Here's a hypothetical question for you CCP. In your opinion, what sort of scan resolution should be required to catch an interceptor after it has just jumped through a stargate?

Here's a hypothetical question for you CCP. In your opinion, what sort of scan resolution should be required to catch an interceptor after it has just jumped through a stargate?

****** nerf, for once i was enjoying flying inties.

That depends...... how much effort has the interceptor pilot put into making his ship fast & uncatchable.....
Or has he shield tanked it & plated it to make it slow & sluggish.

Or to put it better. How much wood could a wood chuck chuck if a wood chuck could chuck wood.

no ship should be uncatchable.

Why do the 2 missile ceptors get the biggest hit here? why does the crow deserve a 1s slower base align time compared to the ares?

just curious about the reasons.

Every interceptor should have their own strengths and weaknesses that make the decision of which to fly interesting.
The Crow has excellent damage application at long ranges (even when it is flying at high speeds), four very valuable midslots and the longest lock range of any interceptor. It's weaknesses are a bit less speed than most others, lower theoretical top end damage, as well as slightly weaker agility.

LOL WTF ?

WIth Eve only ticking every second its already a pain to stay at point range when you're going that fast, yet here is an agility nerf ! :(

As long as they take more than one second to align (which is clearly the case here), interceptors are lockable. An agility nerf won't help incompetent people from trying (and failing) to lock interceptors with battleships, their complaints will remain. However, it will impair their combat ability. I mentionned point range, but what about, say, blaster range ? It's very VERY hard to fly already.

Reasons for the Malediction are more or less the same?

Agility is extremly curcial for holding an orbit without loosing the point and still not come close into scram web range. This is already hard enough as the point bonis are not at that much difference especially at the short points.

Interceptors were not uncatchable and if - they were they were not fit too well for combat. This change is nonsense and will lead to problems in the Tackle role. I say again Tackle role - not Travel role.

This nerf comes to soon - people cry because they dont want to make any effort to counter it!!!

Every interceptor should have their own strengths and weaknesses that make the decision of which to fly interesting.
The Crow has excellent damage application at long ranges (even when it is flying at high speeds), four very valuable midslots and the longest lock range of any interceptor. It's weaknesses are a bit less speed than most others, lower theoretical top end damage, as well as slightly weaker agility.

Overall the Rubicon Interceptor rebalance was a smashing success. We're very happy with the player reaction, with the gameplay involved in flying Interceptors, and with the effect on other areas of EVE.

However we think the gameplay on both sides would be a bit more compelling and the balance between Inties and other frigates would be a bit better if they had slightly weaker agility. We're going to make a tweak to agility in 1.1 and continue to monitor the results.

Every Interceptor is getting a slight agility nerf in this pass, with the missile ceptors (Crow and Malediction) getting bigger changes than the others since they have proven extremely powerful in other ways (especially in groups). On average this will result in a 10% longer align time for the class.

The balance of having Interceptors with more speed (and warp speed and bubble immunity) and Faction Frigates with better agility is one we believe will help keep the frigate pvp landscape diverse and exciting.

Agility (as a modifier on mass) affects the turning time (often measured as align time) of ships. Lower is better.
The align times listed below are for a hypothetical character with 0 skills.


CRUSADER
Mobility (agility / align time): 3.2 (+0.1) / 4.66 (+0.15)

=============================================================================

MALEDICTION
Mobility (agility / align time): 3.7 (+0.55) / 5.12 (+0.76)

=============================================================================

RAPTOR
Mobility (agility / align time): 3.35 (+0.15) / 4.64 (+0.21)

=============================================================================

CROW
Mobility (agility / align time): 3.7 (+0.6) / 5.46 (+0.88)

=============================================================================

TARANIS
Mobility (agility / align time): 3.25 (+0.25) / 4.82 (+0.37)

=============================================================================

ARES
Mobility (agility / align time): 3.35 (+0.25) / 4.6 (+0.21)

=============================================================================

CLAW
Mobility (agility / align time): 3.15 (+0.15) / 4.8 (+0.23)

=============================================================================

STILETTO
Mobility (agility / align time): 3.5 (+0.4) / 4.95 (+0.57)


These changes will be on SISI shortly for you to try out.
Let us know what you think!

Every Interceptor is getting a slight agility nerf in this pass, with the missile ceptors (Crow and Malediction) getting bigger changes than the others since they have proven extremely powerful in other ways (especially in groups). On average this will result in a 10% longer align time for the class.

The balance of having Interceptors with more speed (and warp speed and bubble immunity) and Faction Frigates with better agility is one we believe will help keep the frigate pvp landscape diverse and exciting.

Agility (as a modifier on mass) affects the turning time (often measured as align time) of ships. Lower is better.
The align times listed below are for a hypothetical character with 0 skills.

As long as they take more than one second to align (which is clearly the case here), interceptors are lockable.

Nope. There's a one server tick delay before the gate cloak wears off, and a one tick delay for the lock even with infinite scanres. Interceptors with <2s align times are 100% impossible to catch on gates.

Test it on Sisi with a few mates.

Unless you believe they should be uncatchable, this nerf was inevitable.

