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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 48 post(s) |

Haulie Berry
606
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 20:29:00 -
[91] - Quote
Amy Garzan wrote:Do not like that we are not reimbursed for multiplier change.
Too bad. Skills change without reimbursement all the time.
Quote:Do not like that you have to launch 7 probes
There might be a valid complaint here, but I'm going to play with it before I get my **** in a twist over it.
Quote:Do not like that you effectively have to use addon mods to get the same results that used to get with pure skills.
There's no indication that this is the case.
Also, people complaining about virtue being rendered "useless" should think more and post less. |

Haulie Berry
606
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 20:31:00 -
[92] - Quote
dp |

Moth Eisig
The Trident Brotherhood
5
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 20:41:00 -
[93] - Quote
Amy Garzan wrote:Do not like that we are not reimbursed for multiplier change.
Bonuses are just moving from the secondary skills to astrometrics. There's no need for reimbursement.
Amy Garzan wrote:Do not like that you effectively have to use addon mods to get the same results that used to get with pure skills.
That's just . . . wrong. |

Noztra Ernaga
m o t i o n
2
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 20:51:00 -
[94] - Quote
So no more cherry-picking of 4/10? If yes, in that case a good change, crossing fingers. |

Chris Winter
Zephyr Corp V.A.S.T.
66
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 20:54:00 -
[95] - Quote
CCP Paradox wrote:You must lauch 7 probes, and have 7 probes in the launch to be able to launch probes. But you can recall select probes if you wish. Please reconsider this. If for some reason I end up in a WH with fewer than seven probes, but still have enough probes to be able to scan an exit, I should still be able to launch what I have and find my way out instead of being blocked for no apparent reason.
CCP Paradox wrote:Probes now instantly recall on system jump or station dock I like this, but could we please also have probes recall when their timer runs out, instead of getting blown up?
Overall looks like interesting changes. I'll have to try them to be sure. |

Liltha
Lost My Way Enterprises
6
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 21:00:00 -
[96] - Quote
CCP Paradox wrote:Honestly guys, I want feedback AFTER you have used the features. Not before! Singularity will be up shortly.
Here is some feedback that doesn't require testing assuming I have read your post right.
You took away the current use of astrometrics, so to "compensate" you gave it aspects of the other 3 scanning skills. Then realizing that made scanning to easy it would seem you decided to nerf the remaining scanning skills so now I need rank 5 in those skills + rank 5 in astrometrics just to equal the bonus I got before this nerf. This is quite frankly crap, you should consider making the bonus to pinpointing and the like a little higher than half their current values to make the bonus from astrometrics a real bonus instead of a pointless salve.
|

DJ P0N-3
Table Flippendeavors
192
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 21:05:00 -
[97] - Quote
Oh jeez. The locked-in-formation always-seven-probes thing is obnoxious, plain and simple. Not being able to launch probes at all if you have fewer than seven probes in your launcher is ridiculous. You have probes. You should be able to launch them. Probes shouldn't turn into dead weight if you don't have at least seven of them. |

Kai Pirinha
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
12
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 21:22:00 -
[98] - Quote
I'm just testing the new scan system. On thing that's really bothering me: I do not seem to move all probes away or closer to the center at once. The "Pinpoint" (diamond) formation is nice for the default range. But if you change the probe size, then you need to change the relative distance of the probes to each other. With the old system, you could simply do that with one probe and "alt". This is not possible anymore and I have to move each probe seperately: 6 times the work! 6 times the time required!
/never mind, I just found it, you just have to press shift and alt simultaneously -.-'
Also I want to be able to use only one probe so I can quickly identify the wormholes in my system. If I have three wormholes in my system (or more, my record is 7) and I'm just looking for the C4, then I have to probe every wormhole now. With the old system it only took one probe to identify the signatures and see the size. You might argue: But a C4 is still smaller than a Highsec in a C2. Well yes, but it shows that you don't scan on a daily basis!
If I launch 7 probes and just look for the size, then a signature that is only covered by one instead of 3 or all probes will have a weaker signal strength and I will mistake it with the smaller wormhole signature(s).
/edit: I'm missing the columns on the system scanner, so I can sort my results by name or type or strength. This is important to me. |

