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Mallak Azaria GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 4414	Posted - 2014.01.23 08:03:00 - [2011] - Quote I thought that nothing would ever trump the stupidity of "pretending to be your own alt is bannable", then came along CCP SoniClover with the ESS. This user won the forums on 18/09/2013, then lost on 18/12/2013.
Gizznitt Malikite Agony Unleashed Agony Empire 3429	Posted - 2014.01.23 09:06:00 - [2012] - Quote So I tested the ESS on Sisi tonight, and the largest issue I have with it is you cannot stop the "access timers". If I get to the ESS and choose steal isk or share isk, the only way that the payout doesn't go through is if I power away from the ESS or get blown up. With the current 20s and/or 3 minute timers, this really doesn't leave adequate time for either party to defend the ESS. Here is one suggestion I'd like to make: 1.) Make it so you must lock the ESS to interact with it. 2.) Make it so if more than one person locks the ESS, the timer for payouts slows and/or stops. This way, there is a mechanic that either side can use to prolong the response window.
Jori McKie Friends Of Harassment 117	Posted - 2014.01.23 10:15:00 - [2013] - Quote Many of you guys does not see the strategic implications of the ESS. The ESS can be used as a strategic tool to interrupt income and force fights over it. Alliance A vs Alliance B Alliance A is deploying ESS in all ratting system Alliance B has, let the games begin....... Alliance A isn't dumb and babysit all the ESS waiting for a reaction from Alliance B while Alliance B now has to stop PvE or form a fleet to get rid of all ESS in their systems.
Sonho Kraven Industries 0	Posted - 2014.01.23 10:17:00 - [2014] - Quote Jori McKie wrote: Many of you guys does not see the strategic implications of the ESS. The ESS can be used as a strategic tool to interrupt income and force fights over it. Alliance A vs Alliance B Alliance A is deploying ESS in all ratting system Alliance B has, let the games begin....... Alliance A isn't dumb and babysit all the ESS waiting for a reaction from Alliance B while Alliance B now has to stop PvE or form a fleet to get rid of all ESS in their systems. Good luck covering all of the biggest ratting spots an alliance and maintaining that, and who thw hell fights for "rats" ?People rat for moons or space to rent .
Alphea Abbra Grim Determination Nulli Secunda 638	Posted - 2014.01.23 10:29:00 - [2015] - Quote Jori McKie wrote: Many of you guys does not see the strategic implications of the ESS. The ESS can be used as a strategic tool to interrupt income and force fights over it. Alliance A vs Alliance B Alliance A is deploying ESS in all ratting system Alliance B has, let the games begin....... Alliance A isn't dumb and babysit all the ESS waiting for a reaction from Alliance B while Alliance B now has to stop PvE or form a fleet to get rid of all ESS in their systems. Just to make sure: You mean this babysitting will have what difference compared to just having a gang in their system? I mean, no doubt there are people in nullsec with IQ comparable to rocks, but I very much doubt they'd be able to undock and rat at all, so you will have the same effect with or without the ESS: Either a defense fleet forms, or it doesn't. It's the same mistake Gizznitt makes all the time: How will this encourage fights? And furthermore: How should this encourage living in the space we've fought for? I still haven't seen the reasoning for either. Some people manage to concoct all manners of ways the ESS will suddenly generate all the fights that small gangs currently don't get to their hearts desire when roaming in hostile space. I'm sorry, I don't believe in magic.
Rommiee Mercury Inc. 679	Posted - 2014.01.23 10:56:00 - [2016] - Quote Jori McKie wrote: Many of you guys does not see the strategic implications of the ESS. The ESS can be used as a strategic tool to interrupt income and force fights over it. Alliance A vs Alliance B Alliance A is deploying ESS in all ratting system Alliance B has, let the games begin....... Alliance A isn't dumb and babysit all the ESS waiting for a reaction from Alliance B while Alliance B now has to stop PvE or form a fleet to get rid of all ESS in their systems. If you really think that will ever happen, then you have less of a clue than the Devs who came up with this pile of horseshit, and that takes some doing.
