When looking for the source of a problem

do u think honesly the PLEAX prices are magic and that it comes from no where? poeple buy PLEX and sell it into the game so they pay more to CCCP for the PLEX than they do to subscribe. why does this make since to you that they would do this to make moere money?

When looking for the source of a problem, you need to look at the intersection of who profits from the problem and who can enable the problem to occur.

Do regular subscribers benefit from high PLEX prices? No.
Do subscribers with PLEX benefit from higher PLEX prices? Hell no.
Do people who buy PLEX to fund their activities benefit from higher PLEX prices? Yes, but how are they going to drive PLEX prices up?

Does CCP benefit from higher PLEX prices? Yes. They noticed more people not using subs, and a drop in income because people don't want to pay for all this feature-less "development" (lol "expansions") and they are using their own methods to force us into paying them more money. It's a cash grab, pure and simple.

Are you buying into it?

Fark, I bought popcorn for this weekend instead of tinfoil.

They noticed more people not using subs, and a drop in income because people don't want to pay for all this feature-less "development" (lol "expansions") and they are using their own methods to force us into paying them more money.

When looking for the source of a problem, you need to look at the intersection of who profits from the problem and who can enable the problem to occur.

Do regular subscribers benefit from high PLEX prices? No.
Do subscribers with PLEX benefit from higher PLEX prices? Hell no.
Do people who buy PLEX to fund their activities benefit from higher PLEX prices? Yes, but how are they going to drive PLEX prices up?

Does CCP benefit from higher PLEX prices? Yes. They noticed more people not using subs, and a drop in income because people don't want to pay for all this feature-less "development" (lol "expansions") and they are using their own methods to force us into paying them more money. It's a cash grab, pure and simple.

Are you buying into it?

Buy Jiffypop like I do. Then you get the best of both worlds. The tinfoil container used to cook the popcorn on the stove recycles nicely into hats.

You do know that a PLEX costs more than a monthly subscription to buy right? And PLEX don't appear out of nowhere, someone paid real money for it to put it on the market.

And hi plex prices do benefit someone besides CCP: People who sell PLEX for ISK to those daft enough to use PLEX to pay their subscription

This implies a problem exists. This is false. No one is under any obligation to provide you with cheap/easy game time.

You do know that a PLEX costs more than a monthly subscription to buy right? And PLEX don't appear out of nowhere, someone paid real money for it to put it on the market.

And hi plex prices do benefit someone besides CCP: People who sell PLEX for ISK to those daft enough to use PLEX to pay their subscription

When looking for the source of a problem, you need to look at the intersection of who profits from the problem and who can enable the problem to occur.

Do regular subscribers benefit from high PLEX prices? No.
Do subscribers with PLEX benefit from higher PLEX prices? Hell no.
Do people who buy PLEX to fund their activities benefit from higher PLEX prices? Yes, but how are they going to drive PLEX prices up?

Does CCP benefit from higher PLEX prices? Yes. They noticed more people not using subs, and a drop in income because people don't want to pay for all this feature-less "development" (lol "expansions") and they are using their own methods to force us into paying them more money. It's a cash grab, pure and simple.

Are you buying into it?

When looking for the source of a problem, you need to look at the intersection of who profits from the problem and who can enable the problem to occur.

Do regular subscribers benefit from high PLEX prices? No.
Do subscribers with PLEX benefit from higher PLEX prices? Hell no.
Do people who buy PLEX to fund their activities benefit from higher PLEX prices? Yes, but how are they going to drive PLEX prices up?

Does CCP benefit from higher PLEX prices? Yes. They noticed more people not using subs, and a drop in income because people don't want to pay for all this feature-less "development" (lol "expansions") and they are using their own methods to force us into paying them more money. It's a cash grab, pure and simple.

Are you buying into it?

Exactly what I came here to say.

Pretty much this. What the hell is up with the random tinfoil hat fad we've been seeing as of late? Next up, someone will say that bronies are taking over or some stupid ****.

When looking for the source of a problem, you need to look at the intersection of who profits from the problem and who can enable the problem to occur.

Do regular subscribers benefit from high PLEX prices? No.
Do subscribers with PLEX benefit from higher PLEX prices? Hell no.
Do people who buy PLEX to fund their activities benefit from higher PLEX prices? Yes, but how are they going to drive PLEX prices up?

