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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
Wolfgang Achari
Morior Invictus.
17
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Posted - 2014.10.23 18:54:07 -
[241] - Quote
Bronson Hughes wrote:Cant tell Ifserious wrote:The use of these weapons on existing ships with their current stats and price can't be justified.
You sacrifice: Lots of ISK, all of your tank, 25% optimal, 50% falloff You gain: ~15% DPS, ~10% tracking
You can't brawl because 0 tank You can't kite because crappy range You can't snipe effectively because crappy range You can't gank because high price
so whats the catch?
Also the name should be "HYPER" 800mm auto cannon .....etc imo Fixed that for you. I'd suggest waiting until we see that these T3 destroyers bring before passing final judgement. Maybe they have bonuses cancelling the penalty of these weapons? If that's the case, they'd be awesome.
What about the medium/large sized variants? |
Soden Rah
Rapier Industry and Technology Second Sun Rising
11
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Posted - 2014.10.23 18:57:21 -
[242] - Quote
Bronson Hughes wrote:Cant tell Ifserious wrote:The use of these weapons on existing ships with their current stats and price can't be justified.
You sacrifice: Lots of ISK, all of your tank, 25% optimal, 50% falloff You gain: ~15% DPS, ~10% tracking
You can't brawl because 0 tank You can't kite because crappy range You can't snipe effectively because crappy range You can't gank because high price
so whats the catch?
Also the name should be "HYPER" 800mm auto cannon .....etc imo Fixed that for you. I'd suggest waiting until we see that these T3 destroyers bring before passing final judgement. Maybe they have bonuses cancelling the penalty of these weapons? If that's the case, they'd be awesome.
If these modules are supposed to be used in conjunction with a new ship then we need the new ship to test them on. These are not currently being advertised as being compliments to the new T3 ships, and we don't have those T3 ships to test with. Also these modules have no special restrictions linking them to the T3 ships [unlike say cov ops cloaks]. So it's reasonable to assume that they have no particular link to these new T3 ships we know almost nothing about and can't test with and work under the assumption that they are for general use.
Incidentally are these turrets seeded anywhere outside of the test systems? Because there none seeded in the system/region I'm testing in atm.
EDIT: also what the post above said... |
WillusKillus
Hooded Underworld Guys Northern Coalition.
12
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Posted - 2014.10.23 19:05:14 -
[243] - Quote
This is just a really bizarre and pointless idea. |
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
596
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Posted - 2014.10.23 19:08:42 -
[244] - Quote
Wolfgang Achari wrote: What about the medium/large sized variants?
Bombers and Attack Battlecruisers can use over-sized weapons, so there is some precedent for it.
Honestly, I'm really just hoping that they're for use with the T3 destroyers because they seem so underwhelming on their own.
CCP Falcon's thoughts on suicide ganking.
Reading Comprehension: so important it deserves it's own skillbook.
I want to create content, not become content.
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Cant tell Ifserious
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2014.10.23 19:51:07 -
[245] - Quote
Bronson Hughes wrote:Cant tell Ifserious wrote:The use of these weapons on existing ships with their current stats and price can't be justified.
You sacrifice: Lots of ISK, all of your tank, 25% optimal, 50% falloff You gain: ~15% DPS, ~10% tracking
You can't brawl because 0 tank You can't kite because crappy range You can't snipe effectively because crappy range You can't gank because high price
so whats the catch?
Also the name should be "HYPER" 800mm auto cannon .....etc imo Fixed that for you. I'd suggest waiting until we see that these T3 destroyers bring before passing final judgement. Maybe they have bonuses cancelling the penalty of these weapons? If that's the case, they'd be awesome.
So the t3 destroyers will be able to fit the medium and large guns? no they wont......... You cant make guns just for one ship. All you guys are trying to compare these guns with the T3 destroyers. which is a very niche group and will most likely be nothing but elite pvp/ small gang pvp ships after awhile. Once people buy a t3 dessie and spin it in their hanger, the appeal will be gone and they will be just another ship. These guns need a larger dps boost and apparently ccp doesnt want you to snipe with them so they are messing with the fall off. :( |
Lynne Rankin
Podlins R Us
28
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Posted - 2014.10.23 20:19:21 -
[246] - Quote
After watching Zaqq's video about the Blighted weaponry, an interesting concept came up.
