I think a lot of you folks are focussed on the little picture. How this change will make this or that more or less fun. I'm asking you to look at the bigger picture. What does wh space have that has made it what it is? WH mechanics.

The big 3 are:
1. no local
2. mass limits
3. polarization timers

These 3 things are what made/makes wh space what it is. Decloaking out of jump range takes away 1 of the 3 pillars of wh PVP - the ability to control wh mass. This change will take away that control. Some will argue it just adds risk to wh control.

Let's be honest - you catch a cap out of jump range - it's not gonna make it back. We're not a bunch of marmites camping th 4-4 undock. We know how to web. We know how to bump. Saying it adds risk is just crap. This change makes capital size loot pinatas. Larger corps are all for it. Smaller corps are all against it. It's pretty clear to all parties what this change is about. This is a clear choice by CCP to push the blob into wh space or stand up for the little guys.

This is about ganking guys rolling wh - it's not about pvp. This is cheap stuff pvp. Counter - get a 30 man t3 fleet to protect your rolling assets. If you don't have one, make one.

But was the ability for players to manipulate mass mechanics ever a design decision or was it a way to limit fleet/ship sizes to encourage small gangs?

There's nothing wrong with it but wormholes are supposed to be the most dangerous place to operate, so farming shouldn't be easy or peaceful IMO.

If you want to crit your hole, then you risk your ship getting caught off the hole and if you don't want to take the risk, you bubble your hole in an attempt to slow hostiles down a bit.

But was the ability for players to manipulate mass mechanics ever a design decision or was it a way to limit fleet/ship sizes to encourage small gangs?

But was the ability for players to manipulate mass mechanics ever a design decision or was it a way to limit fleet/ship sizes to encourage small gangs?

You all make some very valid points... I'll be interested to see if CCP respond to these concerns and refine their plans.

Ps. i love the ground glass comment and can't disagree that wormhole need more content over mechanic change.

So here my 2 Cents to this Topic.
First sorry for my english.

So in the frist time i get negative Feelings for this idea but after some time i see the possibilities.
Please don't make the mistake to think only in the C5 / C6 World.
I think people in the lower WH will have more chance to get kills.

Rember the HS Wormholes, if you don't like what you see, you jump back to HS.
So with these change you will have the chance to shoot down the Pilot from HS.
Dual Web on the Ship and he will never get back into jump range in time.

Same at other WHs. You don't have to wait that the pilot jump back. Web him.
So I think the Change will most effect Cap Pilots, and not so much people who use BS to close.

If CCP change the income lvl from WH to a lvl where more people go to WH space, it will be more interesting for PVP.
So don't think so negative, think about the possibilities ......

Greatings from Austria .

Explain to me how this change (the 40km thing) will make anything better. Please use only facts and stear clear of speculation and extrapolated BS.

The version of the code that is on SISI is absolutely not the final version, and is not running final numbers (the ranges we are working with internally are quite a bit closer than what is on this build of SISI).

So here my 2 Cents to this Topic.
First sorry for my english.

So in the frist time i get negative Feelings for this idea but after some time i see the possibilities.
Please don't make the mistake to think only in the C5 / C6 World.
I think people in the lower WH will have more chance to get kills.

Rember the HS Wormholes, if you don't like what you see, you jump back to HS.
So with these change you will have the chance to shoot down the Pilot from HS.
Dual Web on the Ship and he will never get back into jump range in time.

Same at other WHs. You don't have to wait that the pilot jump back. Web him.
So I think the Change will most effect Cap Pilots, and not so much people who use BS to close.

If CCP change the income lvl from WH to a lvl where more people go to WH space, it will be more interesting for PVP.
So don't think so negative, think about the possibilities ......

Greatings from Austria .

Facts:

Anything else and i would just be speculating or giving you my personal opinion... But one thing i'm looking forward to is being able to kill people on a HS wormhole before they can get in jump range.

Facts:

Anything else and i would just be speculating or giving you my personal opinion.

So it's a bad change because you have nothing (NOTHING) good to factually say about it. All your prior posts have suddenly become empty and without meaning.

(yeah I have a shocked an amazed gasp on my fice right now)

I think a lot of you folks are focussed on the little picture. How this change will make this or that more or less fun. I'm asking you to look at the bigger picture. What does wh space have that has made it what it is? WH mechanics.

The big 3 are:
1. no local
2. mass limits
3. polarization timers

These 3 things are what made/makes wh space what it is. Decloaking out of jump range takes away 1 of the 3 pillars of wh PVP - the ability to control wh mass. This change will take away that control. Some will argue it just adds risk to wh control.

Let's be honest - you catch a cap out of jump range - it's not gonna make it back. We're not a bunch of marmites camping th 4-4 undock. We know how to web. We know how to bump. Saying it adds risk is just crap. This change makes capital size loot pinatas. Larger corps are all for it. Smaller corps are all against it. It's pretty clear to all parties what this change is about. This is a clear choice by CCP to push the blob into wh space or stand up for the little guys.

This is about ganking guys rolling wh - it's not about pvp. This is cheap stuff pvp. Counter - get a 30 man t3 fleet to protect your rolling assets. If you don't have one, make one.

