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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Lara Feng
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
0
   |
Posted - 2013.10.24 14:49:00 -
[571] - Quote
So i had some time to let the changes sink in. I tried every of the new command ship models on the testserver. I tried to get accustomed to them and tried not to be biased. I tried to find reasons for and against these changes. And these are my final thoughts on the subject:
Consitency:
Yes, these changes will "enhance" consistency within these shipclasses. This was one of the main arguments for this change...and at the same time it-¦s one of the most stunning arguments against it. Fact is: There is no consistency between T1 and T2 or faction ships. There never was and there never will be (unless you guys want to drown in a shitstorm of massive proportions when you change the ships that really a lot of people fly. I-¦m already looking forward to the Hawk getting the Kestrel model.). Just a few examples:
Punisher - Vengeance
Cormorant - Flycatcher
Catalyst - New Eris (notice how you are even introducing new inconsistencies with Rubicon?)
Merlin - Hawk
Armageddon - NavyGeddon/Redeemer
Phoon - Panther
Bellicose - Rapier/Huggin (different weapons)
Executioner - Malediction
Incursus - Ishkur
Coercer - Heretic
etc. etc. etc. - I could go on forever here, but i think you get the point.
So the consistency argument is null and void. This can-¦t be a major reason for this change.
What should a comandship look like?
I don-¦t know about you, but i think a commandship should look like projection of overwhelming power and durability when it enters the battlefield. The tier 1 battlecruiser hulls all fit this image extremely well. They are bulky, scary bricks that look overwhelmingly fearsome. None of the tier 2 hulls matches this image as well as the tier 1 hulls do. I actually like the tier 2 hulls as well, especially the Myrmidon. I always looked forward to an upgraded version. But when a perfectly fine looking Eos needs to go because of it: Hell No!. Most people who are positive which these changes mention the T2 Myrmidon as a reason. And the Myrm deserves an upgraded version, why not as a faction battlecruiser for example? Oh, wait....because against all consistency (see? there it is again) you decided to make the Brutix the gallentean faction BC.
Lore
Since their introduction these ships where able to build a reputation. They are iconic figures, well present in ingame lore. When somebody mentions a Sleipnir, every player older than 1 year immediately imagines a lead spewing, beastly looking (yeah beastly...maybe like that 8 legged horse from mythology it is named after?), bulky ship coming at you while tanking everything you throw at it. Many people have fond memories of these ships. Especially since they are not your everyday throwaway spacemobile, but something rather special. Why break these images when the in game lore is the one major thing that makes eve special for so many people?
Diversity
The tier 1 BC hulls were always less used than their tier 2 counterparts which are basically omnipresent. So it was nice to see them being used in their T2 commandship outfit. Do we really need more Drakes, Hurricanes, Harbingers and Myrmidons? They are everywhere. Yeah, the statistics changed a bit after recent rebalancing, but still: They are used much more often then the tier 1 hulls.
Design
Yeah, the tier one hulls look rather edgy in some cases. They are not everyones taste. The tier 2 hulls are much more streamlined and...more bland. Unique looking ships are a plus if the overall concept is fine, which it is for the tier 1 hulls.
Public Reception
I don-¦t actually think that there is a huge community acceptance for these changes. Many people commenting positively on here give no reasons at all why these changes are needed or supported by them. Other than that they like a particular model after the change. I think you might have gotten sidetracked a little bit after that Eos thread a while back. Sure everyone wanted a new Myrmidon model, people were disappointed they didn-¦t get the faction Myrm. And on the other hand people who were not in favor of these changes didn-¦t even read that thread, because it did not had any relevance to them. Also it was rather unrelated to actual upcoming expansions. People are usually using these sites of the forum when changes are announced in dev blogs. And the feedback you got here is rather obvious and much more representative. The feedback posted at third party sites was rather devastating as well.
Change
Yes, people want new commandship models. And you have announced that the models will be reworked in the future. But then why change them into completely different hulls first? And here comes the only thing i can think of why it would be a good idea to change these models (but it is a thing in favor of the Art Department and not of the actual customer): The tier 2 hulls are easier to work with! Their smooth looks make it easier to come up with upgraded designs. Hell, maybe you even got an upgraded Drake model from back when you revamped it the other day? If that really is the case (i am just speculating here), than this would be a sorry excuse to leave a sour taste with many of your customers. And this is not some unpopular change that needs to be implemented for the greater good, for balancing or gameplay reasons. It is just a design change that has no actual solid reasoning while annoying the greater part of your customers.
Summary
I couldn-¦t come up with any valid arguments why this would be a desirable change. If you have these arguments, then please let us know. I think the reception for this change would be much greater if people understood why they are necessary. Until then i can say nothing more but: Keep the old models until you develop new versions of these exact models. |
Tinukeda'ya Naskingar
Minmatar Expeditions ltd.
