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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 48 post(s) |
Space Wanderer
36
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Posted - 2013.05.10 11:55:00 -
[511] - Quote
St Mio wrote:Space Wanderer wrote:Sorry St. Mio, you are not off the hook yet. :) >:(
It will be easier for you now, however. No fancy calculation getting the scan strength as input, the signature size seems to be given directly. |
Mnemosyne Gloob
Acerbus Vindictum Stealth Wear Inc.
98
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 12:02:00 -
[512] - Quote
I havent personally tried out the new system, but from reading here one could get the impression, that CCP thinks the loot from exploration is too expensive.
I am concerned about profession sites not having rats (would this be true for wspace, too?) - if any frigate could go to nullsec, find a radar/mag, do a little minigame and get juicy stuff - prices of decryptors/salvage are gonna drop.
Why show those people that don't carry probes the signatures via onboard scanner? I don't get that, really.
If only 7 probes are 'allowed', why not make bundles or somesuch thing.
Only 'approved' probe formations?
The PVP aspects are strange, too, although you could argue that combat probing has become too easy over time.
[edit]WTB analyze shortcut [/edit] |
Hellynx84
Austudy 10110001100111101000
22
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Posted - 2013.05.10 12:14:00 -
[513] - Quote
Just played around on sisi. Im quite happy with whats been implemented. Only 2 things that I would say need looking into are:
100% scan results not staying locked in. ( Think I read somewhere this is a bug) Having to reselect all the probes whenever you want to resize scan radius. (Hopefully this goes back to the old way of Probes all staying selected)
Apart from those, I think it has been put together very well. Took me all of 5 - 10 minutes to get comfortable with the new system. I live in a wormhole, and dont think this is going to impact my scanning at all, and may even infact speed it up a little. Hermit in a Hole "I swear im not paranoid" http://holeyhermit.blogspot.com.au/ |
St Mio
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1226
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Posted - 2013.05.10 12:18:00 -
[514] - Quote
Mnemosyne Gloob wrote:[edit]WTB analyze shortcut [/edit] GÖÑ |
Slaktoid
Aperture Harmonics K162
22
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Posted - 2013.05.10 12:23:00 -
[515] - Quote
Repost from the general thread, and some more comments:
Scanning system pros and cons:
Pros: Easy to use/understand for newbie probers. Sufficient for entry level scanners.
Cons: Not sophisticated enough for wormhole people/people who scan a lot. No programmable probe formations (Give us the tools to decide. Do not decide whats best for us, you don't know!). Tool tips are gone. Cannot easily center on probes. 7 probes are not enough for wormhole dwellers who are maybe scanning three digit number of sigs in a day. The "Bracket" icons in space are a cool idea, but you cannot interact with them in the usual manner (right click align/warp to x/broadcast etc). This needs to be worked on. And while you're at it, can we please get normal bookmark brackets/icons in space (and even on overview). Thanks =)
To clarify why 7 probes is not enough: When you scan a lot (wh-chains for example), the signature you're scanning isn't the important one, it's the next one you intend to scan after you're done with the one you're currently scanning. 4 probes in 8.0 au box formation will show you the nearby signatures, and 4 probes in 2.0 au box formation will identify all signatures (with good skills/rigs etc). So you can quickly identify ie 20 signatures in a matter of minutes, and only fully scan down the ones you are interested in (wormholes). The quicker you scan down chains, the quicker you can find some potential pew-pew.
I'll come back with more if I feel something is overlooked.
Keep on working guys. You got lots of good stuff in there, even though we tend to focus on the negative, you're doing great.
Edit: The new system is noobfriendly and easy, just slower than what I normally do. Faster when your gonna scan 2 sigs down to 100%, but slower when you wanna scan 100 signatures to make a wh-chain.
I have also tested all types of probe formations and number of probes, something I'm sure everyone who have lived in wormspace for 4+ years, and have scanned tens of thousands of signatures, have done.
It's not about being good or bad, it's about lacking options. Being forced to do something a certain way. To have ones choice taken away. That's whats we object to. |
Omnathious Deninard
The Scope Gallente Federation
988
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Posted - 2013.05.10 12:54:00 -
[516] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:Octoven wrote:I like being able to see in space if there are any signatures to scan down before I bother wasting time to launch probes.
