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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Vayn Baxtor
Community for Justice R O G U E
50
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Posted - 2013.05.15 04:11:00 -
[91] - Quote
Sorry for saying this but : Frakk-YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES
Thank you.
It is a first step, but this is probably the main thang I will be happy about for Odyssey. Using tablet, typoes are common and I'm not going to fix them all. |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1126
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 04:30:00 -
[92] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:chatgris wrote:MeBiatch wrote:Abrazzar wrote:If we remove clones as an ISK sink, what will replace it? i dunno... perhaps pvp... think of all those people who dont pvp that often now... all of a sudden you know playing the pvp game again... While I fully support that more pvp is good, pvp is NOT an ISK sink. If anything PVP is an ISK faucet due to insurance. Exactly. Hence my proposition to make clones a monthly subscription. You pay your 32 million a month and you can die as often as you like. No need to get a new clone every time you die. If you get over a limit, the next clone subscription billed to you will increase automatically. So you die that month 64664 time, alright 32 mil from you. If you don't die at all because you spend time missioning in high-sec, 32 mil from you. This will keep the ISK sink intact, probably even increase it, and remove the drag and exponential cost for doing PvP in null. You will still risk your implants, though. So let's have those produced, from high-sec LP store blueprints and low- and null-sec hacking sites and reverse engineering corpses.
I like this idea. At least the part about the clones. I have a different issue with implants (namely that stats still exist at all) but if you're flying with hardwirings, you're paying for an extra edge in combat and should risk it as a result. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Aglais
Liberation Army Li3 Federation
278
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Posted - 2013.05.15 04:42:00 -
[93] - Quote
This is excellent. Everything about this particular change is excellent. |
Throktar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
16
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Posted - 2013.05.15 04:55:00 -
[94] - Quote
chatgris wrote:CCP Rise wrote:If you have any feedback related to the clone system (especially in terms of how it affects your play-style) we would love to hear from you. Clones (and implants) have always been a mechanic that turned me off of pvp and nullsec. When I was a young player, I never went to nullsec because I did not want to slow down my training due to learning implants. PVP for me isn't a weekend thing, it's what I do nightly when I log in so jump clones did not solve this for me. I just stayed out of nullsec. Clone cost wasn't a big deal for me. Now that I am a high SP player that likes to pvp frequently, I don't go to nullsec because I have an expensive clone. I also don't go because it would mean I would have to jump clone out of my hardwirings for 24 hours. When I pvp, I enjoy pvp where I have a good chance to lose my ship, and in nullsec with bubbles, that generally means a dead pod. Finally, on the topic: The current system to save your clone in lowsec which is spam the warpout button with all your might as you hit structure is awful. It ruins the enjoyment of the last part of the fight, makes you turn off explosions and notifications so you don't get lag during those precious fractions of a second as you are trying to warp your pod out. Noobs who don't know any better lose (for them) expensive learning implants, and get turned off of pvp. I am strongly of the opinion that if you lose a ship, your pod should immediately begin an emergency warp to a random safespot (in nullsec, a bubble would prevent you from doing this). There is no "skill" in spamming the warpout button as fast as you can to keep your clone, it just detracts from the combat. I know I deviated off the original request for feedback, but it is related. IMO, Lowsec is so much more alive for pvp than nullsec because lowsec is about pvp, while nullsec is about controlling territory. And if you pvp, a large part of that is generally reducing the cost of loss so you can fight more. In lowsec: a) Bubbles don't exist, people can move freely and generally choose not to engage in combat when they are at a stupid disadvantage (And the RSB nerf will help here too). b) In lowsec you get to keep training, keep some hardwirings, and not pay clone costs once you figure out how to spam the warpout button on your pod Another suggestion could be that in addition to the removal of clone costs, the jump clone timer could be based on the distance you travel. If for example, you are jump cloning within the exact same system, there's no cooldown timer so you can decide "I'm going on a nullsec roam, and when i come back I can continue to train with my implants in". The further between your jump clones, the longer the timer before you can jump again.
This is me also. I only do my pvp in low sec simply because of implants and clones. I can pvp in low sec in my main body with all my wonderful implants with no real worry about getting podded.
