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Somer Blink - Asked to stop but have got worse!

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Kirren D'marr State Protectorate Caldari State 185	Posted - 2013.11.05 19:44:00 - [541] - Quote Thalos Elongus wrote: - CCP introduced PLEX - And with that reduced the Price on ISK Fixed that for you. Prior to PLEX, there was already a price on ISK. There was quite a bit of illegal RMT going on, which put a higher price on ISK. PLEX was introduced in part as a way to reduce and control the market value of ISK, and by so doing, undercut some of the RMT botting operations. Of course, it was also introduced so CCP could get a good chunk of the money being exchanged for RMT, but I can't really fault them for that. If someone is going to make money off of virtual goods, it may as well be the company that actually owns the rights to those goods.
Kenrailae Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships. 43	Posted - 2013.11.05 21:20:00 - [542] - Quote Baali Tekitsu wrote: Just because you think that there is no reason to be upset about CCPs behaviour doesnt mean that others should think the same. If you dont want to protest well then dont post in a protest thread. Did you also think the world was going to end on December 21st, 2012? Stop making a mountain out of a molehill which has already been stepped on. You're crying about 'Somer is so bad' but they only set up a way to cover their server costs. Players are the ones who bought way in excess and may or may not have created more 'off the top' cashflow than the servers cost. Somer isn't the evil here. CCP isn't the evil here. There was a perfect storm of scenarios, which allowed for a potentiality. I could say the same of many other things. CCP isn't your business. You don't get to decide how they run it. And your 'protest' is pointless, since it has already been addressed.
Frying Doom 3236	Posted - 2013.11.05 21:38:00 - [543] - Quote Kenrailae wrote: Baali Tekitsu wrote: Just because you think that there is no reason to be upset about CCPs behaviour doesnt mean that others should think the same. If you dont want to protest well then dont post in a protest thread. Did you also think the world was going to end on December 21st, 2012? Stop making a mountain out of a molehill which has already been stepped on. You're crying about 'Somer is so bad' but they only set up a way to cover their server costs. Players are the ones who bought way in excess and may or may not have created more 'off the top' cashflow than the servers cost. Somer isn't the evil here. CCP isn't the evil here. There was a perfect storm of scenarios, which allowed for a potentiality. I could say the same of many other things. CCP isn't your business. You don't get to decide how they run it. And your 'protest' is pointless, since it has already been addressed. So CCP has enforced its EULA? As to may or may not have created more 'off the top' cashflow than the servers cost. The servers could not possibly even be $5000 a year given the tiny number of users it receives. Hell they would be unlikely to cost $3000 a year. As to CCP not being our business and protests are pointless. Please tell that to BP, Exon, All the Tobacco companies and hell even McDonalds. And as you believe our protesting is pointless, what does that make your protesting about protesting? So if you feel like protesting about protesting, maybe you should contact the CSM, if you can find them.
Baali Tekitsu B0SSAURA xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx 319	Posted - 2013.11.05 21:51:00 - [544] - Quote Kenrailae wrote: Did you also think the world was going to end on December 21st, 2012? Oh some unrelated to the topic and unbacked allegations, how cute, makes your bs sound more convincing eh? Kenrailae wrote: Stop making a mountain out of a molehill which has already been stepped on. You're crying about 'Somer is so bad' but they only set up a way to cover their server costs. Players are the ones who bought way in excess and may or may not have created more 'off the top' cashflow than the servers cost. This has been proven so wrong so often that I wont even bother thinking about a new way to answer this Kenrailae wrote: CCP isn't your business. You don't get to decide how they run it. And your 'protest' is pointless, since it has already been addressed. And you assume youre in the position to tell me whats my business and what isnt? You must be incredibly full of yourself. I dont consider the question to be "adressed" as long as nobody bothers to speak up to the community.
Daquaris The Loathsome Lions 57	Posted - 2013.11.05 22:47:00 - [545] - Quote Baali Tekitsu wrote: Kenrailae wrote: Did you also think the world was going to end on December 21st, 2012? Oh some unrelated to the topic and unbacked allegations, how cute, makes your bs sound more convincing eh? Kenrailae wrote: Stop making a mountain out of a molehill which has already been stepped on. You're crying about 'Somer is so bad' but they only set up a way to cover their server costs. Players are the ones who bought way in excess and may or may not have created more 'off the top' cashflow than the servers cost. This has been proven so wrong so often that I wont even bother thinking about a new way to answer this Kenrailae wrote: CCP isn't your business. You don't get to decide how they run it. And your 'protest' is pointless, since it has already been addressed. And you assume youre in the position to tell me whats my business and what isnt? You must be incredibly full of yourself. I dont consider the question to be "adressed" as long as nobody bothers to speak up to the community. At this point, it's BARELY acknowledged - let alone addressed.
