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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |

PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
1533
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 21:39:00 -
[31] - Quote
Andski wrote:PLEX prices are high because of speculators, not because a bunch of players suddenly decided to start using PLEX for their accounts. It's an unfortunate consequence of CCP introducing PLEX as a convenient alternative to GTC trading and as a foundation for monetized perks like multiple character training. This doesn't look like speculation to me. Speculation could be a local spike from 700 million to 740 million back to 700 million.
The linked market dictate indicates sustained and reasonably linear growth in Plex price over the course of a year from ~550 million one year ago to ~710 million+ today. That looks far more like demand is outpacing supply by a bit and eroding into the existing plex stockpiles. |

Erufen Rito
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
161
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 21:48:00 -
[32] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:It's not a certainty that PLEX being bought and sold on the market within EvE is new plex recently bought for $20.
Increasing the price of PLEX has 2 benefits for CCP.
1) it raises the ISK subscription fee resulting in more people needing to continue their ability to stay within EVE with subscription purchases with real money, which real money benefits CCP.
2) Because the PLEX is more lucrative due to it's having a higher ISK worth, more people are willing to pay CCP real money to buy PLEX to then turn into ISK, which results in CCP getting more money from people buying more PLEX to sell for ISK.
If Plex were worth only 300mil ISK, more people would be subbing to EvE with plex rather than money, which would result in less money for CCP. Eventually, through the PLEX disappearing through use of pilots licenses, they would become scarce resulting in them raising in isk and worth over time. And since $20 would only be buying 300mil ISK, less people would be buying PLEX since at that time, $20 = 300mil isk.
It's very obvious that PLEX being worth more ISK benefits CCP.
The question of the matter though, is CCP manipulating the worth of PLEX behind the scenes to benefit themselves? Which if they were, IMO, would be perfectly acceptable since ultimately they are a business providing a service. This only applies under the scenario in which PLEX is NPC seeded, which it isn't. Every single plex in the market was placed for sale by a player, that paid real money for it. This is as nice as I get. Best quote ever https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4137165#post4137165 |

Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
471
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 22:04:00 -
[33] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote: higher PLEX prices? Yes. They noticed more people not using subs, and a drop in income because people don't want to pay for all this feature-less "development" (lol "expansions") and they are using their own methods to force us into paying them more money. It's a cash grab, pure and simple.
Are you buying into it? You do realize somebody had to pay for those right? No matter what happens after they are bought somebody is paying for someone else's subscription at a higher price. So when lots of people use plex to play EVE instead of paid subs, CCP makes more money, not less. PLEX doesn't spawn on it's own and can't be made in game so it is always paid for, by someone. |

Slade Trillgon
Brutor Force Federated
2706
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 22:07:00 -
[34] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:When looking for the source of a problem, you need to look at the intersection of who profits from the problem and who can enable the problem to occur.
Do regular subscribers benefit from high PLEX prices? No. Do subscribers with PLEX benefit from higher PLEX prices? Hell no. Do people who buy PLEX to fund their activities benefit from higher PLEX prices? Yes, but how are they going to drive PLEX prices up?
Does CCP benefit from higher PLEX prices? Yes. They noticed more people not using subs, and a drop in income because people don't want to pay for all this feature-less "development" (lol "expansions") and they are using their own methods to force us into paying them more money. It's a cash grab, pure and simple.
Are you buying into it?
I have been suspect of game developers actively participating in EvE's economy from early on.
Do I believe that is it is officially directed?
No.
Do I think this is wrong?
No. As long as the they isk they use to manipulate the market is acquired legitimately. A non-dev trader would fill the spot if not. That is so because the price is really a representation of supply and demand.
Now if the individual was buying up plex with illegitimate isk and then trashing them, that would be a problem, but I am utterly too tired to reach for my :tinfoil: |

Divine Entervention
Abyss Cooperative 3
350
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 22:16:00 -
[35] - Quote
Erufen Rito wrote: This only applies under the scenario in which PLEX is NPC seeded, which it isn't. Every single plex in the market was placed for sale by a player, that paid real money for it.
No, it doesn't. I even explain that since people have to buy PLEX for it to exist, that it causes a desire for PLEX to be worth more isk to justify the investment of real money to make the isk return worth it.
Also, it could be construed that PLEX is NPC seeded because no one builds the PLEX, CCP materializes the ISK out of thin air upon it's purchase.
No one creates the PLEX other than CCP. If CCP didn't create PLEX, it wouldn't exist within EVE. Proof of lying in thread.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4349703#post4349703 |