Why not have the blighted weaponry's negative affects be the following:
Shield Resistances Reduced by 100% Despite Resistance Module Bonuses Armor Resistances Reduced by 100% Despite Resistance Module Bonuses Structure Resistances Reduced by 100%
If Damage Control is fitted: Shield Resistance addition ignored Armor Resistance addition ignored Structure Resistance addition halved to 30% rather than 60%
This would give ships with Blighted weaponry at least some sort of tank, and be the only setup to effectively use hull-tanking (excluding freighters).
Hull-tanking, including a potential buff to hull reppers, could in theory become a thing.
Keep in mind, this is a suggestion if CCP goes with the plan that all resistances are brought to zero, rather than only base resistances.
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Bienator II
madmen of the skies
2913
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Posted - 2014.10.23 20:25:34 -
[247] - Quote
what bothers me most about the idea is that it doesn't make any sense in a scifi world. Sure you say that many things don't make sense in eve but this doesn't mean you have to ad more to it. Good scifi is believable.
eve style bounties (done)
dust boarding parties
imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW
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scorchlikeshiswhiskey
interstellar initiative Incorporated
304
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Posted - 2014.10.23 20:31:23 -
[248] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:what bothers me most about the idea is that it doesn't make any sense in a scifi world. Sure you say that many things don't make sense in eve but this doesn't mean you have to ad more to it. Good scifi is believable. Well, with the proper backing in the lore, I could see a weapon sucking all power from the shields to achieve an overheated-like effect. Naturally, sucking power only from shields would give armor tanked ships a huge edge so they have to remove armor resists as well, which is where it loses it's believability. |
Soden Rah
Rapier Industry and Technology Second Sun Rising
11
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Posted - 2014.10.23 20:37:44 -
[249] - Quote
Ok. First impressions...
After having a look at these turrets on SiSi with their current stats I just cannot see the point.
I have played with a number of different fitting options and the only viable strategy I can see for general use is for kiting/speed tank ships.
And these weapons just don't have the range, or enough dps boost to be worth while.
If you are keeping the no resists thing then I think they need to be in the 100%+ dps boost, AND have an increased range over their T2 counterparts.
When I first heard about these I thought that they might be an interesting and dynamic option for creating fast kiting fits that are paper thin but do awesome dps...
But the tiny dps boost coupled with REDUCED range kills this as a viable option.
The only viable way of adding hitpoints to these ships is shield expanders/plates... which make ships slower/easier to target and hit. and negates speed tanking which is what glass cannons are all about.
If you want to build a glass cannon you make it fast and agile so that it can get to range and lay down dps as fast as possible. You also make it cheep... Because glass cannons die.
I used to love going out in a cheap glass cannon fit T-Rex, fast tackle/dps boat. It got high up the damage lists on many a kill by getting their first and doing good/great dps when there. And it survived until the opposing gang picked you as primary and then it popped. My FC's would have thrown a fit if I stuck Faction priced mods on it for a 50%+ drop in ehp and only a ~10% boost in dps with reduced range.
To me, these weapons don't make sense.
I cannot see them working in their current form.
Also: info windows on SiSi have just stopped working for me... submitting bug repport. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
2994
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Posted - 2014.10.23 20:52:08 -
[250] - Quote
With all due respect, I think most of us here would really like to hear why EVE needs weapons like this in the first place. Perhaps if we knew that, we could give better feedback as to what direction they should go. |
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edeity
Holy Amarrian Battlemonk
13
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Posted - 2014.10.23 20:59:54 -
[251] - Quote
SO I CAN FIT GEMS? WILL THE ENCHANTRESS REROLL STATS OR DO I HAVE TO GET THE EXPANSION? |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
17303
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Posted - 2014.10.23 21:05:06 -
[252] - Quote
Soon I shall don my +3 Helm of Disintegration and smite thee with my +7 Wild Axe Mace of Doom.
I needed to stow my +4 Holy Shield of Protection in order to use my +7 Wild Axe Mace of Doom... its a two handed weapon.
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
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Kamahl Daikun
Hounds of War. Hashashin Cartel
0
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Posted - 2014.10.23 23:37:53 -
[253] - Quote
To toss in my few cents regarding the missiles.