Kenrailae Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships. 43	Posted - 2013.11.05 23:08:00 - [546] - Quote Baali Tekitsu wrote: And you assume youre in the position to tell me whats my business and what isnt? You must be incredibly full of yourself. I dont consider the question to be "adressed" as long as nobody bothers to speak up to the community. Nah mate, Just trying to help you out. Reduce your stress level, help you live a long, full life. Crying over space pixels isn't the way bro. All in all, you're the party here who has to make yourself listened to, Acknowledged. CCP has taken action. Somer has given every indication of complying. There is nothing else to it. Action is being taken, and will be complied with. What are you trying to achieve? Have fun Bro, Good luck with reducing that stress level!
Baali Tekitsu B0SSAURA xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx 322	Posted - 2013.11.06 00:12:00 - [547] - Quote Kenrailae wrote: Baali Tekitsu wrote: And you assume youre in the position to tell me whats my business and what isnt? You must be incredibly full of yourself. I dont consider the question to be "adressed" as long as nobody bothers to speak up to the community. Nah mate, Just trying to help you out. Reduce your stress level, help you live a long, full life. Crying over space pixels isn't the way bro. All in all, you're the party here who has to make yourself listened to, Acknowledged. CCP has taken action. Somer has given every indication of complying. There is nothing else to it. Action is being taken, and will be complied with. What are you trying to achieve? Have fun Bro, Good luck with reducing that stress level! Yea sure because I just had the impression youre trying to tell me what to do and were quite rude and stuff, usually people react like that wen theyre sort of not so relaxed. Good to know that you were just trolling, buddy. http://i.imgur.com/XvQZ44B.jpg
Kenrailae Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships. 44	Posted - 2013.11.06 01:29:00 - [548] - Quote Baali Tekitsu wrote: Yea sure because I just had the impression youre trying to tell me what to do and were quite rude and stuff, usually people react like that wen theyre sort of not so relaxed. Good to know that you were just trolling, buddy. http://i.imgur.com/XvQZ44B.jpg I don't need to 'damage control' you dude. I've already said what needed to be said :) Your constant attacking of Somer and CCP is pretty rude and stuff too. What do you want them to do? They've said stop, and somer are stopping. What do you expect? What compensation are you expecting?
Baali Tekitsu B0SSAURA xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx 322	Posted - 2013.11.06 01:34:00 - [549] - Quote Maybe a dev post or something? Cant be that hard to write here, you need a PC, a keyboard, screen and a thought, you dont even need a mouse. They had plenty of time to think about an appropriate answer.
Kenrailae Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships. 44	Posted - 2013.11.06 01:37:00 - [550] - Quote Baali Tekitsu wrote: Maybe a dev post or something? Cant be that hard to write here, you need a PC, a keyboard, screen and a thought, you dont even need a mouse. They had plenty of time to think about an appropriate answer. They answered already. 'Affiliates, Stop.' What are you wanting? They gave them a deadline in which to comply. They will be complying. Are you expecting chat logs of CCP coming over to Somer's channel and smacking Somer on the wrist for affiliating with GTC sales until the deadline stops? I mean.... I don't get what this thread is trying to accomplish. Action has been taken, and by every indication, will be complied with... This is like complaining that SMA's aren't fixed NOW when they will be soon as the (Next expansion?) drops.

Baali Tekitsu B0SSAURA xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx 322	Posted - 2013.11.06 01:44:00 - [551] - Quote For instance why this has been overlooked in CCP by everyone for such a long time. Or why people are getting banned for posting **** in fleet chat but SOMER are getting a 10 days shut down period even though theyre the most blatant case of RMT in EvE history. This is completely out of proportion.
Frying Doom 3241	Posted - 2013.11.06 01:58:00 - [552] - Quote Kenrailae wrote: Baali Tekitsu wrote: Yea sure because I just had the impression youre trying to tell me what to do and were quite rude and stuff, usually people react like that wen theyre sort of not so relaxed. Good to know that you were just trolling, buddy. http://i.imgur.com/XvQZ44B.jpg I don't need to 'damage control' you dude. I've already said what needed to be said :) Your constant attacking of Somer and CCP is pretty rude and stuff too. What do you want them to do? They've said stop, and somer are stopping. What do you expect? What compensation are you expecting? Somer is only stopping because it has too. It has shown very well by trying to squeeze every last penny out of the EvE community that it is a business and not a community site. Somer is in breach of the EULA and CCP just needs to enforce its EULA like it has hundreds of times before hand.
