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[Odyssey 1.1] Command Ships

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 46 post(s)
Thogn Republic Logistics 0	Posted - 2013.08.01 18:35:00 - [271] - Quote Good Evening, is there any timeframe - where we will see this changes take place ? thx for a reply
Maximus Andendare Future Corps Sleeper Social Club 389	Posted - 2013.08.01 18:35:00 - [272] - Quote Thogn wrote: Good Evening, is there any timeframe - where we will see this changes take place ? thx for a reply Odyssey 1.1 release. Step onto the battlefield, and you're already dead, born again at the end of the battle to live on and fight another day.
XXSketchxx Di-Tron Heavy Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore 344	Posted - 2013.08.01 18:41:00 - [273] - Quote Quote: Can't say I like that, from a roleplay / gameplay point of view. No one cares.
Witchking Angmar Perkele. 42	Posted - 2013.08.01 18:44:00 - [274] - Quote Goldensaver wrote: No, 10.9375 to 10. Math man, learn it. 5*1.5/.75 = 10. Bonuses stack on each other, RoF is done by division due to the interaction, yadda yadda. Yeah, edited my post.. Thought it was damage bonus, not ROF at first.
Sol Trader Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 1	Posted - 2013.08.01 18:48:00 - [275] - Quote God damn, whatever you do don'/t replace the models. It will be shooting yourself in the foot when you actually want a new t2 bc. Furthermore, who at ccp has a hard on for the drake hull. First the navy drake, now nighthawk drake? Gross. And replacing the iconic sleipnir? come the **** on.
Magnus Coleus Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 2	Posted - 2013.08.01 18:50:00 - [276] - Quote XXSketchxx wrote: No one cares. You clearly cared enough to post a reply. Not enough to read the actual post all the way through, though.
Marcel Devereux Aideron Robotics 271	Posted - 2013.08.01 18:51:00 - [277] - Quote CCP Ytterbium wrote: Why so serious? Do you wanna know how I got these scars? Yep, Fozzie, Rise and I never talk to each other regarding ship balancing changes, despite the fact we sit 5 meters apart. And besides, nobody cares about Marauders right? But you are right on one point, derailing the thread is bad, my apologies, I'll stop that now. Bad Ytterbium, bad. 5 meters!?! No wonder the ship balancing is all over the place. The optimal range for a Frenchman is 1.13 m with a falloff of 3.13 m. You are balancing well into falloff. This explains a lot. Rise must be sitting the farthest away.
Hatsumi Kobayashi V0LTA Verge of Collapse 257	Posted - 2013.08.01 18:51:00 - [278] - Quote Grarr Dexx wrote: Witchking Angmar wrote: CCP Fozzie wrote: Entity wrote: So, Astarte getting a massive damage nerf? The damage/rof changes do not offset the 29% reduced damage from losing 2 turrets, and adding 2 completely unbonused launchers isn't that particularly appealing. It's going from 10.9 effective turrets to 10. However I expect the two utility highs, lower mass and extra resists to more than compensate. 10.9375 to 9.375, please stop rounding numbers so biasedly. :fozzie: :grarr: STANDING ON THE VERGE OF PROLAPSE
glepp Agony Unleashed Agony Empire 100	Posted - 2013.08.01 18:52:00 - [279] - Quote Ranger 1 wrote: glepp wrote: Ranger 1 wrote: That's actually a pretty decent buff to base resists, and it's effectiveness is dependent on what the enemy is shooting. Lasers do EM/Thermal by the way, and Caldari frequently are using Kinetic missiles due to their bonus restrictions. Projectile ammo frequently will be affected as well. Yes, it's not as high resists across the board and more vulnerable to high alpha in a fleet situation, but hardly an easy target if set up properly. Past that point the 15% boost all active tanking just got isn't anything to sneeze at, especially in an encounter like the 20 man BS fight you gave as an example. It's a decent buff if the opponent is shooting Multifreq, Phased Plasma or Scourge, yes. What is the damage distribution on scorch, the most commonly used crystal in a kiting Pulse Oracle? (Answer:36EM/8therm) Any Missile ship shooting kin at a Gallente hull desrves to lose, and it's not very common now. With the changes to Phoons and Ravens, do you really think this large-sigged ship will survive long in a BS fight without ignoring its hull bonus? In a 20 v 20 BS fight, 2k local reps is worth nothing, since you need to gimp you buffer to fit it. Think paint+webs+large sig+lowish buffer. Yes, I'd take any of the CS we are discussing into that. Without the slightest hesitation. With local reps on your Astarte?