Why do the 2 missile ceptors get the biggest hit here? why does the crow deserve a 1s slower base align time compared to the ares?

just curious about the reasons.

The Crow has excellent damage application at long ranges (even when it is flying at high speeds)

And it just so happens that many people have been using 1.9s align time Maledictions to harass and kill otherwise unkillable nullsec ratters, most dominantly Goon ones. And now they're getting nerfed hardcore, making them unusable for that task entirely. :tinfoil:

The solution!
Let me suggest you a compromise. If you want to nerf their agility for travel, why not giving them a role bonus that reduces their mass when using MWDs. (Effectively removing the mass penalty, or even going further and decreasing their mass). This way, interception in combat remains the same (or can even be improved), but interceptors for travel are nerfed. Even if you reduce their mass during MWD, you cannot use that to travel because of the one second tick that will negate this benefit (the interceptor will loose the second of acceleration before activation of the module) and because of the sig radius penalty that decrease lock time on an MWDIng interceptor.

The solution!
Let me suggest you a compromise. If you want to nerf their agility for travel, why not giving them a role bonus that reduces their mass when using MWDs. (Effectively removing the mass penalty, or even going further and decreasing their mass). This way, interception in combat remains the same (or can even be improved), but interceptors for travel are nerfed. Even if you reduce their mass during MWD, you cannot use that to travel because of the one second tick that will negate this benefit (the interceptor will loose the second of acceleration before activation of the module) and because of the sig radius penalty that decrease lock time on an MWDIng interceptor.

Fun fact, I actually experimented with MWD mass penalty reductions when I was doing the Navy Cruisers. It's so overpowered that I had a blast with it on the test server but it isn't something I expect we'll see on TQ any time soon.

The best thing about it was what happened when you combine with an oversized MWD.

Fun fact, I actually experimented with MWD mass penalty reductions when I was doing the Navy Cruisers. It's so overpowered that I had a blast with it on the test server but it isn't something I expect we'll see on TQ any time soon.

The best thing about it was what happened when you combine with an oversized MWD.

Does this actually make a difference when trying to catch an inty at a gate?

I don't see how it could be overpowered. If you keep the agility nerf that you are planning to do, it could just make ceptors return to their previous agility to mass ratio that they had with MWD before the nerf. With just less mass and more inertia modifier.

It may have been overpowered for navy cruisers but we are talking about interceptors right now. They have nothing in common.

Fun fact, I actually experimented with MWD mass penalty reductions when I was doing the Navy Cruisers. It's so overpowered that I had a blast with it on the test server but it isn't something I expect we'll see on TQ any time soon.

The best thing about it was what happened when you combine with an oversized MWD.

The problem with interceptors is their interdiction nullification, not their agility. Give them their agility back and remove their bubble immunity.

This. As it stands they are virtually uncatchable, even with sensor boosts etc. Stupidly easy to get a cyno into system now.

The problem with interceptors is their interdiction nullification, not their agility. Give them their agility back and remove their bubble immunity.

Overall the Rubicon Interceptor rebalance was a smashing success...




Let us know what you think!

What do I think? I think you should be working for a tinpot dictator. Your first sentence would make Baghdad Bob blush. Your server ticks make this change meaningless.

qft. Removing bubble immunity will eliminate many of the problems interceptors currently have.

What do I think? I think you should be working for a tinpot dictator. Your first sentence would make Baghdad Bob blush. Your server ticks make this change meaningless.

Overall the Rubicon Interceptor rebalance was a smashing success. We're very happy with the player reaction, with the gameplay involved in flying Interceptors, and with the effect on other areas of EVE.

However we think the gameplay on both sides would be a bit more compelling and the balance between Inties and other frigates would be a bit better if they had slightly weaker agility. We're going to make a tweak to agility in 1.1 and continue to monitor the results.

The balance of having Interceptors with more speed (and warp speed and bubble immunity) and Faction Frigates with better agility is one we believe will help keep the frigate pvp landscape diverse and exciting.

CLAW
Mobility (agility / align time): 3.15 (+0.15) / 4.8 (+0.23)

=============================================================================

STILETTO
Mobility (agility / align time): 3.5 (+0.4) / 4.95 (+0.57)

CLAW
Role bonuses:
80% reduction in Propulsion Jamming systems activation cost
Immunity to non-targeted interdiction
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 475 / 3(-0.09) / 1100000(-26000) / 4.57s(-0.25) (was 4.82)

=============================================================================

STILETTO
Role bonuses:
80% reduction in Propulsion Jamming systems activation cost
Immunity to non-targeted interdiction
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 435 / 3.1 / 1020000(-80000) / 4.38s(-0.35) (was 4.73)

The problem with interceptors is their interdiction nullification, not their agility. Give them their agility back and remove their bubble immunity.

QFT. I fly interceptors to tackle bad guys, not as a T2 shuttle. You are hurting the combat strengths of this ship class so that people can warp gate-to-gate with complete impunity.

You are just being stubborn and refusing to admit that your first idea (nullification) was dumb.

