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Capqu Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx 974	Posted - 2015.01.15 20:48:56 - [1] - Quote This was announced on stream. The option to disable friendly fire for your corp. PLEASE GOD tell me this isn't as dumb as it sounds. This would remove corp awoxing in nullsec as well as highsec, which I'm sure isn't the intention. Highsec awoxing is already a dying profession, you basically delete it with this. Nullsec awoxing shouldn't rely on finding someone who isn't in your corp. Literally the worst idea I've ever heard, and CCP Punkturis is usually all good stuff. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPntjTPWgKE
Jaffa Hashur Illustrious Continuum 0	Posted - 2015.01.15 21:00:13 - [2] - Quote Exactly how does it remove Null-sec Awoxing?
Capqu Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx 974	Posted - 2015.01.15 21:01:07 - [3] - Quote Jaffa Hashur wrote: Exactly how does it remove Null-sec Awoxing? no friendly fire was how it was worded on stream it obviously might not be how its actually implemented https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPntjTPWgKE
Arden Elenduil Unlimited Ripoff Works 246	Posted - 2015.01.15 21:04:00 - [4] - Quote Wouldn't make a difference in nullsec And, as dishonourable as i find your tactics in eve online (bloody griffin), i agree with your statement that it shouldn't be implemented
Dersen Lowery Drinking in Station 1426	Posted - 2015.01.15 21:06:33 - [5] - Quote Didn't Awox just get on grid with anomaly-running corpmates, light a cyno, and suddenly reds? Meaning that the whole scheme relied on people out of corp, and this change wouldn't affect it at all? If anything, it would make that tactic more effective, because the no-corp-aggression flag would give the impression of increased safety. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.
Capqu Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx 975	Posted - 2015.01.15 21:13:16 - [6] - Quote Dersen Lowery wrote: Didn't Awox just get on grid with anomaly-running corpmates, light a cyno, and suddenly reds? Meaning that the whole scheme relied on people out of corp, and this change wouldn't affect it at all? If anything, it would make that tactic more effective, because the no-corp-aggression flag would give the impression of increased safety. no you scrample the guy or he just warps off https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPntjTPWgKE
Capqu Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx 975	Posted - 2015.01.15 21:14:05 - [7] - Quote Jaffa Hashur wrote: Exactly how does it remove Null-sec Awoxing? EDIT Oh right, you assumed that it was actually going to do what they said instead of the mechanically obvious thing. No I don't have a source other than the crystal ball I have here, but this is how it's going to work: When the option is enabled crimewatch will react to to violence between corp members in the same way it reacts to NPC corp members fighting. thats still awful and removes high sec awoxing entirely https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPntjTPWgKE
Alundil Isogen 5 838	Posted - 2015.01.15 21:16:40 - [8] - Quote Eve Online 2015: The most dangerous sandbox ever (some exclusions may apply) I'm right behind you
Arya Regnar Darwins Right Hand 652	Posted - 2015.01.15 21:16:48 - [9] - Quote Confirming I don't like this and making eve safe isn't going to make it any more fun or better in any way as it just babysits the idiots. EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
Dersen Lowery Drinking in Station 1426	Posted - 2015.01.15 21:23:00 - [10] - Quote Capqu wrote: Dersen Lowery wrote: Didn't Awox just get on grid with anomaly-running corpmates, light a cyno, and suddenly reds? Meaning that the whole scheme relied on people out of corp, and this change wouldn't affect it at all? If anything, it would make that tactic more effective, because the no-corp-aggression flag would give the impression of increased safety. no you scrample the guy or he just warps off Unless you bump him. I'm not saying it's a good idea, necessarily, I'm just trying to see what the actual boundaries of the change would be. For one example: it's not unusual for bubblers to trap their own fleets intentionally. If you're in a corp that has this flag set, can you not inflate a bubble around both your own fleet and the hostiles in order to force a close-range brawl? Does the hictor just magically fail to do its job? Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.
Elenahina Agony Unleashed Agony Empire 16	Posted - 2015.01.15 21:27:09 - [11] - Quote Arya Regnar wrote: Confirming I don't like this and making eve safe isn't going to make it any more fun or better in any way as it just babysits the idiots. I have to agree with this. Intra corp agression is not something that needs to be changed. They already added a way to kick people from corp even if they won't dock, so at most you're stuck with the guy for a day after he strikes. If you want to be safer, use the 3 pounds of offal inside your cranium in a more effective fashion.
Arya Regnar Darwins Right Hand 653	Posted - 2015.01.15 21:32:31 - [12] - Quote CCP advertised eve with awoxing in their videos and consequences and all that, sandbox mechanics are what makes this game so great, if you remove that you destroy eve for what it i¦¦s¦¦ was. EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
Sladislov Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx 50	Posted - 2015.01.15 22:39:15 - [13] - Quote Yes lets remove another profession from eve, lets the remove one of the fundamental mechanics. A huge but understandable blow was dealt with the expel option, but this just outright kills the Highsec Awoxer. No longer do people have to care about who they invite into their corp, no longer do they have to check api keys. Just invite everyone without a care in the world. One of the things about eve that i like is that you have to choose who to trust carefully, but slowly this choice is being taken away as more and more measures are being taken to turn highsec into a cozy place that is perfectly safe. This is a slippery slope. Lets remove highsec player character damage altogether! Lets remove ninja salvaging as well, and suicide ganking, and all the other ways you can interact with players. Lets all be friends and walk merrily hand in hand as we dont have to care about anything. It is REALLY easy to pick out an awoxer when he applies to your corp, all this is going to do is let stupid people get away with being stupid. You cant get away with being a ****** in low or null, why would you be able to get away with it in highsec? EvE is losing its edge, slowly becoming a softer, nicer place instead of a winner takes all "Everyone Versus Everyone" universe. if my sub runs out i will probably not extend it. this pretty much ruins the game for many people and i hope ccp reconsiders (hahaha as if) I'd like a dev answer if they are actually intending to make highsec a theme-park WoW kind of place. (edit: that ad with choices matter, i guess they dont when u cant even damage anyone) -á-á-á-á-á-á Sladislov Director of Silly semantics -á-á-á-á-á-áBroksi Kurth -á-á xXxBlack LegionxXx
Rawketsled Generic Corp Name 55	Posted - 2015.01.15 22:40:51 - [14] - Quote Disclaimer: I'm in a crummy timezone, so I haven't seen the stream. What about adding a, say, 10% tax that gets paid to Concord/SCC if the corp has that option set? Monetary incentive to turn the option off, but with the risk of the game being fun.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11208	Posted - 2015.01.15 22:51:28 - [15] - Quote Rawketsled wrote: Disclaimer: I'm in a crummy timezone, so I haven't seen the stream. What about adding a, say, 10% tax that gets paid to Concord/SCC if the corp has that option set? Monetary incentive to turn the option off, but with the risk of the game being fun. I like this idea. More safety should not come for free. Nevermind that this idea is completely absurd, and just removes an iconic feature of the game for pretty much no reason. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Iain Cariaba 906	Posted - 2015.01.15 22:57:30 - [16] - Quote Sladislov wrote: I'd like a dev answer if they are actually intending to make highsec a theme-park WoW kind of place. I'd like an answer on this, too. Even though I do little in highsec anymore, I feel that removing intra-corp combat from highsec violates the Everyone vs. Everyone attitude that is the main reason I pay the monthly subscription fees and play this game. My opinion is that, if CCP continues to take steps to make the game into carebear wonderland, why should I continue to pay them when I can get all the carebear wonderland I can stand in free games? EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
Velicitia XS Tech 2773	Posted - 2015.01.15 22:59:11 - [17] - Quote If hisec becomes a carebear wonderland, hope the markets, belts, moons, etc get gutted and made worthless. Also, add loads more lowsec. One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11208	Posted - 2015.01.15 23:05:13 - [18] - Quote Oh, and classify dec dodging as an exploit now. You know, since the only real way to actually get at people who dodge wardecs was to awox them. And if you're removing that, their ability to be 100% immune to wardecs should be removed as well. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Techno-Viking Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2015.01.15 23:34:08 - [19] - Quote How does stopping awoxing make it more like theme park? You can still scam, gank, go suspect etc etc on the thousands of other players floating around. I've personally never been awoxed, so I can't talk from experience. However if I was a noob/ causal player and joined a corp, got awoxed of that t2 fit bs/barge that took ages to afford, I'd pretty much go, well f this, I'm off, that was a waste of time. Now before everyone starts with the 'well that's eve' etc etc, yeah i agree it is. However it is to you because your a bitter vet who reads the forums and is invested in this game. If your not that invested into eve and a new/ casual player, instead of dustng yourself off and trying again, you just won't resub. The long term log in figures and retention of new players shows a decline, therefore ccp as a business has to do something. I'm not saying awoxing is the main reason for this decline, but anything to minimise the reasons for people leaving this game at the beginning has to be seen as a positive thing surely? More people online, means more people to pew against, more money for ccp, hopefully a long lasting and better game =ƒÿä
Lugh Crow-Slave 496	Posted - 2015.01.15 23:36:17 - [20] - Quote Well at least i can just hit accept on every invite no need to actually give them even a modicum not like eve was about emergent player interactions anyway. I suppose next we should expect increased CONCORD responses times as well? or are we going to ban jita scamers if you want to turn off corp on corp pvp then don't let anyone into your corp Fuel block colors
Mario Putzo Welping and Dunking. 1101	Posted - 2015.01.15 23:44:50 - [21] - Quote Good **** awoxing, coward gameplay. If you want to brawl hit me up in corp chat and we will undock and brawl.
Lugh Crow-Slave 496	Posted - 2015.01.16 00:23:15 - [22] - Quote went and watched the 07 and saw that they were going to make it an option. so effectively corps can now be 100% safe from awoxers but the person joining the corp is still just as much at risk. that seems right right? Fuel block colors
Livonian Kaesong Kosmonauts 16	Posted - 2015.01.16 01:23:27 - [23] - Quote Let me preface this by saying I think the entire idea undermines the core values of EVE. CCP always goes on and on about meaningful gameplay and choices. Well where is the meaningful gameplay or decisions in effectively allowing highsec corps to be 100% safe simply by checking a box. Why wouldn't every corp in highsec check it? What is the counter play to it? As others have also mentioned it removes all the gameplay elements involved in vetting and trusting a new corp member in highsec, while deleting an enjoyablestyle of play
Mario Putzo Welping and Dunking. 1102	Posted - 2015.01.16 01:30:05 - [24] - Quote Livonian wrote: Let me preface this by saying I think the entire idea undermines the core values of EVE. CCP always goes on and on about meaningful gameplay and choices. Well where is the meaningful gameplay or decisions in effectively allowing highsec corps to be 100% safe simply by checking a box. Why wouldn't every corp in highsec check it? What is the counter play to it? As others have also mentioned it removes all the gameplay elements involved in vetting and trusting a new corp member in highsec, while deleting an enjoyablestyle of play Then make your own Awoxing corp. Invite fellow Awoxers and you guys can sneak up on each other and kill each others **, or don't who gives a . If people want to play in peace, let them. If you want to shoot them, declare a war an hope they undock. Awoxing is *** **, everyone knows it, and this change doesn't limit that playstyle at all. Unless your only path to Awoxing is taking advantage of rookie corp leaders. Step your game up son.
Livonian Kaesong Kosmonauts 16	Posted - 2015.01.16 01:35:21 - [25] - Quote Mario Putzo wrote: Livonian wrote: Let me preface this by saying I think the entire idea undermines the core values of EVE. CCP always goes on and on about meaningful gameplay and choices. Well where is the meaningful gameplay or decisions in effectively allowing highsec corps to be 100% safe simply by checking a box. Why wouldn't every corp in highsec check it? What is the counter play to it? As others have also mentioned it removes all the gameplay elements involved in vetting and trusting a new corp member in highsec, while deleting an enjoyablestyle of play Then make your own Awoxing corp. Invite fellow Awoxers and you guys can sneak up on each other and kill each others **, or don't who gives a . If people want to play in peace, let them. If you want to shoot them, declare a war an hope they undock. Awoxing is *** **, everyone knows it, and this change doesn't limit that playstyle at all. Unless your only path to Awoxing is taking advantage of rookie corp leaders. Step your game up son. go back to wow if you want consensual pvp
Arya Regnar Darwins Right Hand 654	Posted - 2015.01.16 02:13:05 - [26] - Quote Mario Putzo wrote: Good **** awoxing, coward gameplay. If you want to brawl hit me up in corp chat and we will undock and brawl. I know you ex wow players have a thing for consensual pvp but eve was centered on it not being that way. Highsec will get even more dull with this change. EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
Sir Substance GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 656	Posted - 2015.01.16 02:34:31 - [27] - Quote There's no condition under which I could accept this. One of the unique attributes of eve is that it provides no safety mechanisms for interpersonal interaction. Guilds in WoW don't background check their members, because the worst a member can do is spam chat and maybe not heal at an important moment. In eve, the worst a member can do is destroy your corps entire ISK making backbone (I once saw Psychotic Monk do a quality awox where he got a freighter and half a dozen mackinaws in a belt), and so we background check new members. Well, we did. No need to worry about that Awoxing Pizzaspy McShootsblues guy. He seems a bit sus, but we've got FF turned off so whatever, he can't do anything. Yes, this game concept has some downsides, but it's core to the concept of eve. Trust no one, watch your back and if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Scrapping it would be a mistake. The beatings will continue until posting improves. -Magnus Cortex
Donnachadh United Allegiance of Undesirables 90	Posted - 2015.01.16 02:35:14 - [28] - Quote Sladislov wrote: Yes lets remove another profession from eve, lets the remove one of the fundamental mechanics. A huge but understandable blow was dealt with the expel option, but this just outright kills the Highsec Awoxer. No longer do people have to care about who they invite into their corp, no longer do they have to check api keys. Just invite everyone without a care in the world. This section spurred some thoughts. Heading into a bit of contradictory thoughts here. High sec AWOXing is little more than a license to kill without incurring a Concord response and as such I see no real benefits to the game in having it. Even so I agree that it is a mechanic that has it's place since it is obvious that there are pllyers that enjoy it.. Are further nerfs needed to AWOXing as a whole? Not as far as I am concerned, as a player and the CEO of a small corp there are more than enough tools available to handle an AWOXer and yet I wonder. Perhaps all of this rumor floating about is part of the longer range plan of encouraging those of the PvP persuasion to move from high sec into low or null by leaving them with nothing they can shoot at. I know many say it would be bad for the game and I disagree. If it was done carefully and as part of a plan to revamp all areas of space the game would not only survive having a 100% safe area of space it would actually allow EVE an even greater growth potential.
