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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Ixtab.
1647
|
Posted - 2014.08.03 23:32:00 -
[241] - Quote
Sith1s Spectre wrote:I actually like the change.
No more risk adverse people easily rolling holes
yeah why wouldn't the people from big corps like it? Easier to catch hostile collapsing capitals and they have the numbers to roll in battleships. Win! +1 |
Sith1s Spectre
Hard Knocks Inc.
1125
|
Posted - 2014.08.03 23:41:00 -
[242] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:Sith1s Spectre wrote:I actually like the change.
No more risk adverse people easily rolling holes yeah why wouldn't the people from big corps like it? Easier to catch hostile collapsing capitals and they have the numbers to roll in battleships. Win!
For dreads, it's stupidly OP. Jump through the hole, instantly in optimal @ 40km away.
Let the blapfest begin! AU tz best tz
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ExookiZ
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
267
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Posted - 2014.08.03 23:46:00 -
[243] - Quote
Sith1s Spectre wrote:I actually like the change.
No more risk adverse people easily rolling holes
I would rather have them rolling holes than possing up and logging off.
This change wont promote pvp, people will just stop rolling whs even more, and itll make it harder to successfully gank people. The Wormhole Kid |
Senn Denroth
Lazerhawks
204
|
Posted - 2014.08.03 23:51:00 -
[244] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Good afternoon everyone.
We are indeed working on some changes to how ships spawn when they jump through wormholes. This is one part of a series of wormhole iterations we are working on and that we will be publishing a dev blog on soon. We will be looking for player feedback at that time. The version of the code that is on SISI is absolutely not the final version, and is not running final numbers (the ranges we are working with internally are quite a bit closer than what is on this build of SISI).
We'll be posting a dev blog with the whole collection of proposed changes next week and we will be very interested in taking your feedback then. In the meantime I advise you all to not panic. Nobody is out to get you.
Hope you all have a great weekend.
Wow this makes it hard for me because I have to move all my ships out to kspace and unsub my accounts.
AOE 2 has been on special for $5, that's right guys, FIVE DOLLARS!! Get on that! Best fun I've ever had in a long time.
P.S. I know you have to try and make content to keep your job Fozzie, but the self-destructive nature in which the game has been changed lately will be costing you all your jobs. Sorry to say but yea, every large wormhole space entity can see it now that we're in the final days of EVE. |
Hayley Enaka
Hard Knocks Inc.
38
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Posted - 2014.08.03 23:58:00 -
[245] - Quote
I think it's not an awful idea just too extreme in its current implementation. I feel like CCP is simply trying to make ships more vulnerable around wormholes rather than always having the freedom of jumping to the other side. Putting caps 40km away however is complete suicide when dropping them outside jump range at say 5 - 10km serves the same purpose without making it completely unrealistic to use them. |
epicurus ataraxia
Lazerhawks
858
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Posted - 2014.08.03 23:58:00 -
[246] - Quote
Fozzie, There has been quite an outpouring of negative feelings regarding this change.
It appears to offer no positive features and a host of negative side effects, which are more like major destructive features than side effects.
Whatever the range you decide on will only make it more or less of a unwanted idea. Never a wanted one.
It seems that this will actually have entirely the opposite effect to the one you wish to see.
It is very hard to see where this Idea could have come from, as only a very very few could benefit from such a change, and only until there were no victims left for them to cull.
Being able to rage roll holes MORE easily will add to content, not implementing changes designed to make it as difficult and unpleasant as possible.
Here is something Many would actually like, A little suggestion that you can consider or ignore as you choose.
The NESTOR lacks desirability in wormholes, you seem committed to it never having a covert ops cloak, So as an alternative, Give it variable mass. switchable between Low mass like a double bubbled HIC, and the mass of an orca or capital.
EVERY wormhole corp would IMMEDIATELY buy a minimum of 2 or 3, as rolling multiple holes is neither pleasant or fun, we just looked long and hard and found a painful and awkward way to do it.