The only solutions I can come up with would be allowing you to buy insurance for your pod that automatically fits your new clone with your attribute only implants. This way you would still lose all your other implants, but at least yo can keep your +5's or your set implants. This way you can remove the clone costs almost entirely and use this as a new isk sink. I mean if you are already a high SP player and are paying lets say 30m in clone costs, I bet you wouldn't mind that cost if you could keep your attribute implants. |
Grunnax Aurelius
luna Oscura Clandestina Armada The Nightingales of Hades
119
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Posted - 2013.05.15 04:59:00 -
[95] - Quote
CCP Rise,
If you don't want to get rid of the Clone system, I believe i have a solution.
Simply make it so that when you upgrade your Clone its a one time payment and you have that Clone Grade permanently and don't need to refresh it after being podded, to regulate this you could make the Clones cost say 20-30% more seeing as your only having to pay for a specific Clone Grade once. Two Teir Carriers-áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=207604&find=unread |
Ruze
Next Stage Initiative Trans-Stellar Industries
244
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 05:02:00 -
[96] - Quote
Grunnax Aurelius wrote:CCP Rise,
If you don't want to get rid of the Clone system, I believe i have a solution.
Simply make it so that when you upgrade your Clone its a one time payment and you have that Clone Grade permanently and don't need to refresh it after being podded, to regulate this you could make the Clones cost say 20-30% more seeing as your only having to pay for a specific Clone Grade once.
So you don't pay for another clone until you have to upgrade? Not a bad idea, either. Increase the cost per clone, sure, but then your free until you get that next clone level. If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality.-á That 'griefer/thief' is probably more sane than you are.-á How screwed up is that? |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
4973
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 05:08:00 -
[97] - Quote
Here is a overall future vision plan for the entire clone system.
Remove medical clones and jump clones from the game entirely and replace them with a new and exciting item called "clones". These clones can then be bought and they function like current jump clones with two exceptions. First, when people get podded they'll lose the clone they used permanently, which ensures a constant demand for the things and allows you to make them player build items at some point. Use the current jump clone skills to limit the number of clones a player can own. Second, players can choose to be respawned in a clone he owns instead of a medical facility. If respawn happen in a med facility, you need to buy a new clone insurance. If it happens to a clone, there is no cost, but you're forced to choose a new spawn location, since the current clone is in use and no longer available as a spawn location. This creates new tactical options, which also help to increase the demand for bought clones instead of just relying on NPC medical services.
I think this system has several advantages over the current system. First being, that having medical clones and jump clones different items can be confusing and it's an unnecessary thing in the first place. Second, it allows new tactical possibilities. Third, it paves the way to player produced clones, ensures a demand for them and still retains the NPC service to ensure clones are always available for everyone, while allowing CCP to exert control over the system by manipulating the NPC price for clones. It also allows a permanent solution to the ridiculous medical clones cost growth by removing them from the game entirely. Instead we would have one item for all and players under certain SP level would get one for free when respawning at a medical facility. No clone grades, no multiple different clone types. Just clones, which can easily be player manufactured at a cost below the CCP controlled price level, so there is room for profit making with increased tactical options and demand for the player manufactured item, but also control to ensure game stability and playability for everyone.
I'm well aware this might be drastically over your capabilities or intentions for the clone system, but I'm posting it anyway to get people really thinking what the clone system is for and what it could possibly be in the future. Whatever you decide to do don't try to retain the old system just for the sake of retaining it. If you can come up with a better system, bring it to us for discussion/hole poking and if it survives the process in good shape, go for it. No need to keep the old system just for the sake of tradition.
Thanks for your time. |
Gelatine
EverBroke Geeks
16
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Posted - 2013.05.15 05:24:00 -
[98] - Quote
mynnna wrote:I like this idea. At least the part about the clones. I have a different issue with implants (namely that stats still exist at all) but if you're flying with hardwirings, you're paying for an extra edge in combat and should risk it as a result.
I like the idea too, but most carebears I've spoken to are more worried about their skill queue than anything. Expensive implants=no PvP because they don't want to lose any time getting "to the next level." I hope doing something about implants gets on this years CSM agenda. |
Bakuhz
The Nightingales of Hades Holdings The Nightingales of Hades
21
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Posted - 2013.05.15 05:36:00 -
[99] - Quote
Grunnax Aurelius wrote:CCP Rise,
If you don't want to get rid of the Clone system, I believe i have a solution.
