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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Ya Huei
Imperial Collective
Unsettled.
171
   |
Posted - 2014.08.05 10:11:00 -
[571] - Quote
Papa Django wrote: stuff..
If you want to close wormholes by using cruisers exclusively be my guest, I don't see why CCP should cater to that kind of risk averse playstyle though. you have the option to use orca's and battleships.
Also mass addition MWD/AB is exactly identical smartass.
|
Papa Django
CosmoTeK LTD
La Division Bleue
5
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 10:21:00 -
[572] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:
To move the discussion on, we all need to accept that rolling with capitals will no longer be viable, so with that out the way, what are the remaining problems?
THIS is THE major issue.
Rolling with caps or Orca not possible means a lot of time needed to roll connexions.
Rolling connexion easily (it means in a few mins) for small/mid corps is MANDATORY.
It is less an issue for big corp directly, because they have the numbers.
So game experience is lower and for small group it can totally break game experience.
Look this, i usually connect around 21/22pm and for a 2<->4 hours session duration. If i have to waste more then half of that time to find a proper hole for what we need/want to do, there is no interest to play.
I will find another game. The highsec is boring, the lowsec is boring, the nullsec is in stasis.
No more easy game mechanics -> i leave.
This is simple, i have not the time to spend on this kind of designer caprice.
A game must be fluid. Rolling cnx makes the wh life fluid and keep all the danger you have in wh. This already a very dangerous game area. The only effect is to push out the small/mid corps.
If the game designer decides that this game is playable only for 100+ members corps, please tell us now. I will leave this probably very soon.
But tell us.
CCP cannot tweak a MAJOR GAME MECHANIC for an ENTIRE AREA OF THE GAME without communication.
Someone was talking about respect, CCP is lacking of respect. We are customers, we pay for this. CCP need to communicate on this NOW. It is not a proper way to do things.
CCP don't respect me, why should i respect it ?
They do the things properly for Crius.
Everything was explained well, the reasons, with data & facts, what it was planned, etc ...
WTF is this **** for WH ???? |
Papa Django
CosmoTeK LTD
La Division Bleue
6
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 10:28:00 -
[573] - Quote
Ya Huei wrote:Papa Django wrote: stuff.. If you want to close wormholes by using cruisers exclusively be my guest, I don't see why CCP should cater to that kind of risk averse playstyle though. you have the option to use orca's and battleships.
Take a breath, read the conversation again, and read again what you have written.
I have never said that i want to collapse with cruiser. I said i collapse with Orca. Then YOU suggest me to collapse with cruiser and then i prove to yourself that it will takes all the night for a small corp ... |
Ya Huei
Imperial Collective
Unsettled.
171
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 10:34:00 -
[574] - Quote
Ye.. I don't plan to derail this thread any further, you clearly misread or failed to read my initial post. |
Pavel Sohaj
Anoikis Exploration
11
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 10:37:00 -
[575] - Quote
I do sincerely pray for the same mechanic to be applied to cynos and titan bridges.
Then read the flame complaint thread where we from WH fuel it. Oh boy.
Also if closing with cruiser :D might as well log off, ALL day unless you get alot of peeps. |
epicurus ataraxia
Lazerhawks
868
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 10:42:00 -
[576] - Quote
Ok there seems to be a logic failiure occuring here with some of the thinking.
Some seem to want wormholes to be more dangerous, because........?
Some seem to believe they are fields of gold for "farmers" and they should be punished somehow and forced to be either victims or fight.
And some believe if this was somehow done that there would be unlimited PVP and all would be well with wormhole space...........
Complete insanity.
If you drive farmers out, and making things unpleasant will do this, then there is No one to shoot.
Some great fights happen with people others might label as farmers, true farmers left long ago or get evicted. If one Makes things impossible for those who are willing to fight as well as PvE and you have a desert.
Just because CCP did not envision people living in wormholes is not an excuse to ruin them.
