Not really sure what to think about this.. we have 300-500+ people in the German Channel.. yes its a harsh language often - I am sure the hard core trolls will move over to the help channels ... and then.. things will get UGLY. I dont even remember the last CCP or ISD sighting in the help channel.

I dont even remember the last CCP or ISD sighting in the help channel.

...however over the course of the last 12 months or so we have had a rise in the number of complaints regarding politically motivated trolling and inappropriate content being displayed in them.
...
invite you to create your own player run language ... in your native languages if you wish to do so.

Not really sure what to think about this.. we have 300-500+ people in the German Channel.. yes its a harsh language often - I am sure the hard core trolls will move over to the help channels ... and then.. things will get UGLY. I dont even remember the last CCP or ISD sighting in the help channel.

Yes! Greatest news! Thanks, CCP Falcon.

Such a shame that spanish being official in more than 20 countries and having more than 500 million of native speakers is not an official language.

Ehm... do I get this right? Politically motivated trolling and inappropriate content won't be CCPs business as long as it happens in channels created by players? Does this include private conversations and Eve-Mail as they are "player run", too?

Otherwise I fail to see how shutting down some channels will reduce complaints.

So players should make their own channels and moderate them themselves. Advertise the channel in the respective forums and get a big player run channel going?

For example, someone stated 300-500 German players in one German chat channel, just band all of them together in another player made channel?

Or am I missing something painfully obvious here

So players should make their own channels and moderate them themselves. Advertise the channel in the respective forums and get a big player run channel going?

For example, someone stated 300-500 German players in one German chat channel, just band all of them together in another player made channel?

Or am I missing something painfully obvious here

[Not providing a magnet to draw idiots and victims together is a step in the right direction. A few hundred more bans will get the rest of the point across.

At least give us a button, something like "Channel could really need some moderation RIGHT NOW!"

I can only talk about german channels.
There is a channel called "German"(300-600 players) - a rough place to be for new players, but perfectly "EvE'ish". You love it or leave it.
There is a channel called "German Help (Hilfe)"(400-700 and up to 1000 players whenever there is a steam sale or the days after events like B-R) - we are doing our best to help new players and try to keep "trolls" out.

Closing the "official troll allowed channel" will leave some of the "trolls" homeless and there it is your "magnet to draw idiots and victims together" as many of them will simply move to the help channel. Because why would they join a player run channel where they can get banned/muted whenever the "chief of channel" doesn't like him?

Now some may say: Not a problem at all as the german help channel will be heavyly supported (monitored/moderated) by dozens of ISD/GM/CCP, but in fact the last time I've seen an ISD is >10 weeks ago. Who is going to do those "few hundred more bans"?
I know one ISD, one GM and one CCP who can be seen twice a year - how are they supposed to take care of a channel with 500+ players 24/7?

Just take a look at the "official german sub-forum"... 24+ days without any ISD/GM/CCP action. Oceanus? Never heard of it!

"Official supported"

At least give us a button, something like "Channel could really need some moderation RIGHT NOW!"

Such a shame that spanish being official in more than 20 countries and having more than 500 million of native speakers is not an official language.

It is very interesting that pissing off a big portion of the community is seen as "greatest news".

Also, has this been discussed by CSM? Why bring it up only now, just a week before the expansion? Will we be getting a devblog about this?

wow its like opening a new channel named exactly the same thing as the old one is some hard thing to do

wow its like opening a new channel named exactly the same thing as the old one is some hard thing to do

wow its like opening a new channel named exactly the same thing as the old one is some hard thing to do

wow its like opening a new channel named exactly the same thing as the old one is some hard thing to do

Good afternoon capsuleers



We'd like to let you all know in advance, and invite you to create your own player run language channels after the Oceanus release is deployed in order to continue discussions in your native languages if you wish to do so.

- F <3

Thanks for A WHOLE WEEKS warning time

Previously we've supported a total of 39 language channels in game, however over the course of the last 12 months or so we have had a rise in the number of complaints regarding politically motivated trolling and inappropriate content being displayed in them.

Will you also shut down Fozzie's twitter due to "politically motivated trolling"? You know, since you're being so worried about trolling in official CCP communication channels.

This is very sad to see. I for one really enjoy the Swedish channel and I'm sure others feel the same way as I towards "their" language.

