Pretty much true, up to senior O3 or O4 level. By the time they make O4, they can generally be allowed to leave the house on their own.
Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
Nathalie LaPorte
Republic University Minmatar Republic
119
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 23:48:00 -
[218] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Nathalie LaPorte wrote:This is simple logic. A non sequitur is an argument that does not follow from the premises. From the premises: ' It was bad after' GǪwhich wasn't a premise to begin with.
Let's examine the OP's statements on that issue:
"It gives unfair advantage to older players and players who already have Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V over newer player."
"But y I am punished for that?"
"Do u understand that if we (noobs) leave this game there will be noone to sell your crap to and noone shoot in low sec at?"
"But I see that I'm put into disadvantageous position over older players by CCP change (concerning combat ships) and I don't like."
" The only reason I expected criticism is that I already know that EVE society is corrupted."
"I see how bad EVE society because I played many games and read many forums. "
Based on the fact that the OP is complaining on the forums about the skill tree after, saying that it's "unfair", a "punish[ment]", making her think of quittin the game, putting her into a "disadvantageous position", and fostering a "corrupt" and "bad" Eve society, I have evaluated her premise to be that "The current EVE skill tree situation is bad".
Apparently you disagree, and think that the OP believes that the current EVE skill tree situation is good. On what do you base that conclusion? |
Anne Dieu-le-veut
State War Academy Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 23:54:00 -
[219] - Quote
EvEa Deva wrote:I think if you started now you could train the skills needed before the expansion/patch
According to EVE Mon, it would take a brand new character:
60 days 6 hrs 55 min 32 seconds for the required training with *no* implants (finishing June 23rd) , and 52 days 10 hrs 33 min 30 sec with all +3 implants (including adding Cybernetics 1), finishing on June 15th...so not quite.
However, OP isn't a brand new character, so this is moot. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13784
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 00:02:00 -
[220] - Quote
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:Let's examine the OP's statements on that issue: No, let's examine the actual line of argumentation instead, since that's all that matters. Again:
Me: GÇ£you're already getting a much more optimise skill tree, so you have nothing to complain aboutGÇ¥ Him: GÇ£If the skill tree was so bad, then y did u play it then at that time? U should have left then.GÇ¥ Me: GÇ£Non sequitur.GÇ¥
He is asking me GÇ£why did I playGÇ¥ at the time GÇ£if the skill tree was so badGÇ¥. It's a question that hinges on a conditional that hinges on my saying that it has been improved. The conditional is about a subjective matter and it relates to my situation. It's my view and my choice that matters GÇö not his GÇö and he makes it so by asking why I acted the way I did. His view is irrelevant because what he thought does not matter one whit for my choice to play back then. So let's rewrite those:
Me: GÇ£You're getting a much more optimise skill tree, so you are getting something out of this change to GÇ£compensateGÇ¥ for the fact that older players retain their pre-existing abilities.GÇ¥ Him: GÇ£Why did you play it at the time if you thought the skill tree was so bad?GÇ¥ Me: GÇ£Your question is nonsensical because I never said I thought the skill tree was bad GÇö just that it will be improved. I played at the time because it was good. Now it will be even better, but I'm past the point where this will matter to me.GÇ¥
Quote:Apparently you disagree, and think that the OP believes that the current EVE skill tree situation is good. No. I think that I believe the current skill tree situation is good, and I'm pointing out that the he is making a nonsensical question that relies on a conclusion that does not follow from my saying that the skill tree is being improved.
So no. The premise was never that it was bad after GÇö only that it is getting improved. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
|
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4060
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 00:12:00 -
[221] - Quote
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:Alright, work day is done, I want to thank all of you for playing. Most of you are . . . pretty bad.
I think OP's idea is terrible, but part of the problem was that it was presented pretty poorly. I did my part to raise OPs argument in a "better" way (there's really no good way to put "gimmegimmeGIMME!" but I tried). Long story short - handing out SPs is a terrible idea, but playing devil's advocate is fun.
Doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of you ARE bad, and should FEEL bad for BEING bad. OP didn't deserve the poorly reasoned, illogically, crappily-analogized garbage that was posted. There are very good reasons not to just start handing out SP - few of you even managed to get that far. And from what I can see, no one took the very simple step of, at a minimum, at least pretending to see where OP was coming from (it is a legitimate gripe, just one without a good solution).
And I guess, FWIW, I wouldn't cry if CCP did provide everyone with BC VI/Dessie IV as a sort of "hey, there you go, lets all move forward together" (I did already finish my training before the new year, back when I thought the change was going live pre-Retribution). But likewise, I have no qualms at all with things staying exactly like CCP said they would for MONTHS.
And in fact, it's gotten better. No more of that "rationale integer" garbage - partial training is getting spread out too. All in all, CCP is handling this pretty well.
Wish some of the more prevalent forum trolls would find better hobbies though. Especially with the god-awful analogies and deliberately failing to address basic arguments. Oh well - keep shining on, you crazy diamonds! Dang it! I missed amateur hour.
I could have had some fun with this one. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1410
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 00:15:00 -
[222] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Dang it! I missed amateur hour. I could have had some fun with this one. A lot of the really good stuff vanished with the house-cleaning. *shrug* Some epic troll-bait blown away, but that's how it goes sometimes. Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
Nathalie LaPorte
Republic University Minmatar Republic
119
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 00:15:00 -
[223] - Quote
Tippia wrote:No, let's examine the actual line of argumentation instead, since that's all that matters.
You don't seem to be aware of this, but supplying quotes from the OP is much more 'actual' than any paraphrase you supply.
Tippia wrote:No. I think that I believe the current skill tree situation is good, and I'm pointing out that the he is making a nonsensical question that relies on a conclusion that does not follow from my saying that the skill tree is being improved.
It doesn't matter what you think you believe, that isn't part of the formal definition of a non sequitur. Just like the OP left key parts of his argument in an implied form, you're leaving a key part of your argument in an implied form: you've never formally referenced or worked with the definition of non sequitur. This is causing you problems, as a similar assumption did the OP; since these assumptions left nonspecific are common sources of error.
Non sequitur: a fallacy resulting from a simple conversion of a universal affirmative proposition or from the transposition of a condition and its consequent "
If you'd tried (and inevitably failed) to convert your twisted logic above to fit this simple definition, you would have realized your error hours ago.
|
dark heartt
I Own Four Sheep The Methodical Alliance
134
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 00:17:00 -
[224] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Angelique Duchemin wrote:Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Hi everyone. Probably my post will bring a lot of criticism but I want to make a point. Due to ship skills revamp people who train Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V are going to get around 6mil SP. That is fine. But players who dont do that will get nothing.
I propose that players who decided not to train the mentioned skill get partial recompensation (say 30% of the max possible skills). For example, if someone gets zero additional SP from summer expansion he qualifies for 6x0.3 = 2m free SP to allocate. If the player gets 2m SP from summer expansion he qualifies for (6-2)x0.3 = 1,3m free SP to allocate etc.
Some of u will object because we all knew that in advance and could train Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V. BUT while for older players 20-30 days of training is nothing newer players cant afford to spend so much time on 1-2 skills. It gives unfair advantage to older players and players who already have Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V over newer player.
That's why I propose recompensation. It's not free SP. They can fly the same ships as they could before except now their clones cost more. But y I am punished for that? Y I have to spend 4x times more than they? Because I am younger? Newer players already heavily disadvantaged
You are in RvB. You should know that new players aren't disadvantaged as anyone can succeed in Eve.
As far as the SP goes the ONLY time that CCP gives free SP is when they delete a skill (like the learning skills) or the servers go down for longer than normal. That's it. If you can fly it before you can fly it now. If you can't then tough.
The fact is that you will now have an easier train than anyone older. |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
3283
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 00:19:00 -
[225] - Quote
silens vesica wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Dang it! I missed amateur hour. I could have had some fun with this one. A lot of the really good stuff vanished with the house-cleaning. *shrug* Some epic troll-bait blown away, but that's how it goes sometimes.
Some of my best work lines the wastebasket of CCP Eterne. ::sigh:: Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13785
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 00:22:00 -
[226] - Quote
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:You don't seem to be aware of this, but supplying quotes from the OP is much more 'actual' than any paraphrase you supply. GǪwhich is why I'm supplying quotes from the poster in question. You don't seem to be aware of this.
Quote:It doesn't matter what you think you believe, that isn't part of the formal definition of a non sequitur. GǪand the formal definition of a non sequitur means that he can't interject unrelated information and that his conclusion that it was bad before does not follow from the single premise that it has been improved.
He is asking about my actions, as directed by the one premise I provide. His conclusion that I should have acted differently is a non sequitur since it relies on a premise I did not provide, in a situation where I must provide it. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Frying Doom
2402
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 00:36:00 -
[227] - Quote
How did this thread ever get past the phrase 'get bent'
I mean wanting SP because you failed to train something.
I am not trained to pilot a titan yet, can I have the SP for that on all of my characters Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Nathalie LaPorte
Republic University Minmatar Republic
119
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 00:37:00 -
[228] - Quote
Tippia wrote: He is asking about my actions, as directed by the one premise I provide. His conclusion that I should have acted differently is a non sequitur since it relies on a premise I did not provide, in a situation where I must provide it.
No, your provision of premises is 100% irrelevant. A syllogism is a collection of premises leading to a conclusion. A faulty syllogism is one where the conclusion is not proven. A logical fallacy is where someone states that a group of premises leads to a conclusion. If the OP is committing a logical fallacy, then all the premises need to be put forth by the OP, not some from the OP and some from you. since you're talking about your premises and her premises mixed together, you are not using the formal definitions correctly, and so what you're saying simply doesn't matter. We seem to be stuck at this point, your last two posts are basically identical; so unless you can say something new and correct, I'm going to have to conclude that you aren't able to grasp the correct definitions and stop explaining your errors to you. If your premises are those under discussion, then the only person who can possibly commit a non sequitur, using the above formal definition, is you.
Tippia wrote:Oh, and if it doesn't matter what I think people believe, why did you bring it up?.
I never said that. Twisting words dishonestly again. i said your thoughts about what you believe aren't relevant to whether someone else committed a non sequitur. 'you' =/= 'people'.
|
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1412
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 00:47:00 -
[229] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:How did this thread ever get past the phrase 'get bent' I mean wanting SP because you failed to train something. I am not trained to pilot a titan yet, can I have the SP for that on all of my characters We got hooked by a very capable troll, it appears. Or a really remarkable case of 'densum aeternum.' Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13787
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 01:19:00 -
[230] - Quote
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:No, your provision of premises is 100% irrelevant. Eh, no. Again, he's asking about my action GÇö my premises matter a whole lot, since those are the ones he's mistreating.
Quote:A syllogism is a collection of premises leading to a conclusion. A faulty syllogism is one where the conclusion is not proven. A logical fallacy is where someone states that a group of premises leads to a conclusion but the two are somehow disconnected. Fixed. In this case: skill tree will be improved (my premise) GåÆ I thought the skill tree was bad (his conclusion).
This is fallacious in a number of ways. There is no connection between the relative change of GÇ£improvementGÇ¥ that leads to an absolute state of GÇ£goodGÇ¥ (or GÇ£badGÇ¥); there is no connection between my premise (the skill tree will be improved) and his opinion on the past or current state of the same; and there is no connection between his opinion and mine. In short, it's a fallacy because the syllogism that one would expect when turning a bunch of premises into a conclusion doesn't exist.
Quote:If the OP is committing a logical fallacy, then all the premises need to be put forth by the OP GǪor he can take my premise, add one of his own, and then try to assign his conclusion to my thinking. In this case: me saying that the skill tree will be improved + him saying it is/was bad GåÆ me saying it was bad.
Quote:We seem to be stuck at this point, your last two posts are basically identical; so unless you can say something new and correct, I'm going to have to conclude that you aren't able to grasp the correct definitions and stop explaining your errors to you. Since they've both been correct, and you haven't been able to argue the case at hand, I'm going to keep explaining to you that no, his conclusion does not follow from my premise and is, in fact, a non sequitur (you know GÇö the logical error where the conclusion does not follow the premise(s) given?).
GǪin fact, at this point, I'd rather like to know the source of your (truncated and incomplete) Gǣformal definitionGǥ, since there's more to non sequiturs than what you're describing.
Uh-huhGǪGÇ£Apparently you disagree, and think that the OP believes that the current EVE skill tree situation is good.GÇ¥ So yeah, you brought up what I think people believeGǪ but apparently, it doesn't matter all of a sudden. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
|
Chokichi Ozuwara
Sons Of Alexander AL3XAND3R.
498
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 01:25:00 -
[231] - Quote
I have not been following this thread at all, but Tiippia is right. Because he's smart and makes good posts and his avatar is super hot. Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round. |
Frying Doom
2402
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 01:30:00 -
[232] - Quote
silens vesica wrote:Frying Doom wrote:How did this thread ever get past the phrase 'get bent' I mean wanting SP because you failed to train something. I am not trained to pilot a titan yet, can I have the SP for that on all of my characters We got hooked by a very capable troll, it appears. Or a really remarkable case of ' densum aeternum.' Well I maybe forever dense but if that is the case I would hate to see the description of someone who believes, they should get SP for not doing something.
This is a similar argument to those who believe they should be reimbursed for CCP not warning them about Burn Jita II.
It is really not that hard to look at these forums for 15 minutes a week. If people choose not to know what is going on, you can hardly, rationally complain about the choice, to be deaf, dumb and blind. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1414
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 01:37:00 -
[233] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:silens vesica wrote:Frying Doom wrote:How did this thread ever get past the phrase 'get bent' I mean wanting SP because you failed to train something. I am not trained to pilot a titan yet, can I have the SP for that on all of my characters We got hooked by a very capable troll, it appears. Or a really remarkable case of ' densum aeternum.' Well I maybe forever dense but if that is the case I would hate to see the description of someone who believes, they should get SP for not doing something. Naaah. You might be dense (so might I be!), but in no manner as dense as the OP, whom absolutely qualifies for the 'eternal' modifier.
Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
ShenanigansBus
The Operation
34
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 01:56:00 -
[234] - Quote
I'm 50/50 on whether or not this is a troll thread but just in case:
Train all frigates to 4, Destroyers to 4, cruisers to 3 and battlecruisers to 4... Then when the expansion comes you have all racial bc to 4 and destroyers too.
This will take you two weeks tops. There is more than enough time to train Battlecruisers 5. A lot of people have put off training other skills to make sure to have it in time, I suggest you do the same as the reward for doing so will save you time down the road.
If the idea of older players having an advantage seems to be unfair, you should probably reconsider what you're getting into. |
No No Alignout
Ferox Industries
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 01:59:00 -
[235] - Quote
Someone should appologise for this. To my employer if nothing else. I got paid to read this, well... paid while I read this. Doubtless CCP will punish me and add Destroyer V to my skill set Chur |
Aston Martin DB5
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
15
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 02:03:00 -
[236] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Hi everyone. Probably my post will bring a lot of criticism but I want to make a point. Due to ship skills revamp people who train Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V are going to get around 6mil SP. That is fine. But players who dont do that will get nothing.
I propose that players who decided not to train the mentioned skill get partial recompensation (say 30% of the max possible skills). For example, if someone gets zero additional SP from summer expansion he qualifies for 6x0.3 = 2m free SP to allocate. If the player gets 2m SP from summer expansion he qualifies for (6-2)x0.3 = 1,3m free SP to allocate etc.
Some of u will object because we all knew that in advance and could train Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V. BUT while for older players 20-30 days of training is nothing newer players cant afford to spend so much time on 1-2 skills. It gives unfair advantage to older players and players who already have Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V over newer player.
That's why I propose recompensation.
To make it fair, ccp shouldn't give players a "full" refund on sp but only a fraction.
|
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1415
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 02:09:00 -
[237] - Quote
Aston Martin DB5 wrote:Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Hi everyone. Probably my post will bring a lot of criticism but I want to make a point. Due to ship skills revamp people who train Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V are going to get around 6mil SP. That is fine. But players who dont do that will get nothing.
I propose that players who decided not to train the mentioned skill get partial recompensation (say 30% of the max possible skills). For example, if someone gets zero additional SP from summer expansion he qualifies for 6x0.3 = 2m free SP to allocate. If the player gets 2m SP from summer expansion he qualifies for (6-2)x0.3 = 1,3m free SP to allocate etc.
Some of u will object because we all knew that in advance and could train Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V. BUT while for older players 20-30 days of training is nothing newer players cant afford to spend so much time on 1-2 skills. It gives unfair advantage to older players and players who already have Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V over newer player.
That's why I propose recompensation. To make it fair, ccp shouldn't give players a "full" refund on sp but only a fraction. There's nothing to 'refund' - except in a very tiny minority of cases. The only thing that's being done is to allow the players to fly later what they can fly now. No new capabilities, no suddent leaps in competitiveness. Just some different labels and numbers, signifying... Nothing new.
status quo ante Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
Nathalie LaPorte
Republic University Minmatar Republic
119
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 02:22:00 -
[238] - Quote
Tippia wrote: Since they've both been correct, and you haven't been able to argue the case at hand, I'm going to keep explaining to you that no, his conclusion does not follow from my premise and is, in fact, a non sequitur (you know GÇö the logical error where the conclusion does not follow the premise(s) given?).
Well, I'm done trying to teach you logic, now I'm just going to emulate you for illustration.
My premises are: 1. The Jovians have escaped from EVE and are taking over the Earth. 2. Television game shows are the only effective weapon we have against Jovians.
Your conclusion quoted above does not follow from my premises, therefore by your own logic, your conclusion is a non sequitur.
/discussion |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13788
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 02:28:00 -
[239] - Quote
silens vesica wrote:There's nothing to 'refund' - except in a very tiny minority of cases. The only thing that's being done is to allow the players to fly later what they can fly now. No new capabilities, no suddent leaps in competitiveness. Just some different labels and numbers, signifying... Nothing new.
status quo ante I have a sneaking suspicion that this, like pretty much all SP whines, is just a classic case of D&D:itis (I'd call it WoW:itis, but it really isn't their fault GÇö they just copied the already obsolete formula because it's simple). The reasoning is that SP = XP, more = higher level, higher level = better, skills = class/level feats, so more of those obviously = better.
GǪforgetting (or, worse, having never learned) the simple fact that none of that is actually true, because the game isn't a class/level-based system and skills don't work that way. Skills are simply a mix between proficiency and usage licensing, and at the end of the day, mechanics-wise at least, the only thing that matters is what you can use and at what proficiency level.
When viewed through a class/level lens, of course it all looks horribly upsetting GÇö more GÇ£XPGÇ¥, more GÇ£featsGÇ¥, of course it must be a great boon to get those. When viewed through the EVE lens, we get what you just described: no added proficiency, no added usage license, so who cares what you get because it will be applied equally to everyone.