Rockets are kind of hit and miss. In a way, they make sense. In another way, they make no sense at all. Even fitting a buffer on a frigate, 0% resists means you're going still taking heavy damage. Moreso than if you just used a normal fit. On a Hookbill, for instance, sure you can push 14km range on Rockets but exactly how many slots will you have to sacrifice to either survive long enough to kill someone or wreck their sensors so they can't even fight back?
HAMs and Torpedos just make no sense. Torpedos are mainly only a viable option for Stealth Bombers. Considering most SBs don't fit buffer or tank at all, this makes sense for them. However, adding a completely new weapon system for 4 ships? Seriously? I can't think of a valid use for HAMs either, even in PvE. The only situation where HAMs would be remotely viable would be Lvl 3's in a Drake. In which case you're tossing the Drake as soon as you hit Lvl 4's anyway.
Lastly, let's face it, for the BCs that do use HAMs or Torps, they're hardly ever seen anymore because BCs just don't fit into a lot of fleet comps. The poor mobility and poor warp speeds make that a bit too difficult right now.
This is a reasonably bad idea. I wouldn't mind it too much if useful missile turrets were offered, like LMLs, RLMLs, and CMs. Because, let's face it, Rockets and LML/RLML are the only missile fits used these days in PvP. CMs are awesome for PvE and PvP. |
scorchlikeshiswhiskey
interstellar initiative Incorporated
305
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Posted - 2014.10.24 00:53:14 -
[254] - Quote
Kamahl Daikun wrote:To toss in my few cents regarding the missiles.
Rockets are kind of hit and miss. In a way, they make sense. In another way, they make no sense at all. Even fitting a buffer on a frigate, 0% resists means you're going still taking heavy damage. Moreso than if you just used a normal fit. On a Hookbill, for instance, sure you can push 14km range on Rockets but exactly how many slots will you have to sacrifice to either survive long enough to kill someone or wreck their sensors so they can't even fight back?
HAMs and Torpedos just make no sense. Torpedos are mainly only a viable option for Stealth Bombers. Considering most SBs don't fit buffer or tank at all, this makes sense for them. However, adding a completely new weapon system for 4 ships? Seriously? I can't think of a valid use for HAMs either, even in PvE. The only situation where HAMs would be remotely viable would be Lvl 3's in a Drake. In which case you're tossing the Drake as soon as you hit Lvl 4's anyway.
Lastly, let's face it, for the BCs that do use HAMs or Torps, they're hardly ever seen anymore because BCs just don't fit into a lot of fleet comps. The poor mobility and poor warp speeds make that a bit too difficult right now.
This is a reasonably bad idea. I wouldn't mind it too much if useful missile turrets were offered, like LMLs, RLMLs, and CMs. Because, let's face it, Rockets and LML/RLML are the only missile fits used these days in PvP. CMs are awesome for PvE and PvP. Don't forget that, in the case of SB's, you would be fitting faction weapons at faction cost on a frig with 0 resist and no tank. Some people will, but for the majority I would say that there isn't much reason to. As for HAMs and torps, they're for structure grinding. That's the only case in which I can see someone willingly dropping their entire resist profile for damage. Also, the turrets get tracking bonuses and damage increase whereas missiles get the shaft yet again by only getting the RoF bonus and not even so much as an ammo cap increase. Just saying... |
Dr Wernstrom
Tri.City.Trading.Co
11
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Posted - 2014.10.24 01:16:43 -
[255] - Quote
Ok got to ask... these are supposed to be glass cannon weapon guns true?
This then implies high firepower at long range? So why were the short range variations of each weapon system chosen?
Gun Type......Short Range........Long Range Laser.............Pulse....................Beam Hybrid............Blaster..................Railgun Projectile.......Autocannon.........Artillery Missiles a bit different...
To me, there is the Paradox.
As an industrialist, I feed your war click after click after click....-á
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Aralieus
The Inf1dels
222
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Posted - 2014.10.24 01:56:07 -
[256] - Quote
Ok just got back from test server and I tried all the 'blighted' lasers of each size. Small, Medium and Large. The damage was ok but imho not worth the trade off for 0 resists. Just seems to harsh for the amount of damage gained over their normal T2 counterparts. I suggest either raising the DPS up or giving us back some resist. As it stands I don't see theses guns getting much use other than on SB's or attack battlecruisers (tier 3).