Simply make it so that when you upgrade your Clone its a one time payment and you have that Clone Grade permanently and don't need to refresh it after being podded, to regulate this you could make the Clones cost say 20-30% more seeing as your only having to pay for a specific Clone Grade once.
paying for clone one time until i reach the SP limit yes im all up for that
and another idea Passive generation of SP just like in Dust as an extra for us ontop of the current system not a replacement nothing more then fair as eve capsuleers pay for the game and dust are not
and would aid the militairy personnel on deployment i myself have been deployed multiple times and training about 30 to 40 days only before you stop for about 4 a 5 months before you have the chance to get back to the game to skilltrain knowing quite a bunch of militairy personnel in this game it would aid not just them but everyone else aswell and there are more scenario's probabbly the eve community can bring up that a little sp gain over time ontop of the currently active learning system would not hurt to much but a nice addition
dust SP generates 86.400 SP per 24 hours wich is 31.536.000 skillpoints per year idea in EVE passive generation of 27.397 SP per 24 hours would result in a gain of 10.000.000 SP a year that will be able to allocate after buying a skillbook but still needs normal training of skills to stay in a normal pace in general
just a little boost for us paying capsuleers and an aid for people that have jobs limiting them from skill training at a constant rate like the majority of the eve community http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Bakuhz#kills |
Grunnax Aurelius
luna Oscura Clandestina Armada The Nightingales of Hades
120
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Posted - 2013.05.15 05:41:00 -
[100] - Quote
Bakuhz wrote:Grunnax Aurelius wrote:CCP Rise,
If you don't want to get rid of the Clone system, I believe i have a solution.
Simply make it so that when you upgrade your Clone its a one time payment and you have that Clone Grade permanently and don't need to refresh it after being podded, to regulate this you could make the Clones cost say 20-30% more seeing as your only having to pay for a specific Clone Grade once. paying for clone one time until i reach the SP limit yes im all up for that and another idea Passive generation of SP just like in Dust as an extra for us ontop of the current system not a replacement nothing more then fair as eve capsuleers pay for the game and dust are not and would aid the militairy personnel on deployment i myself have been deployed multiple times and training about 30 to 40 days only before you stop for about 4 a 5 months before you have the chance to get back to the game to skilltrain knowing quite a bunch of militairy personnel in this game it would aid not just them but everyone else aswell and there are more scenario's probabbly the eve community can bring up that a little sp gain over time ontop of the currently active learning system would not hurt to much but a nice addition dust SP generates 86.400 SP per 24 hours wich is 31.536.000 skillpoints per year idea in EVE passive generation of 27.397 SP per 24 hours would result in a gain of 10.000.000 SP a year that will be able to allocate after buying a skillbook but still needs normal training of skills to stay in a normal pace in general just a little boost for us paying capsuleers and an aid for people that have jobs limiting them from skill training at a constant rate like the majority of the eve community
Of this I Approve!!! Two Teir Carriers-áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=207604&find=unread |
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Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
2821
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 06:05:00 -
[101] - Quote
If ships were free, and you would get to keep all your mods after getting blown up, people would also PVP more.
Imagine how awesome that would be!
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
Bakuhz
The Nightingales of Hades Holdings The Nightingales of Hades
21
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Posted - 2013.05.15 06:20:00 -
[102] - Quote
Roime wrote:If ships were free, and you would get to keep all your mods after getting blown up, people would also PVP more.
Imagine how awesome that would be!
no wow throws holy water at Roime
the butterfly effect
it would lose the the whole idea of loss has meaning in eve wich is why we still play it
NOO!!! to this http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Bakuhz#kills |
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate
1135
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 06:27:00 -
[103] - Quote
Always something
But yea i like it. |
Idicious Lightbane
Wolfsbrigade Lost Obsession
43
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Posted - 2013.05.15 07:02:00 -
[104] - Quote
Liner Xiandra wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:So getting podded in 0.0 in a 1m frigate still costs me 32m. Time for a BS sized fleet tackler. Go on CCP, time to expand the e-war battleship range.
It's called a Proteus + Loki/Vindi |
Hashi Lebwohl
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
29
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Posted - 2013.05.15 07:05:00 -
[105] - Quote
My main is in the (un)enviable position of needed 65 mill clones at the moment. However the biggest impediment against joining a tech 1 frig gang is that all my clones have mind links of one favour or another and the fact that I need to wait 24 hours between clone jumps.