Please Do not make bad features even worse.... please give us the tools for US to make our game better. There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
Dark Armata
Bookmark Both Sides Exit Strategy..
105
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Posted - 2014.08.04 00:04:00 -
[247] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Good afternoon everyone.
We are indeed working on some changes to how ships spawn when they jump through wormholes. This is one part of a series of wormhole iterations we are working on and that we will be publishing a dev blog on soon. We will be looking for player feedback at that time. The version of the code that is on SISI is absolutely not the final version, and is not running final numbers (the ranges we are working with internally are quite a bit closer than what is on this build of SISI).
We'll be posting a dev blog with the whole collection of proposed changes next week and we will be very interested in taking your feedback then. In the meantime I advise you all to not panic. Nobody is out to get you.
Hope you all have a great weekend.
Going to be 100% honest here.
The part in italics scares the absolute living **** out of me.
Experience has shown that once developer time and effort (read:money) has been spent on something it is the exception rather than the rule that it won't make it into the game.
Proposed changes that have already made it to the test server, but don't worry we will want your feedback next week.
If this change is any indication to the collection of proposed changes, well all I can say is GG if your goal is making wormholes the new null. Where only the biggest groups can prosper.
Glad I haven't brought my tickets to Eve Down Under yet.
Signature block has been modified. W-Space WAS Best Space |
Alundil
Isogen 5
623
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Posted - 2014.08.04 00:09:00 -
[248] - Quote
Sith1s Spectre wrote:Rek Seven wrote:Sith1s Spectre wrote:I actually like the change.
No more risk adverse people easily rolling holes yeah why wouldn't the people from big corps like it? Easier to catch hostile collapsing capitals and they have the numbers to roll in battleships. Win! For dreads, it's stupidly OP. Jump through the hole, instantly in optimal @ 40km away. Let the blapfest begin!
Except you won't be able to track what you're shooting at because your subcap web support is 30km on the opposite side of the hole and your targets are spiraling in on you with incoming neuts and DPS. Oh, and you're capxfer supporrt? They're 80km from you. They might as well be on the opposite side of New Eden for all the good they'll do you when the neuts cap you out and you die.
So much for the afterglow (and the optimal).
And a question Sith, all those times we rolled a hole (SF and RLLO)....we must have been risk averse too huh? Because it's not about risk aversion at this point but a crap mechanic being added "for the lolz" that will simply cause fewer holes to be rolled overall resulting in fewer targets found.
I'm right behind you |
Kalel Nimrott
1115
|
Posted - 2014.08.04 00:20:00 -
[249] - Quote
ExookiZ wrote:Sith1s Spectre wrote:I actually like the change.
No more risk adverse people easily rolling holes I would rather have them rolling holes than possing up and logging off. This change wont promote pvp, people will just stop rolling whs even more, and itll make it harder to successfully gank people.
This. Brasil, decime qu+¬ se siente / tener en casa a tu pap+í / Te juro, que aunque pasen los a+¦os / nunca nos vamos a olvidar / Que el Diego te gambete+¦ / que Cani te vacun+¦ / que est+ís llorando desde Italia hasta hoy |
Winthorp
2454
|
Posted - 2014.08.04 00:23:00 -
[250] - Quote
ExookiZ wrote:Sith1s Spectre wrote:I actually like the change.
No more risk adverse people easily rolling holes I would rather have them rolling holes than possing up and logging off. This change wont promote pvp, people will just stop rolling whs even more, and itll make it harder to successfully gank people.
Well no what they do now is they warp a dread and Orca and roll it in your face while you sit their twiddling your thumbs unable to do **** all about it unless you got a bubble up in which case they always see the bubble and log off anyway. |
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Kalel Nimrott
1115
|
Posted - 2014.08.04 00:25:00 -
[251] - Quote
Agree, Winthorp, the way it is now is not perfect, but at least it doesn't **** up the pvpeers when they want to find content. This change will do it. So its a matter of which one is the lesser evil. Brasil, decime qu+¬ se siente / tener en casa a tu pap+í / Te juro, que aunque pasen los a+¦os / nunca nos vamos a olvidar / Que el Diego te gambete+¦ / que Cani te vacun+¦ / que est+ís llorando desde Italia hasta hoy |
Caleb Seremshur
The Atomic Fallout Kids
341
|
Posted - 2014.08.04 00:30:00 -
[252] - Quote
The idea isn't terrible for solo players though. Maybe do the reverse? Capitals spawn near the hole and frigates spawn up to 40km out? This gives the traveling noob much more leeway to escape.
