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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Liner Xiandra
Sparks Inc Zero Hour Alliance
199
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Posted - 2013.05.14 22:35:00 -
[31] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:So getting podded in 0.0 in a 1m frigate still costs me 32m.
Time for a BS sized fleet tackler. Go on CCP, time to expand the e-war battleship range.
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
3645
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Posted - 2013.05.14 22:43:00 -
[32] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Quote:CCP Rise - Why did you not remove them completely? I'm with you. We talked about it a lot here, and we all would rather make this system better than strip it out completely. I know this is a careful first step, but trust me, we want to do more with it and this is a way for us to act in a more informed way when we are able to more, and in the mean time it eases the pain a bit for you guys. Something CCP is becoming more serious about (with Fozzie as one of the major champions) is making 'good' changes NOW even if there's some 'perfect' solution somewhere down the line that might take quite awhile to actually happen. I understand the desire to try and save the clone upgrade system, but it causes far more harm than good.
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MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
978
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Posted - 2013.05.14 22:47:00 -
[33] - Quote
still to expensive... i have to spend 31 million isk when i loose a 2 million isk frig...
not cool...
pretty please make clones build able and allow the market to dictate cost. Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
483
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Posted - 2013.05.14 22:48:00 -
[34] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:If you have any feedback related to the clone system (especially in terms of how it affects your play-style) we would love to hear from you.
Clones (and implants) have always been a mechanic that turned me off of pvp and nullsec.
When I was a young player, I never went to nullsec because I did not want to slow down my training due to learning implants. PVP for me isn't a weekend thing, it's what I do nightly when I log in so jump clones did not solve this for me. I just stayed out of nullsec. Clone cost wasn't a big deal for me.
Now that I am a high SP player that likes to pvp frequently, I don't go to nullsec because I have an expensive clone. I also don't go because it would mean I would have to jump clone out of my hardwirings for 24 hours. When I pvp, I enjoy pvp where I have a good chance to lose my ship, and in nullsec with bubbles, that generally means a dead pod.
Finally, on the topic: The current system to save your clone in lowsec which is spam the warpout button with all your might as you hit structure is awful. It ruins the enjoyment of the last part of the fight, makes you turn off explosions and notifications so you don't get lag during those precious fractions of a second as you are trying to warp your pod out. Noobs who don't know any better lose (for them) expensive learning implants, and get turned off of pvp. I am strongly of the opinion that if you lose a ship, your pod should immediately begin an emergency warp to a random safespot (in nullsec, a bubble would prevent you from doing this). There is no "skill" in spamming the warpout button as fast as you can to keep your clone, it just detracts from the combat.
I know I deviated off the original request for feedback, but it is related. IMO, Lowsec is so much more alive for pvp than nullsec because lowsec is about pvp, while nullsec is about controlling territory. And if you pvp, a large part of that is generally reducing the cost of loss so you can fight more.
In lowsec:
a) Bubbles don't exist, people can move freely and generally choose not to engage in combat when they are at a stupid disadvantage (And the RSB nerf will help here too). b) In lowsec you get to keep training, keep some hardwirings, and not pay clone costs once you figure out how to spam the warpout button on your pod
Another suggestion could be that in addition to the removal of clone costs, the jump clone timer could be based on the distance you travel. If for example, you are jump cloning within the exact same system, there's no cooldown timer so you can decide "I'm going on a nullsec roam, and when i come back I can continue to train with my implants in". The further between your jump clones, the longer the timer before you can jump again. |
Dracoth Simertet
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
47
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Posted - 2013.05.14 22:48:00 -
[35] - Quote
Nice one a step in the right direction!
o7 Drac |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
243
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Posted - 2013.05.14 22:49:00 -
[36] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Quote:CCP Rise - Why did you not remove them completely? I'm with you. We talked about it a lot here, and we all would rather make this system better than strip it out completely. I know this is a careful first step, but trust me, we want to do more with it and this is a way for us to act in a more informed way when we are able to more, and in the mean time it eases the pain a bit for you guys. Something CCP is becoming more serious about (with Fozzie as one of the major champions) is making 'good' changes NOW even if there's some 'perfect' solution somewhere down the line that might take quite awhile to actually happen.