22
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Posted - 2013.10.25 12:30:00 -
[572] - Quote
Lara Feng wrote:^ the above text ^
I could not agree more. I tried to calm down. To let it sink in.... I just can't get along with that... And the worst thing is that there is ZERO communication from CCP...
The explanation they gave us for the changes is indeed complete nuts... And as the post above states, it would be much easier to get along with that if we would have some reasonable explanation. I would still not fly the Slurricane unless the future new model would get HUGE upgrade and will only barely resemble the Hurricane hull (if at all)....
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." --á Arthur C. Clarke |
Flyinghotpocket
Amarrian Vengeance
Team Amarrica
188
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 22:16:00 -
[573] - Quote
im tired of this game getting darker and darker. i want the freaking GOLD paint back on the abso, not this crap color shiney brown. and i really want the BRIGHT red back on the abso, AS WELL as the guardian. the guardian litterly looks like a flying turd |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
401
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 23:48:00 -
[574] - Quote
Flyinghotpocket wrote:im tired of this game getting darker and darker. i want the freaking GOLD paint back on the abso, not this crap color shiney brown. and i really want the BRIGHT red back on the abso, AS WELL as the guardian. the guardian litterly looks like a flying turd
Darker and quieter.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
1375
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 23:56:00 -
[575] - Quote
Flyinghotpocket wrote:im tired of this game getting darker and darker. i want the freaking GOLD paint back on the abso, not this crap color shiney brown. and i really want the BRIGHT red back on the abso, AS WELL as the guardian. the guardian litterly looks like a flying turd
My guess they hired a couple artists about a year ago who liked darker colours.
To be honest, it makes sense for ships to be dark.
Though I don't think camouflage is a big deal in deep space, dark would seem better.
That being said, the absolution was a fantastic looking ship.
Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning.
The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
Unknown Contact1
Odins Auge
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 15:12:00 -
[576] - Quote
Ferox hull has edges, spikes, is ugly, it looks like a machine build for one purpose: war.
Drake hull is boring.
No one wants more  Drake hulls out there.
Dislike!
Cheerio |
Daemon Ceed
TunDraGon
361
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 21:44:00 -
[577] - Quote
No, not my Sleipnir! I fly the Hurricane all of the time, and the distinct visual difference between that and my Sleipnir is huge to me. Lets not forget as well, the Sleipnir really gained a huge popularity boost during AT IX when utilized with ASBs. While the ships in Eve don't always fit the descriptions of their names, the current Sleipnir hull looks a lot closer to an "Eight legged mythical horse" than the Hurricane. If anything, I'd take the Claymore and make that a Hurricane hull it's hull is more swordlike and edged.
Personally, I think changing the hulls of any of the command ships is only going to cause more confusion and is generally a "bad" idea, but take into consideration the ship's popularity as it currently stands and also the name and shape association. People have over the years developed an emotional connection to not only how their ship operates, but how it looks.
The Sandbox = Play however the hell you want. |
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
443
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 23:14:00 -
[578] - Quote
I don't understand why we don't just create nice unique new models for these instead of tapping other ships. Does it save resource memory to reuse already in service designs?
-á-á- remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not-á "afk" cloaking-á-
[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG] |
Saberlily Whyteshadow
Novum Matutinus
8
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 16:18:00 -
[579] - Quote
Barbara Nichole wrote:I don't understand why we don't just create nice unique new models for these instead of tapping other ships. Does it save resource memory to reuse already in service designs?
Its because CCP art department is bland and has no ideas of there own. So they would reskin old ships and call it new..
Im sure its the same art department that would cry if they removed the dust clouds in space, cause they worked hard on it.. |
Foxstar Damaskeenus
Doughboys
Shadow Cartel
31
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 13:35:00 -
[580] - Quote
Amarr no opinion.
I love the Caldari = Evil Vengeful Drake
Gallente = Beautiful Inspiring Myrmidon
The Sleip, I'm not real impressed. I hear most pilots like the cyclone hull, might have something to do with running active on cyclone/sleip and Hurricane is usually fit as a buffer armor brawler. Therefore it seems the Hurricane fits with the smooth metallic and heavy looks of a Star Destroyer.
The way people fit the Sleip, the fins of the cyclone and its unusual face go with it. But if you are going to go with a Hurricane hull, the navy Hurricane is already camo.
Make the color scheme and the solar panels evil and satanic looking. Pvp pilots love to fly this thing and it takes quite a bit of skill training.
This is what the Sleip should look like: http://cdn-www.cracked.com/articleimages/ob/satan/Anton_LaVey_photo.jpg
In short Hurricane hull looks like a ship with heavy armor, cyclone hull looks like a ship with electronics/shields. Just my opinion, send me a billion isk |
Kirren D'marr
State Protectorate
Caldari State
146
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 20:16:00 -
[581] - Quote
Barbara Nichole wrote:I don't understand why we don't just create nice unique new models for these instead of tapping other ships. Does it save resource memory to reuse already in service designs?