Mario Putzo Welping and Dunking. 1102	Posted - 2015.01.16 02:53:42 - [29] - Quote Livonian wrote: go back to wow if you want consensual pvp LoL whats ur K:D ratio brah? At least I don't have to join up with corps to gank unexpecting people and call it Peeveepee. 1337Sauce mate.
Ines Tegator Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc. 533	Posted - 2015.01.16 03:01:32 - [30] - Quote Oh. No. Spies might have to take risks to get kills now. How. Dreadful. The game will never recover from this unreasonable burden. I'm in shock. Eve is going to die. Boo. Hoo. Hoo. Overhaul Dscan!
Daichi Yamato Xero Security and Technologies 2173	Posted - 2015.01.16 03:07:56 - [31] - Quote Soon i will be starting a corp with an empty alt. Recruitment will be open to anyone, and everyone. I will also be spamming noob systems and markets with my corp ads claiming to be the god of eve who can save you from wardecs, gankers and give you free stuff. all aps will be accepted. 10% tax. You dont need to be active. You dont need to be sociable (in fact pls dont). You dont need to work together with us. I dont care what you do and in fact prefer if it has nothing to do with me. I wont teach you about the game. I wont help you if you're in trouble. If we get decced, ill go on 'holiday' or be 'busy at work' but you should still mission so you can make money. Thats the crux of your life right? The free stuff i promised you will be paid from corp tax, but we need to build up my corp wallet a bit first. I know 99% of corps will be like this, but you should really join my one because my empty alt is the god of eve. Why would you know any better? you're a noob and like i give a **** what the NPE is like when i get free isk from the influx of gullable WoW players. 'lawl' EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
Livonian Kaesong Kosmonauts 17	Posted - 2015.01.16 03:35:37 - [32] - Quote Mario Putzo wrote: Livonian wrote: go back to wow if you want consensual pvp LoL whats ur K:D ratio brah? At least I don't have to join up with corps to gank unexpecting people and call it Peeveepee. 1337Sauce mate. nice dude
Lugh Crow-Slave 496	Posted - 2015.01.16 04:06:39 - [33] - Quote Mario Putzo wrote: Livonian wrote: Let me preface this by saying I think the entire idea undermines the core values of EVE. CCP always goes on and on about meaningful gameplay and choices. Well where is the meaningful gameplay or decisions in effectively allowing highsec corps to be 100% safe simply by checking a box. Why wouldn't every corp in highsec check it? What is the counter play to it? As others have also mentioned it removes all the gameplay elements involved in vetting and trusting a new corp member in highsec, while deleting an enjoyablestyle of play Then make your own Awoxing corp. Invite fellow Awoxers and you guys can sneak up on each other and kill each others **, or don't who gives a . If people want to play in peace, let them. If you want to shoot them, declare a war an hope they undock. Awoxing is *** **, everyone knows it, and this change doesn't limit that playstyle at all. Unless your only path to Awoxing is taking advantage of rookie corp leaders. Step your game up son. They will and what they will do is invite new players into the game get them missing in a navy BS then blow it this doesn't remove awoxing all it does is put all of the risk on the person joining rather than the corp Fuel block colors
Jordanna Bauer Mafia Redux 72	Posted - 2015.01.16 04:28:51 - [34] - Quote Official Eve Online: Warlords of New Eden changelist: - Togglable PvP.
Caleb Seremshur The Atomic Fallout Kids 461	Posted - 2015.01.16 05:07:59 - [35] - Quote Dersen Lowery wrote: Didn't Awox just get on grid with anomaly-running corpmates, light a cyno, and suddenly reds? Meaning that the whole scheme relied on people out of corp, and this change wouldn't affect it at all? If anything, it would make that tactic more effective, because the no-corp-aggression flag would give the impression of increased safety. AWOX started out in amarr militia dunking people in caldari militia because he appears as a purple and used that to his advantage, also only standings loss with caldari (which didn't matter because he was amarr). Where he went after that who knows but it was just another example of poorly thought out game mechanics. 'high sec awoxing' was years overdue for an overhaul, it was basically an exploit. Join channel Aussies in space to chat with AU/NZ players
Omnathious Deninard Novis Initiis 2682	Posted - 2015.01.16 05:13:06 - [36] - Quote I was unaware that this check box to allow AWOXing also removed the risk of being suicide ganked.
Sir Substance GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 658	Posted - 2015.01.16 05:20:22 - [37] - Quote Ines Tegator wrote: Oh. No. Spies might have to take risks to get kills now. No, spies will, depending on implementation, simply be blocked from getting kills OR be exactly like suicide gankers. There is no risk. The beatings will continue until posting improves. -Magnus Cortex Official Eve Online changelist: Togglable PvP. - Jordanna Bauer
Sir Substance GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 658	Posted - 2015.01.16 05:24:45 - [38] - Quote Jordanna Bauer wrote: Official Eve Online: Warlords of New Eden changelist: - Togglable PvP. That sums up the problem so fantastically I've added it to my sig The beatings will continue until posting improves. -Magnus Cortex Official Eve Online changelist: Togglable PvP. - Jordanna Bauer
Daichi Yamato Xero Security and Technologies 2173	Posted - 2015.01.16 05:32:13 - [39] - Quote can you tell me what good will come from taking AWOXing out? What does this do other than enable NPC alts to have corp tax and assets then obscure corps that are interested in actual group play? EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
Caleb Seremshur The Atomic Fallout Kids 461	Posted - 2015.01.16 05:44:05 - [40] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: can you tell me what good will come from taking AWOXing out? What does this do other than enable NPC alts to have corp tax and assets then obscure corps that are interested in actual group play? Can you please look at your own signature before writing things on this topic? Faction warfare pilot and solo/small gang PVP advocate
Sir Substance GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 658	Posted - 2015.01.16 05:55:29 - [41] - Quote Caleb Seremshur wrote: Can you please look at your own signature before writing things on this topic? It's kind of a distressing point. PvP could happen at any time in eve, but we're transitioning from "PvP is a part of this game" to "technically, it's not impossible for it to happen under niche circumstances, people still PvP in null you know". The beatings will continue until posting improves. -Magnus Cortex Official Eve Online changelist: Togglable PvP. - Jordanna Bauer
Aiyshimin Shiva Furnace 333	Posted - 2015.01.16 05:55:42 - [42] - Quote Better late than never. This should have happened years ago, along suicide tanks and wardeccing, awoxing is one of the main reasons for the negative growth is EVE.
Alvatore DiMarco Capricious Endeavours Ltd 3269	Posted - 2015.01.16 06:02:53 - [43] - Quote Go back and read the most recent CSM minutes. The topic of intra-corp aggression is discussed pretty thoroughly, and CCP Seagull is involved in the conversations as well. If you read it and still don't understand why CCP wants to do this, then .. I don't know what to say to you. Regardless of whether I support this measure or not, you must admit that all the vetting in the world is of limited use and is in fact absolutely useless against a clever awoxer who's willing to do the work (and use the alts) to not get caught.
Daichi Yamato Xero Security and Technologies 2173	Posted - 2015.01.16 06:04:18 - [44] - Quote Caleb Seremshur wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: can you tell me what good will come from taking AWOXing out? What does this do other than enable NPC alts to have corp tax and assets then obscure corps that are interested in actual group play? Can you please look at your own signature before writing things on this topic? If you cant even answer my question, what the **** are you doing posting in favor of its removal?? EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
Daichi Yamato Xero Security and Technologies 2173	Posted - 2015.01.16 06:06:55 - [45] - Quote Alvatore DiMarco wrote: *clever* awoxer who's *willing to do the work*(and use the alts) to not get caught. The horror... i guess the message in my sig is a pretty important one then. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
FT Diomedes The Graduates Forged of Fire 804	Posted - 2015.01.16 06:09:57 - [46] - Quote I get that Eve is supposed to be a harsh, cold universe and all, but one of the major downsides to Eve is that it has historically been very hard to join up with other players and work together. This denies many people the social aspect of Eve and that really hurts retention. This comic is very appropriate. I don't want to see Eve become truly less dangerous, but I also really don't give a **** about some highsec AWOXer having to adapt his gameplay if it results in a few more retentions. The Greatest Ship Ever. Credit to Shahfluffers.
Daichi Yamato Xero Security and Technologies 2173	Posted - 2015.01.16 06:20:12 - [47] - Quote Quote: historically been very hard to join up with other players and work together. Start a new char. Send out some apps. Have a chat. you'll find that it isnt. The problem with finding a corp is finding one that actually does what it says on the tin. And players of multiple MMO's have always said their bonds with their EVE online corpies have always been the strongest. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
Caleb Seremshur The Atomic Fallout Kids 461	Posted - 2015.01.16 06:20:53 - [48] - Quote Aiyshimin wrote: Better late than never. This should have happened years ago, along suicide tanks and wardeccing, awoxing is one of the main reasons for the negative growth is EVE. Wardeccing has a time and a place, for highsec, whether you feel a corporation should be allowed to wardec as many as 120 others at any time is a different matter. Whether people should even be allowed to exist in an NPC corporation after joining a player corporation is another question. Whether highsec is too big, too many missions, too high payout, too much ore, too many moons for POS, POS guns even being allowed, wardecs being a thing, bumping, Globby tactics, the lack of a diverse resource economy, gluttony of accounts, too many alts, not enough gate pirates, AFK cloaking, ISBOXing (it's still happening, reporting is a proactive process), Awoxing of the weak, needing the weak to awox, being weak enough to need to awox, weapon and ship imbalance, no caps in highsec (due to change apparently, under consideration etc) and all the spectrum of events that flow from these things. There's dozens of failures in the game that cumulatively are pushing new players out. And CCP have said they're finnicky about touching them because highsec carebears constitute the greater portion of their playerbase. If movements like CODE were having serious implications for sub counts you think CCP wouldn't have outlawed them and IP banned them? Like they do to exploiters? Oh Jesus no don't be so naive, CODE and it's flunky pretenders would have been extinguished years ago. Don't ** with CCP's bottom line. IIRC even the guys who pulled a fast one on the original FW revamp LP award system got banned despite it all being clearly above the belt. Quote: If you cant even answer my question, what the ** are you doing posting in favor of its removal?? I don't think you really grasp the issue. The issue isn't really awoxing the issue is why we've been led to this scenario in the first place. Faction warfare pilot and solo/small gang PVP advocate
Alvatore DiMarco Capricious Endeavours Ltd 3270	Posted - 2015.01.16 06:25:52 - [49] - Quote Page 74: Team Five-O Ctrl-F for "Session: Team Five-O". The conversation about awoxing starts there.
Daichi Yamato Xero Security and Technologies 2173	Posted - 2015.01.16 06:28:40 - [50] - Quote If thats what its really about, catering to the masses of carebears, then EVE has pulled/is going to pull an 'ultima online'. If i ever believe thats whats happening, i will be QQing. But you still havent said why YOU are in favour of removing it. You still havent answered my question. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 675	Posted - 2015.01.16 06:48:20 - [51] - Quote Neutral logi. That is all. None of the crying folks in here are thinking of the possibilities of giving people a little more security - they'll think they are immortal and so other ways to perform hilarious kills open up. Perhaps if you stop drowning yourself in tears and give it some thought.....
Daichi Yamato Xero Security and Technologies 2173	Posted - 2015.01.16 06:50:07 - [52] - Quote afkalt wrote: Neutral logi. That is all. Why cant crimewatch deal with this? Why cant shooting corpies start a LE? If it can be made to start a Criminal timer, why not a LE? EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
Caleb Seremshur The Atomic Fallout Kids 462	Posted - 2015.01.16 07:27:30 - [53] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: If thats what its really about, catering to the masses of carebears, then EVE has pulled/is going to pull an 'ultima online'. If i ever believe thats whats happening, i will be QQing. But you still havent said why YOU are in favour of removing it. You still havent answered my question. And I'm not going to, because I've answered this same question dozens of times and running over old ground makes me want to stick my **** in a blender. Thread reported for redundancy. Faction warfare pilot and solo/small gang PVP advocate
Ines Tegator Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc. 533	Posted - 2015.01.16 07:36:33 - [54] - Quote Alvatore DiMarco wrote: Page 74: Team Five-O Ctrl-F for "Session: Team Five-O". The conversation about awoxing starts there. Quoting some relevant parts. Quote: CCP FoxFour - The idea that this is the only way to cause harm by joining a corporation does not exist. You can join a corporation and still assassinate someone. You can convince them to give you assets. You can convince them to go throu gh a low sec gate. You can convince them to go mission in an expensive ship and suicide gank them Quote: CCP Bettik - What sold me on this point was we are teaching people that it's safer in an NPC corporation than a player corporation. We know that it is better for them to join a player corp oration, but we want to make sure that people can get into a corporation. We know that there is a social barrier for some and some people have truly bad experiences. However, this is about the person that joins a corp and suddenly they are dead and they do nGÇÖt know what happened. Quote: CCP Fozzie - In a game where it is important to get people to interact with other people we have a situation where if your ISK is not made from bounties and you do not need the extra features of a corporation that the optimum choice in all circumstances is not to play with other people. We don't want it to be this way. Overhaul Dscan!
Sladislov Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx 53	Posted - 2015.01.16 08:10:39 - [55] - Quote This is the start of a slippery slope. I am not sure how the rest of ccp is fine with removing an integral part of what makes eve eve. -á-á-á-á-á-á Sladislov Director of Silly semantics -á-á-á-á-á-áBroksi Kurth -á-á xXxBlack LegionxXx
Alvatore DiMarco Capricious Endeavours Ltd 3270	Posted - 2015.01.16 08:35:07 - [56] - Quote Sladislov wrote: This is the start of a slippery slope. I am not sure how the rest of ccp is fine with removing an integral part of what makes eve eve. Probably because this "integral part" is having a significantly detrimental effect on people experiencing the other "integral parts" of EVE.
