Large areas, thousands of km across, where fleets can hide

where fleets can hide, or even get lost in.
. . .
I always imagined some kind of area like we saw in the Wrath of Khan, would be a very interesting to spend a few hours, or longer, in.

You guys reacted only to the hiding aspect. I sorta like the getting lost part. Some FC leading his pos bashing fleet or whatever into an ion storm to hide, only to find he's lost and trapped, unable to lock on anything outside to warp to. The amount of "impolite verbal abuse" on comms when game time is wasted and the objective lost would be gold to record.

Given that CCP has now demonstrated that they have the coding capability to create zones of non-scanability, how about creating stuff like static nebula's and gas clouds that negate the ability to scan in OR out. Where there is a perpetual warp disruption field in place.

Large areas, thousands of km across, where fleets can hide, or even get lost in.
Put items/sites of value in in them though, where people REALLY have to explore, where you operate by your wits, overview and luck.

Some place that while it is easy to hide in, be it someone with evil or benign intentions, but also makes it very difficult to hunt someone down in the cloud.

I always imagined some kind of area like we saw in the Wrath of Khan, would be a very interesting to spend a few hours, or longer, in.

Given that CCP has now demonstrated that they have the coding capability to create zones of non-scanability, how about creating stuff like static nebula's and gas clouds that negate the ability to scan in OR out. Where there is a perpetual warp disruption field in place.

Large areas, thousands of km across, where fleets can hide, or even get lost in.
Put items/sites of value in in them though, where people REALLY have to explore, where you operate by your wits, overview and luck.

Some place that while it is easy to hide in, be it someone with evil or benign intentions, but also makes it very difficult to hunt someone down in the cloud.

I always imagined some kind of area like we saw in the Wrath of Khan, would be a very interesting to spend a few hours, or longer, in.

Given that CCP ...

+1 Dinsdale has gone up in my book. Great idea. +1 again. +1... another +1. Alright that's all you get.

Srs man, flesh this idea out, use this as a guideline and let's make this happen.

I like the idea, but I have some questions and thoughts.

I love that you cannot warp out of it. If there is lucrative content, people will try to farm it. Being unable to warp out inhibits that. I would also suggest that you could not cloak inside it.

It should not be a static location. Or should it? If it does, it should not have a predictable refresh/respawn. Perhaps CCP could use this to replace some of the random installations and complexes that are currently spread around space?

It could have WH effects in certain grids. Gas clouds, asteroid belts, damage clouds.

I like the idea, but I have some questions and thoughts.

I love that you cannot warp out of it. If there is lucrative content, people will try to farm it. Being unable to warp out inhibits that. I would also suggest that you could not cloak inside it.

Content should be varied and random. I'm envisioning an area very large where there could be: data cans, relic cans, gas clouds, ice fields, pirate installations, ghost site areas... Initial exploration might be an interceptor flying through it to find a lucrative mining field, then leading a fleet of hulks back inside. Or perhaps a T3 with a range of mods and a mobile depot. The point being, it would be unpredictable and random. It would require real effort.

It should not be a static location. Or should it? If it does, it should not have a predictable refresh/respawn. Perhaps CCP could use this to replace some of the random installations and complexes that are currently spread around space?

It could have WH effects in certain grids. Gas clouds, asteroid belts, damage clouds. It could even sometimes have a WH entrance inside of it.

The possibilities are almost endless.

Wow. What happened to Dinsdale?

You guys reacted only to the hiding aspect. I sorta like the getting lost part. Some FC leading his pos bashing fleet or whatever into an ion storm to hide, only to find he's lost and trapped, unable to lock on anything outside to warp to. The amount of "impolite verbal abuse" on comms when game time is wasted and the objective lost would be gold to record.

indeed, i am thinking of fleets that can build up in WH's with free cloaks on all their ships. like:

Inty warps into nebula and then MWD's to just within the boundary. Fleet warps to inty and then slowboats into the nebula where it cannot be scanned or probed. The anomaly spans several grids, so u have no chance of finding the fleet even if u knew it was there. Then when the fleet is ready, it can slow boat it back out the nebula and is free to warp away.

if the nebula sucks u in if u try to warp nearby it would alleviate this problem at least. and making the warp in point change location within the nebula at intervals might mix things up.