If anything, one should enable simpler hole rolling, but in conjunction with a specialised, expensive vessel, not "shaking things up" forcing every vessel into some artificial mechanic, that ruins the game for everyone ( yes everyone, you just haven't realised it yet)
CCP can play with unusual mechanics on this vessel if they see fit, and then players can decide if they are willing to accept the downsides.
Take the Nestor for example, or even the rocqual and allow it to be fit with modules that square the mass, and others that make the mass the square root when engaged. Let the distance from hole on jumpthrough depend on mass so it can choose distance at the cost of reducing the hole. Let it also have a beacon that can be engaged on this ship so that fleet vehicles when jumping the hole come out within 1Km of it's beacon. If the ship is destroyed, then another ships beacon (backup or an enemies) could be the land point.
Make it so that fitting any of these modules prevent the fitting of any type of cloak on this ship.
Finally, give the ship an immunity to the catch effect of drag/stop bubbles. Still unable to warp within it, just the catch effect, and it's beacon overpowers the catch effect locally for ships in fleet.
This allows crashing out of a wormhole, ( with a little thought, there are tactics to counter this so it is not an "I Win escape")
Then you have a Spacial displacement domination vessel.
This would allow hole crashing, hole defence, forcing through holecamps under heavy fire, and hole control for a fleet, without ruining all other gameplay for other ships.
Yes great risks will be involved in it's use, but the risks are consistent with it's abilities, and manageable with clever play and tactics. BY BOTH SIDES.
The idea is that there are now new tactics for hole control, tactics to crash through a defended hole, and new tactics to prevent that. And all without just making things even more of a pain for everyone with twisted artificial mechanics.
In short you give the players a tool to make things more interesting. And rewarding intelligent tactics.
This is not perfect, or finalised, but the core of an idea that can be fleshed out, that achieves many of the wishes to improve the opportunity for players to meet in a dynamic manner, without destroying the core wormhole mechanics for every ship.
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol
Ixtab.
1669
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 10:44:00 -
[577] - Quote
I understand what you mean by ccp showing a lack of consideration for the wormhole community. Usually a change posted and discussed on the features and ideas forum but they didn't see fit to do it this time.
Could you explain why rolling is "mandatory" for your corp? What class of wormhole do you live in? How many active people do you have in your peak time zone?
+1 |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol
Ixtab.
1669
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 10:51:00 -
[578] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
If you drive farmers out, and making things unpleasant will do this, then there is No one to shoot.
Some great fights happen with people others might label as farmers, true farmers left long ago or get evicted. If one Makes things impossible for those who are willing to fight as well as PvE and you have a desert.
How does this change make it impossible for farmers to run sites?
Instead of them criting the hole or rolling it and using the exploit of not warping to the new wormhole so it doesn't spawn, can't they just anchor a bubble and or put a scout on the WH?
+1 |
Faren Shalni
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
12
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 10:56:00 -
[579] - Quote
So CCP want to screw around with the only working and dynamic space in the game (btw t3 meta is due to a lack of viable options to use as alternatives)
This change only helps cloaky hunters and Large corps as they are, the only ones who can take advantage of this and even then, it will be for a limited time only until the lack of content, from not rolling your chain, drives people out of WH's.
If CCP think this will change WH meta then quite frankly it wont. we already use subcap doctrines so we just will use them more often. as to rolling we will just move on to another method and keep on rolling or just not bother.
This is a big nerf to content, and sure in the short term it will provide more content but in the long run it will reduce it significantly as people just stop using capitals to roll and just leave their chains alone and play another game (which 90% of WHers already do) |
epicurus ataraxia
Lazerhawks
870
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 10:57:00 -
[580] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:epicurus ataraxia wrote:
If you drive farmers out, and making things unpleasant will do this, then there is No one to shoot.
Some great fights happen with people others might label as farmers, true farmers left long ago or get evicted. If one Makes things impossible for those who are willing to fight as well as PvE and you have a desert.
How does this change make it impossible for farmers to run sites? Wouldn't less farming increase the value of sleeper salvage and solve the income issue with low class wormholes? Instead of them criting the hole or rolling it and using the exploit of not warping to the new wormhole so it doesn't spawn, can't they just anchor a bubble or put a scout on the WH?