I would happy pay the current clone cost if either of these issues could be addressed. |
Kerdrak
D00M. Northern Coalition.
56
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 07:32:00 -
[106] - Quote
Making PvP cheaper doesn't make it more attractive, one of the reasons that makes EVE Online so awesome is the penalty of dying in PVP.
I don't really care about losing a 30 or 50m isk pod.
If you want to make PvP more attractive you have to favor engages. As a veteran player, the thing that makes me undock and go for a fight is a guaranteed engage. On the other hand, travelling 20 jumps to find a fight is not attractive (maybe clonejumps are more importante here) |
Qual
Cornexant Research Sleeping Dragons
28
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Posted - 2013.05.15 08:02:00 -
[107] - Quote
Hashi Lebwohl wrote:My main is in the (un)enviable position of needed 65 mill clones at the moment. However the biggest impediment against joining a tech 1 frig gang is that all my clones have mind links of one favour or another and the fact that I need to wait 24 hours between clone jumps.
I would happy pay the current clone cost if either of these issues could be addressed.
How about a new mechanic: Clone Switching
Clone Switching would only be available between clones in the same station and would be unlimited. So you could travel to a station where you have a clone without implants and switch to it, take out for a frig roam, go back and switch to your implanted clone when done without restrictions. This could nicely be expanded to have clones as a market item like shuttles, at the cost of making the current requirement of standing for making jump clone obsolete. (Of course these buy clones would have ranks and costs similar to now. NPC supplied if you want to keep the ISK sink.)
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Takanuro
The Amarrian Expendables
27
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Posted - 2013.05.15 08:05:00 -
[108] - Quote
30% off is a great, but for players with about 50m+ SP I think the amount it scales up for each Clone bracket should be reduced.
Yes, we're going to die, but you're coming with us!
The Amarrian Expendables are Recruiting |
Hikaru Kuroda
Shimai of New Eden
93
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 08:07:00 -
[109] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:Just remove them completely and move the ISK sink somewhere else related to the cost of ships. That way it scales on the ship risked in combat instead of how long the player has been subscribed to the game. I wrote an article on why clone costs need to be removed completely HERE. Of course ignore the idea of the insurance removal in it.
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Ivana Twinkle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
346
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Posted - 2013.05.15 08:48:00 -
[110] - Quote
I have no problem paying 20 mil for my clone when I die in a battleship. But if i die 10 times in a rifter and get podded each time, it's kinda defeating the purpose of the game. The clone costs is currently a detergent to the sandbox of playing the game you want. Maybe the clone cost could be a funtion of your ships cost (to retain the isk sink) OR just a redution to 1/10th, so a 20 mil clone would costs 2 instead. |
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SilentStryder
Aliastra Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2013.05.15 08:51:00 -
[111] - Quote
I think they should have 3 classes of clones -Organic Slurry Biomass Produced Clones -Animal Biomass Produced Clones -Human Biomass Produced Clones
It would be closer to the Eve Chronicle Lore Stories about Clones, and such a limited number of clone options would restrict prices on the upper ludicrous edge of clone costs. Player: EVE Online, Capsuleer, hunger games enthusiast. |
Rangloff
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
2
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Posted - 2013.05.15 08:51:00 -
[112] - Quote
In the words of the great and powerful voice of Vanu, "I find your efforts lacking."
30% decrease will do little to change my gameplay. My playtime is not where I would like it to be. When I do log on, I enjoy being able to jump in whatever fleet that is around an go. However, flying small ships in 0.0 usually means death for me, and large ships are a little difficult to pilot home when I catch the wife agro. I would have no qualms with jumping in the Stilleto and tackling for the greater good, but paying for a ship and my inevitable clone fee of 45 mil just does not work to well for the pocketbook. However, I did adapt like many in this forum will preach. I purchased a pvp alt and have been training him instead of my 140mil character in order to be able to have fun playing Eve.
The need to punish those players who have high SP amounts is unneeded. It restricts "content" by causing cautious gameplay. If I jump into one of these fine newly tiercided cruisers for some random drunken roaming, I would like to not have to worry about my clone costing double of my ship.