Sladislov Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx 53	Posted - 2015.01.16 08:38:21 - [57] - Quote Alvatore DiMarco wrote: Sladislov wrote: This is the start of a slippery slope. I am not sure how the rest of ccp is fine with removing an integral part of what makes eve eve. Probably because this "integral part" is having a significantly detrimental effect on people experiencing the other "integral parts" of EVE. If people really want to dwell in highsec and invite whoever they want without even checking who they are, i think i have the better game for you Only people who agree with this new change have been awoxed before and are too dumb to realize what mistakes they made, "OH HE HAS KILLED HIS OWN CORP MEMBERS 30 TIMES BETTER ACCEPT HIM" "WOW WHY ARE YOU SHOOTING ME" -á-á-á-á-á-á Sladislov Director of Silly semantics -á-á-á-á-á-áBroksi Kurth -á-á xXxBlack LegionxXx
Adrie Atticus Shadows of Rebellion The Bastion 832	Posted - 2015.01.16 08:47:32 - [58] - Quote Ya'll yelling slippery slopes and death of hisec, would you care to explain how you got into this argument now seeing how this discussion wasn't as vibrant when CONCORD was made invincible? I think you're too attached to the status quo of things to imagine a system which will benefit every walk of life more in the long run. Yes, removing PvP options is not the ideal situation, but the targets are still there. If they undock, they consent to PvP and are as valid targets. It takes, what, a handful over a dozen catalysts to pop the most blinged out mission boat (theyr'e not ships, ships are for PvP)? If CCP's projections of player retention come to fruition with this change and they can continue to work towards the total removal of safe NPC corps from hisec then this first step is an easy one to implement and revert at any point. Of course, you'd see this if you read this whole post and didn't take the bait on first 2 paragraphs, we'll see.
Sladislov Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx 53	Posted - 2015.01.16 09:03:06 - [59] - Quote Adrie Atticus wrote: Ya'll yelling slippery slopes and death of hisec, would you care to explain how you got into this argument now seeing how this discussion wasn't as vibrant when CONCORD was made invincible? I think you're too attached to the status quo of things to imagine a system which will benefit every walk of life more in the long run. Yes, removing PvP options is not the ideal situation, but the targets are still there. If they undock, they consent to PvP and are as valid targets. It takes, what, a handful over a dozen catalysts to pop the most blinged out mission boat (theyr'e not ships, ships are for PvP)? If CCP's projections of player retention come to fruition with this change and they can continue to work towards the total removal of safe NPC corps from hisec then this first step is an easy one to implement and revert at any point. Of course, you'd see this if you read this whole post and didn't take the bait on first 2 paragraphs, we'll see. Invincible concord is a lot different than outright removing the ability to do damage; the one makes the nigh-invincible police force really invincible, the other straight up removes gameplay elements. Also about the player retention, i'd rather not change the game fundamentally to appeal to newer people more. All of us started as new people and we are still here. More does not equal better. -á-á-á-á-á-á Sladislov Director of Silly semantics -á-á-á-á-á-áBroksi Kurth -á-á xXxBlack LegionxXx
Anthar Thebess 830	Posted - 2015.01.16 09:14:25 - [60] - Quote Another important feature removed
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 675	Posted - 2015.01.16 09:22:16 - [61] - Quote For something so "big" the awox section of zkillboard is surprising static compared to the rest of it (and also muddied by consentual corp on corp violence.). At time of posting page 1 of awox goes back to 21:26 11th Jan. Page 1 of actual killboard goes back 19 minutes.
Sladislov Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx 53	Posted - 2015.01.16 09:40:43 - [62] - Quote Amount of Jewish people in the middle east are also insignificant to the amount of Arabic people, are you saying we should eradicate the jews too? let me rephrase this, Just because less people are doing a certain thing does not mean you can just remove something. -á-á-á-á-á-á Sladislov Director of Silly semantics -á-á-á-á-á-áBroksi Kurth -á-á xXxBlack LegionxXx
Ima Wreckyou The Conference Elite CODE. 725	Posted - 2015.01.16 09:48:55 - [63] - Quote I guess the most important question now is. Do I need the director role to "flip the switch"? It seams that reverse Awoxing is still ok. the Code ALWAYS wins
Sladislov Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx 53	Posted - 2015.01.16 09:59:28 - [64] - Quote And if it keeps reverse awoxing alive, they still havent fixed being 'safe' when you join a corp. -á-á-á-á-á-á Sladislov Director of Silly semantics -á-á-á-á-á-áBroksi Kurth -á-á xXxBlack LegionxXx
ISD Ezwal ISD Community Communications Liaisons 3618	Posted - 2015.01.16 10:06:51 - [65] - Quote I have removed a rule breaking post and the one quoting it. The Rules: 6. Racism and discrimination are prohibited. Racism, gender stereotyping and hate speech are not permitted on the EVE Online Forums. Derogatory posting that includes race, religion or sexual preference based personal attacks and trolling can result in immediate suspension of forum posting privileges. ISD Ezwal Vice Admiral Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department
Sladislov Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx 54	Posted - 2015.01.16 10:09:57 - [66] - Quote ISD Ezwal wrote: I have removed a rule breaking post and the one quoting it. The Rules: 6. Racism and discrimination are prohibited. Racism, gender stereotyping and hate speech are not permitted on the EVE Online Forums. Derogatory posting that includes race, religion or sexual preference based personal attacks and trolling can result in immediate suspension of forum posting privileges. I'm sorry, it wasnt meant as a derogatory remark, i merely wanted to illustrate that just because something is a minority it doesnt automatically mean that i can be removed without consequences. It was a neutral statement. -á-á-á-á-á-á Sladislov Director of Silly semantics -á-á-á-á-á-áBroksi Kurth -á-á xXxBlack LegionxXx
Sladislov Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx 54	Posted - 2015.01.16 10:17:22 - [67] - Quote Aiyshimin wrote: Sladislov wrote: [offensive analogy] let me rephrase this, Just because less people are doing a certain thing does not mean you can just remove something. And just because less people are doing a certain thing does not mean it should be preserved, if the thing itself is being a total dickhead. Your analogy is both batshit ******** and painfully accurate at the same time btw, too bad you're way too ignorant to figure it out. Yes instead of providing a good argument just shout ignorance and the discussion is won. " Just because less people are doing a certain thing does not mean you can just remove something." Does not mean "And just because less people are doing a certain thing does not mean it should be preserved" 3/10 please work on your reading comprehension -á-á-á-á-á-á Sladislov Director of Silly semantics -á-á-á-á-á-áBroksi Kurth -á-á xXxBlack LegionxXx
Aiyshimin Shiva Furnace 334	Posted - 2015.01.16 10:40:35 - [68] - Quote Sladislov wrote: Yes instead of providing a good argument just shout ignorance and the discussion is won. " Just because less people are doing a certain thing does not mean you can just remove something." Does not mean "And just because less people are doing a certain thing does not mean it should be preserved" 3/10 please work on your reading comprehension Good arguments stopped before your ignorant reply. Making hisec safaries more difficult (no, this change does not prevent it, only means that awoxers need to put in effort and time) concerns a minority group of hisec players, for the benefit of majority of players in hisec and potential subscribers. Since it's in CCP's interests to cater to the needs of the majority in order to keep their business, it's rational and reasonable decision for them. Hisec awoxing just wasn't good for the game, and that's the long and short if it.
Sladislov Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx 54	Posted - 2015.01.16 10:52:55 - [69] - Quote Aiyshimin wrote: Sladislov wrote: Yes instead of providing a good argument just shout ignorance and the discussion is won. " Just because less people are doing a certain thing does not mean you can just remove something." Does not mean "And just because less people are doing a certain thing does not mean it should be preserved" 3/10 please work on your reading comprehension Good arguments stopped before your ignorant reply. Making hisec safaries more difficult (no, this change does not prevent it, only means that awoxers need to put in effort and time) concerns a minority group of hisec players, for the benefit of majority of players in hisec and potential subscribers. Since it's in CCP's interests to cater to the needs of the majority in order to keep their business, it's rational and reasonable decision for them. Hisec awoxing just wasn't good for the game, and that's the long and short if it. "Good arguments stopped before your ignorant reply." aka "haha i didnt even try lololol" How do you mean it doesnt prevent highsec safari's, they are literally removing corp damage. Only way to kill someone in highsec after the change is wardecs or suicide ganking. Yes lets benefit the majority, increase mission payouts by 100x making all other professions irrelevant, you only need to care about the majority right? -á-á-á-á-á-á Sladislov Director of Silly semantics -á-á-á-á-á-áBroksi Kurth -á-á xXxBlack LegionxXx
Alvatore DiMarco Capricious Endeavours Ltd 3271	Posted - 2015.01.16 11:04:02 - [70] - Quote Sladislov wrote: Post after post of logically flawed, hysterical drivel Please study this and learn how you too can stop shitposting.
Aiyshimin Shiva Furnace 334	Posted - 2015.01.16 11:04:49 - [71] - Quote Sladislov wrote: "Good arguments stopped before your ignorant reply." aka "haha i didnt even try lololol" How do you mean it doesnt prevent highsec safari's, they are literally removing corp damage. Only way to kill someone in highsec after the change is wardecs or suicide ganking. Yes lets benefit the majority, increase mission payouts by 100x making all other professions irrelevant, you only need to care about the majority right? When you troll, you get trolled, deal with it. No, you infiltrate the corp just as before, play your role until you get director role, turn off intra-corp PVP block and then awox. And rob them. Increasing mission payouts 100x would not benefit the majority, it would break the game for everyone. Why do you think increasing mission payouts 100x is the same thing as making awoxing more difficult? Tell me again, are you using the fact that awoxers are a minority group as an argument defending it's existence? Does this minority aspect apply to other playstyles as well?
Velicitia XS Tech 2774	Posted - 2015.01.16 11:09:59 - [72] - Quote Caleb Seremshur wrote: Dersen Lowery wrote: Didn't Awox just get on grid with anomaly-running corpmates, light a cyno, and suddenly reds? Meaning that the whole scheme relied on people out of corp, and this change wouldn't affect it at all? If anything, it would make that tactic more effective, because the no-corp-aggression flag would give the impression of increased safety. AWOX started out in amarr militia dunking people in caldari militia because he appears as a purple and used that to his advantage, also only standings loss with caldari (which didn't matter because he was amarr). Where he went after that who knows but it was just another example of poorly thought out game mechanics. 'high sec awoxing' was years overdue for an overhaul, it was basically an exploit. learn your EVE history ... awoxing has been around far, far longer than FW. Hell, it was "history" back in '07. One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Kenrailae Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships. 327	Posted - 2015.01.16 11:22:39 - [73] - Quote Yeah.... Friendly fire should always be a thing. We're playing Eve, not WoW. The Law is a point of View
Sladislov Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx 54	Posted - 2015.01.16 11:23:00 - [74] - Quote Aiyshimin wrote: No, you infiltrate the corp just as before, play your role until you get director role, turn off intra-corp PVP block and then awox. And rob them. Tell me again, are you using the fact that awoxers are a minority group as an argument defending it's existence? Does this minority aspect apply to other playstyles as well? "No, you infiltrate the corp just as before, play your role until you get director role, turn off intra-corp PVP block and then awox. And rob them. " yes let me just waste large swathes of my time playing in this corp i dont really want to be in in order to get director maybe some time next year. This is not viable. I wasnt saying that it being a minority should make it immune to being removed, what i said was ' just because its a minority doesnt mean it can or should be removed so easily ' -á-á-á-á-á-á Sladislov Director of Silly semantics -á-á-á-á-á-áBroksi Kurth -á-á xXxBlack LegionxXx
Aiyshimin Shiva Furnace 334	Posted - 2015.01.16 11:24:52 - [75] - Quote Kenrailae wrote: Yeah.... Friendly fire should always be a thing. We're playing Eve, not WoW. You can still fire on friendlies in null, low, whs and in hisec corps that allow it. If you want to do that, don't join hisec corps that don't allow it. Simple as that.
Aiyshimin Shiva Furnace 334	Posted - 2015.01.16 11:27:10 - [76] - Quote Sladislov wrote: yes let me just waste large swathes of my time playing in this corp i dont really want to be in in order to get director maybe some time next year. This is not viable. I wasnt saying that it being a minority should make it immune to being removed, what i said was ' just because its a minority doesnt mean it can or should be removed so easily ' Why waste your time in a corp that you really don't want to be in? Do something else you like more. If a change benefits the majority and only presents a minor hindrance to a niche group, then it's a sensible balancing change. I think you agree on that.
Sladislov Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx 54	Posted - 2015.01.16 11:29:07 - [77] - Quote Aiyshimin wrote: Sladislov wrote: yes let me just waste large swathes of my time playing in this corp i dont really want to be in in order to get director maybe some time next year. This is not viable. I wasnt saying that it being a minority should make it immune to being removed, what i said was ' just because its a minority doesnt mean it can or should be removed so easily ' Why waste your time in a corp that you really don't want to be in? Do something else you like more. If a change benefits the majority and only presents a minor hindrance to a niche group, then it's a sensible balancing change. I think you agree on that. Its not a 'minor hindrance' its a complete removal of awox as it is now. I want to be in the corp to kill their ships -á-á-á-á-á-á Sladislov Director of Silly semantics -á-á-á-á-á-áBroksi Kurth -á-á xXxBlack LegionxXx
Aiyshimin Shiva Furnace 334	Posted - 2015.01.16 11:42:20 - [78] - Quote Sladislov wrote: Its not a 'minor hindrance' its a complete removal of awox as it is now. I want to be in the corp to kill their ships No, it's not a complete removal when you can still do it. Also, nothing prevents you from getting in their corp and killing their ships. You don't even have to join their corp.
Alvatore DiMarco Capricious Endeavours Ltd 3271	Posted - 2015.01.16 12:11:35 - [79] - Quote Nobody said that you will be unable to target and fire upon friendly ships when this toggle is turned off. All it does is provoke a CONCORD response. Furthermore, it's not as if every single highsec corp will turn it off. Regardless of all that, however, if you're not willing to put in the time and effort for a successful awox, you don't deserve those kills - period.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 675	Posted - 2015.01.16 12:45:00 - [80] - Quote Alvatore DiMarco wrote: Nobody said that you will be unable to target and fire upon friendly ships when this toggle is turned off. All it does is provoke a CONCORD response. Furthermore, it's not as if every single highsec corp will turn it off. Regardless of all that, however, if you're not willing to put in the time and effort for a successful awox, you don't deserve those kills - period. But I should be able to kill a corp mate risk free in a random bit of space with my neutral RR alts in case my ship is at any risk..... Even CODE man up and accept the concord hit. I never thought I'd hold them in higher regard than some people....but there we go. Wow.
