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Sticky:[Oceanus] Cyno Exclusion Zone around starbases

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 7 post(s)
Moloney Faceless Men 159	Posted - 2014.09.18 17:05:00 - [211] - Quote Kismeteer wrote: This is the worst type of 'CCP doesn't play their own game' solution. Welcome to Hyperion wh changes... We already know the above. But since ye all came over to the wh forum and gave advice. I'll return the favour: get the lube and bend over.
Overman FinFleet Northern Coalition. 1	Posted - 2014.09.18 17:05:00 - [212] - Quote Additionally, I'm curious why the added risk to capitals cynoing outside the pos is now desirable. The entire impetus for this change was SOCO crying about lighting bridges on the edge of POS' being too risky. Was the game mechanic THAT broken before that it needs an ad-hoc fix with far reaching implications? Is this some well thought out change that CCP has been testing for months and contemplating various contingencies for? I don't think so. This is why CCP gets so much crap. This is really an awful change that has not been very well thought out in response to emotional feedback from a titan lost last week. If you want to validate your rule or prevent the "exploit," then just do that. Make a narrowly tailored change and move on making this game better. Issues like these create wastes of time 6 months down the line when CCP realizes, yet again, that it acted too hastily. Ignoring the actual annoyance of this change, take a minute to contemplate the wasted man hours that will go into fixing this issue again when all the ramifications are realized. Those man hours translate to real life money and inefficiencies that affect the bottom line. It's disheartening that someone even has to say this, but Measure Twice Cut Once.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2546	Posted - 2014.09.18 17:10:00 - [213] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: I've been in meetings with the CSM all morning, and amongst all the topics we did some further discussion around this change taking the public feedback into account. The conclusion of the discussion was satisfactory for all parties. This thread couldn't get any better if it tried. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
True Payne Megatron Heavy Industries Brothers of Tangra 0	Posted - 2014.09.18 17:12:00 - [214] - Quote You know! I have been playing since 2006 and this is the worst idea CCP has ever came up with! Now every Super/Capital/JF/Roqs will be very vulnerable when jumping in. So now that ohsht cyno means nothing just inside that Exclusion zone!!! [b]How about CCP makes Titans itself have that Exclusion Zone*... Your putting a lazy Band-aid on the Problem. Stop Screwing the rest of eve with these pointless fixes
Overman FinFleet Northern Coalition. 1	Posted - 2014.09.18 17:17:00 - [215] - Quote Grath Telkin wrote: CCP Fozzie wrote: I've been in meetings with the CSM all morning, and amongst all the topics we did some further discussion around this change taking the public feedback into account. The conclusion of the discussion was satisfactory for all parties. This thread couldn't get any better if it tried. WTB Referrendum Call http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recall_election
Retar Aveymone GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 801	Posted - 2014.09.18 17:18:00 - [216] - Quote True Payne wrote: You know! I have been playing since 2006 and this is the worst idea CCP has ever came up with! Now every Super/Capital/JF/Roqs will be very vulnerable when jumping in. So now that ohsht cyno means nothing just inside that Exclusion zone!!! How about CCP makes Titans itself have that Exclusion Zone*... Your putting a lazy Band-aid on the Problem. Stop Screwing the rest of eve with these pointless fixes.. Ships being vulnerable on jump-in isn't a bad thing. Stop acting like a wormholer. It's more if this exclusion zone actually leads to good gameplay that I'm not sure about, this is a really odd change given the only goal that's been publicly stated which makes me think there's more Fozzie is aiming at.
GeeShizzle MacCloud 473	Posted - 2014.09.18 17:19:00 - [217] - Quote Overman wrote: Grath Telkin wrote: CCP Fozzie wrote: I've been in meetings with the CSM all morning, and amongst all the topics we did some further discussion around this change taking the public feedback into account. The conclusion of the discussion was satisfactory for all parties. This thread couldn't get any better if it tried. WTB Referrendum Call http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recall_election tough luck, you should have made your vote count when it could count, instead of being all bitter and vetty
Kismeteer GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 646	Posted - 2014.09.18 17:21:00 - [218] - Quote Will this apply to online and offline pos? Or is a POS bubble necessary to get cyno protection?
Drak Fel Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion 55	Posted - 2014.09.18 17:21:00 - [219] - Quote Overman wrote: Grath Telkin wrote: CCP Fozzie wrote: I've been in meetings with the CSM all morning, and amongst all the topics we did some further discussion around this change taking the public feedback into account. The conclusion of the discussion was satisfactory for all parties. This thread couldn't get any better if it tried. WTB Referrendum Call http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recall_election See, and I read read Fozzie's post as, " They talked. I listened. Then did what I wanted to anyway." I'm so cynical.