RoCCommander Aurora Armaments Gentlemen's Agreement 1	Posted - 2014.01.23 11:14:00 - [2017] - Quote CCP SoniClover wrote: Here's a quick update on the changes we've made to the ESS, based on testing and feedback. There is a dev blog coming out tomorrow detailing these (and other changes) to the deployables in 1.1, but here's a basic overview. Posted: 2014.01.21 13:25 Where is our Dev Blog? =( CCP Punkturis wrote: posting here in efforts of getting this thread to 100 pages \o/ Done
Rommiee Mercury Inc. 679	Posted - 2014.01.23 11:16:00 - [2018] - Quote RoCCommander wrote: CCP SoniClover wrote: Here's a quick update on the changes we've made to the ESS, based on testing and feedback. There is a dev blog coming out tomorrow detailing these (and other changes) to the deployables in 1.1, but here's a basic overview. Posted: 2014.01.21 13:25 Where is our Dev Blog? =( Lol you didn't actually believe him?
RoCCommander Aurora Armaments Gentlemen's Agreement 1	Posted - 2014.01.23 11:37:00 - [2019] - Quote Rommiee wrote: RoCCommander wrote: CCP SoniClover wrote: Here's a quick update on the changes we've made to the ESS, based on testing and feedback. There is a dev blog coming out tomorrow detailing these (and other changes) to the deployables in 1.1, but here's a basic overview. Posted: 2014.01.21 13:25 Where is our Dev Blog? =( Lol you didn't actually believe him? I kinda did But his is way is posted this, as kinda a "reminder"

CCP Fozzie C C P C C P Alliance 9064	Posted - 2014.01.23 11:50:00 - [2020] - Quote The dev blog should be out later today. The one day delay is my fault, I overestimated how quickly I'd be able to get it done in between CSM summit prep. Game Designer \| Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/

Altrue Exploration Frontier inc Brave Collective 907	Posted - 2014.01.23 11:51:00 - [2021] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: The dev blog should be out later today. The one day delay is my fault, I overestimated how quickly I'd be able to get it done in between CSM summit prep. Bah one day delay is nothing :D Signature Tanking - Best Tanking.
Juliette Asanari Saeder-Krupp Trading Division 47	Posted - 2014.01.23 12:02:00 - [2022] - Quote Altrue wrote: CCP Fozzie wrote: The dev blog should be out later today. The one day delay is my fault, I overestimated how quickly I'd be able to get it done in between CSM summit prep. Bah one day delay is nothing :D If the winter summit minutes will be out faster than the dev blog, we're in serious trouble :D
Tahnil Sirius Fleet 42	Posted - 2014.01.23 12:03:00 - [2023] - Quote Alphea Abbra wrote: I mean, no doubt there are people in nullsec with IQ comparable to rocks, but I very much doubt they'd be able to undock and rat at all, so you will have the same effect with or without the ESS: Either a defense fleet forms, or it doesn't. It's the same mistake Gizznitt makes all the time: How will this encourage fights? And furthermore: How should this encourage living in the space we've fought for? I still haven't seen the reasoning for either. Some people manage to concoct all manners of ways the ESS will suddenly generate all the fights that small gangs currently don't get to their hearts desire when roaming in hostile space. I'm sorry, I don't believe in magic. The main problems I still see with the ESS module are the timers. The module itself is quite fine. You can boost your nullsec PvE income by up to 25 percent compared to somebody who doesnGÇÿt use it. ThatGÇÿs a very nice buff for GÇPrank and file nullsec alliance membersGÇ£. The access timers though, they are really giving me a headache. First of all itGÇÿs still a problem that you can GÇPshareGÇ£ the content with an untrained alt possibly before any attacker is able to warp to the structure. But also the three minute timer for the GÇPtake allGÇ£ option is a problem. With these timers the module will in my opinion not generate a lot of fights. I hope IGÇÿm wrong. But on the other hand, it seems to be simple to tweak the module if it fails in itGÇÿs first iteration as a small gang conflict driver. At least nullbears can be happy about a considerable income buff. Maybe that will drag some alts people back from wormholes and hisec missions, and that would be a good thing already.