Feels a bit like you can't handle (or don't want to handle the complaints) the channels so make it easy and just remove them...? But hey, I'd be up for moderating the Swedish one - problem is that before you could actually find the language you wanted under the "Language" section of channels. Something that I now assume is just gone. So people still wouldn't find their way there without word-of-mouth.

I'd be happy to take it over anyway, unless it's already taken by some random pilot that left back in 2003...

But ultimately I think this is the wrong move to make.

/c

It would be less unfair to shut only the channels were trouble arises. If (insert nationality X) can't behave at their language channel, we Spanish speakers and the other 34 language speakers are not to blame.

This is very sad to see. I for one really enjoy the Swedish channel and I'm sure others feel the same way as I towards "their" language.

Feels a bit like you can't handle (or don't want to handle the complaints) the channels so make it easy and just remove them...? But hey, I'd be up for moderating the Swedish one - problem is that before you could actually find the language you wanted under the "Language" section of channels. Something that I now assume is just gone. So people still wouldn't find their way there without word-of-mouth.

I'd be happy to take it over anyway, unless it's already taken by some random pilot that left back in 2003...

But ultimately I think this is the wrong move to make.

/c

The Swedish channel haven't got any of these issues..
This is such a bad idea.

I have removed a rule breaking post.

The Rules:
6. Racism and discrimination are prohibited.

Racism, gender stereotyping and hate speech are not permitted on the EVE Online Forums. Derogatory posting that includes race, religion or sexual preference based personal attacks and trolling can result in immediate suspension of forum posting privileges.

"Official" channnels can be found in the channel list right from the start. Channels created by players are not. It's difficult to reach those players that are new and/or not on the forums or other external ways the community provides information. It's no longer possible to just click the speech bubble in a chat window to find a chat channel where a player's native/preferred language is used.

Well the only problem is that new players have no idea where to find that channel, you need to know someone to send you there first. As it is now, with it being on an official list, someone who is new to the game can, for example, join the Spanish channel and chat with some Spanish people, without needing the channel name etc...

Would it be possible to make the existing un-official language channels read-only, and create a list of linked player channels in the MOTD?

Or prehaps keep the channels, but make it clear in the MOTD that these channels are not moderated by CCP and that CCP is not responsible for the content in the channels and that discretion is advised, close the channel if you're offended by some guy trolling with political **** etc.

I agree completely with both of these, but you know CCP will do what they want in regards to this. By the looks of things it has already been decided. I would suggest that you grab you channel names now before this change happens. Lets say for example you guys speak German, call it "German Players Local" or something.
Next step would be to make a thread about it in GD and in New Citizens and ask CCP to sticky it at the top of the page on both.

Unfortunately, this is pretty much the only thing you can do currently...

Naturally you would need to consolidate with other players and agree on one player run channel for that language.

This seems like a bad idea. Essentially, you're arguing that because language channels are listed in the client in a visible place, they need the kind of moderation that the forums get, and since you can't provide that (for reasons that make plenty of sense; I've no issue with this), you're going to do away with that visible listing. I would say: this is a place for a policy change. Those 39 channels serve a useful purpose, as lots of people have pointed out, and their visibility is part of that. So I think you'd be better to bite the bullet and admit that you can't moderate them and aren't going to. Put it in big red letters in a MOTD. And remind people that there's a block function. Penalizing everyone, on the other hand, just in order to punish the few seems less than fair.

I'm surprised some intrepid role players have not yet created languages for the factions.

ToS (3)
You may not organize nor be a member of any corporation or group within EVE Online that is based on or advocates any anti-ethnic, anti-gay, anti-religious, racist, sexist or other hate-mongering philosophies
http://community.eveonline.com/support/policies/eve-tos/?_ga=1.190995626.1217436021.1367317719

I still fail to see how this will reduce the amount of complaints. You don't believe that there won't be foreign language in the remaining chats, do you?


A chat is a group of players.
Someone who is creating a player run channel is organizing a group.
Players who idle or participate in this chat are member of this group.

I wonder if you can receive a permaban for breaking the ToS if you create a channel (as supposed) and some players start (ab)using it to spread anti-ethnic, anti-gay, anti-religious, racist, sexist or other hate-mongering philosophies.


There is a single question I'd like to see an answer to:
Am I forced by CCP to moderate my player run channels - if yes - what consequenced do I have to suffer if ToS breaking will happen inside the channel?

Funny how CCP never ever asked his players what they think about this *issue*

Next please remove local from all tradehubs, lowsecs and 00 - as the quality of text there is WAY lower than any language chat has ever been.