Kenrailae Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships. 328	Posted - 2015.01.16 12:56:43 - [81] - Quote Aiyshimin wrote: Kenrailae wrote: Yeah.... Friendly fire should always be a thing. We're playing Eve, not WoW. You can still fire on friendlies in null, low, whs and in hisec corps that allow it. If you want to do that, don't join hisec corps that don't allow it. Simple as that. Not a thing. Simple as that. The Law is a point of View
Faren Shalni Future Corps Sleeper Social Club 124	Posted - 2015.01.16 13:04:24 - [82] - Quote Tbh I feel ccp are not going to have it so you can't even shoot you corpmates in highsec. It will likley come in the form of if you want to shoot him there will be concequences to your actions such as suspect timers or even concord...... Still I think it's a bad decision to remove AWOXing as it is part of what makes EVE eve So Much Space
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 675	Posted - 2015.01.16 13:05:20 - [83] - Quote It's already not a thing in NPC corps. CCP want to make player corps more attractive. And no, allowing awoxing in NPC corps wouldn't be a good idea, ever. I strongly suspect those falling for this would fall for a fake duel too. I doubt much of value has been lost - except the completely new ganker who is impossible to vet correctly and thus barred from decent corps - which is the very bar ccp wants to lift....
Stacy Lone University of Caille Gallente Federation 43	Posted - 2015.01.16 14:40:08 - [84] - Quote Capqu wrote: This would remove corp awoxing in nullsec as well as highsec, which I'm sure isn't the intention. It is the intention, and it's fine. Corps need more way to protect themselves from awoxing. being paranoid and not letting members in until you know their mother, dog and medical records is not fun. It especially does not retain new players. There is ways to grief in EVE, and it's fine. Want to gank someone? Go for it. There is a simple counter to it: Tank your ship and don#t transport to many goods. Shooting a corp member in space: Not fun, as one can not shield himself against it. there is no counter, except playing alone. Playing alone isn't fun, so people leave. People need to be able to play together without getting wrecked by a single awoxer 8at least in high sec - if you want to shoot corp mates in low/null, do it, but you can do that after this change anyways). Awoxing shouldn#t be removed - at least not entirely. But there are forms of awoxing that have gotten way out of control. everything needs to have a counter, and this is a counter against one form of awoxing. If people don't play together, they have little reason to stay in the game. The over-abundance of awoxing and scamming is what hinders EVE, not what brings it forward. If you enter low or null sec, you get a warning that it's dangerous. You can balance risk vs. reward. You doN#t need to go there if you doN#t want the risk, and if you go there you can use scouts and prepare yourself against getting killed. Use a covops or ceptor to stay out of trouble, for example. But getting in a corp to play together with someone else shoud not pose an immediate risk to you. It just drives ppl. away. I know of many ppl who really like EVE, but just want to be able to play together with others, and don't want all that paranoid crap. They all have no problem with risk and wouldn#t mind getting blown up in low or null. But if you can#t even get into a high sec corp to get to know others and find ppl to play with without alway thinking about how you could loose your ship to the corpmate that nearby any moment, then it's not fun anymore, it just drags down. I don#t say that AWOXing should be impossible. If you give someone access to your corp wallet and he empties it: Your fault. But basic player interaction inside a corp should be possible without any immediate danger. Currently, it is safer to stay in an NPC corp then tpo go into a player corp. That discourages teamplay. Discouraging teamplay has never been healthy for an MMO, ever.
Hairpins Blueprint CBC Interstellar Fidelas Constans 124	Posted - 2015.01.16 14:41:55 - [85] - Quote Capqu wrote: This was announced on stream. The option to disable friendly fire for your corp. This would remove corp awoxing in nullsec as well as highsec, which I'm sure isn't the intention. i mean like how? in null sec you just shoot and thats it ... there is no concord o_O?
Hairpins Blueprint CBC Interstellar Fidelas Constans 124	Posted - 2015.01.16 14:43:30 - [86] - Quote it's good thing for hi sec, corps will be much more open for people
Sladislov Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx 58	Posted - 2015.01.16 14:53:04 - [87] - Quote Stacy Lone wrote: It is the intention, and it's fine. Corps need more way to protect themselves from awoxing. being paranoid and not letting members in until you know their mother, dog and medical records is not fun. It especially does not retain new players. There is ways to grief in EVE, and it's fine. Want to gank someone? Go for it. There is a simple counter to it: Tank your ship and don#t transport to many goods. Shooting a corp member in space: Not fun, as one can not shield himself against it. there is no counter, except playing alone. Playing alone isn't fun, so people leave. People need to be able to play together without getting wrecked by a single awoxer 8at least in high sec - if you want to shoot corp mates in low/null, do it, but you can do that after this change anyways). Awoxing shouldn#t be removed - at least not entirely. But there are forms of awoxing that have gotten way out of control. everything needs to have a counter, and this is a counter against one form of awoxing. If people don't play together, they have little reason to stay in the game. The over-abundance of awoxing and scamming is what hinders EVE, not what brings it forward. If you enter low or null sec, you get a warning that it's dangerous. You can balance risk vs. reward. You doN#t need to go there if you doN#t want the risk, and if you go there you can use scouts and prepare yourself against getting killed. Use a covops or ceptor to stay out of trouble, for example. But getting in a corp to play together with someone else shoud not pose an immediate risk to you. It just drives ppl. away. I know of many ppl who really like EVE, but just want to be able to play together with others, and don't want all that paranoid crap. They all have no problem with risk and wouldn#t mind getting blown up in low or null. But if you can#t even get into a high sec corp to get to know others and find ppl to play with without alway thinking about how you could loose your ship to the corpmate that nearby any moment, then it's not fun anymore, it just drags down. I don#t say that AWOXing should be impossible. If you give someone access to your corp wallet and he empties it: Your fault. But basic player interaction inside a corp should be possible without any immediate danger. Currently, it is safer to stay in an NPC corp then tpo go into a player corp. That discourages teamplay. Discouraging teamplay has never been healthy for an MMO, ever. How do you mean? All you need to do to keep out an awoxer is just check his killboard and/or ask for his api, if he has suspicious activity then you just dont let him in. Only stupid people get awoxed. There are a myriad of ways to stop awoxing, and with the introduction of the 'expel' option all you need to do once you know someone will awox or already awoxed and is in your corp is to just hit a button and wait a day. -á-á-á-á-á-á Sladislov Director of Silly semantics -á-á-á-á-á-áBroksi Kurth -á-á xXxBlack LegionxXx
Kenrailae Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships. 328	Posted - 2015.01.16 14:57:35 - [88] - Quote Lol. The counter to awoxing is to impose artificial restraints on the game is it? ha ha. Not kill the awoxer back? wow.... The Law is a point of View
Sladislov Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx 58	Posted - 2015.01.16 15:02:33 - [89] - Quote Kenrailae wrote: Lol. The counter to awoxing is to impose artificial restraints on the game is it? ha ha. Not kill the awoxer back? wow.... As if any of these highsec pubs have ever pvp'd before -á-á-á-á-á-á Sladislov Director of Silly semantics -á-á-á-á-á-áBroksi Kurth -á-á xXxBlack LegionxXx
Kenrailae Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships. 328	Posted - 2015.01.16 15:05:15 - [90] - Quote Sladislov wrote: Kenrailae wrote: Lol. The counter to awoxing is to impose artificial restraints on the game is it? ha ha. Not kill the awoxer back? wow.... As if any of these highsec pubs have ever pvp'd before Good time to learn. The Law is a point of View
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 676	Posted - 2015.01.16 15:09:52 - [91] - Quote Kenrailae wrote: Sladislov wrote: Kenrailae wrote: Lol. The counter to awoxing is to impose artificial restraints on the game is it? ha ha. Not kill the awoxer back? wow.... As if any of these highsec pubs have ever pvp'd before Good time to learn. Yes, let me try and kill someone behind a concord protected invincible logi wall which would take two dozen T3s to break. More to the point, there is no API trail on a a fresh toon - are they just banned from joining corps now? Those letting in people with "killboards a mile long" will certainly fall for other tactics so I honestly see no problem here. speaking of, I understood alt recycling was only bannable to avoid a SS issue - NOT to hide the toon history. I may be wrong, I've never done it.
Daichi Yamato Xero Security and Technologies 2180	Posted - 2015.01.16 15:12:35 - [92] - Quote Caleb Seremshur wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: If thats what its really about, catering to the masses of carebears, then EVE has pulled/is going to pull an 'ultima online'. If i ever believe thats whats happening, i will be QQing. But you still havent said why YOU are in favour of removing it. You still havent answered my question. And I'm not going to, because I've answered this same question dozens of times and running over old ground makes me want to stick my **** in a blender. Thread reported for redundancy. Then it'd be appreciated if you didnt go round telling people they cant post in a thread when you are the one unwilling to bring anything to the table. k bye @afkalt already said, you dont need to make AWOXing a concordable offense to get rid of risk free RR. not to mention thats not at all why its being removed. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
Sladislov Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx 58	Posted - 2015.01.16 15:15:52 - [93] - Quote afkalt wrote: Kenrailae wrote: Sladislov wrote: Kenrailae wrote: Lol. The counter to awoxing is to impose artificial restraints on the game is it? ha ha. Not kill the awoxer back? wow.... As if any of these highsec pubs have ever pvp'd before Good time to learn. Yes, let me try and kill someone behind a concord protected invincible logi wall which would take two dozen T3s to break. More to the point, there is no API trail on a a fresh toon - are they just banned from joining corps now? Those letting in people with "killboards a mile long" will certainly fall for other tactics so I honestly see no problem here. speaking of, I understood alt recycling was only bannable to avoid a SS issue - NOT to hide the toon history. I may be wrong, I've never done it. Fresh toons aren't that easy to awox on because you usually on train them up a few weeks, I also 100% agree that neutral RR while you're corp killing should be given a suspect flag or at least be able to be shot by the corp, makes things a lot fairer -á-á-á-á-á-á Sladislov Director of Silly semantics -á-á-á-á-á-áBroksi Kurth -á-á xXxBlack LegionxXx
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 676	Posted - 2015.01.16 15:18:43 - [94] - Quote You can train up a dangerous stratios pilot in about a fortnight/three weeks (cant remember exactly), and thats massive overkill. @Daichi Yamato I'm aware of that, but currently the notion of fighting back is laughable. Plus it would be a nightmare logistically for non awoxing to start inheriting flags all over the place in the event you RR someone who accidentally shot a corpmate/webbed a buddy into warp. I still maintain nothing of value was lost - but something of value (newbs being ok to enter corps) was gained. Idiots will still die, people will still find interesting ways to kill people. It's being removed because a pretty small, niche plyer group were making GOOD player corp access all but impossible for new starts. We dont want new starts staying in NPC corps and we dont want new starts going to crappy corps. <13 days for the minimums for a full neut stratios with geckos. Plenty to trainwreck unsuspecting stuff in highsec.
Daichi Yamato Xero Security and Technologies 2180	Posted - 2015.01.16 15:26:04 - [95] - Quote - Safety settings - i dont think AWOXing is not valuable. Adds responsibility and consequences to actions. - i think its going to be even harder to find a good corp. Theres going to be a flood of corps that just want players to pay corp tax and a flood of NPC corp players who will want the cheaper tax. Get wardecced? swap corp. Theres going to be thousands, and its not like they are going to reject you or even look at your app. Good corps get obscured after this change. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 676	Posted - 2015.01.16 15:35:17 - [96] - Quote We'll have to agree to disagree - tax evasion is best served as a one man corp thing anyway. I still disagree with consequences and responsibility - a clean alt can be lethal in a little over a fortnight. How can you see that coming? Why should someone trying to give a home to a new start be nailed to the wall for it? It's stupid. The only sensible option for risk mitigation is to NOT allow them in, ever. It's a straight up shutout to new guys. Note that prolific, same toon gankers are of course easy to spot but that fact it is literally impossible to catch a fresh rolled one....where's the reward to that risk? There are many ways dumb players will still get killed - duels, baited into fullspawned mission with tackle at 0, offering reps that suddenly stop as the room is triggered...loads of ways to get people killed. Just needs a little more creativity and allows attentive players a fighting chance at stopping it instead of a sucker punch they could literally never have seen coming.
Sladislov Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx 58	Posted - 2015.01.16 15:45:11 - [97] - Quote Training up tons of one-month alts and then discarding them is a bannable offense. -á-á-á-á-á-á Sladislov Director of Silly semantics -á-á-á-á-á-áBroksi Kurth -á-á xXxBlack LegionxXx
Daichi Yamato Xero Security and Technologies 2184	Posted - 2015.01.16 15:56:16 - [98] - Quote To turn one of CCP's points back on itself, Why are people accepting new players if the risks arent worth the rewards? They arent being shut out. Quote: We'll have to agree to disagree EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 676	Posted - 2015.01.16 16:10:29 - [99] - Quote Sladislov wrote: Training up tons of one-month alts and then discarding them is a bannable offense. It is to avoid security status problems I do not know if that extends to awoxing - as I have never tried (recycling).