That's the truly boneheaded part about this whole issue. According to CCP, they are planning to make new models for these command ships, so right now they are going through all of this mess to change these hulls, only to change them again!
Why a switch on/off?
Because the new animation doesn't add anything to gameplay and it's graphically annoying.
In other words, it's worse than bad: it's useless.
Simple as that.-á-á-á-á-á - Kina Ayami |
Job Valador
Super Moose Defence Force
319
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 22:42:00 -
[582] - Quote
i want new models for all of my t2 ships
"The stone exhibited a profound lack of movement." |
Kiithnaras
Black Ice Protectorate
6
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 16:21:00 -
[583] - Quote
Looks pretty darn cool; Though I second the need for more Awesome on the Sleipnir, and I shall lament the loss of the Red Prophecy of Doom - That beast was awesome. |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Ineluctable.
78
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 18:50:00 -
[584] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:[quote=Rivr Luzade]So, if these models really must be used... Can we at least get rid of the following on the Harbinger model for both the Harbinger and the new Absolution? Harbinger Front FlawsYes, I am well aware that the upper flaw comes from the fact that 3D artists only do 1 half of the actual model and than just mirror it, but can't the do a better job at assigning and smoothening the borders? And what is this chiloschisis at the end of the pick for? |
Naraish Adarn
Alexylva Paradox
58
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 08:24:00 -
[585] - Quote
i'm thoroughly dissapointed in their replacement of current abso model with harbies. since i rather liked the blood red and golden tinted "eagle head" silhuette that Abso has |
Hexatron Ormand
aetas nova
Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
29
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 10:28:00 -
[586] - Quote
I think those look pretty amazing. Let me give some personal opinions about them:
- The Eos as Mymridon almost seems "thats how it should have always been" like.
- I like the color scheme on the harbinger, even though it could use some tweaks on turret placement, for better looks.
- Was never such a huge fan of the Drake look wise, but i have to say that in this color scheme it looks really cool. So the nighthawk turned out better than i thought it would.
- The sleipnir though.. i am a bit underwhelmed by it, especially now that there is a fleet issue hurricane that also has a camo-print. I really hope that it gets a lot of love in the "t2 grafics upgrade" pass sometimes later, cause otherwise i have to say that this one is lacking a little.
|
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
CAStabouts
922
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 17:46:00 -
[587] - Quote
Kirren D'marr wrote:Barbara Nichole wrote:I don't understand why we don't just create nice unique new models for these instead of tapping other ships. Does it save resource memory to reuse already in service designs? That's the truly boneheaded part about this whole issue. According to CCP, they are planning to make new models for these command ships, so right now they are going through all of this mess to change these hulls, only to change them again!
The difference is that this change puts the command ships into the new paradigm (new hulls but also the manufacturing and invention changes) right now and leaves the future change as simply shipping out updated models - exactly like how the new Marauder models happened. There won't be any "mess" in the future with this.
I am of course hoping that the Art Department comes up with something really good for the Command Ships - all eight of them - when it's time to give them their proper T2-modified hull models. While I love the Hurricane hull, I do admit it needs.. something more as the great and venerable Sleipnir beyond just the Brutor-style solar wings. |
AnJuan Jackson
Disingenuous Assertions
54
|
Posted - 2013.11.05 01:32:00 -
[588] - Quote
Thank you!!!!
I asked for this about a year ago I believe, to make the Hurricane one of the commandship models.
My prayers were answered. I never doubted you CPP Gods. |
Tinukeda'ya Naskingar
Minmatar Expeditions ltd.
26
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 22:30:00 -
[589] - Quote
Why does everything except this get 2nd updated iteration after receiving such negative player feedback? At least an "It's gonna stay suck it up" from official source would be nice... Just getting more and more disappointing... |
Ynot Eyob
Nisroc Angels
The Obsidian Front
371
|
Posted - 2013.11.08 12:54:00 -
[590] - Quote
Grarr Dexx wrote:The Sleipnir shouldn't have its hull swapped around. Can't you make an exception and turn the Claymore into that instead? You've done it for Gallente with the navy battlecruisers, before.
Best idear ever.
The Sleipnir has been very used and very known in the 6 years iv played. I would fell a huge lose if this hull is changed to the hurricane.
Think about the Classic Alliance Tournament, where there was no doubt once the Sleipnir teams was used. The Cyclone hull for the Sleirpir has become an icon in EVE, please do not change this, change the Claymore if any. |
Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire
307
|
Posted - 2013.11.08 15:00:00 -
[591] - Quote
I personally love the new ASB-cane, errr Sleipnir. It's just to amazing to fly it again, this time for real (with doubleneuts and invuln and 3 gyros and all that fancy stuff).