Does CCP benefit from higher PLEX prices? Yes. They noticed more people not using subs, and a drop in income because people don't want to pay for all this feature-less "development" (lol "expansions") and they are using their own methods to force us into paying them more money. It's a cash grab, pure and simple.

Are you buying into it?

I promise, CCP cares more about the people buying plex(and funding the game) than those who are playing for free.

Increasing the price of PLEX has 2 benefits for CCP.

1) it raises the ISK subscription fee resulting in more people needing to continue their ability to stay within EVE with subscription purchases with real money, which real money benefits CCP.

2) Because the PLEX is more lucrative due to it's having a higher ISK worth, more people are willing to pay CCP real money to buy PLEX to then turn into ISK, which results in CCP getting more money from people buying more PLEX to sell for ISK.

If Plex were worth only 300mil ISK, more people would be subbing to EvE with plex rather than money, which would result in less money for CCP.

It's very obvious that PLEX being worth more ISK benefits CCP.

PLEX prices are high because of speculators, not because a bunch of players suddenly decided to start using PLEX for their accounts. It's an unfortunate consequence of CCP introducing PLEX as a convenient alternative to GTC trading and as a foundation for monetized perks like multiple character training.

It's not a certainty that PLEX being bought and sold on the market within EvE is new plex recently bought for $20.

Increasing the price of PLEX has 2 benefits for CCP.

1) it raises the ISK subscription fee resulting in more people needing to continue their ability to stay within EVE with subscription purchases with real money, which real money benefits CCP.

2) Because the PLEX is more lucrative due to it's having a higher ISK worth, more people are willing to pay CCP real money to buy PLEX to then turn into ISK, which results in CCP getting more money from people buying more PLEX to sell for ISK.

If Plex were worth only 300mil ISK, more people would be subbing to EvE with plex rather than money, which would result in less money for CCP. Eventually, through the PLEX disappearing through use of pilots licenses, they would become scarce resulting in them raising in isk and worth over time. And since $20 would only be buying 300mil ISK, less people would be buying PLEX since at that time, $20 = 300mil isk.

It's very obvious that PLEX being worth more ISK benefits CCP.

The question of the matter though, is CCP manipulating the worth of PLEX behind the scenes to benefit themselves? Which if they were, IMO, would be perfectly acceptable since ultimately they are a business providing a service.

higher PLEX prices? Yes. They noticed more people not using subs, and a drop in income because people don't want to pay for all this feature-less "development" (lol "expansions") and they are using their own methods to force us into paying them more money. It's a cash grab, pure and simple.

Are you buying into it?

When looking for the source of a problem, you need to look at the intersection of who profits from the problem and who can enable the problem to occur.

Do regular subscribers benefit from high PLEX prices? No.
Do subscribers with PLEX benefit from higher PLEX prices? Hell no.
Do people who buy PLEX to fund their activities benefit from higher PLEX prices? Yes, but how are they going to drive PLEX prices up?

Does CCP benefit from higher PLEX prices? Yes. They noticed more people not using subs, and a drop in income because people don't want to pay for all this feature-less "development" (lol "expansions") and they are using their own methods to force us into paying them more money. It's a cash grab, pure and simple.

Are you buying into it?

This only applies under the scenario in which PLEX is NPC seeded, which it isn't. Every single plex in the market was placed for sale by a player, that paid real money for it.

Now if the individual was buying up plex with illegitimate isk and then trashing them, that would be a problem, but I am utterly too tired to reach for my :tinfoil:

As I said in another thread high PLEX prices are due to: demand > supply, basic economics, no conspiracy here.

This COULD be happening. It is POSSIBLE that CCP creates "throw away" accounts to buy PLEX from the market with instantly materialized through GM/DEV code, without the work put in to generate the ISK, and then delete it to remove the supply of lower priced PLEX to leave the remaining PLEX at a higher, more desireable for CCP price.

This COULD be happening. It is POSSIBLE that CCP creates "throw away" accounts to buy PLEX from the market with instantly materialized through GM/DEV code, without the work put in to generate the ISK, and then delete it to remove the supply of lower priced PLEX to leave the remaining PLEX at a higher, more desireable for CCP price.

I bet you believe in Chemtrails too.

I bet you believe in Chemtrails too.

