Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 40 50 60 70 .. 70 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 46 post(s) |
Eldrith Jhandar
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
15
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 19:30:00 -
[1591] - Quote
Current vulture (so slightly less dps than the proposed vulture) T2 extender rigs (cheap now) 5% shield implant Dcu Caldari navy power diags x3 3 extenders b-type em hardener 2 t2 invulns Overheat an invuln and em hard and u get 379kehp (overheating for over 3 minutes) With the slight hp increase it will get u can get even closer to 400k With a prop mod it is decreased to 325-330 Faction invulns and prop mod 373-380k ehp And yes the big alliances can afford these modules
Not saying it doesn't need a slight buff but you need to actually fit some decent fits, eccm on a vulture with no guns? Wut... Probe launcher? Cyno? Good fc's won't have their booster using either
When will we see an update based on player feedback for all of these ships? Vulture should have the second optimal bonus changed to 5% optimal and damage Nighthawk needs work Eos needs work Abso and damnation both need work Claymore I hear needs a little bit of love but idk it seems quite good on sisi Havnt heard much or plastered with the sleip Astarte seems pretty good Cargo holds needa be a bit higher, dronebay on the eos Lol |
Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
158
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 19:50:00 -
[1592] - Quote
S1dy wrote: So, the Vulture gets overheated 133.959 EHP, with her own links 164.389 EHP.
Tell me: What's your point here?!
You Sir, are terrible at fitting ships for tanking. That's all I can see here. http://i.imgur.com/bsevzW4.jpg?1 this got links, and can possibly fit rails aswell. Just throwin' on some smartbombs cause whatever. Has a siege warfare mindlink. OH goes up to 260k - that's not all that bad compared to damnation and reps land 4 ticks earlier (3.6secs or so). I only correct my own spelling. |
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
39
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 20:15:00 -
[1593] - Quote
Lloyd Roses wrote:S1dy wrote: So, the Vulture gets overheated 133.959 EHP, with her own links 164.389 EHP.
Tell me: What's your point here?!
You Sir, are terrible at fitting ships for tanking. That's all I can see here. http://i.imgur.com/bsevzW4.jpg?1 this got links, and can possibly fit rails aswell. Just throwin' on some smartbombs cause whatever. Has a siege warfare mindlink. OH goes up to 260k - that's not all that bad compared to damnation and reps land 4 ticks earlier (3.6secs or so).
Your fit gets jammed faster you can say "dideldum", but Target calling isnt important for Command Ships i guess? |
Icarus fall
research U
0
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 20:35:00 -
[1594] - Quote
Lephia DeGrande wrote:Lloyd Roses wrote:S1dy wrote: So, the Vulture gets overheated 133.959 EHP, with her own links 164.389 EHP.
Tell me: What's your point here?!
You Sir, are terrible at fitting ships for tanking. That's all I can see here. http://i.imgur.com/bsevzW4.jpg?1 this got links, and can possibly fit rails aswell. Just throwin' on some smartbombs cause whatever. Has a siege warfare mindlink. OH goes up to 260k - that's not all that bad compared to damnation and reps land 4 ticks earlier (3.6secs or so). Your fit gets jammed faster you can say "dideldum", but Target calling isnt important for Command Ships i guess?
Nope command ships are to provide links. Let the FC call targets. |
Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
158
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 20:35:00 -
[1595] - Quote
Lephia DeGrande wrote:Lloyd Roses wrote:S1dy wrote: So, the Vulture gets overheated 133.959 EHP, with her own links 164.389 EHP.
Tell me: What's your point here?!
You Sir, are terrible at fitting ships for tanking. That's all I can see here. http://i.imgur.com/bsevzW4.jpg?1 this got links, and can possibly fit rails aswell. Just throwin' on some smartbombs cause whatever. Has a siege warfare mindlink. OH goes up to 260k - that's not all that bad compared to damnation and reps land 4 ticks earlier (3.6secs or so). Your fit gets jammed faster you can say "dideldum", but Target calling isnt important for Command Ships i guess?