Undocking the new sleip for the first time was a shock, have to admit. Felt like riding pure heresy, but quickly got used to it and now I'm sadface about my TQ sleips :( Cannot wait.
The Eos though is a gorgeous piece of tritanium, that for sure. |
Joanna RB
Twenty Questions
Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
10
|
Posted - 2013.11.08 19:15:00 -
[592] - Quote
Westerly Winds wrote:Literally un-subbing this account after this post. Why is the drake model EVEN IN THE GAME? I swear this art department...
I bet if you showed a picture or a 3D model of a drake to 100 non-eve players noone would guess it was supposed to be a spaceship... |
Oraac Ensor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
298
|
Posted - 2013.11.08 20:35:00 -
[593] - Quote
Joanna RB wrote:Westerly Winds wrote:Literally un-subbing this account after this post. Why is the drake model EVEN IN THE GAME? I swear this art department... I bet if you showed a picture or a 3D model of a drake to 100 non-eve players noone would guess it was supposed to be a spaceship...
I'd take that bet. |
Alkampfer 1
Chronos Committee.
0
|
Posted - 2013.11.10 11:04:00 -
[594] - Quote
Do i really need to send some Vikings to Iceland to loot,rapGé¼ and pilage CCP offices?!
If you dont have any new models for command ships then leave them alone,at least my Nighthawk.Leave the "lets switch one model for another and slap some pretty paint on and voila - new texture command ship" mode of work and make new models and then draw new textures for them.
Or if you are too lazy for that at least create a model combining parts of two ore more existing models together.  |
El Jin'meiko
Filthy Casuals
4
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 00:19:00 -
[595] - Quote
I rather like the way you say you don't have time to implement the changes while posting what I can only assume are the finished retextures (call it what they are). Does this mean that between this post and the release date you honestly can't take the meagre time it should take for a company such as CCP to actually complete? |
Oraac Ensor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
299
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 00:49:00 -
[596] - Quote
El Jin'meiko wrote:I rather like the way you say you don't have time to implement the changes . . . ?
Where did he say that? |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
484
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 03:26:00 -
[597] - Quote
Viva la Waffle Iron! |
Madhero
Remnants of the Forgotten
Seekers of the Unseen
0
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 18:45:00 -
[598] - Quote
The plan is to change the visuals of the ships as follows (the names of the ships are not changing at all):
Absolution becomes a Carthum Harbinger
Eos becomes a CreoDron Myrmidon
Nighthawk becomes a Kaalakiota Drake
Sleipnir becomes a Boundless Creations Hurricane
This change would affect the visuals of each of those four ships, as well as manufacturing and invention for them. For that reason I want to get it announced as early as possible.
This change would not affect the stats or bonuses of the ships at all. Any changes to those are an entirely different discussion.
For manufactors like my corp with BPO's to invent Command ships say the "cyclone" to make the Sleipnir or the Claymore will not now have to get the Hurricane BPO's to make furture Sleipnirs and Claymores? Which we have, but for others who don't have all BPO's will have to adjusts to the new base ship BPO to make any furture Command ships?
|
Ragnar Alestorm
Bacon Empire
0
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 13:33:00 -
[599] - Quote
seriously...
the absolution as it is right now is one of the most beautiful ships in the whole game. and it looks like a brick. a brick of pure awesome. just like its tank -> changed to a golden turd
the nighthawk always had something special about it...i feel like the ferox hull really goes well with the name -> changed to a dull pseudo drake
the sleipnir........is the sleipnir. the hull itself doesnt look that good but somehow it became so iconic and badass, its not even funny. -> changed to a cane (which looks awesome, but still.......its just not the same.) with a VERY meh color scheme.
and finally the eos....by far the best change. which is not that hard. see above. myrm hull is awesome. and underused. im cool with that.
of course.....all of the above statements are purely subjective...BUT! we already got the same hulls (except the myrm of course.) reskinned as faction battlecruisers (which are stupid in general...i mean come on, why nerf ships and re-release the unnerfed variation as faction? ....sounds silly right?), so WHY do we need them AGAIN?
gg wp ccp. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
CAStabouts
1036
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 13:51:00 -
[600] - Quote
Ragnar Alestorm wrote:
the sleipnir........is the sleipnir. the hull itself doesnt look that good but somehow it became so iconic and badass, its not even funny. -> changed to a cane (which looks awesome, but still.......its just not the same.) with a VERY meh color scheme.
What I really don't understand about this complaint - which keeps coming up again and again, btw - is why nobody complains about the color scheme being bad or meh until it appears on a Hurricane hull. It's the same exact color scheme that the Cyclone-based Sleipnir has RIGHT NOW on TQ! |
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