So like with links, you could reduce the effectiveness by 2/3 in time for odyssey while you spend time working out a proper solution to cut their range? |
Shadow Lord77
Shadow Industries I
286
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Posted - 2013.05.14 22:50:00 -
[37] - Quote
Are you going to reimburse clone costs after this change goes live? |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1412
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Posted - 2013.05.14 22:51:00 -
[38] - Quote
[Proposal] Bubbles don't affect clones.
Discuss. |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
483
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Posted - 2013.05.14 22:52:00 -
[39] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:[Proposal] Bubbles don't affect clones.
Discuss.
Disclaimer: I hate bubbles, and want nothing to do with them.
Bubbles make sense in Nullsec: Nullsec isn't about fighting, it's about territory control. As such, it makes sense to have bubbles trap pods (which I assume is what you meant when you said clones).
It's got a nice division: If you want to shoot stuff in spaceships, generally you come to lowsec. If you want to play a more strategic game of risk, you go to nullsec. |
Gevlin
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
214
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Posted - 2013.05.14 22:53:00 -
[40] - Quote
To encourage PVP but keep the isk sink in place I would recommend a clone subscription option - unlimited clones for so much isk per month. Then Frigate wars here I come. Some day I will have the internet and be able to play again. |
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EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
755
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Posted - 2013.05.14 22:53:00 -
[41] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:[Proposal] Bubbles don't affect clones.
Discuss. terrible idea with no reason to exist and no justification offered for polluting an otherwise good thread with its presence
that about sums it up |
Lo'Kii
Freedom For Fantasy The Unthinkables
1
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Posted - 2013.05.14 22:55:00 -
[42] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:CCP Rise - Why did you not remove them completely? Why just the 30%? Sure suicide podding across the game via the abuse of clone locations would need to be addressed, but solving that has several solutions that are acceptable.
I agree. In my opinion suicide podding can be tackled by not allowing to move your medical clone for 24 hours after being podded or using a jump clone in the same 24 hour period. |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
3646
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Posted - 2013.05.14 22:55:00 -
[43] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:[Proposal] Bubbles don't affect clones.
Discuss. I'm assuming you mean pods. If so then I would say no. That would bean everyone would be sporting pirate implants and only those who suffer a hiccup in their Internet connection would lose them.
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MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
978
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Posted - 2013.05.14 22:59:00 -
[44] - Quote
i would make clone bpo's
they take PI stuff to make
tie in Dust where Biomass centers can be fought over (the technium for clone construction)
allow me to install muliple clones in a station... (i want a new body for every day of the week)
also allow me to transport clones in industrial ships (you have to do tiericide for industrials why not make one a special clone vat ship) would make for some epic kill mails where someone could loose like 20 full snake clones...
then allow un-used clones to be bought and sold on the market.
you can reprocess old clones to get the materials to make new ones ( a new mini profession from collecting dead pod pilots)
i would allow there to be a dynamic market before removing clones from the medical bay all together. Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
Draqone an'Alreigh
EVE University Ivy League
32
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Posted - 2013.05.14 23:00:00 -
[45] - Quote
The cost of the clones does not need to be lowered (it's not a bad move if it is though) however the main issue is the cost of implants which is the main detrimental factor for PvP.
Allow us to jump into a jump clone that is at the same station for an ISK fee even if we have a JC timer already running. Jumping into same-station clone could reset the timer and the ISK fee could be equal to a medical clone cost. This change would really make the decision to participate in PvP easier. Inducing the proliferation of common sense throughout EVE Official forums since April 27th, 2013. |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
1727
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 23:01:00 -
[46] - Quote
If we remove clones as an ISK sink, what will replace it? Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
978
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 23:02:00 -
[47] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:If we remove clones as an ISK sink, what will replace it?
i dunno... perhaps pvp...
think of all those people who dont pvp that often now... all of a sudden you know playing the pvp game again... Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
483
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Posted - 2013.05.14 23:04:00 -
[48] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:Abrazzar wrote:If we remove clones as an ISK sink, what will replace it? i dunno... perhaps pvp... think of all those people who dont pvp that often now... all of a sudden you know playing the pvp game again...