This is the exact reason that they should be removed, that is not exploring that borders the realm of farming sites. It also bears mention that "not wasting time" is the reason behind dropping a DSP, which Octoven says is "gamey" and part of behavior he does not like. However, I must disagree that being able to see what's in space "borders on farming sites". It's the same thing you do by dropping a DSP, except now it's done for you (whether you like it or not, which is not cool btw CCP) and presented in a fancy new way that happens much faster than the DSP scan sweep ever did. I'm a fan of the new scan sweep, myself. I'm not a fan of being unable to turn off the auto-sweep and run the scanner on-demand like with the current system scanner on TQ, but in my opinion it beats dropping a DSP simply to see what (if anything) is around. Except the new system removes a significant skill investment, that usually comes with specialized equipment. Ideas For Drone Improvement Repourpose Deep Space Scanner Probes |
Droidyk
Maniacal Miners INC The Omega Industries
27
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Posted - 2013.05.10 12:54:00 -
[517] - Quote
Ueberlisk wrote:I HATE HATE HATE the fact that you launch all the probes when you want to launch just one to quickly check systems. It just doesn't make sense to me. (yes i know deep space probes have been removed.)
Is it going to be possible to change the amount of probes launched or can i set my own quick formations? I normally only use 4 combat probes as it is what I'm used to and it minimizes the effect probes have on dscan. Based on this I would also love to keep the ability to have at least 8 probes inside the launcher for the ability to launch multiple sets without having to spend so much time reloading.
What? You still can launch 1 probe by yourself pushing the scan probe launcher, noone ever said that the launcher will be removed or you couldnt click it to launch one probe after another... |
Sipphakta en Gravonere
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
85
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Posted - 2013.05.10 12:57:00 -
[518] - Quote
Droidyk wrote:What? You still can launch 1 probe by yourself pushing the scan probe launcher, noone ever said that the launcher will be removed or you couldnt click it to launch one probe after another...
Go ahead, try it. Then come back and say it again. I wish I were a cat. That way, I could kill things and people would applaud - instead of screaming out "OH GOD NO, NOT MY DAUGHTER!" |
Omnathious Deninard
The Scope Gallente Federation
988
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Posted - 2013.05.10 12:58:00 -
[519] - Quote
Droidyk wrote:Ueberlisk wrote:I HATE HATE HATE the fact that you launch all the probes when you want to launch just one to quickly check systems. It just doesn't make sense to me. (yes i know deep space probes have been removed.)
Is it going to be possible to change the amount of probes launched or can i set my own quick formations? I normally only use 4 combat probes as it is what I'm used to and it minimizes the effect probes have on dscan. Based on this I would also love to keep the ability to have at least 8 probes inside the launcher for the ability to launch multiple sets without having to spend so much time reloading. What? You still can launch 1 probe by yourself pushing the scan probe launcher, noone ever said that the launcher will be removed or you couldnt click it to launch one probe after another... No, you can't any thing that is done to launch a probe launched 7, if you have less than 7 probes loaded, it will not launch any. Ideas For Drone Improvement Repourpose Deep Space Scanner Probes |
Perris Korat
PKor A.T. Metals and Mechanical The Interstellar Contract Agency
3
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Posted - 2013.05.10 13:01:00 -
[520] - Quote
Droidyk wrote:
What? You still can launch 1 probe by yourself pushing the scan probe launcher, noone ever said that the launcher will be removed or you couldnt click it to launch one probe after another...
No you can't. At least, I couldn't on sisi last night, with a sisters expanded launcher. It was either 7 or none, and it really sucked because i was in a WH with only 5 probes, and it wouldn't let me launch ANY. If that's how it goes down on launch day, I predict a crapload of people are suddenly trapped, or worse, lost, in WH's with no way to probe their way out.
I really hate the way some stuff gets dumbed down TOO much. I liked the fact that scanning was somewhat hard and took some skill. |
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Egg McMuff
2
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Posted - 2013.05.10 13:07:00 -
[521] - Quote
Ok I take back what i said about the cream buns etc---
I entered a wormhole and scanned for 3 hours (wife was out)
The overlay works well instead of the DSP so that is a good thing in my opinion.
Things to fix ----
8 probes please timer for probes and scan routine the 100% bug fixed copy and paste the sigs please Column adjustment
I also noticed that when you place the cursor over the signature in space you get different noises from different sigs?? could this be to identify what type it is or I could just be a muppet and be imagining it.
cheers |
Olari Vanderfall
Z3R0 RETURN MINING INC. Illusion of Solitude
24
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Posted - 2013.05.10 13:18:00 -
[522] - Quote
I'm hopeful for the game. Despite CCPs effort to make me a bitter vet, I'll offer a summary.
Like:
The system scanner that lists sigs. It has potential for removing local and allowing for hostile ship detection on screen. It keeps your view in space and away from spreadsheets.
Ability to move probe groups with 1 box and adjust their radius by dragging on the sphere.
Not like:
Removal of a viable probe type. Which would not be necessary if we can design probe patterns at different Au, that maintain their relative radius when the size is changed.
Loss of 8th probe
Sigs are too easy to scan.
Wishlist :
Imagine a system where you scan out a site or group of ships. The sig goes to 100% for everyone in fleet. You would have distance and type of sig displayed in space.