With most of these languages having no official support from CCP, this means that investigating and answering tickets of this nature from these channels is sometimes not possible due to a significant language barrier. This is contrary to our policy of moderating and enforcing our terms of service (in particular the sections on player conduct) in persistent CCP hosted channels within the EVE client.

You may not use any abusive, defamatory, ethnically or racially offensive, harassing, harmful, hateful, obscene, offensive, sexually explicit, threatening or vulgar language. (Alternate spelling or partial masking of such words will be reprimanded in the same manner as the actual use of such words.)

Yes, because (insert power bloc) naturally will share their (insert language) channel with everybody else... right?

Do you know what's going to be funny with this change?

99% of the victims will not know until it happens, because if they spoke enough English to read the warning, maybe they would not be using the non-supported language channels.

Ok, constructive suggestion time. Since there've been no CCP responses to any of the concerns raised in this thread so far (or in the one on the German forums), we presumably have to assume that this is not something our friends in Reykjavik are prepared to negotiate about. Various people are creating alternatives already (Darkblad, Mai, etc.). But they're going to be hard to find. So if CCP are committed to this, the "channel finder" (such as it is) needs a massive overhaul. It needs to look and function like the fleet finder. People need to be able to advertise their private channels in it. (There is a "Player Channels" category, but I've no idea how to get a channel listed there.) There needs to be a language tag/filter. And there needs to be a function whereby you can vet people wanting to join. I'm calling on CCP to do this first, before shutting everyone down. At the very least, I'd like to be assured that something like this is in the pipeline.

+1 this, keep the channels for at least until we have a proper alternative for it

Good afternoon capsuleers

Some of you who've been on Singularity may have noticed that the officially hosted language have vanished from the channel listing in the client.

Previously we've supported a total of 39 language channels in game, however over the course of the last 12 months or so we have had a rise in the number of complaints regarding politically motivated trolling and inappropriate content being displayed in them.

With most of these languages having no official support from CCP, this means that investigating and answering tickets of this nature from these channels is sometimes not possible due to a significant language barrier. This is contrary to our policy of moderating and enforcing our terms of service (in particular the sections on player conduct) in persistent CCP hosted channels within the EVE client.

As such, with Oceanus we'll be removing the officially hosted language based channels from the EVE Online client, and only the help channels for our officially supported languages will remain.

We'd like to let you all know in advance, and invite you to create your own player run language channels after the Oceanus release is deployed in order to continue discussions in your native languages if you wish to do so.

- F <3

So you have trolls in a channel.

Let's close the channel and the problem is fixed.


Sorry, but wrong. Troll is still there and will just kmove to the next channel.

The Dutch channel was one of the first I joined amd still occasionally visit. It was of GREAT help when I just started the game.


Sorry CCP, but -10 on the idea. Just with this you made your next patch utterly stupid and ********. Really hope that instead of masking the problem with a dumb move you will solve it and leave la guage channels as they are.


Funny thing...CCP announces this on a forum, 6 pages of nothing but negative replies but no response from CCP on it.

I'm getting an Incarna Deja-vu. And we all remember how that turned out for CCP. But clearly they forgot that not listening to your customer that pays you is something you should do.

CCP, why give use time to disucss this if you dont follow the discussion?

CCP, why give use time to disucss this if you dont follow the discussion?

It is the scum of the EvE-O in these channels. GJ CCP

scum????

Hello i already filled a ticket on this matter, overall ukrainian community supports this idea but only cause of huge number of trolls from russian channel better known as sruchat, i cant speak for other channels its probably terrible news for tham, but we think the way out exists and its quite simple, as ccp said player owned channels(we made ours after Russian invasion started) and atm its more active then official ukranian channel and everyone is happy with moderation no political discussion and just enjoying spaceship pewpew, thing is new players and how they gonna find those channels hence i propose ccp to add some player owned chats to a new made tab called unofficial languages or how you preffer to call it, so a new person can check a channel and see for example UA channel and how many people it has(we are quite active atm over 60 active members ) im really looking forward to have this option in new expansion.

however over the course of the last 12 months or so we have had a rise in the number of complaints regarding politically motivated trolling and inappropriate content being displayed in them.