Also, it could be construed that PLEX is NPC seeded because no one builds the PLEX, CCP materializes the ISK out of thin air upon it's purchase.

I even explain that since people have to buy PLEX for it to exist, that it causes a desire for PLEX to be worth more isk to justify the investment of real money to make the isk return worth it.

Why would you say that?

Oh he does! Wow......stereotypes are amazing.

That doesn't make it NPC seeded.

GǪwhich only explains how players benefit from higher prices, not CCP. Your scenario still hinges on the notion that PLEX are seeded, which they're not.

Believing in something and understanding it's a possibility are 2 different things.

The inability to understand that is ignorance.

Where does PLEX come from?

Cash payments to CCP.
No, no NPC is involved. No, they're not seeded. No, CCP does not miss out on money when people PLEX their accounts.

So CCP creates the PLEX.

So since CCP creates the PLEX, it is in their best interests to have PLEX be desirable enough to want to buy.

PLEX being bought because it's desirable equals more money for CCP.

Cheap isk PLEX hurts CCP more than expensive isk PLEX, because cheaper isk PLEX is less desirable to purchase from CCP for $20 than a more expensive isk PLEX for $20.

A PLEX costs $20.
A subscription costs $15.

If a person is looking to sub his account using money, it's understandable that he's going to use the option that results in him paying less, being a $15 subscription costs. He COULD buy a PLEX for $20 and then immediately turn around and use it to sub his account, but IMO, that's a waste of $5 because he could've got the same product for 25% cheaper.

Now considering that it's more cost efficient for a player looking to subscribe his account using dollars to go with the cheaper option, the purpose of PLEX existing has to be taken into consideration.

That purpose is to sell PLEX for isk. If PLEX is worth 350million isk, it is less desireable than a PLEX being worth 700million ISK. Higher desirability potentially results in more PLEX being bought to get more value.

Cheap isk PLEX hurts CCP more than expensive isk PLEX, because cheaper isk PLEX is less desirable to purchase from CCP for $20 than a more expensive isk PLEX for $20.

What high school did you go to? I think I need to slap whoever gave you a diploma

Cheap isk PLEX hurts CCP more than expensive isk PLEX, because cheaper isk PLEX is less desirable to purchase from CCP for $20 than a more expensive isk PLEX for $20.

But at the same time, it works both ways. The isk price needs to be low enough for the PLEX purchasers to feel that they'll get a return on their investment, but they want it to be worth more to make their investment more valuable. It's all about trying to find the most people are willing to pay.

With PLEX right now being sold at 740million, that could be enticing people who don't already have PLEX in supply to buy plex, which is a benefit to CCP.

GǪexcept that this isn't happening. Again, and I'll keep repeating this until it sinks in: they were desirable to buy at a quarter the price and if anything, lower ISK prices means people will have to buy more of them to make up for their ISK needs. The trade volume at 740M is the same as it were at 540M GÇö there is no visible GÇ£enticementGÇ¥ from the higher price.

So all that is happening is that the higher price makes people shut down their accounts, which inevitably translates into lost money for CCP.

I never said they weren't desirable enough to be bought. I stated that PLEX being sold for more isk makes PLEX MORE desirable than a PLEX worth less ISK.

GǪexcept that there is nothing to suggest that it actually happens that way, and even if it did, being Gǣmore desirableGǥ is only beneficial to CCP if it at the same time both creates more sales and keeps people from closing down their accounts. By all appearances, it does neither.

So again, the only one who benefits from the higher price point is the PLEX sellers GÇö CCP certainly doesn't.

I never said they weren't desirable enough to be bought. I stated that PLEX being sold for more isk makes PLEX MORE desirable than a PLEX worth less ISK.

when did we start forming conclusions based on zero actual factsahahahaha GD

We don't have the figures of PLEX being bought from CCP, so we have no idea of knowing if they are benefiting from an increase in PLEX being bought.

Because we can't know since they won't tell us, you can't state the "the only one who benefits" because you can't know if CCP is not also benefiting.

We have the trade volumes, which speakGǪ wellGǪ volumes.

Since we know how many PLEX change hands and for what price, and we can state with certainty that the volume isn't being affected by the price, we can indeed know that the higher price does not benefit CCP since it doesn't actually lead to more sales.

Your unfounded suppositions are in one case flat-out wrong, and in the other case contradicted by reality. Live with it.

