Very happy about this.

Can't wait to see if it has an outward effect on people's attitude/willingness to pvp more often.

Its a start i guess.

So getting podded in 0.0 in a 1m frigate still costs me 32m.

30% is a good start, but I would love to see the increases when you get up to the next clone decreased as well

how is it that people have 100m sp and have so little money they still keep track of their money down to the tens of millions

like do they count their pennies when they get home every night irl

This.

Hell, EVE's economy and press releases need people to get out there and die in ships. Just make the clone costs 1 isk per level of clone. Stupidity Tax if you don't update it.

1 Aurum per clone level

CCP Rise - Why did you not remove them completely?

So getting podded in 0.0 in a 1m frigate still costs me 32m.

I'm with you. We talked about it a lot here, and we all would rather make this system better than strip it out completely. I know this is a careful first step, but trust me, we want to do more with it and this is a way for us to act in a more informed way when we are able to more, and in the mean time it eases the pain a bit for you guys.

Something CCP is becoming more serious about (with Fozzie as one of the major champions) is making 'good' changes NOW even if there's some 'perfect' solution somewhere down the line that might take quite awhile to actually happen.

If you have any feedback related to the clone system (especially in terms of how it affects your play-style) we would love to hear from you.

I'm with you. We talked about it a lot here, and we all would rather make this system better than strip it out completely. I know this is a careful first step, but trust me, we want to do more with it and this is a way for us to act in a more informed way when we are able to more, and in the mean time it eases the pain a bit for you guys.

Something CCP is becoming more serious about (with Fozzie as one of the major champions) is making 'good' changes NOW even if there's some 'perfect' solution somewhere down the line that might take quite awhile to actually happen.

[Proposal] Bubbles don't affect clones.

Discuss.

[Proposal] Bubbles don't affect clones.

Discuss.

CCP Rise - Why did you not remove them completely? Why just the 30%? Sure suicide podding across the game via the abuse of clone locations would need to be addressed, but solving that has several solutions that are acceptable.

[Proposal] Bubbles don't affect clones.

Discuss.

If we remove clones as an ISK sink, what will replace it?

i dunno... perhaps pvp...

think of all those people who dont pvp that often now... all of a sudden you know playing the pvp game again...

Something CCP is becoming more serious about (with Fozzie as one of the major champions) is making 'good' changes NOW even if there's some 'perfect' solution somewhere down the line that might take quite awhile to actually happen.

Thank you. It really is one of the few things that make being a higher sp player worse than a new player. I've made alts to pvp with to avoid some of the cost of clones on alt character.
Can we get insurance changes for tiericide ships, too? Cause they aren't adding up.

While I fully support that more pvp is good, pvp is NOT an ISK sink. If anything PVP is an ISK faucet due to insurance.

The cost of the clones does not need to be lowered (it's not a bad move if it is though) however the main issue is the cost of implants which is the main detrimental factor for PvP.

Allow us to jump into a jump clone that is at the same station for an ISK fee even if we have a JC timer already running. Jumping into same-station clone could reset the timer and the ISK fee could be equal to a medical clone cost. This change would really make the decision to participate in PvP easier.

right tell that to my tech II ships...

right tell that to my tech II ships...

While I fully support that more pvp is good, pvp is NOT an ISK sink. If anything PVP is an ISK faucet due to insurance.

Ok, MeBiatches tech II ships listen up- you are not an ISK sink. Sorry if this hurt your ego, however if you feel the need to sink some ISK, you can send it to me and I'll promise to sink it appropriately and promptly.

T3 and faction battleships don't get the insurance love either, many T2 ships get short changed also. So yes, actually the previous dude is wrong it is an ISK sink and a very good one too.

T3 and faction battleships don't get the insurance love either, many T2 ships get short changed also. So yes, actually the previous dude is wrong it is an ISK sink and a very good one too.

No, sorry. Isk sinks remove isk from the game. PvP is a mineral sink. But even a low insurance payout is an isk faucet because it creates isk out of thin air. The isk you spend on buying ships go to other players, so apart from the broker's fee and sales tax, it is not removed from the game.