When one describes a core wormhole mechanic as an exploit, then nothing said will influence your thinking. Pity.
But I will try, this is not referring to making running sites impossible, it is about making functional wormhole life impossible.
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
Pavel Sohaj
Anoikis Exploration
12
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 10:59:00 -
[581] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:epicurus ataraxia wrote:
If you drive farmers out, and making things unpleasant will do this, then there is No one to shoot.
Some great fights happen with people others might label as farmers, true farmers left long ago or get evicted. If one Makes things impossible for those who are willing to fight as well as PvE and you have a desert.
How does this change make it impossible for farmers to run sites? Wouldn't less farming increase the value of sleeper salvage and solve the income issue with low class wormholes? Instead of them criting the hole or rolling it and using the exploit of not warping to the new wormhole so it doesn't spawn, can't they just anchor a bubble or put a scout on the WH?
no offense, but if you think that stops anybody you must be farming empty c1s.
Also no, less farming wouldnt really increase anything. Itd be there still somehow. Why not fix the dont fly no spawn exploit from CCP first (so less abuse) and let people crit the hole and farm in peace.
Whats wrong with that?
If its that bad I am all agaisnt cyno jammers and bubbles on gate in null. Same reason.
And what about incoming WHs? If you manage to anchor bubble before good pvp entity scouts it, it is really a crap crap bunch of noobs with probes. |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol
Ixtab.
1669
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 11:04:00 -
[582] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote:Rek Seven wrote:epicurus ataraxia wrote:
If you drive farmers out, and making things unpleasant will do this, then there is No one to shoot.
Some great fights happen with people others might label as farmers, true farmers left long ago or get evicted. If one Makes things impossible for those who are willing to fight as well as PvE and you have a desert.
How does this change make it impossible for farmers to run sites? Wouldn't less farming increase the value of sleeper salvage and solve the income issue with low class wormholes? Instead of them criting the hole or rolling it and using the exploit of not warping to the new wormhole so it doesn't spawn, can't they just anchor a bubble or put a scout on the WH? When one describes a core wormhole mechanic as an exploit, then nothing said will influence your thinking. Pity. But I will try, this is not referring to making running sites impossible, it is about making functional wormhole life impossible.
Exploit definition: make full use of and derive benefit from (a resource)
Seems like an apt description to me. I can only assume that your unwillingness answer my questions means you have no valid arguments.
+1 |
the Infenro
Edge of Existence
3
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 11:12:00 -
[583] - Quote
calaretu wrote:the Infenro wrote:
However, an easier way to make life more interesting is to randomize the mass on the wormholes. Therefore, instead of being within 10% of (_) Billion mass as it is currently is. I would recommend changing this percentage to 20-40% higher/lower. This would make rapid closing or wormholes a bit more risky since you would have to pay more attention to mass & status of wormholes. Also might add opportunities to bring in more or less capitals than expected for high-class wormholes, making life more interesting for PvP due to a more randomized nature of wormholes.
Yes, tweeking these numbers would be a far better solution
thx for agreeing with me, and personal i would favor a far larger variance in the size of wormholes, for example if you have a 50% variance on a 3b mass hole (average size for a c5 / c6 static). the mass could be anywhere from 1.5B to 4.5 this would mean that you might be-able to only take 1 capital into a fight, and be able to retrieve it, then again it might mean that you can 2 into a fight their and back, or 4 into a one way fight. while 50% is an extreme example i do feel that making the mass have a larger variance would diffidently change up the game. also it would make closing holes with the cap + orca + bs combo risky since if the hole had any mass used it might close one way on the capital. this would promote people using Intel & paying attention to whats going on and how the wormholes are acting, rather than just making life harder on an already working mechanic.
|
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol
Ixtab.
1669
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 11:13:00 -
[584] - Quote
Pavel Sohaj wrote:... let people crit the hole and farm in peace.
Whats wrong with that?