Kenrailae Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships. 44	Posted - 2013.11.06 02:02:00 - [553] - Quote Baali Tekitsu wrote: For instance why this has been overlooked in CCP by everyone for such a long time. Or why people are getting banned for posting **** in fleet chat but SOMER are getting a 10 days shut down period even though theyre the most blatant case of RMT in EvE history. This is completely out of proportion. To my knowledge, which may be incomplete, Somer is a unique case, in that there has not, to date, been a situation like it in Eve. There have always been peeps sponsoring GTC sellers(or vice versa as the case may be) on their sites as long as I've played Eve, which admittedly is only ~4 years. But I've never seen or heard of one quite so large, successful, or well developed as Somer. It may have just been a case where CCP wasn't sure how/where/why to act with it. They tried to acknowledge the work Somer has done with a few ships(what the ships are really isn't important as they were not money or isk) and also tried to gift the community a few things(guardian-vexors)through the service Somer provided. Again, not money or isk. But peeps went crazy over it. I really don't think(I have no screenshots or chatlogs for proof) that it was a malicious 'Screw You!' to the community. I'm more in the party that thinks it was an honest attempt to do something cool and fun. Somer seems to be just a unique case in how large it has actually gotten. People have benefited, but my interactions with the Somer staff have never given me the impression it was all a 'Gonna take these peeps for all they got' scam. I've had some really good luck and really bad luck on Somer. At no point have I ever gotten the impression it was a get rich scheme. It just kinda turned into a profitable enterprise. I mean, what are you wanting them to do then? If their initial agreement with MD was $x off each GTC through their site to cover servers/etc, and initial sales were 200 GTC's a month to cover server costs, and in the interim they've ballooned to over 5000 GTC's a month(speaking theoretically).... What are they supposed to do? Give the money back? Comparing that to an established protocol like posting in chats isn't really the same ball park. Now if you wanted to compare it to GM application of the 'rules', their own statements, and their reviewal of the 'logs' policy.... well... then you're starting to get into the same ball park. Or compare it to Mad Ani's stream, and it's $5 dollar subscribe fee. Sure, at the front it makes sense. Mad Ani gets a bit for his time and equipment, Twitch for theirs, but what happens when Mad-Ani gets 6000 subs? It's kinda the same problem as the Titan escalation problem. Started small, thinking 'Meh, won't ever get too big' but then Eve makes it HUGE. To claim it was all a scheme to take everyone for what for..... that's kinda extreme.
Baali Tekitsu B0SSAURA xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx 324	Posted - 2013.11.06 02:08:00 - [554] - Quote These are all valid arguments, but why doesnt CCP communicate with us?
Frying Doom 3241	Posted - 2013.11.06 02:14:00 - [555] - Quote Kenrailae wrote: I don't get how you're blaming Somer for the actions the player base is taking. I would presume it is like blaming a drug dealer because people use drugs. Drugs are against the rules(laws) the penalty for being a drug dealer in most places is worse than being a drug user. Why do you suppose that is? Long story short, CCP need to enforce their own EULA, not half measures, not more special treatment for Somer. Just enforce it.
Kenrailae Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships. 44	Posted - 2013.11.06 02:22:00 - [556] - Quote Frying Doom wrote: Kenrailae wrote: I don't get how you're blaming Somer for the actions the player base is taking. I would presume it is like blaming a drug dealer because people use drugs. Drugs are against the rules(laws) the penalty for being a drug dealer in most places is worse than being a drug user. Why do you suppose that is? Long story short, CCP need to enforce their own EULA, not half measures, not more special treatment for Somer. Just enforce it. This compares more to posting stuff in fleet chat. The GTC sellers/affiliates is another of those grey areas where things aren't precisely defined/enforced as to if A is B or C, or if A and B are both actually D, which is dependent on E and F. Like a liquor store. Liquor is Legal, as is/has been GTC/Affiliate sponsoring. Do you blame the Liquor store who sold the alcohol, or the person who bought it, or the wholesaler who sold it to the liquor store? There may/not be specifics mentioned in the EULA about GTC reselling/etc, but AFAIK, to date, they've been loosely defined/enforced. Is that the fault of the Liquor store, alcohol laws, or consumer? Now they are being enforced. Wait a couple days and Somer will no longer be 'profiting' from GTC sales.