Soldarius Kosher Nostra The 99 Percent 1031	Posted - 2015.01.16 16:19:18 - [100] - Quote Mario Putzo wrote: Livonian wrote: ...words... Step your game up son. lol, do you have any idea to whom you are talking? Livonian's game is so far above yours that you have to take a space elevator into orbit to even catch a glimpse of him. I am sad to see awoxing go. It has been an integral part of the Eve-O universe for so long its hard to imagine the game without it. But I understand why CCP is making this decision. Clearly they want to increase new player retention. And getting your **** awoxed on day 12 doesn't typically help with that. http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Kenrailae Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships. 328	Posted - 2015.01.16 16:19:41 - [101] - Quote afkalt wrote: Yes, let me try and kill someone behind a concord protected invincible logi wall which would take two dozen T3s to break. More to the point, there is no API trail on a a fresh toon - are they just banned from joining corps now? Those letting in people with "killboards a mile long" will certainly fall for other tactics so I honestly see no problem here. speaking of, I understood alt recycling was only bannable to avoid a SS issue - NOT to hide the toon history. I may be wrong, I've never done it. Oh My, I do believe we have a winner. FINALLY, one of you have actually listed problems: neutral RR IS a problem. Using Duel's to bait, IS a problem. THOSE are things that need to be fixed, especially when this crap goes on in or next too Noob systems. THIS stuff is a problem. Awoxing and ganking are NOT. No, no API trail on a fresh character is NOT a problem. Toon cycling IS a problem. Again, THIS is something that needs fixed, not the risk of letting new people into your corp. The Law is a point of View
Soldarius Kosher Nostra The 99 Percent 1031	Posted - 2015.01.16 16:23:10 - [102] - Quote I have no problem with duel baiting. You get a nice pop-up that asks "Do you want to do this?" click yes or no. I was in a DST in the Amarr gate once and got asked by some random. Clearly, no. If you actually want to tank-test or what have you, 1v1s are available through this method. Neut RR logi without consequences is ******** imo. They should get some sort of a flag so that the enemy of the person being repped can shoot them. Suspect flag sounds about right. Consequences need to be had. http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Kenrailae Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships. 329	Posted - 2015.01.16 16:27:37 - [103] - Quote Soldarius wrote: I have no problem with duel baiting. You get a nice pop-up that asks "Do you want to do this?" click yes or no. I was in a DST in the Amarr gate once and got asked by some random. Clearly, no. If you actually want to tank-test or what have you, 1v1s are available through this method. Neut RR logi without consequences is ******** imo. They should get some sort of a flag so that the enemy of the person being repped can shoot them. Suspect flag sounds about right. Consequences need to be had. Duel bait in Hek, Rens, Jita, Amarr, etc all you want. A least there peeps tend to have a couple days behind them and are old enough to start learning the hard way. It's despicable to do so in Noob systems. I've sat there and watched it be done on my high sec alts. I think that is the only time I've reported anyone. The Law is a point of View
Ghaustyl Kathix Rising Thunder 48	Posted - 2015.01.16 16:27:56 - [104] - Quote Make the option off by default (allowing in-PvP by default), so people who don't think or pay attention and just assume they're safe can still be punished for not paying attention to tools they're given. Soldarius wrote: Neut RR logi without consequences is ******** imo. They should get some sort of a flag so that the enemy of the person being repped can shoot them. Suspect flag sounds about right. Consequences need to be had. That's already implemented. Currently, if you repair someone with a suspect timer or a limited engagement timer, then you become suspect. Unfortunately, if someone aggresses that neutral logi (if it's on station, anyway), then the logi docks up and undocks in a combat ship and kills the person who aggressed him.
Sladislov Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx 58	Posted - 2015.01.16 16:28:12 - [105] - Quote Besides, no real awoxer goes around looking for new players to blow them up. They're only in it for the shiny kills. -á-á-á-á-á-á Sladislov Director of Silly semantics -á-á-á-á-á-áBroksi Kurth -á-á xXxBlack LegionxXx
Ghaustyl Kathix Rising Thunder 48	Posted - 2015.01.16 16:31:27 - [106] - Quote Sladislov wrote: Besides, no real awoxer goes around looking for new players to blow them up. They're only in it for the shiny kills. There's a whole article that showcased people who did it specifically to kill new players and not only shiny kills. http://www.themittani.com/features/eve-scams-schemes-10-hour-hero
Sladislov Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx 58	Posted - 2015.01.16 16:36:37 - [107] - Quote Ghaustyl Kathix wrote: Sladislov wrote: Besides, no real awoxer goes around looking for new players to blow them up. They're only in it for the shiny kills. There's a whole article that showcased people who did it specifically to kill new players and not only shiny kills. http://www.themittani.com/features/eve-scams-schemes-10-hour-hero "There are people in this game who are not playing for monetary gain. TheyGÇÖre not playing for killmails. TheyGÇÖre here to blow you up because (a) itGÇÖs funny and (b) **** you." edit im bad ye this was 5 years ago, im not sure if jihadsquad is still infiltrating corps to do this -á-á-á-á-á-á Sladislov Director of Silly semantics -á-á-á-á-á-áBroksi Kurth -á-á xXxBlack LegionxXx
Kenrailae Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships. 330	Posted - 2015.01.16 16:39:03 - [108] - Quote Ghaustyl Kathix wrote: Sladislov wrote: Besides, no real awoxer goes around looking for new players to blow them up. They're only in it for the shiny kills. There's a whole article that showcased people who did it specifically to kill new players and not only shiny kills. http://www.themittani.com/features/eve-scams-schemes-10-hour-hero "There are people in this game who are not playing for monetary gain. TheyGÇÖre not playing for killmails. TheyGÇÖre here to blow you up because (a) itGÇÖs funny and (b) **** you." ha. that article is not about people who do it specifically to kill new players. That article is about killing players for fun and/or profit. That just happens to be easier on newer players, as a general rule, but certainly not always. EDIT: more specifically suicide ganking, like the guy above me said. The Law is a point of View
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 676	Posted - 2015.01.16 16:43:28 - [109] - Quote Ghaustyl Kathix wrote: Make the option off by default (allowing in-PvP by default), so people who don't think or pay attention and just assume they're safe can still be punished for not paying attention to tools they're given. Soldarius wrote: Neut RR logi without consequences is ******** imo. They should get some sort of a flag so that the enemy of the person being repped can shoot them. Suspect flag sounds about right. Consequences need to be had. That's already implemented. Currently, if you repair someone with a suspect timer or a limited engagement timer, then you become suspect. Unfortunately, if someone aggresses that neutral logi (if it's on station, anyway), then the logi docks up and undocks in a combat ship and kills the person who aggressed him. Doesn't work for awoxxing. No flags happen. RR sits behind concord.
Daichi Yamato Xero Security and Technologies 2184	Posted - 2015.01.16 16:43:55 - [110] - Quote Ghaustyl Kathix wrote: Sladislov wrote: Besides, no real awoxer goes around looking for new players to blow them up. They're only in it for the shiny kills. There's a whole article that showcased people who did it specifically to kill new players and not only shiny kills. http://www.themittani.com/features/eve-scams-schemes-10-hour-hero "There are people in this game who are not playing for monetary gain. TheyGÇÖre not playing for killmails. TheyGÇÖre here to blow you up because (a) itGÇÖs funny and (b) **** you." new players? where? EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 464	Posted - 2015.01.16 16:51:51 - [111] - Quote Ghaustyl Kathix wrote: Sladislov wrote: Besides, no real awoxer goes around looking for new players to blow them up. They're only in it for the shiny kills. There's a whole article that showcased people who did it specifically to kill new players and not only shiny kills. http://www.themittani.com/features/eve-scams-schemes-10-hour-hero "There are people in this game who are not playing for monetary gain. TheyGÇÖre not playing for killmails. TheyGÇÖre here to blow you up because (a) itGÇÖs funny and (b) **** you." New players are not the target of awoxing. I collected all the highsec awoxing kills as I desribed in the GD thread and you can see the average age of an awox victim is over three years in the game. Only a handful of new players get caught up in awoxes which makes sense as you are after juicier targets if you go to the trouble of training a spy and infiltrating a corp. This change only makes it safer for these established players with assets, and does nothing for new players that don't even know what awoxing is. Hopefully it makes these established corps more willing to take on new players, but it will also increase the number of failcorps and scam corps trying to attract new players for tax farming. It's not clear to me that this change helps new players at all. Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10 is a good idea.
Kane Ceres University of Caille Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.01.16 18:17:23 - [112] - Quote Corps already have more than enough tools to avoid being awoxed 99% of the time. If you accept someone with a mile long corp history - you deserve to be awoxed. If you accept someone with a blank app and no API check - you deserve to be awoxed. If you accept someone with lots of blue on blue on their killboard - YOU DESERVE TO BE AWOXED. With the kick at downtime feature the damage an awoxer can do is harshly limited. All this does is protect lazy people who are not willing to vet their applicants.
Mike Azariah The Scope Gallente Federation 2324	Posted - 2015.01.16 19:21:07 - [113] - Quote It was a good fix to a dumb rule. The switch to turn it on/off removes the only hesitation I had because of the effect a blanket rules would have on corp free-for-alls and RvB. Nothing I have read, here, has made me think otherwise but I will follow this thread looking for diamonds in the mud. As to a tax to have it on? No. I would be willing to consider having a tax or fee everytime you want to CHANGE the settingt excluding the first time when it is set. m Mike Azariah-á CSM8 and now CSM9
Livonian Kaesong Kosmonauts 17	Posted - 2015.01.16 19:35:33 - [114] - Quote Mike Azariah wrote: It was a good fix to a dumb rule. The switch to turn it on/off removes the only hesitation I had because of the effect a blanket rules would have on corp free-for-alls and RvB. Nothing I have read, here, has made me think otherwise but I will follow this thread looking for diamonds in the mud. As to a tax to have it on? No. I would be willing to consider having a tax or fee everytime you want to CHANGE the settingt excluding the first time when it is set. m RIP decisions with consequence.
Steppa Musana Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 44	Posted - 2015.01.16 19:46:11 - [115] - Quote Last time I checked, the most famous awox in a while was against JT Clone Ares in stealing his alliance. In fact this is always the case. Pick any time period, the top stories on awoxing are never blowing up a corp member in highsec. This doesnt change anything except forcing pusses to take some risk while shooting corp member ships. But like eveyr other group of sissies, they whine to CCP instead of dealing with the change. I know guys, having some ACTUAL risk while shooting someone, it sounds all scary and stuff. Deal with it. Why does it help new players? Because it makes it far far easier for them to be accepted into a corp.
Alvatore DiMarco Capricious Endeavours Ltd 3274	Posted - 2015.01.16 21:25:55 - [116] - Quote Kane Ceres wrote: Corps already have more than enough tools to avoid being awoxed 99% of the time. If you accept someone with a mile long corp history - you deserve to be awoxed. If you accept someone with a blank app and no API check - you deserve to be awoxed. If you accept someone with lots of blue on blue on their killboard - YOU DESERVE TO BE AWOXED. With the kick at downtime feature the damage an awoxer can do is harshly limited. All this does is protect lazy people who are not willing to vet their applicants. If you accept a character with no employment history beyond their initial NPC corp and nothing suspicious on their API, do you deserve to be awoxed?
Kenrailae Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships. 330	Posted - 2015.01.16 21:51:19 - [117] - Quote Alvatore DiMarco wrote: If you accept a character with no employment history beyond their initial NPC corp and nothing suspicious on their API, do you deserve to be awoxed? If you do even basic observation, it's usually not too hard to spot the real noobs from the pretenders. The Law is a point of View
Swiftstrike1 Swiftstrike Incorporated 858	Posted - 2015.01.16 21:59:37 - [118] - Quote Why is there so much concern about the removal of friendly fire? You will still be able to shoot anybody you like in hisec, but you will have to accept the consequences of breaking the law (i.e. Concord). You will still be able to infiltrate corps and use your roles to empty their corporate wallets and hangars You will still be able to con people into "exploring this wormhole" You can still offer to jump their ships to the other side of hisec in your JF/carrier if they bring them to lowsec first In my honest opinion, corp friendly fire has been a bug in the code for nearly 12 years and needs to be removed ASAP. Everyone else in EVE has to work hard to achieve their goals so why should hisec awoxing be such an easy "career"? Targeting, Sensors and ECM Overhaul
Kane Ceres University of Caille Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.01.16 22:01:56 - [119] - Quote Alvatore DiMarco wrote: Kane Ceres wrote: Corps already have more than enough tools to avoid being awoxed 99% of the time. If you accept someone with a mile long corp history - you deserve to be awoxed. If you accept someone with a blank app and no API check - you deserve to be awoxed. If you accept someone with lots of blue on blue on their killboard - YOU DESERVE TO BE AWOXED. With the kick at downtime feature the damage an awoxer can do is harshly limited. All this does is protect lazy people who are not willing to vet their applicants. If you accept a character with no employment history beyond their initial NPC corp and nothing suspicious on their API, do you deserve to be awoxed? This only works once and there is almost always something that you can use to tell its an alt. It's just a matter of if people are actually going to put in the effort to protect their corpmates. The other problem I have with this change and the people saying its a good thing are people that have never tried both sides. I have been on both sides. I have been awoxed and have awoxed and the community for it is great and very supportive. I haven't done it since the last time I played but I don't understand how people with no idea about the playstyle. CCP has given people all the tools they need and now people need to get off their ass and protect their corps from awoxing or just pay some tax so that since they have no risk anymore they have less reward.
Livonian Kaesong Kosmonauts 18	Posted - 2015.01.16 22:25:09 - [120] - Quote Swiftstrike1 wrote: Why is there so much concern about the removal of friendly fire? You will still be able to shoot anybody you like in hisec, but you will have to accept the consequences of breaking the law (i.e. Concord). You will still be able to infiltrate corps and use your roles to empty their corporate wallets and hangars You will still be able to con people into "exploring this wormhole" You can still offer to jump their ships to the other side of hisec in your JF/carrier if they bring them to lowsec first In my honest opinion, corp friendly fire has been a bug in the code for nearly 12 years and needs to be removed ASAP. Everyone else in EVE has to work hard to achieve their goals so why should hisec awoxing be such an easy "career"? Better remove J-space poses then too since they are a bug. Oh wait emergent gameplay. You sure sound like someone who has never highsec awoxed before. At the end game it requires multiple accounts with heavy training into logistics and pvp, as well as the knowledge of how to fly ships in pvp and find others in space. In my case I spent years in nullsec "Getting Good" along with ~600m in ships to set up my dude. If you want to talk about easy careers why don't we look at highsec incursions? 80m-200m/hr on the regular, extremely small risk for competent players and you can do it while watching netflix.
Maqari Kinraysuwa Oruze Cruise 15	Posted - 2015.01.16 22:37:43 - [121] - Quote Make intra-corp PvP trigger a LE or Suspect timer. That way the 'invincible' untanked logi can now be shot at and all you dumb ***** highsec pub shitlords can go back to mining or grinding l4s or whatever you do, instead of trying to ** on an actual interesting form of emergent content.