Sure, why not? A Gas cloud can be a fluid thing, made up of electromagnetic swirls and eddies. So why would a bookmark be expected to be static. Or perhaps the bookmark is a static location, and the gas cloud ebbs and flows around it. Suddenly a bookmark 2 km off the edge is 50 km inside 4 hours later. I don't know if CCP can code boundaries like that, but who knows?

A way to make different entrances would be to make them sort of like districts on a planet. This would most likely be the easiest way of opening different ways to enter the "null void" instead of just a single entrance.

OK, using Malcanis' template, I have sent him am email with my rough concept.

It was too long to fit in one post, and was terrified of losing it with a dodgy draft system, or by splitting it in 2.

This.



Is a god damb

Amazing

Idea.

I really doubt that it could move, as we don't even have planets and moons that move. Locations inside a system are basically static at this point, and so are bookmarks. A way to make different entrances would be to make them sort of like districts on a planet. This would most likely be the easiest way of opening different ways to enter the "null void" instead of just a single entrance.

From what I've noticed, the EVE engine doesn't do much besides have things be drawn in static location, so I don't think there is a lot of room for dynamic moving content really anywhere in space till the engine is fixed to support it. Changing a bookmark location server side constantly would be the only way I see to fake it.

a trail of can crumbs.

Did i just witness CSM Malcanis liking or even agreeing to an Idea of Dinsdale Pirannha?

Put them in high-sec, and don't let Concorde in. Then, let WH open up inside of them.

Yummy conflict.

I would expect Concorde could chase a criminal from normal space into a cloud, but I think Concorde should be blind to any conflict that is happening inside one.

So while inside, if I shoot someone, I still acquire all flags normally, but Concorde will not respond unless I am dumb enough to leave the cloud. I would need to remain inside until my flag dropped.

Perhaps.
This is just a concept.
Who knows how it would finally work, and what coding issues CCP would come up against.

The one question I guess is if Concorde chases someone inside, is Concorde subject to the same sensor blindness, or are they still omniscient?

Actually, I figure something like that is a given.
I did not put it in the original concept, but I would suggest that these zones when they spawn, have equal value in goodies, no matter where they spawn, be it wh's, high sec, low, or null.

BUT..... each area would be treated with the same security status as deep null or wh's, meaning no Concord, no Customs, nothing.

I am a high sec guy, and like the protection, such as it is, of high sec.
But to see this big ominous cloud suddenly pop up in a 0.8 system, with bright neon letters say "Here be Dragons...oh yeah, and big time loot", would be pretty alluring.

And no, gankers could NOT rush into one of these clouds to avoid Concord. That would be treated the same was as it is if they duck into a wormhole, which is harshly.

Basically, wormholes and these areas would have a lot in common. There is the opportunity for great wealth, but you have to work hard for it, and there are risks, big risks.

Did i just witness CSM Malcanis liking or even agreeing to an Idea of Dinsdale Pirannha?

But yeah, I like that Idea, could be quite cool.

OK, using Malcanis' template, I have sent him am email with my rough concept.

It was too long to fit in one post, and was terrified of losing it with a dodgy draft system, or by splitting it in 2.
He can do with it as he sees fit.

Bottom line, the idea is , for a real world analogy, you are a warrior/hunter/explorer heading into a great forest at the beginning of the 20th century. You have some decent weapons, but no GPS, no satellite phones, and no infrared gear. You will have explore/hunt with good navigational skills and smarts.

Who knows what you may find in the forest. Perhaps great riches. Perhaps someone who has already found great riches, and are looking for an way out, without an armed escort. Perhaps a group that does not take kindly to be being found.

By limiting some of the basic game mechanics we use today, you can create a new meta around these zones, be it PvE or PvP.
A far larger and complex mini-game than the exploration sites CCP introduced in the last 2 releases, but a still a "game within the game of Eve".

Perhaps.
This is just a concept.
Who knows how it would finally work, and what coding issues CCP would come up against.

The one question I guess is if Concorde chases someone inside, is Concorde subject to the same sensor blindness, or are they still omniscient?