Yea... Through last like 30 pages we kinda enraged, shared our speculations or some just said NO to that change.

I think we should - I do not believe I'm saying this - just wait for response from DEVs... I know that information we have now are kinda small and many of us are very concerned about them, but hey - we should stop panicking and wait for some details, analyze them and then if big picture will be dumb/unwelcome/ruining WH, only then we should enrage.

Meanwhile maybe we should concentrate on giving some ideas how to improve WH? For sure we should stop writing again and again how these changes will be bad. I think almost all sized entities from WH and even some from HS or null wrote here their opinion. Let's hope now CCP Fozzie or someone else will respond quickly.

It doesn't take your second pillar away in any way shape or form, it slightly delays it.
It's got nothing to do with the blob or any such rubbish.
A cap 1m out or 100km out of a WH is a loot pinata, this change doesn't change that in any way shape or form. It's just clearer now.

Right now you have one direction on ship choice, one. You go point blank scram web or you die. Period.
EVERY FIGHT through a WH start in Scram/Web range. EVERY ONE. NO EXCEPTIONS.

This change allows gaps to form, allow kitting ships to exist. This allows other ship classes like recons and interceptors to be more useful by catching targets further away. We may even start to see shield ships again.

Here's the thing, when you have room to move, you can fight bigger groups. Go check out CCP Rise's pre CCP Youtube Channel, plenty of vids on there with him doing exactly that.
When you start caught and pummelled the only options you have are jump back or die. This'll give you a new one, manoeuvre.


Random side note, it'd be really cool if you came out the polar opposite side of the WH you came in and kept up your speed. Figuring out the vector to the WH when you click jump shouldn't be that hard and neither is reversing it. Ships that undock already start at speed so that code is already there.

I wonder what hole you literally live in. I had my ship jump to a WH only to have snipers on the other side. Not everybody goes Geronimo straight up, despite your claim IN CAPS LOCK, which in my book totally proves that it is true.

Rest is just a joke. How do kiting ships spread over huge distance help against blobing armor T3 gank, is beyond me.

Speed thing, agree on that.

[

It is important that when something like this appears on Sisi and is discovered to give our response clearly and immidiately.
The reality is that it is hard to reverse something once it is on Sisi and well nigh impossible once it has reached the stage of a Dev blog as a great deal of developer time has been spent by then, and no one will want to waste that.

If CCP have listened to bad advice, then NOW is the time to unscramble that before it is too late, and hopefully CCP will be more careful who they listen to next time..........

Right now you have one direction on ship choice, one. You go point blank scram web or you die. Period.
EVERY FIGHT through a WH start in Scram/Web range. EVERY ONE. NO EXCEPTIONS.

This change allows gaps to form, allow kitting ships to exist. This allows other ship classes like recons and interceptors to be more useful by catching targets further away. We may even start to see shield ships again.

I wonder what hole you literally live in. I had my ship jump to a WH only to have snipers on the other side. Not everybody goes Geronimo straight up, despite your claim IN CAPS LOCK, which in my book totally proves that it is true.

Rest is just a joke. How do kiting ships spread over huge distance help against blobing armor T3 gank, is beyond me.

Speed thing, agree on that.

I don't think I've ever seen any gaming community as hostile and aggressive to the Devs as the eve community. It really just makes me sad reading some of these posts.

I like the change.

It will likely lead to actual fighting on highsec holes because daytrippers and haulers can't just disengage immediately.

And it will cause caps to actually be committed instead of having an easy escape button.

And I'm sure we can all agree, if the change was the other way around, there would be just as much complaining about CCP making wormholes too easy for farmers and bears.

You should check out Anarchy Online's forums, as far as I am concerned this thread is both civil and on point compared to the ragecries that devs over at AO gets.


For the point at hand however, I recently migrated from Anarchy Online to live out my spaceship hardon fantasy. EVE has compared to AO a active PvP scene, and a far better PvP community. I came here interested in small gang PvP, after RvB was kind enough to learn some basics I decided to go looking for shiny ships going BOOOM!
Low/High-Sec seam like a blob nightmare, I'll borrow/paraphrase an analogy I read on reddit iirc: "In high-Sec you are drake pilot 125" I don't want that, I am looking for a close knit gang where you can evade and engage as you see fit. W-Space was the obvious choice, it also seamed quite exotic so I decided to make it my home. Thankfully Wormbro let me join, and they are pro guys (just to warm to play right now lads) I thought my future in EVE was secured.

Then I read this thread on reddit where CCP outlines the changes, not knowing how everything in EVE work yet I read most of this thread, and it seam to me this will only benefit blob sized spaceship ***** collectives, and trample lesser errect Corps. I do not understand CCP why you feel the need to conform space to a single equation. Doing so is what killed PvP in Anarchy Online, and now you seam hell bent on doing the same. Go home you are drunk CCP.

Yeah this is not written by a veteran, or a person with years of experience. It is written by a new subscriber to EVE, who wants to make his home here.

In the wisdom of Wu-Tang Clan: "You gotta diversify your bonds!" Embrace the different aspects of EVE space, there is room enough for everyone, and everyone is different. Respect that.


Raven

It will likely lead to actual fighting on highsec holes because daytrippers and haulers can't just disengage immediately.