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The real reason PLEX is so expensive

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Jur Tissant Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2014.04.22 04:01:00 - [211] - Quote CCP should want players to be able to afford PLEX. A single month of subscription is $15 (less in bulk). A PLEX is $20. I'm not saying they should intervene, but it's probably in their best interest than new players can PLEX consistently after a few months.
Bata Kylarro Ministry of War Amarr Empire 19	Posted - 2014.04.22 04:23:00 - [212] - Quote PotatoOverdose wrote: Petrus Blackshell wrote: When looking for the source of a problem This implies a problem exists. This is false. No one is under any obligation to provide you with cheap/easy game time. _________________________________________________________________________________ + 1 ofc ( obvs op thinking dev. crews + overhead all paid in isk iso rl money: in that case a real problem would exist.....) (or maybe op thinking ccp = some virtual company only, with virtual staff & dev.crews? dunno what op's rl perception) anyway, from time to time i like getting some plex for smoothly getting some ships i like from the market, so, let isk rise somewhat more imo
Hasikan Miallok Republic University Minmatar Republic 613	Posted - 2014.04.22 04:41:00 - [213] - Quote Rex Steal wrote: What will happen if its not happening now is that the solo player will disappear or be forced too buy plex to get anywhere in Eve. It would be pretty easy on one account with the free alts setup for passive income to buy 2 maybe 3 PLEX a month , even at a billion. if for some ideological "game purity" reason you refuse to use the free alts and insist on only running one toon it should still be relatively simple to PLEX providing the cost stays under 1.5 to 2 billion a PLEX. The only people that would struggle with this would be: a) brand new accounts b) people with limited time available to login and c) the odd person or two that PvP ganks for tears not profit. In ALL of those cases you have to ask why on earth the player is even considering plexing.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 15193	Posted - 2014.04.22 07:55:00 - [214] - Quote Jur Tissant wrote: CCP should want players to be able to afford PLEX. A single month of subscription is $15 (less in bulk). A PLEX is $20. I'm not saying they should intervene, but it's probably in their best interest than new players can PLEX consistently after a few months. Essentially what you're asking CCP to do is lower their subscription prices. The price difference is to allow room for resellers to actually make some margin when they sell GTCs. It's not good business to undercut your resellers. Here is my CSM9 endorsement list - vote for diversity of expertise : Ali Aras-á Mangala Solaris-á Mike Azariah-á Steve Ronuken James Arget-á Xander Phoena-á Sugar Kyle-á corbexx-á mynnna-á progodlegend-á Psychotic Monk-á Jayne Fillion
Ramona McCandless The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity 3503	Posted - 2014.04.22 08:02:00 - [215] - Quote Jur Tissant wrote: CCP should want players to be able to afford PLEX. A single month of subscription is $15 (less in bulk). A PLEX is $20. I'm not saying they should intervene, but it's probably in their best interest than new players can PLEX consistently after a few months. To PLEX consistantly would require a level of effort which for many people stops the game being about doing stuff they enjoy to doing stuff they feel they have to do. If I can pay for my account, I will. PLEX can be useful, but its for suckers mainly * Vote MTU For CSM * *Free The Jita 1* "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius
Solecist Project Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 635	Posted - 2014.04.22 08:15:00 - [216] - Quote Ramona McCandless wrote: Jur Tissant wrote: CCP should want players to be able to afford PLEX. A single month of subscription is $15 (less in bulk). A PLEX is $20. I'm not saying they should intervene, but it's probably in their best interest than new players can PLEX consistently after a few months. To PLEX consistantly would require a level of effort which for many people stops the game being about doing stuff they enjoy to doing stuff they feel they have to do. If I can pay for my account, I will. PLEX can be useful, but its for suckers mainly I agree. And then they whine about a game they don't even want to play but they stay subbed because it's free and believe they are entitled to have an opinion. And buying PLEX from CCP isn't even worth it. "My Favourite Nerdling GÖÑ" - Marsha Mellow