I think ships would need to be able to warp to fleet member inside the cloud (since they could provide absolute x/y/z plane co-ords relative to the fleet member) or use an mjd deployable (this has no warp co-ords, just throws you a specified distance like a mini-acceleration gate. All other warp actions would not work as the ship sensors cannot get a fix on anything to calculate warp co-ords.

This would be necessary for mining belts in the cloud since if the cloud is 5000Km diameter and a belt is at the centre? A mining barge would take forever to get there at ~100m/s, and then would have to crawl back out again.

A fleet ship would need to be stationed (or get to) the cloud edge to guide the rest of the fleet out. This would lead to a specialist Pathfinder role developing within fleets.

Similarly 'Save Location' would still work on any mjd deployables you stumble across as your ship navcom would record relative x/y/z co-ords inside the region. Could be fun having people jumping around into the unknown...

could i suggest that like the environment in recon part 3, some areas of this "briar patch" causes damage by virtue of you being there, death being the result should you go afk and allow your pod to die too.

Horry sheet a dinsdale post that isn't filled with both paranoia and whine. I love it.

Synergizes well with the new mobile MJD structures as well, don't you think?

I have no idea what content should be there, or even what should be allowed to be there, regarding risk/reward/balance etc, but it could be very cool.

+1

Excellent idea; +1. I don't think cloaking should totally not work, though. Maybe expand the decloak radius from 2500m to 25km or something? No cloaks at all would mean certain ships couldn't really be used in conjunction with the feature at all, and would be too limiting.

I like the idea of clutter around the area, that would make *everyone* much more careful about how they approach the area and is an already existing mechanic, no coding required.

But probably the devs handlign server performance might not like it.

The general concept it good. PRoblem is how ccp can implement it without costign too much to be worth doing.

Lets not spoil visions of awesome and win with petty concerns about performance.

Where there's a will, there's a way.

Lets not spoil visions of awesome and win with petty concerns about performance.

Where there's a will, there's a way.

...Dinsdale Phenomenon cloud.

But probably the devs handlign server performance might not like it.

The general concept it good. PRoblem is how ccp can implement it without costign too much to be worth doing.

...snip...

The idea of being able to warp to fleet mates inside would break this I think (some miner guy suggested it).

Ever watched the Odyssee trailer and thought: looks awesome, but doesnt look like Eve?
Here is your answer.
This is exactly what Odyssee should have been.
Although there should be a way to get Caps in, other then slowboating. Maybe capturable cyno beacons. To support operations in the null zone with approquiate ships, imagine a Rorqual using its other bonuses outside of a forcefield. Or blasting Pirate Fortresses, wich are equipped to actually are a threat to Dreadnoughts.
With this in mind, think of capital prop-mods.

Cloaks should still work, but an 'unknown' response should flicker in and out of the overview when in the same grid.. Imagine the paranoia that would induce :]

We were discussing this idea in corp and one of the guys pointed out that the Eve gate area already implements many of the mechanics discussed here. Could be a good starting point, and in lore terms the warp storms around the gate could be spreading...

I really doubt that it could move, as we don't even have planets and moons that move. Locations inside a system are basically static at this point, and so are bookmarks. A way to make different entrances would be to make them sort of like districts on a planet. This would most likely be the easiest way of opening different ways to enter the "null void" instead of just a single entrance.

From what I've noticed, the EVE engine doesn't do much besides have things be drawn in static location, so I don't think there is a lot of room for dynamic moving content really anywhere in space till the engine is fixed to support it. Changing a bookmark location server side constantly would be the only way I see to fake it.

I think my favourite aspect of this idea is that it's not the structures, environment, rewards, rats or whatever else is already in missions/explo that will make this great. It's the player interactions that will come from it, do you co-operate? Just shoot the opposition? Wait cloaked for them to pop the can and then steal some loot as it flies out? Go hunt other players? Go hunt other players who are hunting other players?...The possibilities are huge.

There will be a subset of players (think RvB on steroids), who will enter these areas just for the thrill of the hunt and combat. That group needs no ISK incentive, but they are a small subset I would believe. There are also PvP groups that will incorporate zones like this into their existing tactics. (hiding a supercap fleet from prying eyes, deep in hostile territory, has its advantages). They also need no fiscal incentive.