The argument that GÇ£onoz, it takes longer to trainGÇ¥ forgets not just the fact that a huge amount of changes are being made in the opposite direction, and that the total SP catalogue of the game is increased by just over 1% by the change, but also the fact that skill changes like this are bound to happen with some frequency. Whenever new skills are included, it'll be the same: new players get more to train to GÇ£catch upGÇ¥ with older ones, and older players can get going with little to no time investment. It's just something that will (and even must) happen as the game grows older and new stuff gets added to give oldtimers something new and interesting to train. Between MJDs, target breakers, reactive hardeners, honeycombing, new players have GÇ£fallen behindGÇ£ in terms of how much new SP they have to accumulate just as much as the BC/dessie changes will.
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:Your conclusion quoted above does not follow from my premises, therefore by your own logic, your conclusion is a non sequitur. And guess what? It is, in the derailment sense.
Now, since you prefer your things formal (for no particularly good reason) how about this one: PGéü: If things are bad, they can be improved. PGéé: The skill tree is getting improved, according to Tippia. C: The skill tree was bad, according to Tippia GåÉ non sequitur.
GǪand I'm being generous here by providing an assumed premise that could possibly connect the otherwise disconnected statements and which is intuitive enough that we can suspect that the OP actually might use it. In reality, PGéü is unstated, so we don't even have a complete syllogism. Either way, the conclusion does not follow form the premise(s). GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1415
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 02:35:00 -
[240] - Quote
Tippia wrote:silens vesica wrote:There's nothing to 'refund' - except in a very tiny minority of cases. The only thing that's being done is to allow the players to fly later what they can fly now. No new capabilities, no suddent leaps in competitiveness. Just some different labels and numbers, signifying... Nothing new.
status quo ante I have a sneaking suspicion that this, like pretty much all SP whines, is just a classic case of D&D:itis (I'd call it WoW:itis, but it really isn't their fault GÇö they just copied the already obsolete formula because it's simple). The reasoning is that SP = XP, more = higher level, higher level = better, skills = class/level feats, so more of those obviously = better. No doubt. I commented on that a few pages back - that it seems the OP and his fellow travellers are hung up on SP as 'winning' somehow.
Never did Like D&D for pretty much that exact reason. I prefered gaming systems that concentrated on 'ability' over 'score.'
Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
|
No No Alignout
Ferox Industries
2
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 02:45:00 -
[241] - Quote
Maybe OP knows something we don't and has already won eve
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Khalkotauroi Defence Labs
8077
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 02:49:00 -
[242] - Quote
No No Alignout wrote:Maybe OP knows something we don't and has already won eve
If the OP had truly won Eve, they'd never log in, and still be able influence large amounts of players. A war hasn't been fought this badly since Olaf the Hairy, High Chief of all the Vikings, accidentally ordered 80,000 battle helmets with the horns on the inside. |
dark heartt
I Own Four Sheep The Methodical Alliance
134
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 02:55:00 -
[243] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:silens vesica wrote:Frying Doom wrote:How did this thread ever get past the phrase 'get bent' I mean wanting SP because you failed to train something. I am not trained to pilot a titan yet, can I have the SP for that on all of my characters We got hooked by a very capable troll, it appears. Or a really remarkable case of ' densum aeternum.' Well I maybe forever dense but if that is the case I would hate to see the description of someone who believes, they should get SP for not doing something. This is a similar argument to those who believe they should be reimbursed for CCP not warning them about Burn Jita II. It is really not that hard to look at these forums for 15 minutes a week. If people choose not to know what is going on, you can hardly, rationally complain about the choice, to be deaf, dumb and blind.
I just agreed with Frying Doom. This chilled me to my core, but that last part is totally relevant to every Eve player. |
Viktor Corgo
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 02:55:00 -
[244] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:I'm getting SP to spend as I wish by training up battlecruiser to level V on one of my alts who has none of the cruiser skills trained to level III. :)
I think this is unfair as it is only available to new players who have no cruiser skills yet and so we should all get free SP as this is inequitable for all my other alts.
A couple pages ago, but... you're not expecting to get 4 (well, 3 extra) times the SP value sunk into BCV free, right?
BCV with no racial cruiser III is being reimbursed just the cost of your BCV skill -- so, enough to buy up one racial BC skill if you like. It's a waste of training time unless you're just capitalizing on a remap for awhile. |
Asmodai Xodai
Legio Geminatus Gentlemen's Agreement
51
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 03:03:00 -
[245] - Quote
The 'failure to plan ahead' counter-argument to OP isn't very good. It can easily be defeated by a player who comes to the game after the change, therefore COULDN'T HAVE failed to plan ahead.
The only counter-argument to OP is that this is simply a reimbursement, nothing more. If something is taken away from you, you must rightly be reimbursed by CCP.
Something is being taken away from us - Battlecruisers V and Destroyers V, which we trained. We must rightly be able to fly these ships in the future if we could fly them in the past. Thus we get racial Battlecruisers V and racial Destroyers V.
You haven't trained BC V or D V, therefore nothing is being taken away from you. You can't fly these ships now. So you shouldn't be able to fly these ships in the future (until you train them).
You are simply asking for free SP, for no good reason.
Those of us affected are receiving SP. But it isn't free - it simply preserves what we already have in terms of piloting ships. In fact, we are actually getting a nerf, because our clone costs are going way up as compared to what they are now. |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1417
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 03:09:00 -
[246] - Quote
Asmodai Xodai wrote:The 'failure to plan ahead' counter-argument to OP isn't very good. It can easily be defeated by a player who comes to the game after the change, therefore COULDN'T HAVE failed to plan ahead. CCP owes nothing to people who arrive after a change. They accept the game as it is, or they don't. End of subject.
Quote:The only counter-argument to OP is that this is simply a reimbursement, nothing more. If something is taken away from you, you must rightly be reimbursed by CCP.
Something is being taken away from us - Battlecruisers V and Destroyers V, which we trained. We must rightly be able to fly these ships in the future if we could fly them in the past. Thus we get racial Battlecruisers V and racial Destroyers V.
You haven't trained BC V or D V, therefore nothing is being taken away from you. You can't fly these ships now. So you shouldn't be able to fly these ships in the future (until you train them).
You are simply asking for free SP, for no good reason.
Those of us affected are receiving SP. But it isn't free - it simply preserves what we already have in terms of piloting ships. In fact, we are actually getting a nerf, because our clone costs are going way up as compared to what they are now. Other than my comment above, spot-on. Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13790
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 03:10:00 -
[247] - Quote
Asmodai Xodai wrote:The 'failure to plan ahead' counter-argument to OP isn't very good. It can easily be defeated by a player who comes to the game after the change, therefore COULDN'T HAVE failed to plan ahead. WeeeellGǪ it works against the OP because he could have (and still can) plan ahead. The new player is a slightly different argument and is much the same situation as any newcomer after a patch when new skills were introduced: they'll have to train for longer to be able to do the same as the older players. As the game grows older, new players will have more and more skills to choose from; they get to start playing the game as-is, same as everyone else when they started.
The only special feature of this particular skill change is that the split between GÇ£oldGÇ¥ and GÇ£newGÇ¥ doesn't happen on patch day, but up to a month before, which is when it starts to become too late to get that extra-payout BC V/Dessie V combo. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Nathalie LaPorte
Republic University Minmatar Republic
119
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 04:04:00 -
[248] - Quote
Tippia wrote: Now, since you prefer your things formal (for no particularly good reason) how about this one: PGéü: If things are bad, they can be improved. PGéé: The skill tree is getting improved, according to Tippia. C: The skill tree was bad, according to Tippia GåÉ non sequitur.
GǪand I'm being generous here by providing an assumed premise that could possibly connect the otherwise disconnected statements and which is intuitive enough that we can suspect that the OP actually might use it. In reality, PGéü is unstated, so we don't even have a complete syllogism. Either way, the conclusion does not follow form the premise(s).
So yes, /discussion indeed GÇö his conditional was a non-sequitur, and his follow-up questions were nonsensical hypotheticals because they hinged on this fallacious assumption. There's really no two ways about it.
I'm sorry, none of that follows from my premises. There's nothing about either Jovians or game shows. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13791
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 04:07:00 -
[249] - Quote
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:I'm sorry, none of that follows from my premises. Good thing that I wasn't talking about them, then. No need to be sorry. Just try harder to grasp the context next time.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Nathalie LaPorte
Republic University Minmatar Republic
119
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 04:11:00 -
[250] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Nathalie LaPorte wrote:I'm sorry, none of that follows from my premises. Good thing that I wasn't talking about them, then. No need to be sorry. Just try harder to grasp the context next time.
I'm sorry, I'm not willing to try harder to grasp your non sequiturs, because they're non sequiturs. |
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13791
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 04:13:00 -
[251] - Quote
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:I'm sorry, I'm not willing to try harder to grasp your non sequiturs. Good thing that it wasn't a non sequitur you needed to grasp, then, but a context.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Nathalie LaPorte
Republic University Minmatar Republic
119
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 04:16:00 -
[252] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Nathalie LaPorte wrote:I'm sorry, I'm not willing to try harder to grasp your non sequiturs. Good thing that it wasn't a non sequitur you needed to grasp, then, but a context.
I'm sorry, but that doesn't follow from my premises either. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13791
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 04:19:00 -
[253] - Quote
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:I'm sorry, but that doesn't follow from my premises either. Good thing that I wasn't talking about them, then. No need to be sorry. Just try harder to grasp the context next time.
Also, from your inability to actually present any kind of argument, I'm hereby concluding that you've realised not just that I was right all along, but also why, and you're feeling a bit silly about having missed something that obvious in spite of all your talk about logic.
It's ok. At least now you know a bit more about non sequiturs and the different guises they may take. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Ryuu Shi
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
34
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 04:31:00 -
[254] - Quote
...ok this premises and context thing is just getting a little silly now don't you both think?? Ganking miners has gone too far. Ganking is wrong, and bad. There should be a new, stronger word for Ganking like badwrong or badong. Yes, Ganking is badong. From this moment, I will stand for the opposite of Ganking, gnodab. - Said no-one, ever. |
Nathalie LaPorte
Republic University Minmatar Republic
119
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 04:34:00 -
[255] - Quote
Tippia wrote: Also, from your inability to actually present any kind of argument, I'm hereby concluding that you've realised not just that I was right all along, but also why, and you're feeling a bit silly about having missed something that obvious in spite of all your talk about logic..
Nice combination, the "claim the argument you just responded to 20 times isn't actually a real argument at all" plus the "hereby conclude that I win" plus the "impute negative emotions to the other party". Impressive.
That is a serious 3fer of illogical rhetorical device. However, it still doesn't fol...I forget what comes next. |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
3080
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 04:38:00 -
[256] - Quote
De'Veldrin wrote:Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Hi everyone. Probably my post will bring a lot of criticism but I want to make a point. Due to ship skills revamp people who train Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V are going to get around 6mil SP. That is fine. But players who dont do that will get nothing.
I propose that players who decided not to train the mentioned skill get partial recompensation (say 30% of the max possible skills). For example, if someone gets zero additional SP from summer expansion he qualifies for 6x0.3 = 2m free SP to allocate. If the player gets 2m SP from summer expansion he qualifies for (6-2)x0.3 = 1,3m free SP to allocate etc.
Some of u will object because we all knew that in advance and could train Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V. BUT while for older players 20-30 days of training is nothing newer players cant afford to spend so much time on 1-2 skills. It gives unfair advantage to older players and players who already have Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V over newer player.
That's why I propose recompensation. So let me get this right - You want a reward for failing to plan ahead for a change that has been announced for at least 6 - 9 months. How about No? Does No work for you?
I would like your post but you're sitting at 1337 likes, and it seemed fitting. TEST Alliance BEST Alliance |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13791
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 04:38:00 -
[257] - Quote
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:Nice combination, the "claim the argument you just responded to 20 times isn't actually a real argument at all" plus the "hereby conclude that I win" plus the "impute negative emotions to the other party". Impressive. GǪand, until evidence comes along to falsify or cast any kind of doubt on it, remains the only sane conclusion.
Oh, and you've only posted 3 times since the statement was made GÇö none of them actually addressing the statement GÇö so claiming that the GÇ£the argument you responded to 20 timeGÇ¥ isn't an argument (by virtue of not existing at all) is quite easy.
Quote:However, it still doesn't follow from my premises. GǪwhich it doesn't have to, since they aren't germane to the topic at hand.
Now, would you like to take a stab at proving me wrong aboutGǪ wellGǪ anything? Or at least offer some argument towards that effect? Perhaps you would like to read up on what a GÇ£non sequiturGÇ¥ is, rather than rely on a very limited (and ultimately insufficient) dictionary definition? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Nathalie LaPorte
Republic University Minmatar Republic
119
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 04:53:00 -
[258] - Quote
Tippia wrote: Now, would you like to take a stab at proving me wrong aboutGǪ wellGǪ anything? Or at least offer some argument towards that effect? Perhaps you would like to read up on what a Gǣnon sequiturGǥ is, rather than rely on a very limited (and ultimately insufficient) dictionary definition?
I'm sorry, but emulating you and listening to you argue against your own arguments is much superior.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13791
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 04:59:00 -
[259] - Quote
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:I'm sorry, but emulating you and listening to you argue against your own arguments is much superior. Maybe you should try doing that then. It got you nowhere the first time since you failed to pick up on the actual answer and instead went off on an irrelevant tangent, but maybe second time's the charm.
Meanwhile, would you like to take a stab at proving me wrong aboutGǪ wellGǪ anything? Or at least offer some argument towards that effect? Perhaps you would like to read up on what a GÇ£non sequiturGÇ¥ is, rather than rely on a very limited (and ultimately insufficient) dictionary definition? Maybe you can demonstrate how PGéü and PGéé actually leads to C? Or even better, how PGéé leads to C without PGéü GÇö that would be interestingGǪ
GǪor you can keep evading, further highlighting your inability to actually present a coherent argument. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Domina Trix
McKNOBBLER DRINKING CLAN
37
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 05:14:00 -
[260] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Hi everyone. Probably my post will bring a lot of criticism but I want to make a point. Due to ship skills revamp people who train Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V are going to get around 6mil SP. That is fine. But players who dont do that will get nothing.
I propose that players who decided not to train the mentioned skill get partial recompensation (say 30% of the max possible skills). For example, if someone gets zero additional SP from summer expansion he qualifies for 6x0.3 = 2m free SP to allocate. If the player gets 2m SP from summer expansion he qualifies for (6-2)x0.3 = 1,3m free SP to allocate etc.
Some of u will object because we all knew that in advance and could train Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V. BUT while for older players 20-30 days of training is nothing newer players cant afford to spend so much time on 1-2 skills. It gives unfair advantage to older players and players who already have Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V over newer player.
That's why I propose recompensation.
A players total SP is irrelevant to anything in the game apart from maybe e-peen. It is where the player has spent the SP that makes the difference.
An older player has no advantage having battlecruisers V over a newer player, once the change happens and they get all the racial battlecruisers at 5 do you think they are going to fly them all at once? no, they are going to work out which one suits their playstyle and go with that one just the same as a sensible new player is going to.
What you are asking for is basically 1.3 mill free sp to spend where you like for anyone who hasn't trained a particular skill. How unfair is that?
Two of the defining characteristics of a carebear are wanting other players to play the way the carebear wants and whining on the forums for the game to change when they don't. Yet I see more threads on these forums from gankers than I do miners whining about wanting the game changed to suit them. |
|
Nathalie LaPorte
Republic University Minmatar Republic
119
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 05:40:00 -
[261] - Quote
Tippia wrote: GǪor you can keep evading, further highlighting your inability to actually present a coherent argument.
...or you can keep insulting me, with zingless ad hominems that make a mockery of any facade of coherent logic, but lack any kind of punch to be effective as an insult.
Tippia wrote:Maybe you can demonstrate how PGéü and PGéé actually leads to C?.
Very simple:
PGéü: Current skill system is bad. PGéé: Current skill system is better than before. C: Old skill system was bad.
Could not be more obvious. I don't agree with either premise, or the conclusion, but that's not at issue here. PGéü + PGéé => C, so it's not a non sequitur. |
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
329
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 05:42:00 -
[262] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:All posts like 'deal with it' are not valid here. I want official CCP response. Didn't think this thread could improve any further. Definitely got that wrong.
Remove insurance. |
Abraham Nalelmir
FATAL Warfare
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 05:44:00 -
[263] - Quote
1- I am a new player, I dropped all my Guardian plans, T2 large guns plans, even I delayed hull upgrades 5 just to train BC to 5 2- They "decided" they are responsible for their decision 3- Giving them 2 million SP FREE to allocate anywhere is not fair for me, I who spent 1.5 months maxing out BC & Destroyers with all racial frigates/cruisers skills
I have joined after the titan nerf and after caps were kicked out of high sec, am I entitled to have a titan and a cap in my starting home system? |
Royal Executioner Shazih
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 05:51:00 -
[264] - Quote
Abraham Nalelmir wrote:1- I am a new player, I dropped all my Guardian plans, T2 large guns plans, even I delayed hull upgrades 5 just to train BC to 5 2- They "decided" they are responsible for their decision 3- Giving them 2 million SP FREE to allocate anywhere is not fair for me, I who spent 1.5 months maxing out BC & Destroyers with all racial frigates/cruisers skills
I have joined after the titan nerf and after caps were kicked out of high sec, am I entitled to have a titan and a cap in my starting home system?
U still get 6mil SP, which is way better than 2. |
Nathalie LaPorte
Republic University Minmatar Republic
119
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 05:55:00 -
[265] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Abraham Nalelmir wrote:1- I am a new player, I dropped all my Guardian plans, T2 large guns plans, even I delayed hull upgrades 5 just to train BC to 5 2- They "decided" they are responsible for their decision 3- Giving them 2 million SP FREE to allocate anywhere is not fair for me, I who spent 1.5 months maxing out BC & Destroyers with all racial frigates/cruisers skills
I have joined after the titan nerf and after caps were kicked out of high sec, am I entitled to have a titan and a cap in my starting home system? U still get 6mil SP, which is way better than 2.
6 mil SP spent somewhere you now regret is way worse than 2m unallocated SP. If you're willing to consider someone who regrets not training BC, why won't you consider someone who regrets the opposite?
|
Royal Executioner Shazih
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 06:01:00 -
[266] - Quote
Georgina Parmala wrote:Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Let's take League of legends. Players ask for sale there all the time and no1 writes like' hey I paid for that char full price, so u have too'. Even when I bought a char for full price and it was put on sale 2 weeks later I never flamed about it, because I've already been enjoying it for 2 weeks.