XXSketchxx Di-Tron Heavy Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore 344	Posted - 2013.08.01 18:58:00 - [280] - Quote So the nighthawk is still shit. The cerb is still shit. What do you guys have against caldari missile boats?
Balzac Legazou Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2013.08.01 18:59:00 - [281] - Quote Magnus Coleus wrote: How about this: Field command ships: Optimized for small gangs (armor rep / shield booster / base shield regen bonuses) Can use 2 links Slight DPS boost (compared to current proposal) Slight sensor / range nerf Fleet command ships: Optimized for larger fleets (resist bonuses) Can use 3 links Reasonable DPS nerf (compared to current proposal) Reasonable sensor / range buff [...] giving each race a resist-based command ship and a repair-based command ship would silence the main complaint people seem to have. Gû¦ This. Grarr Dexx wrote: [...] Why can't it be: Gall Cal Min Amarr: ACTIVE PASSIVE Big gangs can't have shield/armor + skirmish? Gû¦ Or this, which is kind of the same thing. There are two types of command ships, so just give each race a "local tank" version (field command) and a "fleet tank (resist-based)" version (fleet command).
I'm Down Macabre Votum Northern Coalition. 198	Posted - 2013.08.01 19:04:00 - [282] - Quote Let's futher talk about the Resistance gaps in Command ships. The resistance bonus system to command ships really doesn't make much sense How is it possible that a 20% boost to resistances only provides an average 2.5% reduction in recieved dps from a ship such as the nighthawk compared to a ship such as the Claymore. Let me explain this more clearly before people bad at math chime in A ship with a 50% natural resistance taking 100 damage will receive 50 damage A ship with 50% natural resistance taking 100 damage with a 20% resistance bonus will have 55% resistance, and therefore take 45 damage. That means you really only take a 10% reduction in damage. This goes bad development where devs think % resistance works in some magical fashion rather than realistically. Hence the nerf to 4% per level recently as a compromise to active boosters. Proof the Devs don't know **** about mechanics The only time a resist bonus actually matters the way the Devs run numbers is when you start at 0% resist across the board. This hardly ever happens as a matter of base statistics on all ships. Furthering the problem is Tech 2 resistances. A Tech 2 ship with a 20% resist bonus does not actually receive 20% less damage than a comparable tech 1 ship. Instead, it receives 20% less damage than a comparable ship with the same base resistances. 2 totally different mechanics at play. How is this bad for Tech 2 balance. Well lets further examine the claymore / nighthawk conundrum I posted about earlier. Claymore without any bonuses has 220 total resist for an average of 55 Nighthawk with bonuses has a 240 total resist for an average of 60% damage reduction Lets use really lazy math since it provides easy to work with numbers 100 damage applied on the claymore nets 45 damage 100 damage applied on the nighthawk nets 40 damage. 2 ways of looking at this: Offensively, I have 12.5% more projected damage versus the claymore.* Defensively, the nighthawk is receiving 8.9% less damage than the claymore.* *this is a ratio mechanic that causes 2 different values. It seems weird at first until you realize how the wording plays. One is how much more damage is the claymore taking compared to the NH (ratio of C:NH). The other is how much less damage is the Nighthawk taking compared to the Claymore (ratio of NH:C) Both ways show that in no way do you approach 20% reduced damage, and certainly not higher than 20% reduced damage. However the Developers will try to convince you that this is not true because in Imagination land, they are allowed to assume all resistances are 0 to start with and there's no such thing as diminished returns in EVE. Fact is, the gaps that Caldari and Gallente have are far inferior to the more spread, resist gap fills of the Amarr and Matar. When you make 2 similar ships with other drastically severe balance problems like the NH and Claymore, this resist gap really shows how bad the balance is. So glad our developers can post on here how smart they are about their mechanics and how closely they sit to each other in the office to assure us they know what they're doing. Maybe you should learn core mechanics and fundamentals of the game first. This is just another in a long line of failures.