While I fully support that more pvp is good, pvp is NOT an ISK sink. If anything PVP is an ISK faucet due to insurance. |
pmchem
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
481
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Posted - 2013.05.14 23:05:00 -
[49] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote: Something CCP is becoming more serious about (with Fozzie as one of the major champions) is making 'good' changes NOW even if there's some 'perfect' solution somewhere down the line that might take quite awhile to actually happen.
Did someone finally catch up to a 241-year-old work of Voltaire over there? |
Lithorn
The Dark Tribe
23
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Posted - 2013.05.14 23:08:00 -
[50] - Quote
Ruze wrote:Thank you. It really is one of the few things that make being a higher sp player worse than a new player. I've made alts to pvp with to avoid some of the cost of clones on alt character. Can we get insurance changes for tiericide ships, too? Cause they aren't adding up.
Bravo, I fully agree with this post, I do the same.
I wouldn't mind seeing a dramatic reduction or even just a flat cost to clone replacements up to about the 40m sp of say 500-900k ISK. After that a very gradual ratchet upward instead of the current system, which is kinda like going from 2-3m isk per a clone to very rapidly a 13-20+m ISK per a clone death. Maybe I want to PVP in a Rifter or Stealth Bomber or Interceptor- with my uber S.P. toon, my clone should not even come close to the cost of my ship... It's as if C.C.P is punishing us for perfecting our fitting and weapon skills or something. The ship cost and the various other things like cost of fittings, implants etc are sufficient ISK sinks by themselves. |
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MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
980
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 23:08:00 -
[51] - Quote
chatgris wrote:MeBiatch wrote:Abrazzar wrote:If we remove clones as an ISK sink, what will replace it? i dunno... perhaps pvp... think of all those people who dont pvp that often now... all of a sudden you know playing the pvp game again... While I fully support that more pvp is good, pvp is NOT an ISK sink. If anything PVP is an ISK faucet due to insurance.
right tell that to my tech II ships... Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
Kata Amentis
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
70
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Posted - 2013.05.14 23:10:00 -
[52] - Quote
Draqone an'Alreigh wrote:The cost of the clones does not need to be lowered (it's not a bad move if it is though) however the main issue is the cost of implants which is the main detrimental factor for PvP.
Allow us to jump into a jump clone that is at the same station for an ISK fee even if we have a JC timer already running. Jumping into same-station clone could reset the timer and the ISK fee could be equal to a medical clone cost. This change would really make the decision to participate in PvP easier.
Implants are a choice (you might feel they are a requirement to compete potentially in whatever part of the game you play) but the clone cost isn't really a choice. It's a penalty to characters that have been around for a while. The only choice then is "when do I give up on this character's training and start training an alt to fly the smaller ships?" which is terrible design or only ever flying the bigger ships, which isn't in keeping with letting us play the game our way in our sandbox.
Just because you can fly all the ships in the game and use all the modules or whatever having spent years and years training the skills up doesn't mean you have a huge isk flow now. In all likelyhood you've got less since you have less time thanks to not being a 20 something with no attachments! lol
Curiosity killed the Kata...
... but being immortal he wasn't too worried about keeping a count. |
Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
2818
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Posted - 2013.05.14 23:12:00 -
[53] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:chatgris wrote:MeBiatch wrote:Abrazzar wrote:If we remove clones as an ISK sink, what will replace it? i dunno... perhaps pvp... think of all those people who dont pvp that often now... all of a sudden you know playing the pvp game again... While I fully support that more pvp is good, pvp is NOT an ISK sink. If anything PVP is an ISK faucet due to insurance. right tell that to my tech II ships...
Ok, MeBiatches tech II ships listen up- you are not an ISK sink. Sorry if this hurt your ego, however if you feel the need to sink some ISK, you can send it to me and I'll promise to sink it appropriately and promptly.
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
Lithorn
The Dark Tribe
23
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Posted - 2013.05.14 23:12:00 -
[54] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:chatgris wrote:MeBiatch wrote:Abrazzar wrote:If we remove clones as an ISK sink, what will replace it? i dunno... perhaps pvp... think of all those people who dont pvp that often now... all of a sudden you know playing the pvp game again... While I fully support that more pvp is good, pvp is NOT an ISK sink. If anything PVP is an ISK faucet due to insurance. right tell that to my tech II ships...