Alphea Abbra Grim Determination Nulli Secunda 640	Posted - 2014.01.23 12:21:00 - [2024] - Quote Tahnil wrote: With these timers the module will in my opinion not generate a lot of fights. I hope IGÇÿm wrong. But on the other hand, it seems to be simple to tweak the module if it fails in itGÇÿs first iteration as a small gang conflict driver. If everything else goes wrong, at least nullbears can be happy about a considerable income buff. Maybe that will drag some alts back from wormholes and hisec missions, and that would be a good thing already. I'm not sure you came to the conclusion that it could be a conflict driver at all. Or how it should give "nullbears" an income buff, or "a considerable" one. Or how it should get alts back to nullsec. It addresses none of those issues, and it is unable to. As said earlier, if you want fights, the ESS is useless, if you want hotdrops, it is most likely useless. If you want serious fights in nullsec, you should advocate something like 10x the amount of sites per system. Going from 0-5 people to 0-50 people able to live in a system might change something, while the ESS will make the same 0-5 people dock up / safe up as before, incase they're even still there.
Altrue Exploration Frontier inc Brave Collective 913	Posted - 2014.01.23 12:35:00 - [2025] - Quote They main problem of the ESS if you consider that its aimed to be a conflict driver is indeed the fact that it will only be accessed by alts anyway. The second main problem is the income buff from a null sec, already "generating tons of isks" from a CCP dev perspective. The third main problem is the massive decrease in LP value. In itself, why not, but it nerfs lv5 missions that were already quite marginalized. Signature Tanking - Best Tanking.
Tahnil Sirius Fleet 42	Posted - 2014.01.23 13:06:00 - [2026] - Quote Alphea Abbra wrote: Tahnil wrote: With these timers the module will in my opinion not generate a lot of fights. I hope IGÇÿm wrong. But on the other hand, it seems to be simple to tweak the module if it fails in itGÇÿs first iteration as a small gang conflict driver. If everything else goes wrong, at least nullbears can be happy about a considerable income buff. Maybe that will drag some alts back from wormholes and hisec missions, and that would be a good thing already. I'm not sure you came to the conclusion that it could be a conflict driver at all. Or how it should give "nullbears" an income buff, or "a considerable" one. Or how it should get alts back to nullsec. It addresses none of those issues, and it is unable to. As said earlier, if you want fights, the ESS is useless, if you want hotdrops, it is most likely useless. If you want serious fights in nullsec, you should advocate something like 10x the amount of sites per system. Going from 0-5 people to 0-50 people able to live in a system might change something, while the ESS will make the same 0-5 people dock up / safe up as before, incase they're even still there. As I tried to point out in previous posts nullsec how it works today is not necesarily a GÇPgoodGÇ£ thing. It has developed over the years to the state it is in now: GÇô nullsec people splitting their activity into a PvP main char (deployed far away from home) and a (ratting) PvE alt (staying in home space) GÇô large battles being the main PvP content in nullsec GÇô home regions being empty most of the time ThatGÇÿs a neutral observation. Modules like ESS are a small gang target. It gives a boost to ratting, but it can be raided and destroyed by small gangs, or even individual brigands. I know that most or all nullsec alliances currently arenGÇÿt prepared for this kind of challenge. There's nobody at home, willing and able to fight off pirates and intruders. ThatGÇÿs the main reason why most people say it wonGÇÿt work. I think modules like ESS are able to and will change everyday life in nullsec GÇô-áat least to some degree, but not over night. If you want to GÇPre-viveGÇ£ activities in large portions of nullsec space, you need game additions like ESS. And alliances will adapt to the new challenges, some fast, some only over time. For example if ESS is used in more and more places, it might be necessary for an alliance to build up some kind of home defense force, specifically suited for fights against small gangs of intruders. Either PvE alts will train necessary skills and keep some PvP ships at home, or there might be squads for players of the alliance, who actually enjoy patrolling home space, and fighting intruders. Like an alliance police force. I think thatGÇÿs a very nice idea
Dinsdale Pirannha Pirannha Corp 2075	Posted - 2014.01.23 13:39:00 - [2027] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: The dev blog should be out later today. The one day delay is my fault, I overestimated how quickly I'd be able to get it done in between CSM summit prep. Kind of like how you have underestimated the damage you are doing to drone users with the nerfs to the Omni's? Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook.
Rommiee Mercury Inc. 679	Posted - 2014.01.23 13:40:00 - [2028] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: The dev blog should be out later today. The one day delay is my fault, I overestimated how quickly I'd be able to get it done in between CSM summit prep. More CSM prep.... Awesome, I'm already looking forward to the next fantastic idea you guys come up with... I'm really excited about it.