The trade data (which is available to anyone via the market) shows that PLEX volume is not reflecting that position. Volume would need to increase under your assumption.

Your position assumes the seller of the PLEX in-game is the driving force of the PLEX Market, but it's the consumer as usual that drives the market.

The trade volumes only show the amount of PLEX bought and sold within EvE

Yea, the consumer generates the demand

You can state with certainty about how many PLEX are being traded within the confines of the EvE universe, PLEX for ISK.
But you cannot state with certainty about how many PLEX are being bought from CCP with money.

No, it proves that it's possible.

All PLEX are purchased from CCP with real money, and it's safe to assume that the total number being bought for cash is greater than or equal to the number being traded.

Any players "holding" PLEX benefit when they either redeem or sell them, the former has no bearing on your position. If players holding PLEX sell them, the isk value will decrease as volume increases.

The reason plex have gone up in price is cause silly buggers will pay the higher price

Except an increased value of PLEX determined through ISK price makes people considering to invest in PLEX for the purpose of selling it more desirable to engage,

which will result in a temporary increase in supply, resulting in a temporary increase in profit by CCP for the additional PLEX being bought.

No, it proves that it's possible.

GǪexcept that this isn't happening. If it did, we'd either see higher volumes, or we'd have to explain why people buy stuff they can't use. Making stuff GǣconsiderGǥ something is of absolutely no use to anyone.

GǪneither of which seems to be happening, and which would directly clash with CCP's attempts at bringing the prices down.

You don't know if it's happening or not.

There is no metric used to show the total amount of PLEX being bought by players from players for isk

You assuming to know

O.K. I see..

Is CCP CAPABLE of what you are suggesting? Sure, I would not put anything past them.

Are they actually DOING it? The evidence says no, and it would be very bad for them when it was discovered, this is spreadsheets online after all..

/wonders if the quickie-mart on the corner sells jiffy-pop.

How do you explain people buying stuff they can't use?

No.
We know all we need to know. We know for a fact that higher prices do not lead to more PLEX being traded. We know for a fact that CCP is trying to keep prices down. If you want to fit your hypothesis with these facts, you will have to come up with some really good explanations for the deeply irrational behaviour this would mean on both the players' and CCP's part.

You can't know that more or less total plex is being traded

As for CCP wanting to keep prices down, well personally I've never seen a Dev statement confirming one way or the other. Does one exist?

You believe you know all you need to know.
You can't know that more or less total plex is being traded, you only assume you do with the information provided to you, but there is information that none of us knows. Because of what we can't know, it's impossible to say one way or the other as a certainty.

As for CCP wanting to keep prices down, well personally I've never seen a Dev statement confirming one way or the other. Does one exist? Potentially. Just because I haven't seen the statement doesn't mean I'm going to claim it doesn't exist.

So it's proven you don't know what you can't know, but you believe strongly.

OK cool, it's nice to see you finally acknowledge that you can't know the unknowable.

The problem with this reasoning is that, if we assume your premise, we can't know anything about anything and therefore we cannot draw any conclusions. It's a futile mental exercise.

That is a perfectly valid opinion you're allowed to have.

Price history charts are available in the game client, dumbass.

Do you even economics?

So it's proven you don't know what you can't know

I'd have thought with you playing EvE for so many years that you'd have learned the price history chart doesn't cover those things.

It's an informed opinion, however.

Did you know that the Price History charts only show what happens through the EvE market? It does not take contracts into consideration. It does not take player to player trades into consideration.

Nope. That's just you stating a baseless opinion which is, once again, 100% disproven by reality.

So then you claim to know that which you cannot.

So then you claim to know that which you cannot.

What percentage of total PLEX traded would you accept as a realistic value for these "private" trades between player entities?

Anything in the mean time is pure speculation

Nope. That's just you inventing a strawman because reality contradicts your uninformed assumptions and you have nowhere else to go.

The fact remains: we have the data; we have the dev statements; we have a solid theory on consumer behaviour.
You are trying to contradict all of this with an unproven hypothesis that relies on complete irrationality on everyone's part, which you haven't been able to explain.

You have proven absolutely nothing, and instead lied about it, as you always do.