This was something that WAS a concern in the past. However, recent skill book price adjustments more than made up for any damage we could do here in terms of ISK sink, so we can do whatever we want!

ah the difference between macro and micro economics...

on a personal (micro) level i dont have the isk anymore so its a sink in my pocket but on a marco level that isk went to someone else so its not gone... perspective is a btich.

CCP Rise -

• Is there any ideas within CCP what would entail a perfect clone system?
• Is having clone upgrades function as an ISK sink critical?
• If so can the sink be moved to another aspect of the game?

CCP Rise -

• Is there any ideas within CCP what would entail a perfect clone system?
• Is having clone upgrades function as an ISK sink critical?
• If so can the sink be moved to another aspect of the game?

To encourage PVP but keep the isk sink in place I would recommend a clone subscription option - unlimited clones for so much isk per month. Then Frigate wars here I come.

This is exactly how it should be done, IMO.
Keep the new costs, then when you get to the rework of clones turn it into a 90 day "subscription".
Your clone is up to date for 90 days or until you surpass the SP limit, no matter how many clones you lose over that period of time. Once the subscription period is over you revert to an alpha clone.

There are two things that would need to happen however to make this viable: players would require some method of maintaining their clone level if they're unable to dock in a station with a med bay (remotely upgrading them, for example), and making sure players get some notification so, for example, someone who logs into EVE after 3 months of being away undocks without realizing they're in an alpha clone, gets podded, and loses a whole bunch of SP.

Alternatively you could just remove clone costs entirely.

I`m sad when i see this type of forums around EVE .. ppl crying about clone price as they get more skill points . Having over 100mil Sp and go around in frigs that cost 1 mill.. how funny .. if your so keen on flying those rifters you should just play on 14 days trial , i bet that would shut you up ..
EVE is harsh and we like it like that , don`t make EVE go same direction as WoW ..

I`m sad when i see this type of forums around EVE .. ppl crying about clone price as they get more skill points . Having over 100mil Sp and go around in frigs that cost 1 mill.. how funny .. if your so keen on flying those rifters you should just play on 14 days trial , i bet that would shut you up ..
EVE is harsh and we like it like that , don`t make EVE go same direction as WoW ..

So basically, pay the new clone cost, and die as much as you want for 30 - 90 days. I like that.

I like it too, but it has its own problems, particularly for supercapital pilots, people who live in w-space, and people who go unsubscribed.

I suppose you could also have a mechanic that allows you to pay some multiple of ISK for that multiple of subscription time.
e.g. 14m isk insures 92.5m SP for 90 days, so 28m isk would insure 92.5m SP for 180 days, 56m isk for 360 days, etc.


The supercap and w-space problem could easily be fixed by allowing people to update their clones from the Character Sheet without ever having to be docked. I don't really get why being docked in a med clone station is a requirement. Of course changing your med clone station or creating a jump clone should require use of a station.

i dunno... perhaps pvp...

think of all those people who dont pvp that often now... all of a sudden you know playing the pvp game again...

ah the difference between macro and micro economics...

on a personal (micro) level i dont have the isk anymore so its a sink in my pocket but on a marco level that isk went to someone else so its not gone... perspective is a btich.

... Our hope is that through this first step we will be able to establish what (if any) effect clone prices have on player behavior...

I approve, though I think I'd rather see the clone system go away entirely. There's nothing quite like losing SP to make people epic ragequit.

-Liang

Exactly. Hence my proposition to make clones a monthly subscription.

You pay your 32 million a month and you can die as often as you like. No need to get a new clone every time you die. If you get over a limit, the next clone subscription billed to you will increase automatically.

So you die that month 64664 time, alright 32 mil from you. If you don't die at all because you spend time missioning in high-sec, 32 mil from you.

This will keep the ISK sink intact, probably even increase it, and remove the drag and exponential cost for doing PvP in null.

You will still risk your implants, though. So let's have those produced, from high-sec LP store blueprints and low- and null-sec hacking sites and reverse engineering corpses.

Clones (and implants) have always been a mechanic that turned me off of pvp and nullsec.

When I was a young player, I never went to nullsec because I did not want to slow down my training due to learning implants. PVP for me isn't a weekend thing, it's what I do nightly when I log in so jump clones did not solve this for me. I just stayed out of nullsec. Clone cost wasn't a big deal for me.