flakeys The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc 2147	Posted - 2014.04.22 08:23:00 - [217] - Quote masternerdguy wrote: You do know that a PLEX costs more than a monthly subscription to buy right? And PLEX don't appear out of nowhere, someone paid real money for it to put it on the market. And hi plex prices do benefit someone besides CCP: People who sell PLEX for ISK to those daft enough to use PLEX to pay their subscription Your assuming everyone 'grinds' for isk ... in wich case the daft is on you . We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Ramona McCandless The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity 3505	Posted - 2014.04.22 08:27:00 - [218] - Quote flakeys wrote: masternerdguy wrote: You do know that a PLEX costs more than a monthly subscription to buy right? And PLEX don't appear out of nowhere, someone paid real money for it to put it on the market. And hi plex prices do benefit someone besides CCP: People who sell PLEX for ISK to those daft enough to use PLEX to pay their subscription Your assuming everyone 'grinds' for isk ... in wich case the daft is on you . No they werent. Nothing in what you have quoted supports your supposition * Vote MTU For CSM * *Free The Jita 1* "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 15193	Posted - 2014.04.22 08:39:00 - [219] - Quote Katran Luftschreck wrote: Soshala Garemoko wrote: do u think honesly the PLEAX prices are magic and that it comes from no where? poeple buy PLEX and sell it into the game so they pay more to CCCP for the PLEX than they do to subscribe. why does this make since to you that they would do this to make moere money? 1) If CCP wants to magically make a hundred PLEX poof into existence then yes, they can do exactly that. 2) Computers, how do they work? Must be witchcraft! 3) The word for the day is "school." Look it up, sometime. Whilst they can, they don't. Those PLEX are confiscated from RMTers and other EULA violaters. Here is my CSM9 endorsement list - vote for diversity of expertise : Ali Aras-á Mangala Solaris-á Mike Azariah-á Steve Ronuken James Arget-á Xander Phoena-á Sugar Kyle-á corbexx-á mynnna-á progodlegend-á Psychotic Monk-á Jayne Fillion
Garia666 CyberShield Inc Triumvirate. 73	Posted - 2014.04.22 09:14:00 - [220] - Quote its just normal inflationa nd question and demand. back in 2007 you payed 450 mill for 100 day which slowly went up for 480 mill a 90 day GTC 2008 had an all time low paying 345 mill for 90 day GTC ( around april ) but slowly went up to 650 mill for 60 day at the end of 2008 . ( no more 90 day gtc`s ) 2009 started with the 650 mill but then peaked to 800 mill around june and dropped to 550 mill at the end of that year. 2010 started at 650 / 700 mill and kept steady for over the year at 760 mill 2011 started at 800 mill then dropped over to an steady 750 to reach 850 at the end of the year. 2012 at june the GTC`s where 1,2 bill and where pretty steady over the year. 2013 is a steady 1,2 to 1,25 bill 2014 prices get a 200 mil encrease to around 1,4 bill so far.
flakeys The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc 2147	Posted - 2014.04.22 09:36:00 - [221] - Quote Ramona McCandless wrote: flakeys wrote: masternerdguy wrote: You do know that a PLEX costs more than a monthly subscription to buy right? And PLEX don't appear out of nowhere, someone paid real money for it to put it on the market. And hi plex prices do benefit someone besides CCP: People who sell PLEX for ISK to those daft enough to use PLEX to pay their subscription Your assuming everyone 'grinds' for isk ... in wich case the daft is on you . No they werent. Nothing in what you have quoted supports your supposition So then enlighten me , HE NOT THEY , says anyone who uses plex to pay for a subscription instead of paying rl cash is daft to do so. Daft is an Old English-derived word for silly, stupid, or mad, depending on context. Now tell me what YOU think he meant by saying : to those daft enough to use PLEX to pay their subscription . It must have been something else because there are numerous people out there who make isk faster then they would make rl cash to pay for their sub and as such would be 'daft' to pay rl cash for their subs . We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Ramona McCandless The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity 3527	Posted - 2014.04.22 09:46:00 - [222] - Quote flakeys wrote: So then enlighten me , HE NOT THEY , says anyone who uses plex to pay for a subscription instead of paying rl cash is daft to do so. Daft is an Old English-derived word for silly, stupid, or mad, depending on context. . Im aware of this Can you point out where they mention grinding? * Vote MTU For CSM * *Free The Jita 1* "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius
Kagura Nikon Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness 1339	Posted - 2014.04.22 10:12:00 - [223] - Quote Petrus Blackshell wrote: When looking for the source of a problem, you need to look at the intersection of who profits from the problem and who can enable the problem to occur. Do regular subscribers benefit from high PLEX prices? No. Do subscribers with PLEX benefit from higher PLEX prices? Hell no. Do people who buy PLEX to fund their activities benefit from higher PLEX prices? Yes, but how are they going to drive PLEX prices up? Does CCP benefit from higher PLEX prices? Yes. They noticed more people not using subs, and a drop in income because people don't want to pay for all this feature-less "development" (lol "expansions") and they are using their own methods to force us into paying them more money. It's a cash grab, pure and simple. Are you buying into it? Let me teach you REAL economy. Less people are willing or able to pay the game with subscription, they change to using plex. Plex demands rise, plex price follows. The consumption of plex on flavor things is probably minimal if compared to the number of people that use them to pay their accounts. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!"