Baren Aura of Darkness Nulli Secunda 50	Posted - 2013.08.01 19:06:00 - [283] - Quote Wow this is going to be crazy CS rebalance Sleipnir: Minmatar Battlecruiser skill bonuses: 10% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret damage (was 5% RoF) 7.5% bonus to shield boosting amount Command Ships skill bonuses: 10%(+5) bonus to Medium Projectile Turret damage 10% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret falloff plus this Medium Artillery: +10% Rate of Fire -5% Tracking = holy **** crazy sleipnir
Ranger 1 Ranger Corp 4429	Posted - 2013.08.01 19:06:00 - [284] - Quote glepp wrote: Ranger 1 wrote: glepp wrote: Ranger 1 wrote: That's actually a pretty decent buff to base resists, and it's effectiveness is dependent on what the enemy is shooting. Lasers do EM/Thermal by the way, and Caldari frequently are using Kinetic missiles due to their bonus restrictions. Projectile ammo frequently will be affected as well. Yes, it's not as high resists across the board and more vulnerable to high alpha in a fleet situation, but hardly an easy target if set up properly. Past that point the 15% boost all active tanking just got isn't anything to sneeze at, especially in an encounter like the 20 man BS fight you gave as an example. It's a decent buff if the opponent is shooting Multifreq, Phased Plasma or Scourge, yes. What is the damage distribution on scorch, the most commonly used crystal in a kiting Pulse Oracle? (Answer:36EM/8therm) Any Missile ship shooting kin at a Gallente hull desrves to lose, and it's not very common now. With the changes to Phoons and Ravens, do you really think this large-sigged ship will survive long in a BS fight without ignoring its hull bonus? In a 20 v 20 BS fight, 2k local reps is worth nothing, since you need to gimp you buffer to fit it. Think paint+webs+large sig+lowish buffer. Yes, I'd take any of the CS we are discussing into that. Without the slightest hesitation. With local reps on your Astarte? Yep. How I'd play it would depend entirely on how the Ravens/Phoons were set up. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base.
Sean Parisi Fugutive Task Force A T O N E M E N T 328	Posted - 2013.08.01 19:07:00 - [285] - Quote XXSketchxx wrote: So the nighthawk is still shit. The cerb is still shit. What do you guys have against caldari missile boats? But atleast they get to shoot Kinetic fist missiles. Think about it, Kinetic - Fist - Missiles.
Vince Draken D00M. Northern Coalition. 22	Posted - 2013.08.01 19:15:00 - [286] - Quote Terrible changes shame on you Fozzie
Goldensaver ArTech Expeditions 207	Posted - 2013.08.01 19:16:00 - [287] - Quote Witchking Angmar wrote: Goldensaver wrote: No, 10.9375 to 10. Math man, learn it. 5*1.5/.75 = 10. Bonuses stack on each other, RoF is done by division due to the interaction, yadda yadda. Yeah, edited my post.. Thought it was damage bonus, not ROF at first. Alright, alls good. I'm just getting sick and tired of people calling Fozzie out about this stuff without even checking their math. It's not the first time in the thread it's happened. Someone was claiming the Sleipnir went from 11.666 turrets to 10 as opposed to 11.25. I'm sorta undecided on the changes, though I'm largely becoming happy because of them, but I just can't stand people spreading misinformation about this stuff.
I'm Down Macabre Votum Northern Coalition. 198	Posted - 2013.08.01 19:19:00 - [288] - Quote Goldensaver wrote: Witchking Angmar wrote: Goldensaver wrote: No, 10.9375 to 10. Math man, learn it. 5*1.5/.75 = 10. Bonuses stack on each other, RoF is done by division due to the interaction, yadda yadda. Yeah, edited my post.. Thought it was damage bonus, not ROF at first. Alright, alls good. I'm just getting sick and tired of people calling Fozzie out about this stuff without even checking their math. It's not the first time in the thread it's happened. Someone was claiming the Sleipnir went from 11.666 turrets to 10 as opposed to 11.25. I'm sorta undecided on the changes, though I'm largely becoming happy because of them, but I just can't stand people spreading misinformation about this stuff. yeah, the devs aren't doing any misinformation of their own :-/
Xequecal Ministry of War Amarr Empire 17	Posted - 2013.08.01 19:20:00 - [289] - Quote XXSketchxx wrote: The cerb is still shit. You're clinically insane.
Lady Naween Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel 171	Posted - 2013.08.01 19:25:00 - [290] - Quote PLEASE give one gallente ship a resistance bonus. armour rep amount is useless in a larger fleet. please please please please please please!!!!!!!!