There's nothing wrong with it but wormholes are supposed to be the most dangerous place to operate, so farming shouldn't be easy or peaceful IMO.
If you want to crit your hole, then you risk your ship getting caught off the hole and if you don't want to take the risk, you bubble your hole in an attempt to slow hostiles down a bit.
+1 |
epicurus ataraxia
Lazerhawks
871
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 11:16:00 -
[585] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:epicurus ataraxia wrote:Rek Seven wrote:epicurus ataraxia wrote:
If you drive farmers out, and making things unpleasant will do this, then there is No one to shoot.
Some great fights happen with people others might label as farmers, true farmers left long ago or get evicted. If one Makes things impossible for those who are willing to fight as well as PvE and you have a desert.
How does this change make it impossible for farmers to run sites? Wouldn't less farming increase the value of sleeper salvage and solve the income issue with low class wormholes? Instead of them criting the hole or rolling it and using the exploit of not warping to the new wormhole so it doesn't spawn, can't they just anchor a bubble or put a scout on the WH? When one describes a core wormhole mechanic as an exploit, then nothing said will influence your thinking. Pity. But I will try, this is not referring to making running sites impossible, it is about making functional wormhole life impossible. Exploit definition: make full use of and derive benefit from (a resource). or Make use of (a situation) in a way considered unfair or underhandSeems like an apt description to me. How does this prevent people from functioning? I agree that it changes the way or what people will do in wormhole space but i disagree that people will not be able to function.
Sorry, disagree with you completely, by your definition all of wormhole space is an exploit. is that what you are trying to say?
Making life as unpleasant as possible, introducing a deliberate new mechanics to do so, (over and above the "accidental " ones that occur ) and disregarding the occupants of wormhole space, are not good decisions either from a respect viewpoint, a practical viewpoint, or a commercial one.
I do not have or choose a role as an educator here. If you are unaware of the current functionality of wormhole life, they can be a very enjoyable lifestyle, I encourage you to try it for a few months, and then you will understand it is a complex fragile ecosystem, where changing the core physics has massive effects.
Try changing the freezing point of water by 2 degrees in the real world and see life expire.
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
Cirillith
Bean-shidh
The Nameless Alliance
15
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 11:23:00 -
[586] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote:Ok there seems to be a logic failiure occuring here with some of the thinking.
Some seem to want wormholes to be more dangerous, because........?
Some seem to believe they are fields of gold for "farmers" and they should be punished somehow and forced to be either victims or fight.
And some believe if this was somehow done that there would be unlimited PVP and all would be well with wormhole space...........
Complete insanity.
If you drive farmers out, and making things unpleasant will do this, then there is No one to shoot.
Some great fights happen with people others might label as farmers, true farmers left long ago or get evicted. If one Makes things impossible for those who are willing to fight as well as PvE and you have a desert.
Just because CCP did not envision people living in wormholes is not an excuse to ruin them.
......
I was going to write something similar here.
C'mon EvE is a sand box. CCP invented W-Space and it should be some exploration environment for group activities. Fine, but your customers used "sandbox" approach and beginning to live there. It wasn't intended by designers, but in pure spirit of SANDBOX became reality
And I fully agree here if anyone who already lives there will be forced to move out to k-space or out of the game - we all gonna loose something, and it will have some impact on whole EvE. How big that impact will be - I don't know. could be small, marginal even but on the other hand it could be big.
About changes - like I wrote few posts before - WE as the WH COMMUNITY will adapt. Whatever changes CCP will throw at us will trigger some new tactics or doctrines. those also will change and improve. Some ppl will go away, some will come to place deserted by leaving ones, but... Main issue here is HOW YOU ARE PLANNING AND IMPLEMENTING CHANGES CCP NOT CHANGES THEMSELVES. |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol
Ixtab.
1669
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 11:24:00 -
[587] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote:Rek Seven wrote:epicurus ataraxia wrote:Rek Seven wrote:epicurus ataraxia wrote:
If you drive farmers out, and making things unpleasant will do this, then there is No one to shoot.