But to get the larger percentage of PvP'ers involved in this, you first have to attract a critical mass of bodies into the zones. That means PvE rewards, and they would have to be substantial to justify the effort, co-ordination, and time of exploring, plus the additional risk. Balancing that takes more wisdom than Solomon, and I don't think anyone can dare step into those waters until the parameters of the actual construct are nailed down, and how much "risk" is involved with such a zone.

Given that CCP has now demonstrated that they have the coding capability to create zones of non-scanability, how about creating stuff like static nebula's and gas clouds that negate the ability to scan in OR out. Where there is a perpetual warp disruption field in place.

Large areas, thousands of km across, where fleets can hide, or even get lost in.
Put items/sites of value in in them though, where people REALLY have to explore, where you operate by your wits, overview and luck.

Some place that while it is easy to hide in, be it someone with evil or benign intentions, but also makes it very difficult to hunt someone down in the cloud.

I always imagined some kind of area like we saw in the Wrath of Khan, would be a very interesting to spend a few hours, or longer, in.

Edit: Expanded thoughts:

I don't really want to dive into specifics with this initial post, that is covered on page 3 of this thread.
I want to discuss general theme.

In my opinion, a whole lot of older players are looking for the "next horizon" within Eve.
They have done pretty much all that Eve has to offer, at least on a superficial level.
They are waiting for something new, hence the excitement about CCP opening up new territory with player jump gates.

But what if they can have that new experience within the confines of existing star systems?
What if they could experience a different type of Eve, where the game is played a little differently, where things are more claustrophobic, where things are a little more random, the risks higher, and the rewards also higher, where tried and true methods of PvE and PvP operation have to be altered, or thrown out the window?

On a different tack, Eve players are notorious for being way too smart for their own good. We quickly industrialize every PvE concept, or even PvP mechanism that CCP hands us. Does not matter if it is high sec incursions, or wormhole C6 combat sites, or FW plexes, or null sec sov moon goo.
The players will take a mechanism and will test and optimize the risk/return ratio.

But what if they faced a section of space where the rules are changed? Where things are so random, or so varied in possibilities that no group could optimize for any particular circumstance. Where industrialization of sites was impossible, where bad people could be anywhere? Where exploration and finding riches or prey was significantly more difficult than today, and the rewards matched?

This is the type of zone that I would like to see CCP create, and by removing some of the existing game mechanics as described later, where you are partially blinded, you don't know what you are facing. PvE sites and PvP situations can be so much closer together, since you can't see them, until you are virtually on top of them. Whole new meta's on how to play will be created.

The happiest time I had in Eve was when Apochrypha came out. My old crew, within Eve UNI, has our 1st POS up in wh space 5 hours after Apochrypha was released. We stayed for over a year, constantly upgrading our home, from a C3 to a C4 to a C5 with a C6 static. The sense of the unknown, the learning of new game mechanics, the heightened risk of no local, all made for a great experience.

I think something like what I am proposing could bring back that wonder and excitement level, and it would be oh so easy for all to access, as these zones could spawn anywhere. And if done properly, and if CCP jams enough variation of sites and potential combat situations into a zone, then it would be very difficult to optimize for anything. I am not talking about quantity of sites being in a zone. I am talking about variation of POTENTIAL sites. If one does not know what they will find any given day, the game becomes very interesting.

My view is that no ship larger than a cruiser should be able to fly in (gravitational forces putting too much stress on higher mass ships or something). This would mean a site could not be camped with a fleet of supercaps and then farmed. It would keep combat and exploration fast and fluid. It would also mitigate somewhat ag+áinst local since it could still be worth your time to inve-ºtigate given that ghose in the DDC will have exactly the same advantages and disadvantages.

I would be happy for ships to disappear from local upon entering the cloud though. Then anyone already in wouldn't know if the player left system or entered the cloud...more paranoia in this case can only be a good thing...

My view is that no ship larger than a cruiser should be able to fly in (gravitational forces putting too much stress on higher mass ships or something). ..

- maybe pods could warp to a celestial outside of the cloud after you lost your ship but not back in

Given that CCP has now demonstrated that they have the coding capability to create zones of non-scanability, how about creating stuff like static nebula's and gas clouds that negate the ability to scan in OR out. Where there is a perpetual warp disruption field in place.