Capqu Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx 975	Posted - 2015.01.16 22:43:29 - [122] - Quote Mike Azariah wrote: It was a good fix to a dumb rule. The switch to turn it on/off removes the only hesitation I had because of the effect a blanket rules would have on corp free-for-alls and RvB. Nothing I have read, here, has made me think otherwise but I will follow this thread looking for diamonds in the mud. As to a tax to have it on? No. I would be willing to consider having a tax or fee everytime you want to CHANGE the settingt excluding the first time when it is set. m welp i thought i'd be voting for you but jesus christ its not a goddamn option as it was presented; its literally check this box or ur dumb a tax or something would make it an option, risk:reward https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPntjTPWgKE
Lugh Crow-Slave 502	Posted - 2015.01.16 22:45:26 - [123] - Quote Sladislov wrote: Besides, no real awoxer goes around looking for new players to blow them up. They're only in it for the shiny kills. Just had two awoxers get into a corp in my alliance a killed a group of ventures and barges. people are in it for the kills regardless of how shiny they are. however all parties involved from those who were ganked to the recruiter learned from the experience and there entire corp as well as out of corp members had fun for a few hours trying to hunt them down. it basically became an alliance wide event and was good fun to be had like an in game event but created dynamically by players. this system as i have stated before not only removes game play but only puts new players joining corps at risk Fuel block colors
Maria Dragoon EVE University Ivy League 41	Posted - 2015.01.16 23:43:00 - [124] - Quote I don't think you quite understand how the turn off awox option. While the option is only in the talks at the moment. You have to ask yourself. What is this option really? The reality of it, is that many people here fail to understand what the option is. Does this option suddenly disallows players to be unable to shoot their corp members? I don't think it works that way, instead what will end up happening, (most likely) is that now awoxing will be punished the same way, people awox in NPC corps, you destroyed their ship in high sec, well concord destroy's your ship in high sec. This feature most likely came around with awoxers would play "Going AFK" games in a fully fitted T3 ship that can alpha anything off the field in one shot, then runs and hides some where so that he can't be found. Instead what this means is that if he wishes to do it again, he will have to dock his pod, which means he will have to take a risk of being booted from the corp everytime he docks up and refits. Now, don't get me wrong, I didn't say I support this idea, my opinions are my own. But this needless panic thread lacks any reasonable arguments, suggestions, and information. Basically all the Original poster is doing is creating a thread to induce panic in the eve community, and fails to provide any real facts at all. I'm sorry but I for one don't support such a thread like this existing. I suggest it be locked, and murdered.
Sladislov Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx 58	Posted - 2015.01.16 23:50:53 - [125] - Quote Maria Dragoon wrote: I don't think you quite understand how the turn off awox option. While the option is only in the talks at the moment. You have to ask yourself. What is this option really? The reality of it, is that many people here fail to understand what the option is. Does this option suddenly disallows players to be unable to shoot their corp members? I don't think it works that way, instead what will end up happening, (most likely) is that now awoxing will be punished the same way, people awox in NPC corps, you destroyed their ship in high sec, well concord destroy's your ship in high sec. This feature most likely came around with awoxers would play "Going AFK" games in a fully fitted T3 ship that can alpha anything off the field in one shot, then runs and hides some where so that he can't be found. Instead what this means is that if he wishes to do it again, he will have to dock his pod, which means he will have to take a risk of being booted from the corp everytime he docks up and refits. Now, don't get me wrong, I didn't say I support this idea, my opinions are my own. But this needless panic thread lacks any reasonable arguments, suggestions, and information. Basically all the Original poster is doing is creating a thread to induce panic in the eve community, and fails to provide any real facts at all. I'm sorry but I for one don't support such a thread like this existing. I suggest it be locked, and murdered. i suggest u stop posting the form doesnt matter that much when the underlying principle remains the same -á-á-á-á-á-á Sladislov Director of Silly semantics -á-á-á-á-á-áBroksi Kurth -á-á xXxBlack LegionxXx
Kane Ceres University of Caille Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.01.17 00:09:25 - [126] - Quote Maqari Kinraysuwa wrote: Make intra-corp PvP trigger a LE or Suspect timer. That way the 'invincible' untanked logi can now be shot at and all you dumb ***** highsec pub shitlords can go back to mining or grinding l4s or whatever you do, instead of trying to ** on an actual interesting form of emergent content. I would totally get behind this idea if I didn't think awoxing has already been nerfed to hell.
Daichi Yamato Xero Security and Technologies 2185	Posted - 2015.01.17 00:11:42 - [127] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Sladislov wrote: Besides, no real awoxer goes around looking for new players to blow them up. They're only in it for the shiny kills. Just had two awoxers get into a corp in my alliance a killed a group of ventures and barges. people are in it for the kills regardless of how shiny they are. however all parties involved from those who were ganked to the recruiter learned from the experience and there entire corp as well as out of corp members had fun for a few hours trying to hunt them down. it basically became an alliance wide event and was good fun to be had like an in game event but created dynamically by players. this system as i have stated before not only removes game play but only puts new players joining corps at risk Me and some friends have had the exact same experience. It was the most fun these players had had in the game upto that point, brought us all closer together and inspired them onto more PvP antics that they werent interested in before. The distressing experience ccp describe is likely from players who would be distressed by wardecs and suicide ganks as well. Both of these are also unintuitive game mechanics that noobs dont understand. When will they be axed? Edit- sorry I mean togglable. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
TigerXtrm Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance 995	Posted - 2015.01.17 00:29:53 - [128] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Sladislov wrote: Besides, no real awoxer goes around looking for new players to blow them up. They're only in it for the shiny kills. Just had two awoxers get into a corp in my alliance a killed a group of ventures and barges. people are in it for the kills regardless of how shiny they are. however all parties involved from those who were ganked to the recruiter learned from the experience and there entire corp as well as out of corp members had fun for a few hours trying to hunt them down. it basically became an alliance wide event and was good fun to be had like an in game event but created dynamically by players. this system as i have stated before not only removes game play but only puts new players joining corps at risk Me and some friends have had the exact same experience. It was the most fun these players had had in the game upto that point, brought us all closer together and inspired them onto more PvP antics that they werent interested in before. The distressing experience ccp describe is likely from players who would be distressed by wardecs and suicide ganks as well. Both of these are also unintuitive game mechanics that noobs dont understand. When will they be axed? Edit- sorry I mean togglable. It's 'distressing' because from a game developer standpoint, their players (and particularly new players) get confused. Everywhere new players are encouraged to join player corporations. But then when they join a noob friendly corp they are targeted by much older players who seem to find joy in ruining the new player's day for no particular reason other than 'tears'. In the same vein, a corporation should be a place where members can work together and feel 'safe'. Having to distrust your own corpmates may be 'exactly what EVE is about' for some, but it's lethal to EVE as a game. Especially new players shouldn't be thrown into a shark tank with people who would rip them to shreds for funzies and continue to laugh at them as they quit the game forever. People quiting the game over this crap is in nobody's best interest. Want to continue Awoxing people? Join a low-sec or null-sec corp and Awox to your hearts content. But as usual, this isn't about the mechanic. It's about people losing access to a barrel full of fish which they can no longer shoot. Fish that would grow up to be sharks if you didn't eat them the second they show up. My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
epicurus ataraxia Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude 1478	Posted - 2015.01.17 00:34:54 - [129] - Quote There is naturally disappointment when one loses the ability to partake in a gamestyle one has become capable or even expert in, and there are no doubt those who are quite capable and take pride in their achievements. "Be the villian" was the marketing drive a few years ago, the marketeers naturally felt that the "gritty" side of EvE would appeal to a certain demographic, and It was in truth quite successful. However, for every player who behaves in a resposible, thoughtful manner, there are ten who are unable to exibit self restraint. This has been pointed out for a while, that the excesses of the less restrained wardeccers, Gankers, and awoxers, would create issues, and ruin it for the more thoughtful players who plan and enjoy these gamestyles. We appear to have reached the point where the bottom line of the company is being harmed. And little sympathy is being given to those who persue these gamestyles, as the excesses for many have become intolerable. If one wishes to retain these gamestyles, one needs to encourage restraint within your community. The alternative is most likely the removal of the gamestyles you love, and that will make EVE poorer for it. Please note I am not advocating the removal of any of these gamestyles. They do have a place In EvE But Whether they remain or not is up to you. There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Sladislov Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx 58	Posted - 2015.01.17 00:41:53 - [130] - Quote TigerXtrm wrote: [words] All these posts about the new guys being shot by bitter veterans and comparisons to fish and barrels, go to zkill right now and show me 10 newbros being awoxed. You'll hardly find any, even if you go back to last year. Simply put no one really wants to blow up new guys in highsec, they dont have blingy ships, they havent played it long enough to understand whats going on and its simply not worth the time. A few pages back a guy compiled a list of all awoxes that happened in a month or so and about 80% of all the awoxes were people older than a year. To repeat myself, all this option will do is give stupid people immunity from actually having to look over their recruits, a simple api check is more than enough to pick out any bad apples (b-b-but sladislov what about new characters, well unless you play it 100% legit and dont transfer any isk or trade its fairly easy to see its an alt). A year ago when i wanted to join a corp no one even asked for api, nowadays most corps have api checks in place and usually thorough background checks (just opening the damn character sheet and looking at the corp history). I am anally frustrated at this not because the newbros are safe but because the stupid people who just want a ton of people in their highsec taxfarming corp can now do this without any effort. Any 'good' highsec corp will also kind of lose its status as now almost every corp is safe. -á-á-á-á-á-á Sladislov Director of Silly semantics -á-á-á-á-á-áBroksi Kurth -á-á xXxBlack LegionxXx
Kane Ceres University of Caille Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.01.17 00:58:43 - [131] - Quote Hi sec does not need to be safer. If you go through with this and effectively stop any high sec awoxing then you had better fix war decs so that people can actually be engaged and not just turn high sec into a pve only zone.
Maria Dragoon EVE University Ivy League 41	Posted - 2015.01.17 01:08:12 - [132] - Quote Sladislov wrote: Maria Dragoon wrote: I don't think you quite understand how the turn off awox option. While the option is only in the talks at the moment. You have to ask yourself. What is this option really? The reality of it, is that many people here fail to understand what the option is. Does this option suddenly disallows players to be unable to shoot their corp members? I don't think it works that way, instead what will end up happening, (most likely) is that now awoxing will be punished the same way, people awox in NPC corps, you destroyed their ship in high sec, well concord destroy's your ship in high sec. This feature most likely came around with awoxers would play "Going AFK" games in a fully fitted T3 ship that can alpha anything off the field in one shot, then runs and hides some where so that he can't be found. Instead what this means is that if he wishes to do it again, he will have to dock his pod, which means he will have to take a risk of being booted from the corp everytime he docks up and refits. Now, don't get me wrong, I didn't say I support this idea, my opinions are my own. But this needless panic thread lacks any reasonable arguments, suggestions, and information. Basically all the Original poster is doing is creating a thread to induce panic in the eve community, and fails to provide any real facts at all. I'm sorry but I for one don't support such a thread like this existing. I suggest it be locked, and murdered. i suggest u stop posting the form doesn't matter that much when the underlying principle remains the same And which underlying principle is there to prove? Hmmm? What kind of thought provoking things does this thread provide, what kind of thinking is it pushing by providing no information at all? God, and before you tell me to stop posting, at least learn to know the difference between "u" and you.
Lugh Crow-Slave 509	Posted - 2015.01.17 01:25:54 - [133] - Quote TigerXtrm wrote: It's 'distressing' because from a game developer standpoint, their players (and particularly new players) get confused. Everywhere new players are encouraged to join player corporations. But then when they join a noob friendly corp they are targeted by much older players who seem to find joy in ruining the new player's day for no particular reason other than 'tears'. Problem is they said this was being made optional by the corp meaning it doesn't prevent this from happening. all it does is make it so there is no reason not to just hit accept on every application to your corp Fuel block colors
Kenrailae Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships. 330	Posted - 2015.01.17 02:10:22 - [134] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: TigerXtrm wrote: It's 'distressing' because from a game developer standpoint, their players (and particularly new players) get confused. Everywhere new players are encouraged to join player corporations. But then when they join a noob friendly corp they are targeted by much older players who seem to find joy in ruining the new player's day for no particular reason other than 'tears'. Problem is they said this was being made optional by the corp meaning it doesn't prevent this from happening. all it does is make it so there is no reason not to just hit accept on every application to your corp Uhhh... what? Come again? I've done my fair share of ganking, and would gladly do so again if the time and desire coincided at the same point. There is no fun in killing noobs. Ganking, Awoxing, etc is much, much more fun when we can get the bitter vet tears to go along with it. The Law is a point of View
Lugh Crow-Slave 509	Posted - 2015.01.17 02:15:36 - [135] - Quote Kenrailae wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: TigerXtrm wrote: It's 'distressing' because from a game developer standpoint, their players (and particularly new players) get confused. Everywhere new players are encouraged to join player corporations. But then when they join a noob friendly corp they are targeted by much older players who seem to find joy in ruining the new player's day for no particular reason other than 'tears'. Problem is they said this was being made optional by the corp meaning it doesn't prevent this from happening. all it does is make it so there is no reason not to just hit accept on every application to your corp Uhhh... what? Come again? Corps will still be able to get new members in and gank them free of concord so this does not protect new players. it only protects corps from needing to trust anyone Fuel block colors
Kenrailae Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships. 330	Posted - 2015.01.17 02:21:40 - [136] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Kenrailae wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: TigerXtrm wrote: It's 'distressing' because from a game developer standpoint, their players (and particularly new players) get confused. Everywhere new players are encouraged to join player corporations. But then when they join a noob friendly corp they are targeted by much older players who seem to find joy in ruining the new player's day for no particular reason other than 'tears'. Problem is they said this was being made optional by the corp meaning it doesn't prevent this from happening. all it does is make it so there is no reason not to just hit accept on every application to your corp Uhhh... what? Come again? Corps will still be able to get new members in and gank them free of concord so this does not protect new players. it only protects corps from needing to trust anyone Wow... I just felt brain cells die..... The Law is a point of View
Donnachadh United Allegiance of Undesirables 91	Posted - 2015.01.17 02:34:40 - [137] - Quote Interesting to read since my last post here. After reading the oft touted meeting minutes on thing is even more clear now than before and to be honest it trumps any thing and every argument we as players could post. $$$$$ Did I mention cash money. $$$$$ You know the cold hard real life cash that CCP uses to pay for devs, artists, computers for them, servers for us and the list goes on. Any company that cannot or will not adjust to keep the majority of their paying customers will soon find themselves on the bankrupt and out of business list. If CCP thinks any in game activity be it high sec AWOXing, suicide ganking or running missions is threatening the real cash bottom line then it needs to be changed removed from the game. A question and this is hypothetical You control CCP do you keep high sec AWOXing in game and risk losing the majority of your paying customers? Or do you remove high sec AWOXing and risk losing a very small minority of your paying players? To a smart business manager the answer to this one is easy, you cater to the majority and keep them in the game. Then you take the money you have and work to find ways to give the minority something that will keep them in the game.