Ramona McCandless The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity 3527	Posted - 2014.04.22 10:16:00 - [224] - Quote Kagura Nikon wrote: Less people are willing or able to pay the game with subscription, they change to using plex. Really? Seems to me its going the other way around atm. * Vote MTU For CSM * *Free The Jita 1* "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius
Snagletooth Johnson Snagle Material Services CAStabouts 126	Posted - 2014.04.22 10:40:00 - [225] - Quote I fully endorse this man for CSM9! Vote today!
Salvos Rhoska 1117	Posted - 2014.04.22 11:05:00 - [226] - Quote Though we can disagree on specific explanations of the price rise, it is nonetheless clear that "something" has changed. That much is clear. I love the PLEX system. I think its an ingenius system, and one of this games (among many) major contributions to MMO design. Every game should be so lucky as to have had such a stable system of subbing. Its brilliant, really, and its remarkable PLEX has remained as stable (considering inflation and other indirect factors) for as long as it has. I nonetheless find the change in price worrisome, and potentially as symptomatic of an imbalance in the community. Know what I mean? Its the kind of thing, that if EVE was a biological entity, you would start running diagnostic tests to determine what is causing such a pronounced change in the organism's homeostasis. ------------
Ramona McCandless The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity 3529	Posted - 2014.04.22 11:35:00 - [227] - Quote Salvos Rhoska wrote: it is nonetheless clear that "something" has changed. That much is clear. Nope * Vote MTU For CSM * *Free The Jita 1* "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius
Salvos Rhoska 1117	Posted - 2014.04.22 11:46:00 - [228] - Quote Ramona McCandless wrote: Salvos Rhoska wrote: it is nonetheless clear that "something" has changed. That much is clear. Nope The denial is strong in this one. Its Ramona's Nope Day. ------------
Kaarous Aldurald ROC Deep Space The ROC 5211	Posted - 2014.04.22 11:47:00 - [229] - Quote Salvos Rhoska wrote: Ramona McCandless wrote: Salvos Rhoska wrote: it is nonetheless clear that "something" has changed. That much is clear. Nope The denial is strong in this one. Its Ramona's Nope Day. Inflation, bro. Nothing "changed", it's the same thing it always has been. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." -áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
Salvos Rhoska 1117	Posted - 2014.04.22 12:18:00 - [230] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Salvos Rhoska wrote: Ramona McCandless wrote: Salvos Rhoska wrote: it is nonetheless clear that "something" has changed. That much is clear. Nope The denial is strong in this one. Its Ramona's Nope Day. Inflation, bro. Nothing "changed", it's the same thing it always has been. Inflation is predictable. And inflation has an objective cause. Recent hikesare not attributable to inflation in their entirety. ------------
Ramona McCandless The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity 3538	Posted - 2014.04.22 12:20:00 - [231] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Salvos Rhoska wrote: Ramona McCandless wrote: Salvos Rhoska wrote: it is nonetheless clear that "something" has changed. That much is clear. Nope The denial is strong in this one. Its Ramona's Nope Day. Inflation, bro. Nothing "changed", it's the same thing it always has been. Its ok, he seems to think Im in denial, but he's the one arguing non-facts simply because others ascribe to facts. * Vote MTU For CSM * *Free The Jita 1* "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius
Mara Rinn Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium 5220	Posted - 2014.04.22 12:37:00 - [232] - Quote Volar Kang wrote: 3. CCP would actually like to see the in-game cost of Plex lower so more people pay with Plex. CCP's best interests are served when PLEX prices are high enough that people considering RMT through third parties will buy PLEX instead, but not so high that players won't fund their subscription with ISK. There are two curves of interest: the demand curve for ISK-bought PLEX, where the X-axis is the ISK value of a PLEX and the vertical axis is the number of PLEX consumed per month at a given ISK value. The second is the supply curve for dollar-bought PLEX, where the X-axis is the ISK value of a PLEX and the vertical axis is the number of PLEX bought per month to obtain a certain ISK-value. CCP will want to balance the PLEX value at approximately the intersection of the two curves, such that desire to supply is approximately the same as the desire to consume. If there is too much supply, the value goes down and fewer RMTers will use PLEX to gain their ISK, but that is self-correcting to some degree since as supply goes down, prices go up until the ISK-subscribers give up subscribing using PLEX, If the value goes up too high, the ISK-subscribers stop subscribing (or subscribe using other means), so there are fewer people consuming PLEX, so the price will come down. If you plot the price of PLEX on a logarithmic scale such that a steady