Otherwise unkillable nullsec ratters? What crack are you smoking? VNI's and Ishtars kit out for tanking Gurista's (which is what you mostly find in goonspace) have huge vulnerabilities towards many things. This nerf just means TEST can't run around with an uncatchable 20m isk ship blowing up 100-200m ratting ships while laughing at 30 man sensor boosted gatecamps and roaming gangs trying to catch them. I'm sorry, but if an interceptor specifically warps right into scram range of my sensor boosted assault frigate or counter interceptor, I should have more than a 1 in 20 chance of catching you. Right now, even with a ship that has a 1s lock time against interceptors I still have a razor thin margin to catch you. So razor thin that it has less to do with skill and fitting and more to do with just plain dumb luck and if the server winds want to swing in my favor.

Should interceptors be extremely slippery and be able to dictate their engagements? Yes

Should interceptors be able to run around with absolute impunity against any form of counter defense? No

I for one love people running around goonspace trying to blow us up. It provides valuable lessons and content. But when a single ship is able to engage only the things he wants to, and just laugh and run away from everything else, no matter how big of a defense is mounted against it, that's kind of broken.

I agree with others in this thread that say the combat and tackling abilities of interceptors aren't what need to be nerfed. Only their ability to warp in, look, and turn around and warp out before ANYTHING (Even sensor boosted, high scan res frigates in point blank scram range) can catch it. It not impossible, but like I said earlier, it just comes down to %33 percent skill/fit %66 percent dumb luck. Needs more skill/fit, less dumb luck.

Should interceptors be able to run around with absolute impunity against any form of counter defense? No

So razor thin that it has less to do with skill and fitting and more to do with just plain dumb luck and if the server winds want to swing in my favor.

But when a single ship is able to engage only the things he wants to, and just laugh and run away from everything else, no matter how big of a defense is mounted against it, that's kind of broken.

Yes.

Because of mechanical interactions server ticks and gate cloak, a ship with an align time below two seconds cannot be pointed out of gate cloak before it warps away, no matter how high your scan resolution is or how quick your finger is on the prefire button. Anything over that line can be caught. Note that this only applies to ships leaving gatecloak: ships undocking or landing on grid can be caught conventionally.


The Malediction and Crow are getting hit harder than the others because, combined with this and their ability to engage targets from a safe distances and completely ignore their MWD penalties to damage application, they have been the gold standard of uncatchable interceptor roams. To be frank, being able to do your damage without having to come within scram/web/neut range or worry about tracking while you zoom around at 4km/sec is a really really big advantage.


I haven't undocked my ratting ships since Rubicon hit for what it's worth, though I've spent plenty of time shitting up other people's space in an interceptor.

More evidence that goon tears are a major component in driving balance iteration~

yup.....

Balance iteration...funny term.

And the theory that goons are running the show is like saying gravity is just a theory.

Fun fact, I actually experimented with MWD mass penalty reductions when I was doing the Navy Cruisers. It's so overpowered that I had a blast with it on the test server but it isn't something I expect we'll see on TQ any time soon.

The best thing about it was what happened when you combine with an oversized MWD.

[
You can't run from smartbombs.Besides, inties picking their fights and getting in and out of a fight when they chose to is what they're supposed to do.

Hint: the fit we were running had nothing to do with luck. We were gimping our tanking and damage dealing capabilities to the maximum in return for 100% safety of gatecamps. Our fits weren't able to engage anything else than a lone ratter, but somehow that must've been classified as OP...

You can't run from smartbombs, but you could also try doing literally anything other than fleet-warping yourselves unscouted from gate to gate all the way across a region if you want to avoid them. It's not like you don't know the possibility of it exists or something and if you take basic proactive measures you can completely avoid it. The only way for you to end up in a pile on top of the Disco Tempest is to put yourselves there.

Anyways, your problem isn't that Ishtars are too hard to catch, because your frigates are still perfectly capable of that and half of them are probably literally AFK anyways. Your problem is that defense fleets are too effective and now it's not mechanically impossible for them to catch you. Why do you think a group of PvP pilots actively seeking to defend their own space shouldn't be able to do so?

Had a look at the numbers - to catch a standard fit ceptor in a gatecamp you'll need approx 1150 scan res, which is about what a ceptor in a fleet has. Or a multiple reseboed Arazu .....

To catch a nano fit or agility-rigged ceptor, you'll need approx 2300 scanres (which is a ceptor with sebo and t2 scanres rig). I think this is the main difference in terms of travelling around - in the past the stiletto / malediction / raptor / ares were already at this figure without needing to add anything extra.

Every interceptor should have their own strengths and weaknesses that make the decision of which to fly interesting.
The Crow has excellent damage application at long ranges (even when it is flying at high speeds), four very valuable midslots and the longest lock range of any interceptor. It's weaknesses are a bit less speed than most others, lower theoretical top end damage, as well as slightly weaker agility.

Not to knock you or anything but I don't see why its such a big bad terrible thing to have a ship that can insta warp. But having gate camps that can insta lock is perfectly fine and acceptable.

No.

(Also "gravity" is not a theory, it's an observed effect. Newton's laws of gravity are a theory. General relativity is a theory. Saying that something is "just a theory" is stupid because it fundamentally misunderstands the concept of theory in the first place.)