Haseo Antares
Corollary Forest Fairytail.
29
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 21:40:00 -
[99] - Quote
I'm tempted to say the "new" scanning system is terrible and that you guys should just leave it alone. But I'll just adapt...much less typing that way. We currently have the world's greatest linguists and scientists trying to decode whatn++ you just said. |

blink alt
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
12
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 21:42:00 -
[100] - Quote
Another thing is that once you scan something down to 100% it doesn't remember it anymore, so once you move onto a different sig you better have bookmarked that first once because now it is back to not having a warpable resolution |

Mario delTorres
Advanced Construction Technology Honey Badger Coalition
6
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 21:48:00 -
[101] - Quote
On sisi new T2 modules requires only level 1 of skill, the same as T1. I think it should be changed before it lands in tranquility. :) |

Jivlain Pollard
The Red Circle Inc.
4
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 21:49:00 -
[102] - Quote
Previously you could copy-paste signatures from the list in the scan window, and you could also sort signatures on any column - not just strength but also name. These were both rather useful when coordinating multiple scanners. You could, for example, copy out a complete list of signatures, put that in a shared document, and then easily find which signatures you were missing - if we're missing AUN-520, I could easily find AUN-520 in the ingame list by sorting alphabetically.
Now there seems rather impractical to coordinate multiple scanners. You can't copy-paste the list of signatures, and you can't isolate a particular signature by any means other than ignoring everything else. Can this functionality be restored? |

Saerni
Confederation Navy Research Epsilon Fleet
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 21:54:00 -
[103] - Quote
List style feedback
1. I go to select one signature in the list, and all my probes are unselected meaning I have to go back to the list to reselect them in order to move them around.
2. Signatures scanned to 100% don't save themselves like before, once I start in on a new signature the old ones go back to normal.
3. The new system wide scanner does show signatures as well as anomolies, but not in the list version (which I would recommend you keep because without it that is a lot of flipping around the camera to keep an eye out (I am in wh space and like to keep an eye out for new wh's that pop-up. I do use a probe normally to keep an eye out, combat-type to see any random camping people, but if the new scanner is replacing DSP then those sites need to be listed properly or not at all.
4. The scanning mode is confusing. Is the new system scanner always scanning? The graphic makes it appear so and the scanner button would appear to be for just probes, but if this is not the case I would be curious to know.
5. Being able to launch a single combat probe lets me position it neatly and simply out of range of DS, making keeping myself safe easy. By removing the single launch ability, setting up a fairly standard safety net is not easy in a stupid way. Again, like showing scanning strengths of signatures within the list, this is something that needs to change from how it is currently.
That's all for now, more later |

Niddengolliah
VoodooTank Industries Games of Divinity
3
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 21:58:00 -
[104] - Quote
OK, my thoughts so far on probing. The bad: The 7 probes - the launcher still fits 8, so there is always one left, kind of confusing there, maybe change that to use only 7 probes too, or let us fire off the last one separately. VERY BAD - the scanner seems to 'forget' 100% hits, so if you move away from sig A to scan sig B, you lose sig A or sig A decreases from 100%. I hate this, make the scanner remember 100% hits like it is now in TQ. The spread is really unnecessary - a single 32AU probe used to cover most systems fine, and it was easy to remember which signal strength would provide the sig you are looking for (very important for speed scanning in WHs). VERY BAD - actually, the new system doesn't seem to display the actual sig percentage at all, so guesstimating sig types from sig strength is now nigh impossible 
The good: The Diamond - very nice, much less fiddling around, but doesn't allow for finessing with those hard to pinpoint signals.
Confusing: Where did the probe timer go? Do the probes stay in space until DT/indefinitely now?
Sites: The new relic sites are looking very nice, love the whole religious backdrop with monuments and cathedrals, but I have absolutely no idea what to do in the hacking thingy - what is the goal there? Of course this is probably not even remotely finished, but I'd like to see some direction there, as right now it is looking pretty promising! (Love the animated ancient ships!)
|

Bobbi Quine
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 22:00:00 -
[105] - Quote
I can see the utility of the probe formations, and moving the whole formation at once without holding down shift is nice but being locked into launching 7 probes is silly. Make it so that pushing the formation button launches a group of probes, but activating the launcher should still drop one at a time.
Losing the DSP and not having signal strength available is going to make life in a wormhole harder. I guess we can differentiate sites based on the size of the bar but the numerical value would be nice to have.
By far the worst thing so far is that sites aren't "remembered" once scanned to 100%. In the old system you could scan a sig to 100% and then move on to the next one without losing the ability to warp to the first. This is no longer possible.
The sensor overlay is actually kind of nice, but can we turn off the radar sweep animation without losing the sigs? It's a neat effect the first time but it gets old pretty quick (much like the new gate animation).
Hopefully you can iterate this a few times before the launch. |