Arya Regnar Darwins Right Hand 654	Posted - 2015.01.17 02:35:19 - [138] - Quote Kenrailae wrote: Wow... I just felt brain cells die..... If there is a check box that disables friendly fire then yes, only new players are at risk. The brain cells dying are in your head. EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
Daichi Yamato Xero Security and Technologies 2186	Posted - 2015.01.17 02:48:49 - [139] - Quote TigerXtrm wrote: It's 'distressing' because from a game developer standpoint, their players (and particularly new players) get confused. Everywhere new players are encouraged to join player corporations. But then when they join a noob friendly corp they are targeted by much older players who seem to find joy in ruining the new player's day for no particular reason other than 'tears'. Wardecs. Suicide ganking. Both are more common, and the former is by FAR more detrimental to the new player experience and a FAR bigger reason why new players dont stick around. I have personally been the cause of tens of players, maybe more, quitting through the war dec mechanic. Every argument against AWOXing applies directly to war decs and suicide ganking. New players are confused by a lot of EVE's rules that are corner stones to hi-sec competition. At some point you will realise EVE is different. Thats why its so unintuitive to players who come from other games. You might just say, EVE isnt for everyone. TigerXtrm wrote: In the same vein, a corporation should be a place where members can work together and feel 'safe'. Having to distrust your own corpmates may be 'exactly what EVE is about' for some, but it's lethal to EVE as a game. Especially new players shouldn't be thrown into a shark tank with people who would rip them to shreds for funzies and continue to laugh at them as they quit the game forever. People quiting the game over this crap is in nobody's best interest. Corp theft. Recruitment scams. Read all of the above. The GAME is the shark tank. TigerXtrm wrote: Want to continue Awoxing people? Join a low-sec or null-sec corp and Awox to your hearts content. But as usual, this isn't about the mechanic. It's about people losing access to a barrel full of fish which they can no longer shoot. Fish that would grow up to be sharks if you didn't eat them the second they show up. No. This, for me, is about the pool of high sec corps being filled with tripe and the actual good corps out there being made even less visible to the new players looking for them. You think the NPE is bad now? just wait till every corp in the advert finder is filled with the likes of players that have been described as so 'toxic' that the vast majority of players would rather minimise npc corp chat than read their literally mind-blowing ignorance. And these corps will actively recruit new players, not because they give a crap about the new players or desire to teach them anything, but because they can farm risk free isk from them. and why not? EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
Daichi Yamato Xero Security and Technologies 2187	Posted - 2015.01.17 02:57:53 - [140] - Quote Donnachadh wrote: A question and this is hypothetical You control CCP do you keep high sec AWOXing in game and risk losing the majority of your paying customers? Or do you remove high sec AWOXing and risk losing a very small minority of your paying players? To a smart business manager the answer to this one is easy, you cater to the majority and keep them in the game. Then you take the money you have and work to find ways to give the minority something that will keep them in the game. What players will be lost if the game stays THE SAME? The same players we've always been losing for 12 years? The players that without the game grew for 10 years straight? There is no evidence to suggest that the recent rumored recession of subs has anything to do with AWOXing. More than likely it was the 'blue donut' {the opposite of AWOXing lol) that did that. While CCP may have a financial agenda behind this change, your hypothetical questions was based upon a gross misconception. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
Arya Regnar Darwins Right Hand 654	Posted - 2015.01.17 03:17:57 - [141] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: What players will be lost if the game stays THE SAME? The same players we've always been losing for 12 years? The players that without the game grew for 10 years straight? There is no evidence to suggest that the recent rumored recession of subs has anything to do with AWOXing. More than likely it was the 'blue donut' {the opposite of AWOXing lol) that did that. While CCP may have a financial agenda behind this change, your hypothetical questions was based upon a gross misconception. The only players they will lose are those that join corporations without risk and get bored, those that enjoyed awoxing activities and those that don't like their playing field narrowing down with dumbed down mechanics. So yeah it's not just like you said, it's worse than that. For CCP to keep idiots in game they need to really dumb it down and make it completely like wow. Problem is that at that point EVERYONE who is playing eve for what it is or was will be gone. EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
chaosgrimm Universal Production and Networking Services 179	Posted - 2015.01.17 03:26:49 - [142] - Quote I doubt this will change null sec. Highsec I've got mixed opinions of. Overall I think its leaning toward the positive end of the spectrum: * awoxing was providing a way to circumvent concord, the drop in sec status, etc. IMO if you want to make hisec kills, you should be able to, but also be subject to the penalties. * might encourage new players / risk adverse players to join corps and lets be honest, social interaction is a major part of the reason players stay, play, and pay.
Call Me Betty Stinky Buttes 2	Posted - 2015.01.17 04:11:33 - [143] - Quote I think there should be a option to disable friendly corp fire with a monthly concord protection fee. Something like 50 or 100m a month. But this option should not be enabled by default. Eve should not be a safe place. I am a HS awoxer. I blindly apply to corps and 90% of the time I get rejected. Which is a good thing. But there are corps that will accept anyone. They will not even do the simplest of checks. Some don't realize their are people like me but most are just bears with the mindset that PvP is bad and think most people don't do it. But once I get in their normally quickly learn. If you can spend a few seconds to check out someone before letting someone into your corp then you can weed out most of the awoxers. Unless it is a new awoxer then it is very simple to figure out if someone is one or not. Eve should not be a safe place. If you want the benefits of having or being in a corp you should accept the risks. If you are careful you can avoid most of them. But the lazy should not be rewarded with safety for doing nothing. Also saying just gank or war dec them is not a alternative. People can drop and switch corps when war deced and ganking solo limits your targets.
Quattras Peione Gentlemen of Fortune. 46	Posted - 2015.01.17 04:51:39 - [144] - Quote Aiyshimin wrote: suicide tanks Typo or not, this is a potential feature that merits its own thread.
Mario Putzo Welping and Dunking. 1107	Posted - 2015.01.17 04:58:46 - [145] - Quote All these folks complaining about losing easy ganks. To bad you will now have to put effort into it. Join a corp, become a director, switch option off, gank ceo, steal as much as you can.
Maqari Kinraysuwa Oruze Cruise 15	Posted - 2015.01.17 05:43:08 - [146] - Quote Mario Putzo wrote: All these folks complaining about losing easy ganks. To bad you will now have to put effort into it. Join a corp, become a director, switch option off, gank ceo, steal as much as you can. Your killboard looks like it could use some easy ganks, maybe you should consider highsec awoxing.
Aran Hotchkiss Phoibe Enterprises 54	Posted - 2015.01.17 05:48:41 - [147] - Quote Mario Putzo wrote: All these folks complaining about losing easy ganks. Daichi Yamato: This, for me, is about the pool of high sec corps being filled with tripe and the actual good corps out there being made even less visible to the new players looking for them. Arya Regnar: Confirming I don't like this and making eve safe isn't going to make it any more fun or better in any way as it just babysits the idiots. Sladislov: One of the things about eve that i like is that you have to choose who to trust carefully, but slowly this choice is being taken away as more and more measures are being taken to turn highsec into a cozy place that is perfectly safe. This is a slippery slope. Iain Cariaba: Even though I do little in highsec anymore, I feel that removing intra-corp combat from highsec violates the Everyone vs. Everyone attitude that is the main reason I pay the monthly subscription fees and play this game. Lugh Crow-Slave: Well at least i can just hit accept on every invite no need to actually give them even a modicum not like eve was about emergent player interactions anyway. Black Pedro: This change only makes it safer for these established players with assets, and does nothing for new players that don't even know what awoxing is. Hopefully it makes these established corps more willing to take on new players, but it will also increase the number of failcorps and scam corps trying to attract new players for tax farming. Kane Ceres: Corps already have more than enough tools to avoid being awoxed 99% of the time. If you accept someone with a mile long corp history - you deserve to be awoxed. If you accept someone with a blank app and no API check - you deserve to be awoxed. If you accept someone with lots of blue on blue on their killboard - YOU DESERVE TO BE AWOXED. With the kick at downtime feature the damage an awoxer can do is harshly limited. All this does is protect lazy people who are not willing to vet their applicants. The bulk of the complaints in this thread have been A) EvE is characterised as a harsh/unforgiving/trial-by-fire game, and this errodes at those attributes B) Awoxxing to an extent culls (for want of a better word) lazy/inept hi-sec corps that are detrimental to the NPE Straw-manning people's valid opposition to the change as something's that's never actually been mentioned will only derail the thread or lead to more emotional/negative responses, which can lead into a downward spiral of ranting and trolling until this thread is locked just like the last one. Personal reasons I'm against the idea - 1) Corp FFA's/events/tagging a mate with a target painter for *** n' giggles (This is addressed by having a toggle-able option, but points have been made about the issues with that) 2) Point A mentioned above. (I'm generally meh about what I read on the forums.... This change though really sets my teeth on edge. Bit like Iain I don't do much in hisec except for running HQ incursions when I've burnt through my isk in lowsec, and as a recruiter I'd personally stand to gain from this change as the consequence of being lax on the recruitment process are less, but I still think this would be detrimental overall. Granted, if CCP believes this will help their bottom dollar.... Welp there's a cinder's chance in a snowstorm this change won't go through. Shamelessly stole this line, Alternatively, QFT One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia**
Lugh Crow-Slave 511	Posted - 2015.01.17 06:10:18 - [148] - Quote Mario Putzo wrote: All these folks complaining about losing easy ganks. To bad you will now have to put effort into it. Join a corp, become a director, switch option off, gank ceo, steal as much as you can. Look at my KB look at the alliance i run I spend all of my energy in eve helping new players, new corps and new CEOs I don't think this is a bad idea because i enjoy easy kills I think this is a bad idea because it is not eve. A corporation isn't just about the chat room ore the lower tax rate its about playing the game with people you trust even knowing they have free rain to screw you over in so many ways. This is something that makes the community, your corp so much more valuable. Awoxers provide content for themselves and those they awox at the same time remind players that this isn't the type of game where you are 100% safe even from those who fly under your flag. That's not something you can find in any other decent MMO and is unique to eve and echos the spirit of what makes it so great. Fuel block colors
Sladislov Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx 60	Posted - 2015.01.17 09:21:20 - [149] - Quote Donnachadh wrote: Interesting to read since my last post here. After reading the oft touted meeting minutes on thing is even more clear now than before and to be honest it trumps any thing and every argument we as players could post. $$$$$ Did I mention cash money. $$$$$ You know the cold hard real life cash that CCP uses to pay for devs, artists, computers for them, servers for us and the list goes on. Any company that cannot or will not adjust to keep the majority of their paying customers will soon find themselves on the bankrupt and out of business list. If CCP thinks any in game activity be it high sec AWOXing, suicide ganking or running missions is threatening the real cash bottom line then it needs to be changed removed from the game. A question and this is hypothetical You control CCP do you keep high sec AWOXing in game and risk losing the majority of your paying customers? Or do you remove high sec AWOXing and risk losing a very small minority of your paying players? To a smart business manager the answer to this one is easy, you cater to the majority and keep them in the game. Then you take the money you have and work to find ways to give the minority something that will keep them in the game. If ccp wanted to make big bux they wouldn't have made eve. Eve appeals to a niche group of people (usually older than the average MMO player). Even though there are less people playing eve the playerbase is really loyal (just look at the amount of people older than 5 years or so who are still playing). Barring WoW i dont think i've seen this much player retention in any other mmo. Would you rather have an interesting game with ~500k active people or a boring game with 10M active people? (hint go play world of warcraft) Maria Dragoon wrote: And which underlying principle is there to prove? Hmmm? What kind of thought provoking things does this thread provide, what kind of thinking is it pushing by providing no information at all? God, and before you tell me to stop posting, at least learn to know the difference between "u" and you. that it stops intra corp agression Allah, and before you tell me to learn to spell, please learn some reading comprehension, ty -á-á-á-á-á-á Sladislov Director of Silly semantics -á-á-á-á-á-áBroksi Kurth -á-á xXxBlack LegionxXx
Aiyshimin Shiva Furnace 350	Posted - 2015.01.17 10:04:38 - [150] - Quote Aran Hotchkiss wrote: The bulk of the complaints in this thread have been A) EvE is characterised as a harsh/unforgiving/trial-by-fire game, and this errodes at those attributes B) Awoxxing to an extent culls (for want of a better word) lazy/inept hi-sec corps that are detrimental to the NPE A) EVE will be harsh/unforgiving/trial-by-fire game, just a bit harsher and unforgiving for awoxers B) Disabling awoxing to an extent culls lazy/inept hi-sec wannabe gankers who are detrimental to NPE and OPE
Lugh Crow-Slave 512	Posted - 2015.01.17 10:40:32 - [151] - Quote Aiyshimin wrote: B) Disabling awoxing to an extent culls lazy/inept hi-sec wannabe gankers who are detrimental to NPE and OPE No this will just be detrimental to the new players that join the wrong corp and get AWOXED by it Fuel block colors
Aiyshimin Shiva Furnace 351	Posted - 2015.01.17 11:05:39 - [152] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Aiyshimin wrote: B) Disabling awoxing to an extent culls lazy/inept hi-sec wannabe gankers who are detrimental to NPE and OPE No this will just be detrimental to the new players that join the wrong corp and get AWOXED by it It doesn't change anything in that regard.
Lugh Crow-Slave 512	Posted - 2015.01.17 11:07:19 - [153] - Quote Aiyshimin wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Aiyshimin wrote: B) Disabling awoxing to an extent culls lazy/inept hi-sec wannabe gankers who are detrimental to NPE and OPE No this will just be detrimental to the new players that join the wrong corp and get AWOXED by it It doesn't change anything in that regard. EXACTLY this does not serve the NPE only corps who don't want to worry about who they let in Fuel block colors
Aiyshimin Shiva Furnace 352	Posted - 2015.01.17 11:45:45 - [154] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Aiyshimin wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Aiyshimin wrote: B) Disabling awoxing to an extent culls lazy/inept hi-sec wannabe gankers who are detrimental to NPE and OPE No this will just be detrimental to the new players that join the wrong corp and get AWOXED by it It doesn't change anything in that regard. EXACTLY this does not serve the NPE only corps who don't want to worry about who they let in OK, so it's better to make it non-optional. Doesnt make this a bad change anyway.