Large areas, thousands of km across, where fleets can hide, or even get lost in.
Put items/sites of value in in them though, where people REALLY have to explore, where you operate by your wits, overview and luck.

Some place that while it is easy to hide in, be it someone with evil or benign intentions, but also makes it very difficult to hunt someone down in the cloud.

I always imagined some kind of area like we saw in the Wrath of Khan, would be a very interesting to spend a few hours, or longer, in.

Edit: Expanded thoughts:

I don't really want to dive into specifics with this initial post, that is covered on page 3 of this thread.
I want to discuss general theme.

In my opinion, a whole lot of older players are looking for the "next horizon" within Eve.
They have done pretty much all that Eve has to offer, at least on a superficial level.
They are waiting for something new, hence the excitement about CCP opening up new territory with player jump gates.

But what if they can have that new experience within the confines of existing star systems?
What if they could experience a different type of Eve, where the game is played a little differently, where things are more claustrophobic, where things are a little more random, the risks higher, and the rewards also higher, where tried and true methods of PvE and PvP operation have to be altered, or thrown out the window?

On a different tack, Eve players are notorious for being way too smart for their own good. We quickly industrialize every PvE concept, or even PvP mechanism that CCP hands us. Does not matter if it is high sec incursions, or wormhole C6 combat sites, or FW plexes, or null sec sov moon goo.
The players will take a mechanism and will test and optimize the risk/return ratio.

But what if they faced a section of space where the rules are changed? Where things are so random, or so varied in possibilities that no group could optimize for any particular circumstance. Where industrialization of sites was impossible, where bad people could be anywhere? Where exploration and finding riches or prey was significantly more difficult than today, and the rewards matched?

This is the type of zone that I would like to see CCP create, and by removing some of the existing game mechanics as described later, where you are partially blinded, you don't know what you are facing. PvE sites and PvP situations can be so much closer together, since you can't see them, until you are virtually on top of them. Whole new meta's on how to play will be created.

The happiest time I had in Eve was when Apochrypha came out. My old crew, within Eve UNI, has our 1st POS up in wh space 5 hours after Apochrypha was released. We stayed for over a year, constantly upgrading our home, from a C3 to a C4 to a C5 with a C6 static. The sense of the unknown, the learning of new game mechanics, the heightened risk of no local, all made for a great experience.

I think something like what I am proposing could bring back that wonder and excitement level, and it would be oh so easy for all to access, as these zones could spawn anywhere. And if done properly, and if CCP jams enough variation of sites and potential combat situations into a zone, then it would be very difficult to optimize for anything. I am not talking about quantity of sites being in a zone. I am talking about variation of POTENTIAL sites. If one does not know what they will find any given day, the game becomes very interesting.

...all the while watching the overview for any flickering unknown responses showing you may be being shadowed/hunted by a cloaky ship nearby...

Also D-Scan should only work out to your targeting range as well.

Edit: Or just not work at all "Interference from the local area is preventing your scanner from working"

GORRAMIT DINSDALE!!!!


Why oh why did it have to be you to come up with the perfect most sublime new feature for EvE?

This literally is the best feature to merge PvE and PvP together.

+1 for this

Though I may champion high sec these days, and PvE, I don't think people realize that I spent over a year in wormholes, only coming out for resupply and to sell stuff we extracted/made inside, plus I spent quite some time fighting PL and the DRF in Pure Blind, and other null areas. I also have spent most of my online time the last couple days in low sec exploring.

So I am not completely out of tune with the non high sec game.

Anyway, I communicated with one of the CSM, and was told that this concept will be brought to CCP's attention, but no one should hold out any hope for any grand announcement on something like this anytime soon, or ever.
But the CSM member also told me that the more people who comment in this thread, the better.

So tell your friends to comment whether good or bad.
I don't care about any +1's or accolades, but I would like CCP to see that there is indeed a groundswell behind the concept.

+1 for CSM jumping on board and publicly voicing their support of a great idea.

Not sure if this was mentioned yet, but have certain modules not work in them, things like tractor beams, boosts, WEBS AND POINTS, and other projecting effects. Obviously different effects for different clouds, but some clouds should be so dense that the effect one ship has on another is limited to only physical objects (slugs, molten metal, missiles, and i guess lasers, but just because you kind of have to for balance).

