..a shield boost bonus for the Vaga?
..on a 6/4/5 layout?
..really?

The Deimos.... why is it so slow? it's clearly only gonna be viable for close range brawling since it has the falloff bonus?

Heck I would have done this for all drone boats

Drone Support Bays. Able to fit Combat Utility Drones, Electronic Warfare drones and Logistic Drones. Cannot hold Combat Drones.

For example. The Ishtar would get the following.

Ishtar.

Stats:
Combat Drone Bay Bandwidth 125
Combat Drone Bay Size 125
Utility Drone Bay Bandwidth 75
Utility Drone Bay Size. 75

Max amount of Combat Drones that can be launched, 5
Max amount of Utility/EWAR/LOGI drones able to be launched, 5

Total number of drones that can be launched, 10 (5 combat drones, 5 Utility/ewar/logi drones). (the amount of Ewar/Utility/Logi drones launch-able can be balanced or reduced as needed dependent on the ship size).


Gallente Cruiser Skill Bonus:
10% bonus to drone tracking and optimal range(was 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage)
10% bonus to drone hitpoints and Damage

Heavy Assault Cruiser Bonuses:
5 km bonus to Drone operation range per level
50 m3 extra Drone Bays (Utility Drone Bay and Combat Drone Bay) per level

Everybody would get to use the extra ewar drones that Nobody uses (such as the Sensor Dampening Drones, Target Painting Drones, Webifier Drones, Tracking Disruptor Drones, Energy Neutralizing Drones).

Heck I would do this to Every Ship, balance out those that have drone bays, move all those ewar drones nobody uses to a specific bay that specific ships can have an actual use for, and be able to use them all. You would at least make the Ishtar a definite differentiating type of droneboat.

Can even apply that to the Myrmidon, Vexors, Dominix, Proteus, Prophecy, Armageddon, Arbirator, etc. Can balance out the extra utility dronebay and allow more drone based moves and combat.

There ya go, Ishtar fixed and made all those useless drones useful now.

go read the long range medium thread... there raise clearly states that the deimos is a rail ship.

go read the long range medium thread... there raise clearly states that the deimos is a rail ship.

CCP Rise...can you give us a view of what niche the HAC is supposed to fill in the Eve patheon of ships?

Ishtar has mostly structure hp and got more? for what fitting reinforced bulkheads?.

Think about it: if HACs no longer fulfill their originally intended roles, and if they're outclassed by some of the Navy hulls and ABCs today, and post-rebalance they still come up short in so many ways.... maybe it's time to retire the HAC as a thing.

Perhaps we're seeing ITT the first arguments for simply removing an entire class of ships from the game. No more HACs would certainly give the upcoming Command Ships and T3 rebalancing a lot more room to maneuver. Maybe re-role some of the favorite hulls (e.g. Vagabond, Ishtar) into another class while preserving most of their current capabilitites.

Think about it: if HACs no longer fulfill their originally intended roles, and if they're outclassed by some of the Navy hulls and ABCs today, and post-rebalance they still come up short in so many ways.... maybe it's time to retire the HAC as a thing.

Think about it: if HACs no longer fulfill their originally intended roles, .

Do it to the navy cara while you are at it. In fact, why don't you just give all ships that have a missile bonus a bonus to medium missile launchers in general?

You don't see a battlecruiser with a bonus to autocannons and excluding arty... >_>

I'm currently chatting with CSM and some other game design folk about working on the Ishtar a bit. Probably no update on what we come to as a conclusion until tomorrowish.

yeah lets remove frigates from the game


edit - Also lol, Ishtar CPU stays the same.

Oh let's fit up the Ishtar with 4 Reinforced bulkheads and a meta 4 DC and basically nothing else but drones

2nd edit - You guys should go back to the beginning on this rebalance. Well, unless you want new fleets of Cerbs to dominate fleet warfare the way the old Drakes did (but at least now people will pay in isk and sp to get that kind of dominance/utility).

imo the MWD sig bonus is way overrated on the new HACs to the point that it barely matters at all, for a few reasons:

- They can speedtank less than half the stuff an AF can; an AF can speedtank medium and large guns, the new HACs might barely be able to speedtank large guns
- They're still far too slow to be used as heavy tackle, with the exception of the vaga
- While an AF can run an MWD indefinitely, except for the Sac and deimos the HACs all have horrible capacitors and can only run MWDs in bursts

I was kinda hoping the HACs would be divided along the same lines as the T1 cruisers they directly compete with; one hull with lots of tank and DPS and not much mobility, and one with loads of maneuverability.

Anyway no one's gonna use HACs until they're significantly better than T1 cruisers, which they're not, nor do they adequately fill any niche not currently occupied by a much cheaper ship

PS can a GM please refund my SP from training HAC V, thanks in advance

SACRILEGE
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 200(+2) / .567 / 11750000(-540000) / 9.24s(-.4)

ZEALOT
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 210(+1) / .553 / 12580000 / 9.64s

CERBERUS
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 205(+30) / .463 / 12720000 / 8.17s

EAGLE
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 175(+11) / .576 / 11720000 / 9.36s

DEIMOS
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 220(+12) / .475(-.055) / 11460000 / 7.54s(-.875)

ISHTAR
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 185(-6) / .52 / 11700000 / 8.43s

VAGABOND
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 290(+51) / .504 / 11590000 / 8.1s

MUNINN
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 210(+14) / .571 / 11750000 / 9.3s

and the comment that vaga can brawl seems ridiculous to me even with the ASB bonus which must be hard too fit i would imagine. the vaga is built on speed and kiting .. just remove the shield booster bonus and just buff its damage bonus to 10% so 3 more useful bonuses instead of 4 weaker and odd bonus combos

Well i guess not giving the drake a rlml bonus is fine.

But all cruisers should have it <.<

2) If the Vagabond is going to be a shield tanker shouldn't it have more than 4 mids? Moving a low to a mid would make a lot more sense.

did you miss that many people already fly ASB vagas?