But EVE players played EVE too much and so here all I get is: 'EVE is harsh. Deal with it. etc.' U guys forgot that EVE just a game. Yes, lets. There are no "skill point" sales in league. There are "Aurum" sales. Kind of like EvE has PLEX bundle sales. This relates to character progression how? Oh right, you can buy boosts in league that increase leveling speed for noobs, kind of like buying PLEX to fund implants in EvE. Also, the reason people tell you to deal with it when you buy a character that then goes on sale, is the sales are announced well in advance. Sound familiar? They reduce in-game prices of old characters over time. Kind of like EvE is about to reduce training requirements on specialized ships. Both have the same goal - to help a new player catch up to a competitive level. You're just mad that I have every single champion in the League. That **** took effort. Err, made a skill plan that gave me what I wanted out of the skill changes. (Disclaimer: I don't actually have every single champion in league - any more, since I started playing EvE I'm about 10 short)
|
Dave Stark
2803
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 06:08:00 -
[267] - Quote
this thread is at 13 pages?
christ. didn't we already decide the OP is a moron and nobody should get free sp for making bad choices? |
Royal Executioner Shazih
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 06:09:00 -
[268] - Quote
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Abraham Nalelmir wrote:1- I am a new player, I dropped all my Guardian plans, T2 large guns plans, even I delayed hull upgrades 5 just to train BC to 5 2- They "decided" they are responsible for their decision 3- Giving them 2 million SP FREE to allocate anywhere is not fair for me, I who spent 1.5 months maxing out BC & Destroyers with all racial frigates/cruisers skills
I have joined after the titan nerf and after caps were kicked out of high sec, am I entitled to have a titan and a cap in my starting home system? U still get 6mil SP, which is way better than 2. 6 mil SP spent somewhere you now regret is way worse than 2m unallocated SP. If you're willing to consider someone who regrets not training BC, why won't you consider someone who regrets the opposite?
I guess there is a fraction that would satisfy both. |
Nathalie LaPorte
Republic University Minmatar Republic
120
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 06:13:00 -
[269] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:
I guess there is a fraction that would satisfy both.
If this thread hasn't shown you that there really isn't, then I don't know what to say :/
|
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4683
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 06:14:00 -
[270] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Can u remind me how much ever-growing EVE has? The ever-growing EVE that isn't free to play like LoL is? Module activation timers are buggy. CCP please fix. |
|
Royal Executioner Shazih
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 06:17:00 -
[271] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Can u remind me how much ever-growing EVE has? The ever-growing EVE that isn't free to play like LoL is? Besides, why does it matter that EVE has 500,000 subscribers instead of 50,000,000? We're going for quality here, not quantity. LoL isn't even an MMORPG, so I don't know why you're trying to compare it to EVE anyway.
It is if u buy PLEX for isk. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4684
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 06:19:00 -
[272] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Can u remind me how much ever-growing EVE has? The ever-growing EVE that isn't free to play like LoL is? Besides, why does it matter that EVE has 500,000 subscribers instead of 50,000,000? We're going for quality here, not quantity. LoL isn't even an MMORPG, so I don't know why you're trying to compare it to EVE anyway. It is if u buy PLEX for isk. Because PLEX randomly pops out of veldspar asteroids and Guristas pirates, right? Module activation timers are buggy. CCP please fix. |
Royal Executioner Shazih
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 06:23:00 -
[273] - Quote
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:
I guess there is a fraction that would satisfy both.
If this thread hasn't shown you that there really isn't, then I don't know what to say :/
The amount of approving posts here does not imply anything. I'll gain more support as time X comes closer. |
Royal Executioner Shazih
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 06:27:00 -
[274] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Can u remind me how much ever-growing EVE has? The ever-growing EVE that isn't free to play like LoL is? Besides, why does it matter that EVE has 500,000 subscribers instead of 50,000,000? We're going for quality here, not quantity. LoL isn't even an MMORPG, so I don't know why you're trying to compare it to EVE anyway. It is if u buy PLEX for isk. Because PLEX randomly pops out of veldspar asteroids and Guristas pirates, right?
Of course dude, of course |
Nathalie LaPorte
Republic University Minmatar Republic
120
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 06:30:00 -
[275] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Nathalie LaPorte wrote:Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:
I guess there is a fraction that would satisfy both.
If this thread hasn't shown you that there really isn't, then I don't know what to say :/ The amount of approving posts here does not imply anything. I'll gain more support as time X comes closer.
It implies that you can't make everyone happy on this issue. You probably will gain more support as time X comes closer, but the fact that you can't make everyone happy will still be true. This is why CCP makes wide-sweeping changes to the skill tree like this so rarely. At this point if they changed anything, they'd have to give another 6 months as warning so people could prepare for the new system, whatever that would be; and at some level you must know that's not going to happen. I don't want to tell you you're fighting a hopeless battle, so I won't tell you about the hopeless battle you're fighting.
|
dark heartt
I Own Four Sheep The Methodical Alliance
136
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 06:44:00 -
[276] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Georgina Parmala wrote:Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Let's take League of legends. Players ask for sale there all the time and no1 writes like' hey I paid for that char full price, so u have too'. Even when I bought a char for full price and it was put on sale 2 weeks later I never flamed about it, because I've already been enjoying it for 2 weeks.
But EVE players played EVE too much and so here all I get is: 'EVE is harsh. Deal with it. etc.' U guys forgot that EVE just a game. Yes, lets. There are no "skill point" sales in league. There are "Aurum" sales. Kind of like EvE has PLEX bundle sales. This relates to character progression how? Oh right, you can buy boosts in league that increase leveling speed for noobs, kind of like buying PLEX to fund implants in EvE. Also, the reason people tell you to deal with it when you buy a character that then goes on sale, is the sales are announced well in advance. Sound familiar? They reduce in-game prices of old characters over time. Kind of like EvE is about to reduce training requirements on specialized ships. Both have the same goal - to help a new player catch up to a competitive level. You're just mad that I have every single champion in the League. That **** took effort. Err, made a skill plan that gave me what I wanted out of the skill changes. (Disclaimer: I don't actually have every single champion in league - any more, since I started playing EvE I'm about 10 short) League of legends only and always helps newer players by slowly cutting advantages of older players. LoL would be the same as EVE if everyone who starts playing that game is forced to purchase characters in their release order. Do u think anyone would play it? Supporting newer players is the only viable option as older players get bored by the game/change lifestyle etc. CCP on the other hand does the opposite. EVE growing year by year. But who are they? New players? Returnig? Alts? LoL has over 30 mil accounts. Can u remind me how much ever-growing EVE has?
You cannot compare Eve's growth to LoL. LoL is a casual focused game with a competitive side and a gradual learning curve. Eve is a very hardcore competitive focused game with a steep learning curve (and a niche market to boot). However the number of current active subscribers has overall been growing and there is no way that all of them are alts and returning players.
There will be no SP reimbursement for people who were unprepared. This is Eve to its core. Everything in Eve is unfair and if you can't handle that, you shouldn't play. |
Dave Stark
2805
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 06:46:00 -
[277] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Nathalie LaPorte wrote:Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:
I guess there is a fraction that would satisfy both.
If this thread hasn't shown you that there really isn't, then I don't know what to say :/ The amount of approving posts here does not imply anything. I'll gain more support as time X comes closer.
no you won't.
stupidity is a constant. |
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
2370
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 06:55:00 -
[278] - Quote
I demand a cut for doing nothing! Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk! |
Royal Executioner Shazih
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 07:05:00 -
[279] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Nathalie LaPorte wrote:Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:
I guess there is a fraction that would satisfy both.
If this thread hasn't shown you that there really isn't, then I don't know what to say :/ The amount of approving posts here does not imply anything. I'll gain more support as time X comes closer. no you won't. stupidity is a constant.
U cry like a 10-year old boy. Oh, wait. U probably are a 10-year old boy |
Johno R
The Scope Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 07:50:00 -
[280] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Nathalie LaPorte wrote:Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:
I guess there is a fraction that would satisfy both.
If this thread hasn't shown you that there really isn't, then I don't know what to say :/ The amount of approving posts here does not imply anything. I'll gain more support as time X comes closer. no you won't. stupidity is a constant. U cry like a 10-year old boy. Oh, wait. U probably are a 10-year old boy As I was reading, I was thinking of posting something along the lines of
"Don't worry so much about it. In a couple of months time you won't even remember about this event. I bet for you that it seems now as if everything takes so long to train, and that EVERY other player has more skillspoints than me, therefore being inherently better. Seriously once you start getting key skills to lol 5, you use you're first T2 ship or weapon (if you aren't already) time won't be such an issue. Here, take some of this weed and chill :)"
But seriously? "U cry like a 10-year old"? Come on man, don't be stupid like that. It will just add fuel to the thread flame |
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Khalkotauroi Defence Labs
8081
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 07:51:00 -
[281] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:
League of legends only and always helps newer players by slowly cutting advantages of older players. LoL would be the same as EVE if everyone who starts playing that game is forced to purchase characters in their release order. Do u think anyone would play it? Supporting newer players is the only viable option as older players get bored by the game/change lifestyle etc. CCP on the other hand does the opposite. EVE growing year by year. But who are they? New players? Returnig? Alts? LoL has over 30 mil accounts. Can u remind me how much ever-growing EVE has?
Name one MMO that can boast of A: being 10 years old B: Apart from the occasional glitch, such as Incarna and its fallout, having a steady increase in subs during that those 10 years.
You can exclude World of Warcraft, it's subs are up and down like an elevator, depending on whether or not Blizzard has released a new expansion for purchase.
Most MMO's spike early and then fade or go pay to win/ free to play. The beauty of Eve, unlike 99.9% of MMOs, is that there is no end game content, old players don't get bored and leave, as evidenced by the considerable amount of people who have actively played since Eve was in beta, they instead create their own content,which is much better than dev content anyway, and ridicule the instant gratification gamers. I'm a relative newbie at coming up on 4 years, Eve is one of the very few games that has held my attention for any considerable time period. A war hasn't been fought this badly since Olaf the Hairy, High Chief of all the Vikings, accidentally ordered 80,000 battle helmets with the horns on the inside. |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
725
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 08:01:00 -
[282] - Quote
What about...NO !!!!
Why should someone not willing to have those skills get free SP when we, who have spent lots of time training for, are getting NONE ?
So let's get this straight once and for all: no one is getting FREE SP !!"if you could fly it before you will be able to fly it after"
How hard is this to understand??? *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Morrow Disca
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
32
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 08:12:00 -
[283] - Quote
You Why Are
The OP can't even put the effort into typing 3 little words. No wonder you fails at planning ahead. No free SP for you, the rest of us had to give up time in our skill plans to earn this SP. You have done nothing. |
Royal Executioner Shazih
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 08:37:00 -
[284] - Quote
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:What about...NO !!!!
Why should someone not willing to have those skills get free SP when we, who have spent lots of time training for, are getting NONE ?
So let's get this straight once and for all: no one is getting FREE SP !!"if you could fly it before you will be able to fly it after"
How hard is this to understand???
EDIT: Why should I loose SP or ability to fly all of my T3's, T2's and Command ships when I can already do it now ?
Why people that haven't invested time in training all frigates/cruisers at 5 Destroyers and battlecruisers at 5, all T2 ships at least at 4 and all T3's subs and skills, get 2M free Sp?
Because they're special snowflakes?
Because u got a gift of being able to fly all T2 destroyers and T2 BCs for training only 2 universal skills. Pure gift u perceive as a norm. Now that gift is about to be removed. And so I ask for fraction of it. Simple as that. |
Frying Doom
2403
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 08:43:00 -
[285] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:What about...NO !!!!
Why should someone not willing to have those skills get free SP when we, who have spent lots of time training for, are getting NONE ?
So let's get this straight once and for all: no one is getting FREE SP !!"if you could fly it before you will be able to fly it after"
How hard is this to understand???
EDIT: Why should I loose SP or ability to fly all of my T3's, T2's and Command ships when I can already do it now ?
Why people that haven't invested time in training all frigates/cruisers at 5 Destroyers and battlecruisers at 5, all T2 ships at least at 4 and all T3's subs and skills, get 2M free Sp?
Because they're special snowflakes? Because u got a gift of being able to fly all T2 destroyers and T2 BCs for training only 2 universal skills. Pure gift u perceive as a norm. Now that gift is about to be removed. And so I ask for fraction of it. Simple as that. It is not a gift, it is a reward.
A gift is something given freely, a reward is something earned. Those who spent the time earning Destroyer V and BC V, have earned the new racial skills.
They chose to sacrifice now for a future payout, you did nothing and still want a future payout.
Not going to happen. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Virginia Virdana
Envoy Fast Deployment
45
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 08:45:00 -
[286] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:I guess there is a fraction that would satisfy both.
The fraction that the Eve community is willing to offer you as compensation is 0/8ths now, with additional weekly payments of 0/8ths up to the date of release. After that you're on your own.
They say never come to a gunfight armed with a knife.You appear to have come armed with a spoon. |
baltec1
Bat Country
6054
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 08:45:00 -
[287] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:
Because u got a gift of being able to fly all T2 destroyers and T2 BCs for training only 2 universal skills. Pure gift u perceive as a norm. Now that gift is about to be removed. And so I ask for fraction of it. Simple as that.
Why exactly do you deserve free SP to put anywhere when I am getting nothing at all other than a more expensive clone cost? |
Samillian
Angry Mustellid
210
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 08:51:00 -
[288] - Quote
Every change has its winners and losers this time surprisingly considering the nature of New Eden there will be far more winners.
You like everyone else have had months of warning about this and there are still two months until Odyssey is deployed I suggest you get your training sorted out and you should manage Destroyer and BC 5 in time.
NBSI shall be the whole of the Law |
Jonah Gravenstein
Khalkotauroi Defence Labs
8084
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 08:53:00 -
[289] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:
Because u got a gift of being able to fly all T2 destroyers and T2 BCs for training only 2 universal skills. Pure gift u perceive as a norm. Now that gift is about to be removed. And so I ask for fraction of it. Simple as that.
It's not a gift, we trained those skills, therefore we can fly those ships, both before and after the upcoming patch, you on the other hand have not trained those skills, therefore you won't be able to fly those ships before and after the patch, unless you start training now, which is within the realms of possibility. All CCP are doing is bringing those two oddities in line with the pre existing racial ship skill types. The only change for those of us that already have the skills, that you are so upset about, is that our clones just got more expensive.
Now give us one good reason why you should get SP for free, when those of us that have invested the time only get to retain the ability to fly ships that we already can.
BTW "u" is actually spelt YOU, by using "u" as an abbreviation you make yourself look both immature and foolish, especially given that Eve tends to appeal to a more mature audience. A war hasn't been fought this badly since Olaf the Hairy, High Chief of all the Vikings, accidentally ordered 80,000 battle helmets with the horns on the inside. |
Royal Executioner Shazih
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 09:00:00 -
[290] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:
Because u got a gift of being able to fly all T2 destroyers and T2 BCs for training only 2 universal skills. Pure gift u perceive as a norm. Now that gift is about to be removed. And so I ask for fraction of it. Simple as that.
It's not a gift, we trained those skills, therefore we can fly those ships, both before and after the upcoming patch, you on the other hand have not trained those skills, therefore you won't be able to fly those ships before and after the patch, unless you start training now, which is within the realms of possibility. All CCP are doing is bringing those two oddities in line with the pre existing racial ship skill types. The only change for those of us that already have the skills, that you are so upset about, is that our clones just got more expensive, we're not gaining anything at all, we are simply retaining what we already have. You on the other hand seem to want a handout, I've got news for you, not going to happen. Now give us one good reason why you should get SP for free, when those of us that have invested the time only get to retain the ability to fly ships that we already can. BTW "u" is actually spelt YOU, by using "u" as an abbreviation you make yourself look both immature and foolish, especially given that Eve tends to appeal to a more mature audience.
You were supposed to be able to fly T2 say Amarr BC for 20 days of training, right? But for some odd reason it allowed u to fly all T2 BCs. Right? So it is a gift you've been enjoying ever since u got BC til V. Right? You already got more than intended. Right? So I also can get more than indented by YOUR logic |
|
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1028
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 09:01:00 -
[291] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:You were supposed to be able to fly T2 say Amarr BC for 20 days of training, right? But for some odd reason it allowed u to fly all T2 BCs. Right? So it is a gift you've been enjoying ever since u got BC til V. Right? You already got more than intended. Right? So I also can get more than indented by YOUR logic no he was supposed to be able to fly every bc at v for 20 days of training |
baltec1
Bat Country
6054
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 09:04:00 -
[292] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:
You were supposed to be able to fly T2 say Amarr BC for 20 days of training, right? But for some odd reason it allowed u to fly all T2 BCs. Right? So it is a gift you've been enjoying ever since u got BC til V. Right? You already got more than intended. Right? So I also can get more than indented by YOUR logic
Wrong. We got exactly what CCP intended, but it is silly having just one skill for all 4 ships so CCP are changing it.
What we are getting is exactly what we can fly now but lumped with millions of extra SP which will do nothing but push a lot of us into a more expensive clone.
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Khalkotauroi Defence Labs
8084
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 09:10:00 -
[293] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote: You were supposed to be able to fly T2 say Amarr BC for 20 days of training, right? But for some odd reason it allowed u to fly all T2 BCs. Right? So it is a gift you've been enjoying ever since u got BC til V. Right? You already got more than intended. Right? So I also can get more than indented by YOUR logic
No I did not get more than intended, as the battlecruiser skill currently stands I get the ability to fly the racial battlecruisers that I have the prerequisite skills for, and actually no I can't fly a T2 battlecruiser because I don't have the relevant skill, command ships, trained. What I do have is the ability to fly T1 battlecruisers up to and including the tier 3s, T=tech, not tier, and I will be retaining that ability after patch day, because CCP are not going to penalise people for having the foresight to take advantage of a well publicised change in the skill queue. A war hasn't been fought this badly since Olaf the Hairy, High Chief of all the Vikings, accidentally ordered 80,000 battle helmets with the horns on the inside. |
Halete
Alexylva Paradox
769
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 09:11:00 -
[294] - Quote
People like to use the 'stick & carrot' metaphor (inappropriately mind you) in EVE concerning development choices.
So in this case this is like CCP is bludgeoning fail-skill-planners within inches of their life and in return the players are saying "Please just give us the carrot CCP." Trading chains for shackles, I am free. |
Dave Stark
2808
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 09:40:00 -
[295] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:U cry like a 10-year old boy. Oh, wait. U probably are a 10-year old boy
let's see the facts here.
starts thread crying about ship changes you were informed about nearly a year ago. had plenty of time to train the skills but decided not to. demands 2mil SP for no reason other than stupidity. complains bitterly when people point out your error. say i'm the one crying.
the people in this room with me are wondering why i'm laughing so hard.
please, try harder. |
Miles Harker
State War Academy Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 09:47:00 -
[296] - Quote
I read this post last night and found out about these changes for the first time. I immediately adjusted my skill plan, used one of my remaps, plugged in my +4s and guess what?
I will complete all the training to include; BC 5, Destoyer 5 and all racial frigate and cruiser skills before the launch of Odyssey. Bear in mind I'm 3 days old.
So, perhaps if your first reaction was not to come to the forums and complain. And it was instead to investigate the feasibility of achieving the skills within the time frame, like I have, then I may have had a little more sympathy for you. |
Daimon Kaiera
Kraken.