[
Without an unknown random mass limit all bigger alliances/corps be it RvB, CFC, N3 etc etc. can just bring 50, 100, 200 players into this area and farm it without any trouble at all.

I think based on how people would like these to work that they would be quite unfarmable. Since you have no idea what could be inside them. Even if you did get 200 guys in there you still need to slowboat your way through looking for potential targets and if you make them huuuuge they would be forced to split up. Making them more vulnerable.

I like this idea a lot (wish I could +1 it endlessly), but:

how do you prevent that a cloaked alt outside of the sphere provides intel for those in it? Especially concerned about 0.0, where corpies might abuse their alts to farm those things with relative safety (someone shows up on local --> alt outside of the sphere reports it via Convo or Corp/shared Chat-channels).

A good idea is a good idea is a good idea. The thing I like about this one is that you risk what you are comfortable with and all dangers are unpredictable.

The word shall be spread!

It think if the regions are implemented correctly it will cut both ways, you know that a large fleet is inbound and can prepare...hit and run guerilla tactics would work very well here to whittle down or drive off a larger force and could change what you expected to be an exploration trip into frenzied purist combat...Meanwhile the large fleet that is confident in its numerical superiority could be in for a *very* nasty surprise...

Given that CCP has now demonstrated that they have the coding capability to create zones of non-scanability, how about creating stuff like static nebula's and gas clouds that negate the ability to scan in OR out. Where there is a perpetual warp disruption field in place.

Large areas, thousands of km across, where fleets can hide, or even get lost in.
Put items/sites of value in in them though, where people REALLY have to explore, where you operate by your wits, overview and luck.

Some place that while it is easy to hide in, be it someone with evil or benign intentions, but also makes it very difficult to hunt someone down in the cloud.

I always imagined some kind of area like we saw in the Wrath of Khan, would be a very interesting to spend a few hours, or longer, in.

Edit: Expanded thoughts:

I don't really want to dive into specifics with this initial post, that is covered on page 3 of this thread.
I want to discuss general theme.

In my opinion, a whole lot of older players are looking for the "next horizon" within Eve.
They have done pretty much all that Eve has to offer, at least on a superficial level.
They are waiting for something new, hence the excitement about CCP opening up new territory with player jump gates.

But what if they can have that new experience within the confines of existing star systems?
What if they could experience a different type of Eve, where the game is played a little differently, where things are more claustrophobic, where things are a little more random, the risks higher, and the rewards also higher, where tried and true methods of PvE and PvP operation have to be altered, or thrown out the window?

On a different tack, Eve players are notorious for being way too smart for their own good. We quickly industrialize every PvE concept, or even PvP mechanism that CCP hands us. Does not matter if it is high sec incursions, or wormhole C6 combat sites, or FW plexes, or null sec sov moon goo.
The players will take a mechanism and will test and optimize the risk/return ratio.

But what if they faced a section of space where the rules are changed? Where things are so random, or so varied in possibilities that no group could optimize for any particular circumstance. Where industrialization of sites was impossible, where bad people could be anywhere? Where exploration and finding riches or prey was significantly more difficult than today, and the rewards matched?

This is the type of zone that I would like to see CCP create, and by removing some of the existing game mechanics as described later, where you are partially blinded, you don't know what you are facing. PvE sites and PvP situations can be so much closer together, since you can't see them, until you are virtually on top of them. Whole new meta's on how to play will be created.

The happiest time I had in Eve was when Apochrypha came out. My old crew, within Eve UNI, has our 1st POS up in wh space 5 hours after Apochrypha was released. We stayed for over a year, constantly upgrading our home, from a C3 to a C4 to a C5 with a C6 static. The sense of the unknown, the learning of new game mechanics, the heightened risk of no local, all made for a great experience.