Some sigs require multiple probers in fleet coordinating probe placement.
Keep player skill integral to the scanning process.
Specialized probes. |
JetCord
The Brony Herd Lost Obsession
5
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Posted - 2013.05.10 13:21:00 -
[523] - Quote
New exploration modules There are Tech I and Tech II variants.
Scan Acquisition Array
Duration Bonus = -10% TI, -20% TII
Scan Rangefinding Array
Scan Strength bonus = 10% TI, 20% TII
Scan Pinpointing Array
Maximum Scan deviation = -20% TI, -40% T II
i noticed that the skill requirement for T1 and T2 version for these modules are the same!
is this intended so that we go straight to T2 version instead of using the T1 version? |
Voith
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
85
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Posted - 2013.05.10 13:24:00 -
[524] - Quote
Tonto Auri wrote:As a matter of fact, they are turning exploration into mission running. Dumb and straightforward money grind. Pro-Tip it always was. Explorers just got to lie to themselves it wasn't. Well... the "slow" ones anyway. |
Roime
Shiva Furnace
2747
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Posted - 2013.05.10 13:25:00 -
[525] - Quote
Olari Vanderfall wrote: Keep player skill integral to the scanning process.
CCP is against player and character skills affecting scanning, their plan is to turn it into "pres butan, receive bacon". In the next iteration probes are removed completely, and you will get all sigs and ships warpable with one pass of Discovery Scanner.
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
zar dada
EVE University Ivy League
12
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Posted - 2013.05.10 13:52:00 -
[526] - Quote
The probes are much easier to control and the sizing of probes doesn't seem to bug like the current version where sizing the group only resizes a single probe after the scan button was pressed. Overall the new probe control is much simpler.
However, I'm accustomed to using 6 probes because the 7th probe in the middle makes the object of scanning difficult to see. Will it be possible to launch 6 probes or have a custom probe configuration when launching probes? When I have less than 7 probes in the launcher the probe formation buttons don't work.
Another problem I saw while in wspace, my 100% results were not saving, and I would lose them after I hit scan again. But in kspace the results 100% were saving.
Will it be possible to sort the results window to see the 100% results at the bottom?
I was using the Deep Space probes for this reason http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/dsp/wormhole.html
Thanks for making the features available on the test server. |
Omnathious Deninard
The Scope Gallente Federation
988
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Posted - 2013.05.10 14:02:00 -
[527] - Quote
Scanning Tutorial is still using the old system and needs to be changed. Ideas For Drone Improvement Repourpose Deep Space Scanner Probes |
Perris Korat
PKor A.T. Metals and Mechanical The Interstellar Contract Agency
3
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Posted - 2013.05.10 14:02:00 -
[528] - Quote
Egg McMuff wrote: Also when you scan and then ignore sigs it would be really nice if you could remove them from overlay as they are ignored.
+1 |
Moth Eisig
The Trident Brotherhood
5
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Posted - 2013.05.10 14:10:00 -
[529] - Quote
Voith wrote:Tonto Auri wrote:As a matter of fact, they are turning exploration into mission running. Dumb and straightforward money grind. Pro-Tip it always was. Explorers just got to lie to themselves it wasn't. Well... the "slow" ones anyway. Yeah, "exploration" is a bit of a misnomer. It's more like going metal detecting on the beach. During D-Day. |
Omnathious Deninard
The Scope Gallente Federation
988
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Posted - 2013.05.10 14:14:00 -
[530] - Quote
Thoughts on how to make the new system work. Leave our skills alone!! Set it up so that you can launch a single probe still, and add a option in the scanner window to set the number of probes you want in your auto formation. Leave the mystery when traveling into a new system, being given all the information right up front kills the mystery of exploration, I will say that Space Anomalies are a fine thing to see though upon entering a system. Standardize the size of probes and flag combat probes to only load into the Expanded Probe Launcher. Let us keep out DSP. Leave Our Skills Alone!!! Ideas For Drone Improvement Repourpose Deep Space Scanner Probes |
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Zircon Dasher
195
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Posted - 2013.05.10 14:20:00 -
[531] - Quote
So quick impressions after spending a few hours scanning yesterday (may be repeats.... I won;t be bothering to read 27 pages):
1) Probe numbers- being stuck at "launch 7 or gtfo" is kind of a drag if you are trying to scan multiple locations at the same time. 2) Interface- Perhaps I will get used to it but..... It is awfully fiddly if you do not want to use the preset formations. 3) Buggy- several features do not seem to have been implemented (hacking for example) in a state that is functional. I will bug report later today.
I was going to say WTF?!! in regards to probes automagically returning when jumping/docking, removing DSP's, and copy-paste ability. After sleeping on it, however, I have come to think it is actually a good thing. You won't get much love from the people who rely upon using these tactics... legally or not-so-legally.... but people will adapt like they always do. Here is to hoping you keep it in! Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
261
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Posted - 2013.05.10 14:33:00 -
[532] - Quote
I have removed a couple of non-constructive posts.