What I feel would be a percentage to determine a realistic value is inconsequential because ultimately, who am I? CCP could answer all of the questions with their facts, being the deciding factor on what is and what isn't. Anything in the mean time is pure speculation, because we are not given the tools necessary to know for a fact what the truth is.

O.K. so how exactly are you coming to your conclusions without data or even extrapolated data?

So you disagree to my saying you know, and you disagree to saying you don't know.

More proof to me that any communication with you is ultimately a waste of time, because

Nope. That's just you stating a baseless opinion which is, once again, 100% disproven by reality.

Nope. That's just you inventing a strawman because reality contradicts your uninformed assumptions and you have nowhere else to go.

This is your champion?

Someone who so easily contradicts himself within 2 posts?

As Tippia mentioned, high ISK per PLEX could, if anything, reduce PLEX supply, not raise it.

Too bad there's no contradiction. You know that thing I said about reality disproving youGǪ?

Nope. That's just you stating a baseless opinion which is, once again, 100% disproven by reality.

This is your champion?

Someone who so easily contradicts himself within 2 posts?

It could also very well increase PLEX supply

Except the reality is you can't know, yet you'll deny that you don't know.

possibility

When you type "CCP" in Wingdings, you get two thumbs up.... and a white flag.

COINCIDENCE?

Explain why people would buy something they can't use.
Explain how the price would keep going up if they do.

Nope. That's just you inventing yet another strawman.

Yea, it could. I never said it could not. It could also very well increase PLEX supply by more people having bought it hoping to get in on the higher value only to find there aren't enough buyers at the present time to satisfy their attempt at making as much isk they were hoping to, deciding to hold onto it for the potential of fulfilling their initially desired amount of isk.

possibility

That's way too complicated for your typical PLEX buyer, a guy that dishes out 20 bucks because he just wants to play the darn game without the hassle of grinding PVE or setting up an ISK-making toon or speculating on PLEX futures.

Because at the moment they might believe they could potentially use it.
If the price were going up, the price would keep going up if they're being bought

And it's not me inventing a strawman if it's me quoting you. It's the evidence.

when did we start forming conclusions based on zero actual factsahahahaha GD

DE. I'm going to roleplay along with you and consider you an adorable noob with a massive mouth rather than an argumentative troll. For which I will pick you up, squeeze you, carry you under my arm, and patronise you until you run away and join the circus.

If you want a proper discussion about plex and markets, GO TO MARKET DISCUSSIONS. They have calculators, and Plex, and auditors. They love newbies. Try asking questions before you make assumptions tho - they've been on a diet since Ebank/T4U.

If I don't get an obedient answer before you badpoast again, I'll rip your posts apart one by one, word by word and make Trippia look kind.

Off you go. Or stay

How do you feel about the possibility that CCP is inflating it's own PLEX price within EvE?

Hello, i hear you would like to speak about the possibility of CCP inflating PLEX price. I use the word possibility, because it is possible.

How do you feel about the possibility that CCP is inflating it's own PLEX price within EvE?

Hello, i hear you would like to speak about the possibility of CCP inflating PLEX price. I use the word possibility, because it is possible.

How do you feel about the possibility that CCP is inflating it's own PLEX price within EvE?

Well, since they were dumb enough to put a monument up, I'll chain myself to it naked until they stop. Provided you can prove it. Thank you for responding in a respectful and appropriate manner.

I have just under 100 accounts I sub via Plex btw, so if anyone should be screaming it's me. Funnily enough it's just a minor shift I'll have to think around. Although I am sympathetic to the peasants who either can't afford to pay to play or feel they've reached a point where they shouldn't have to dedicate a majority of their ingametime to ISK making. Which I should, considering I belong to both categories.

All of the other tinfoil hattery can go the same way. The CCP economist (whose name I cannot spell, so I just made something up - please don't be offended) Dr EggJog publically commited to stabilising plex prices and intervening where required - and no, you lazy creature, you can bloody well go find it yourself, or I'll demand a citation from every post and statement you make, and a bibliography. Now personally, Eggy hasn't been impressing me - and you'll find a similar sentiment on MD - simply due to lack of communication. That's not to say a lack of confidence, it's the lack of communication. I suspect he is far too cautious to commit to that sort of statement unless it's been rubberstamped. And tbh I wouldn't either.