Maybe CCP want wormholes to gain more activity by eroding the big players and making solo/small gang activity more viable and not simply gank bait.
Wormholes were not meant for permanent habitation, you've said it yourselves. Maybe now the "bug" of permanent wormhole corps will be patched. Or maybe it won't. Who cares? You wanted change and now you've got it and maybe there needs to be a hurricane or two to the established order of things before rebuilding in a better way can happen. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=348015 T3 OHing subsystem review and rebalance https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=290346 LP faction weapon store costs rebalancing
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Winthorp
2454
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Posted - 2014.08.04 00:32:00 -
[253] - Quote
I think we can all agree the current WH Meta is stale and boring, the only way the large entities ever fight now is if you completely scout each other 3 times over leading to 40min form up times to perfectly counter each others growing jabber ping or you catch each other with their pants down.
Their needs to be more unpredictability in Wh's to force groups out of their comfort zones and catch them with their pants down.
Personally i think the number for a dread could be better serving this goal at 15-20 and not 40 but it will do. This whole lets just roll the chain attitude when ever people see someone in chain they are not prepared to fight needs to have some level of danger added to it so your assets are actually at risk when rolling a hole to achieve a new safe chain.
As for the rage rolling (My favorite pastime) yeah it would take a hit to the time it takes to rage roll but it means you will have to warp the dread and Orca away and back to the hole to complete the roll. but if you are rage rolling properly you should have your support fleet at the ready anyway right? (Not playing CS waiting for the scouts to find rage rolling action) right?
Hell this even makes it great for people that are warping **** through chains, no more safety on HS holes, no more insta webbing Orcas through chains (you will have to burn your webber closer to the Orca).
All in all i think this adds some more danger to Wh space and the people that are crying about how this will limit WH PVP are out right ******* delusional. |
Kalel Nimrott
1116
|
Posted - 2014.08.04 00:34:00 -
[254] - Quote
Sari Jasra wrote:Where were you when wormholes was kill?
In a C3 with a hisec static..., pathetic... Brasil, decime qu+¬ se siente / tener en casa a tu pap+í / Te juro, que aunque pasen los a+¦os / nunca nos vamos a olvidar / Que el Diego te gambete+¦ / que Cani te vacun+¦ / que est+ís llorando desde Italia hasta hoy |
Nelly Uanos
Quebec's Underdog League Quebec United Legions
23
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Posted - 2014.08.04 00:36:00 -
[255] - Quote
Alundil wrote:Sith1s Spectre wrote:Rek Seven wrote:Sith1s Spectre wrote:I actually like the change.
No more risk adverse people easily rolling holes yeah why wouldn't the people from big corps like it? Easier to catch hostile collapsing capitals and they have the numbers to roll in battleships. Win! For dreads, it's stupidly OP. Jump through the hole, instantly in optimal @ 40km away. Let the blapfest begin! Except you won't be able to track what you're shooting at because your subcap web support is 30km on the opposite side of the hole and your targets are spiraling in on you with incoming neuts and DPS. Oh, and you're capxfer supporrt? They're 80km from you. They might as well be on the opposite side of New Eden for all the good they'll do you when the neuts cap you out and you die. So much for the afterglow (and the optimal). And a question Sith, all those times we rolled a hole (SF and RLLO)....we must have been risk averse too huh? Because it's not about risk aversion at this point but a crap mechanic being added "for the lolz" that will simply cause fewer holes to be rolled overall resulting in fewer targets found.