If you're that desperate for ECCM, I'd rather suggest finding some utility mids for remote eccm instead of gimping tank. On the same page, what about dampening? Fly into a celestisfleet and get damped to a scanres of a sieged dread. Have fun target calling with that. Tl;Dr: Don't bother with local stuff on a shieldtanked CS.
I was unaware that the fleetbooster has to be the target caller. I only noticed a command position of some sort being required to tag/broadcast. I only correct my own spelling. |
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
39
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 20:39:00 -
[1596] - Quote
Thats the nice Thing in Eve you can be Booster and Fleet Commander for Target Calling at once, i know thats kinda scary, when they usualy sit behind a forcefield. |
Icarus fall
research U
0
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 20:43:00 -
[1597] - Quote
Lephia DeGrande wrote:Thats the nice Thing in Eve you can be Booster and Fleet Commander for Target Calling at once, i know thats kinda scary, when they usualy sit behind a forcefield.
Thats the nice Thing in Eve booster can just be booster and target caller can be someother toon in fleet. Eve has the flexibility to suit each needs. |
Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
158
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 20:44:00 -
[1598] - Quote
Icarus fall wrote:Lephia DeGrande wrote:Thats the nice Thing in Eve you can be Booster and Fleet Commander for Target Calling at once, i know thats kinda scary, when they usualy sit behind a forcefield. Thats the nice Thing in Eve booster can just be booster and target caller can be someother toon in fleet. Eve has the flexibility to suit each needs.
From a certain scale on, the need for tank becomes more pressing though. I only correct my own spelling. |
Icarus fall
research U
0
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 20:48:00 -
[1599] - Quote
Lloyd Roses wrote:Icarus fall wrote:Lephia DeGrande wrote:Thats the nice Thing in Eve you can be Booster and Fleet Commander for Target Calling at once, i know thats kinda scary, when they usualy sit behind a forcefield. Thats the nice Thing in Eve booster can just be booster and target caller can be someother toon in fleet. Eve has the flexibility to suit each needs. From a certain scale on, the need for tank becomes more pressing though.
Could be but any largest fleet I've been in has had multiple people ready to lead fleet when the first one died. |
Eldrith Jhandar
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
15
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 20:49:00 -
[1600] - Quote
Your inexperience in organized fleets is showing If you want target call from booster fine go for it, rarely will people jam you, or if the enemy knows u are target caller bring remote eccm and remote sensor boosters Those modules are not uncommon in well organized fleets.......... Hell you can target call without locking Just have one or two people who will let you know how their tank is holding so u don't even have to lock anything Just sit there and watch lazer beams fly everywhere |
|
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
39
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 21:29:00 -
[1601] - Quote
You can organize Fleets in many ways, i cant See the problem with some Personal ECCM, because jamming the Target Caller is a common Thing and can be a real pain in the Ass.
Anyway its regardless if you use ECCM or any other Med Slot Module because you still have more disadventage with a Vulture then a Damnnation on the Grid. Less EHP with higher costs in fitting and isk, thats just pure inbalance and also dont solve the Problem that Damnnation and a half baked Caldari CS can handle Fleet fights. |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
158
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 21:46:00 -
[1602] - Quote
so now that we have seen that the nighthawk and vulture can be built to withstand 350k of alpha, are we all a little happier?
;-)
/MC |
Eldrith Jhandar
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
15
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 21:48:00 -
[1603] - Quote
Lephia DeGrande wrote:You can organize Fleets in many ways, i cant See the problem with some Personal ECCM, because jamming the Target Caller is a common Thing and can be a real pain in the Ass.
Anyway its regardless if you use ECCM or any other Med Slot Module because you still have more disadventage with a Vulture then a Damnnation on the Grid. Less EHP with higher costs in fitting and isk, thats just pure inbalance and also dont solve the Problem that Damnnation and a half baked Caldari CS can handle Fleet fights.
The fittings are quite common in large fleets, or mid sized fleets/alliances... And if you are in a large fleet and you don't have semi competent people who can sy hey target isn't breaking lets switch, then idk what fleets ur in Does it make it more difficult absolutely But remote eccm-ing the fc is much better and doesn't sacrifice your tank...