Dinsdale Pirannha Pirannha Corp 2075	Posted - 2014.01.23 13:45:00 - [2029] - Quote Andrea Keuvo wrote: Nevyn Auscent wrote: Just to spell out the maths. Start point. No ESS. 95% today. ESS. Assuming 1k/lp. Lower than it is currently, lets not doom & gloom crazy, because as price of LP drops from supply, more people will buy the now cheaper items, keeping price partly modulated. So LP won't crash. 80% ISK + 15% LP. 95%. NO OVERALL LOSS EVEN IF YOU GET NOTHING FROM THE ESS. Upgraded ESS. 80% ISK + 20% LP LP. 100%. GAIN ABOVE NO ESS ALREADY. Upgraded ESS + Payout 80% ISK + 25% ISK + 20% LP. 125%. MASSIVE PAYOUT GAIN. So, Deploying the ESS is actually very low risk now. You stand to loose the initial 30 Million if you don't get any upgrade ticks done before it gets stolen from & blown up. But unless LP crashes badly (Since it's actually above 1k for most LP anyway, so can drop a bit before making 1k an invalid number) you make the lost 15% isk back in LP, if not quite as convenient. And if you actually manage to upgrade it and get the payout from the ESS when hostiles come through or you are simply done ratting, you make a bucket load of profit. It's looking good now. How will -10 sec status people cash in their LP? Because the next step you whiners will get done is a campaign to exchange Empire LP to faction pirate LP, like you can exchange Concord LP for empire LP. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook.
Steve Ronuken Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM 2583	Posted - 2014.01.23 13:54:00 - [2030] - Quote One thing to note. The Faction Navies have stations with LP stores in Lowsec. https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/routeplanner/ Steve Ronuken for CSM 9! http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Dinsdale Pirannha Pirannha Corp 2075	Posted - 2014.01.23 14:22:00 - [2031] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: And when are you going to significantly increase the number of anomalies per system which desperately needs to be done? What, so someone who is botting in a system with 2 accounts can now bot with 4? Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook.
Jori McKie Friends Of Harassment 117	Posted - 2014.01.23 14:49:00 - [2032] - Quote Quote: Sonho wrote: Jori McKie wrote: Many of you guys does not see the strategic implications of the ESS. The ESS can be used as a strategic tool to interrupt income and force fights over it. Alliance A vs Alliance B Alliance A is deploying ESS in all ratting system Alliance B has, let the games begin....... Alliance A isn't dumb and babysit all the ESS waiting for a reaction from Alliance B while Alliance B now has to stop PvE or form a fleet to get rid of all ESS in their systems. Good luck covering all of the biggest ratting spots an alliance and maintaining that, and who thw hell fights for "rats" ?People rat for moons or space to rent . Alphea Abbra wrote: just having a gang in their system? I mean, no doubt there are people in nullsec with IQ comparable to rocks, but I very much doubt they'd be able to undock and rat at all, so you will have the same effect with or without the ESS: Either a defense fleet forms, or it doesn't. It's the same mistake Gizznitt makes all the time: How will this encourage fights? And furthermore: How should this encourage living in the space we've fought for? I still haven't seen the reasoning for either. Some people manage to concoct all manners of ways the ESS will suddenly generate all the fights that small gangs currently don't get to their hearts desire when roaming in hostile space. I'm sorry, I don't believe in magic. Rommiee wrote: If you really think that will ever happen, then you have less of a clue than the Devs who came up with this pile of horseshit, and that takes some doing. So i have to explain in detail how this works? Alliance B has 20 ratting/farming/ano systems whatever you call it where they kill NPCs for bounty. Alliance A has a fleet ready may it via cyno or Blops, whatever Alliance A wants to harass farming in the prime time of Alliance B for lets say 2h as strategic goal and with some luck getting a fight. What does Alliance A do now without an ESS, put up 20 cloak alts in local, see whats going on. If you are smart enough who the **** cares about a cloak alt, sure your farming may be interrupted from time to time but the point is you can not shut down farming at all. Now the ESS comes into play, same setup, 20 systems, 20 cloak alts in grid with the ESS. Still you can't shut down farming at all but you can annoy the hell out of those farming guys. Either way, you are getting the cash from the ESS or you kill an Interceptor/Frig trying to access the ESS via Blops or you kill XXXX. It does not matter, the ESS is the cherry on top to harass someone else. The farming guys have 3 options. - Stop farming partially or at all for 2h = mission accomplished (and if they chicken heads as long as there is a cloak alt in system) - Trying to steal from the ESS after farming and may or may not get caught = mission accomplished - Forming a fleet to kill alll 20 ESS = mission accomplished Rinse and repeat that for 2 weeks and i bet Alliance B farming boys are pretty pissed and Alliance B has to deal with it one way or another.