2 Dread jumping at the same time, they could end being like 70km from each other... What do you do now?
Also the current idea is by MASS, your webbing subcap support is going to be nearer to the wormhole than the dread...
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Aelias Zero
Jaded.
12
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Posted - 2014.08.04 00:46:00 -
[256] - Quote
Kynric wrote:Aelias Zero wrote:Makes it easier to camp a wormhole and nothing more. Also makes it so the smaller corps/fleets have less control in picking their fights.
-1 to the idea, all this is going to do is frustrate lots of people and get them to leave an already-empty wormhole space. You might have more control and better opportunities as a small gang as you can more easily get outside of scram range and if you fall back through you have new disengagement options which you do not have now.
That's a fair point. My line of thinking is that a smaller fleet is forced to spread out more, whereas a larger fleet has a better overall density allowing them to converge on the smaller fleet.
Another issue I'm seeing is the risk-averse being less likely to use caps for fleet fights and not-so-experienced corps losing a cap to a 40k WH kickout and calling it quits.
Basically, it lowers my pool of potential targets.
That said, there are some good and valid points both for and neutral over the potential change, so it's not like my opinion is completely thought out, just what I think about a few aspects. "Is probably the best person alive." -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á -Ron Paul |
Winthorp
2454
|
Posted - 2014.08.04 00:46:00 -
[257] - Quote
Kalel Nimrott wrote:
Winthrop, the new meta is stable and boring, but the solution is not to kill organized pvp in wspace out of existence. And wormholes arent unpredictable. They are hard to figure it out and control which is different.
I have read all the above reasons in this thread on how this will kill WH PVP bla bla bla, its all bullshit reasons that can be overcome with a little more effort. People just want to be able to rage roll with little effort, find **** to gank send jabber ping and win or they want to find a Wh entity and they do either of two things they roll the Wh in their face with no recourse (NO DANGER) or they jump said fleet through and see how they go with a little skirmish and jump home to preserve the rest of the fleet if it isn't going so well for them.. that's pretty gay mechanics.
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Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2036
|
Posted - 2014.08.04 00:50:00 -
[258] - Quote
Instead of just ranting, has anyone come up with a good way to prevent bears from collapsing holes before their visit to the money tree?
W-Space was supposed to be a wild and dangerous place, not a place you live in to get your PvE on.
For people saying this will run PvP, the only question I have is, what PvP? ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Kirasten
No Vacancies
21
|
Posted - 2014.08.04 00:51:00 -
[259] - Quote
Viscis Breeze wrote:Quote: This is one part of a series of wormhole iterations Can you please just fix POSs, alliance bookmarks and all the other little things wrong with wormhole space instead of just try to change database numbers and package it as a wormhole space overhaul. Once again CCP strikes with an un-thought-out, arbitrary change which will do more harm than good.
Or in lieu of that, just LEAVE US ALONE.
I would rather they not change anything in w-space than their continued idea to "fix" things. |
BayneNothos
United Electro-Magnetic Federation Business Alliance of Manufacturers and Miners
98
|
Posted - 2014.08.04 00:51:00 -
[260] - Quote
I'll go through this thread fully later. But for now first thoughts.
You're currently spit out between 0 and 10km in a bell curve. Will CCP be grabbing the outside end of the bell curve and adjusting that or will CCP be making "bands" by moving both ends based on ship class. As a Battleship slinger, this makes me sad. It's already hard to find times to use them. Really need numbers here. Fozzie can you drop the current thoughts on numbers down like now please. Earlier you do it the less people freak out. Can see an upside if CovOPs are always spawning inside the WH itself. No more auto cloaky run away for you. I guess this ends any kind of non Logi RR gangs. RIP Domi. Hello Nestor?
If you're doing this, maybe add common directionality to the spawn locations so fleets stick together? As in if you're on the true north side of the WH when you jump you pop out on the south side, give or take a bit of an angle?
Doing the opposite of your current thoughts could be an interesting idea. The heavier the closer to the WH. Catching Covops is already hard so throw them out there while allowing the heavy stuff to have the safety of the WH.