There is a big difference between the damnation and vulture but not nearly as big and nasty as you say The vulture can get over 300k ehp very easily
And tho I don't agree with it the damnation is gonna get nerfed badly
And I do not agree with making the claymore and eos have an hp bonus Without the resist bonus it won't work, and u get an awkward ship with a rep and hp bonus which is weird Or just an hp bonus which is not that strong by itself |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
158
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 22:33:00 -
[1604] - Quote
to be fair the eos and astarte can be fitted with a 160k ehp buffer and a good active tank without spending much money. they're not exactly weak.
as mentioned, it's all a matter of tradeoffs.
as they stand, for the purpose they serve, they seem ok. tbh
|
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
281
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 01:08:00 -
[1605] - Quote
Trying to make sense of 80 pages of ranting: so, what are Absolution and Damnation's new starts again?
The Most Interesting Player In Eve. |
Anattha
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 02:15:00 -
[1606] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:Trying to make sense of 80 pages of ranting: so, what are Absolution and Damnation's new starts again? Abso still useless for pvp. Damnation still a fat brick. Will this stats are correct for you? |
Eldrith Jhandar
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
15
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 04:25:00 -
[1607] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:to be fair the eos and astarte can be fitted with a 160k ehp buffer and a good active tank without spending much money. they're not exactly weak.
as mentioned, it's all a matter of tradeoffs.
as they stand, for the purpose they serve, they seem ok. tbh
As of now there's no reason to use te eos over an Astarte unless u can't use t2 blasters but u can use t2 ogres Anything the eos can do the Astarte can do better without te fear of getting your (very) limited supply of drones killed And I've mentioned how the eos has -1 slot, which is standard blah blah but the other drone boats are comparable to their turret based counterparts, unlike the eos The eos IS lacking Not by an outrageous amount but it is lacking |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
160
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 07:13:00 -
[1608] - Quote
Eldrith Jhandar wrote:Mournful Conciousness wrote:to be fair the eos and astarte can be fitted with a 160k ehp buffer and a good active tank without spending much money. they're not exactly weak.
as mentioned, it's all a matter of tradeoffs.
as they stand, for the purpose they serve, they seem ok. tbh
As of now there's no reason to use te eos over an Astarte unless u can't use t2 blasters but u can use t2 ogres Anything the eos can do the Astarte can do better without te fear of getting your (very) limited supply of drones killed And I've mentioned how the eos has -1 slot, which is standard blah blah but the other drone boats are comparable to their turret based counterparts, unlike the eos The eos IS lacking Not by an outrageous amount but it is lacking
yes i think that's a fair point. it could use more drone space, and i agree that the mere presence of drones does not really justify the loss of a slot. I'd still be happy to take it on an armour roam though. For me its role would absolutely be boosting though. 4 links. Probably 3 armour and 1 skirmish
|
Noemi Nagano
State War Academy Caldari State
119
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 07:58:00 -
[1609] - Quote
Please BUFF the NH and dont nerf it even more ... DPS went down even more, and they were abysmal before. |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
160
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 08:02:00 -
[1610] - Quote
Noemi Nagano wrote:Please BUFF the NH and dont nerf it even more ... DPS went down even more, and they were abysmal before.
They're not for brawling. They're for tanking huge alpha while boosting.
See above
|
|
Open Graves
Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan
2
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 10:43:00 -
[1611] - Quote
I want to add my support for hulls matching weapon systems. If Eos is going to be drone focused please make it a T2 Myrm not a Brutix and likewise for the other races. |
Edward Olmops
Sirius Fleet
88
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 11:35:00 -
[1612] - Quote
I cannot find the posting now, but Fozzie mentioned something about removing the +10% HP from Damnation. THere is an issue with FCs in large fleets being primaried who need survivability vs insane buffer tanks in small scale.
Idea: would it be a solution to allow Target Spectrum Breakers on Command Ships?