240
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 09:52:00 -
[297] - Quote
Miles Harker wrote:I read this post last night and found out about these changes for the first time. I immediately adjusted my skill plan, used one of my remaps, plugged in my +4s and guess what?
I will complete all the training to include; BC 5, Destoyer 5 and all racial frigate and cruiser skills before the launch of Odyssey. Bear in mind I'm 3 days old.
So, perhaps if your first reaction was not to come to the forums and complain. And it was instead to investigate the feasibility of achieving the skills within the time frame, like I have, then I may have had a little more sympathy for you.
How did you train the Cybernetics skills to plug in +4's in less than three days?
Or afford them, for that matter. Here by talk start if go able? |
dark heartt
I Own Four Sheep The Methodical Alliance
136
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 09:54:00 -
[298] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:
Because u got a gift of being able to fly all T2 destroyers and T2 BCs for training only 2 universal skills. Pure gift u perceive as a norm. Now that gift is about to be removed. And so I ask for fraction of it. Simple as that.
It's not a gift, we trained those skills, therefore we can fly those ships, both before and after the upcoming patch, you on the other hand have not trained those skills, therefore you won't be able to fly those ships before and after the patch, unless you start training now, which is within the realms of possibility. All CCP are doing is bringing those two oddities in line with the pre existing racial ship skill types. The only change for those of us that already have the skills, that you are so upset about, is that our clones just got more expensive, we're not gaining anything at all, we are simply retaining what we already have. You on the other hand seem to want a handout, I've got news for you, not going to happen. Now give us one good reason why you should get SP for free, when those of us that have invested the time only get to retain the ability to fly ships that we already can. BTW "u" is actually spelt YOU, by using "u" as an abbreviation you make yourself look both immature and foolish, especially given that Eve tends to appeal to a more mature audience. You were supposed to be able to fly T2 say Amarr BC for 20 days of training, right? But for some odd reason it allowed u to fly all T2 BCs. Right? So it is a gift you've been enjoying ever since u got BC til V. Right? You already got more than intended. Right? So I also can get more than indented by YOUR logic
He still had to train the racial frigate and racial cruiser skill up and if he wanted to fly all the ships he had to train the racials for each. The more you rage about this the more you are going to be laughed at and told no. |
Ra Jackson
CRIMINALS IN ACTION
170
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 09:56:00 -
[299] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Hi everyone. Some of u will object because we all knew that in advance and could train Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V. BUT while for older players 20-30 days of training is nothing newer players cant afford to spend so much time on 1-2 skills. It gives unfair advantage to older players and players who already have Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V over newer player.
So older players have more skills than newer players? Who would have thought.. I halted Titan 5 to get Destroyers to 5, so shut up! |
Miles Harker
State War Academy Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 09:56:00 -
[300] - Quote
Daimon Kaiera wrote:Miles Harker wrote:I read this post last night and found out about these changes for the first time. I immediately adjusted my skill plan, used one of my remaps, plugged in my +4s and guess what?
I will complete all the training to include; BC 5, Destoyer 5 and all racial frigate and cruiser skills before the launch of Odyssey. Bear in mind I'm 3 days old.
So, perhaps if your first reaction was not to come to the forums and complain. And it was instead to investigate the feasibility of achieving the skills within the time frame, like I have, then I may have had a little more sympathy for you. How did you train the Cybernetics skills to plug in +4's in less than three days? Or afford them, for that matter.
No offence, but are you really that naive?
Cybernetics 4 is achievable in 3 days and 100M for a set of +4s isn't even a quarter the value of a PLEX. |
|
Daimon Kaiera
Kraken.
240
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 10:02:00 -
[301] - Quote
Miles Harker wrote:Daimon Kaiera wrote:Miles Harker wrote:I read this post last night and found out about these changes for the first time. I immediately adjusted my skill plan, used one of my remaps, plugged in my +4s and guess what?
I will complete all the training to include; BC 5, Destoyer 5 and all racial frigate and cruiser skills before the launch of Odyssey. Bear in mind I'm 3 days old.
So, perhaps if your first reaction was not to come to the forums and complain. And it was instead to investigate the feasibility of achieving the skills within the time frame, like I have, then I may have had a little more sympathy for you. How did you train the Cybernetics skills to plug in +4's in less than three days? Or afford them, for that matter. No offence, but are you really that naive? Cybernetics 4 is achievable in 3 days and 100M for a set of +4s isn't even a quarter the value of a PLEX.
No, I just see Cybernetics 4 avalible in 2 days 5 hours with my +3's in and didn't think you bought a Plex.
Yes, I'm too lazy to train it to 5 for the +5 implants. There are more important things to do.
Like getting those +5's. Here by talk start if go able? |
March rabbit
epTa Team Inc.
651
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 10:04:00 -
[302] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote: But y I am punished for that? Y I have to spend 4x times more than they? Because I am younger? Newer players already heavily disadvantaged
well. let imagine you got these "compensation" SP. Okey.
And now new person joins Eve Online day after summer expansion. Does he need to get some compensation? He only 1 day late to receive this "SP gift". 1) Yes - what about new players who joined 2+ days after expansion? Where is that border after which CCP should not "compensate new player disadvantage"? 2) No - this is "unfair": he is already newer and have big disadvantage.
Hope this helps.
|
Miles Harker
State War Academy Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 10:07:00 -
[303] - Quote
Daimon Kaiera wrote:Miles Harker wrote:Daimon Kaiera wrote:Miles Harker wrote:I read this post last night and found out about these changes for the first time. I immediately adjusted my skill plan, used one of my remaps, plugged in my +4s and guess what?
I will complete all the training to include; BC 5, Destoyer 5 and all racial frigate and cruiser skills before the launch of Odyssey. Bear in mind I'm 3 days old.
So, perhaps if your first reaction was not to come to the forums and complain. And it was instead to investigate the feasibility of achieving the skills within the time frame, like I have, then I may have had a little more sympathy for you. How did you train the Cybernetics skills to plug in +4's in less than three days? Or afford them, for that matter. No offence, but are you really that naive? Cybernetics 4 is achievable in 3 days and 100M for a set of +4s isn't even a quarter the value of a PLEX. No, I just see Cybernetics 4 avalible in 2 days 5 hours with my +3's in and didn't think you bought a Plex. Yes, I'm too lazy to train it to 5 for the +5 implants. There are more important things to do. Like getting those +5's.
My intention was to beeline the +5S but this change for odyssey changed that.
Of course I'm going to buy a PLEX when im going to get 6m million additional skill points which is what 3-4 months of subscription charges?
You'd be daft not too...
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
8818
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 10:08:00 -
[304] - Quote
how on earth are there 15 pages on this? Malcanis' Law:-á "Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of 'new players', that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players."
|
Daimon Kaiera
Kraken.
240
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 10:12:00 -
[305] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:how on earth are there 15 pages on this?
I like your signature. Here by talk start if go able? |
Buhhdust Princess
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
3488
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 10:15:00 -
[306] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Hi everyone. Probably my post will bring a lot of criticism but I want to make a point. Due to ship skills revamp people who train Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V are going to get around 6mil SP. That is fine. But players who dont do that will get nothing.
I propose that players who decided not to train the mentioned skill get partial recompensation (say 30% of the max possible skills). For example, if someone gets zero additional SP from summer expansion he qualifies for 6x0.3 = 2m free SP to allocate. If the player gets 2m SP from summer expansion he qualifies for (6-2)x0.3 = 1,3m free SP to allocate etc.
Some of u will object because we all knew that in advance and could train Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V. BUT while for older players 20-30 days of training is nothing newer players cant afford to spend so much time on 1-2 skills. It gives unfair advantage to older players and players who already have Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V over newer player.
That's why I propose recompensation.
and newer players haven't had their fair share of advantages over older players?
Sit the **** down. |
Royal Executioner Shazih
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 10:28:00 -
[307] - Quote
Quote:starts thread crying about ship changes you were informed about nearly a year ago.
U are not very smart are u? My character is just 2 months old.
Quote:had plenty of time to train the skills but decided not to.
see above
Quote:demands 2mil SP for no reason other than stupidity.
Kid, u should be more polite. Your parents failed to teach u that as I see.
It also shows how limited your world perception. Learn to analyze different points of view. By the time u grow up u might learn or not
Quote:complains bitterly when people point out your error.
How do u detect my bitterness? Telepathy? More likely just a bold phrase (all your phrases are bold actually)
Quote:say i'm the one crying.
U are
People are wondering y u are laughing probably much more intelligent than u. But your lack knowledge/experince denies u to understand that. |
Multivariate
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 10:28:00 -
[308] - Quote
Miles Harker wrote:Daimon Kaiera wrote:Miles Harker wrote:Daimon Kaiera wrote:Miles Harker wrote:I read this post last night and found out about these changes for the first time. I immediately adjusted my skill plan, used one of my remaps, plugged in my +4s and guess what?
I will complete all the training to include; BC 5, Destoyer 5 and all racial frigate and cruiser skills before the launch of Odyssey. Bear in mind I'm 3 days old.
So, perhaps if your first reaction was not to come to the forums and complain. And it was instead to investigate the feasibility of achieving the skills within the time frame, like I have, then I may have had a little more sympathy for you. How did you train the Cybernetics skills to plug in +4's in less than three days? Or afford them, for that matter. No offence, but are you really that naive? Cybernetics 4 is achievable in 3 days and 100M for a set of +4s isn't even a quarter the value of a PLEX. No, I just see Cybernetics 4 avalible in 2 days 5 hours with my +3's in and didn't think you bought a Plex. Yes, I'm too lazy to train it to 5 for the +5 implants. There are more important things to do. Like getting those +5's. My intention was to beeline the +5S but this change for odyssey changed that. Of course I'm going to buy a PLEX when im going to get 6m million additional skill points which is what 3-4 months of subscription charges? You'd be daft not too...
Using +3 implants you'd only gain 350k fewer skillpoints, which is about 1 weeks worth of sub time.
I liken this change to learning skills, you think you're gaining skp by focusing on one thing. However, the best way to gain skillpoints is to enjoy the game so that you don't quit. I've learned this the hard way.
The character bazaar can be used to effectively buy skillpoints if you get good at making ISK.
|
Velicitia
Nex Exercitus
1423
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 10:29:00 -
[309] - Quote
I "can fly" all the dessies and battlecruisers as it stands, more because I had to train cruiser 5 for the logi boats. Fact of the matter though is that I don't touch anything except said logi boats, or maybe a Caldari boat that can sport hybrids.
Thing is though, I have no plans (or desire) right now to train projectiles or lasers or missiles, so I'll probably never actually fly any of the pure combat vessels the races sport (although ... the revelation looks badass, so capital lasers may make their way onto a skill plan). One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia Malcanis for CSM8 |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1341
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 10:33:00 -
[310] - Quote
Just no. Please give up, and stop polluting the forums. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
|
Dave Stark
2811
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 10:34:00 -
[311] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote: more butchery of the english language.
2 months old, old enough to train the skills you're crying about. you're the one that isn't smart, it would seem. when you stop acting like a mongoloid, i'll stop treating you like one. how did i detect your bitterness? the salty waterfall produced from your posts. if you think this is crying, you're even more ******** than i thought.
as i pointed out yesterday, if you start now you can have them trained by the patch anyway. so what exactly is the problem other than your own inability to comprehend basic facts? |
Virginia Virdana
Envoy Fast Deployment
45
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 10:38:00 -
[312] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Quote:had plenty of time to train the skills but decided not to. see above
As has been pointed out many time throughout this thread, if you started now, you would be a long way towards getting there by the time the change comes through and would get some (though not all) of the "free" skill points you seem to want.
If you choose not to, that is your perogative. But stop complaining. They say never come to a gunfight armed with a knife.You appear to have come armed with a spoon. |
Deaconn Frostt
Li3's Electric Cucumber Li3 Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 10:39:00 -
[313] - Quote
Quote:Im two months old. How was I supposed to plan it on time?
I like you have an account that is only 2 months old but I will have the training done in time for the expansion.
Not only that but I am a gallente pilot that had to cross train into caldari ships (naga etc) for doctrines and ratting and I will still have time to finish the required training.
Maybe look into remapping to get the skills done on time 27 in perception 21 in willpower plus 2 implants puts me up to 30 and 24.
Instead of trying to give reasons why you haven't trained them start looking into possibilities that will get them trained. By getting these trained you will save yourself about 90 days worth of training on all the iv and v racial cruiser training by my calculations, correct me if I'm wrong. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction Whores in space
176
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 10:42:00 -
[314] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Hi everyone. Probably my post will bring a lot of criticism but I want to make a point. Due to ship skills revamp people who train Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V are going to get around 6mil SP. That is fine. But players who dont do that will get nothing.
I propose that players who decided not to train the mentioned skill get partial recompensation (say 30% of the max possible skills). For example, if someone gets zero additional SP from summer expansion he qualifies for 6x0.3 = 2m free SP to allocate. If the player gets 2m SP from summer expansion he qualifies for (6-2)x0.3 = 1,3m free SP to allocate etc.
Some of u will object because we all knew that in advance and could train Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V. BUT while for older players 20-30 days of training is nothing newer players cant afford to spend so much time on 1-2 skills. It gives unfair advantage to older players and players who already have Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V over newer player.
That's why I propose recompensation. You fail tpo realize that we are not gettign ANY SP? We are just receivign the new skilsl to allow us fly the SAME SHIPS WE USED TO FLY?
WE ARE NOT GETTING FREE SP!!!! |
Jonah Gravenstein
Khalkotauroi Defence Labs
8085
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 10:49:00 -
[315] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote: My character is just 2 months old.
More than enough time to train the skills you're complaining about.
Quote:Kid, u should be more polite. Your parents failed to teach u that as I see.
It also shows how limited your world perception. Learn to analyze different points of view. By the time u grow up u might learn or not You should be less confrontational and self entitled, something your parents obviously failed to teach you. As for Dave being a child, I doubt it.
Quote: U are People are wondering y u are laughing probably much more intelligent than u. But your lack knowledge/experince denies u to understand that.
Please continue to murder the English language while lecturing people on their intelligence and experience. Even if English is not your native tongue your use of it is excruciatingly bad by any standard. A war hasn't been fought this badly since Olaf the Hairy, High Chief of all the Vikings, accidentally ordered 80,000 battle helmets with the horns on the inside. |
Ana Fox
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
59
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 10:51:00 -
[316] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:I see how bad EVE society because I played many games and read many forums. Let's take League of legends. Players ask for sale there all the time and no1 writes like' hey I paid for that char full price, so u have too'. Even when I bought a char for full price and it was put on sale 2 weeks later I never flamed about it, because I've already been enjoying it for 2 weeks.
But EVE players played EVE too much and so here all I get is: 'EVE is harsh. Deal with it. etc.' U guys forgot that EVE just a game.
Not true tbh.Let me ask you something since you are claiming you played many other games.
For example you play biggest MMO WoW.You started as let say warrior and you want to be tank.One day Blizzard say we are nerfing warrior tanks Paladins or god know what are best tanks now.You have gear that is maxed on your warrior and you guild says we need more of new best tanks.Will Blizzard give you new favored tanks for free ,or then will say you are free to lvl your new favored tank ?Do you think War Gaming will compensate you if they nerf your favorite tank ,or will give you something free if they change tech tree?You are delusional about those things.
When you are new last thing you need to worry about is how much SP you can accumulate as fast you can .Your priority is to learn mechanics as best you can.Since EVE Is so complex that will take time.No amount of SP and new ships that you can fly will help you do that faster.So by not getting all "great " stuff that you think older player do will not make you any weaker.You even now can make all your BCs up to lvl 4 easy.Do you really think that all players in EVE have all their ships on lvl 5?
New player will always be in position to catch up with older guys,but that is not by default you are so weak.By your standards older players now can start making posts ,how kitchen sink t1 frigate is able to tackle me and hold my few billion isk ship while his friends come.New players can hurt older ones and they do on daily basses ,that is cool?Give me any other game where new player can do that .
Point is when you finish one race line and start thinking about cross training,you will already have enough skill points that will trouble you considering your clone.As much that 6 mil SP looks great it will cost more all players that did that.
Dont be so grim and try to be realistic. |
Miles Harker
State War Academy Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 11:05:00 -
[317] - Quote
Quote:[quote]
Using +3 implants you'd only gain 350k fewer skillpoints, which is about 1 weeks worth of sub time.
I liken this change to learning skills, you think you're gaining skp by focusing on one thing. However, the best way to gain skillpoints is to enjoy the game so that you don't quit. I've learned this the hard way.
The character bazaar can be used to effectively buy skillpoints if you get good at making ISK.
I don't think I'm gaining skill points; I am gaining skill points and therefore time. Fact.
I agree with you that you should do what you enjoy, not try min/max for the sake of it. It is a game. However, my personal circumstances, work etc. and my "long term" view on EVE accommodates the approach I'm currently taking with my skill plan. But that might not necessarily be the right choice for others.
|
J1LT
Interstella Misfits
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 11:05:00 -
[318] - Quote
How hard is it to comprehend that,
If you can fly it before the patch, you can fly it after the patch.
Therefore have gained nothing other than a more expensive clone.
The mind boggles! |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1028
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 11:13:00 -
[319] - Quote
Miles Harker wrote:Quote: Using +3 implants you'd only gain 350k fewer skillpoints, which is about 1 weeks worth of sub time.
I liken this change to learning skills, you think you're gaining skp by focusing on one thing. However, the best way to gain skillpoints is to enjoy the game so that you don't quit. I've learned this the hard way.
The character bazaar can be used to effectively buy skillpoints if you get good at making ISK.
I don't think I'm gaining skill points; I am gaining skill points and therefore time. Fact. I agree with you that you should do what you enjoy, not try min/max for the sake of it. It is a game. However, my personal circumstances, work etc. and my "long term" view on EVE accommodates the approach I'm currently taking with my skill plan. But that might not necessarily be the right choice for others. it'll be a boring slog, since it'll limit your play options for that month, but i'd be lying if i said i wouldn't do the same thing |
Selene Nask
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
21
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 11:18:00 -
[320] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Virginia Virdana wrote:Royal Executioner Shazih wrote: But y I am punished for that? Y I have to spend 4x times more than they? Because I am younger? Newer players already heavily disadvantaged The only thing you are being "punished" for is your lack of forward planning Im two months old. How was I supposed to plan it on time?
I'm two month old. I just paid for my third month.
I read about the changes and made a plan. More then enough time to do it.
|
|
Naes Mlahrend
KINGS OF EDEN Sev3rance
88
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 11:18:00 -
[321] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Everything posted.
I'm not one to go off and just be a complete d**k but you are absolutely ******** in all you have posted in this thread and I only made it page 6.
Everyone has tried to explain to you, logically, why your idea is complete BS but are so thick headed and can't understand. I feel sorry for you.
Most MMO's evolve for better of worse, I'm not a bitter vet but I've read about some of the things that angered players to no end IE Incarna and I can assure you this will not be one of them. HTFU as they say and train all you can before the xpac hits so you be closer to where you think you need to be.
or just biomass... |
Anne Dieu-le-veut
State War Academy Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 11:42:00 -
[322] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:
U are not very smart are u? My character is just 2 months old.