Since you're tweaking anyway, make the polarisation timer based off something on the ship too. Sensor Strength would be my preference. Higher = lower timer. |
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Winthorp
2454
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Posted - 2014.08.04 00:54:00 -
[261] - Quote
corbexx wrote:Retar Aveymone wrote: This seems like a good change that will cause a lot more interesting choices. please explain whats good about it and the more interesting choices. please also apply them to. c1 wh's, c2 to c4 wh's and then c5 to c6 wh's also please take in to account farmers and pvpers. Small groups that live in the lower class wh's and bigger groups in the higher class wh's.
I will.
So currently most groups in C2,3,4 roll with stabbed and jam fit Scorpions with verry little danger at all and if they don't roll holes like this then they are doing it wrong as it currently stands.
This will also help smaller groups that like to PVP, no longer will they catch someone with their pants down only for that person to sit cloaked at the WH with two sets of cloak timers giving them extra time to wait until backup arrives from their C5/6, instead they will be 15km's off the hole dying to that C2 guy with him and his mate having a go at PVP.
The only guy i feel gets screwed on this mechanic is the guy living in a C1 (Lets face it they are mostly reaction farms anyway) or the guy with a C1 static. |
Caleb Seremshur
The Atomic Fallout Kids
342
|
Posted - 2014.08.04 01:02:00 -
[262] - Quote
I live in a c1 black hole and I don't see this negatively affecting me in any way really. Infact I think it's great. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=348015 T3 OHing subsystem review and rebalance https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=290346 LP faction weapon store costs rebalancing
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Jack Miton
Isogen 5
3562
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Posted - 2014.08.04 01:04:00 -
[263] - Quote
whoever's check on sisi, how far are BSs, T3s and covops spawning from holes respectively? (no, im not going to go on sis to check myself) Stuck In Here With Me:-á http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/ Down the Pipe:-á http://downthepipe-wh.com/ |
Indrid Hot
Forever Winter Absolute Zero.
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.04 01:07:00 -
[264] - Quote
Stance: Against I speak for my alliance roughly 150 toons strong. Please no, this would make rage rolling to find a hs or closing wh's to run in home sites needlessly difficult, as someone mentioned it would make us less likely to even put a cap through a hole for pvp. I know ccp likes to see ships destroyed to keep eve's industry gears turning, but in all honesty this will put the brakes on it. Half of my team honestly thought this was a joke, and one dude said something about needing to bludgeon someone. As it stands with new updates there are usually things that happen to wh's even when patchnotes make no mention of wh's being affected. Lets recap: 1. Use of enemy encounter surveilance system in wh's. (Broke wh's as you could set that up on a hole, and it would immediately announce in local whenever someone entered) 2. Wh's not dissapearing after expiring. (when trying to jump through an expired wh you were caught in a temporal rift and your ships image dissappeared. Only fix was to relog) 3. The wub-wub's. (Initiating warp to a hole would cause it to make an activation sound. Even if warp was canceled. This was actually hilarious as one toon could intimidate a few people camping a hole by repeatedly doing this, making them think a huge fleet was incomming) So my point is, with many new big releases there are many glitches changes we need to deal with, lets not do this one. If anything I would say, lets open up for debate maybe sov in wh space... or fixing pos code? Please fix pos code before anything. I have been shot by my own pos before.. I've setup a TCU above my pos with a bunch of cans around it and a bubble as a bug-zapper. In the entire time I was out there setting it up, the pos didnt even try to lock me. I warped off and came back to see if it would pull me out of warp like I wanted.. and the pos shot me real quick. |
Winthorp
2454
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Posted - 2014.08.04 01:08:00 -
[265] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:(no, im not going to go on sis to check myself)
This change was meant for lazy people like you jack.... I kid i kid.
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Dark Armata
Bookmark Both Sides Exit Strategy..
108
|
Posted - 2014.08.04 01:10:00 -
[266] - Quote
Winthorp wrote:ExookiZ wrote:Sith1s Spectre wrote:I actually like the change.