Retar Aveymone GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 801	Posted - 2014.09.18 17:22:00 - [220] - Quote Kismeteer wrote: Will this apply to online and offline pos? Or is a POS bubble necessary to get cyno protection? this is answered in the original post, go read it (only applies to a forcefield, not a stick)
Serotta Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion 0	Posted - 2014.09.18 17:24:00 - [221] - Quote Why not make is so the pos shield modifies the ships properties so that a ship of the same class outside the pos shields would not be able to bump the ship inside the pos shield far enough for it to leave the pos shields. At the same time the pos shields would buff up the ships acceleration, agility, or whatever.. so it would still be able to fly same inside or outside of the pos shields.
Retar Aveymone GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 802	Posted - 2014.09.18 17:31:00 - [222] - Quote Serotta wrote: Why not make is so the pos shield modifies the ship's properties so that a ship of the same class outside the pos shields would not be able to bump the ship inside the pos shield far enough for it to leave the pos shields. At the same time the pos shields would buff up the ships acceleration, agility, or whatever.. so the ship still flies the same inside or outside of the pos shields. because there is no such aoe effect anywhere in eve's coding and doing that would probably cause the servers to crash over and over again?
Alp Khan GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 148	Posted - 2014.09.18 17:43:00 - [223] - Quote Proposed change does not make any sense at all. It creates more problems than the actual Titan bumping problem it is supposed to solve. Fozzie's track record on similar propositions (such as the freighter rebalance fiasco) makes me wonder if Fozzie and the player base are dealing with the same game here. I believe that there are more direct solutions available to CCP for resolving the singular problem that this proposal is supposed to change without hitting up a dead end on the problems of the POS code. I sometimes really wish Fozzie would start coming up with solutions that actually manage to tackle the real problems, instead of breaking a million other things.
Drak Fel Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion 55	Posted - 2014.09.18 17:43:00 - [224] - Quote Retar Aveymone wrote: Serotta wrote: Why not make is so the pos shield modifies the ship's properties so that a ship of the same class outside the pos shields would not be able to bump the ship inside the pos shield far enough for it to leave the pos shields. At the same time the pos shields would buff up the ships acceleration, agility, or whatever.. so the ship still flies the same inside or outside of the pos shields. because there is no such aoe effect anywhere in eve's coding and doing that would probably cause the servers to crash over and over again? Actually, the pos shield already creates and area of effect. You don't take damage when you're in one. You can't activate most modules when you're in one. This would just add more affects to the same aoe radius that already exists.
Pj Harvey Ship spinners inc 55	Posted - 2014.09.18 17:50:00 - [225] - Quote Love these changes
Retar Aveymone GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 802	Posted - 2014.09.18 17:54:00 - [226] - Quote Drak Fel wrote: Actually, the pos shield already creates an area of effect. You don't take damage when you're in one. You can't activate most modules when you're in one. This would just add more affects to the same aoe radius that already exists. the pos shield most certainly does not create an area of effect and you can absolutely take damage inside a pos shield (as the many people who have been killed by missiles fired before they were in the shield but hit after can tell you) - you merely cannot be targeted what you're asking would be to change the physics and stats of a ship based on where it is in the solar system, something that does not exist at all to the best of my knowledge in eve's code and would have to be written from scratch
Overman FinFleet Northern Coalition. 2	Posted - 2014.09.18 18:04:00 - [227] - Quote Retar Aveymone wrote: Drak Fel wrote: Actually, the pos shield already creates an area of effect. You don't take damage when you're in one. You can't activate most modules when you're in one. This would just add more affects to the same aoe radius that already exists. the pos shield most certainly does not create an area of effect and you can absolutely take damage inside a pos shield (as the many people who have been killed by missiles fired before they were in the shield but hit after can tell you) - you merely cannot be targeted what you're asking would be to change the physics and stats of a ship based on where it is in the solar system, something that does not exist at all to the best of my knowledge in eve's code and would have to be written from scratch It absolutely does. The simple recognition of the server that XshipinPOS?=1 is that area effect required for the purposes of creating another condition for ships in a pos.
Serotta Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion 0	Posted - 2014.09.18 18:06:00 - [228] - Quote Retar Aveymone wrote: Drak Fel wrote: Actually, the pos shield already creates an area of effect. You don't take damage when you're in one. You can't activate most modules when you're in one. This would just add more affects to the same aoe radius that already exists. the pos shield most certainly does not create an area of effect and you can absolutely take damage inside a pos shield (as the many people who have been killed by missiles fired before they were in the shield but hit after can tell you) - you merely cannot be targeted what you're asking would be to change the physics and stats of a ship based on where it is in the solar system, something that does not exist at all to the best of my knowledge in eve's code and would have to be written from scratch https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Wormhole_environment_effects
Krystyn Serenity Rising LLC Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 184	Posted - 2014.09.18 18:33:00 - [229] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: I've been in meetings with the CSM all morning, and amongst all the topics we did some further discussion around this change taking the public feedback into account. The conclusion of the discussion was satisfactory for all parties. So tell us what the conclusion was then.