I see you didn't comment on my post, so maybe you missed it, just don't have an intelligent reply, or are indeed just trolling, but I'll repost it just in case you missed it:
Anne Dieu-le-veut wrote:OP, your character was created a week before me. I will have all necessary skills trained to take advantage of the BC/Destroyer 5 changes with about 16 days to spare, and I trained enough before embarking on that skill plan that I'm not a total gimp in the mean time. I can even fly mining barges if I wanted to. Your lack of planning does not constitute unfairness on CCP's part. TL, DR version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLdBrx-ijwQ
You had plenty of time to train up for these changes. Odds, are you have enough SPs in some of the skills already that you could still get your training done in time if you wanted to. I guess it's just easier to cry on the forums instead.
i'm hoping this is a case of successful troll is successful instead of being a self-entitled crybaby. |
Abraham Nalelmir
FATAL Warfare
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 11:45:00 -
[323] - Quote
More simple: I have: (I can fly Coercer) Destroyers 5
Amarr frigate 5 Gellente frigate 0 Minmatar frigate 0 Caldari frigate 0
What will I get: AMARR destroyer 5 GALLENTE destroyer 0 MINMATAR destroyer 0 CALDARI destroyer 0
AND
AMARR frigate 5 GALLENTE frigate 0 MINMATAR frigate 0 CALDARI frigate 0
*** I WILL STILL CAN FLY COERCER ***** ONLY ***** ***
If I have: (I can fly Harbinger) Battlecruiser 5
AMARR cruiser 5 GALLENTE cruiser 0 MINMATAR cruiser 0 CALDARI cruiser 0
I will get:
AMARR BATTLECRUISER 5 GALLENTE BATTLECRUISER 0 MINMATAR BATTLECRUISER 0 CALDARI BATTLECRUISER 0
AND
AMARR cruiser 5 GALLENTE cruiser 0 MINMATAR cruiser 0 CALDARI cruiser 0
*** I CAN STILL FLY ***** ONLY ***** HARBINGER ***
So I'm not sure how people understand that we are getting """FREE""" extra SP!, I'm not getting FREE SP, I'm getting what I already have ONLY Newbie?, want to shoot ships? see here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=169575 |
Daimon Kaiera
Kraken.
241
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 12:08:00 -
[324] - Quote
It's probably been said before but,
"Inb4 OP just wants free Sp to distribute into other crap and doesn't give two ***** about BC and destroyers in actuality."
Hell, even I wish I could exclude the gallente and minmatar BC free Sp to put in something else.
But that'd be a stupid thing for CCP to do.
And they won't. Here by talk start if go able? |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
229
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 12:21:00 -
[325] - Quote
I started a new character today. By my maths, I will make BC V before the Summer expansion hits. If I am off, it's not by much. Yes, I am using a booster. Will be using implants, and will be using a remap, then my bonus remaps to get back and do the core skills.
But.... Thats from today. You found out about this change before today, and probably already have some of it trained. So there is no reason you couldn't make it either at the point you found out about it.
Also, as has been pointed out, the characters do not 'gain' anything. They fly the same ships at the same skills they could before the summer expansion. |
Anne Dieu-le-veut
State War Academy Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 12:36:00 -
[326] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:I started a new character today. By my maths, I will make BC V before the Summer expansion hits. If I am off, it's not by much. Yes, I am using a booster. Will be using implants, and will be using a remap, then my bonus remaps to get back and do the core skills.
But.... Thats from today. You found out about this change before today, and probably already have some of it trained. So there is no reason you couldn't make it either at the point you found out about it.
Also, as has been pointed out, the characters do not 'gain' anything. They fly the same ships at the same skills they could before the summer expansion.
I had an earlier post yesterday where EVEMon showed a brand new character with no implants and no remap would take just over 60 days to train, and just over 52 days with +3s and no remap (since +3 are reasonable for even a new player), so in this case, they wouldn't make it. My EVEMon-fu is not good enough yet to compute 2 weeks of +9s in addition to whatever implants you will use, but it will be interesting to see if you make it. However, OP was created Feb 25th, so they had plenty of time, even with no implants.
Technically, I will be gaining 6,144,000 SP. Unfortunately, these skill points will not enable me to do anything I already can't do. All I will be "getting" is a much more expensive clone replacement price.
|
Royal Executioner Shazih
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 12:43:00 -
[327] - Quote
Thank you for responses. Some of you called me moron/thick-headed/fail-planner etc others gave in-depth explanations which I additionally thank for Now let me sort it out.
1. I myself (actually training it) might get it on time (or even if not be short like 4-5 days). I hope it is clear. But people who just started or will start playing a bit later wont.
2. Do those who train DD V and BC V gain any free SP? No! Do they gain from newer player perspective? Yes! Let's consider an example: Let's assume (hypothetically) that US collapses into separate states in 2030. And everyone who was born before 2030 gain universal residency permit (can settle and resettle anywhere anytime within old US) and let's call it 'old rights'. Those who were born after 2030 gain only 1-state residency (can settle only within 1 state). Did anything change for older citizens? Did they get any free rights? No. Nothing changed for them. Do the younger citizens feel the same? No! And guess what? One guy says: 'let's make a law so that younger people can live in bordering states too' (to equal the rights a bit). Everyone replies: 'No! We didn't get any free rights and you won't too" Do you understand now how absurd your 'I can fly the same ships as before' claim sound? Let's expand it to EVE. Let's say we get new skilltree called 'special access'. All current players will be granted all 4 racial trees. But those who start playing later would have to train say Mintamar access to access Mintamar space etc. Did we gat any free SP? No. Does the new player feel the same? I doubt it, because he is restricted to 1/4 of high sec. And again 1 guys says 'let's make at least ally space accessible (Amarr and Caldari for example). And you all again say no? No free SP, right?
Hopefully that clarifies something. Of course here most of players already trained DD V and BC V and dont give a damn about others. They believe that their point of view is correct and absolute. They have right to think so. But I hope that at least some of you will listen to voice of reason |
J1LT
Interstella Misfits
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 12:53:00 -
[328] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:
Let's assume (hypothetically) that US collapses into separate states in 2030. And everyone who was born before 2030 gain universal residency permit (can settle and resettle anywhere anytime within old US) and let's call it 'old rights'. Those who were born after 2030 gain only 1-state residency (can settle only within 1 state). Did anything change for older citizens? Did they get any free rights? No. Nothing changed for them. Do the younger citizens feel the same? No! And guess what? One guy says: 'let's make a law so that younger people can live in bordering states too' (to equal the rights a bit). Everyone replies: 'No! We didn't get any free rights and you won't too" Do you understand now how absurd your 'I can fly the same ships as before' claim sound?
Well with that train of thought i should be allowed to drive up to a 7.5 ton vehicle as the generation before me can.
Things change!
I got my driving license AFTER a change so therefore do not get 'grandad' rights and have to do a separate test for 7.5 ton and bigger.
Do i feel i need to write to the DVLA (British driving authority) and ask for some compensation as others before me have some thing i do not. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13798
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 12:58:00 -
[329] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:1. I myself (actually training it) might get it on time (or even if not be short like 4-5 days). I hope it is clear. But people who just started or will start playing a bit later wont. GǪand that is just the nature of evolving games where new skills are added: people who have played longer have more, and people who start later have more skills to wade through.
Quote:Do you understand now how absurd your 'I can fly the same ships as before' claim sound? No. Largely because your scenario doesn't reflect what's going on in the game: that everyone gets the same deal. All that's happening is a bit of time shifting, and the only GÇ£strangeGÇ¥ thing about it is that unlike with most additions, this shift does not happen on patch day but roughly one month before. So how is it in any way absurd that the status quo is retained? That no-one gains or loses any abilities? Or, more relevantly, how is this status quo more absurd than saying that just because some people retained their abilities, all the others should be given tons more?
Quote:Hopefully that clarifies something. Yes, it clarifies that you are unduly focused on an irrelevant stat: SP. The only thing that matters is ability, and abilities remains completely untouched.
Quote:But I hope that at least some of you will listen to voice of reason Sure. Could you give a reason why some people should be given new abilities just because others retain theirs? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
206
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 13:19:00 -
[330] - Quote
Miles Harker wrote: My intention was to beeline the +5S but this change for odyssey changed that.
Of course I'm going to buy a PLEX when im going to get 6m million additional skill points which is what 3-4 months of subscription charges?
You'd be daft not too...
Smart guy. ^ It's good to see players thinking ahead so early in the game. Perhaps your thinking a little too far ahead though and will lose some enjoyment of the game, so one piece of advice I would give is to set aside some time to train up some skills which will give you some immediate effect alongside the long term planning. What your doing kind of reminds me of how I first started the game, and one regret I have was pinning myself a little to strongly to a long term goal without having the space to train for shorter term immediate goals which came into my mind. |
|
Velicitia
Nex Exercitus
1425
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 13:24:00 -
[331] - Quote
thing is, your comparison for 2 is flawed in that you're talking about access to space/land.
Older players are not getting anything that the newer players cannot get. CCP's not locking you into (or out of) anything after the patch.
A better example (still horribly flawed) is that
1. US changes driving laws in 2014 that you need a "standard transmission" license if you want to drive a car with standard (manual) transmission. 2. anyone with a current licence is granted "std transmission" license, provided that they own/lease a car with a standard transmission. 3. anyone who isn't licensed by 01/01/14 (or doesn't have a std transmission car) defaults to the "automatic transmission only" license, but can test to have the "full" license.
That's all that CCP is changing/adding with the skill change things.
After this patch, you're "encouraged" by the skill trees to stick more with one race -- not that you're encouraged these days to train everything -- specialization >>>>>>>>> versatility.
For example, I could only fly an Oneiros for months before I even considered being ready (support-skills wise) to fly any of the other logi boats. Amarr was the easiest (just needed energy transfers), but Basi/Scimi took forever (shield tanking, remote shield xfer, etc). One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia Malcanis for CSM8 |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
206
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 13:24:00 -
[332] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Quote:complains bitterly when people point out your error. How do u detect my bitterness? Telepathy? More likely just a bold phrase (all your phrases are bold actually)
I wonder how on earth anyone could confuse you for being bitter, to me you come across as a happy little butterfly. :)
|
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
206
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 13:30:00 -
[333] - Quote
Deaconn Frostt wrote:Instead of trying to give reasons why you haven't trained them start looking into possibilities that will get them trained. By getting these trained you will save yourself about 90 days worth of training on all the iv and v racial cruiser training by my calculations, correct me if I'm wrong.
What I find amusing is that you new players do not realise is that training every single racial and battlecruiser to level V is really not necessary at all especially for such young players, and in some cases it is actually detrimental as your skill clone cost is soaring.
But I can't blame you for trying to max out your skills as this knowledge comes with experience. I'm only sticking to two of the racial BC myself as have no need for the other two. My suggestion would be to go for level IV on each skill, that will give you more that enough benefit and you will still be capable of flying each BC if you wish for a fraction of the time. Then you can train soemthing which is actually fun. :) |
De'Veldrin
East India Ore Trade The East India Co.
1344
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 13:33:00 -
[334] - Quote
silens vesica wrote:Tippia wrote:Nathalie LaPorte wrote:...except that he didn't use the word "thought", but he did use the word "bad", in the 4 sentence excerpt under discussion. GǪand it's still my view of the skill tree that was in question GÇö i.e. what I thought about it. Not that it matters, the non-sequitur is the same: GÇ£improvementGÇ¥ does not mean that it was bad before. "New and Improved" only means that the previous version was "Old and Inferior" in comparison to the updated version - This is not an absolute scale, but a relative one.
I have never liked that phrase - New and Improved. If it's New, it's never existed in it's current form before, so how can it be improved? And if you're improving it, doesn't that mean that it was already new at some some previous point in time?
I think the issue is that people are fixated on that word new. New is cool, new is shiny, new is what all the cool kids want. Improved implies it was bad before, when in reality it was only, as pointed out, relatively worse than the existing product.
Also, this thread is now about Bacon and Eggs. (Thanks Tippia, now I'm hungry). Malcanis for CSM 8
Eve Online: The full-contact sport for your brain. Twitter --á@DeVeldrin |
flakeys
Arkham Innovations Paper Tiger Coalition
1020
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 13:36:00 -
[335] - Quote
So changes are made for the benefit of the noobs ....and then we get a noob complaining about how us veterans want it all our way and how this change SO much benefits us.
That alone wasn't enough offcourse , no the OP needed to be one of the most stubborn posters on the forum and keep shouting how unfair it is to the noobs.
These are the times where i want to give the new players the ''old playstyle'' again.Just to show how much it all changed to make it a crapload better for new players.
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
|
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1425
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 13:36:00 -
[336] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Abraham Nalelmir wrote:1- I am a new player, I dropped all my Guardian plans, T2 large guns plans, even I delayed hull upgrades 5 just to train BC to 5 2- They "decided" they are responsible for their decision 3- Giving them 2 million SP FREE to allocate anywhere is not fair for me, I who spent 1.5 months maxing out BC & Destroyers with all racial frigates/cruisers skills
I have joined after the titan nerf and after caps were kicked out of high sec, am I entitled to have a titan and a cap in my starting home system? U still get 6mil SP, which is way better than 2. You still don't get it. Those 6 mil SP are locked up - in skills that give him nothing new. You still think those 6 mil SP are going to give an advantage that he doesn't already possess - which is false. SP mean nothing. Ability to fly ships means something. Guess which won't have changed?
Hammer this through your thick head: He will be able to do nothing new with those points, and they will give him precisely the same abilities he has today, and nothing else.
You must be either an incredibly capable troll, or utterly obtuse if you can't understand that.
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote: League of legends only and always helps newer players by slowly cutting advantages of older players. LoL would be the same as EVE if everyone who starts playing that game is forced to purchase characters in their release order. Do u think anyone would play it? Supporting newer players is the only viable option as older players get bored by the game/change lifestyle etc. CCP on the other hand does the opposite. EVE growing year by year. But who are they? New players? Returnig? Alts? LoL has over 30 mil accounts. Can u remind me how much ever-growing EVE has?
League of Legends =! EVE Online
What applies to one game means nothing in the other. That should be clear even to you.
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote: The amount of approving posts here does not imply anything. I'll gain more support as time X comes closer.
No. You'll only gain increasing amounts of contempt. Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13802
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 13:45:00 -
[337] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:A better example (still horribly flawed) is that
1. US changes driving laws in 2014 that you need a "standard transmission" license if you want to drive a car with standard (manual) transmission. 2. anyone with a current licence is granted "std transmission" license, provided that they own/lease a car with a standard transmission. 3. anyone who isn't licensed by 01/01/14 (or doesn't have a std transmission car) defaults to the "automatic transmission only" license, but can test to have the "full" license.
That's all that CCP is changing/adding with the skill change things. Hell, you can even keep the fractured-state scenario:
1. US gets split into UCAS, CAS, NAN and CFS in 2017 after the treaty of Denver. 2. All old US permanent residents are granted quadruple residencies by default, and can thus travel freely just like before. 3. Anyone wanting to become a resident after 2017 has to go the respective embassies to apply for the full set of permanent residencies so they can travel freely too.
The only difference is that the old geezers got it in the mail, whereas the poor newbies have to make those trips to the embassies (which the old ones had to do too, at some point, btw). Oh, and the old guys will have to carry around extra leafs in their old passports to signify this new and complicated setup GÇö something the old passports were not always designed for, and which makes them break more often.
De'Veldrin wrote:I have never liked that phrase - New and Improved. If it's New, it's never existed in it's current form before, so how can it be improved? And if you're improving it, doesn't that mean that it was already new at some some previous point in time? Just mentally inject the word GÇ£versionGÇ¥ and it all works out. Nothing is ever new these days GÇö it's all just revisions (good and bad) of the old. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
206
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 13:48:00 -
[338] - Quote
Miles Harker wrote:Quote: Using +3 implants you'd only gain 350k fewer skillpoints, which is about 1 weeks worth of sub time.
I liken this change to learning skills, you think you're gaining skp by focusing on one thing. However, the best way to gain skillpoints is to enjoy the game so that you don't quit. I've learned this the hard way.
The character bazaar can be used to effectively buy skillpoints if you get good at making ISK.
I don't think I'm gaining skill points; I am gaining skill points and therefore time. Fact. I agree with you that you should do what you enjoy, not try min/max for the sake of it. It is a game. However, my personal circumstances, work etc. and my "long term" view on EVE accommodates the approach I'm currently taking with my skill plan. But that might not necessarily be the right choice for others. Here is one tip which I think may come in useful to you and also many new players who are focusing on long term planning. Something to remember about +5 implants is that a full set of +5 implants is the equivalent price of a PLEX which is a month of training time. I worked this out a long time ago, but basically if you install two +5 implants, one for the primary attribute and one for the secondary attribute, it will take roughly one year of extra training to be as cost efficient as simply buying a PLEX. And this is assuming that your +5 implants actually last for year.
If your looking at a full set of +5 implants then your talking over 2 years of training to match the cost efficiency of simply buying a PLEX.
If you are not concerned about money and have lots of real life money to burn or are very successful at making isk in the game then you can obviously get both. But to play this game smart it is good to think in terms of the opportunity costs of what you are doing despite +5s initially seeming like a good option. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13803
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 14:01:00 -
[339] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:Here is one tip which I think may come in useful to you and also many new players who are focusing on long term planning. Something to remember about +5 implants is that a full set of +5 implants is the equivalent price of a PLEX which is a month of training time. I worked this out a long time ago, but basically if you install two +5 implants, one for the primary attribute and one for the secondary attribute, it will take roughly one year of extra training to be as cost efficient as simply buying a PLEX. And this is assuming that your +5 implants actually last for year. GǪand then there's the whole training time vs. speed gain to consider. It's not quite as large an affect as the ISK, but it's one to consider nevertheless.
The difference in skill training between +3 and +5 implants is 767,250 SP, and that training earns you a training speed increase of 180 more SP per hour (assuming you get a set that always cover what you're going to train). That means it takes 4260 hours / 177 days to earn back the time spent on training the Cybernetics skill. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1425
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 14:02:00 -
[340] - Quote
De'Veldrin wrote: Also, this thread is now about Bacon and Eggs. (Thanks Tippia, now I'm hungry).
Heh. Now I am, too.
Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
|
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
209
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 14:03:00 -
[341] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Thank you for responses. Some of you called me moron/thick-headed/fail-planner etc others gave in-depth explanations which I additionally thank for to voice of reason
And both were correct.
No problem for the responses it is our pleasure. I won't bother reading the rest of your post and will assume you have realised that you were behaving like a self entitled baby, and you have calmed down now we have pointed out to you that you can still achieve BC and Dest if you stop complaining on the forums and play the game. |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
209
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 14:11:00 -
[342] - Quote
Tippia wrote:GǪand then there's the whole training time vs. speed gain to consider. It's not quite as large an affect as the ISK, but it's one to consider nevertheless.