Divine Entervention
Abyss Cooperative 3
350
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 22:20:00 -
[36] - Quote
Slade Trillgon wrote:
Now if the individual was buying up plex with illegitimate isk and then trashing them, that would be a problem, but I am utterly too tired to reach for my :tinfoil:
This COULD be happening. It is POSSIBLE that CCP creates "throw away" accounts to buy PLEX from the market with instantly materialized through GM/DEV code, without the work put in to generate the ISK, and then delete it to remove the supply and lower cost PLEX to leave the remaining PLEX at a higher, more desireable for CCP price.
Proof of lying in thread.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4349703#post4349703 |

Joshua Foiritain
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
671
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 22:23:00 -
[37] - Quote
OP proves hes the most retarded person to play this game. Congratulations dude.
Coreli Corporation: Small gang PVP & Drug Production, Apply now! |

Caleb Seremshur
Capital Storm. Black Flag Society
228
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 22:23:00 -
[38] - Quote
Hevymetal wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:When looking for the source of a problem, you need to look at the intersection of who profits from the problem and who can enable the problem to occur.
Do regular subscribers benefit from high PLEX prices? No. Do subscribers with PLEX benefit from higher PLEX prices? Hell no. Do people who buy PLEX to fund their activities benefit from higher PLEX prices? Yes, but how are they going to drive PLEX prices up?
Does CCP benefit from higher PLEX prices? Yes. They noticed more people not using subs, and a drop in income because people don't want to pay for all this feature-less "development" (lol "expansions") and they are using their own methods to force us into paying them more money. It's a cash grab, pure and simple.
Are you buying into it? As I said in another thread high PLEX prices are due to: demand > supply, basic economics, no conspiracy here.
There probably used to be a considerable surplus. What we're looking at is probably the tail end of the lag in consumption produced by multiple character training and all the other things. I wonder if the supply of plex producers has remained static and that the consumers haven't necessarily grown just merely been enough to consume at a higher rate than they're generated?
Also the latest price hike is timed around the aftermath of B-R. I wouldn't put it past the big players trying to squeeze the market a little bit by buying up plex to drive its inflation up. Unless mineral prices are increasing at a similar rate then this hypothetical plex driver stands to make a lot of money on the way up... and probably even more on the way down. The kind of person who benefits from plex manipulation typically would have the backing to do it. LP store weapon cost rebalance |

masternerdguy
Dominion Task Force
1702
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 22:24:00 -
[39] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Slade Trillgon wrote:
Now if the individual was buying up plex with illegitimate isk and then trashing them, that would be a problem, but I am utterly too tired to reach for my :tinfoil:
This COULD be happening. It is POSSIBLE that CCP creates "throw away" accounts to buy PLEX from the market with instantly materialized through GM/DEV code, without the work put in to generate the ISK, and then delete it to remove the supply of lower priced PLEX to leave the remaining PLEX at a higher, more desireable for CCP price.
I bet you believe in Chemtrails too. Things are only impossible until they are not. |

PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
1533
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 22:25:00 -
[40] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Slade Trillgon wrote:
Now if the individual was buying up plex with illegitimate isk and then trashing them, that would be a problem, but I am utterly too tired to reach for my :tinfoil:
This COULD be happening. It is POSSIBLE that CCP creates "throw away" accounts to buy PLEX from the market with instantly materialized through GM/DEV code, without the work put in to generate the ISK, and then delete it to remove the supply of lower priced PLEX to leave the remaining PLEX at a higher, more desireable for CCP price. I see someone's trained Tin Foil Hat Construction to V. Good for you, never know when those satellites will try to steal your thoughts. |

Divine Entervention
Abyss Cooperative 3
350
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 22:26:00 -
[41] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:
I bet you believe in Chemtrails too.
Why would you say that? Proof of lying in thread.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4349703#post4349703 |

Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
4703
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 22:26:00 -
[42] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Slade Trillgon wrote:
Now if the individual was buying up plex with illegitimate isk and then trashing them, that would be a problem, but I am utterly too tired to reach for my :tinfoil:
This COULD be happening. It is POSSIBLE that CCP creates "throw away" accounts to buy PLEX from the market with instantly materialized through GM/DEV code, without the work put in to generate the ISK, and then delete it to remove the supply of lower priced PLEX to leave the remaining PLEX at a higher, more desireable for CCP price. I bet you believe in Chemtrails too.
Hey! You can actually see a chemtrail. 
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
21081
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 22:27:00 -
[43] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Also, it could be construed that PLEX is NPC seeded because no one builds the PLEX, CCP materializes the ISK out of thin air upon it's purchase. That doesn't make it NPC seeded.
Quote: I even explain that since people have to buy PLEX for it to exist, that it causes a desire for PLEX to be worth more isk to justify the investment of real money to make the isk return worth it. GǪwhich only explains how players benefit from higher prices, not CCP. Your scenario still hinges on the notion that PLEX are seeded, which they're not. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
1534
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 22:27:00 -
[44] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:masternerdguy wrote:
I bet you believe in Chemtrails too.
Why would you say that? Oh he does! Wow......stereotypes are amazing.  |

Divine Entervention
Abyss Cooperative 3
350
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 22:29:00 -
[45] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:masternerdguy wrote:
I bet you believe in Chemtrails too.
Why would you say that? Oh he does! Wow......stereotypes are amazing. 
Believing in something and understanding it's a possibility are 2 different things.
The inability to understand that is ignorance. Proof of lying in thread.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4349703#post4349703 |

Divine Entervention
Abyss Cooperative 3
350
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 22:31:00 -
[46] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Also, it could be construed that PLEX is NPC seeded because no one builds the PLEX, CCP materializes the ISK out of thin air upon it's purchase. That doesn't make it NPC seeded. Quote: I even explain that since people have to buy PLEX for it to exist, that it causes a desire for PLEX to be worth more isk to justify the investment of real money to make the isk return worth it. GǪwhich only explains how players benefit from higher prices, not CCP. Your scenario still hinges on the notion that PLEX are seeded, which they're not.
Where does PLEX come from? Proof of lying in thread.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4349703#post4349703 |

PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
1534
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 22:31:00 -
[47] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:masternerdguy wrote:
I bet you believe in Chemtrails too.
Why would you say that? Oh he does! Wow......stereotypes are amazing.  Believing in something and understanding it's a possibility are 2 different things. The inability to understand that is ignorance. :popcorn: |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
21081
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 22:33:00 -
[48] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Where does PLEX come from? Cash payments to CCP. No, no NPC is involved. No, they're not seeded. No, CCP does not miss out on money when people PLEX their accounts.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Divine Entervention
Abyss Cooperative 3
350
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 22:34:00 -
[49] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Where does PLEX come from? Cash payments to CCP. No, no NPC is involved. No, they're not seeded. No, CCP does not miss out on money when people PLEX their accounts.
So CCP creates the PLEX. Proof of lying in thread.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4349703#post4349703 |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
21081
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 22:35:00 -
[50] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:So CCP creates the PLEX.
Cut to the chase. Your hypothesis is still incorrect since it relies on a fundamental misunderstanding of how PLEX work. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Divine Entervention
Abyss Cooperative 3
350
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 22:39:00 -
[51] - Quote
So since CCP creates the PLEX, it is in their best interests to have PLEX be desirable enough to want to buy.
Buying PLEX equals money to CCP. PLEX worth more ISK makes PLEX more desirable to buy.
PLEX being bought because it's desirable equals more money for CCP. Proof of lying in thread.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4349703#post4349703 |

Volar Kang
Kang Industrial
139
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 22:39:00 -
[52] - Quote
Your logic is missing a few points...
1. Plex costs more than a months sub fee 2. CCP profits more from Plex than they do a monthly sub fee 3. CCP would actually like to see the in-game cost of Plex lower so more people pay with Plex.
I pay with Plex using isk which means I get a free month due to someone else paying MORE than my monthly sub fee. Why would CCP want to see me stop buying Plex by artificially raising the cost of it in the game?
|

