pos was not online when the cyno was lit, so there was no forcefield creating a barrier, then the pos came online

IMO jumping a ship jumping should be the same risk as using a stargate. if its not then there is a major problem in the mechanics.

JB network/titan jumping/ jump drives are supposed to save time not the risk of loosing the ship.

While at it, why don't you ask CCP for a button to instantly teleport you on top of nearest JF in null space and automatically get it tackled for you?

You are not making any sense. Nobody would live in null if logistics was tangled with your weird vision.

So according to you no one lived in 0.0 before red moon rising?

I have no fundamental problem with ending jumping to docking rings (though you'd need to do some thinking about if jump freighters would need a corresponding buff of some kind), but it seems silly to extend the discussion that far without figuring out what the goals are here.

Null was a different place with different variables in logistics before Red Moon Rising. CCP moved away from that vision, to the current vision. Now, CCP has another vision that they are building towards with the player built stargates and all, but that is not a discussion pertaining to this forum thread.

Because the only way to keep Eve's subscriber count rising is to create the artificial need for even more alt accounts?

I know people wont like it but IMO. Only tech 1 freighters should be able to hold regular non packaged items.

I would the make jump freighters have a 4million m3 sma instead.

If you want to import items up the 0.0 pipe from jita then you should need an escort fleet like in 2007.

Jf are some of the most important components of 0.0 empires yet they do not generate content and do not die that often outside of low/high sec...

the content that does exist in 0.0 exists only because of jump freighters, and although there's little content in killing or saving them they are a necessary factor in any other content

so you are saying that the current stagnation of null sec is contributed threw safe logistics and if this was changed would act as a paragim shift in the way 0.0 works?

i am saying what i posted, not whatever nonsense you understood

logistics that exist in a way that permits transport of goods to and from highsec in volumes and effort levels that only jump freighters can supply is an absolute necessity for any content in 0.0

you can tweak the safety in which they do so (though that is an increase in effort and can cause issues if not balanced) but the idea of going back to freighter ops is one of those mind-bogglingly stupid ideas only ever put forth by people who have never been on a freighter op

dude back in 07 were the most fun i have had ni 0.0 doing freighter ops.

and no having basically risk free logistics does not lead to fun. By making JF logistics risky will be great for 0.0... for 1 it will incentify players to have local hubs instead of just jita. and 2 it will generate heck loads of content for pirates and null sec players...

its really a win win.

I just think its rather ironic that a 0.0 sov guy would claim that 0.0 logistics should be less risky then high sec.

I'm not going to point fingers but I found this announcement hilarious after a mass petition was submitted a week ago for shenanigans involving bumping your own cyno carrier into your pos shields for lulz. I guess I'm lulzing now.

you cannot simply rely on local hubs because the eve economy is set up to require trading: ice, moon minerals, and regular minerals are regional. you simply must import low-ends, non-regional moon minerals, and the non-local isotopes at a bare minimum. that's not even including other stuff like datacores, faction mods, deadspace mods, decryptors and the like that all must be imported from somewhere else but aren't as big volume-wise

What? There is no Veldspar in 0.0? I think you may be wrong on that! I think Chribba can confirm that there is veldspar in 0.0.

I'm not going to point fingers but I found this announcement hilarious after a mass petition was submitted a week ago for shenanigans involving bumping your own cyno carrier into your pos shields for lulz. I guess I'm lulzing now.

man if the most fun you had in 2007 was freighter ops i hope you got the mental health treatment you needed because that's just a horrible life to be living, a completely pleasureless year is a sign something is seriously wrong i have had to organize and attend freighter ops recently - short ones, relatively speaking - and every bit of it sucked. there were no redeeming features whatsoever. you cannot simply rely on local hubs because the eve economy is set up to require trading: ice, moon minerals, and regular minerals are regional. you simply must import low-ends, non-regional moon minerals, and the non-local isotopes at a bare minimum. that's not even including other stuff like datacores, faction mods, deadspace mods, decryptors and the like that all must be imported from somewhere else but aren't as big volume-wise crius made it a lot more managable to do local production so the need for JFs is (hopefully) dwindling somewhat - I know we've turned from a net importer of t2 ships to a net exporter. but that doesn't mean we can survive without logistical lines to empire: you end jfs and we'll move to torrinos and supply ourselves with npc freighters like i said i've got no fundamental opposition to making jfing somewhat riskier by making it no longer possible to cyno onto docking rings, but the idea of freighter ops as the standard for logitics is madness

What? There is no Veldspar in 0.0? I think you may be wrong on that! I think Chribba can confirm that there is veldspar in 0.0.

hella offtopic but even completely discounting minerals, you still have to deal with the other crap he talked about

0.0 cannot exist in a vacuum, the whole of the economy is predicated on inter-regional trade

(if the cyno was lit before the password was entered for instance) then any ships jumping to that cyno will appear within 5km of a point that is a minimum of 25km from the forcefield (instead of appearing around the cyno).

Dear CCP fozzie,

I'll give a situation which u will solve for me ?

Assuming U own 5 poses in a system say in "Khanid" region say "Upt" which has no stations 3 jumps out . And u wanna do maintenance on ur pos .. fuel , taking moon goo etc ..

So u cyno in ur JF 150km from the tower cos i'm sure ur not gonna slow boat 25km in a Rhea into the shields.. u use an alt to deploy Cyno Jammer , Scan inhibitor yada yada yada .. U even use a Rapier to web ur JF to warp from 150km .

Le me scouting systems .. see u doing this i pass by .. i jus add u to watch list . 1 month later .. U do the same thing .. jus that i'll b having a 30 man ishtar fleet with 6 guardians cyoned in the adjacent system.. enuf to kill u b4 the pos guns even target us .. cos u cant call back up thru cyno ..cos ur own cyno jammer is up and running for good effect . Ur rapier is toast as well .

ur pos goes outta fuel soon cos ofc u cant fuel it buddy . Might as well write down ur pos to me . cos if u are gonna run 10 jumps to high sec in an iteron 5 with moon goo and fuel i'm gonna enjoy camping u .

CCP trolling on the little guys as usual .

guys who are about to face this situation - end subscription as soon as possible best solution there is .

or join a power block u'll eventually get there

(if the cyno was lit before the password was entered for instance) then any ships jumping to that cyno will appear within 5km of a point that is a minimum of 25km from the forcefield (instead of appearing around the cyno).

am i the only one read it?

Actually, ranges are fine!

Move the Titans outside POSs for bridging!

I'm more then willing to bet every Nullsec CSM will foam at the mouth at the thought of it!

Finally, a move towards putting risk and difficulty back into null sec logistics and fleet movement.

Jump freighter logistics and easy long distance movement of capital assets has been crippling the game for far too long.

An excellent first step, hopefully only the first of many.

Keep this up and our noble null sec players might actually start enjoying the game again, despite what they think at the moment.