Also when in Bastion Mode why not let marauders have the bonus of just the bastion module given resists when 'blighted' guns are fitted
And please god change the name
Oderint Dum Metuant
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Aralieus
The Inf1dels
222
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Posted - 2014.10.24 02:25:45 -
[257] - Quote
I also just thought of something...you might gain an increase in DPS by what 15%-18% but your opponent gains an increase up to 100% with your 0% resists. Just not worth it.
Oderint Dum Metuant
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290xanaots
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
21
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Posted - 2014.10.24 02:57:30 -
[258] - Quote
Aralieus wrote:I also just thought of something...you might gain an increase in DPS by what 15%-18% but your opponent gains an increase up to 100% with your 0% resists. Just not worth it.
^^^This exactly. I was pretty excited about these, but I just hopped on the test server to try them out. I was expecting a significant increase in DPS, but as they are, they're just not worth it.
They're so obviously not worth it that it's not even worth my time to go looking for the sites I would want to run with them on Sisi. Let's start talking about numbers closer to the 50% mark and I'll go through the effort of finding sites and testing them. |
Gjallarhund
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
8
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Posted - 2014.10.24 04:29:04 -
[259] - Quote
I'd just like to say the following image is a better idea than this whole blighted gun thing seeing how worthless such a small increase in DPS vs loss of resists
decent idea
ninja edit: not a troll link either seriously. Blighted ammo makes a shitload more sense, you could do it in different grades offering different levels of dps increase vs resistance loss and make the whole idea not 100% worthless outside of fitting blighted small blasters to gank catalysts |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
2913
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Posted - 2014.10.24 04:37:37 -
[260] - Quote
alternative idea: a ship setting which allows you to permanently overheat your guns without damaging them but it removes most or all ship resistances.
no need for a new item.
eve style bounties (done)
dust boarding parties
imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW
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Galphii
The Order of Solar Enlightenment
280
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Posted - 2014.10.24 06:20:51 -
[261] - Quote
Given they seem to require 'thermonuclear charges' to build, I think 'irradiated' might be better than 'blighted' :)
The damage increase isn't exactly awe inspiring, given the vulnerability of ships fitting these things. A base thorax went from 278 to 309 dps. You can use layering membranes, plates, shield extenders etc to counter the effect to some degree so perhaps this has been taken into account. In this case, the degree of damage increase is kinda 'meh' and these strike me as being quite gimmicky, especially given the high price ccp have spoken about. Very niche. They seem to be quite functional on sisi.
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1824
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Posted - 2014.10.24 08:51:58 -
[262] - Quote
Bronson Hughes wrote:Cant tell Ifserious wrote:The use of these weapons on existing ships with their current stats and price can't be justified.
You sacrifice: Lots of ISK, all of your tank, 25% optimal, 50% falloff You gain: ~15% DPS, ~10% tracking
You can't brawl because 0 tank You can't kite because crappy range You can't snipe effectively because crappy range You can't gank because high price
so whats the catch?
Also the name should be "HYPER" 800mm auto cannon .....etc imo Fixed that for you. I'd suggest waiting until we see that these T3 destroyers bring before passing final judgement. Maybe they have bonuses cancelling the penalty of these weapons? If that's the case, they'd be awesome.
because you gonna fit 800mm in a destroyer?
Peope daydreamign that these weaons are for a specific ship class. WAKE UP. They are of all types and ALL sizes. They are not made to a specific type of ship.
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!"
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1824
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Posted - 2014.10.24 08:53:37 -
[263] - Quote
Scrap the Idea CCP. USe that time in something more useful and that can be balanced.
The whole idea is flawed from start. And would be useful ONLY for blasters shooting structures.
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!"
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Keith Planck
Lazerhawks
937
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Posted - 2014.10.24 08:59:05 -
[264] - Quote
Found a super unqiue idea for the new 'name redacted' weapons on reddit:
"from CyborgTriceratops via /r/Eve/ sent 56 minutes ago show parent I think something like 'every X% of resistance is transfered into 1% DPS increase.' You would then still tank set your ship, but the blighted weapons would turn their damage based on the resistance set."