I think something like what I am proposing could bring back that wonder and excitement level, and it would be oh so easy for all to access, as these zones could spawn anywhere. And if done properly, and if CCP jams enough variation of sites and potential combat situations into a zone, then it would be very difficult to optimize for anything. I am not talking about quantity of sites being in a zone. I am talking about variation of POTENTIAL sites. If one does not know what they will find any given day, the game becomes very interesting.

a. To either have some kind of mechanism in place that limits the spoolup times of these units (adds complexity and might not even be possible code-wise)
b. Some mechanism in place that limits the range of the MJD's (same problem as above)
c. A new version of the MJD that only works in these clouds, which has a longer spoolup time, and/or significantly less range

Some problems that had to be solved:
- log out/in and the resulting emergency warp
- actually a way out without wasting hours of flying in one direction

Possible solutions:
- log out/in and the resulting emergency warp
After log out you emergency warp into normal space when you log in you won't warp back into the new area. There still has to be some sort of penalty so you can't use it as gtfo option. Especially if this new area will be in highsec too. Maybe a suspect timer can be added even if you weren't engaged in combat with NPCs or a player.

- actually a way out without wasting hours of flying in one direction
No really idea how to handle it without adding too many gtfo options. Maybe we need a new module here, very specialized like a self cyno (works only in this area, and only if you have no timer at all) which teleports you to a random spot in system but does not work with any player on grid and has a cooldown of 4h on your pod to be used again.

Let these types of anomalies be in HighSec too, but disable concord inside them. BOOM, the best training ground for newbie PvP...XD

That would be very good indeed. It would offer a slice of true EvE to newbie players, provide a mentality change to HighSec PvE and PvP, boost new account retention and generate user driven content in the same amounts as Apocrypha did.

Also, the idea is meshing remarkably well with the player used mobile structures Rubicon brought us.

Hell, I cannot think of a drawback to this idea, we need this! This is what ******* Odyssey should have been! Your idea is even shown in the damn splash image...XD
http://www.mmogames.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/sandbox-mmo-games-eve-online-odyssey-expansion-background-1.jpg

"Training ground for newbies in hi sec", potentially a pretty brutal training ground.
Maybe have static ones in the starter systems that are milder, maybe a simple mechanic of no locking ships and no bombs. Correctly if im wrong but that would make it safe from pvp while still keeping it a learning ground of the cloud mechanics. Then outside of starter systems, the clouds would be the normal lost lawless space.

The DDC should apperar in any level system I think, the starter system events would have little of worth in them though to stop older players even bothering going there. Or Concord/empire vessels could patrol the DDC making it much harder for anyone to gank the starters. Could be a very fertile recruiting ground for corps actually.

I understand the concept of making things easier, as a learning area, for new players. I am mainly a high sec player, so that should be right in my wheel house.

But I think the idea of creating a zone with different conditions, and different anom's, than the original one, is asking a lot of CCP.
Walk first, don't run.

If CCP buys into the concept at all, get the zone working. Keep tweaking it on Sisi, and likely TQ, until it is working as well as it can. Then look to add an easier zone for new player systems.

Holy moly...I had never seen that image.
Yeah, that would be a perfect screen shot of what this could look like.

"Training ground for newbies in hi sec", potentially a pretty brutal training ground.

Check this out man.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kmUf3fflrA

This video was one of the reasons I re-subbed. I was slightly disappointed when exploration turned out to look nothing like it was depicted in the video. This is EXACTLY what these non-scannable areas should look / feel like.

I would love to know exactly happened at CCP between the concept phase for Odyssey and final implementation.

"Training ground for newbies in hi sec", potentially a pretty brutal training ground.
Maybe have static ones in the starter systems that are milder, maybe a simple mechanic of no locking ships and no bombs. Correctly if im wrong but that would make it safe from pvp while still keeping it a learning ground of the cloud mechanics. Then outside of starter systems, the clouds would be the normal lost lawless space.

If there must be warping, require cynos (but disruption due to the cloud prevents lock-on from other systems, or even outside a thousand km or so) as navigational beacons..

This is the trickiest aspect of balancing this to my mind. Allow warp and people can bring large ships in fleet and effectively farm the location by saturating grids to deny access to others without a large enough fleet to dislodge them..This would effectively lock out lone explorers.

Disallow warp and suddenly the area has an intrinsic size limitation otherwise it takes too long to explore. This was my reasoning for the region being destructive to anything above a cruiser (gravitational effect or whatever). One way or another ships will need to cover the distance within the region and anything bigger than cruiser class (maybe even less) would just take and control the region.

This are would need to be tested in many ways I think to find the correct balance.