Fun fact, I actually experimented with MWD mass penalty reductions when I was doing the Navy Cruisers. It's so overpowered that I had a blast with it on the test server but it isn't something I expect we'll see on TQ any time soon.

The best thing about it was what happened when you combine with an oversized MWD.

you cant fit enough LO in an inty to cyno without 1-2 expanders which make you easily catchable by a camp that is prepared for it, and this doesnt fix the cyno issue anyway as people will just fit a cloak and mwd+cloak into warp regardless.

CCP just admit that Interceptor nullifier was a terrible idea and remove the bonus.

Here's a hypothetical question for you CCP. In your opinion, what sort of scan resolution should be required to catch an interceptor after it has just jumped through a stargate?

that's exactly what the OP is explaining, because of the server tick and how the game works, anythiyng warpin under 2 sec is uncatchable,wich is most often seen with ceptors, pods, shuttles and for some inty like frigs.

note that i realy appreciate that a CCP dev explain the root of the issue, and take real mesures in the intend to fix it

Again that's perfectly true.

Is it me or are people actually surprised to see an interceptor able to slip past blockades and catch stuff ?
Then what ? Logi will get a rep nerf because people are complaining they are repping more than logi drones ? :/



If you are unsatisfied about the state of missile interceptors, maybe now should be the time to take a look at the missile system in its globality, instead of nerfing missile ships with random stats that will not affect his damage application, but will affect his ability to tackle, which is much more impairing.

This does not mean that I share your analysis of the crow's damage ability. In fact I find it very wrong :( :
1- The Crow has excellent damage application at long ranges even when flying at high speeds. Indeed it does, but its dps with light missiles is quite low. In addition to that, fitting requirements for light missiles makes it impossible to use its other strenghts (i.e med slots) at the same time. You can use ridiculously overpriced meta4 launchers to ease that eventually. And of course, needless to say, dps is not very important for interceptors...
2- The Crow has four very valuable mid slots. Indeed it does, and indeed they are very valuable ! Because if you substract the MWD and Point that an interceptor MUST have, you're left with two med slots for the tank. That's one less compared to three low armor ceptors. Just look at your metrics for the Raptor (which is shield and has three med slots) and try to prove that I'm wrong :D. Also again, that's two med slots that cannot be put to good use at the same time than its damage application. Due to fitting requirements.
3- The Crow has the longest lock range of any interceptor. That is true (by only 7% more than a turret ship like the Ares, but why not...). However every interceptor has enough targeting range to keep target during the full long point range. And at these speeds, the extra range is ridiculous since it reprensent one second of piloting.
4- Nerfing its agility wont prevent tracel ceptors from prevaling, which is normal by the way. But it will cause issues during combat, a moment where current agility stats could even have used a buff.

So, overall, due to secondary and debatable advantages, you're nerfing one of the primary stats of this ship. That is not cool !
Also, calling it a "Tweak" when you're taking away almost a FULL SECOND of align time (unskilled I know but I wanted to sound dramatic :D) on a ship relying only on agility and speed... That's a bold move ! Like making a post about, say, "Carrier Brandwidth Tweak" to remove 20% of their brandwidth ^^

Edit :
The solution!
Let me suggest you a compromise. If you want to nerf their agility for travel, why not giving them a role bonus that reduces their mass when using MWDs. (Effectively removing the mass penalty, or even going further and decreasing their mass). This way, interception in combat remains the same (or can even be improved), but interceptors for travel are nerfed. Even if you reduce their mass during MWD, you cannot use that to travel because of the one second tick that will negate this benefit (the interceptor will loose the second of acceleration before activation of the module) and because of the sig radius penalty that decrease lock time on an MWDIng interceptor.

How about instead of breaking what isnt broken we remove bubble immunity and call it a day.

because each time some 0.0 dwellers complains of bubble immunity, they are proovign to CCP that they achieved their desired result and that Bubble immunity should stay.

THey wanted to ahve the EXACT result that you guys keep complaining .THey want less safety for 0.0 ratters. They want that vast empty space becorme more dangerous and that controlling a territory menas being covered by eyes of a complex intel netwrok.

You can't run from smartbombs, but you could also try doing literally anything other than fleet-warping yourselves unscouted from gate to gate all the way across a region if you want to avoid them. It's not like you don't know the possibility of it exists or something and if you take basic proactive measures you can completely avoid it. The only way for you to end up in a pile on top of the Disco Tempest is to put yourselves there.

Anyways, your problem isn't that Ishtars are too hard to catch, because your frigates are still perfectly capable of that and half of them are probably literally AFK anyways. Your problem is that defense fleets are too effective and now it's not mechanically impossible for them to catch you. Why do you think a group of PvP pilots actively seeking to defend their own space shouldn't be able to do so?

Overall the Rubicon Interceptor rebalance was a smashing success. We're very happy with the player reaction, with the gameplay involved in flying Interceptors, and with the effect on other areas of EVE.