Inslander Wessette primordial star Universal Paranoia Alliance 3	Posted - 2014.09.18 18:36:00 - [230] - Quote El Space Mariachi wrote: Promiscuous Female wrote: Inslander Wessette wrote: Dear CCP fozzie, I'll give a situation which u will solve for me ? Assuming U own 5 poses in a system say in "Khanid" region say "Upt" which has no stations 3 jumps out . And u wanna do maintenance on ur pos .. fuel , taking moon goo etc .. So u cyno in ur JF 150km from the tower cos i'm sure ur not gonna slow boat 25km in a Rhea into the shields.. u use an alt to deploy Cyno Jammer , Scan inhibitor yada yada yada .. U even use a Rapier to web ur JF to warp from 150km . Le me scouting systems .. see u doing this i pass by .. i jus add u to watch list . 1 month later .. U do the same thing .. jus that i'll b having a 30 man ishtar fleet with 6 guardians cyoned in the adjacent system.. enuf to kill u b4 the pos guns even target us .. cos u cant call back up thru cyno ..cos ur own cyno jammer is up and running for good effect . Ur rapier is toast as well . ur pos goes outta fuel soon cos ofc u cant fuel it buddy . Might as well write down ur pos to me . cos if u are gonna run 10 jumps to high sec in an iteron 5 with moon goo and fuel i'm gonna enjoy camping u . CCP trolling on the little guys as usual . guys who are about to face this situation - end subscription as soon as possible best solution there is . or join a power block u'll eventually get there if only there was some sort of capital ship that could haul 150k+ m^3 and could fit an MWD well maybe he doesnt WANT to train a rorqual GOD why cant he just align down in his jf??? Ppl who dont use Jf's so i guess .. i'll consider those posts ******** replies .. the reason one wud use a JF is i can jump from High sec to my low sec pos ..if i had to bring my stuff to a rorqual thru a hig-> low sec gate which is mostly camped .. yeah good luck .. doing 50 trips to fuel 5 poses and then move it thru a roqual .. lol migth as well dedicate my eve carrier to running my poses ..
Promiscuous Female GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 445	Posted - 2014.09.18 18:44:00 - [231] - Quote Inslander Wessette wrote: the reason one wud use a JF is i can jump from High sec to my low sec pos ..if i had to bring my stuff to a rorqual thru a hig-> low sec gate which is mostly camped .. yeah good luck .. doing 50 trips to fuel 5 poses and then move it thru a roqual .. lol might as well dedicate my eve carrier to running my poses .. wow just wow you do know that rorquals can't go into highsec right
Quesa D00M. Northern Coalition. 32	Posted - 2014.09.18 18:57:00 - [232] - Quote Retar Aveymone wrote: I'm curious if this is actually a good idea. The giant cyno exclusion zone has a lot of seriously strange effects, like a titan bumped out of a pos being absolutely boned because it can't cyno in help. Have you considered allowing any cyno to be lit within that zone, but you still land outside it (a mechanic you clearly already have since you implemented it as a fallback) and what's the downside of just doing that instead of this exclusion zone? edit: basically I'm wondering if there's additional intended effects I'm not seeing, it's hard to tell what was intended and what was not with this change (besides ending pos bowling). This proposal actually makes more sense and shows a great deal more forethought into a change and the repercussions.