Mister Vee
Magellanic Itg Goonswarm Federation
46
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 22:02:00 -
[106] - Quote
Directy copy/paste of my post in the general Odyssey feedback thread, since it's relevant to this thread:
####
- It's now impossible to resize the columns in probe results. Most people (or at least, I did) minimized the 'Ship ID', 'Ship' and often even 'Ship class'. For combat probing the only worthwhile columns are 'Ship type' and 'Distance'
- Speaking of the distance column, it's entirely gone. I hope this is a bug -- if not, it kills the entire pvp metagame. F.e. bombing will be impossible and tier3 snipers will dominate everything
- It's also not possible to sort results by any column. The usual way to have probe results setup is sorted by distance close>far or far>close.
- The colors are very bright and distracting, it also doesn't line up with any other interface in Eve. Not a big fan of this.. although I do like the way percentage is shown by the length of the colored bar (just tone down the colors a bit)
- The 'warp to' button is a bit silly, hardly anyone will do a personal warp to a result at 0. Most of the times a covops will warp at distance to not get decloaked, or someone would warp squad/wing/fleet. If in most cases a right click is required anyway, why waste so much space on a 'warp to 0' button?
- Looks like 'Ignore result' and 'Ignore other results' are either reversed or just bugged in general. Results definitely aren't being hidden like they should be.
- For the love of christ let us center the camera in the probe map on celestials from the overview again. This was changed a while ago and it sucks. CCP Karkur made some inquiries to this change, but I don't know if it's on the list to put back in the client. Previously a single click on a celestial on the overview (stations, planets, moons, everything) centered the camera on it
- Probe formations are cool and useful. Dragging the entire probe set without holding shift is good too.
- It's almost impossible to tell which probe result has been selected. The color difference is minimal and the bars constantly sliding into the screen are way too distracting.
This interface really needs work before it's actually an improvement... |

Yittrix
GP Academy
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 22:03:00 -
[107] - Quote
Issues I have found..
Unable to change the scan range of any probe.
* I launch 7 probes in formation but want to change probe 3 to 16 AU. The menu allows it but there is no change in the UI until you hit the scan button. The size the probe's sphere doesn't change either on the screen.
* I scanned down a wormhole and got it to 100% but once I moved the probes away the percentage dropped. Did not stay 100 % like the old scanner would.. Don't know if this is an designed change or an over look. Had the same result with a Data Site.
Shift + Alt to shrink the location of the probes together took a while to figure out. Also there is no on screen display to show you how large the scan diameter is for the probes. You must look at the scanner to determine this.
When you change the size of the range you have to click the scan button to have the scanner update the correct range. There seems to be a disconnect here.
I set one probe to 16 AU and the rest to 0.5AU but they all appear the same size on the screen
I do like the colored changing bar for the cosmic signature you scanning down. I also like the text size and font.
|

MisterAl tt1
Pretenders Inc W-Space
74
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 22:10:00 -
[108] - Quote
Thank you for ruining my interest in the game. I WAS a scanner mainly. I trained for months to scan fast and effectively, not in0game skills, but my own skills of placing probes and so on. Now you make it all Press A - press B - Press C, you win! No need to know the patterns, no need to understand what triangulation is. Is EVE a game for casuals now? No 8th probe, new modules that would not have place in our scanning T3s. Gravimetrics with on-ship scan. To hell with all that.
I' d really like to write a lot more, but what I 'd like to write to you is a violation of forum rules. |

Ydnari
Estrale Frontiers Project Wildfire
186
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 22:10:00 -
[109] - Quote
Liking it so far. Please put the "scan" button back at the top of the window though; I ran a few scans and every time I was fighting muscle memory and moving mouse to the top of the window when the scan button is now in the lower pane. Don't see why it's been moved. -- |