That would not affect smaller engagements so much, but add another defensive option for these key ships in large fleets. Then maybe a loss of that HP ship bonus could be compensated.
|
Serenity Eon
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 12:00:00 -
[1613] - Quote
Fozzie, can you give us an update? Please |
Alsyth
83
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 12:09:00 -
[1614] - Quote
Edward Olmops wrote:I cannot find the posting now, but Fozzie mentioned something about removing the +10% HP from Damnation. THere is an issue with FCs in large fleets being primaried who need survivability vs insane buffer tanks in small scale.
Idea: would it be a solution to allow Target Spectrum Breakers on Command Ships?
That would not affect smaller engagements so much, but add another defensive option for these key ships in large fleets. Then maybe a loss of that HP ship bonus could be compensated.
Buff to armor only once again, and shield CS are in a far worse situation. |
Jerick Ludhowe
trolllolcorp
535
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 12:28:00 -
[1615] - Quote
Eldrith Jhandar wrote:Mournful Conciousness wrote:to be fair the eos and astarte can be fitted with a 160k ehp buffer and a good active tank without spending much money. they're not exactly weak.
as mentioned, it's all a matter of tradeoffs.
as they stand, for the purpose they serve, they seem ok. tbh
As of now there's no reason to use te eos over an Astarte unless u can't use t2 blasters but u can use t2 ogres Anything the eos can do the Astarte can do better without te fear of getting your (very) limited supply of drones killed And I've mentioned how the eos has -1 slot, which is standard blah blah but the other drone boats are comparable to their turret based counterparts, unlike the eos The eos IS lacking Not by an outrageous amount but it is lacking
I generally agree with you on the eos vs astarte.
Something that no one has really mentioned is that the EOS also has worse cap regen than the Astarte however both of them have about 1/2 the cap regen of the deimos (wtf?). |
Capt Canada
Risk Breakers Fidelas Constans
0
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 13:38:00 -
[1616] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:With the greatest respect, until you give the devs numbers you are not in a position to tell them how to improve the design.
They're just not going to listen to "it's ****" claims.
Give a concrete example.
Here is a concrete example:
The numbers are with a siege warfare implant, bad drone skills, and no other implants for drugs - but include the siege boosts.
Nighthawk: high slots: 3 siege boosters, 4 heavy missiles, navy scourge med slots: EM ward II, infvuln II, LSB II x 2, 10mn MWD (meta-3) low slots: DC II, ballistic control II x 2, nanofiber II, PDU II rigs: T1 field extenders (I dont have the skills for T2)
Stats: EHP: 122,395 (unheated) Resists: 81/93/89/81 (unheated) shield recharge: 55hp/s = approx 250dps peak (unheated)
damage output (for me): 300dps to 54km. This will increase with better skills to about 400 i think (unheated).
122k ehp does not suggest to me that this ship will die immediately - it's the same as a battleship.
I'd be happy to take this in a moderately-sized shield fleet. No, it's not going to survive massive alpha from 2000 ships. I guess it's designed for durability in a smaller fleet with some logi. If that is the design goal, then it has met its targets. If the design goal is "massive fleet alpha" then it has probably not.
So, some questions:
Q1: what are your design goals? What size alpha do you need to counter? Q2: Does the ship meet the criteria while providing link boosts?
Incidentally, Sisi seems to have a bug that prevents the nighthawk from activating more than one siege module at a time. Since I'm the first to mention it, I presume I'm the first to actually fit up a ship before complaining?
Yeah, sorry I stand corrected.. Seems I have a lot more training to be able to fly command ships at any level of competency. With the fit you linked and my skills (defence skills all at 5, heavy missile spec 4 warhead upgrades 4, command ships 4) specs are, 254 dps @ 58k, 79k EHP 101k with link boosts, 49% cap stable without MWD, peak shield recharge of 37hp p/s. Probably usable in a larger fleet situation, don't think I'd risk it in the size fleets I usually fly in though (20 to 30).
NB; I've had no issues with sisi running 3 links on the nighthawk. Try removing & refitting them, it worked for me. I have actually fitted all command ships on sisi, the nighthawk has by far, the worst spec's
|
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
161
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 13:49:00 -
[1617] - Quote
it's easy to get quickly concerned by the base numbers ccp have put out, and it's natural for all of us to want the ships we like flying to be not left behind. But when these ships are fitted up on the test server, they get pretty powerful. I would urge everyone to try it before posting comments here.
with deadspace gear on both, good skills and links, both the damnation and vulture/NH have similar ehp (about 400,000).
for their use as alpha-resisting fleet boosters there is no practical difference.