The difference in skill training between +3 and +5 implants is 767,250 SP, and that training earns you a training speed increase of 180 more SP per hour (assuming you get a set that always cover what you're going to train). That means it takes 4260 hours / 177 days to earn back the time spent on training the Cybernetics skill.
Yes that is true. I deliberately left out the speed gain as I feel the isk factor is much more important for new players unless they are bankrolling themselves with real life cash.
But yes, if you work out the speed gain you are achieving roughly a month of extra SP over the course of one year over having +3s. And then you have to negate the cost of the cybernetics training time also. My maths is a little hazy as I worked it out a long time ago but I think that is roughly correct. |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1425
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 14:21:00 -
[343] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote: But basically - new players should stick with +4s for the first year in my advice unless they can afford to bank roll themselves with real life cash, and even then they could better spend the isk on lots of new ships when their old ones get blown up.
I've been around a lot longer than a year, and I *still* stick with +4s. Because the extra training speed the +5s grant simply isn't as important as what I'm doing day-to-day. I can use the ISK that +5s cost elsewhere to better effect, and I have no pressing need to learn skills faster than I already do.
I'm sure some will think I'm 'doing it wrong' but I really don't see the need. Just like there are a lot of skills that I'll never train to 'V', as well. Cost/benefit just isn't there for me.
Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
Royal Executioner Shazih
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 14:32:00 -
[344] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Thank you for responses. Some of you called me moron/thick-headed/fail-planner etc others gave in-depth explanations which I additionally thank for to voice of reason And both were correct. No problem for the responses it is our pleasure. I won't bother reading the rest of your post and will assume you have realised that you were behaving like a self entitled baby, and you have calmed down now we have pointed out to you that you can still achieve BC and Dest if you stop complaining on the forums and play the game.
Nice trolling try. Try harder next time |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
1644
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 14:40:00 -
[345] - Quote
Tippia wrote:
1. US gets split into UCAS, CAS, NAN and CFS in 2017 after the treaty of Denver.
Yea, but then you gotta decide if your going to be a Mage or a Shaman. Good thing is that Tir Tairngire is a great place to Vacation in the summer.. |
Hemmo Paskiainen
Aliastra Gallente Federation
409
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 14:45:00 -
[346] - Quote
Whine
Whine
Whine
Just make some isk and buy another character.... it is not that hard....most people are just toooo lazy to think & plan ahead to make isk.
Get off your lazy but, go figur out stuff, and use those grey braincells for other stuff than whining to get free stuff
SAD CCP FIX BLACK OPS FFS
[url]http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/9679/whatihavedoneineve.jpg[/url] |
Jonah Gravenstein
Khalkotauroi Defence Labs
8096
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 14:48:00 -
[347] - Quote
Next thing you know the OP will be complaining that old people get a pension paid to them regularly, and that it's hideously unfair that newborns don't. OP can GTFO my lawn. A war hasn't been fought this badly since Olaf the Hairy, High Chief of all the Vikings, accidentally ordered 80,000 battle helmets with the horns on the inside. |
Ra Jackson
CRIMINALS IN ACTION
171
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 15:05:00 -
[348] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote: Let's say we get new skilltree called 'special access'. All current players will be granted all 4 racial trees.
NO! Current players will be granted access to the trees THEY HAVE ALREADY SKILLED. So they already put effort to get there. New players didn't.
Hilarious comparison btw. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
2645
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 15:13:00 -
[349] - Quote
With the game being around for 10 years, it's quite possible that the older players have something in their generation that the younger players do not have in their upbringing.
It known as being told "NO" as a toddler.
|
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1426
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 15:16:00 -
[350] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:With the game being around for 10 years, it's quite possible that the older players have something in their generation that the younger players do not have in their upbringing.
It known as being told "NO" as a toddler.
AKA "Parenting Tool #1."
Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
|
Royal Executioner Shazih
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 15:21:00 -
[351] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:With the game being around for 10 years, it's quite possible that the older players have something in their generation that the younger players do not have in their upbringing.
It known as being told "NO" as a toddler.
But u keep forgetting that u and other so-called 'older' players do not decide anything and will never do. So your "no' is as meaningless as shoting the breeze. But. yes, thinking otherwise makes u more significant in your own eyes. Good job. And comparing me to a toddle only shoes how ill-mannered and rotten u are. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Khalkotauroi Defence Labs
8096
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 15:24:00 -
[352] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote: But u keep forgetting that u and other so-called 'older' players do not decide anything and will never do. So your "no' is as meaningless as shoting the breeze. But. yes, thinking otherwise makes u more significant in your own eyes. Good job. And comparing me to a toddle only shoes how ill-mannered and stupid u are.
Start acting and posting like an adult, then maybe we won't treat you like a impudent child. We're simply calling it as we see it. A war hasn't been fought this badly since Olaf the Hairy, High Chief of all the Vikings, accidentally ordered 80,000 battle helmets with the horns on the inside. |
Virginia Virdana
Envoy Fast Deployment
47
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 15:25:00 -
[353] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:
But u keep forgetting that u and other so-called 'older' players do not decide anything and will never do. So your "no' is as meaningless as shoting the breeze. But. yes, thinking otherwise makes u more significant in your own eyes. Good job. And comparing me to a toddle only shoes how ill-mannered and rotten u are.
Just to be clear, all we are doing here is telling you EXACTLY what any dev would tell you. CCPs policy on skill point reimbursement is very, very clear. It only happens in the event that a skill is completely removed form the game e.g. training skills.
Also: *you *you *shooting *But, yes, *you *toddler *shows *you It's also considered bad form to start a sentence with "and". They say never come to a gunfight armed with a knife.You appear to have come armed with a spoon. |
Caxton Verticorda
Empyrean Warriors Insidious Empire
4
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 15:26:00 -
[354] - Quote
If you start training now there is enough time to get Battlecruisers 5 and Destroyers 5 before the changes hit. (Probably a repost since I cba to read through every other post, but hey.) |
Velicitia
Nex Exercitus
1425
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 15:36:00 -
[355] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Velicitia wrote:A better example (still horribly flawed) is that
1. US changes driving laws in 2014 that you need a "standard transmission" license if you want to drive a car with standard (manual) transmission. 2. anyone with a current licence is granted "std transmission" license, provided that they own/lease a car with a standard transmission. 3. anyone who isn't licensed by 01/01/14 (or doesn't have a std transmission car) defaults to the "automatic transmission only" license, but can test to have the "full" license.
That's all that CCP is changing/adding with the skill change things. Hell, you can even keep the fractured-state scenario: 1. US gets split into UCAS, CAS, NAN and CFS in 2017 after the treaty of Denver. 2. All old US permanent residents are granted quadruple residencies by default, and can thus travel freely just like before. 3. Anyone wanting to become a resident after 2017 has to go the respective embassies to apply for the full set of permanent residencies so they can travel freely too.
... why is it in each of those factions, I'm trying to cram "Caldari" in there somehow? One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia Malcanis for CSM8 |
Jonah Gravenstein
Khalkotauroi Defence Labs
8097
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 15:38:00 -
[356] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:
... why is it in each of those factions, I'm trying to cram "Caldari" in there somehow?
Because the US has "all ze missiles"? A war hasn't been fought this badly since Olaf the Hairy, High Chief of all the Vikings, accidentally ordered 80,000 battle helmets with the horns on the inside. |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1426
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 15:40:00 -
[357] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:With the game being around for 10 years, it's quite possible that the older players have something in their generation that the younger players do not have in their upbringing.
It known as being told "NO" as a toddler.
But u keep forgetting that u and other so-called 'older' players do not decide anything and will never do. So your "no' is as meaningless as shoting the breeze. But. yes, thinking otherwise makes u more significant in your own eyes. Good job. And comparing me to a toddle only shoes how ill-mannered and stupid u are. You're still whining for a CCP 'official' answer? It was already given. Repeatedly. Why do you think your pushy, immature, childish tantrum is going to get you anything else?
My eight-year old could parse this stuff better than you can. Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
Manny Moons
New Order Logistics CODE.
55
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 16:17:00 -
[358] - Quote
Tippia wrote:... 1. US gets split into UCAS, CAS, NAN and CFS in 2017 after the treaty of Denver. 2. All old US permanent residents are granted quadruple residencies by default, and can thus travel freely just like before. 3. Anyone wanting to become a resident after 2017 has to go the respective embassies to apply for the full set of permanent residencies so they can travel freely too.
Man, I gotta get my nose out of EVE and watch the news. I didn't know about any of this.
|
Kalanaja
Dog Nation United ProtoStar Federation
36
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 16:23:00 -
[359] - Quote
The only thing they are doing is making it so people that can already pilot those ships in the lines that are getting changed can continue without having to go back from square one almost. Meaning if they have Destroyers 5 and the other skills required for all the Interdictors, then they'll be able to still pilot them after the change. The same applies with anyone that has BC 5. Yes, technically they get free sp. However, that sp just means a higher clone cost and in the end really doesn't matter that much because whatever particular interdictor or command ship they use now, they'll continue to most likely use afterwards. It really only majorly effects the Interdictor and the Command Ship pilots. If you have the Destroyer skills and the BC skills for the tech1 version for all races and can pilot them now. You'll still be able to pilot them afterwards. It's nothing to cry over. A rookie two or three month character is a bit ways from being effective in an interdictor, and nowhere to really even making a command ship active. If anything the changes actually help a new player some. Especially if the rookie plans on hopping into an Orca. |
Abraham Nalelmir
FATAL Warfare
3
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 16:24:00 -
[360] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Thank you for responses. Some of you called me moron/thick-headed/fail-planner etc others gave in-depth explanations which I additionally thank for. Now let me sort it out.
1. I myself (actually training it) might get it on time (or even if not be short like 4-5 days). I hope it is clear. But people who just started or will start playing a bit later wont.
Well, people who joined now, I'm not sure what is bad for them 2-3 weeks of training they can get racial frigates to 4, racial cruisers to 3, destroyers to 5, and battlecruisers to 4 Then they can fly every battlecruiser for every race, as well as every destroyer
IT IS NOT MANDATORY TO GET EVERYTHING ON 5
People who joined after the patch will be same as the people who heard about the mighty 7 HAM drake then they joined to find it 6 HAM drake few months ago!!
I'm not sure where is the problem here, why you make a problem out of nothing? new people won't have anything bad about that... but on the other hand, WE <- the ones who trained those to 5 will have to PAY MORE ISK on a clone, and if some of us forgot to upgrade his clone before the patch or directly after the patch then get podded then we are pretty much F'ED because we WILL LOSE ALL AND EVERYTHING related to these 2 skills (will be 8 skills by then) so WE NEED TO SPEND FROM 3 TO 4 MONTHS TRAINING THAT AGAIN Newbie?, want to shoot ships? see here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=169575 |
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13807
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 16:25:00 -
[361] - Quote
Manny Moons wrote:Tippia wrote:... 1. US gets split into UCAS, CAS, NAN and CFS in 2017 after the treaty of Denver. 2. All old US permanent residents are granted quadruple residencies by default, and can thus travel freely just like before. 3. Anyone wanting to become a resident after 2017 has to go the respective embassies to apply for the full set of permanent residencies so they can travel freely too.
Man, I gotta get my nose out of EVE and watch the news. I didn't know about any of this. You probably missed the 2001 Shiawase decision, too, which made corporations extraterritorial so they can raise their own armies and shoot runners on sight. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Ivoto
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
17
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 16:25:00 -
[362] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Hi everyone. Probably my post will bring a lot of criticism but I want to make a point. Due to ship skills revamp people who train Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V are going to get around 6mil SP. That is fine. But players who dont do that will get nothing.
I propose that players who decided not to train the mentioned skill get partial recompensation (say 30% of the max possible skills). For example, if someone gets zero additional SP from summer expansion he qualifies for 6x0.3 = 2m free SP to allocate. If the player gets 2m SP from summer expansion he qualifies for (6-2)x0.3 = 1,3m free SP to allocate etc.
Some of u will object because we all knew that in advance and could train Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V. BUT while for older players 20-30 days of training is nothing newer players cant afford to spend so much time on 1-2 skills. It gives unfair advantage to older players and players who already have Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V over newer player.
That's why I propose recompensation.
Even though you're a fellow Blue Bro:
No.
|
Royal Executioner Shazih
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 16:29:00 -
[363] - Quote
silens vesica wrote:Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:With the game being around for 10 years, it's quite possible that the older players have something in their generation that the younger players do not have in their upbringing.
It known as being told "NO" as a toddler.
But u keep forgetting that u and other so-called 'older' players do not decide anything and will never do. So your "no' is as meaningless as shoting the breeze. But. yes, thinking otherwise makes u more significant in your own eyes. Good job. And comparing me to a toddle only shoes how ill-mannered and stupid u are. You're still whining for a CCP 'official' answer? It was already given. Repeatedly. Why do you think your pushy, immature, childish tantrum is going to get you anything else? My eight-year old could parse this stuff better than you can.
Grow up. Then talk to me. And leave your [whining] slang among your teen fellows |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1031
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 16:36:00 -
[364] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Grow up. Then talk to me. And leave your [whining] slang among your teen fellows No. U grow up. Then talk to me. |
De'Veldrin
East India Ore Trade The East India Co.
1352
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 16:38:00 -
[365] - Quote
I am guessing it's about time for the mods to lock this - I think all useful discussion has already been wrung from this thread. Malcanis for CSM 8
Eve Online: The full-contact sport for your brain. Twitter --á@DeVeldrin |
Royal Executioner Shazih
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 16:41:00 -
[366] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Grow up. Then talk to me. And leave your [whining] slang among your teen fellows No. U grow up. Then talk to me.
What makes u think that I have a slightest desire to talk to u lol? Are u an angry alt of those who already wrote here or an independent character who decided to earn some fame by posting in this thread? |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1428
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 16:45:00 -
[367] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote: Grow up. Then talk to me. And leave your [whining] slang among your teen fellows
Ah, the "I know you are, but what am I?" response. I think Pee Wee Herman used that one best. You've managed a pathetic, pale, pale ghost of an imitation of Paul Reubens' deilvery.
So - you've been pidgeon-holed pretty thoroughly. By your own words, no less. Heh.
De'Veldrin wrote:I am guessing it's about time for the mods to lock this - I think all useful discussion has already been wrung from this thread. Yup. Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
Royal Executioner Shazih
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 16:49:00 -
[368] - Quote
Quote:silens vesica wrote:[quote=Royal Executioner Shazih] Grow up. Then talk to me. And leave your [whining] slang among your teen fellows Ah, the "I know you are, but what am I?" response. I think Pee Wee Herman used that one best. You've managed a pathetic, pale, pale ghost of an imitation of Paul Reubens' deilvery. So - you've been pidgeon-holed pretty thoroughly. By your own words, no less. Heh.
Oh man. An unstoppable keyboard-hero is still here lol |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1428
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 16:55:00 -
[369] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:
Oh man. An unstoppable keyboard-hero is still here lol
Yup. You'd know it, too. How does it feel to fail?
Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
Velicitia
Nex Exercitus
1425
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 16:58:00 -
[370] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Velicitia wrote:
... why is it in each of those factions, I'm trying to cram "Caldari" in there somehow?
Because the US has "all ze missiles"?
I was going more along the lines of the government is for the corporations ... but that works too.
If I could give you more than 1 space-like, I would. One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia Malcanis for CSM8 |
|
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1032
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 16:58:00 -
[371] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:What makes u think that I have a slightest desire to talk to u lol? Are u an angry alt of those who already wrote here or an independent character who decided to earn some fame by posting in this thread? how would i 'earn some fame' in this useless thread? it's just one person being told repeatedly they're wrong and not getting it, then becoming abusive and insulting because they don't know how to accept they're incorrect |
Jonah Gravenstein
Khalkotauroi Defence Labs
8103
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 17:04:00 -
[372] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote: Grow up. Then talk to me. And leave your [whining] slang among your teen fellows
The only person using teen slang is yourself, all you're succeeding in doing is cementing the view we have of you as a petulant child.
A war hasn't been fought this badly since Olaf the Hairy, High Chief of all the Vikings, accidentally ordered 80,000 battle helmets with the horns on the inside. |
Royal Executioner Shazih
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 17:08:00 -
[373] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:What makes u think that I have a slightest desire to talk to u lol? Are u an angry alt of those who already wrote here or an independent character who decided to earn some fame by posting in this thread? how would i 'earn some fame' in this useless thread? it's just one person being told repeatedly they're wrong and not getting it, then becoming abusive and insulting because they don't know how to accept they're incorrect
You probably understand even if 100 people say one way and 1 person says the other way, it doesn't imply that that 1 person is incorrect. Right? I never offended anyone, but instead I got like +30 insults in this thread from players who claim to be 'adults'. At some point even a calm and rational person like me loses his patience and starts adding some sourness into the posts. |
Dave Stark
2821
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 17:17:00 -
[374] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:What makes u think that I have a slightest desire to talk to u lol? Are u an angry alt of those who already wrote here or an independent character who decided to earn some fame by posting in this thread? how would i 'earn some fame' in this useless thread? it's just one person being told repeatedly they're wrong and not getting it, then becoming abusive and insulting because they don't know how to accept they're incorrect You probably understand even if 100 people say one way and 1 person says the other way, it doesn't imply that that 1 person is incorrect. Right? I never offended anyone, but instead I got like +30 insults in this thread from players who claim to be 'adults'. At some point even a calm and rational person like me loses his patience and starts adding some sourness into the posts.
you haven't been insulted once, you've simply been told how you're acting. summed up in a word; badly. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13810
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 17:18:00 -
[375] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:I never offended anyone, GǪother than in pretty much every one of your posts from page 4 and onward.
Quote:At some point even a calm and rational person like me Oh really? Could you please calmly and rationally explain why some people should be given new abilities just because others are allowed to retain theirs?
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1033
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 17:20:00 -
[376] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:You probably understand even if 100 people say one way and 1 person says the other way, it doesn't imply that that 1 person is incorrect. Right? eighteen pages of good argument against that one person does. right? |
Ashterothi
Aideron Robotics
161
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 17:22:00 -
[377] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Angelique Duchemin wrote:Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Hi everyone. Probably my post will bring a lot of criticism but I want to make a point. Due to ship skills revamp people who train Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V are going to get around 6mil SP. That is fine. But players who dont do that will get nothing.
I propose that players who decided not to train the mentioned skill get partial recompensation (say 30% of the max possible skills). For example, if someone gets zero additional SP from summer expansion he qualifies for 6x0.3 = 2m free SP to allocate. If the player gets 2m SP from summer expansion he qualifies for (6-2)x0.3 = 1,3m free SP to allocate etc.
Some of u will object because we all knew that in advance and could train Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V. BUT while for older players 20-30 days of training is nothing newer players cant afford to spend so much time on 1-2 skills. It gives unfair advantage to older players and players who already have Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V over newer player.