I hope you glorious Devs can resolve this issue for myself, but until then my fine little pvp alt will be wildly blazing in the deep ocean of 0.0. May his soul rest in peace over and over and over again for a mere 4mil isk. CAN I GET A HALLELUIAH! |
Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
163
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Posted - 2013.05.15 08:53:00 -
[113] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Something CCP is becoming more serious about (with Fozzie as one of the major champions) is making 'good' changes NOW even if there's some 'perfect' solution somewhere down the line that might take quite awhile to actually happen.
This brought a big happy smile on my face. Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Labs Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene. |
Pesadel0
the muppets DARKNESS.
72
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Posted - 2013.05.15 09:03:00 -
[114] - Quote
Good change i hope someday the clone scales with the ship your flying . |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
3661
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Posted - 2013.05.15 09:14:00 -
[115] - Quote
Honestly, what is the worst thing that could happen if you 100% remove the clone upgrade cost and put the location of our respawn when we are podded on a 24 hour cooldown timer so that can't be abused. Seriously, what is the worst that will happen??
The entire player base has fun?
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pmota
the muppets DARKNESS.
22
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Posted - 2013.05.15 09:16:00 -
[116] - Quote
Is this an improvement ? Yes.
Am I happy ? No. How many iterations to get to "maximum clone price = 10M" ? or something as reasonable as that.
CCP Rise wrote:I just saw (thanks Reddit) that the clone cost adjustment for Odyssey went to Singularity with the latest update. I didn't realize this would happen so quickly and I didn't have a post ready so I'm throwing this up in the middle of the night! Basically, for Odyssey we are lowering the cost of clone upgrades across the board by 30%. This is meant as the first increment on a more thorough iteration on the clone system. Our hope is that through this first step we will be able to establish what (if any) effect clone prices have on player behavior. If you have any feedback related to the clone system (especially in terms of how it affects your play-style) we would love to hear from you. I'm sure image links are usually not ideal for dev posts, but it is the middle of the night, so here is a screen shot of the new clone prices proposed for Odyssey: CLONESYours, CCP Rise
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Corin Nebulon
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.05.15 09:20:00 -
[117] - Quote
I like the change. However it's only a cosmetic change. Soon everybody will get enough SP to need a better clone and then we are basically looking at the same prices as before.
The idea of just buying a clone-contract once and then have unlimited clones with a certain SP-level or the idea of paying just once every month has imho the disadvantage that it doesn't encourage people to try to save their pods after combat.Pod-express might become the more desireable way of traveling.
These ideas might work if there is another kind of penality, like 24hour reduced skilltraining if you lose a pod. Especially if it's possible to remove the penality for a small fee at the neares medical facility.
The biggest problem of the current cloning system is that once your clone costs a certain amount of isk, (depending on your income ingame) the high fees really discourage pvp activities that involve any form of risk. Joining a T1 frigate roam through 0.0 is suddenly looking like much less fun if you know that a) its likely you will die and b) the clone will be 30mil isk. |
Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
2824
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 09:22:00 -
[118] - Quote
Rangloff wrote:CAN I GET A HALLELUIAH!
Yes, you can.
Let's analyze your case for a moment. Your problem is that you don't like the 45mil ISK loss resulting from the loss of your clone, and that puts you off from PVPing with that high-SP character. You have solved the problem by creating a lower SP alt.
Results:
+ you get to PVP + others get to PVP with your alt + CCP got another account
Everybody wins!
Now let's consider the consequences of removing clone costs:
+ you get to PVP + others get to PVP - CCP doesn't get an account
Poor CCP!
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
zola carry
UnSkilleD Inc. Reverberation Project
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 09:27:00 -
[119] - Quote
ok, 30% is a good start, null sec people will be very happy about that.
Me, i leave in low sec, i don't loose pod all the time, and it's really hard to kill pod. the only satisfaction when i kill pod are implants, and clone cost. i really think clone costs in lowsec are good, but i agree it's not good things in null. Decrease it, but not too much. |
Skia Aumer
Atlas Research Group
37
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 09:35:00 -
[120] - Quote
I you want to die and have no consequences - go play WOW. EVE is hard. I'm not happy with this change. CCP, dont get yourself tricked with those ****-fit rifter roams. They are fun because they dont happen too often.
And PL dudes cheering it? I knew they are all risk-averse and stuff, but this... it's epicness of epicity! Spending billions just to jump their numerous alts across the Galaxy in pimped supers and economizing some ridiculous 30-50 mil for their clones! OMG, is there even a diagnosis for that? |
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