KIller Wabbit The Scope Gallente Federation 534	Posted - 2014.01.23 15:02:00 - [2033] - Quote yeah, it's called "enough is enough. unsub" CCP Punkturis-á "I want to get in on the goodposter circle jerk!"
Tahnil Sirius Fleet 43	Posted - 2014.01.23 15:34:00 - [2034] - Quote KIller Wabbit wrote: yeah, it's called "enough is enough. unsub" RidiculousGÇª HowGÇÿs that different from hisec carebears rage quitting the game after realising for the first time that there are other players in the sandbox who like to ruin other peopleGÇÿs days?
Weaselior GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 6215	Posted - 2014.01.23 15:38:00 - [2035] - Quote Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: Because the next step you whiners will get done is a campaign to exchange Empire LP to faction pirate LP, like you can exchange Concord LP for empire LP. you realize nearly every post you make is whining over how a change will impact your isk/hour do you see any irony in calling anyone else a whiner Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division: "We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half."
stoicfaux 3889	Posted - 2014.01.23 15:38:00 - [2036] - Quote Is it considered griefing if you put an ESS in the middle of a star or any other object guaranteed to bounce you away before you can claim the ESS tags? WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
stoicfaux 3889	Posted - 2014.01.23 15:42:00 - [2037] - Quote Tag prices. More LP chasing the same supply of tags is going to be interesting. Also, it looks like CCP is interested in faucets, sinks, and inflation. So if we're going to increase Navy LP, then why not make Navy faction items, i.e. weapons, better (comparable to T2 in certain circumstances) and cheaper (less tags) in order to encourage people to burn up that LP and sink their isk? WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
Andrea Keuvo Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 201	Posted - 2014.01.23 16:27:00 - [2038] - Quote Jori McKie wrote: So i have to explain in detail how this works? Alliance B has 20 ratting/farming/ano systems whatever you call it where they kill NPCs for bounty. Alliance A has a fleet ready may it via cyno or Blops, whatever Alliance A wants to harass farming in the prime time of Alliance B for lets say 2h as strategic goal and with some luck getting a fight. What does Alliance A do now without an ESS, put up 20 cloak alts in local, see whats going on. If you are smart enough who the **** cares about a cloak alt, sure your farming may be interrupted from time to time but the point is you can not shut down farming at all. Now the ESS comes into play, same setup, 20 systems, 20 cloak alts in grid with the ESS. Still you can't shut down farming at all but you can annoy the hell out of those farming guys. Either way, you are getting the cash from the ESS or you kill an Interceptor/Frig trying to access the ESS via Blops or you kill XXXX. It does not matter, the ESS is the cherry on top to harass someone else. The farming guys have 3 options. - Stop farming partially or at all for 2h = mission accomplished (and if they chicken heads as long as there is a cloak alt in system) - Trying to steal from the ESS after farming and may or may not get caught = mission accomplished - Forming a fleet to kill alll 20 ESS = mission accomplished Rinse and repeat that for 2 weeks and i bet Alliance B farming boys are pretty pissed and Alliance B has to deal with it one way or another. 1. If alliance A comes and drops one of these in alliance B's farming system nobody will rat while it is there. 2. If alliance A leaves a cloaky alt in system to babysit the ESS no one will undock to rat 3. If alliance A leaves an ESS in alliance B's system unattended alliance B ratters will blow it up 4. if alliance A parks a cloaky alt in system with no ESS deployed no one will undock to rat Please tell me again how the ESS has changed anything/added content/acted as a conflict driver beyond just parking a cloaky alt in a ratting system? You wont get the square peg into the round hole no matter how long and hard you try.