But you are able to defend yourself. You are able to get rid of us. You are able to catch the uncatchable maledictions. Smartbombs and elaborate baits. You can't bait, because your baits are terribly obvious and you can't smartbomb either, because for some reason, coordinating more than two people seems to be an impossible feat for your FCs.

Again, why should the ship get nerfed? There's a simple, easy to use counter, not our fault if you lack the skill to pull it off.

Please explain to me how you would bait a ship that goes 4km/sec, aligns out in three seconds with the MWD running, and has no reason to be closer than the edge of its 30km point range. That's enough to keep them safe from everything but range-bonused neuts and recon hard tackle, all of which come on hulls that will be immediately obvious on dscan (or have a 5 second targeting delay upon decloaking). Inline Smartbombs are trivially easy to avoid with even the most basic preventive steps, so if you're trying to pass them off as some sort of inescapable hard counter then I'm not the one who looks bad. Hell, if we could spend the entire Fountain War bouncing Caracals around to avoid RnK Pipebombs you can do the same thing in your bubble-immune 8AU/sec frigates.


Again, you aren't complaining about catching ratters. You're complaining that you might now have to interact with a defense gang other than trolling them in local as you breeze past them. Why do you feel entitled to hunt in hostile space without the possibility of reprisal from the locals? Beyond that, explain to me why a ratter who is at the keyboard, reads intel channels, and reacts quickly to threats deserves to die, or why you think people would rat at all if they couldn't protect themselves?

Every interceptor should have their own strengths and weaknesses that make the decision of which to fly interesting.
The Crow has excellent damage application at long ranges (even when it is flying at high speeds), four very valuable midslots and the longest lock range of any interceptor. It's weaknesses are a bit less speed than most others, lower theoretical top end damage, as well as slightly weaker agility.

The Crow is a Fleet Interceptor, a tackle ship. If it's overpowered (it is) the nerf should come to its damage application, not to its main function. Why does it need damage application? It's not an assault frigate or a combat frigate. Nerfing its agility while keeping it with high damage projection just makes it another in a long list of generic dps ships that a player will choose more or less randomly.

I think you're missing the difference between "can run gatecamps" and "mechanically uncatchable". Covops ships can run gate camps, but doing so involves risk, effort, and interactive gameplay between the campers and the person running it. More importantly it's not guaranteed; a skilled decloaker has a reasonable chance of catching their target, especially with the new ability to drop a second or third bubble on top of them.

That's not at all the same thing as a ship that ignores bubbles and warps faster than the server will allow you to activate a module on them.

I think you're missing the difference between "can run gatecamps" and "mechanically uncatchable". Covops ships can run gate camps, but doing so involves risk, effort, and interactive gameplay between the campers and the person running it. More importantly it's not guaranteed; a skilled decloaker has a reasonable chance of catching their target, especially with the new ability to drop a second or third bubble on top of them.

That's not at all the same thing as a ship that ignores bubbles and warps faster than the server will allow you to activate a module on them.

Also, i wish Goons didn't have so much control over CCP. CCP's submission to them is making it a worse place for everyone else.

Yeah but in empire, covops are totally pvp-immune.

CCP why did you decide to add the ability to overheat sensor boosters, AND nerf interceptor agility at the same time?

I know people like to say that certain ships are 'the flavour of the month', but literally giving a shipclass a month of usefulness like this is ridiculous.

Because overheating sensor boosters wouldn't have done anything if the ships can already align faster than is possible to catch them even with a million or more scan res. Server ticks > Overheating SeBos.

But don't act like they weren't already in high demand for fleets. Every major fleet would gladly have taken multiple interceptors for perches and fast tackle before the change just because they could do it faster and often better than a T1 counterpart. Now the ships get entire fleets devoted to only interceptors because they are so strong at avoiding damage while picking off targets in large fights. Them losing a little agility will not be the end of the world and it brings them back down to earth.

Because overheating sensor boosters wouldn't have done anything if the ships can already align faster than is possible to catch them even with a million or more scan res. Server ticks > Overheating SeBos.

But don't act like they weren't already in high demand for fleets. Every major fleet would gladly have taken multiple interceptors for perches and fast tackle before the change just because they could do it faster and often better than a T1 counterpart. Now the ships get entire fleets devoted to only interceptors because they are so strong at avoiding damage while picking off targets in large fights. Them losing a little agility will not be the end of the world and it brings them back down to earth.

Remote sebo'ed frigates can already catch our 1.9ish align time maledictions.

No they can't and you're absolutely delusional if you truly believe that. If they DO happen to get caught, it is due to pilot error on the Malediction's part.

No they can't and you're absolutely delusional if you truly believe that. If they DO happen to get caught, it is due to pilot error on the Malediction's part.

Two way street bro. It's just pilot error you guys aren't catching us and adapting.

I'm going to use that excuse more. Pilot error. I like that.

Pods have an align less than that, a smaller sig, and can be caught, it's just a matter of luck at some point.

You absolutely cannot tell me that you don't have modeling software that works just like EFT to test your proposed changes, and get a numerical value about warp times

They actually use pyfa

Pods warp in 0.08 seconds.

Rubicon: "There's no turning back." Apparently there is.