Some great fights happen with people others might label as farmers, true farmers left long ago or get evicted. If one Makes things impossible for those who are willing to fight as well as PvE and you have a desert.
How does this change make it impossible for farmers to run sites? Wouldn't less farming increase the value of sleeper salvage and solve the income issue with low class wormholes? Instead of them criting the hole or rolling it and using the exploit of not warping to the new wormhole so it doesn't spawn, can't they just anchor a bubble or put a scout on the WH? When one describes a core wormhole mechanic as an exploit, then nothing said will influence your thinking. Pity. But I will try, this is not referring to making running sites impossible, it is about making functional wormhole life impossible. Exploit definition: make full use of and derive benefit from (a resource). or Make use of (a situation) in a way considered unfair or underhandSeems like an apt description to me. How does this prevent people from functioning? I agree that it changes the way or what people will do in wormhole space but i disagree that people will not be able to function. Sorry, disagree with you completely, by your definition all of wormhole space is an exploit if you see that as underhand . is that what you are trying to say? Making life as unpleasant as possible, introducing a deliberate new mechanics to do so, (over and above the "accidental " ones that occur ) and disregarding the occupants of wormhole space, are not good decisions either from a respect viewpoint, a practical viewpoint, or a commercial one. I do not have or choose a role as an educator here. If you are unaware of the current functionality of wormhole life, they can be a very enjoyable lifestyle, I encourage you to try it for a few months, and then you will understand it is a complex fragile ecosystem, where changing the core physics has massive effects. Try changing the freezing point of water by 2 degrees in the real world and see life expire.
Dude, right under my name, take a look at the alliance i'm with.... I'm not the one from a scrub alliance so you couldn't even begin to educate me on wormhole space.
Disagree with me all you want and continue to share your personal feelings with everyone but until you answer the questions i originally asked you, i'll take it as you not having any valid arguments.
For your convenience:
How does this change make it impossible for farmers to run sites?
Wouldn't less farming increase the value of sleeper salvage and solve the income issue with low class wormholes?
Instead of them criting the hole or rolling it and using the exploit of not warping to the new wormhole so it doesn't spawn, can't they just anchor a bubble or put a scout on the WH?
+1 |
Papa Django
CosmoTeK LTD
La Division Bleue
8
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 11:25:00 -
[588] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:
Could you explain why rolling is "mandatory" for your corp?
Seriously ?
Ok, maybe CCP will read this, at least i am sure WH CSM is reading this.
Collapsing wh allow me to :
- Close our system if we want to farm or mine ore.
- Close a connexion we don't want if we can. If there is too many hostiles on that hole you cannot close it.
- Reroll the static to get a different content. Looking for, pve, pvp, HS or NS exit.
- Reroll the static because it is end of life and we don't know how many time is remaining.
Rek Seven wrote:
What class of wormhole do you live in?
Something between C1 and C6.
Rek Seven wrote:
How many active people do you have in your peak time zone?
A small number because i am in a small corp. |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol
Ixtab.
1669
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 11:29:00 -
[589] - Quote
Papa Django wrote:Rek Seven wrote:
Could you explain why rolling is "mandatory" for your corp?
Seriously ? Ok, maybe CCP will read this, at least i am sure WH CSM is reading this. Collapsing wh allow me to : - Close our system if we want to farm or mine ore. - Close a connexion we don't want if we can. If there is too many hostiles on that hole you cannot close it. - Reroll the static to get a different content. Looking for, pve, pvp, HS or NS exit. - Reroll the static because it is end of life and we don't know how many time is remaining. Rek Seven wrote:
What class of wormhole do you live in?
Something between C1 and C6. Rek Seven wrote:
How many active people do you have in your peak time zone?
A small number because i am in a small corp.
Well you will be happy to know that you can still do all this but it will be riskier and more time consuming. Glad i could help 
I know it sucks for smaller groups, which is why i think CCP should add a new way to close a hole... but that's a topic for another thread.