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
21081
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 22:46:00 -
[53] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:So since CCP creates the PLEX, it is in their best interests to have PLEX be desirable enough to want to buy. GǪwhich means keeping the volumes up, which means keeping the PLEXing players around, which means keeping prices at levels that they can sustain. That's why they have a buffer of confiscated PLEXes that they can dip into to push prices down every now and then. If prices go too high, CCP loses money by the bucketload.
Quote:PLEX being bought because it's desirable equals more money for CCP. They were desirable at a quarter the current price. CCP doesn't particularly benefit from higher prices GÇö only the PLEX buyers do. It only equals more money for CCP if the volume of PLEX sales increases, and there's very little to suggest that this is happening. In anything, sales volumes seem to have tended downwards, which is a far more ready explanation for why the prices go up. This downward trend is, if anything, in spite of CCP's attempts to keep trade volumes high by reinjecting those confiscated PLEXes and keep prices low. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Divine Entervention
Abyss Cooperative 3
350
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 22:48:00 -
[54] - Quote
A PLEX costs $20. A subscription costs $15.
If a person is looking to sub his account using money, it's understandable that he's going to use the option that results in him paying less, being a $15 subscription costs. He COULD buy a PLEX for $20 and then immediately turn around and use it to sub his account, but IMO, that's a waste of $5 because he could've got the same product for 25% cheaper.
Now considering that it's more cost efficient for a player looking to subscribe his account using dollars to go with the cheaper option, the purpose of PLEX existing has to be taken into consideration.
That purpose is to sell PLEX for isk. If PLEX is worth 350million isk, it is less desireable than a PLEX being worth 700million ISK. Higher desirability potentially results in more PLEX being bought to get more value.
Cheap isk PLEX hurts CCP more than expensive isk PLEX, because cheaper isk PLEX is less desirable to purchase from CCP for $20 than a more expensive isk PLEX for $20. Proof of lying in thread.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4349703#post4349703 |

Slade Trillgon
Brutor Force Federated
2710
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 22:52:00 -
[55] - Quote
:head explodes: |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
21081
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 22:54:00 -
[56] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Cheap isk PLEX hurts CCP more than expensive isk PLEX, because cheaper isk PLEX is less desirable to purchase from CCP for $20 than a more expensive isk PLEX for $20. No, they're not. Again, they were desirable at a quarter the price and there is nothing to suggest that the higher prices has stimulated higher purchase volumes. And if anything, lower ISK prices on PLEX means people will have to buy more of them to get the money they need, which translates into more sales for CCP.
But at least you figured out why more accounts PLEXing is beneficial to them. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
471
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 22:55:00 -
[57] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:A PLEX costs $20. A subscription costs $15.
If a person is looking to sub his account using money, it's understandable that he's going to use the option that results in him paying less, being a $15 subscription costs. He COULD buy a PLEX for $20 and then immediately turn around and use it to sub his account, but IMO, that's a waste of $5 because he could've got the same product for 25% cheaper.
Now considering that it's more cost efficient for a player looking to subscribe his account using dollars to go with the cheaper option, the purpose of PLEX existing has to be taken into consideration.
That purpose is to sell PLEX for isk. If PLEX is worth 350million isk, it is less desireable than a PLEX being worth 700million ISK. Higher desirability potentially results in more PLEX being bought to get more value.
Cheap isk PLEX hurts CCP more than expensive isk PLEX, because cheaper isk PLEX is less desirable to purchase from CCP for $20 than a more expensive isk PLEX for $20. What high school did you go to? I think I need to slap whoever gave you a diploma |

PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
1537
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 22:57:00 -
[58] - Quote
Rowells wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:A PLEX costs $20. A subscription costs $15.
If a person is looking to sub his account using money, it's understandable that he's going to use the option that results in him paying less, being a $15 subscription costs. He COULD buy a PLEX for $20 and then immediately turn around and use it to sub his account, but IMO, that's a waste of $5 because he could've got the same product for 25% cheaper.
Now considering that it's more cost efficient for a player looking to subscribe his account using dollars to go with the cheaper option, the purpose of PLEX existing has to be taken into consideration.
That purpose is to sell PLEX for isk. If PLEX is worth 350million isk, it is less desireable than a PLEX being worth 700million ISK. Higher desirability potentially results in more PLEX being bought to get more value.
Cheap isk PLEX hurts CCP more than expensive isk PLEX, because cheaper isk PLEX is less desirable to purchase from CCP for $20 than a more expensive isk PLEX for $20. What high school did you go to? I think I need to slap whoever gave you a diploma Let's not be hasty in making assumptions here.... |

masternerdguy
Dominion Task Force
1705
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 22:57:00 -
[59] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:
Cheap isk PLEX hurts CCP more than expensive isk PLEX, because cheaper isk PLEX is less desirable to purchase from CCP for $20 than a more expensive isk PLEX for $20.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClXAaGoT5eE Things are only impossible until they are not. |

Alduin666 Shikkoken
Unholy Knights of Cthulhu Test Alliance Please Ignore
616
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 23:02:00 -
[60] - Quote
Hold on guys I need to grab my tinfoil hat before I go any further. Honor is a fools prize. Glory is of no use to the dead.
Be a man! Post with your main! ~Vas'Avi Community Manager |
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