That's why I propose recompensation. It's not free SP. They can fly the same ships as they could before except now their clones cost more. But y I am punished for that? Y I have to spend 4x times more than they? Because I am younger? Newer players already heavily disadvantaged
Except when I started, you had to train learning skills for maximum efficiency. And while I did get reimbursed for the sp in learning skills, I did not get sp for all the points I didn't get from not having learning skills maxed, losing out on quite a bit in the long run. You never had that problem.
And how when I started, T1 ships were mostly crap and you were functionally useless without T2 esp for things like logi. The time to fly certain ships and roles has dramatically been reduced.
That being said, I do agree the gulf of high skills vs low skills is growing. However, in this case I would say HTFU. Aideron Robotics is hiring for the Gallente Federation war effort! https://www.aideronrobotics.com/wiki/Applying |
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
3271
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 17:24:00 -
[378] - Quote
Instead of talking, you guys should start shooting him.
Then, he could make another thread whining about how unfair it is that people kill him because he has an opinion. |
flakeys
Arkham Innovations Paper Tiger Coalition
1020
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 17:28:00 -
[379] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:Instead of talking, you guys should start shooting him.
Then, he could make another thread whining about how unfair it is that people kill him because he has an opinion.
As someone whispered in my ear for this lad you'd join RvB just to shoot him over and over and over and ....
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
|
Dave Stark
2821
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 17:28:00 -
[380] - Quote
flakeys wrote:Solstice Project wrote:Instead of talking, you guys should start shooting him.
Then, he could make another thread whining about how unfair it is that people kill him because he has an opinion. As someone whispered in my ear for this lad you'd join RvB just to shoot him over and over and over and ....
the prospect is tempting. |
|
flakeys
Arkham Innovations Paper Tiger Coalition
1020
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 17:30:00 -
[381] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:flakeys wrote:Solstice Project wrote:Instead of talking, you guys should start shooting him.
Then, he could make another thread whining about how unfair it is that people kill him because he has an opinion. As someone whispered in my ear for this lad you'd join RvB just to shoot him over and over and over and .... the prospect is tempting.
Yeah gosh who would have whispered this in my allts ear in scc dave? Who oh who ....
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
|
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
209
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 17:33:00 -
[382] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:Instead of talking, you guys should start shooting him.
Then, he could make another thread whining about how unfair it is that people kill him because he has an opinion.
Hmm. This is a tempting idea and I am considering setting the OP to red now and hunting him down for eternity. But then again not sure if its worth wasting my time. Lets see what other rubbish the OP comes out with and see if I change my mind. |
Dave Stark
2821
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 17:35:00 -
[383] - Quote
flakeys wrote:Dave Stark wrote:flakeys wrote:Solstice Project wrote:Instead of talking, you guys should start shooting him.
Then, he could make another thread whining about how unfair it is that people kill him because he has an opinion. As someone whispered in my ear for this lad you'd join RvB just to shoot him over and over and over and .... the prospect is tempting. Yeah gosh who would have whispered this in my allts ear in scc dave? Who oh who ....
i have no idea... none what so ever. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4695
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 17:46:00 -
[384] - Quote
Caxton Verticorda wrote:If you start training now there is enough time to get Battlecruisers 5 and Destroyers 5 before the changes hit. (Probably a repost since I cba to read through every other post, but hey.) Only if you start NOW, are on a perfect perc/wil remap, and have +5s or are otherwise able to train at least 2700 sp/hr. Otherwise no, you'll miss it and only be able to get up to battlecruisers 4, which should still be fine for most new players. Older players should have already known about and gotten the skills they need considering they've known about this change for a very long time. Module activation timers are buggy. CCP please fix. |
Nathalie LaPorte
Republic University Minmatar Republic
128
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 17:54:00 -
[385] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Nathalie LaPorte wrote:Very simple
PGéü: Current skill system is bad. PGéé: Current skill system is better than before. C: Old skill system was bad. Fixed. So that's a yes, then, as expected. It's ok, we've already established that I realised why you were right all along and that I'm just evading the question now, constantly moving the goalposts and injecting straw men in a desperate attempt to say right. As you're so fond of saying: /discussion.
Fixed.
I agree, thank you for admitting that you were wrong, Tippia.
|
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4695
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 17:55:00 -
[386] - Quote
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:Tippia wrote:Nathalie LaPorte wrote:Very simple
PGéü: Current skill system is bad. PGéé: Current skill system is better than before. C: Old skill system was bad. Fixed. So that's a yes, then, as expected. It's ok, we've already established that I realised why you were right all along and that I'm just evading the question now, constantly moving the goalposts and injecting straw men in a desperate attempt to say right. As you're so fond of saying: /discussion. Fixed. I agree, thank you for admitting that you were wrong, Tippia. Are you just being thick, or did you really miss the sarcasm? Module activation timers are buggy. CCP please fix. |
Nathalie LaPorte
Republic University Minmatar Republic
128
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 17:57:00 -
[387] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote: Are you just being thick, or did you really miss the sarcasm?
Someone here has missed something, that's true. |
Dave Stark
2824
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 17:58:00 -
[388] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Caxton Verticorda wrote:If you start training now there is enough time to get Battlecruisers 5 and Destroyers 5 before the changes hit. (Probably a repost since I cba to read through every other post, but hey.) Only if you start NOW, are on a perfect perc/wil remap, and have +5s or are otherwise able to train at least 2700 sp/hr. Otherwise no, you'll miss it and only be able to get up to battlecruisers 4, which should still be fine for most new players. Older players should have already known about and gotten the skills they need considering they've known about this change for a very long time.
if i've read the dev post correctly it says training in progress will be paused (not refunded) so even if you did start now, you will only have a day or two left to train (multiplied by 4) so even then you have what, a week at most of training to "catch up" with? |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4696
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 18:00:00 -
[389] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Caxton Verticorda wrote:If you start training now there is enough time to get Battlecruisers 5 and Destroyers 5 before the changes hit. (Probably a repost since I cba to read through every other post, but hey.) Only if you start NOW, are on a perfect perc/wil remap, and have +5s or are otherwise able to train at least 2700 sp/hr. Otherwise no, you'll miss it and only be able to get up to battlecruisers 4, which should still be fine for most new players. Older players should have already known about and gotten the skills they need considering they've known about this change for a very long time. if i've read the dev post correctly it says training in progress will be paused (not refunded) so even if you did start now, you will only have a day or two left to train (multiplied by 4) so even then you have what, a week at most of training to "catch up" with? They changed that? This is what I last saw: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2149156#post2149156 "Only rational integers need apply." Module activation timers are buggy. CCP please fix. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13814
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 18:02:00 -
[390] - Quote
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:Fixed. Nope. You broke it again. Let's be charitable and just call it a strawman rather than outright lying and forgery. Let's also go back and repost the correct version since you have forgotten it, and see if you can get it right this time. Fiftyeleventh time is the charm, right?
PGéü: If things are bad, they can be improved. PGéé: The skill tree is getting improved, according to Tippia. C: The skill tree was bad, according to Tippia GåÉ non sequitur.
Now, would you like to take a stab at proving me wrong aboutGǪ wellGǪ anything? Or at least offer some argument towards that effect? Perhaps you would like to read up on what a GÇ£non sequiturGÇ¥ is, rather than rely on a very limited (and ultimately insufficient) dictionary definition? Maybe you can demonstrate how PGéü and PGéé actually leads to C? Or even better, how PGéé leads to C without PGéü GÇö that would be interestingGǪ
GǪor you can keep evading, further highlighting your inability to actually present a coherent argument.
I know you do. It was established ages ago that you understand what the non sequitur was and why it was one, and that you've only been trying to hide this fact ever since. That's why you have to keep moving the goalposts and inject strawmen to stay afloat.
Quote:thank you for admitting that you were wrong Non sequitur. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
|
Nathalie LaPorte
Republic University Minmatar Republic
128
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 18:05:00 -
[391] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Nathalie LaPorte wrote:Fixed. Nope. You broke it again. Let's be charitable and just call it a strawman rather than outright lying and forgery,as only I, the mighty Tippia, am allowed to change other people's quotes willy-nilly. Fixed.
good to know. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13814
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 18:08:00 -
[392] - Quote
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:Fixed. Nope. You broke it again. Let's be charitable and just call it a strawman rather than outright lying and forgery.
Let's also go back and repost the actual question at hand since you have forgotten it, and see if you can get it right this time. Fiftytwelfth time is the charm, right?
PGéü: If things are bad, they can be improved. PGéé: The skill tree is getting improved, according to Tippia. C: The skill tree was bad, according to Tippia GåÉ non sequitur.
Now, would you like to take a stab at proving me wrong aboutGǪ wellGǪ anything? Or at least offer some argument towards that effect? Perhaps you would like to read up on what a GÇ£non sequiturGÇ¥ is, rather than rely on a very limited (and ultimately insufficient) dictionary definition? Maybe you can demonstrate how PGéü and PGéé actually leads to C? Or even better, how PGéé leads to C without PGéü GÇö that would be interestingGǪ
GǪor you can keep evading, further highlighting your inability to actually present a coherent argument. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Nathalie LaPorte
Republic University Minmatar Republic
128
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 18:10:00 -
[393] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Will you attempt to have a real debate with me, even though if you do, I'll intentionally alter your quotes to make a real debate impossible, which I myself have denounced, except when I do it? Fixed.
No. |
Asxthia Strangula
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 18:12:00 -
[394] - Quote
My main trained those skills years before the change, not for a free SP reward, but because he wanted command ships and dictors.
If you want a free SP boost for being terrible....sucks for you :D |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13814
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 18:14:00 -
[395] - Quote
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:Fixed. Nope. You broke it again. Let's be charitable and just call it a strawman rather than outright lying and forgery.
Let's also go back and repost the actual question at hand since you have forgotten it, and see if you can get it right this time. Fiftythirteenth time is the charm, right?
PGéü: If things are bad, they can be improved. PGéé: The skill tree is getting improved, according to Tippia. C: The skill tree was bad, according to Tippia GåÉ non sequitur.
Now, would you like to take a stab at proving me wrong aboutGǪ wellGǪ anything? Or at least offer some argument towards that effect? Perhaps you would like to read up on what a GÇ£non sequiturGÇ¥ is, rather than rely on a very limited (and ultimately insufficient) dictionary definition? Maybe you can demonstrate how PGéü and PGéé actually leads to C? Or even better, how PGéé leads to C without PGéü GÇö that would be interestingGǪ
Oh. Ok.
Well, if you can't demonstrate that the conclusion actually follows, then I'll simply keep saying what I said from the very start GÇö that it doesn't follow; that it is a non sequitur. But you already knew this, which is why you had to keep evading, further highlighting your inability to actually present a coherent argument. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
3272
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 18:14:00 -
[396] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:Solstice Project wrote:Instead of talking, you guys should start shooting him.
Then, he could make another thread whining about how unfair it is that people kill him because he has an opinion. Hmm. This is a tempting idea and I am considering setting the OP to red now and hunting him down for eternity. But then again not sure if its worth wasting my time. Lets see what other rubbish the OP comes out with and see if I change my mind. I've considered it, but tbh i want to stay on RvBs good side and i sure as hell couldn't resist taking the pod ... |
Dave Stark
2826
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 18:15:00 -
[397] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Dave Stark wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Caxton Verticorda wrote:If you start training now there is enough time to get Battlecruisers 5 and Destroyers 5 before the changes hit. (Probably a repost since I cba to read through every other post, but hey.) Only if you start NOW, are on a perfect perc/wil remap, and have +5s or are otherwise able to train at least 2700 sp/hr. Otherwise no, you'll miss it and only be able to get up to battlecruisers 4, which should still be fine for most new players. Older players should have already known about and gotten the skills they need considering they've known about this change for a very long time. if i've read the dev post correctly it says training in progress will be paused (not refunded) so even if you did start now, you will only have a day or two left to train (multiplied by 4) so even then you have what, a week at most of training to "catch up" with? They changed that? This is what I last saw: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2149156#post2149156"Only rational integers need apply."
ah i see, i hadn't seen that quote.
only one of my alts will miss out then, oh well. it's only destroyers V i'll be sacrificing. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4696
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 18:22:00 -
[398] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Dave Stark wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Caxton Verticorda wrote:If you start training now there is enough time to get Battlecruisers 5 and Destroyers 5 before the changes hit. (Probably a repost since I cba to read through every other post, but hey.) Only if you start NOW, are on a perfect perc/wil remap, and have +5s or are otherwise able to train at least 2700 sp/hr. Otherwise no, you'll miss it and only be able to get up to battlecruisers 4, which should still be fine for most new players. Older players should have already known about and gotten the skills they need considering they've known about this change for a very long time. if i've read the dev post correctly it says training in progress will be paused (not refunded) so even if you did start now, you will only have a day or two left to train (multiplied by 4) so even then you have what, a week at most of training to "catch up" with? They changed that? This is what I last saw: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2149156#post2149156"Only rational integers need apply." ah i see, i hadn't seen that quote. only one of my alts will miss out then, oh well. it's only destroyers V i'll be sacrificing. Since you mentioned it though I think I remember seeing a post later on about getting partial skills, but I can't find it yet. Module activation timers are buggy. CCP please fix. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1036
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 18:24:00 -
[399] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Dave Stark wrote:if i've read the dev post correctly it says training in progress will be paused (not refunded) so even if you did start now, you will only have a day or two left to train (multiplied by 4) so even then you have what, a week at most of training to "catch up" with? They changed that? This is what I last saw: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2149156#post2149156"Only rational integers need apply." ah i see, i hadn't seen that quote. only one of my alts will miss out then, oh well. it's only destroyers V i'll be sacrificing. i'm not sure i'm reading your posts right. is this what you're talking about?
Quote:Partial skill training will be properly be saved and duplicated. If you are halfway between Destroyers 3 and 4 when the change hits, your progress will be properly copied to all the racial Destroyer skills you are eligible for. Skill queues having Destroyer and/or Battlecruiser in-training will be paused at the time of the change. If you expect to be away for a long time when the reimbursement hits, please make sure you donGÇÖt train either of these skills. http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/the-great-skill-change-of-blessed-2013/ |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4696
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 18:24:00 -
[400] - Quote
Nevermind, I found it: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2584445#post2584445
Also, if the OP still wants those "free skillpoints", he could, if he didn't have any frigate or cruiser skills trained, train destroyers and battlecruisers to V and he'll get them back on patch day! Module activation timers are buggy. CCP please fix. |
|
Dave Stark
2826
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 18:28:00 -
[401] - Quote
seems i was right \o/
i really should bookmark these things once i've read them. either way i think i'll sacrifice destroyers to the patch day gods still, for my purposes it's less important than battlecruisers V |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4696
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 18:31:00 -
[402] - Quote
Which I might add could be abused. If he were perc/will remapped but wanted to train some skills in int/mem for example, he could do this, get the skillpoints, and then dump it into the int/mem skills so he'd essentially get them trained to the same amount over time as if he had been remapped for them. Module activation timers are buggy. CCP please fix. |
Dave Stark
2826
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 18:37:00 -
[403] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Which I might add could be abused. If he were perc/will remapped but wanted to train some skills in int/mem for example, he could do this, get the skillpoints, and then dump it into the int/mem skills so he'd essentially get them trained to the same amount over time as if he had been remapped for them.
so in short, this actually benefits new players more than old players. train all these sp at max sp/hour then put them in to things you'd otherwise train slower, that's pretty handy for new players who need to train support skills at the same time without putting themselves at a disadvantage in comparison to older players who already have the support skills. |
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
78
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 18:38:00 -
[404] - Quote
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:Abraham Nalelmir wrote:1- I am a new player, I dropped all my Guardian plans, T2 large guns plans, even I delayed hull upgrades 5 just to train BC to 5 2- They "decided" they are responsible for their decision 3- Giving them 2 million SP FREE to allocate anywhere is not fair for me, I who spent 1.5 months maxing out BC & Destroyers with all racial frigates/cruisers skills
I have joined after the titan nerf and after caps were kicked out of high sec, am I entitled to have a titan and a cap in my starting home system? U still get 6mil SP, which is way better than 2. And to get it I had to drop my training plan. I have a T3 in my hangar I was supposed to fly two months ago with solid skills, but had to change my plan for the skill changes (and more than just BC, fitting other new T2 prereqs before perc/will remap like energy grid upgrades 5 for HAC, which I can't inject in time).
You didn't want to change your plan and want compensation. Hey I'd like 2 mil free SP on my 24-hour hero hauler alt too. And my PI *****. And my trader alt. What's that got to do with flying battlecruisers again?
But none of that matters. SP =/= XP. It's a meaningless number that makes you spend more money every time you die. As far as ability to fly something, there's a "sale" going on for those who did not already have it. It was announced months ago. Get it while quantities last.
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote: League of legends only and always helps newer players by slowly cutting advantages of older players. LoL would be the same as EVE if everyone who starts playing that game is forced to purchase characters in their release order. Do u think anyone would play it? Supporting newer players is the only viable option as older players get bored by the game/change lifestyle etc. CCP on the other hand does the opposite. EVE growing year by year. But who are they? New players? Returnig? Alts? LoL has over 30 mil accounts. Can u remind me how much ever-growing EVE has?
LoL actually has some great parallels to EvE, I'm sorry for you that you don't see them. First off, new players constantly fall behind. Every LoL champion and every EvE skill added extends the max. Every day that passes before you sign up sets you further behind.
But that's ok. You see, you don't "win" League of Legends by unlocking every single one of the ~110? characters. In fact, you can compete at the highest levels and fill any role owning no more than 30. You don't need to fly every ship in EvE. You start by training to fly a couple of well selected hulls from one race using one weapon system to fill any role. Then once you master them, you expand into other races. But first you focus on core skills. You get your fitting, capacitor, tank, weapon, etc skills up. Just as in League you get your runes and rune pages together before you start pursuing more champions.
Hey, remember that time Riot gave every existing account a free rune page? That was before you could even buy more. New accounts made after that got nothing. Man, you must have been up and down the forums about that too. And remember how people who played ranked before got Kayle unlocked for free? And how the guys that did well got Jarvan for free too? Poor new players that started right before the season ended. They should all get free money, because they didn't have enough time to level up and get enough ranked games in right? Never mind the people who already had those champs and only got a skin.
The whole "buy in order thing"... You don't need to get Frigate 5, Destroyer 5, Cruiser 5, Battlecruiser 5, Battleship 5 to fly a Dread. You do need to train them to 3 (after change), kind of like you have to buy Annie or Ashe to tide you over while you level your new account.
CCP IS supporting new players. That's the entire point of these changes. To help you pick a role/ship and get into it with solid skills faster, where you can compete equally with a 200 mil SP character flying the same ship. Because 180 mil of their SP is completely useless while flying that ship. Just like owning Lux does nothing for me while playing my poor Irelia. Better nerf the hurricane.