One key thing to note, which VV can explain at length - once a price hits a certain point it's a benchmark it rarely drops below unless there is a major market shift. So. Yes, it is a major problem to see plexes spike so fast in such a short time - if anything because it suggests inflation is out of control. CCP need to find that balance between retaining account holders who plex, encouraging people to buy plex to sell, and stopping people from selling ISK for gold. If you can prove they are deliberately fisting themselves, again, monument. We could call it the Summer of WTFJESUSCHRISTITSCOLDHERE.

It's not my intention to prove that CCP is manipulating it's own PLEX prices. I'm merely stating it's a possibility and defending that statement from people who claim it is impossible.

It's not my intention to prove that CCP is manipulating it's own PLEX prices. I'm merely stating it's a possibility and defending that statement from people who claim it is impossible.

If CCP tried to manipulate their own PLEX prices, people would just buy them from a different retailer, at least if they tried to increase it.
They offer all kinds of discounts, and even the occasional special offer, though, but it would be awfully weasel-word:y to call those GÇ£manipulationsGÇ¥.

I want to add that offering some temporary discounts on PLEX sales is a far cry from secretly removing PLEX from the market like he suggested.

It's not my intention to prove that CCP is manipulating it's own PLEX prices. I'm merely stating it's a possibility and defending that statement from people who claim it is impossible.

Maybe PLEX prices are just up because players realized they can not take their isk with them to StarCitzen. They cancelled their accounts are are using those monies to pay for really good marketing.

It could be... can't say for sure but I am feeling that dev initiated market adjustments get made without our knowledge; I do know that rather than pay the higher prices for plex I just inactivated some of my accounts... so less money not more - I can't afford it.

That was my reaction when I pulled down the Jita PLEX market data and just did a SUM() on it without first filtering out the noise.

GǪit showed 3,152,157,587 PLEX trades in active orders(!)

what does this mean? that there's been three billion market transactions involving plex? or that this number of plex have changed hands? or that all the orders have asked for or offered this many plex?

It means she has no idea what she is talking about.

Fark, I bought popcorn for this weekend instead of tinfoil.

what does this mean? that there's been three billion market transactions involving plex? or that this number of plex have changed hands? or that all the orders have asked for or offered this many plex?

So no, CCP very obviously does not benefit from higher prices. Instead, they benefit from lower prices. Exactly why they do so is hardly rocket surgery.

Which is only technically true once the number of accounts that depend on PLEX surpasses the number of PLEX in the supply. An account deciding to forgo PLEXing that month due to prices won't affect CCP in the slightest.

So as long as there are any on the market anywhere, CCP isn't losing anything. Which will never happen so long as CCP continues to make them available.

Probably the most obvious thing you have overlooked Tips, is the RMT angle. PLEX being more expensive makes the buying of ISK that much more desirable.

Bottom line, CCP trying to keep the prices of PLEX low are only going to hurt themselves.

Assuming for a minute that PLEX are being purchased as an investment (as has been hinted at previously), it would be in CCP's best interest to keep prices low as investors in most commodities do not hoard or hold when prices are high.

CCP start losing the instant an account closes down, because it means either means a direct reduction in income or a reduction in demand for income-generating PLEX.

And this is the myth we need to squash. Sure, losing subscription hurts CCP immediately, but not PLEXed accounts. The effect those accounts have are entirely implied, not actually witnessed. Since such things are not going to directly hurt PLEX revenue for CCP, we cannot quantify those events as significant enough to impact PLEX pricing by themselves.

What you can do with PLEX is why people buy it with ISK. ISK is why people sell PLEX. The higher the value of them, the more that will be purchased from CCP.

It doesn't matter how many are actually on the ingame market, it really doesn't so long as people keep buying them.

That said, I still don't see that CCP could consider PLEXed accounts going inactive as a loss of revenue. Sure they can make projections about it, but that doesn't actually change anything.

Many people buy and sell PLEX in bulk, so those transactions aren't necessarily going to show a fluid market history.

Nice, it's good to see that the 100% proven fact that it is possible CCP could be manipulating it's own PLEX prices

since it is impossible to prove that it's not a possibility.

Nice, it's good to see that the 100% proven fact that it is possible CCP could be manipulating it's own PLEX prices to rise is not considered rumour mongering, which I never doubted would be considered so since it is impossible to prove that it's not a possibility.

Possible? Sure. A lot of things are possible.