"Tactics to chip away at the behemoths have surfaced, allowing small fleets of troublemakers to become a concern for alliance strongholds."

We embraced the change, and this is how you repay us.

I must say I have never understood this idea that gate camps must, on principle, be able to stop absolutely everything that comes through regardless of the skill of the pilot or nature of the ship.

Maybe CCP should just give SOV owners some sort of null-concord style NPC protection and be done with it.

Literally none of this argument is about the actual act of killing ratters. Nobody here cares if ratters die when a combat ship catches them. The entire complaint from TEST is now that our defense gangs might actually be able to interfere with them in our own space.

Rubicon: "There's no turning back." Apparently there is.

no ship should be uncatchable.

But doesn't that get you those sought after fights?

This balance needs to come from the interceptors' combat strength, not their tackling ability. An interceptor's primary job is to catch things and pin them down, not to kill things. With this in mind the nerf should come in form of reduced damage.

This would lead to fleets that combine fast, agile interceptors to catch enemies with other frigates (such as assault frigs) to deliver the damage.

Again, I repeat my last post, don't down on missile interceptors and kill their ability to tackle and hold a point by reducing their agility. They are already paper thin and don't do much DPS. Why are we even revisiting this original change when CCP has bigger things to figure out like sov mechanics, POS quality of living, and other ships to still rebalance. Why are we as players/customers getting features we DO NOT want and DO NOT need? All these changes cause MORE problems rather than solve anything. These new changes serve only to break more things in this game.

Pods aren't bubble immune.

Post patch, you will have 3 options:
*Cheap 1.9s Ceptor that has bad DPS/Survivability from tons of Istabs blooming its sig and taking fitting slots
*Regular Ceptors that will be 2.1s+ and be tacklable buy resbo camps, your tackle orbit may be a bit worse, but very minimally so
*Really expensive sub 1.9s that are still decent at doing ceptor things (but not as good as the cheap 2.1s+ ceptors) require perfect skills, and end up costing 200m+ after fittings and implants

Nor Smartbomb imune... And How about put FoF missiles some use???

And it just so happens that many people have been using 1.9s align time Maledictions to harass and kill otherwise unkillable nullsec ratters, most dominantly Goon ones. And now they're getting nerfed hardcore, making them unusable for that task entirely. :tinfoil:

I can probably maintain 1.9 on my travel 'ceptors by replacing one or more nanos with istabs.

I have no real issue with the content of this change.

The main problem is the apparent reason ... that whiney null bears got upset and threw tantrums.

And this it what we got in Rubicon 1.0.



I'm confused. So you made them more agile 3 month ago, and now you are reverting the changes to:

Claw, align time 4.8 from 4.57 from 4.82. What?

Stiletto, align time 4.95 from 4.38 from 4.73. Really?

What I see proposed here is making Inties worse shuttes AND worse Interceptors, which is bad. Please reconsider the latter, thank you.

Sounds like a good reason to nerf them

Problem: ceptors are going deep into Goon space getting past their camps and killing their ratters.

Fix: just remove bubble immunity

I'm still not seeing why this change is the least bit necessary.

I get that it's bad to have uncatchable interceptors. So why not just revert on the bubble immunity? I honestly don''t mind dying in a well-planned gate camp.

What I do mind is being terrible at tackling things because my ship turns like a lethargic elephant at high speeds.

Oh I get it.

Goon tears.

Guess you'll have to nerf titans cause goons are to scared to take those out.

PL blowing up the goons, can't have goons crying.

as risky as hisec

bullet proof "no-one gets through without our say so" gates :D

You know what would be bad-ass? If you let inties keep their agility and instead split anchorable and dictor/hic bubbles into different categories, and then gave interceptors immunity to the anchorable variety. It would let inties blow past static defenses, but would leave active interference (gate camps, carefully-positioned and -timed hic/dic drag bubbles, etc) effective against them.

While you're at it, you can apply the same stat to T3 nullifier subsystems.

This is clearly the best idea, since there's no good reason for EVE ships to be categorically immune to other players' active, directed attempts to stop them.

Agility goes up.

Align time goes up.

Sounds legit.

Someone fail math? Or just plain lack of logic.

Bueller. Bueller.

Ok, I'll give you a hint. Agility reduces align time.

Agility (as a modifier on mass) affects the turning time (often measured as align time) of ships. Lower is better.
The align times listed below are for a hypothetical character with 0 skills.

You know what would be bad-ass? If you let inties keep their agility and instead split anchorable and dictor/hic bubbles into different categories, and then gave interceptors immunity to the anchorable variety. It would let inties blow past static defenses, but would leave active interference (gate camps, carefully-positioned and -timed hic/dic drag bubbles, etc) effective against them.

While you're at it, you can apply the same stat to T3 nullifier subsystems.

This is clearly the best idea, since there's no good reason for EVE ships to be categorically immune to other players' active, directed attempts to stop them.

This would be an epic change.

The answer is in the first post, I'll quote it for you but basically they do mass * agility = align_time.

I'm still not seeing why this change is the least bit necessary.

