that is less a function of raw damage as it is a function of shooting at the EM hole that most Guristas ratting ships have

Because that would have a tangible effect on the game, which is exactly what the warp speed bonus is trying to avoid.

Edit: also what good the warp speed bonus will bring? the need for an all Cynabal fleet in order to use that speed bonus in roams?

Hahahahahha, I like your sarcasm man! :)

nice straw man argument. the point range bonus would be awesome for the whole angel line as it would go naturally with kiting tactics. the problem with the current point ranges (except faction) is that they are not scaling well with kiters, the sweet spot is at the limit of point range and you can easily lose the target with such an extremly narrow range for errors.

Edit: also what good the warp speed bonus will bring? the need for an all Cynabal fleet in order to use that speed bonus in roams?

So you don't see the advantage to a roaming party to have a fast cruiser or two that is very survivable be able to warp ahead of their prey and catch them on the other side of the gate? It would easily be able to hold most ships for the few seconds it would take for the rest of the group to get there.

My remark was indeed sarcastic, but I think it's actually pretty accurate as to what's happening here.

I would love to see a point bonus on the Cynabal TBH.

So pointing out that according to your own reasoning the bonus being proposed is useless is a straw man argument? So sticking to the topic and addressing the weaknesses of the bonus directly is a misdirection of the argument over that very same bonus?

they would have too increase its falloff and damage bonus too make a 30-35km worth it

The words are English, but beyond that, I don't even...

Rather than a range bonus to disruptors on Angel ships, they should get a strength bonus to disruptors and scrams. +1 would do nicely. Note that this would not turn a disruptor into a scram (still would need a scram to disable MWD), but would make the Angel ships better at holding those who do not want to be held.

I think players will start jamming/td'ing/other ewar'ing Gila drones.

What? Seriously? Do you ever, or have you ever bothered to actually fly any of these ships?

Great at least Angels have some reason to actually fly them. There's no reason to fly a Sansha boat. It's just a ****** shield zealot with more cap problems, and a slower top speed, that can't even sig tank because lol shields.

I should have known the ships that are never flown would continue to be never flown.

Serpentis, sure keep the web bonus we think/admit is broken.
Angels, sure get a unique warp speed buff in addition to your superb combat ability
Guristas, Here, have ridiculously powerful drones
Sisters, Here have covert ops cloak, woo.

Sansha, uhh, you're ******. Here have a useless AB bonus that makes you slower than any MWD cruiser who might be chasing you. And a signature that's still bigger than any other AB cruiser, and a weak tracking bonus so you can't even orbit your own targets and apply full damage. Cool story bro. At least you're interesting and unique!

ASHIMMU
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 208(+33) / .58 / 11010000 / 5.01s

so you're admitting that the point range would be completely wasted on the cynabal

why have it then

This is one of those things that sounds great on paper but will not be so great in practice. We're talking about edge cases. Do you put warp speed rigs on your pvp cruiser?

Time to speculate about Pirate battleships since this is going around in circles...

GÇó Machariel ... 3.0 AU/s warp speed confirmed, but does it finally get the 8th missing turret?
GÇó Nightmare ... Almost certainly to get the afterburner bonus and bump to laser damage.
GÇó Vindicator ... Probably no changes (we hope).
GÇó Bhalgorn ... Infinite Energy Vampire and web range bonus.
GÇó Rattlesnake ... +50% thermal/kinetic missile damage (loses missile velocity bonus), bandwidth reduced to 50mbit and gets a big +% bonus to heavy and sentry drone durability and hit points, and a bonus to heavy drone speed
GÇó Nestor ... Covert Ops cloak!

- Machariel - No thanks, I like my utility high. Unless they're doing it as a pure buff without taking away from another bonus, which is incredibly unlikely.

- Rattlesnake - I get a sneaking feeling that they're going to give that big tasty bonus to only heavy drones and not to sentries, 'cause that seems to be the road they're taking with the guristas ships. Heavy drone speed buff would be nice, but not holding my breath.

- Nestor - No way will it get a cov ops cloak and probably won't be touched by this balance pass. Devs have previously stated that if ANY BS ever gets a covops cloak, it will be the T2 Black Ops battleships who will be first in line. Honestly, Nestor is a solid ship now, just too expensive to see widespread use.

With the Machariel I'd rather see a +37.5% ROF for the roll bonus, drop one of the turrets and high slots and grant it another low slot. You're probably right on the Rattlesnake. I wouldn't exactly all the Nestor a "solid ship", because it's not all that effective for half the current price...

- Nestor - No way will it get a cov ops cloak and probably won't be touched by this balance pass. Devs have previously stated that if ANY BS ever gets a covops cloak, it will be the T2 Black Ops battleships who will be first in line. Honestly, Nestor is a solid ship now, just too expensive to see widespread use.

At what price does the Nestor become viable for widespread use??
Would 1 bil see it right? Of course less is better but how much less?

How about 1.3 bil for a vindicator, or a Machariel for 1.1, do they suddenly lose appeal and no longer see widespread use?

The current suggested ideal price for the Nestor is being touted as around 450 ml, 2/3rds less than its current asking price and around the same price as a Stratios.

Considering CCP had a pretty clear picture, due to LP value, of the price the Nestor would sell for at the time they released it.
Did CCP just get it wrong or (more likely) is the Nestor not living up to player expectations.
TQ residents have very clear ideas on what they want from a ship in a given situation and the price of the ship rarely if ever comes into it. If a particular ship meets my needs I will buy it, price is secondary.
So simply saying if it were cheaper it would be good, is tantamount to saying - It is not the best ship to meet my needs. It is not in the right place.

Solid, it may be. Taking cost out of the equation, is it the best for the job i want it for. If it is, cost does not matter.

At what price does the Nestor become viable for widespread use??

In the vast majority of situations, a Bhaalgorn will do a much better job than a neut 'geddon, unless you REALLY need that extra 10km range. It can neut harder and hit harder. The fact is that the 'geddon does a good job for about a quarter of the price. It isn't the best for the job, but it's perfectly suitable for the job.

I have a Nestor that reps about 25% more than a standard guardian out to 25km, does around 750dps out to 30km, has 125k EHP and is cap stable running everything except the propulsion mod (and still has a cap booster in case of scary neuts). All that in one hull is what I'd call a solid ship. It's just so damned expensive that it's a painful loss and a huge target for all manner of ganks and hotdrops.

With the Machariel I'd rather see a +37.5% ROF for the roll bonus, drop one of the turrets and high slots and grant it another low slot. You're probably right on the Rattlesnake. I wouldn't exactly all the Nestor a "solid ship", because it's not all that effective for half the current price...

Great on paper. Such a pity that it takes 50% longer to lock so that by the time you have locked the Guardian has made up that difference, and that the sig size more than negates the EHP levels. And that 25km is less than half the range of a Guardian and far closer than you want to be to close range DPS ships to give reps.