Just a though, the region could be like the mouth of a wormhole on that certain mass restrictions are in place, maybe these are wormholes trying to form, but failing to bridge to the parent system (which could be anywhere, even the other side ov Eve Gate :) )

Could be worth trying that out also, see which works best on the test server...also make the damaging clouds come and go randomly...then where someone previously thought was a safe spot is now a radioactive ball of gradual death...

Only problem with currents is that they need coding and not sure how tricky that would be, whereas a fixed region that you cannot warp into and that you can only warp to fleetmate/cyno in is much more easy to code.

...snip...

IF CCP can figure out the coding, just dump the cloud/zone/whatever you want to call it, ON TRANQUILITY, but ONLY the very bare bones. Do this in parallel with more elaborate Sisi tetsing. Imagine these clouds start randomly appearing in systems. There is nothing, and I mean NOTHING, in them. Just an area where d-scan does not work, where warping does not work. There is no PvE incentive to go in there, and the only reason to go into one is to hide ships. The only people initially using them would be PvPe'rs, for whatever reason. I imagine some would go in just for the trill of hunting each other.

Then slowly, over time, the conditions in there might change, as CCP overwrites the code, and starts adding PvE incentive, and tweaks the environment conditions, based on Sisi feedback.

This whole concept the more I think about it, no matter how simple I would like to see it stay, can never be expected to be perfect and whole out of the box immediately. CCP HAS to take it slow, with small iterative steps.

How about a cloud nebula that pulls you out of warp when you fly through it? That would be cool. Have a couple of different types of clouds. One that does damage parts of your ship. One that has hidden treasures or rewards - if you are configured correctly to find them. One that just sits there to **** you off. You're warping between gates and this floating cloud slows your ass down until you maneuver out of it.

I do have a few concerns though. Without the ability to warp out of the gas cloud any kind of mining would be severely limited. Unless miners set up hoards of Depots and stashed their minerals in those until the site despawned (not very practical given the volume of ore) there would be no way of hauling minerals out, as mining barges and Orcas are notoriously slow.

I like the idea that once inside to can warp to fleet mates but due to the cloud you land at a random location, maybe the further you have to warp the greater the distance/chance of landing away from your fleet mates.

I would be really interested to hear CCP's take on this - on how technically feasible it it, or how it fits into their long term plans for the game.

If this was to be implemented then I would have no money - as I would be giving it all to CCP.

I absolutly LOVE this idea!

I can imagine so much fun to be had just exploring those things.

There is one big Problem I see though.

If you cant warp at all in them the only chance to get out is by flying.

I would expect it would be more in line with existing areas, where warping out is no big deal, but you can only warp to the entrance area rather than anything inside the place itself.

Using Micro Jump Structures actually give PVPer the possiblity if they happen to stumble across one to kill it effektivly disrupting the marked way out. The one how laid the way down would need to get help by an interceptor or something fast to lay down a new way out.

I think this would be the perfect use for the new deployable MJ Structure - to be able to scout an area and use those to move bigger ships / industrial / miners etc more quickly.

Yes, I posted earlier in the thread about using the MJD deployable as a possibility, but that also has drawbacks.
If my calculations are correct, a player group could string them out at 100 km intervals, and if the 12 second spoolup number I read about is accurate, players can move 500 km / minute, or as fast as a tricked out interceptor. That is too fast, way too fast for most ships.

Granted, there is the cost of laying down the deployables, and the risk that someone with bad intents may follow your breadcrumbs of MJD's, but overall. something would have to be done to slow down the speed these provide.

Yes, I posted earlier in the thread about using the MJD deployable as a possibility, but that also has drawbacks.
If my calculations are correct, a player group could string them out at 100 km intervals, and if the 12 second spoolup number I read about is accurate, players can move 500 km / minute, or as fast as a tricked out interceptor. That is too fast, way too fast for most ships.

Granted, there is the cost of laying down the deployables, and the risk that someone with bad intents may follow your breadcrumbs of MJD's, but overall. something would have to be done to slow down the speed these provide.

Rather than just having this as a limited event inside of a system, why don't we instead say this cloud effect is what surrounds all of the systems?

We already have blocks against bookmarks being made too far off the grid, so to speak.

The Dinsdale Phenomenon Cloud could be the space which surrounds the systems itself.

It would kind of like be "the place that Reavers come from".