Hello i already filled a ticket on this matter, overall ukrainian community supports this idea but only cause of huge number of trolls from russian channel better known as sruchat, i cant speak for other channels its probably terrible news for tham, but we think the way out exists and its quite simple, as ccp said player owned channels(we made ours after Russian invasion started) and atm its more active then official ukranian channel and everyone is happy with moderation no political discussion and just enjoying spaceship pewpew, thing is new players and how they gonna find those channels hence i propose ccp to add some player owned chats to a new made tab called unofficial languages or how you preffer to call it, so a new person can check a channel and see for example UA channel and how many people it has(we are quite active atm over 60 active members ) im really looking forward to have this option in new expansion.

CCP, why give use time to disucss this if you dont follow the discussion?

Aaand, the culprits I suspected eventually surfaced. Ukrainian and Russian troll each other and so 33 other channels are shut down so CCP spare themselves some trouble. What a briliant way to go, CCP!

(There is a "Player Channels" category, but I've no idea how to get a channel listed there.)

Good afternoon capsuleers

Some of you who've been on Singularity may have noticed that the officially hosted language have vanished from the channel listing in the client.

Previously we've supported a total of 39 language channels in game, however over the course of the last 12 months or so we have had a rise in the number of complaints regarding politically motivated trolling and inappropriate content being displayed in them.

With most of these languages having no official support from CCP, this means that investigating and answering tickets of this nature from these channels is sometimes not possible due to a significant language barrier. This is contrary to our policy of moderating and enforcing our terms of service (in particular the sections on player conduct) in persistent CCP hosted channels within the EVE client.

As such, with Oceanus we'll be removing the officially hosted language based channels from the EVE Online client, and only the help channels for our officially supported languages will remain.

We'd like to let you all know in advance, and invite you to create your own player run language channels after the Oceanus release is deployed in order to continue discussions in your native languages if you wish to do so.

- F <3

Hello i already filled a ticket on this matter, overall ukrainian community supports this idea but only cause of huge number of trolls from russian channel better known as sruchat, i cant speak for other channels its probably terrible news for tham, but we think the way out exists and its quite simple, as ccp said player owned channels(we made ours after Russian invasion started) and atm its more active then official ukranian channel and everyone is happy with moderation no political discussion and just enjoying spaceship pewpew, thing is new players and how they gonna find those channels hence i propose ccp to add some player owned chats to a new made tab called unofficial languages or how you preffer to call it, so a new person can check a channel and see for example UA channel and how many people it has(we are quite active atm over 60 active members ) im really looking forward to have this option in new expansion.

Did any motd of the 39 channels updated to notify existing and new visitors of them about this change?
What's the probability of chat links to unofficial chat channels in the remaining (five plus E-UNI) help channels?
Who will provide and maintain a list of channels created by players to provide an alternative to the communities that exist in the channels about to vanish?
How will it be possible that such channels are not used by their owners/moderators to exclude individual members not because they troll/spam/harass but just because the mods don't like someones face(/origin/corp or alliance membership)

Many of these foreign players, have actual RL bloodshed occuring in their countries, this is one of their "releases" ...

what happen to all noob who don't know to talk english

if you remove those all the noobs from non english country will gone away

OK, what I really came to say was.

I don't hang out in other language channels much, and personally I think localization of software is a terrible idea and only cause bugs and other issues. (no English is not my first language, and I actually have a very hard time learning other languages).

I am still opposed to the removal of the language channels though. Not everyone like to chat in English, or understand all English terms. Where are people going to go to have a random chat in Eve in non-English? Into 100 different channels where they only got themselves to talk to because their small community is split up? Where is someone who didn't understand an English term going to go to get a translation that understand the context of Eve? Where are people going to find each other to form corps of people with same language background? I think those corp are bad idea myself, but they are still popular in MMOs and would think CCP would like Eve to be considered a possible game to play by people who only join own-language guilds.

I know I don't like people spamming 50 different languages in the channels I am in, I find it very confusing, so I like when it is strictly forbidden. This change is just going to pollute the English channels. Not only hurting the people who were in the language specific channels, but everyone else too.

A little numbers, currently 7% (1648 (in game channel list + calculator) of the 24568 (launcher)) people online are in the language channels.

http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i388/ccespedes33/M0ktc0q_zps28b53168.gif

Bad move.

Trade chat and some locals have always been a trolling/scamming/gay **** advertising breeding ground (This same forum is also not that far behind I dare say). Yet, people just block and move on.

Improvements to the new player experience have overall been neglected since the very start and despite you knowing this here you are giving another blow to it.