If we use them in other roles, for which they are not designed, we can'y really complain if they don't meet our expectations.
Similarly with the gallente/minny hulls - you can;t get them to anywhere near the fleet command EHP, because they are for skirmishing, for which they are surprisingly good, each in their own way.
None of these hulls will ever have spectacular damage projection, because it's not their role.
astarte gets close, but it's such a slow hulk of a ship with tiny range that alone it's never going to get near a target :-)
|
Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
159
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 14:01:00 -
[1618] - Quote
Noemi Nagano wrote:Please BUFF the NH and dont nerf it even more ... DPS went down even more, and they were abysmal before.
Just regarding the offense, you're wrong. Damageoutput went up a lot. As exapmle, 4 launcers (and 3 links), 2 BCUs and rage for 520dps, or more extreme, 3 BCUs + t2 damagerig and hobgoblins II for 1000 flat dps at all V using rage. Nerfed so hard.... Also not a dreamfit, it's a superdrake with scrambler and some 110k EHP.
regards I only correct my own spelling. |
Capt Canada
Risk Breakers Fidelas Constans
0
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 14:17:00 -
[1619] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote: it's easy to get quickly concerned by the base numbers ccp have put out, and it's natural for all of us to want the ships we like flying to be not left behind. But when these ships are fitted up on the test server, they get pretty powerful. I would urge everyone to try it before posting comments here.
with deadspace gear on both, good skills and links, both the damnation and vulture/NH have similar ehp (about 400,000).
for their use as alpha-resisting fleet boosters there is no practical difference.
If we use them in other roles, for which they are not designed, we can'y really complain if they don't meet our expectations.
Similarly with the gallente/minny hulls - you can;t get them to anywhere near the fleet command EHP, because they are for skirmishing, for which they are surprisingly good, each in their own way.
None of these hulls will ever have spectacular damage projection, because it's not their role.
astarte gets close, but it's such a slow hulk of a ship with tiny range that alone it's never going to get near a target :-)
So the suggestion to give command ships a better chance of survival is to turn a 300mil ship into a 1.3 bill isk ship by fitting faction/deadspace mods? Now that isn't going to make them more of a juicy target is it? Looking at it from a small fleet/gang (15 to 20) point of view, faction dead space fit command ships = shi**y killboard for the owner. Yes having a command ship requires trade off's in fitting but should those trade off be, run a command ship or not?
|
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
46
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 14:37:00 -
[1620] - Quote
Capt Canada wrote:Mournful Conciousness wrote: it's easy to get quickly concerned by the base numbers ccp have put out, and it's natural for all of us to want the ships we like flying to be not left behind. But when these ships are fitted up on the test server, they get pretty powerful. I would urge everyone to try it before posting comments here.
with deadspace gear on both, good skills and links, both the damnation and vulture/NH have similar ehp (about 400,000).
for their use as alpha-resisting fleet boosters there is no practical difference.
If we use them in other roles, for which they are not designed, we can'y really complain if they don't meet our expectations.
Similarly with the gallente/minny hulls - you can;t get them to anywhere near the fleet command EHP, because they are for skirmishing, for which they are surprisingly good, each in their own way.
None of these hulls will ever have spectacular damage projection, because it's not their role.
astarte gets close, but it's such a slow hulk of a ship with tiny range that alone it's never going to get near a target :-)
So the suggestion to give command ships a better chance of survival is to turn a 300mil ship into a 1.3 bill isk ship by fitting faction/deadspace mods? Now that isn't going to make them more of a juicy target is it? Looking at it from a small fleet/gang (15 to 20) point of view, faction dead space fit command ships = shi**y killboard for the owner. Yes having a command ship requires trade off's in fitting but should those trade off be, run a command ship or not?
He is probably to Space Rich, to recognize this. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 40 50 60 70 .. 70 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |