RISE

The Vagabond's speed is out of place here the max speed the other HAC's have is 230 so why does the Vaga get 295?
It also conflicts with the current trend of faction/attack cruisers being the quickest ... so trade speed for more tank since the HAC's are about resilience not speed right? .. unless you are happy to contradict this.

- reduce speed to 260 m/s
- add extra HP across the board to encourage ASB tanking

This besides making sense in terms of HAC's not being fast but tanky/resilient but also follows the trend of faction/Attack cruisers being the quickest .. this also creates a more distinct difference between it and the stabber/cynabal.

just compare Nomen/Omen to zealot and you'll understand my point perfectly

Look, more people proposing more stupid changes to the Vagabond when all it needs is a second falloff bonus.

Look, more people proposing more stupid changes to the Vagabond when all it needs is a second falloff bonus.

Yes cos a second falloff bonus on a Vaga wouldn't be stupidly OP at all

When it can barely hit past web range hack and slash doesn't really work anymore.

If I'm going to pay 200mil for a ship with 37k eHP I want some bang for my buck.

Yes cos a second falloff bonus on a Vaga wouldn't be stupidly OP at all

See this is the thing, you ask anybody who has actually flown a shield Loki or a Vaga or any kiting AC ship and they will tell you AC kiting is bad, and has been for some time, a double falloff bonus is absolutely needed to make the hull usefull.

See this is the thing, you ask anybody who has actually flown a shield Loki or a Vaga or any kiting AC ship and they will tell you AC kiting is bad, and has been for some time, a double falloff bonus is absolutely needed to make the hull usefull.

AC kiting is now 'bad' because of adjustment due to winmatar and no one flying anything but (and it ain't actually bad dude, no cap, damage selection, good tracking etc). Remember?

Welcome to balance. The fastest most disengagable ships suffer from falloff limited projection - this is a better world for EVE. If you want to kite with ACs you get locked into a T2 ammo damage type and live with lower DPS the farther you go. You get to keep your tracking, damage selection with short range ammo, capless guns, and very healthy damage. If projection is the ultimate consideration for YOU go fly something like a NOmen and deal with Cap dependency and razor thin shield tank. There has to be tradeoffs and, with the huge buffs the Vaga is getting on top of its already massive strengths, awesome damage projection would make it way too much.

OK so what do you with 200mil of crap dps that can't tank and can't damage from range but goes very fast?

Oh wait I'll tell you fly a Fleet stabber that has more tank, similar damage and dual prop that's what. At least it can do something other than point.

Hey guys just a heads up for you - all of these ships, along with the command ships and pretty much everything else, are on singularity now for testing.

Please go have a look and let us know what you think in the test server feedback forum or in these threads on features and ideas.

Thanks!

Leverage its awesome tank with an ASB and amazing minnie T2 shield resists? Or use that top-of-class speed and apply your limited damage to plink away at a target with no fear of getting caught with your capless weapons, great cap so you can MWD all day long, resistance to dishonour drones and damps, and reduced sig rad due to the role bonus? Or sacrifice some of your invulnerability to small stuff by dropping the med neut and fitting 425s and achieving that better damage/projection?

IE. pretty much anything you want - minnie flexibility is rampant in this hull.



SFI is a good ship. The number of viable hulls right now is amazing and a testament to the work the balance team have be doing. I haven't agreed with every change but you can't argue with the success of their results so far.

No I think you will find that everybody will just fly other ships that do much better damage at much better range while having more EHP.

Basically, every ABC.

Congratulations CCP, you have made another rifter, a useless ship compared to the Cynabal (another problem in the line of OP angel ship) and the ABCs which still need a tweak.

At least you fixed the Vaga so that once you bring this other stuff in line people will fly it, fantastic work really.

Fixed your post up to reflect a bit more reality (at least the in game type of reality ).

Also edited, above, my post that you quoted because I forgot about the amazing Vaga assets of default med neuts and nice drones bay/bandwidth for a second there. Man that hull has a lot going for it.

Literally give me one reason I should fly the Vaga over a Deimos a Cerb or a Talos or a Navy Omen.

Literally give me one reason I should fly the Vaga over a Deimos a Cerb or a Talos or a Navy Omen

And why would you fly a Diefaster Talos or NOmen over a cynabal or vigilant?

For the same reasons, different ships, different abilities, different classes all with a purpose. You just don't like the new Vaga everyone has understood that already but if so many tell you your reasoning is bad then why not just go on SISI test it isntead of same arguments again and again?
Maybe it's not the ship for you anymore after TE nerf but don't ask to give it an integrated double TE, it's too obvious why it would not be balanced even if you don't admit or don't like it, the current version is OK

The problem with the proposed Vaga is it is still too similar to the stabber and cynabal ... it has got the bonus to ASB but it still lacks EHP and its dps is still unconvincing even if you fit 425's which is difficult with its tight fittings its also one rig short compared to the other 2.

The problem with the proposed Vaga is it is still too similar to the stabber and cynabal ... it has got the bonus to ASB but it still lacks EHP and its dps is still unconvincing even if you fit 425's which is difficult with its tight fittings its also one rig short compared to the other 2.

At least my proposal rectifies these issues (besides rigs) at the cost of some speed .. so there is still a reason to use the other 2. but also gives the Vaga a role that's a little more unique and better than it is

CCP, you guys need to look at why the Deimos is called the "Diemost" by players. Think on it. Meditate on it. Mull it over. Then ask yourselves exactly why you lowered its survivability even more. Then explain to us here why you did it. Maybe you're seeing something that we don't, but if your version hit's live, it's gonna go from being the "Diemost" to the "Never fly. Under any circumstances. Ever."

With all that negative stuff over with, gotta say that I'm very intrigued by the Ishtar.

But looking at the Vaga it has more speed than the stabber and more effective range its almost like its navy version but with T2 bonuses/role.
Then you look at the other HAC's compared to there T1 versions and they are very different ships with different roles.
The lack of consistency regarding minmatar ships compared to the other races ships is strange.

Vagabond
Stabber
Cynabal

All three are very similar but the Vaga is the odd one out since its meant to be a T2 specialist ship its speed and role but its still almost same as the other 2 ..
There needs to be more uniqueness to each ship over the other 2.

Vagabond - slower but more resilient/ heavier dps
Stabber - fast but low dps, more utility/flexibility
Cynabal - fast and agile good dps a upgrade on the stabber like its fleet version should be

Omen - good speed/ decent dps/projection
Navy Omen - better than omen in every way, especially with 7 low slots gives lots of options
Zealot - slow/decent dps/good projection and strong tank
Phantasm - Tracking bonus combined with shield tank is nice/ lots of potential .. needs a lot of work though

Caracal - fastest of the lot/ good projection/ decent dps
Navy Caracal - slow/ decent tank ,good damage application more of a brawler
Cerberus - good speed/ good dps/ excellent projection / decent tank

Breacher - Talwar - Bellicose - Cyclone - Claymore - Typhoon

Please turn the distinctly meh Munnin into a launcher based platform.

Please.