Yeah that extra fifth of a second of align time is really going to mess with your tackling

The problem with interceptors is their interdiction nullification, not their agility. Give them their agility back and remove their bubble immunity.

My 5 cents:
I think CCP absolutely misses the point here. I have flown a lot with the malediction this month and it is a great ship.
But main issue here aren-¦t intys but intys with links. It was and is still the same problem like it was with kitey condors:
Kiters + Skirmish links = OP.
Interceptors + Skirmish links = completely OP.
Examples:

-The low signature radius of interceptors makes them already very hard to hit with the usual counter called light missiles.
I was soloing a light missile fitted heretic in a malediction without skirmish links and no implants. Okay the guy tried to shot me with furies but if he would have taken usual cal navy ammo I would have probably been forced to run. The light fury missiles almost didn-¦t hit a male that orbits at 21km with 5.1k m/s.

-There is a well know corp who is almost only flying interceptors with loki and Tengu booster.
Grab 5 Raptors, 2 ogb, every Raptor has sensor damp.... --->unkillable.
I have tried it with fof rapid light caracals. We tried it with 3 fof rapid light caras.... No way. The only outcome were dead caras. They even didn-¦t need to run. They simply killed us.
Combination of skirmish links + interceptor point range + interceptor speed + interceptor sig radius = almost completely immune to missiles. Yes the missiles did hit. But the damage in combination of speed+ sig radius was a total joke.
You say snipe them with nado from 120km? Also doesn-¦t hit. We tried it^^. Forget even sentries. Too low sig radius and speed.
Arty Thrasher? Hahaha. 5 fully tech2 fitted 280mm arty thrashers couldn-¦t kill even one at optimal range^^ (we tried to alpha them before they got damps on us).

So the agility tweak will fix... nothing!
Really CCp you miss again the point. Main issue here is the combination of interceptors and off grid boosters and not the interceptor itself.


edit: I bet I will get flamed to death from people who don-¦t even know how to undock a shuttle without ogb veeeeeeery fast.

off grid boosting need to be fixed, period.
ceptors with link only work if you stay in in one system if you want to roam links are a no go because you will lose the main strength of ceptors

Why do you think it is always the same: Neutral loki and tengu jump in system and then the ceptors. Always the same...

My 5 cents:
I think CCP absolutely misses the point here. I have flown a lot with the malediction this month and it is a great ship.
But main issue here aren-¦t intys but intys with links. It was and is still the same problem like it was with kitey condors:
Kiters + Skirmish links = OP.
Interceptors + Skirmish links = completely OP.
Examples:

-The low signature radius of interceptors makes them already very hard to hit with the usual counter called light missiles.
I was soloing a light missile fitted heretic in a malediction without skirmish links and no implants. Okay the guy tried to shot me with furies but if he would have taken usual cal navy ammo I would have probably been forced to run. The light fury missiles almost didn-¦t hit a male that orbits at 21km with 5.1k m/s.

-There is a well know corp who is almost only flying interceptors with loki and Tengu booster.
Grab 5 Raptors, 2 ogb, every Raptor has sensor damp.... --->unkillable.
I have tried it with fof rapid light caracals. We tried it with 3 fof rapid light caras.... No way. The only outcome were dead caras. They even didn-¦t need to run. They simply killed us.
Combination of skirmish links + interceptor point range + interceptor speed + interceptor sig radius = almost completely immune to missiles. Yes the missiles did hit. But the damage in combination of speed+ sig radius was a total joke.
You say snipe them with nado from 120km? Also doesn-¦t hit. We tried it^^. Forget even sentries. Too low sig radius and speed.
Arty Thrasher? Hahaha. 5 fully tech2 fitted 280mm arty thrashers couldn-¦t kill even one at optimal range^^ (we tried to alpha them before they got damps on us).

So the agility tweak will fix... nothing!
Really CCp you miss again the point. Main issue here is the combination of interceptors and off grid boosters and not the interceptor itself.


edit: I bet I will get flamed to death from people who don-¦t even know how to undock a shuttle without ogb veeeeeeery fast.

My 5 cents:
I think CCP absolutely misses the point here. I have flown a lot with the malediction this month and it is a great ship.
But main issue here aren-¦t intys but intys with links. It was and is still the same problem like it was with kitey condors:
Kiters + Skirmish links = OP.
Interceptors + Skirmish links = completely OP.
Examples:

-The low signature radius of interceptors makes them already very hard to hit with the usual counter called light missiles.
I was soloing a light missile fitted heretic in a malediction without skirmish links and no implants. Okay the guy tried to shot me with furies but if he would have taken usual cal navy ammo I would have probably been forced to run. The light fury missiles almost didn-¦t hit a male that orbits at 21km with 5.1k m/s.