percentage growth in value will show up as a straight line, you'll see that the price of PLEX is roughly a straight line. This is the free market at work, establishing a value for a consumable commodity. You'll also find wealth concentration at work, and you'll also find the "working poor" GÇö those people whose entire play time within the game is consumed with making the ISK to pay for their game time. If you are one of the "working poor", I have one piece of advice for you which comes in two options: option 1 is to stop subscribing using PLEX. Option 2 is to become better at making ISK, faster than PLEX becomes better at absorbing your ISK. If you run missions in hi sec, learn how to optimise your ship for each mission. Learn which agents provide the best missions. Learn which NPC corporations provide the best rewards. Optimise your play in terms of ISK/hr. Once you have enough to buy more than one PLEX per month, you are now space-rich and can start working on the wealth concentration part of the game. After one month, you have two PLEX, one consumed to pay the subscription, the second used to seed your trading fund. Use your money to make more money. This is how it works in real life too, and in real life you have the benefit of the tax system being written by rich people to support rich people. Once you have approximately one third of an average income stashed away in savings, you can start investing in property or capital. Then you can use negative gearing to pay for your loans, and you are effectively being paid by the State to be rich. But I'm veering off on a tangent. TL;DR: if PLEX prices are causing you concern, you need to adjust your handling of money within the game and learn to use your money to make money. A billion ISK invested in the market (and a decent hauling ship) will make you more money in the long run than a billion ISK invested in a mission-running ship. Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players
Salvos Rhoska 1117	Posted - 2014.04.22 12:40:00 - [233] - Quote Ramona McCandless wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Salvos Rhoska wrote: Ramona McCandless wrote: Salvos Rhoska wrote: it is nonetheless clear that "something" has changed. That much is clear. Nope The denial is strong in this one. Its Ramona's Nope Day. Inflation, bro. Nothing "changed", it's the same thing it always has been. Its ok, he seems to think Im in denial, but he's the one arguing non-facts simply because others ascribe to facts. Inflation is a sum total of other facts. Something has changed, resulting in a rate of inflation above and beyond what was before. Logically, it can be deduced it is the result of substantially less PLEX entering the market. Meaning less people are buying PLEX from CCP, than are buying them ingame. Meaning less people are prepared to fund their ingame experience, by means of buying PLEX. The alternstive is more people subbing through PLEX, than before. These peiple, howeverm are now ****, because they relied on a proportionate influx of PLEXinto the game Their alternatives are to cut accounts, earn more effieicently, or to buy GTC. Reasons for this inflation are unclear. But if less people are buying PLEX, it is, in all considerations, an indicator of decline in interest in the game. Secondary effect is as PLEX cost rises ingame, less people will be able to sub their accounts througb ISK for PLEX, meaning less active accounts. Its a negative economic indicator. Its not a good sign for the sustainability of the PLEX system for purposes of subbing, and unless the buyers of PLEX increase, as a result of its ISK value increasing, in poroportiin to the number of accounts that are lost due to being unabletoPLEX themselves from ingame activities, it translates directly into a reduced subbed account figure for EVE, which is equivakent also to reduced investor interest. This is an indicator of imbalance.It is an indicator of those players who previously bought PLEX with money, withdrawing from that, and leaving that part of the community who relied on them to bring PLEX into the market, to take up the slack. Will they? Unlikely.Their customer behavior ahows a trend for preferring to sub their accounts through ingame PLEX. ------------**
Ramona McCandless The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity 3541	Posted - 2014.04.22 12:46:00 - [234] - Quote Salvos Rhoska wrote: . So.... your point is that its not inflation because its inflation. Gotcha. * Vote MTU For CSM * *Free The Jita 1* "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius
March rabbit Federal Defense Union 1453	Posted - 2014.04.22 12:50:00 - [235] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Katran Luftschreck wrote: Soshala Garemoko wrote: do u think honesly the PLEAX prices are magic and that it comes from no where? poeple buy PLEX and sell it into the game so they pay more to CCCP for the PLEX than they do to subscribe. why does this make since to you that they would do this to make moere money? 1) If CCP wants to magically make a hundred PLEX poof into existence then yes, they can do exactly that. 2) Computers, how do they work? Must be witchcraft! 3) The word for the day is "school." Look it up, sometime. Whilst they can, they don't. Those PLEX are confiscated from RMTers and other EULA violaters. one can believe but: - all what we know is: CCP can do this. - all we have is: CCP's word that they don't The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Salvos Rhoska 1119	Posted - 2014.04.22 13:05:00 - [236] - Quote Ramona McCandless wrote: Salvos Rhoska wrote: . So.... your point is that its not inflation because its inflation. Gotcha. Inflation is never a "good" thing. Its, however, a necessary, commensurate and consequent evil. By analogy, its not dissimilar to the human experience of growing old. Yes, you have more value. You appreciate in terms of experience of the world etc. But at the same time, in relation, your capacity to enact any of what you have gained, becomes smaller. More value, less effect. Same thing with inflation. More value, but less purchasing power. All economics are in a constant battle against inflation. Just as all people are in a battle against becoming redundant by age. In economics, this is accounted for by a complex system of checks and balances. It is how our systems evolve, adapt and improve to supersede the preceding models. PLEX, in EVE, is in many ways similar to interest rates, IRL. When there is high confidence in the system, people take many loans, and interest remains low as a function of demand. However, when confidence drops, people stop taking loans, banks stop giving them, and interest rises to compensate for reduced demand. If people are not buying PLEX from CCP anymore, that is a worrisome problem, with wide-ranging effects, the most immediate of which is the reduced capacity of other players reliant on them for those PLEXs for purchase with ISK, to have to reconsider whether they can maintain their accounts. If PLEX price increased at a slow, gradual and predictable amount, it could be surmised that the economy is healthy. But when it erratically jumps in either direction, it is an indicator that something has changed in the economic situation. This is not a "good" thing for EVE. Sure, some people with PLEX reserves, can benefit. Sure, those people who buy PLEX, can now benefit more. But it is inherently so. as evidenced by the fact that PLEX is rising in the first place, that people are NOT buyin PLEX from CCP, proportionately, at the rate that they used to, as compared to the populace consuming them with ISK. Its bad. No if ands or buts about it. ------------
Ramona McCandless The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity 3553	Posted - 2014.04.22 13:12:00 - [237] - Quote Salvos Rhoska wrote: If people are not buying PLEX from CCP anymore, that is a worrisome problem, with wide-ranging effects, the most immediate of which is the reduced capacity of other players reliant on them for those PLEXs for purchase with ISK, to have to reconsider whether they can maintain their accounts. If PLEX price increased at a slow, gradual and predictable amount, it could be surmised that the economy is healthy. But when it erratically jumps in either direction, it is an indicator that something has changed in the economic situation. What an amazingly stupid reading of the situation I would have dealt with this politely, but decided to return the favour of your emotional reaction earlier :) * Vote MTU For CSM * *Free The Jita 1* "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 1262	Posted - 2014.04.22 13:14:00 - [238] - Quote Ramona McCandless wrote: So.... your point is that its not inflation because its inflation. Gotcha. More like it's not inflation because it's not caused by the pressures that cause inflation. It's caused by market pressures on supply & demand. Entirely different causes.
Lucas Kell JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance 3252	Posted - 2014.04.22 13:30:00 - [239] - Quote Salvos Rhoska wrote: If PLEX price increased at a slow, gradual and predictable amount, it could be surmised that the economy is healthy. But when it erratically jumps in either direction, it is an indicator that something has changed in the economic situation. It IS increasing "at a slow, gradual and predictable amount". Sure, there are things like fanfest causing the usual annual spike in the same way that real economies don't increase at exactly the same rate every single day of the year, but the overall trend is a steady upwards trend. Seriously, there's graphs for this stuff. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Ramona McCandless The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity 3557	Posted - 2014.04.22 13:32:00 - [240] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Ramona McCandless wrote: So.... your point is that its not inflation because its inflation. Gotcha. More like it's not inflation because it's not caused by the pressures that cause inflation. It's caused by market pressures on supply & demand. Entirely different causes. Yes, I was saying that Salvos was wrong. Again. * Vote MTU For CSM * *Free The Jita 1* "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius

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