Aidamina Omen
Aperture Harmonics K162
40
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 22:12:00 -
[110] - Quote
A lot of these changes offer a lot of quality of life improvements that I really applaud, I do have some feedback though. In its current state it is not ready for release.
Things I found that require changing before this goes live:
* Rows in scan result window need to be copy-pasteable, including the result strength in % rather then a bar. (some corps use this information in their internal tooling) * There's no progress bar on the active system scan * On sisi experienced several occasions of the client freezing up in the middle of scan cycles. (dont have this issue on tranquility atm) * In the past when you held shift all your probes moved, now it does the exact reverse. Makes it very counter intuitive for people who already do a lot of scanning. * When you release shift while you are moving probes the other single probe drag mode doesnt exit. (like it used to with the multi probe mode)
Since scanning is at the base of wormhole live I am sort of surprised to learn that we have not been directly contacted about these changes so we could provide feedback at an earlier stage. Maybe an idea to touch base with the new WH CSM representatives ASAP. |

Zeradn
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 22:17:00 -
[111] - Quote
Forgive me if anybody said this before, but I believe a 4 probe dispersal pattern would be really useful, along with the old 8 probe limit. Some people were asking about not being able to scan two targets at a time with the present setup. With 4 probe dispersal pattern, launching two such patterns could be possible, thus enabling the old strategy of scanning two locations at a time. It could also help those who just want to launch 4 probes.
PS: I hope you change the habit of the scanner forgetting scanned down results. I hope this has been just an oversight and not a planned feature. |

Kai Pirinha
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
12
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 22:23:00 -
[112] - Quote
Changing the distance of the probes to one each other requires to press alt+shift. Alt+shift is already used by windows for changing the keyboard layout (in my case it toggles the layout between the German and the English layout).
So each time I want to rearrange the probes, it will change my keyboard layout. That's rather ****** to be honest. |

Faulx
Brother Fox Corp
159
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 22:25:00 -
[113] - Quote
Overall, these changes are very disappointing. You've brought a number of minor usability changes to the scanning system which make a cumbersome interface easier to use. However, you're treating the symptoms not the problem.
Imagine you're a combat pilot. Is blowing up your 1000th ship boring? Or is it still as exciting as ever? I'll wager that most folks would think it's still fun.
Now imagine you're an explorer. Is scanning down your 1000th signature boring? Hell Yes! I'll wager most folks would answer the same. Scanning is a time-consuming hurdle you have to surmount to find/secure/identify the fun stuff.
But why? What's the difference between the two?... The first, involves an activity which changes every time, it's always different and there's infinite room for variation and interaction with others. The second, is always the same experience... every damn time. There's no variety (except what mostly-uninteresting-things you find, where you find them, and how long it takes to find something you actually want), and often times there's no interaction with other players within the scanning system itself, beyond a tedious game of "spam the d-scanner".
The problem is: the process of scanning itself is dreadfully boring. So what's to be done about this? Add challenges to the process:
- scanning interference (natural and artificial: e.g. solar flares, interstellar dust, gravitational lensing, jamming: preferably strawberry),
- scanner pvp... probe killing hunter killer drones (every scan the enemy makes brings their probes closer to destruction),
- false signatures (e.g. disguise your ship as another ship... Surprise! that's a Tengu not a Hulk),
- back-hacking the signal (use your enemy's probes to pinpoint or decloak them).
- scanning alerts (spamming the d-scanner isn't fun for anyone... if someone is trying to be sneaky and land probes undetected, the probing system itself should encapsulate that dynamic)
Basically, introduce problem solving and human interaction into the scanning/counter-scanning process. And, for goodness sake, don't let it be the same damn, mind numbing tedium over and over. |

Elendar
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
8
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 22:30:00 -
[114] - Quote
Is there a way to show range to probe results? Again rather significant to combat probing if this has been changed. |

MisterAl tt1
Pretenders Inc W-Space
75
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 22:43:00 -
[115] - Quote
I'd say the number of "likes' to the initial post so far (6) is telling you all you need to know about this "changes". |

Nomad I
University of Caille Gallente Federation
133
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 22:45:00 -
[116] - Quote
The deep space probes were useful in larger systems and - what a wonder - we have a lot of them. I don't understand why they get removed. I used them in WH and in 0.0. |