Now that I am a high SP player that likes to pvp frequently, I don't go to nullsec because I have an expensive clone. I also don't go because it would mean I would have to jump clone out of my hardwirings for 24 hours. When I pvp, I enjoy pvp where I have a good chance to lose my ship, and in nullsec with bubbles, that generally means a dead pod.

Finally, on the topic: The current system to save your clone in lowsec which is spam the warpout button with all your might as you hit structure is awful. It ruins the enjoyment of the last part of the fight, makes you turn off explosions and notifications so you don't get lag during those precious fractions of a second as you are trying to warp your pod out. Noobs who don't know any better lose (for them) expensive learning implants, and get turned off of pvp. I am strongly of the opinion that if you lose a ship, your pod should immediately begin an emergency warp to a random safespot (in nullsec, a bubble would prevent you from doing this). There is no "skill" in spamming the warpout button as fast as you can to keep your clone, it just detracts from the combat.

I know I deviated off the original request for feedback, but it is related. IMO, Lowsec is so much more alive for pvp than nullsec because lowsec is about pvp, while nullsec is about controlling territory. And if you pvp, a large part of that is generally reducing the cost of loss so you can fight more.

In lowsec:

a) Bubbles don't exist, people can move freely and generally choose not to engage in combat when they are at a stupid disadvantage (And the RSB nerf will help here too).
b) In lowsec you get to keep training, keep some hardwirings, and not pay clone costs once you figure out how to spam the warpout button on your pod


Another suggestion could be that in addition to the removal of clone costs, the jump clone timer could be based on the distance you travel. If for example, you are jump cloning within the exact same system, there's no cooldown timer so you can decide "I'm going on a nullsec roam, and when i come back I can continue to train with my implants in". The further between your jump clones, the longer the timer before you can jump again.

CCP Rise,

If you don't want to get rid of the Clone system, I believe i have a solution.

Simply make it so that when you upgrade your Clone its a one time payment and you have that Clone Grade permanently and don't need to refresh it after being podded, to regulate this you could make the Clones cost say 20-30% more seeing as your only having to pay for a specific Clone Grade once.

I like this idea. At least the part about the clones. I have a different issue with implants (namely that stats still exist at all) but if you're flying with hardwirings, you're paying for an extra edge in combat and should risk it as a result.

CCP Rise,

If you don't want to get rid of the Clone system, I believe i have a solution.

Simply make it so that when you upgrade your Clone its a one time payment and you have that Clone Grade permanently and don't need to refresh it after being podded, to regulate this you could make the Clones cost say 20-30% more seeing as your only having to pay for a specific Clone Grade once.

paying for clone one time until i reach the SP limit yes im all up for that

and another idea Passive generation of SP just like in Dust as an extra for us ontop of the current system not a replacement
nothing more then fair as eve capsuleers pay for the game and dust are not

and would aid the militairy personnel on deployment i myself have been deployed multiple times and training about 30 to 40 days only before you stop for about 4 a 5 months before you have the chance to get back to the game to skilltrain
knowing quite a bunch of militairy personnel in this game it would aid not just them but everyone else aswell
and there are more scenario's probabbly the eve community can bring up that a little sp gain over time ontop of the currently active learning system would not hurt to much but a nice addition

dust SP generates 86.400 SP per 24 hours wich is 31.536.000 skillpoints per year
idea in EVE passive generation of 27.397 SP per 24 hours would result in a gain of 10.000.000 SP a year that will be able to allocate after buying a skillbook but still needs normal training of skills to stay in a normal pace in general

just a little boost for us paying capsuleers and an aid for people that have jobs limiting them from skill training at a constant rate like the majority of the eve community

If ships were free, and you would get to keep all your mods after getting blown up, people would also PVP more.

Imagine how awesome that would be!

Time for a BS sized fleet tackler.
Go on CCP, time to expand the e-war battleship range.

My main is in the (un)enviable position of needed 65 mill clones at the moment. However the biggest impediment against joining a tech 1 frig gang is that all my clones have mind links of one favour or another and the fact that I need to wait 24 hours between clone jumps.

I would happy pay the current clone cost if either of these issues could be addressed.