Likely? No. Things like that tend to come out, I can't see it being worth it for CCP.

I once knew someone who believed in Bigfoot and that there was another gunman on the Kennedy assassination. My response was to explain a theory, that I had just created, that Bigfoot was the shooter on the grassy knoll. It would explain why he has been so difficult to find. (The CIA helps him to hide - quid pro quo.)

Possible? Sure. Likely? No. I will admit, though, that your theory is far more likely than this one.

CCP is in the same boat with plex. They can't actually show the net profit off of a plex until it's actually redeemed and out of the system. If anything, CCP would want to drive the in-game cost of PLEX downwards. The faster the plex cycles out and gets redeemed, the quicker CCP has solid numbers to use for income (Plex redeemed out of system today nets $19.95 minus, lets say, $4 per account/month in expenses. Maybe in a month, those expenses go up to $7 per account/month).

Come to think of it, this finally provides a sane reason to keep the NeX around and trying to fill it with valuable goods even though the code was never finished and the context that was supposed provide that value has been all but abandoned.

Converting to AUR means that they can finally recognise the profit and yet, in-game, almost nothing has happened. The player now has an item (or a parallel not-quite-currency) that is worth roughly as much as the PLEX was and should be a happy camper, and the liability of the PLEX is finally taken care of. And that's on top of the expenses for the service rendered being pretty much zero.

... so they pay more to CCCP

Also, presumably, PLEX bought to buy any kind of client service are being cashed in very quickly rather than stashed away. The only one I can think of where you might want to have a stockpile of PLEX to be used later is the multi-character training, since you can't apply all at once and have the training permission tick down unprompted for months. And even then, there is an upper limit when dual training no longer becomes a sensible option compared to second account + character transfer, which once again puts the player back on a schedule of (almost) immediately exercise their options.

Speculation on the ISK price seems to be the only PLEX use where there's any real value in holding on to them and causing grey hairs for CCP's accountants.

You can have them tick down now for multiple months. No time limit any more that I am aware of.

Ah, yes! That's communism for you.

Hint for those too young to remember.

CCCP is the Cyrillic spelling of USSR.

This smells all very overcomplicated to me. Heres what I think happened:

Dude 1 is looking for PLEX. Going rate is 600 mill. He buys it.
Dude 2 is selling PLEX. Has plenty of time, so puts it up for 610
Dude 3 sees selling for 610 and puts it up for 615
Dude 4 only sees the 615 cos all 600 and 610 were sold. He puts it up for 620

In the meantime PLEX is being sold higher and higher. ISK has inflated like mad. It will get worse when refining changes hits. There will be even less goods compared to the total ISK pool. As of summer the prices will rise more.
So CCP has a major influence. But its not directly and its not planned or deliberately used to influence PLEX-pricing.

PLEX price is up so much because ISK is worth alot less.

Wow, Tippias comment got edited by an ISD for a personal attack.
In some other thread, I spotted Tippia making a spelling mistake.

And Chribba seems a little more aggressive than usual.

I'm female and a much nicer person now!

Humanity is changing!

The horror ...........

I want to lick your face now that it has changed

That's ... very nice.

Let's not derail the thread.

Expect prices to rise and rise the closer Star Citizen gets to launch.... yes, it's that game that will kill this one, if CCP doesn't change their model and create a better solo experience. CCP has already abandoned any real advancements to this game and only give tiny updates to calm the entrenched Free player base.

Honestly, anyone who pays RL money to play this game as is, is missing the EVE way "the ever popular " Don't pay for, what you can afford to Steal, or let some new player pay for"

Back when plex were 300 mil, Trit was trading around the 2-3 isk mark. Since everything in the game is getting more expensive, the cost of Plex is going up as well.

Expect prices to rise and rise the closer Star Citizen gets to launch.... yes, it's that game that will kill this one, if CCP doesn't change their model and create a better solo experience. CCP has already abandoned any real advancements to this game and only give tiny updates to calm the entrenched Free player base.

Honestly, anyone who pays RL money to play this game as is, is missing the EVE way "the ever popular " Don't pay for, what you can afford to Steal, or let some new player pay for"... It's only required to pay RL money when you first start this game, after that you're just doing it wrong if you do.

I am very excited about SC, but it is not EVE, nor is it trying to be. They're not the same game and though there is obviously overlapping interest, I doubt it will affect EVE very much at all.