Ms Valkyrie State War Academy Caldari State 3	Posted - 2013.08.01 19:26:00 - [291] - Quote CCP Ytterbium wrote: Yep, Fozzie, Rise and I never talk to each other regarding ship balancing changes, despite the fact we sit 5 meters apart. Only 5 meters from the portland dude? God please save Yitterbium's and Fozzie's souls!
Leskit The Night Wardens Viro Mors Non Est 38	Posted - 2013.08.01 19:27:00 - [292] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Damnation: Amarr Battlecruiser skill bonuses: 4% bonus to all Armor Resistances 10% bonus to Heavy Assault Missile and Heavy Missile velocity Command Ships skill bonuses: 10% bonus to all Armor hitpoints 10% bonus to Heavy Assault Missile and Heavy Missile damage (Was link bonus) Fixed Bonus: Can fit up to three Warfare Link modules, 15% bonus to strength of Armored Warfare and Information Warfare links Slot layout: 7 H, 4 M, 6 L , 2 turrets (-2), 5 Launchers Fittings: 1300(-290) PWG, 500(+25) CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 3500(+37) / 5000(+395) / 4300(-24) Base shield resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 0 / 20 / 70 / 87.5 Base armor resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 50 / 35 / 62.5 / 80 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 3375 / 750s / 4.5 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 150 / 0.7(-0.004) / 13500000 / 13.10s(-0.08) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 (+25) / 100 (+75) Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 70km (+20) / 210 / 7(+1) Sensor strength: 22 Radar (+6) Signature radius: 265 Cargo capacity: 645 As much as like like keeping the 10% armor amount bonus, this will do less damage than a sacrelige (499 damn vs 516 sac) For upping the abso's resistances and base armor amount, I just can't see the trade-off. Most of the other CS's look like heavy dps platforms that can also stay on field a little longer, but the Damnation still looks like the sole ship for boosting only. Could we get that 10% damage changed to a ROF bonus? I was really really hoping to have a HAM spewing monster in the new damnation.
Ersahi Kir The Eminence Front SpaceMonkey's Alliance 233	Posted - 2013.08.01 19:27:00 - [293] - Quote I'm Down wrote: Let's futher talk about the Resistance gaps in Command ships. The resistance bonus system to command ships really doesn't make much sense Let me explain this clearly before people chime in: A ship with a 50% natural resistance taking 100 damage will receive 50 damage A ship with 50% natural resistance taking 100 damage with a 20% resistance bonus will have 55% resistance, and therefore take 45 damage. The only time a resist bonus actually matters the way the Devs run numbers is when you start at 0% resist across the board. This hardly ever happens as a matter of base statistics on all ships. Furthering the problem is Tech 2 resistances. A Tech 2 ship with a 20% resist bonus does not actually receive 20% less damage than a comparable tech 1 ship. Instead, it receives 20% less damage than a comparable ship with the same base resistances. 2 totally different mechanics at play. Your math is pretty atrocious. If you have 50% base resist, and your hull ends up with a 20% bonus to resists, your ship will have a total of 50 + (100-50).2 total resist, in this case 60% total resist. So if you get hit with 100 base damage with just the 50% resist you take 50 damage. If get hit with 100 base damage with 60% reisit you take 40 damage. It doesn't matter what the base resist is, you will always take 20% less damage. But the effect that has is a 25% boost to survivibility. To illustrate this, take a ship with 500 hp. If you're taking the damage from above with just the base resist it takes 10 seconds to burn through the HP. If you have the extra resist profile it takes 12.5 second, or 25% longer to burn through the same amount of hp. If you don't understand everything I just said you probably shouldn't be attacking the devs for their understanding of the game mechanics. I'm Down wrote:* How is this bad for Tech 2 balance. Well lets further examine the claymore / nighthawk conundrum I posted about earlier. Claymore without any bonuses has 220 total resist for an average of 55 Nighthawk with bonuses has a 240 total resist for an average of 60% damage reduction To bring your attrocious math full circle lets look at just this statement. Claymore: Base shield resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 75 / 60 / 40 / 50 = 225 base resists Nighthawk: Base shield resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 0 / 80(+10) / 70(+7.5) / 50 = 200 base resists The nighthawk with the 20% resist bonus: EM = 0 + (100-0).2 = 20 TH = 80 + (100-80).2 = 84 Kin = 70 + (100-70).2 = 76 Exp = 50 + (100-50).2 = 60 240 total resists I have no idea what you're trying to say besides this because whatever math you thought was supporting your argument is bad.