Frying Doom 3241	Posted - 2013.11.06 02:29:00 - [557] - Quote [quote=Kenrailae]Actually while there is a relationship between CCP and the re-seller, there is no relationship between CCP and the affiliate. Well there should not be. Affiliates should not have Skype access to CCP Devs. The resellers had been given 10 days to stop their affiliates or lose their ability to be a CCP reseller. The fault here lies in believing CCP condoned further breaches of the EULA. It did not, it just told its resellers to shut down the offending sites within 10 days. It has nothing to do with anyone acting with the EULA. Somer has breached the EULA in multiple ways and CCP needs to do what it has always done and stop showing favoritism.
Kenrailae Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships. 44	Posted - 2013.11.06 02:38:00 - [558] - Quote Frying Doom wrote: Actually while there is a relationship between CCP and the re-seller, there is no relationship between CCP and the affiliate. Well there should not be. Affiliates should not have Skype access to CCP Devs. The resellers had been given 10 days to stop their affiliates or lose their ability to be a CCP reseller. The fault here lies in believing CCP condoned further breaches of the EULA. It did not, it just told its resellers to shut down the offending sites within 10 days. It has nothing to do with anyone acting with the EULA. Somer has breached the EULA in multiple ways and CCP needs to do what it has always done and stop showing favoritism. That's where you're wrong. There is a relationship between CCP and every organization and player in Eve, and every app/program designed around Eve, as all of it is built around a game CCP owns/designs. CCP is usually pretty cool in it's relationships with everyone, allowing tons of out of game opportunity for player created content. It's kinda what sets Eve apart from the vast majority of other games. And they are reigning in one of those relationships. Quote: it just told its resellers to shut down the offending sites within 10 days. It has nothing to do with anyone acting with the EULA. As this probably affected more than Just Somer, the 10 day time frame isn't unreasonable at all. Peeps just need to relax. 2 days and they'll be enforcing the policy. /thread.
Frying Doom 3241	Posted - 2013.11.06 02:43:00 - [559] - Quote But you think they should just ignore the EULA though. Oh and you missed a bit 'There is a relationship between CCP and every organization and player in Eve' and it is controlled by the EULA.
TheGunslinger42 All Web Investigations 2601	Posted - 2013.11.06 10:22:00 - [560] - Quote In during alts and shills defending Really Mean Tactics employed by somer

AndromacheDarkstar Amarrian Corsairs 824	Posted - 2013.11.06 11:52:00 - [561] - Quote Why are you all so butthurt. What possible damage did this do to the community. I buy plex and you know what it was really nice to get some extra free credit with my PLEX. It did no harm to anyone else it simply made mine and somers pockets a bit fatter. You all need to step back, realise this is a game and that it wasnt doing nay harm to anyone at all.
TheGunslinger42 All Web Investigations 2603	Posted - 2013.11.06 13:10:00 - [562] - Quote AndromacheDarkstar wrote: Why are you all so butthurt. What possible damage did this do to the community. I buy plex and you know what it was really nice to get some extra free credit with my PLEX. It did no harm to anyone else it simply made mine and somers pockets a bit fatter. You all need to step back, realise this is a game and that it wasnt doing nay harm to anyone at all. Using eve accounts in order to conduct irl businesses is against the EULA RMT is against the EULA CCP directly spawning in-game entities hundreds of billions of assets means legitimate in game entities cannot compete etc etc fly away, someralt
Telegram Sam Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 1086	Posted - 2013.11.06 15:44:00 - [563] - Quote In Fall 2012, long before all of controversy, when Somer was just one of several EVE lottos.... I asked Somer to donate prizes for an EVE writing contest. I wanted about 2-3bil isk total, and wanted Somer to donate maybe 800mil. They gave me 10bil. No conditions attached, no request that I advertise them as sponsors, no request that I put their link on the contest site. No conditions at all, they just liked the idea of the contest. So they made a donation to the writers 10 times bigger than what I was asking for. Just saying, for the record.