Just remove them completely and move the ISK sink somewhere else related to the cost of ships. That way it scales on the ship risked in combat instead of how long the player has been subscribed to the game.

I wrote an article on why clone costs need to be removed completely HERE. Of course ignore the idea of the insurance removal in it.

Something CCP is becoming more serious about (with Fozzie as one of the major champions) is making 'good' changes NOW even if there's some 'perfect' solution somewhere down the line that might take quite awhile to actually happen.

I just saw (thanks Reddit) that the clone cost adjustment for Odyssey went to Singularity with the latest update. I didn't realize this would happen so quickly and I didn't have a post ready so I'm throwing this up in the middle of the night!

Basically, for Odyssey we are lowering the cost of clone upgrades across the board by 30%. This is meant as the first increment on a more thorough iteration on the clone system. Our hope is that through this first step we will be able to establish what (if any) effect clone prices have on player behavior. If you have any feedback related to the clone system (especially in terms of how it affects your play-style) we would love to hear from you.

I'm sure image links are usually not ideal for dev posts, but it is the middle of the night, so here is a screen shot of the new clone prices proposed for Odyssey: CLONES

Yours,
CCP Rise

CAN I GET A HALLELUIAH!

Yes, you can.

Let's analyze your case for a moment. Your problem is that you don't like the 45mil ISK loss resulting from the loss of your clone, and that puts you off from PVPing with that high-SP character. You have solved the problem by creating a lower SP alt.

Results:

+ you get to PVP
+ others get to PVP with your alt
+ CCP got another account

Honestly, what is the worst thing that could happen if you 100% remove the clone upgrade cost and put the location of our respawn when we are podded on a 24 hour cooldown timer so that can't be abused. Seriously, what is the worst that will happen??

The entire player base has fun?

You see, when high-SP and low-SP players are dueling for example, it's obvious that a newer player is in disadvantage - his tank is weaker, guns miss often etc. This is a bit "compensated" by higher clone costs for a veteran if he manages to loose the fight.
Also, EVE is a sandbox and economy should interfere with PVP. You may have heard that miners, manufacturers and other "carebears" are despised by the ilitist breed. Removing clone costs would emphasize that attitude even futher.

And no, the fun is there only when stakes are high.

Did I answer your question?

You see, when high-SP and low-SP players are dueling for example, it's obvious that a newer player is in disadvantage - his tank is weaker, guns miss often etc. This is a bit "compensated" by higher clone costs for a veteran if he manages to loose the fight.
Also, EVE is a sandbox and economy should interfere with PVP. You may have heard that miners, manufacturers and other "carebears" are despised by the ilitist breed. Removing clone costs would emphasize that attitude even futher.

And no, the fun is there only when stakes are high.

Did I answer your question?

There is a hard cap on the advantage from character skills in any given ship.

Older players can have max skills in numerous other ships as well, but they don't help one bit in your duel example.

Great start, but Im still not puting a 120m SP character into an interdictor.

Which is pretty high. While not that high for frigates, I should agree, but still quite a lot. Me, for example, still dont have good navigation skills while I'm well above 40 mil SP, gunnery is not too strong as well, drones sux, armor tank could be better. And almost zero in leadership - it's not applicable for duels, but deuling was just an example.

So they can fly a mining barge maybe? Did you read my words after "dueling"? Older players have more possibilities to make ISK, and if they choose not to do that - they should suffer. Sandbox and stuff.

A step in the right direction CCP. My clone still cost 21mill after the reduction though. Please lower price even more.

Do you know at least why those fees were introduced?

Older players shouldn't be forced to grind more just for having more SP. Forcing people into PVE, even indirectly, is against the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

but in the end there's a simple truth in EVE- the more you play, the less time and effort you are interested putting into ISK-making, since the most fun thing you can do in game is the good old ultraviolence.

Not as a disincentive to PVP, which is what it is.

I laugh at people who say "ban suicide gankers, I want a safe place to mine".
I laugh at people who say "free ships and clones for everyone, I dont want to mess with isk making".
Guess why? Because it's sandbox.
Jeez, 4th time in row I have to mention this!

I'm with you. We talked about it a lot here, and we all would rather make this system better than strip it out completely. I know this is a careful first step, but trust me, we want to do more with it and this is a way for us to act in a more informed way when we are able to more, and in the mean time it eases the pain a bit for you guys.