Goldensaver ArTech Expeditions 207	Posted - 2013.08.01 19:28:00 - [294] - Quote I'm Down wrote: yeah, the devs aren't doing any misinformation of their own :-/ Such as? Are they posting stats while claiming they're completely different? Can you link me to the post where a Dev says that a ship gets 100k EHP but only gets 50k EHP in a maximum tank setup with perfect boosts? Can you share with me the post where a Dev claims that a ship will get 15 effective turrets where it only gets 10? It's one thing for them to think that things will be fine and post their belief in the matter. It's another to perform the calculations incorrectly and spread incorrect information.
Ranger 1 Ranger Corp 4429	Posted - 2013.08.01 19:32:00 - [295] - Quote I'm Down wrote: Goldensaver wrote: Witchking Angmar wrote: Goldensaver wrote: No, 10.9375 to 10. Math man, learn it. 5*1.5/.75 = 10. Bonuses stack on each other, RoF is done by division due to the interaction, yadda yadda. Yeah, edited my post.. Thought it was damage bonus, not ROF at first. Alright, alls good. I'm just getting sick and tired of people calling Fozzie out about this stuff without even checking their math. It's not the first time in the thread it's happened. Someone was claiming the Sleipnir went from 11.666 turrets to 10 as opposed to 11.25. I'm sorta undecided on the changes, though I'm largely becoming happy because of them, but I just can't stand people spreading misinformation about this stuff. yeah, the devs aren't doing any misinformation of their own :-/ It's not really the Dev's fault if people don't understand what the numbers mean, despite how many times it's been explained. I'm pretty sure Fozzie and Rise know how the formula's work, but thanks for the recap. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base.
Minister of Death Ministry of War Amarr Empire 60	Posted - 2013.08.01 19:35:00 - [296] - Quote Not a giant fan of these changes, sorry to say :( Also, Nighthawk .vs Vulture... Nighthawk: Signature radius: 285 Cargo capacity: 700 Vulture: Signature radius: 285 Cargo capacity: 400 (+55) Claymore: Signature radius: 240 Why does the Claymore have such a smaller sig rad? Why does the Vulture have ~half the cargo of a Nighthawk?
Phoenix Jones Shockwave Innovations Surely You're Joking 133	Posted - 2013.08.01 19:35:00 - [297] - Quote Lady Naween wrote: PLEASE give one gallente ship a resistance bonus. armour rep amount is useless in a larger fleet. please please please please please please!!!!!!!! I'm eyeballing the Eos and the Astarte. There is an issue. The Astarte is potentially a damage monster, ontop of it, it can now fit links (the good ones for Gallente). It now has the potential to outlast a small fight (small to medium fleet fight) due to its ability to repair monkey itself (that with both the NOS changes and the Repairer changes, it could essentially be a endless fight against a Astarte unless you can bring a Substantial amount of DPS to break it. The same could be said about the Damnation but most don't fit repairers on it (cause it makes it lose hit points and has no bonus). The viable choice is the EOS, but it has also become a possible DPS monster Magnet, having the same tank as the Astarte, but now with Heavy drones that will not Miss, almost always hit for close to if not full damage (even on cruisers and frigates, note the alpha of sentry drones on Dominix's in the tournament), and ontop of that, now has turrets that will pretty much never miss either. The EOS has the potential to be a Dominix on the Field, that can repair itself, launch a full fight of super tracking heavies, boost the group and do damage if brawling. Giving one of the ships extra resists would be... well a bit crazy. (I'm being frank I would love to get the Amarr resists on gallente ships but the repairing bonus would be overkill). Not all fights are 100 Vs, 100, sometimes is 20 vs 20, or 40 vs 40.
Extraterra Twinstar Universal Services Test Alliance Please Ignore 6	Posted - 2013.08.01 19:37:00 - [298] - Quote NICE CHANGES. ILOVE IT
Ivana Twinkle GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 385	Posted - 2013.08.01 19:43:00 - [299] - Quote haha boosting claymores will be the first ship nuked off the field now.
Baren Aura of Darkness Nulli Secunda 50	Posted - 2013.08.01 19:43:00 - [300] - Quote CCP FOZZIE. is there a reason all Command ships expect the knighthawk have Power Grid over 1200 NIGHTHAWK Fittings: 825 PWG (+115)

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