+1 |
Papa Django
CosmoTeK LTD
La Division Bleue
8
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 11:37:00 -
[590] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:
Exploit definition: make full use of and derive benefit from (a resource). or Make use of (a situation) in a way considered unfair or underhand
Seems like an apt description to me.
Seems not to me. It is just the whormoles core mechanics.
If CCP consider it as an exploit, they should fix it.
Rek Seven wrote:
How does this prevent people from functioning? I agree that it changes the way or what people will do in wormhole space but i disagree that people will not be able to function.
Yes, you can still move without legs. You can 
This is not an argument.
The main issue is : Something is broken in this game, the safer place in all EVE is the renters zone in nullsec. Even highsec is more dangerous.
W-Space is by far the more dangerous area.
So what is the purpose of this ? Why getting wh more dangerous and not fixing that f...... nullsec ?
It is pure non-sense. |
epicurus ataraxia
Lazerhawks
874
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 11:41:00 -
[591] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:
Dude, right under my name, take a look at the alliance i'm with.... I'm not the one from a scrub alliance so you couldn't even begin to educate me on wormhole space.
Disagree with me all you want and continue to share your personal feelings with everyone but until you answer the questions i originally asked you, i'll take it as you not having any valid arguments.
For your convenience:
How does this change make it impossible for farmers to run sites?
Wouldn't less farming increase the value of sleeper salvage and solve the income issue with low class wormholes?
Instead of them criting the hole or rolling it and using the exploit of not warping to the new wormhole so it doesn't spawn, can't they just anchor a bubble or put a scout on the WH?
Reply.
1. I have never said it would make it impossible for farmers to run sites, that is your comment. The issue is far more wide reaching than this.
2. No it would not. There needs to be demand as well to support higher prices.
3. Wormhole mechanics are not an exploit.
4. What have those suggestions got to do with anything? Are you totally focused on farming to the exclusion of all other wormhole activities?
Nothing happens in isolation, a change of this magnitude ripples right through wormhole space, the issue is that people focus on one tiny part of the effects, for you it is farmers and putting hole control in place, so in your eyes nothing is of importance.
You may be in a wormhole corp, and that is good, i am pleased you have the experience, but no one has the experience of every aspect, it is complex, and others clearly have experience in depth of other areas, and large, small and medium sized corps, PVE PVP and just destroy everything corps are all horrified by this change.
Putting a can and bubble on a hole is beyond irrelevant in this issue.
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
Papa Django
CosmoTeK LTD
La Division Bleue
8
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 11:42:00 -
[592] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:Well you will be happy to know that you can still do all this but it will be riskier and more time consuming. Glad i could help
I don't want to risk more, it is riskier enough already.
I don't want to spend more time on these logistics things.
I don't see why you want to ruin my game experience with no reasons (you have not given any reason to support that change).
What do you think you can gain from all this ?
Rek Seven wrote:
I know it sucks for smaller groups, which is why i think CCP should add a new way to close a hole... but that's a topic for another thread.
No it is the main issue here. A vision. |
Glasgow Dunlop
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
148
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 11:47:00 -
[593] - Quote
Is fozzie making that horrible change for the sake of making a change, as it just seems strange, if you were jumping a hole why not come out the other side the same speed you went in from the same distance?
twitter: @glasgowdunlop-á
TDSIN Recruitment Director : Join 'TDSIN pub'
Glasgow Meet Organiser
|
AtomYcX
Hard Knocks Inc.
78
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 11:54:00 -
[594] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:I know it sucks for smaller groups, which is why i think CCP should add a new way to close a hole... but that's a topic for another thread.
BOMBING WORMHOLES! YOUR TIME HAS COME! |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol
Ixtab.
1669
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 11:59:00 -
[595] - Quote
It seems clear to me that CCP has two goals with this change:
1. Make it more difficult to rage roll
2. Make it riskier to roll in general
If you're against this, they will want to know why. Saying don't change it because it's always been this way will not persuade them to cancel their plans.
I'm only trying to help here guys!