As for players and accounts between the two, in addition to what others have said, I'll say this. I have two eve accounts. I have 4 LoL accounts. And don't think for a second that the time based queue dodge penalties did not result in "a spike in subscriptions" when introduced.
But again, that doesn't matter. There was a sale announced. Just like limited time champion bundle offers Riot used to do. Battlecruisers and Destroyers are going up in price. Get em before the change goes in effect. Orcas are getting cheaper, so hold out if you can. Command ships are getting a limited time offer, get it while supplies last!
You don't get to whine about an early bird special on something you can't afford/don't want, then demand free money because others saved some. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4696
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 18:40:00 -
[405] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Which I might add could be abused. If he were perc/will remapped but wanted to train some skills in int/mem for example, he could do this, get the skillpoints, and then dump it into the int/mem skills so he'd essentially get them trained to the same amount over time as if he had been remapped for them. so in short, this actually benefits new players more than old players. train all these sp at max sp/hour then put them in to things you'd otherwise train slower, that's pretty handy for new players who need to train support skills at the same time without putting themselves at a disadvantage in comparison to older players who already have the support skills. Except the catch is that you can't do this if you have any frigates trained to or above level 3. You could get just the battlecruisers skill refunded if you didn't have any cruisers trained up to lvl 3. I have to leave now but when I get back later I'll do the math on how much that would save you. Module activation timers are buggy. CCP please fix. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
2648
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 18:58:00 -
[406] - Quote
I've been seeing it for almost 20 years now. You guys know the drill.
These people want to be like Mr and Mrs Office Professional and earn their money first, THEN have kids when they are like 35 or 40. So you see these people huffing and puffing after their toddlers, spoiled rotten because the kid, purely having the natural survival wiring of all little kids: the manipulation of the creatures they rely on to survive (adults) is a master at tantrums.
So the aging yuppie mommy and daddy lack the energy to deal with their kid's tantrums. (they always have just one, lest they destroy the planet in one generation you know).
The kid is seldom, if at all, told "NO".
They grow up to become adults who were never told "NO".
So when "NO" comes along, they can't deal with it.
There was also a parenting movement in the 1990s that was all about telling kids how special and smart they are, even if the kid is found playing with their own poop. This, they told, was important because if they didn't, the kid will grow up to be the next school shooter or have (OMG Horror of Horrors!!!) "a low self esteem". (I got the vapors typing that).
So now we have adults who in addition to never being told "NO", they think they are special and entitled too.
It's a bad combination, this little bubble of self-importance and entitlement. And as the world with its collapsing economy and societal decay gets funnier by the minute, it's going to be fun watching those bubbles burst and those false paradigms come down with crushing force.
For now, we just have this thread to enjoy. |
Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
373
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 19:05:00 -
[407] - Quote
10/10
You guys let them troll you for 20 pages?
|
Doc Severide
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
40
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 19:19:00 -
[408] - Quote
Georgina Parmala wrote:You don't get to whine about an early bird special on something you can't afford/don't want, then demand free money because others saved some. That's the Canadian way of doing things....
|
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1433
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 19:25:00 -
[409] - Quote
Ana Vyr wrote:10/10
You guys let them troll you for 20 pages?
Yup.
Question: When does ignorance and bone-headedness segue into full-roll troll? Somewhere along the line, I think we passed that point. Dunno where, though.
Full props for setting a hook properly - we all bit. Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
Anne Dieu-le-veut
State War Academy Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 19:27:00 -
[410] - Quote
I can't believe this thread hasn't been locked yet.
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
There was also a parenting movement in the 1990s that was all about telling kids how special and smart they are, even if the kid is found playing with their own poop. This, they told, was important because if they didn't, the kid will grow up to be the next school shooter or have (OMG Horror of Horrors!!!) "a low self esteem". (I got the vapors typing that).
The 90's? This **** is still going on today, unfortunately.
Snipped the rest of your outstanding post. |
|
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
3274
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 19:32:00 -
[411] - Quote
silens vesica wrote:Ana Vyr wrote:10/10
You guys let them troll you for 20 pages?
Yup. Question: When does ignorance and bone-headedness segue into full-roll troll? Somewhere along the line, I think we passed that point. Dunno where, though. Full props for setting a hook properly - we all bit. Except that it's not a troll. OP just *is* that way ... |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1433
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 19:34:00 -
[412] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:silens vesica wrote:Ana Vyr wrote:10/10
You guys let them troll you for 20 pages?
Yup. Question: When does ignorance and bone-headedness segue into full-roll troll? Somewhere along the line, I think we passed that point. Dunno where, though. Full props for setting a hook properly - we all bit. Except that it's not a troll. OP just *is* that way ...
Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
Sirinda
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium Kill It With Fire
165
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 19:34:00 -
[413] - Quote
Posting in troll thread.
Also, BigNo.jpg
Also, get out.
Also, HTFU.
tia *yawn* |
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
3278
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 19:39:00 -
[414] - Quote
CONCORD wrote:Dave Stark has been killed and a bounty of the sum of 2.208.514 ISK been claimed.
Woah, wtf ! |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1434
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 19:41:00 -
[415] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:CONCORD wrote:Dave Stark has been killed and a bounty of the sum of 2.208.514 ISK been claimed. Woah, wtf ! Decent numbers! Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
Dave Stark
2829
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 19:54:00 -
[416] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:CONCORD wrote:Dave Stark has been killed and a bounty of the sum of 2.208.514 ISK been claimed. Woah, wtf !
*shrug*
~elite pvp~ |
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
3280
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 19:56:00 -
[417] - Quote
I've made this wallpaper myself.
I've made it to give something back to the community of emerged desktop, which is a great shell alternative to the windows explorer. I've made a few others too, but this is one of my favourites.
Hope you like it.
http://xo.or.at/goldenrock.png (1920x1080) |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1434
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 19:57:00 -
[418] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:I've made this wallpaper myself. I've made it to give something back to the community of emerged desktop, which is a great shell alternative to the windows explorer. I've made a few others too, but this is one of my favourites. Hope you like it. http://xo.or.at/goldenrock.png (1920x1080) That's some nice imagry. Me like. Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
3280
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 20:04:00 -
[419] - Quote
silens vesica wrote:Solstice Project wrote:I've made this wallpaper myself. I've made it to give something back to the community of emerged desktop, which is a great shell alternative to the windows explorer. I've made a few others too, but this is one of my favourites. Hope you like it. http://xo.or.at/goldenrock.png (1920x1080) That's some nice imagry. Me like. Thanks. ^_^ |
flakeys
Arkham Innovations Paper Tiger Coalition
1022
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 20:10:00 -
[420] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:silens vesica wrote:Ana Vyr wrote:10/10
You guys let them troll you for 20 pages?
Yup. Question: When does ignorance and bone-headedness segue into full-roll troll? Somewhere along the line, I think we passed that point. Dunno where, though. Full props for setting a hook properly - we all bit. Except that it's not a troll. OP just *is* that way ...
I kinda sit on solstice side here .... i haz seen my share of trolls on this forum and stubborn idiots . This looks like a troll and smells like one , but for some reason i'm more inclined to think he just is THAT much of an idiot.
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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Felicity Love
STARKRAFT Joint Venture Conglomerate
517
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 20:10:00 -
[421] - Quote
.
Proud Beta Tester for "Bumping Uglies for Dummies" |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4697
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 20:17:00 -
[422] - Quote
Anne Dieu-le-veut wrote:I can't believe this thread hasn't been locked yet. Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
There was also a parenting movement in the 1990s that was all about telling kids how special and smart they are, even if the kid is found playing with their own poop. This, they told, was important because if they didn't, the kid will grow up to be the next school shooter or have (OMG Horror of Horrors!!!) "a low self esteem". (I got the vapors typing that).
The 90's? This **** is still going on today, unfortunately. Snipped the rest of your outstanding post. I was born in 1990. I was told I was smart and special. I turned out mostly okay, I think. :P Module activation timers are buggy. CCP please fix. |
Dave Stark
2829
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 20:22:00 -
[423] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Anne Dieu-le-veut wrote:I can't believe this thread hasn't been locked yet. Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
There was also a parenting movement in the 1990s that was all about telling kids how special and smart they are, even if the kid is found playing with their own poop. This, they told, was important because if they didn't, the kid will grow up to be the next school shooter or have (OMG Horror of Horrors!!!) "a low self esteem". (I got the vapors typing that).
The 90's? This **** is still going on today, unfortunately. Snipped the rest of your outstanding post. I was born in 1990. I was told I was smart and special. I turned out mostly okay, I think. :P i was also born in 1990. i'm not sure if this strengthens or weakens the argument... |
Dave Stark
2830
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 20:28:00 -
[424] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:which would save you at least 8 days.
to new players, a week is a long time. especially when you are training every random skill you can find to try new things to see if it's something you want to invest more time in to. |
Dave Stark
2830
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 20:28:00 -
[425] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:Oh geezus, RvB really should introduce some recruitment standards.
every one needs cannon fodder. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4698
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 20:28:00 -
[426] - Quote
Thomas Builder wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:I was born in 1990. I was told I was smart and special. I turned out mostly okay, I think. :P Isn't people thinking they are ok the main problem created by that parenting style? I'm more okay than I think I am. My therapist tells me so. Module activation timers are buggy. CCP please fix. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
8827
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 20:30:00 -
[427] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Anne Dieu-le-veut wrote:I can't believe this thread hasn't been locked yet. Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
There was also a parenting movement in the 1990s that was all about telling kids how special and smart they are, even if the kid is found playing with their own poop. This, they told, was important because if they didn't, the kid will grow up to be the next school shooter or have (OMG Horror of Horrors!!!) "a low self esteem". (I got the vapors typing that).
The 90's? This **** is still going on today, unfortunately. Snipped the rest of your outstanding post. I was born in 1990. I was told I was smart and special. I turned out mostly okay, I think. :P
I was born in 1972, and I spent 10 years in a hellpit of drink and depression.
Still, these things happen. Malcanis' Law:-á "Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of 'new players', that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players."
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Six Six Six
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
3
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 20:34:00 -
[428] - Quote
People have had plenty of time to train the skills that will be needed to take advantage of the changes, enough time to train them several times over.
For anyone that is new and won't have time it's just tough luck, but the changes have to be brought in sometime.
So really I think it's just the op trying it on. |
Khira Kitamatsu
523
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 20:55:00 -
[429] - Quote
What I do not understand is that people that people that trained for the Orca will not get refunded all the SP they needed to get the Orca under the old requirements - compared to the new. Ponies!-á We need more ponies! |
admiral root
Red Galaxy SpaceMonkey's Alliance
507
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 20:57:00 -
[430] - Quote
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:What I do not understand is that people that people that trained for the Orca will not get refunded all the SP they needed to get the Orca under the old requirements - compared to the new.
None of those skills are being removed from the game so there's no reason to refund the SP. No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff |
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Dave Stark
2831
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 20:57:00 -
[431] - Quote
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:What I do not understand is that people that people that trained for the Orca will not get refunded all the SP they needed to get the Orca under the old requirements - compared to the new.
here we go again.... |
Virginia Virdana
Envoy Fast Deployment
47
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 20:59:00 -
[432] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: True stuff
Villains say it best They say never come to a gunfight armed with a knife.You appear to have come armed with a spoon. |
Khira Kitamatsu
523
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 21:02:00 -
[433] - Quote
admiral root wrote:Khira Kitamatsu wrote:What I do not understand is that people that people that trained for the Orca will not get refunded all the SP they needed to get the Orca under the old requirements - compared to the new. None of those skills are being removed from the game so there's no reason to refund the SP.
The only reason I trained those skills was because it was necessary to fly the Orca. Now CCP tells me that all those skills I trained are no longer needed for the Orca. Skills I will never use. They were a waste of time. Should I not be compensated for those skills? CCP changed the requirements - not me. Why should I be penalized because CCP decides to make a change? Explain please.
Ponies!-á We need more ponies! |
Dave Stark
2831
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 21:03:00 -
[434] - Quote
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:admiral root wrote:Khira Kitamatsu wrote:What I do not understand is that people that people that trained for the Orca will not get refunded all the SP they needed to get the Orca under the old requirements - compared to the new. None of those skills are being removed from the game so there's no reason to refund the SP. The only reason I trained those skills was because it was necessary to fly the Orca. Now CCP tells me that all those skills I trained are no longer needed for the Orca. Skills I will never use. They were a waste of time. Should I not be compensated for those skills? CCP changed the requirements - not me. Why should I be penalized because CCP decides to make a change? Explain please.
remind me again what you lost with the orca skill changes?
nothing? i thought so.
move along. |
Virginia Virdana
Envoy Fast Deployment
47
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 21:04:00 -
[435] - Quote
Tippia wrote: Semantic smackdown
I would love to get involved, but you're having too much fun. Besides, I know know comedic non sequiturs. e.g.
My dog's got no nose.
How does he smell?
****ing awful They say never come to a gunfight armed with a knife.You appear to have come armed with a spoon. |
Virginia Virdana
Envoy Fast Deployment
47
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 21:05:00 -
[436] - Quote
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:admiral root wrote:Khira Kitamatsu wrote:What I do not understand is that people that people that trained for the Orca will not get refunded all the SP they needed to get the Orca under the old requirements - compared to the new. None of those skills are being removed from the game so there's no reason to refund the SP. The only reason I trained those skills was because it was necessary to fly the Orca. Now CCP tells me that all those skills I trained are no longer needed for the Orca. Skills I will never use. They were a waste of time. Should I not be compensated for those skills? CCP changed the requirements - not me. Why should I be penalized because CCP decides to make a change? Explain please.
Their game. Their rules.
Also, please search forum for epic Orca threadnaught, where this is discussed in (mind numbing) detail.
They say never come to a gunfight armed with a knife.You appear to have come armed with a spoon. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4700
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 21:07:00 -
[437] - Quote
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:admiral root wrote:Khira Kitamatsu wrote:What I do not understand is that people that people that trained for the Orca will not get refunded all the SP they needed to get the Orca under the old requirements - compared to the new. None of those skills are being removed from the game so there's no reason to refund the SP. The only reason I trained those skills was because it was necessary to fly the Orca. Now CCP tells me that all those skills I trained are no longer needed for the Orca. Skills I will never use. They were a waste of time. Should I not be compensated for those skills? CCP changed the requirements - not me. Why should I be penalized because CCP decides to make a change? Explain please. How are they a waste of time? You didn't use them when you trained them to fly an Orca. You don't use them now. You won't use them after the patch. You trained them to get what you wanted when you wanted them, and now you have it. So what's to complain about? Module activation timers are buggy. CCP please fix. |
Dave Stark
2832
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 21:08:00 -
[438] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Khira Kitamatsu wrote:admiral root wrote:Khira Kitamatsu wrote:What I do not understand is that people that people that trained for the Orca will not get refunded all the SP they needed to get the Orca under the old requirements - compared to the new. None of those skills are being removed from the game so there's no reason to refund the SP. The only reason I trained those skills was because it was necessary to fly the Orca. Now CCP tells me that all those skills I trained are no longer needed for the Orca. Skills I will never use. They were a waste of time. Should I not be compensated for those skills? CCP changed the requirements - not me. Why should I be penalized because CCP decides to make a change? Explain please. How are they a waste of time? You didn't use them when you trained them to fly an Orca. You don't use them now. You won't use them after the patch. You trained them to get what you wanted when you wanted them, and now you have it. So what's to complain about?
made bad decisions expects reimbursement for stupidity.
that's the topic of the day, why ccp should reimburse stupid. |
Khira Kitamatsu
523
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 21:09:00 -
[439] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Khira Kitamatsu wrote:admiral root wrote:Khira Kitamatsu wrote:What I do not understand is that people that people that trained for the Orca will not get refunded all the SP they needed to get the Orca under the old requirements - compared to the new. None of those skills are being removed from the game so there's no reason to refund the SP. The only reason I trained those skills was because it was necessary to fly the Orca. Now CCP tells me that all those skills I trained are no longer needed for the Orca. Skills I will never use. They were a waste of time. Should I not be compensated for those skills? CCP changed the requirements - not me. Why should I be penalized because CCP decides to make a change? Explain please. remind me again what you lost with the orca skill changes? nothing? i thought so. move along.
What did I lose? 32 days of SP skill training - skills that I do not need any longer. That is over a month of game time.
Ponies!-á We need more ponies! |
Dave Stark
2832
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 21:10:00 -
[440] - Quote
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Khira Kitamatsu wrote:admiral root wrote:Khira Kitamatsu wrote:What I do not understand is that people that people that trained for the Orca will not get refunded all the SP they needed to get the Orca under the old requirements - compared to the new. None of those skills are being removed from the game so there's no reason to refund the SP. The only reason I trained those skills was because it was necessary to fly the Orca. Now CCP tells me that all those skills I trained are no longer needed for the Orca. Skills I will never use. They were a waste of time. Should I not be compensated for those skills? CCP changed the requirements - not me. Why should I be penalized because CCP decides to make a change? Explain please. remind me again what you lost with the orca skill changes? nothing? i thought so. move along. What did I lose? 32 days of SP skill training - skills that I do not need any longer. That is over a month of game time.
no you didn't. try again. |
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Khira Kitamatsu
523
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 21:11:00 -
[441] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Khira Kitamatsu wrote:admiral root wrote:Khira Kitamatsu wrote:What I do not understand is that people that people that trained for the Orca will not get refunded all the SP they needed to get the Orca under the old requirements - compared to the new. None of those skills are being removed from the game so there's no reason to refund the SP. The only reason I trained those skills was because it was necessary to fly the Orca. Now CCP tells me that all those skills I trained are no longer needed for the Orca. Skills I will never use. They were a waste of time. Should I not be compensated for those skills? CCP changed the requirements - not me. Why should I be penalized because CCP decides to make a change? Explain please. How are they a waste of time? You didn't use them when you trained them to fly an Orca. You don't use them now. You won't use them after the patch. You trained them to get what you wanted when you wanted them, and now you have it. So what's to complain about?
They were a waste of time because CCP now deems them not necessary to fly an Orca - wasted 32 days of training for what? Skills I will never use. It is not like I wanted to train them - it was required because CCP said it was. Now they tell me - too bad - you wasted 32 days of game time training skills you'll never use in the future. That is fair to you?
Ponies!-á We need more ponies! |
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ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
2142
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 21:13:00 -
[442] - Quote
Forum Rules wrote: Ranting is prohibited. A rant is a post that is often filled with angry and counterproductive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and is helpful in development of the game and community. Rants are disruptive, and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise and clear manner while avoiding going off on rambling tangents.
Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.
Post constructively.
Negative feedback can be very useful to further improve EVE Online provided that it is presented in a civil and factual manner. All users are encouraged to honestly express their feelings regarding EVE Online and how it can be improved. Posts that are non-constructive, insulting or in breach of the rules will be deleted regardless of how valid the ideas behind them may be. Users are also reminded that posting with a lack of content also constitutes non-constructive posting.
Locked for multiple breaches of the above rules. ISD Suvetar Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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