Just add a MOTD to said channels saying that it is not possible for them to be moderated, urging players to be careful with links and to block inappropriate users.

P.S Russian's invade Ukrainian chat to troll. CCP solves the problem by closing the Ukrainian chat (and all the other's) but keeps the Russian channel. lol

Would CCP consider maintaining a channel/link in with the rest of the language channels for "Other languages/Unofficial language channels". This would not be a channel that you can chat in. It could even be just a link to an EVElopedia page, but would basically be an alphabetic listing of languages with links to the actual language channel(s) for the corresponding language. The MOTD/pedia entry could emphasize they're not officially moderated/supported by CCP.

The goal would be to maintain high visibility for other unofficial language channels in the client to aid new players to make easy connections with existing players who speak their language. Helping people connect aids players to find people to spend their time with and seek help from, which in turn helps CCP to keep players happy and subscribed. The visibility part is the important part here, since new players are likely to struggle finding such channels without the aid of existing players and CCP is the only one who can ensure the needed easy access and visibility.

so has anyone bothered to post this information in their respective languages in their channels to get more responses? 10 pages seems a little low for what seems to be a hot button issue. CCP wont listen unless its 50 pages by monday morning with complaints.

so has anyone bothered to post this information in their respective languages in their channels to get more responses? 10 pages seems a little low for what seems to be a hot button issue. CCP wont listen unless its 50 pages by monday morning with complaints.

I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

The Rules:
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.

5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.

How come you moderate this forum post more than the chat channels ?

Just asking.

ISD CCL doesn't moderate Chat channels. Forums only.
But aside of that, it appears like it's actually really hard to find people willing to apply for Chat moderation ISD (you can't be logged in with your player and ISD account simultaneously. For German ISDs, I met two of them so far). On the other hand, it might be that the time until an application is processed takes a very long time (as per my own experience).

I can't see how this is a good idea. If you sell a product in a country, you surely support the language by definition? If you don't want to support the language then don't sell the product there seems the order of the day. If you sell the product in their country then surely not having the caveat "But you have to know how to speak another language" is inappropriate.

Telling players to just go make their own channels doesn't solve the problem because you are still responsible for moderating that chat. If someone is racist to me in swahili in a private channel I've created, or indeed any other "private" form of communication, how does that lessen your responsibility to investigate and intervene given that your terms of service have still been breached?

This seems like another example of a sledgehammer being used to crack a nut and is just going to hurt the people from these countries. I only speak the one language (badly) and I can see this is a terrible idea. You still have the responsibility to moderate the chat, and people will still complain to you about the conduct in these chats, the only difference is you got rid of some helpful official channels where people could congregate.

Seems like I'm saying this a lot recently, but way to drive chunks of your players away.

If you create a chatchannel and someone insults you ...
... and you - instead of blocking, muting and/or kicking him - write a petition instead ...
... then I have to question your mental state.

You may not abuse, harass or threaten another player or authorized representative of CCP, including customer service personnel and volunteers. This includes, but is not limited to: filing support tickets with false information in an attempt to gain from it or have someone else suffer from it; sending excessive e-mails, EVE-mails or support tickets; obstructing CCP Employees from doing their jobs; refusal to follow the instructions of a CCP Employee; or implying favoritism by a CCP Employee.

(added this as it also matches the topic:)
You may not use any abusive, defamatory, ethnically or racially offensive, harassing, harmful, hateful, obscene, offensive, sexually explicit, threatening or vulgar language. (Alternate spelling or partial masking of such words will be reprimanded in the same manner as the actual use of such words.)

Not really. Take a standard troll who likes to insult others just for the reaction. No matter who the target is. You block him and you're fine with that. The troll however, can continue to harass other players in the same or different channels, endlessly in theory.

I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

The Rules:
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.

5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.

we are paying you and giving you your salary, thats the fact and you are doing your worse

Ok so I told a few people to tell their respective chat channels that this was happening. They ignored it.

Ok so I told a few people to tell their respective chat channels that this was happening. They ignored it. Sadly enough you can post a huge issue and most of the people dont care it seems like. Well my guess is in a few days you will see a lot of player created chat channels for languages.

So everyone do that now start the transition.

The call on the Spanish channel has brought 3 more people here, and I will keep asking to post here if even in Spanish.

If nothing changes, then we'll have to object the change and ask for the return of those channels.

BTW, has someone contacted the CSM? Is there any CSM who speaks a non-supported language and can understand what those channels mean to our communities?