Now you're just trolling. There is nothing sandbox about taxing a player out of cheap ships and fun fights it is the exact opposite.

This is a good start. Reduce clone costs to 0, add 5 to each attribute, and remove learning implants. That will remove the pvp disincentives. To compensate for the sink put out some cool new implants and increase market fees.

...Shelling out 30M in a frig / cruiser roam for a clone blows...

So getting podded in 0.0 in a 1m frigate still costs me 32m.

On those Cruisers, how much are you paying for your ship and fittings?

The topic isnt about the ship or fittings, its about the clones and the costs associated with replacing one.

Please remove learning implants (give everyone the equivalent of +5s). If isk sinks are needed to counteract that, do whatever. Learning implants are the only reason I dont pvp.

Another suggestion could be that in addition to the removal of clone costs, the jump clone timer could be based on the distance you travel. If for example, you are jump cloning within the exact same system, there's no cooldown timer so you can decide "I'm going on a nullsec roam, and when i come back I can continue to train with my implants in". The further between your jump clones, the longer the timer before you can jump again.

...I think the solution to this problem could be found by doing the opposite. Each clone upgrade to the next level should cost x more times what it costs today, then any clone replacement should cost a base fee of 1M isk. We shift the cost structure for the moment of the upgrade and that is it...

Something CCP is becoming more serious about (with Fozzie as one of the major champions) is making 'good' changes NOW even if there's some 'perfect' solution somewhere down the line that might take quite awhile to actually happen.

The effects of this wont reveal themselves quickly, but over time new players will find themselves even more shut out and will perhaps just start avoiding all fights with high SP chars. We see this already in most instances where highsec merc corps wardec non PvP oriented corps. Power creep is already to the point that it is limiting PvP.

one step closer.

So when are we going to do away with learning implants?

Disclaimer: I hate bubbles, and want nothing to do with them.

Bubbles make sense in Nullsec: Nullsec isn't about fighting, it's about territory control. As such, it makes sense to have bubbles trap pods (which I assume is what you meant when you said clones).

It's got a nice division: If you want to shoot stuff in spaceships, generally you come to lowsec. If you want to play a more strategic game of risk, you go to nullsec.

lololwut?

[Proposal] Bubbles don't affect clones.

Discuss.

I have no problem paying 20 mil for my clone when I die in a battleship.
But if i die 10 times in a rifter and get podded each time, it's kinda defeating the purpose of the game. The clone costs is currently a detergent to the sandbox of playing the game you want.
Maybe the clone cost could be a funtion of your ships cost (to retain the isk sink) OR just a redution to 1/10th, so a 20 mil clone would costs 2 instead.

a 30% reduction is still expensive.

this might sound crazy but you scrubs need to earn some isk

Yes if all the ships and pods were free more people might pvp, but that is going in the wrong direction.

TLDR : New players want to get into fights and blow stuff up. They currently do pretty poorly partly because of power creep. Lowering clone costs compounds creep which will eventually lead to disengagement with the game.

Fleet tactics should not rely on a material disparity. A well organized, competently lead team needs to win sometimes even if they are outgunned on a SP or ISK level. The reward of Eve should be in working together and engaging.

Now my clone costs less than my interceptor. YAYYYYYYYYYY.

Economical balance. See Dr. Ejyo's presentation from 2012.

TLDR : New players want to get into fights and blow stuff up. They currently do pretty poorly partly because of power creep. Lowering clone costs compounds creep which will eventually lead to disengagement with the game.

Fleet tactics should not rely on a material disparity. A well organized, competently lead team needs to win sometimes even if they are outgunned on a SP or ISK level. The reward of Eve should be in working together and engaging.

You should be arguing for cheaper clones then. Lower SP players would do better if higher SP players are in smaller more fragile cheap ships surely, at the moment I may as well go for bigger/shinier ship because hell i'm already risking 30+m isk before I pick a ship.

I love the idea of your clone scaling with your ship loss. The hard part is associating the two. You'd almost be replacing the idea of podding by removing it. That's not great.