-There is a well know corp who is almost only flying interceptors with loki and Tengu booster.
Grab 5 Raptors, 2 ogb, every Raptor has sensor damp.... --->unkillable.
I have tried it with fof rapid light caracals. We tried it with 3 fof rapid light caras.... No way. The only outcome were dead caras. They even didn-¦t need to run. They simply killed us.
Combination of skirmish links + interceptor point range + interceptor speed + interceptor sig radius = almost completely immune to missiles. Yes the missiles did hit. But the damage in combination of speed+ sig radius was a total joke.
You say snipe them with nado from 120km? Also doesn-¦t hit. We tried it^^. Forget even sentries. Too low sig radius and speed.
Arty Thrasher? Hahaha. 5 fully tech2 fitted 280mm arty thrashers couldn-¦t kill even one at optimal range^^ (we tried to alpha them before they got damps on us).

So the agility tweak will fix... nothing!
Really CCp you miss again the point. Main issue here is the combination of interceptors and off grid boosters and not the interceptor itself.


edit: I bet I will get flamed to death from people who don-¦t even know how to undock a shuttle without ogb veeeeeeery fast.

Makes it too easy to run away by dropping bubbles behind you as you flee.

You shot the wrong ship with the nado... probe out the booster tengu/loki, which will likely have under 20k ehp, which works out to 2 1400 nados...

nerf them more.
approve.

The idea is not terrible.. just maybe on the wrong ship.

Bubble immunity is utterly irrelevant. Bubbles need more ships that counter their effects, not less, and putting that aside, the issue with interceptors, especially missle ceptors, is that they can point and kite at a sweet spot range where anything that can shoot that far cant apply damage, and anything with a chance to apply damage to a ship that small and fast cant shoot that far. Even Warrior 2s just get blapped off the field.

Taking away bubble immunity does nothing about this. Furthermore, it does nothing to make interceptors catchable in lowsec, where they zoom about with the same impunity, but where bubbles dont work at all!

Interceptors escaping bubbles and gate camps isnt the problem that effortlessly holding point while evading all return fire and never risking being caught by return tackle is. Points dont matter, they dont slow the ceptor at all, and it never need come in range of a scram or web. Even bonused versions, the interceptor is so fast it can simply fly out of range before a Rapier can lock and apply webs.

And ... as mentioned ... why do "Interceptors" get less agility than their companion T1 Frig?

"This, along with superior maneuverability and speed" from the description - is absolute bollox.

Less time i checked T1 frigates didn't have Interdiction Nullifiers on it.

Learn to READ numbnuts.

Was talking about agility NOT nullification.

You are member of the two iq club aren't you?

Less time i checked T1 frigates didn't have Interdiction Nullifiers on it.

The obvious solution is to get rid of the Interdiction Nullification then. I'm not against the idea, but it would be better suited for a different ship class while keeping Interceptors (especially Fleet Interceptors) for their intended role. Unfortunately that would require CCP to publicly back down from an earlier descision, which is why I doubt the sensible route will be taken here.

I think this change has made it easier for them to catch my intershuttler on the gate like a stiletto tried to kill me the other day and I couldn't warp off like I could before. Is this intendid?

Dear CCP Fozzie.
Thank you for breaking this **** even more.
I just saw that ceptors and especially linked ones are really completely invulnerable to missiles.
By nerfing agility you only hit unlinked ceptors, the linkd ones won-¦t get hurt.

Goddam that idiotic "get more alts because we broke the game too much to get new players in" game.

The obvious solution is to get rid of the Interdiction Nullification then. I'm not against the idea, but it would be better suited for a different ship class while keeping Interceptors (especially Fleet Interceptors) for their intended role. Unfortunately that would require CCP to publicly back down from an earlier descision, which is why I doubt the sensible route will be taken here.

This rubicon interceptor buff is one of the worst modification CCP has made so far...

How about we rename the game to: Interceptors Online ? Since it is almost the only ship you see roaming the null sec.

Interceptors have now become extremely versatiles, they are frequently used as: fleet roams, cyno ship, transport ships for extremely valuable items, scout and... oh yes, tacklers!

And this will only get worst once more people decide to train prop jamming...

And please don't think I'm lazy... my friends and I have been trying to find the perfect way to counter this stupid ship. We can catch a few from time to time, probably when the other pilot gets lagged out or something.

Remoted inties with 5000 scan resolution has 1 chance out of 5 to catch one?

Smartbomb BS seems the way to go but then you can only hope to catch inties and covops and pray not to lose 1 bs/night.

When 80% of people in null sec suddenly use inties, you know somethings wrong.

This. As it stands they are virtually uncatchable, even with sensor boosts etc. Stupidly easy to get a cyno into system now.

This rubicon interceptor buff is one of the worst modification CCP has made so far...

How about we rename the game to: Interceptors Online ? Since it is almost the only ship you see roaming the null sec.

Interceptors have now become extremely versatiles, they are frequently used as: fleet roams, cyno ship, transport ships for extremely valuable items, scout and... oh yes, tacklers!

And this will only get worst once more people decide to train prop jamming...

And please don't think I'm lazy... my friends and I have been trying to find the perfect way to counter this stupid ship. We can catch a few from time to time, probably when the other pilot gets lagged out or something.

Remoted inties with 5000 scan resolution has 1 chance out of 5 to catch one?

Smartbomb BS seems the way to go but then you can only hope to catch inties and covops and pray not to lose 1 bs/night.

When 80% of people in null sec suddenly use inties, you know somethings wrong.