Nox Arnoux
Aperture Harmonics K162
30
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 23:01:00 -
[117] - Quote
You've done a great job making the scanning system simpler by automating a lot of the things that had to be done manually before. Fair enough, maybe it's for the better that scanning becomes more intuitive than its current form. However the way you're implementing it is all kinds of awful.
1. Launching 7 probes at once into space in a wormhole is basically the same as waving your arms in the air screaming "HEY EVERYONE, I'M HERE! PAY ATTENTION TO ME DAMN IT!". While it's convenient for the casual scanner, hunters with subtlety will now die a painful death.
2. Automatically resizing and repositioning the probes may be all good and fun for locking down a single signature, it severely hinders our ability to cover the scan areas that WE WANT TO COVER. For example, we don't want or need the probes to be in their spread formation the second we hit launch... we want them clumped together, so we can use them to evaluate signature strengths without flinging our probes out to every corner of the system for people to dscan. Not to mention, we want to make our own probe formations without having to first drag them back into place.
3. Removing that 8th probe effectively dismantles many of the multi-sig probing layouts that veteran scanners have relied upon. I don't know whose call it was that 7 probes is the way to go, or why it was even necessary to take the 8th probe out, but they are wrong, and they have now angered the bitter vets.
I have no problem with making the system slightly easier to use for beginners, but those neat little automated features you've added that are supposed to be crutches for the new explorer are severe hindrances to the seasoned veteran. So I propose the following:
1. Make the scanning interface more customizable. A simple check box that disables many of these beginner friendly features would suffice. Give us the option to launch the probes 1 at a time if we choose, as well as the option to not have a computer automate our probe placements. This can't be rocket science to implement.
2. We need that 8th probe back. This is not a trivial matter. You've removed something that is critical to the level of depth scanning has evolved into.
3. Make the scan results copy/pastable. Otherwise the 3rd party tools we've developed over the years will be made completely obsolete. |

Tanaka Aiko
ICE is Coming to EVE Goonswarm Federation
171
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 23:02:00 -
[118] - Quote
There is now scan history, which will show the change in acquired signal strength from your last scan. |

Haseo Antares
Corollary Forest Fairytail.
30
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 23:04:00 -
[119] - Quote
Nox Arnoux wrote:You've done a great job making the scanning system simpler by automating a lot of the things that had to be done manually before. Fair enough, maybe it's for the better that scanning becomes more intuitive than its current form. However the way you're implementing it is all kinds of awful.
1. Launching 7 probes at once into space in a wormhole is basically the same as waving your arms in the air screaming "HEY EVERYONE, I'M HERE! PAY ATTENTION TO ME DAMN IT!". While it's convenient for the casual scanner, hunters with subtlety will now die a painful death.
2. Automatically resizing and repositioning the probes may be all good and fun for locking down a single signature, it severely hinders our ability to cover the scan areas that WE WANT TO COVER. For example, we don't want or need the probes to be in their spread formation the second we hit launch... we want them clumped together, so we can use them to evaluate signature strengths without flinging our probes out to every corner of the system for people to dscan. Not to mention, we want to make our own probe formations without having to first drag them back into place.
3. Removing that 8th probe effectively dismantles many of the multi-sig probing layouts that veteran scanners have relied upon. I don't know whose call it was that 7 probes is the way to go, or why it was even necessary to take the 8th probe out, but they are wrong, and they have now angered the bitter vets.
I have no problem with making the system slightly easier to use for beginners, but those neat little automated features you've added that are supposed to be crutches for the new explorer are severe hindrances to the seasoned veteran. So I propose the following:
1. Make the scanning interface more customizable. A simple check box that disables many of these beginner friendly features would suffice. Give us the option to launch the probes 1 at a time if we choose, as well as the option to not have a computer automate our probe placements. This can't be rocket science to implement.
2. We need that 8th probe back. This is not a trivial matter. You've removed something that is critical to the level of depth scanning has evolved into.
3. Make the scan results copy/pastable. Otherwise the 3rd party tools we've developed over the years will be made completely obsolete.
I endorse this wall of text. Also I would like my DSP back! We currently have the world's greatest linguists and scientists trying to decode whatn++ you just said. |

Tealdar Ohaya
Parallax Shift The Periphery
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 23:05:00 -
[120] - Quote
I like the new changes so far my only gripes are: the fact that completed 100% scanned results dont stick while you are scanning
not being able to resize the probes bubbles to overlap when in the spread formation scanning with gaps seems a bit in efficent to me..
and why don't the inital scan results appear in the scan list when your ship does the sensor sweep if it did that with inital strengths wont that cover the main use of the now removed deep space probe? |
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