Let's see.

How can I play this game for free?
1) I will buy Plex with in game ISK. Why pay RL money for something that is earned so easy in game with normal game play. No matter the cost, it's well within reach of any player to earn a months play time in game.


Why would I want to buy a GTC?
1) I'm a new player that has no skills, time or experience and I think getting ahead quickly is buying expensive junk so I throw RL money at this game to get ahead, but quickly realize I was wrong.


Why would Plex be more expensive?
1) Because there are fewer new players buying GTC's.

Expect prices to rise and rise the closer Star Citizen gets to launch.... yes, it's that game that will kill this one, if CCP doesn't change their model and create a better solo experience. CCP has already abandoned any real advancements to this game and only give tiny updates to calm the entrenched Free player base.

Honestly, anyone who pays RL money to play this game as is, is missing the EVE way "the ever popular " Don't pay for, what you can afford to Steal, or let some new player pay for"... It's only required to pay RL money when you first start this game, after that you're just doing it wrong if you do.

The last paragraph of your post is nonsense.

I have a reasonable amount of money in real life and can afford to pay for my two accounts by annual sub without having to actually remember how much the actual cost is, roughly -ú90.00 per year for one account?

This means that any isk I earn in-game can be lost by me in pvp as I am pretty bad at it, without having to 'grind' isk for PLEX in any way shape or form.

Any statement about what you feel is certain or not regarding the amount of PLEX being bought from CCP for money is merely your opinion.

When looking for the source of a problem, you need to look at the intersection of who profits from the problem and who can enable the problem to occur.

Do regular subscribers benefit from high PLEX prices? No.
Do subscribers with PLEX benefit from higher PLEX prices? Hell no.
Do people who buy PLEX to fund their activities benefit from higher PLEX prices? Yes, but how are they going to drive PLEX prices up?

Does CCP benefit from higher PLEX prices? Yes. They noticed more people not using subs, and a drop in income because people don't want to pay for all this feature-less "development" (lol "expansions") and they are using their own methods to force us into paying them more money. It's a cash grab, pure and simple.

Are you buying into it?

Honestly, anyone who pays RL money to play this game as is, is missing the EVE way "the ever popular " Don't pay for, what you can afford to Steal, or let some new player pay for"... It's only required to pay RL money when you first start this game, after that you're just doing it wrong if you do.

If you have to worry about how much ISK a PLEX costs on the market, you can't afford it. I wish they'd just start locking these PLEX price threads. Stop being poor and pay via a subscription, or do your part to lower PLEX prices buy buying a bunch of them and selling them under market value.

Are you buying into it?

I bought two plex to buy a freighter, an I evil?

I don't want to alarm anyone, but have you folks seen the price of bacon lately?

I don't want to have to choose between bacon and EVE because that delicious pork candy is a monkey I just can't shake.

do u think honesly the PLEAX prices are magic and that it comes from no where? poeple buy PLEX and sell it into the game so they pay more to CCCP for the PLEX than they do to subscribe. why does this make since to you that they would do this to make moere money?

1) If CCP wants to magically make a hundred PLEX poof into existence then yes, they can do exactly that.

2) Computers, how do they work? Must be witchcraft!

3) The word for the day is "school." Look it up, sometime.

I don't want to alarm anyone, but have you folks seen the price of bacon lately?

I don't want to have to choose between bacon and EVE because that delicious pork candy is a monkey I just can't shake.

I am still relatively new to this game, but I am by no means new to MMOs, been playing them and their respective precursors since before the existance of GUI based internet, hence I have a very good grasp and 1st hand experience on the multitude of F2P , sub and mixed business models.

So I would like to chime in on the whole PLEX pricing thing.

1. Plex is idiotically cheap. There are many people in this game (various gameplay vids available, google it yourselves) that can make in excess of 600 mil per hour with ease. They basically fart billions of ISK and sneeze out battleships and caps if they want to. To me a monthly sub like this should equate to at least 20 hours of gameplay, thats assuming 20 hours / week, which is mid range, not exactly hardcore, but not casual, leaving the remaining 3 weeks of the month to spend in the game spending the ISK elsewhere after earning the monthly sub.

There is no other sub-based MMO in the industry that lets people earn a monthly sub fee in little over an hour of gameplay.