Regan Rotineque Rl'yeh Interstellar Ltd. Mildly Sober 208	Posted - 2014.01.23 16:43:00 - [2039] - Quote Andrea Keuvo wrote: Jori McKie wrote: So i have to explain in detail how this works? Alliance B has 20 ratting/farming/ano systems whatever you call it where they kill NPCs for bounty. Alliance A has a fleet ready may it via cyno or Blops, whatever Alliance A wants to harass farming in the prime time of Alliance B for lets say 2h as strategic goal and with some luck getting a fight. What does Alliance A do now without an ESS, put up 20 cloak alts in local, see whats going on. If you are smart enough who the **** cares about a cloak alt, sure your farming may be interrupted from time to time but the point is you can not shut down farming at all. Now the ESS comes into play, same setup, 20 systems, 20 cloak alts in grid with the ESS. Still you can't shut down farming at all but you can annoy the hell out of those farming guys. Either way, you are getting the cash from the ESS or you kill an Interceptor/Frig trying to access the ESS via Blops or you kill XXXX. It does not matter, the ESS is the cherry on top to harass someone else. The farming guys have 3 options. - Stop farming partially or at all for 2h = mission accomplished (and if they chicken heads as long as there is a cloak alt in system) - Trying to steal from the ESS after farming and may or may not get caught = mission accomplished - Forming a fleet to kill alll 20 ESS = mission accomplished Rinse and repeat that for 2 weeks and i bet Alliance B farming boys are pretty pissed and Alliance B has to deal with it one way or another. 1. If alliance A comes and drops one of these in alliance B's farming system nobody will rat while it is there. 2. If alliance A leaves a cloaky alt in system to babysit the ESS no one will undock to rat 3. If alliance A leaves an ESS in alliance B's system unattended alliance B ratters will blow it up 4. if alliance A parks a cloaky alt in system with no ESS deployed no one will undock to rat Please tell me again how the ESS has changed anything/added content/acted as a conflict driver beyond just parking a cloaky alt in a ratting system? You wont get the square peg into the round hole no matter how long and hard you try. You are 100% correct Adding a new module will not force players to adapt. If it's there and afk cloaker is there...some may shoot it. But it will be rare and far between . It is easier to cyno out to a new system than bother with afk cloakers. Leave no guard and it is guaranteed dead in a few minutes. I will log to sisi today to look at the recent changes. But I still don't see this as a good investment of time. Either from a player perspective ie: did this make EvE more fun or from a programming resource point ie: let's make stuff nobody asked for or wants
Steve Ronuken Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM 2588	Posted - 2014.01.23 16:53:00 - [2040] - Quote Andrea Keuvo wrote: Jori McKie wrote: So i have to explain in detail how this works? Alliance B has 20 ratting/farming/ano systems whatever you call it where they kill NPCs for bounty. Alliance A has a fleet ready may it via cyno or Blops, whatever Alliance A wants to harass farming in the prime time of Alliance B for lets say 2h as strategic goal and with some luck getting a fight. What does Alliance A do now without an ESS, put up 20 cloak alts in local, see whats going on. If you are smart enough who the **** cares about a cloak alt, sure your farming may be interrupted from time to time but the point is you can not shut down farming at all. Now the ESS comes into play, same setup, 20 systems, 20 cloak alts in grid with the ESS. Still you can't shut down farming at all but you can annoy the hell out of those farming guys. Either way, you are getting the cash from the ESS or you kill an Interceptor/Frig trying to access the ESS via Blops or you kill XXXX. It does not matter, the ESS is the cherry on top to harass someone else. The farming guys have 3 options. - Stop farming partially or at all for 2h = mission accomplished (and if they chicken heads as long as there is a cloak alt in system) - Trying to steal from the ESS after farming and may or may not get caught = mission accomplished - Forming a fleet to kill alll 20 ESS = mission accomplished Rinse and repeat that for 2 weeks and i bet Alliance B farming boys are pretty pissed and Alliance B has to deal with it one way or another. 1. If alliance A comes and drops one of these in alliance B's farming system nobody will rat while it is there. 2. If alliance A leaves a cloaky alt in system to babysit the ESS no one will undock to rat 3. If alliance A leaves an ESS in alliance B's system unattended alliance B ratters will blow it up 4. if alliance A parks a cloaky alt in system with no ESS deployed no one will undock to rat Please tell me again how the ESS has changed anything/added content/acted as a conflict driver beyond just parking a cloaky alt in a ratting system? You wont get the square peg into the round hole no matter how long and hard you try. Ratting Corp A drops an ESS in their own system (They're not really alliance level assets. As everything happens at character level). to improve their isk/hr for ratting. Roaming Gang B comes along. Maybe they'll get some tags, maybe not. more chance of a fight, as there's actually a reason to go out. Steve Ronuken for CSM 9! http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

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