So basically having blighted weapons on your ship would convert resistances into dps. Theoritically turning things like invulns into DPS mods. (although utility mods will still often be better)
A baseline could be T1 ships which get ~240 total resistances. So if you wanted T1 ships to get 20% dps with blighted guns, you'd give a 1% dps increase every 12% resistances eaten by the blight weapons.
A vargur with a damage control and an invuln gets ~823 total resistances. Which would be a 69% dps increase.
Even if you put 2 pithum-c invulns, an A-type enam, and a damage control, you'd stil only get a 78% dps increace. While a 1600 dps vargur does sound scary, they will be extremely vulnerable having no resistances.
Basically ships would scale anywhere between 20% dps increase (T1 resistances no damage mods) and 87% dps increase (100% shield and armor resistances with 60% hull resistances) with 100% dps increase being if you had 100% shield hull and armor resistances.
Would love to hear what you guys think about it o7
"Jack Miton liked your forum post:"
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Challus Mercer
Sacred Temple The Gorgon Empire
2
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Posted - 2014.10.24 09:07:11 -
[265] - Quote
In my opinion the most intersting alternative idea for such guns (was already offered here before) is to make this guns not only decrease your own resists to zero but to ignore the enemy resists as well. It would give this guns a very nice and uique role of active tank breakers, because they would wreck any ship with low HP in seconds, which is the case for active tank users. On the other hand this weapons would suck against plated or shield extended setups, which makes them pretty balanced in general - very good benefit but huge tradeoff as well. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
3141
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Posted - 2014.10.24 09:31:35 -
[266] - Quote
You know... it would be simpler and more elegant if those blighted weapons inflicted damage on the carrier ship rather than affect something totally unrelated such as resistence.
FAI: "Cursed Laser"
In "normal" mode, it does T2 damage with no side effects (but for a faction price tag). Yet on "overheat", it does 50% more damage and 10% of that damage will hit back your ship, bypassing all resists. As the damage emanates from the weapon, it would be spread as 50% to hull, 30% to armor and 20% to shields.
So let's say that your battery does 1000 DPS in normal mode -on "cursed overheat" it would do 1500 DPS and would inflict 150 DPS on your ship, shared as 75 DPS to hull, 45 DPS to armor and 30 DPS to shield. Numbers of course could be tweaked for balance.
That "cursed overheat" would allow a ship to go kamikaze and sacrifice its tank / hull for the ability to kill the enemy faster, even if the last shot could kill both the attacker and the target.
The "cursed overheat" also would allow greater tactical flexibility (FAI, by making hull tanking a serious option ) and, as I said, being damaged by overpowering your weapons makes more sense than a magical gun which removes your resists just because ~design~.
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! Ingame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
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Maeltstome
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
613
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Posted - 2014.10.24 09:38:16 -
[267] - Quote
"Rewired"
True Sansha Rewired Small Gatling Pulse Laser True Sansha Small Rewired Gatling Pulse Laser |
Maeltstome
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
613
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Posted - 2014.10.24 09:39:37 -
[268] - Quote
Galphii wrote:Given they seem to require 'thermonuclear charges' to build, I think 'irradiated' might be better than 'blighted' :)
The damage increase isn't exactly awe inspiring, given the vulnerability of ships fitting these things. A base thorax went from 278 to 309 dps. You can use layering membranes, plates, shield extenders etc to counter the effect to some degree so perhaps this has been taken into account. In this case, the degree of damage increase is kinda 'meh' and these strike me as being quite gimmicky, especially given the high price ccp have spoken about. Very niche. They seem to be quite functional on sisi.
That's better than my idea in terms of lore and continuity. |
Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire
726
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Posted - 2014.10.24 09:59:22 -
[269] - Quote
I like the idea of trading defenses for offenses as those guns are supposed to. Trading all your defenses (besides not being shot hue) for a laughable dps increase with questionable application is just not worth it
Edit: And damn that price, I don't feel like paying a premium several times the ship's value just to put a *most certainly disposable*-sticker on the windshield.
"I honestly thought I was in lowsec"
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Galphii
The Order of Solar Enlightenment
281
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Posted - 2014.10.24 10:17:26 -
[270] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Scrap the Idea CCP. USe that time in something more useful and that can be balanced.
The whole idea is flawed from start. And would be useful ONLY for blasters shooting structures. I have to agree with this. I can see what you're going for, but I don't think it's a productive use of time when there are so many other things to work on.
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