2. Be respectful toward others at all times.
The purpose of the EVE Online forums is to provide a platform for exchange of ideas, and a venue for the discussion of EVE Online. Occasionally there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Forum users are expected to be courteous when disagreeing with others.
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.
ISD Ezwal Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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zar dada
EVE University Ivy League
12
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Posted - 2013.05.10 14:36:00 -
[533] - Quote
Is the Discovery Scanner Overlay supposed to work like this?
http://i.imgur.com/1msf6j5.jpg
After I have scanned a result to 100% it still shows red on the overlay.
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zar dada
EVE University Ivy League
12
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Posted - 2013.05.10 14:48:00 -
[534] - Quote
The 100% results in wspace don't save in the history
The Sig ID HGU-520 scanned to 100% http://i.imgur.com/MOXwudd.jpg
The next scan shows HGU-520 result not saved http://i.imgur.com/V3UBc3g.jpg
Is this working as intended? In a system with 10+ sigs how do we keep track of what we have scanned to 100%?
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Ibrahim Vaughn Holtzman
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
16
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Posted - 2013.05.10 15:10:00 -
[535] - Quote
After probing for about an hour on SiSi:
1. The scanner window needs columns back. Sortable columns.
2. I can launch 7 probes. And 7 probes only. What if I only want one? Or four? What If I probe differently than CCP does?
3. I can place my probes only in two fixed formations. What If I probe differently than CCP does?
Points 2 & 3 also bear an interesting question; If I can only lauch a fixed amount of probes in fixed formations why not go all the way and boil everything down to a single probe?
4. Is it really necessary to nerf probing skills only to introduce modules that aid probing?! |
Atomic Option
Taggart Transdimensional Virtue of Selfishness
56
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Posted - 2013.05.10 15:11:00 -
[536] - Quote
After playing with probing a bit on Sisi I'm happy with 90% of it.
The 10% I'm unsure about:
The UI improvements are great, but they're a double edged sword. With the ability to launch 7 probes, instantly arraign them for optimal scanning, and very quickly resize them, combat scanning is MUCH much faster than it was. With my lvl 4 skills I was able to skip multiple probe distance settings even while scanning down abandoned fighters. This means safe spots are going to be significantly less safe even with a non-covops cloak now especially for slow warping ships like capitals/supers. And ratters are going to have to be checking local even more often to have some measure of safety.
In the initial probe formation the bubbles don't overlap at all, which means that even on the largest area setting they're going to be missing parts of space and therefore potentially some signatures.
Recommendation:
Make the probe launcher drop all the probes at the END of its cycle, and make the cycle take a bit longer. Instant probing is too fast to be balanced. This also returns the brief scanning ship vulnerability window that they currently have while uncloaking to drop probes.
Give probes some moderate overlap in their 2d grid pattern formation so that they aren't missing large swaths of on-celestial-plane space. |
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CCP Paradox
828
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Posted - 2013.05.10 15:12:00 -
[537] - Quote
Just acknowledging this thread still, so you know we are here. We're talking about all of your feedback right now. Investigating, talking things through, and prioritizing what we need to do.
Omnathious Deninard, the NPE/Tutorial stuff is still to come for the changes. CCP Paradox | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Super Friends @CCP_Paradox |
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Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
1408
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Posted - 2013.05.10 15:18:00 -
[538] - Quote
CCP Paradox wrote:Just acknowledging this thread still, so you know we are here. We're talking about all of your feedback right now. Investigating, talking things through, and prioritizing what we need to do.
Omnathious Deninard, the NPE/Tutorial stuff is still to come for the changes.
Just allow the ability to launch probes individually in the way it has always been, and much of the issues people have would be resolved.
E: For bonus points, modify the "predefined" cluster launches to user controlled. Player organizes probes in certain fashion, highlights probes, right-click "Save Formation", and allow THE PLAYER to do presets when it comes to probes. Improving NPE |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1018
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Posted - 2013.05.10 15:19:00 -
[539] - Quote
CCP Paradox wrote:Just acknowledging this thread still, so you know we are here. We're talking about all of your feedback right now. Investigating, talking things through, and prioritizing what we need to do.
Omnathious Deninard, the NPE/Tutorial stuff is still to come for the changes. very good to know. players always value feedback on their feedback, just like you do ;)
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Kuetlzelcoatl
9
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Posted - 2013.05.10 15:21:00 -
[540] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote: Leave the mystery when traveling into a new system, being given all the information right up front kills the mystery of exploration,...
I actually like getting some automatic results. Brings some realism to the game where you do have some automated systems.
I would say make it optional to auto-show results. |
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