Really, you need to satisfy three sides:

• Dead pods: Give a reason to kill pods and cause grief. If it's not worth killing people's pods, just remove them from the game.
• Improve PVP: Make it easier for people to pvp, even if they have skill bonus implants (ick, dump them). Hardwiring people are paying for the bonuses, so obviously would lose hardwirings when they die. Mindlinks, I'm torn on, just because they're grossly undersupplied due to how they're currently being distributed, like Level 4 missions need bonuses like this.
• Isk sink: I have no idea how deep this isk sink is, but I would guess someone could pull that number.

I love the idea of your clone scaling with your ship loss...

I'm with you. We talked about it a lot here, and we all would rather make this system better than strip it out completely.

I'm with you. We talked about it a lot here, and we all would rather make this system better than strip it out completely. I know this is a careful first step, but trust me, we want to do more with it and this is a way for us to act in a more informed way when we are able to more, and in the mean time it eases the pain a bit for you guys.

Something CCP is becoming more serious about (with Fozzie as one of the major champions) is making 'good' changes NOW even if there's some 'perfect' solution somewhere down the line that might take quite awhile to actually happen.

Player made clones? Some PI thing on temperate planets. Top end clone should run about 1 mil ISK.

If you want to keep clone costs in the game, fine. Just add in clone "levels," whereby when I purchase the next level of clone, then I get that clone in perpetuity upon podding until I pass the next sp benchmark and buy the upgrade. But it still wouldn't be compelling; it'd just be an isk sink.

If you want to keep clone costs in the game, fine. Just add in clone "levels," whereby when I purchase the next level of clone, then I get that clone in perpetuity upon podding until I pass the next sp benchmark and buy the upgrade. But it still wouldn't be compelling; it'd just be an isk sink.

Its a start i guess.

Your position assumes that the combat event has no meaning or consequences beyond the engagement itself. High skill point characters will certainly be more aggressive if their cost for doing so is lowered. Of course aggression without risk will win, this is the danger of all unfettered opportunism, it works well for those on top but ultimately destroys the environment below.

No, I would prefer that you bring the bling, better KM for me and greater loss for you. Clone costs should be tripled and SP should transfer from high chars to low ones in the event of pod kill.

It's true that high skill point characters will be more aggressive, but their effective SP caps out at a certain point. If I am flying a Slasher, my missile skills, battleship skills, cruiser skills, t2 lasers, and leadership skills are all completely irrelevant to the fight. Of my ~22m SP, only 7,329,454 would help me fly a slasher, and that's being generous. On the other hand, I haven't specialized for flying slashers at all.

Given my admittedly inferior piloting skills when it comes to solo PvP, a newer slasher pilot than I would likely be able to take me in a 1v1. In a similar ship class fight, knowing your ship's strengths and weaknesses more than your opponent does counts for a lot. My aggressiveness and my willingness to take on risk mean that that newer pilot will have more targets to fight, and if they're at the same ship class and lose, the pilot can't blame my horrifically superior setup. The dudes in frigates and dessies who trashed my early solo frigate attempts taught me a lot about the value of a well-flown, well-fitted frigate, and I learned a lot from those encounters despite never winning a single one.

Not to mention that while I was learning to FC, my fellow pilots' clone costs were bringing down the sizes of my fleets. "Let's all go welp some ships" sounds a lot less attractive when you're gonna welp your pod as well, so there's less incentive to give someone who might not be as competent a chance to learn.

No one that I have seen is advocating free ships,

...they are after freedom to choose the amount of ISK they risk when they undock .....The only plus point for high clone costs is that it gives some consequence to the pod express and power projection, apart from that I see none,

The argument is the same. We want more pvp so reduce the consequences.

Jump cloning up for PvP generates at least two possible losses. An ISK loss if the PvP clone itself is podded and the training loss when you jump out of your super expensive learning clone for at least 24 hours.

A PvP clone loss is not a big deal if your space rich but I find the mandatory 24 hours of suboptimal training very annoying since it means a PvP roam will not only slow down my improvement but also requires me to make a log in appoint 24 hours hence to jump back into the training clone. PvP shouldnGÇÖt inhibit oneGÇÖs training. Some way around the current 24 hour inhibition that doesnGÇÖt break the game would be appreciated.