MeBiatch GRR GOONS 1920	Posted - 2014.09.18 19:00:00 - [233] - Quote Anthar Thebess wrote: Azami Nevinyrall wrote: CCP Fozzie wrote: I've been in meetings with the CSM all morning, and amongst all the topics we did some further discussion around this change taking the public feedback into account. The conclusion of the discussion was satisfactory for all parties. Now, do the same for Titan Bridging... You know you want too... It'll instantly kill the Blue Doughnut! Don't forget about capital jump range. Block their ability to jump between regions, and force them to use XL sized regional gates. Every one wins! Even blocking ability to bridge between regions could be good. that and move the jump bridge to the ihub. that way there is no pos for protection/ defence. also make the JB acessable by anyone... Pretty much i would like to see JB moved from personal alliance based safe transportation to playowned stargates. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote: Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
MeBiatch GRR GOONS 1920	Posted - 2014.09.18 19:03:00 - [234] - Quote Vol Arm'OOO wrote: With the death of the new cyno bumping mechanics, can we now at least make it so that you cannot bridge from the safety of a pos? Bridging is extremely powerful and largely risk free if done from the safety of a pos with the exception of spias and awoking which the pos doesnt protect against anyways. If folk want to bridge, they should have to at least put the bridging ship at some risk - after all eve's mantra is risk v. reward. either that or remove titan bridge as a separate move and just make a jumping titan leave a residual wormhole that acts as the titan bridge with enough mass to transport 250 of the largest battleships. that way you increase the risk to hotdrop by huge amounts. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote: Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
MeBiatch GRR GOONS 1921	Posted - 2014.09.18 19:10:00 - [235] - Quote shimiku wrote: now that we are at it why don't we just add this to station also and kill logistic yes!!!! 1000 times yes! Imagine you cant just use non kickout waypoint stations to insta cap your ships... every mid point would have to be those scarry safe spot ones where there is a huge risk of getting hot dropped. 0.0 is supposed to be full of risk at every corner... we need to remove all the safe tranport ability to properly nerf power projection. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote: Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
MeBiatch GRR GOONS 1921	Posted - 2014.09.18 19:13:00 - [236] - Quote Hairpins Blueprint wrote: cynogen/jb i guess no one cares but station? oh boy you wona kill low sec no more jump freighters lol IMO jumping a ship jumping should be the same risk as using a stargate. if its not then there is a major problem in the mechanics. JB network/titan jumping/ jump drives are supposed to save time not the risk of loosing the ship. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote: Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Jessica Duranin Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 142	Posted - 2014.09.18 19:18:00 - [237] - Quote Drak Fel wrote: Jessica Duranin wrote: Drak Fel wrote: Capitals/Supers/Titans in the 25km deadzone will not be able to light a cyno to even attempt to save themselves if they are tackled in between. Don't fly in between then? Because a titan has never bumped a little out of a shield. He should still be permitted to light a cyno to try to save himself when he is. This is bad for everyone with a super/titan, not just one group. You can still have someone else light a cyno outside the 25km range. If you can't protect your caps you shouldn't be using them.
Drak Fel Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion 59	Posted - 2014.09.18 19:25:00 - [238] - Quote Jessica Duranin wrote: Drak Fel wrote: Jessica Duranin wrote: Drak Fel wrote: Capitals/Supers/Titans in the 25km deadzone will not be able to light a cyno to even attempt to save themselves if they are tackled in between. Don't fly in between then? Because a titan has never bumped a little out of a shield. He should still be permitted to light a cyno to try to save himself when he is. This is bad for everyone with a super/titan, not just one group. You can still have someone else light a cyno outside the 25km range. If you can't protect your caps you shouldn't be using them. Because the only way to keep Eve's subscriber count rising is to create an artificial need for even more alt accounts.
Dirk MacGirk Specter Syndicate Tactical Narcotics Team 90	Posted - 2014.09.18 19:36:00 - [239] - Quote Drak Fel wrote: You should really make it so that you can still light a cyno withing 25km but ships jumping in land beyond 25km. Capitals/Supers/Titans in the 25km deadzone will not be able to light a cyno to even attempt to save themselves if they are tackled in between. Very legitimate point here, unless it is somehow covered by this part of Fozzie's remarks: "If for any reason a cyno is active within 25km of a forcefield (if the cyno was lit before the password was entered for instance) then any ships jumping to that cyno will appear within 5km of a point that is a minimum of 25km from the forcefield (instead of appearing around the cyno)." Not sure how else a cyno could be active if it is a dead zone, unless it's referring to a cyno that is lit and coasts or is bumped into the dead zone.
Retar Aveymone GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 806	Posted - 2014.09.18 19:42:00 - [240] - Quote Dirk MacGirk wrote: Drak Fel wrote: You should really make it so that you can still light a cyno withing 25km but ships jumping in land beyond 25km. Capitals/Supers/Titans in the 25km deadzone will not be able to light a cyno to even attempt to save themselves if they are tackled in between. Very legitimate point here, unless it is somehow covered by this part of Fozzie's remarks: "If for any reason a cyno is active within 25km of a forcefield (if the cyno was lit before the password was entered for instance) then any ships jumping to that cyno will appear within 5km of a point that is a minimum of 25km from the forcefield (instead of appearing around the cyno)." Not sure how else a cyno could be active if it is a dead zone, unless it's referring to a cyno that is lit and coasts or is bumped into the dead zone. pos was not online when the cyno was lit, so there was no forcefield creating a barrier, then the pos came online

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