No more risk adverse people easily rolling holes I would rather have them rolling holes than possing up and logging off. This change wont promote pvp, people will just stop rolling whs even more, and itll make it harder to successfully gank people. Well no what they do now is they warp a dread and Orca and roll it in your face while you sit their twiddling your thumbs unable to do **** all about it unless you got a bubble up in which case they always see the bubble and log off anyway.
Plenty you can do.
Cross jump leaving tackle on your side. Safe log own dread on wormhole log on when they enter warp and cross jump with that. Mass games.
The point about rage rolling isn't that it will be more dangerous because as you say you should have your full fleet with you. But will make it take longer and more tedious.
W-Space WAS Best Space |
Winthorp
2454
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Posted - 2014.08.04 01:10:00 -
[267] - Quote
Indrid Hot wrote:Stance: Against I speak for my alliance roughly 150 toons strong. Please no, this would make rage rolling to find a hs or closing wh's to run in home sites needlessly difficult, as someone mentioned it would make us less likely to even put a cap through a hole for pvp. I know ccp likes to see ships destroyed to keep eve's industry gears turning, but in all honesty this will put the brakes on it. Half of my team honestly thought this was a joke, and one dude said something about needing to bludgeon someone. As it stands with new updates there are usually things that happen to wh's even when patchnotes make no mention of wh's being affected. Lets recap:
So as it stands your 150 strong group currently like to stick your cap through whatever wh you are pvping through just to jump it back when it gets too risky for you?
So your 150man group can't protect your dread while you are rage rolling for the HS?
Why are you in WH space again? |
Winthorp
2454
|
Posted - 2014.08.04 01:12:00 -
[268] - Quote
Dark Armata wrote:Winthorp wrote:ExookiZ wrote:Sith1s Spectre wrote:I actually like the change.
No more risk adverse people easily rolling holes I would rather have them rolling holes than possing up and logging off. This change wont promote pvp, people will just stop rolling whs even more, and itll make it harder to successfully gank people. Well no what they do now is they warp a dread and Orca and roll it in your face while you sit their twiddling your thumbs unable to do **** all about it unless you got a bubble up in which case they always see the bubble and log off anyway. Plenty you can do. Cross jump leaving tackle on your side. Safe log own dread on wormhole log on when they enter warp and cross jump with that. Mass games. The point about rage rolling isn't that it will be more dangerous because as you say you should have your full fleet with you. But will make it take longer and more tedious.
So what if it takes you more time to do it, i don't really think thats a concern. Should you really be able to do it that fast that you are able to roll into a dangerous entities home WH and roll away with not a thing they can do to you?
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The Cue
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
29
|
Posted - 2014.08.04 01:20:00 -
[269] - Quote
CCP,
I love the fact that you're finally taking a bit of a look at wormholes, we wormholers have felt a little left behind as you've changed a lot, but haven't really visited wormholes. However, I want to point out I think that this change is going in a slightly wrong direction. May I suggest a mirror of what you plan? So, capitals that jump spawn right on top, while subcaps spawn farther and farther away.
The advantage to this is two fold. First, it makes logistics to live in a WH still quite possible, and not horribly painful.
Secondly, and more importantly, it will actually cause a change in the metagame, which is something that I feel WHs need badly. With your currently suggested changes, armor tanked brawling ships will continue to be the only real desirable fleet type. Since subcaps will still come out in web range, there will be nothing to really motivate a meta change allowing other fleet comps. If the lighter subcaps were to appear on the other side of a hole at significant enough range, kiting comps would become viable.
This has the side effect of making battleships potentially viable, as they appear closer, compared to their T3 counterparts.
If your objective is to make rolling a WH much harder, then it would be much better to do so using a different mechanic |
Kraesk
4U Services Inc. Upholders
1
|
Posted - 2014.08.04 01:22:00 -
[270] - Quote
No. Just... No. If you want to make some changes to WH's, fine, but ASK US what we want, don't make an arbitrary and seemingly not-thought-out decision which breaks a fundamental way we all interact with our world. |
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