(IGÇÖm aware I can PvP in my super expensive training clone and while implants can be replaced the humiliation at losing such a clone lasts forever.)

So tell me how much SP gain you lose when spending 24 hours in a clone with +3s or +4s instead +5s?

The best way to make the clone mechanic compelling is to make it so SP is lost upon pod death. This is how I would implement it.

1. Upon a pod death character loses x% of total skill points from the skill with the most SP invested.
2. Character gets a certain "tax" free amount (for instance the first 10 million SP) to which no SP loss can occur.
3. Pods are immune to all forms of non targeted warp disruption.

So this would work in a similar way to how T3 cruiser SP loss occurs. This change would simultaneously also fix a number of issues and add to better gameplay on a number of levels.

1. Bounty hunting profession could be tied to a pod kill, and achieving a pod kill would have a tangible in game affect on your opponent.
2. The ever increasing SP grind could be slowed slightly by total SP pool of characters in general being lowered.

I don't think the SP penalty should be too harsh, particularly not for a newer player who is still below 50 million SP for example, but harsh enough to make a pod death more meaningful as I feel was originally intended for the game.

Why don't we just remove jump clones completely and allow everyone to freely teleport any where on the map. I mean, it kind of annoys me that I cant do 2 specialised ops in a day and be back home in time for tea. *sarcasm mode off*

I fully agree with you. On demand teleport is game breaking. What annoys me is the fact that current mechanics well-nigh require PvP pilots to literally choose to be comparatively stupid; especially if they want to PvP a lot. IGÇÖd like to see a fix to that very particular perverse incentive.

I just saw (thanks Reddit) that the clone cost adjustment for Odyssey went to Singularity with the latest update. I didn't realize this would happen so quickly and I didn't have a post ready so I'm throwing this up in the middle of the night!

Basically, for Odyssey we are lowering the cost of clone upgrades across the board by 30%. This is meant as the first increment on a more thorough iteration on the clone system. Our hope is that through this first step we will be able to establish what (if any) effect clone prices have on player behavior. If you have any feedback related to the clone system (especially in terms of how it affects your play-style) we would love to hear from you.

I'm sure image links are usually not ideal for dev posts, but it is the middle of the night, so here is a screen shot of the new clone prices proposed for Odyssey: CLONES

Yours,
CCP Rise

I've never bothered to figure it out.

How can you with a straight face complain about everybody going carebear and then propose a system like this?
All this would achieve is to make risk averse players even more risk averse and create more carebearing.

Your system actualy rewards carebearing over those who constantly get podded in pvp fights.

Very good post

I'll be contrarian voice here and say I don't think clone cost reduction is a good idea.

Fundamental principle of EvE design is that defeat matters, this is what makes it distinct among MMO on the market. If one loses as ship, that ship is gone for good, and all the time spent to acquire that ship is waisted. This is what gives meaning and significance EvE pvp.

Price we pay when we get poded is just an extension of that principle, and removing or even reducing that price establishes dangerous precedent as it is contrary to before mentioned design principle.

Also escalating price of clone with increasing clone XP can also be viewed as extension of another eve game balance principle, that small improvement in power come with disproportionally large increase in cost. This is why BC will cost 5 to 10 times price of cruiser despite providing much smaller increase in combat utility. Same is the reason why Jaguar or Wolf cost 50 times more then Rifer. So by extension it is only right and proper that more powerful clones (with more XP) will cost drastically more then less powerful clones (those of n00bs with less XP).

I would warn CCP designers to be wary of changes that would diminish impact of loss, on any level , being it losing space, losing ship or losing clone.

That said there are some things that could be improved when it comes to game clone mechanics. I think some boring and tedious parts of manipulating them should be automatised. For example when I want to plug an implant why do I have to go through ritual of pausing skill learning, plugging whatever I want to plugin, then restarting skill queue? When I get podded why do I have to manually update my clone, can't that be done automatically with normal ISK cost being detracted form my wallet? When I clone jump why do I also have to do boring ritual of going to pod, pausing skill queue, jumping, restarting skill queue and then opening again munch of my station interface windows because for some stupid reason they close down when I clonejump?

So yes there are improvements to be made with clone mechanics, but those are not on the line of making combat defeat and loss of pod less sigificant events. Keep it real!