+1 |
Papa Django
CosmoTeK LTD
La Division Bleue
8
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 12:04:00 -
[596] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:It seems clear to me that CCP has two goals with this change:
1. Make it more difficult to rage roll
2. Make it riskier to roll in general
If you're against this, they will want to know why. Saying don't change it because it's always been this way will not persuade them to cancel their plans.
This is not the way this should work.
They should tell us first why they want to make these changes. Then discuss.
We have told you and CCP why we don't want this "thing" to come on tranquility. Because it remove the ability to roll cnx whitout adding anything.
Ability to roll is ability to find new content when you are stuck because static is empty. If we can't, we just have to stay in POS and log off from the game. |
Rain6637
Team Evil
15567
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 12:05:00 -
[597] - Quote
RIP hole rolling orca
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Twitter | Rainfleet mk.III | Imgur |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
357
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 12:07:00 -
[598] - Quote
BayneNothos wrote:corbexx wrote:
The slight issue here is that all that takes time. not alot but still time. The otherpeople had that wh. you jump through you still have to have some one burn 150plus km.doing 3km a sec is still a min (yeah ok you can do that before the cap goes through). You then have to align and get webbed which doesnt take long but at this point your agressed so if anything goes wrong logging off is now a real issue. then realign which in a cap takes a little while (not long but this isnt a interceptor we're talking about) all they have to do is land a hic or dic and bubble up before you start your warp back. and yeah you coudl fight your way through but some times you don't have numbers and need to quickly colapse in some ones face.
If you need to snap shut a WH so fast that a Dictor/HIC is going to land inside that time, shouldn't there be risk involved in that? Right now it's fleet jumps out, fleet jumps back and unless someone gets a freak bump or the WH gods throw you outside jump range you're fully safe.
I think a lot of you folks are focussed on the little picture. How this change will make this or that more or less fun. I'm asking you to look at the bigger picture. What does wh space have that has made it what it is? WH mechanics.
The big 3 are:
1. no local
2. mass limits
3. polarization timers
These 3 things are what made/makes wh space what it is. Decloaking out of jump range takes away 1 of the 3 pillars of wh PVP - the ability to control wh mass. This change will take away that control. Some will argue it just adds risk to wh control.
Let's be honest - you catch a cap out of jump range - it's not gonna make it back. We're not a bunch of marmites camping th 4-4 undock. We know how to web. We know how to bump. Saying it adds risk is just crap. This change makes capital size loot pinatas. Larger corps are all for it. Smaller corps are all against it. It's pretty clear to all parties what this change is about. This is a clear choice by CCP to push the blob into wh space or stand up for the little guys.
This is about ganking guys rolling wh - it's not about pvp. This is cheap stuff pvp. Counter - get a 30 man t3 fleet to protect your rolling assets. If you don't have one, make one. |
epicurus ataraxia
Lazerhawks
874
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Posted - 2014.08.05 12:07:00 -
[599] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:It seems clear to me that CCP has two goals with this change: 1. Make it more difficult to rage roll 2. Make it riskier to roll in general If you're against this, they will want to know why. Saying don't change it because it's always been this way will not persuade them to cancel their plans. I'm only trying to help here guys!
Actually, I believe they have other goals with this.
I have suggested an alternative method of achieving their goals if I am right, using an equipment(ship) based methodology rather than changing wormhole physics for everyone. It is just a page or so back and you replied to part of it.
It addresses issues that may be causing a play style bottleneck, without disrupting other mechanics.
CCP are fully aware of the reasons why large corps, medium corps, small corps, PvE Corps PvP corps are all in disagreement with the proposed change. Unless they are totally disinterested, and that would not be in their own best interest. I do not believe they are like that.
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol
Ixtab.
1669
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 12:11:00 -
[600] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:
These 3 things are what made/makes wh space what it is. Decloaking out of jump range takes away 1 of the 3 pillars of wh PVP - the ability to control wh mass. This change will take away that control. Some will argue it just adds risk to wh control.
But was the ability for players to manipulate mass mechanics ever a design decision or was it a way to limit fleet/ship sizes to encourage small gangs?
+1 |
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