Guys just give up.

SOMERblink is the EVE golden child now, CCP doesnt want all these attacks against them.

They are keeping their hundreds of billions of ships, and the vegas thing is still happening.

Stop being so jelous. Just go play Star Citizen https://robertsspaceindustries.com/about-the-game if you don't like it.

PS

I am officially giving up. Going to just lapse my remaining account and play star craft or league of legends until star citizen is up and running.

Adios

Frying, the point is that


YOU not seeing grey areas is a factor of your perspective, others see things differently and therein lies the shadowy boundary rules. The grey.

m

What makes you think that CCP will listen to you and the playerbase when a situation blows up again?

* This issue is not going to be resolved quickly. The problem was a long time in the making, and it will be months in the resolution, if for no other reason than there are significant legal issues CCP has to take into consideration. Furthermore, a quick resolution is unlikely to be one you will like.

Sorry if CCP's legal department is so incompetent that it takes them months to work out a problem that should have been considered years ago. But that doesn't mean I have to continue paying them while they find their collective asses. That's not rage, BTW, it's simple personal finance. If I'm unhappy with a product, I'm not going to continue to buy it for a yet to be determined number of months in the hope that it will improve. I'll stop buying it, and only buy it if it improves.

So again, that's one less dissenting opinion for your eventual, redundant survey.

It is my experience that:

a) CCP listens to CSM after the sh*t hits the fan.

b) CCP listens to CSM when they brief us in advance about something and we say "that is a lump of sh*t approaching a fan". Note that in this case, you probably never hear about the situation."

CCP is the King. The King gets to set the rules, and if the King decides to change the rules, he does so by divine right.

The one thing that is entirely predictable is that no matter what, CSM will get sh*t on. (potential future candidates, take note!)

WRT to the politician analogy made a few posts back, keep in mind that CCP isn't a politician, CCP is the King. The King gets to set the rules, and if the King decides to change the rules, he does so by divine right.

CSM gets to tell the King, "Your Majesty, we believe what you are doing is bad for the Kingdom."

Gentlepods,

Since people have taken it upon themselves to deliver some "realtalk", you will forgive me if I take the opportunity to do the same.

Participants in this thread should be aware that:

* This issue is not going to be resolved quickly. The problem was a long time in the making, and it will be months in the resolution, if for no other reason than there are significant legal issues CCP has to take into consideration. Furthermore, a quick resolution is unlikely to be one you will like.

* Raging and repeating your position at every opportunity is not constructive, and actively hurts your argument. All it does is sh*t up the thread, and drown out other voices. If you want to be taken seriously, you want to encourage broad discussion. Threads that have a high percentage of posts by a small number of posters are not taken seriously by anyone.

* The reason for the surveys -- both CSMs and CCPs -- is to gather more data from more members of the community. CSM needs that data in order to make the best possible arguments on your behalf; "the data says" is a better argument than "the opinion of my ass is".

I understand that people are upset. I am upset too -- my personal position is very similar to that of Argus Sorn. But giving in to your anger will not get you a good result; it just makes it easier to avoid addressing the merits of your arguments.

Best
Trebor

[quote=Trebor Daehdoow]Gentlepods,

3. You have 40+ pages in this thread, granted with quit a bit of repetitive opinions, some hysteria/rage, but ultimately with a clear indication of the problem at hand and suggestions for its solution by many many different voices, not just a few repeaters. I as a normal player have read through the majority of this entire stack of posts and the least I expect from the CSM is that they do that too even if it isn't much fun. Grab a cold beer, bring in a box of cookies, and start reading. Make sure you take a pee break and have a smoke, then come back. Use a pen and a paper to note down the key points of the most interesting posts (there are several in between). Now you don't need the survey.

But they are not giving the answers CCP wants.

In a survey you can influence answers by the way you phrase questions.

Something marketeers and politicians have known for a long time.

Aknowledging the use of isk tokens to reward the GTC referrals in Somer Blink, EVE-GAMES.NET and other websites, CCP has apparently allowed everyone to set up their own GTC resale referral system+isk token reward.
Official confirmation from CCP on this would be nice before we proceed so that we not risk getting accounts banned for misunderstandings.

A real CSM member who cares would be a bit more vocal and a bit less "let's do a poll to see if breaking the law is OK or not".

It's a matter of common sense.

If I had an ISK for every time someone's told me what a "real CSM" would do, I'd be richer than SOMER.

If I had an ISK for every time someone's told me what a "real CSM" would do, I'd be richer than SOMER.

If I had an ISK for every time someone's told me what a "real CSM" would do, I'd be richer than SOMER.

If I had an ISK for every time someone's told me what a "real CSM" would do, I'd be richer than SOMER.

If I had an ISK for every time someone's told me what a "real CSM" would do, I'd be richer than SOMER.

No, that is a bad idea, Kate.

We should discuss the issue without resorting to repetition, misquoting or over the top arguments.

The issue does need fixing and we are working on that fix.

Putting words in our mouths to inflame and troll isn't the way to progress. Threats to leave and unsubscribe make some sense as hitting a company where it lives is effective but if you are leaving then you shouldn't have a lot of say in what those of us staying behind live with for rules.

I understand that some of you are angry . . . good. It shows you really care about this game. Otherwise your reaction would be 'meh, whatever'. But harness that anger. Apply it in a focused way rather than spinning on the floor kicking and yelling 'but I want it my way' over and over.

Some of you are doing this and I appreciate the effort whether I agree with them or not. To put down what you want in simple statements without all the emotional baggage is hard, I get that. (I have kids)

BUT THAT is what helps us move forward. That is what makes people read and think and consider change.

Nobody asked you to shut up, just to pause, take a breath and present your arguments in calm rational way without all the repetition. I know that goes directly against the rules of threadnaughts but ti will work far better in the long run.

As for me, my biggest fear is that if things become black and white we may lose a LOT of the community support for other sites, other people who have done so much for the game but may wind up on the wrong side of some line drawn in ink. It is why I like the grey. Sure, Eve players being who they are will dance in the grey areas to find where the line actually is and that is their right. But I really really do not want to see some babies thrown out with the bathwater.

So making a snap decision and drawing hard and fast rules . . . well look over at the TOS thread and see how much that form of handling problems has worked out. So we listen to you, or try to. We talk to CCP and try to find what was done and why, what will happen next and make a format for the future that will address the current issues.

m

The one thing that is entirely predictable is that no matter what, CSM will get sh*t on. (potential future candidates, take note!)

WRT to the politician analogy made a few posts back, keep in mind that CCP isn't a politician, CCP is the King. The King gets to set the rules, and if the King decides to change the rules, he does so by divine right.

CSM gets to tell the King, "Your Majesty, we believe what you are doing is bad for the Kingdom."

If I had an ISK for every time someone's told me what a "real CSM" would do, I'd be richer than SOMER.