T3 and faction battleships don't get the insurance love either, many T2 ships get short changed also. So yes, actually the previous dude is wrong it is an ISK sink and a very good one too. |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
1727
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 23:13:00 -
[55] - Quote
chatgris wrote:MeBiatch wrote:Abrazzar wrote:If we remove clones as an ISK sink, what will replace it? i dunno... perhaps pvp... think of all those people who dont pvp that often now... all of a sudden you know playing the pvp game again... While I fully support that more pvp is good, pvp is NOT an ISK sink. If anything PVP is an ISK faucet due to insurance. Exactly. Hence my proposition to make clones a monthly subscription.
You pay your 32 million a month and you can die as often as you like. No need to get a new clone every time you die. If you get over a limit, the next clone subscription billed to you will increase automatically.
So you die that month 64664 time, alright 32 mil from you. If you don't die at all because you spend time missioning in high-sec, 32 mil from you.
This will keep the ISK sink intact, probably even increase it, and remove the drag and exponential cost for doing PvP in null.
You will still risk your implants, though. So let's have those produced, from high-sec LP store blueprints and low- and null-sec hacking sites and reverse engineering corpses. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
980
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 23:14:00 -
[56] - Quote
Roime wrote:MeBiatch wrote:chatgris wrote:MeBiatch wrote:Abrazzar wrote:If we remove clones as an ISK sink, what will replace it? i dunno... perhaps pvp... think of all those people who dont pvp that often now... all of a sudden you know playing the pvp game again... While I fully support that more pvp is good, pvp is NOT an ISK sink. If anything PVP is an ISK faucet due to insurance. right tell that to my tech II ships... Ok, MeBiatches tech II ships listen up- you are not an ISK sink. Sorry if this hurt your ego, however if you feel the need to sink some ISK, you can send it to me and I'll promise to sink it appropriately and promptly.
you know i read that sentence 5 times and i still have no clue what you are talking about... Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
mama guru
Thundercats The Initiative.
114
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Posted - 2013.05.14 23:15:00 -
[57] - Quote
I stopped piloting frigs ages ago because of clone and implant costs. This is a step in the right direction.
Personally i'd rather see the skillpoint coverage be removed and costs going up on buying implant slots for your current clone and jump clones. For example a clone with 10 implant slots would cost 50mil or something.
______
EVE online is the fishermans friend of MMO's. If it's too hard you are too weak. |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
982
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 23:17:00 -
[58] - Quote
if you are not going to make clones player made and have a dynamic market for them...
then the only other idea is james from razor...
pretty much you have one standard cost to insure your clone for 3 weeks... you can die as many times as you want and not loose sp as long as you are insured...
tbh i would much prefer player made clones but if not james idea is the only reasonable one. Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
Johann Rascali
Crunchy Crunchy Peregrine Nation
12
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Posted - 2013.05.14 23:19:00 -
[59] - Quote
Now, if the jump clone timer were made 3-4 hours instead of a day, I'd be happy. Long enough to keep "tactical" jumps to a minimum, short enough to let you do more than one specialized flight a day. |
Charlie Jacobson
98
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Posted - 2013.05.14 23:23:00 -
[60] - Quote
Lithorn wrote:MeBiatch wrote:chatgris wrote:MeBiatch wrote:Abrazzar wrote:If we remove clones as an ISK sink, what will replace it? i dunno... perhaps pvp... think of all those people who dont pvp that often now... all of a sudden you know playing the pvp game again... While I fully support that more pvp is good, pvp is NOT an ISK sink. If anything PVP is an ISK faucet due to insurance. right tell that to my tech II ships... T3 and faction battleships don't get the insurance love either, many T2 ships get short changed also. So yes, actually the previous dude is wrong it is an ISK sink and a very good one too.
No, sorry. Isk sinks remove isk from the game. PvP is a mineral sink. But even a low insurance payout is an isk faucet because it creates isk out of thin air. The isk you spend on buying ships go to other players, so apart from the broker's fee and sales tax, it is not removed from the game. |
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