Eram Fidard Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 447	Posted - 2013.11.06 16:28:00 - [564] - Quote TheGunslinger42 wrote: AndromacheDarkstar wrote: Why are you all so butthurt. What possible damage did this do to the community. I buy plex and you know what it was really nice to get some extra free credit with my PLEX. It did no harm to anyone else it simply made mine and somers pockets a bit fatter. You all need to step back, realise this is a game and that it wasnt doing nay harm to anyone at all. Using eve accounts in order to conduct irl businesses is against the EULA RMT is against the EULA CCP directly spawning in-game entities hundreds of billions of assets means legitimate in game entities cannot compete etc etc fly away, someralt This, a thousand times this. For every person saying "calm down", THIS For every person saying "oh look at _____ somer 'did for community'", THIS For every person saying "CCP never said anything about it before", THIS For every person saying "They never did any harm", THIS Why the **** would I choose to play a game where the rules change willy-nilly on the whims of a select few, and are applied unequally/unfairly in this kind of situation? Why would anyone? It's akin to sitting down to a hand of poker, betting, showing your hand(s), then having the other party say "oh, btw jacks, deuces, aces, sevens, and nines are wild, sooo.... FIVE OF A KIND!" I'm standing up and walking away from the table. You can stay and endure abuse all you like.
Sexy Cakes Have A Seat 492	Posted - 2013.11.06 16:48:00 - [565] - Quote Let it go Lou. CCP is greedy as hell and this isn't the first instance of it. Let your wallet do the talking and shatup.
Frying Doom 3250	Posted - 2013.11.06 20:39:00 - [566] - Quote TheGunslinger42 wrote: AndromacheDarkstar wrote: Why are you all so butthurt. What possible damage did this do to the community. I buy plex and you know what it was really nice to get some extra free credit with my PLEX. It did no harm to anyone else it simply made mine and somers pockets a bit fatter. You all need to step back, realise this is a game and that it wasnt doing nay harm to anyone at all. Using eve accounts in order to conduct irl businesses is against the EULA RMT is against the EULA CCP directly spawning in-game entities hundreds of billions of assets means legitimate in game entities cannot compete etc etc fly away, someralt Not to mention that free credit cut the legs out from any actual community site, that was using GTC to fund their servers while they were actually delivering a service to the community.
Argus Sorn Star Frontiers Dirt Nap Squad. 579	Posted - 2013.11.07 04:06:00 - [567] - Quote Telegram Sam wrote: In Fall 2012, long before all of the controversy, when Somer was just one of several EVE lottos.... I asked Somer to donate prizes for an EVE writing contest. I wanted about 2-3bil isk total, and wanted Somer to donate maybe 800mil. They gave me 10bil. No conditions attached, no request that I advertise them as sponsors, no request that I put their link on the contest site. No conditions at all, they just liked the idea of the contest. So they made a donation to the writers 10 times bigger than what I was asking for. Just saying, for the record. You don't really get it. But that is okay. It is good you got money for your contest. It is the real motives behind the giving (on Somer's part) that are in question here. For those of us who think they are just trying to cover their behinds so they can get away with RMT while looking all spiffy - it's called influence peddling. SOMER's giving is well documented (as they want it to be, for just this sort of incident) but it actually, in the end has nothing to do with the current issues. All we can do is await CCP's response. The questions they have before them: - Do they take punitive action against SOMER blink? If so, to what extent? - How do they prevent their employees from making foolish conflict of interest decisions in the future? (This isperhaps the most important question to be fair.) - How do they, moving forward, insulate EVE from the destructive influence of third parties who are looking to monetize/make a business out of the game the game. As for SOMER, if they are not banned, you should have no fears. If they were able to pull in roughly $50k a year by offering 200m isk bonuses, they should not have any problems paying for their server costs. All they need to do, honestly, is cry to those who believe in them, or who are addicted to them, that they are desperately in need of cash, and they will sell plenty of GTC's without a bonus. I would not be surprised if they are able to still manage at least $25k a year. Will that being running a "business"? At what point does running an in game corp to promote GTC referrals constitute a business? That is for CCP to decide I guess. What I suggest to your SOMER supporters, is to demand transparency from them before you 'donate' to their server costs. It'd be interesting to know how much they made since they upped their ante on the GTC sales.
Frying Doom 3251	Posted - 2013.11.07 04:39:00 - [568] - Quote Welcome to the last day. It is now the 7th of November. Just under 20 hours remain before Somer must stop. This of course leads to the question. Will CCP actually enforce its EULA?
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 5102	Posted - 2013.11.07 04:55:00 - [569] - Quote Frying Doom wrote: Welcome to the last day. It is now the 7th of November. Just under 20 hours remain before Somer must stop. This of course leads to the question. Will CCP actually enforce its EULA? why, you think they'll forget or something?
Frying Doom 3251	Posted - 2013.11.07 04:57:00 - [570] - Quote Alavaria Fera wrote: Frying Doom wrote: Welcome to the last day. It is now the 7th of November. Just under 20 hours remain before Somer must stop. This of course leads to the question. Will CCP actually enforce its EULA? why, you think they'll forget or something? You think they wont?



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