Aran Hotchkiss Phoibe Enterprises 55	Posted - 2015.01.17 12:03:37 - [155] - Quote What I meant by my second point was you have hi-sec corps founded by people with supposedly good intentions or just average intentions, but are either unaware, ill-prepared or just overwhelmed by what can be required to keep a corp running. Using a personal anecdote. Had a potential recruit who was quite new to the game and was already a corp thief (I'll refer to him as Smith) - our diplomat had bumped into them in local and, intrigued by their story, dropped them into our public channel. Was a fairly small hi-sec corp, bunch of missioners/industrialists etc. founded in a fairly informal manner with the CEO banding together with a bunch of semi-strangers and putting them in leadership positions - Smith was one of these people. From what I heard things were starting to fray at the edges, and one event in particular which kicked things off was a vetern industrialist refusing to put his personal BPO's in the corp hangar, so the CEO in response tried to have Smith contact a few of his low-sec friends to gank the industrialists freighter on a staged route through lowsec. Smith refused, and by this point all hell's breaking loose so Smith grabbed a bunch of fuel / corp assets and legged it. From what I could tell he gave most of the isk he'd made away to newbies in help channels etc. In a nutshell, threats to the NPE aren't always obvious like Awoxers or suicide gankers - sometimes it's just good intentions. EVE's a game about adversity and risk. I recall the time's I've lost ships and I've come to relish them - that's an attitude that seems to be encouraged in EvE: Don't fly what you can't afford to lose, but likewise don't get hung up on losing ships - learn from your mistakes and move on. I've personally never had the experience of being awoxed or ransomed, but I feel they're valued conflict drivers. Also stealing a line from the afk cloaking thread attributed to a CSM/DEV "Show me someone who has been genuinely harmed by AFK cloaking, and I'll show you someone who has no business playing EvE." I feel a similar sentiment here. Shamelessly stole this line, Alternatively, QFT One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Lugh Crow-Slave 512	Posted - 2015.01.17 12:09:48 - [156] - Quote CCP Falcon wrote: I'd rather not be working on the project regardless of how many subscribers we had, than sell out the core principles that New Eden was built on. I would like to hear his take on this to be honest Fuel block colors
chaosgrimm Universal Production and Networking Services 179	Posted - 2015.01.17 13:19:48 - [157] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: CCP Falcon wrote: I'd rather not be working on the project regardless of how many subscribers we had, than sell out the core principles that New Eden was built on. I would like to hear his take on this to be honest Since it's at least ur second time posting this, I'll bite. Why? He's a community manager. Now maybe my outlook on community managers is skewed, but I've always kind of thought of them like glorified customer service reps. I'm sure if he had a say and if that say was that this change should not be implemented, that it would not be. So he either doesn't have a say, doesn't mind the changes, or both. In any case, it's irrelevant to the discussion.
Alvatore DiMarco Capricious Endeavours Ltd 3285	Posted - 2015.01.17 13:52:02 - [158] - Quote I tried to catch up on the thread before posting, really I did. I just lost my patience halfway through and had to reply to this immediately. Aran Hotchkiss wrote: Daichi Yamato: This, for me, is about the pool of high sec corps being filled with tripe and the actual good corps out there being made even less visible to the new players looking for them. You must admit - or even if you don't want to admit it you must realize - that all this so-called tripe you're worried about is already playing EVE even right now. Where are they? They're in the starter NPC corps where the rookies end up, which is the last place they should be. If a change like this gets even 1% of that tripe out of the rookie corps (regardless if they end up in not-rookie NPC corps) then IMO that's a massive victory for new players everywhere. Yes it does mean there will be more nonsense corps and it means that corps might be "cheapened" somewhat (I disagree, but that's not the point) but we've got so many terrible "mining, missioning and manufacturing" corps already that I doubt the difference will really be that noticeable. At the very least, tripe will attract tripe and the wardec corps will find themselves staring at a monumentally larger field of potential prey. In a slightly more ideal scenario those prey corps will be large enough to feel like they can fight rather than dec-evading and continuing to be tripe. It also means that there will potentially be somewhat fewer voices of risk-aversion in the chat channels where those newbies spend their first impressionable moments meeting people and asking how to fly their ship. Moments that could be better used for guiding them toward the path of pew and/or scooping them up into a corporation that does something other than the ubiquitous "3 Ms". There will still be vetting and pilot evaluation in highsec's post-awoxing future. Not all "good" corps will turn awoxing off, and the ones that do will still have to evaluate if the pilot they've taken in is worthwhile or tripe.
Lugh Crow-Slave 514	Posted - 2015.01.17 14:25:39 - [159] - Quote chaosgrimm wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: CCP Falcon wrote: I'd rather not be working on the project regardless of how many subscribers we had, than sell out the core principles that New Eden was built on. I would like to hear his take on this to be honest Since it's at least ur second time posting this, I'll bite. Why? He's a community manager. Now maybe my outlook on community managers is skewed, but I've always kind of thought of them like glorified customer service reps. I'm sure if he had a say and if that say was that this change should not be implemented, that it would not be. So he either doesn't have a say, doesn't mind the changes, or both. In any case, it's irrelevant to the discussion. i didn't say he would have a say just that as a community manager i would like to know what he thinks on it. Currently all we have to go on is "Corps will be able to disable friendly fire" a lot of people are assuming what this means but we don't know any of the details Fuel block colors
Alvatore DiMarco Capricious Endeavours Ltd 3287	Posted - 2015.01.17 14:34:18 - [160] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Currently all we have to go on is "Corps will be able to disable friendly fire" a lot of people are assuming what this means but we don't know any of the details I'd be willing to bet ISK that a corporation with its AWOX settings turned to "Disable" will still be vulnerable to suicide ganks by corp members rather than the ships becoming untargetable and/or unshootable/invincible to corp members, especially since that would almost certainly make it equally impossible to use logi on them.
chaosgrimm Universal Production and Networking Services 179	Posted - 2015.01.17 15:09:52 - [161] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: chaosgrimm wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: CCP Falcon wrote: I'd rather not be working on the project regardless of how many subscribers we had, than sell out the core principles that New Eden was built on. I would like to hear his take on this to be honest Since it's at least ur second time posting this, I'll bite. Why? He's a community manager. Now maybe my outlook on community managers is skewed, but I've always kind of thought of them like glorified customer service reps. I'm sure if he had a say and if that say was that this change should not be implemented, that it would not be. So he either doesn't have a say, doesn't mind the changes, or both. In any case, it's irrelevant to the discussion. i didn't say he would have a say just that as a community manager i would like to know what he thinks on it. Currently all we have to go on is "Corps will be able to disable friendly fire" a lot of people are assuming what this means but we don't know any of the details Ah, I see. I assumed that when you used phases like "his take on it" and "what he thinks" that you were looking for his opinions, and not clarification.
Kane Ceres University of Caille Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.01.17 15:32:49 - [162] - Quote To anyone thinking that this is going to save new players and get people out of npc corps you are sorely wrong. All this will do is make reverse safaris much more common ( have a corp enable friendly Fire invite people) and would actually likely discourage people joining corps just as much as allowing awoxing as is. This change just feels out of the spirit of Eve.
Lugh Crow-Slave 515	Posted - 2015.01.17 15:40:23 - [163] - Quote Alvatore DiMarco wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Currently all we have to go on is "Corps will be able to disable friendly fire" a lot of people are assuming what this means but we don't know any of the details I'd be willing to bet ISK that a corporation with its AWOX settings turned to "Disable" will still be vulnerable to suicide ganks by corp members rather than the ships becoming untargetable and/or unshootable/invincible to corp members, especially since that would almost certainly make it equally impossible to use logi on them. but will there be a downside to doing it will there be a reason not to do it other than recruitment scams or in corp pvp Fuel block colors
Mario Putzo Welping and Dunking. 1107	Posted - 2015.01.17 15:41:26 - [164] - Quote Maqari Kinraysuwa wrote: Mario Putzo wrote: All these folks complaining about losing easy ganks. To bad you will now have to put effort into it. Join a corp, become a director, switch option off, gank ceo, steal as much as you can. Your killboard looks like it could use some easy ganks, maybe you should consider highsec awoxing. Well its a good thing this is just a market trading/cyno alt otherwise id have to eat some crow.
Daichi Yamato Xero Security and Technologies 2189	Posted - 2015.01.17 16:55:21 - [165] - Quote Alvatore DiMarco wrote: You must admit - or even if you don't want to admit it you must realize - that all this so-called tripe you're worried about is already playing EVE even right now. Where are they? They're in the starter NPC corps where the rookies end up, which is the last place they should be. If a change like this gets even 1% of that tripe out of the rookie corps (regardless if they end up in not-rookie NPC corps) then IMO that's a massive victory for new players everywhere. Yes it does mean there will be more nonsense corps and it means that corps might be "cheapened" somewhat (I disagree, but that's not the point) but we've got so many terrible "mining, missioning and manufacturing" corps already that I doubt the difference will really be that noticeable. At the very least, tripe will attract tripe and the wardec corps will find themselves staring at a monumentally larger field of potential prey. In a slightly more ideal scenario those prey corps will be large enough to feel like they can fight rather than dec-evading and continuing to be tripe. It also means that there will potentially be somewhat fewer voices of risk-aversion in the chat channels where those newbies spend their first impressionable moments meeting people and asking how to fly their ship. Moments that could be better used for guiding them toward the path of pew and/or scooping them up into a corporation that does something other than the ubiquitous "3 Ms". There will still be vetting and pilot evaluation in highsec's post-awoxing future. Not all "good" corps will turn awoxing off, and the ones that do will still have to evaluate if the pilot they've taken in is worthwhile or tripe. But we tell all the players that to enjoy the game they need to get into a player run corp, not stay in an NPC corp. So by this point we will be actively encouraging them to play with others that wont provide a 'good' experience. It'd be like they never left an NPC corp as far as social experiences are concerned. You dont need to remove AWOXing to get noobs away from the tripe and into something socially driven. Corp lites would have done that whilst keeping different types of corps segregated and therefore more visible. And by that i dont mean 'good' and 'bad'. I mean NPC (for my tripe), Purely social (for friends and kickin it in chat) and Asset based (for risk/reward and getting into the sandbox). You are wrong to think that a larger corp made up of former NPC corp members will be willing to organise and fight (save for perhaps CAS) and youre also wrong to think that it even matters with the guerrilla style warfare that is wardecs. There are also other ways of dealing with noob corp chat for the NPE that have been suggested on these forums. Every argument against AWOXing applies to other sandbox content like ganks and decs. Every benefit put forward from removing AWOXing could be accomplished by other means. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
Lugh Crow-Slave 516	Posted - 2015.01.17 17:30:17 - [166] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: Every argument against AWOXing applies to other sandbox content like ganks and decs. Every benefit put forward from removing AWOXing could be accomplished by other means. This^ But i will say if this does go through i will finally start a freighter corp on an alt (something i have wanted to do since i started eve) So at least i have something to be happy about... even if it is a hollow happiness Fuel block colors
Lugh Crow-Slave 516	Posted - 2015.01.17 17:35:35 - [167] - Quote Mario Putzo wrote: I just sit in station making bank. so this doesn't affect you at all then? Fuel block colors
Alvatore DiMarco Capricious Endeavours Ltd 3290	Posted - 2015.01.17 18:26:29 - [168] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Alvatore DiMarco wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Currently all we have to go on is "Corps will be able to disable friendly fire" a lot of people are assuming what this means but we don't know any of the details I'd be willing to bet ISK that a corporation with its AWOX settings turned to "Disable" will still be vulnerable to suicide ganks by corp members rather than the ships becoming untargetable and/or unshootable/invincible to corp members, especially since that would almost certainly make it equally impossible to use logi on them. but will there be a downside to doing it will there be a reason not to do it other than recruitment scams or in corp pvp I very severely doubt there will be any sort of "downside" or "penalty" to disabling AWOXing. It will probably be a checkbox somewhere in the corp management window. Now that I think of it, though, having to navigate the corp management window is pretty much a penalty unto itself.
Donnachadh United Allegiance of Undesirables 94	Posted - 2015.01.17 20:07:04 - [169] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: There is no evidence to suggest that the recent rumored recession of subs has anything to do with AWOXing. More than likely it was the 'blue donut' {the opposite of AWOXing lol) that did that. While CCP may have a financial agenda behind this change, your hypothetical questions was based upon a gross misconception. And you have NO evidence to support your point of view on this topic. In fact NONE of us has any evidence to support our point of view. The simple fact that a change of this type is being publicly discussed by CCP in "official" channels supports the conclusions that CCP is concerned enough about this issue to be working on it instead of the many other things that need to be done. The fact that those discussions are centered on removing or reducing intra-corp aggression strongly indicates that for some reason they consider it to be detrimental to the future of the game, or to future plans they have for the game. My questions are not based on a gross misconception. In fact the only misconception here is yours, when you assumed that my questions were anything but what they were stated to be and that is "hypothetical". I do hope you are aware of what that means but just in case you are not here is a link that will help. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/hypothetical My "hypothetical" questions were posted because I simply wondered how you and the others would respond to a specific set of circumstances IF you were in control of CCP. Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: CCP Falcon wrote: I'd rather not be working on the project regardless of how many subscribers we had, than sell out the core principles that New Eden was built on. I would like to hear his take on this to be honest I agree, I would like to read his comments about this. However the bottom line still remains the same he works for CCP and whatever they want for this game will be what happens no matter what his personal beliefs are.
Sladislov Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx 60	Posted - 2015.01.17 20:14:22 - [170] - Quote yes because ccp is always right cough walk in stations cough aurum cough -á-á-á-á-á-á Sladislov Director of Silly semantics -á-á-á-á-á-áBroksi Kurth -á-á xXxBlack LegionxXx
Lugh Crow-Slave 519	Posted - 2015.01.17 20:18:42 - [171] - Quote Donnachadh wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: CCP Falcon wrote: I'd rather not be working on the project regardless of how many subscribers we had, than sell out the core principles that New Eden was built on. I would like to hear his take on this to be honest I agree, I would like to read his comments about this. However the bottom line still remains the same he works for CCP and whatever they want for this game will be what happens no matter what his personal beliefs are. why is it that people keep thinking i want to hear his side because i think it will stop this from becoming a thing. I want to hear it because i believe what he said when he wrote that. so there must be some reasoning behind this that does not take away from the cor principles of eve since as far as i know he is still working with CCP. this wasn't a come save us from the care bares post it was a request to help us understand Fuel block colors
Lugh Crow-Slave 519	Posted - 2015.01.17 20:30:04 - [172] - Quote Sladislov wrote: yes because ccp is always right cough walk in stations cough aurum cough to be fair had it not been for the backlash at the micro transactions(that stayed) work on WIS would probably have continued But the massive downsize saw a lot of their dev power loss and the shock of it made them afraid to do anything new for years Fuel block colors
Steppa Musana Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 48	Posted - 2015.01.17 20:40:01 - [173] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: But we tell all the players that to enjoy the game they need to get into a player run corp, not stay in an NPC corp. So by this point we will be actively encouraging them to play with others that wont provide a 'good' experience. It'd be like they never left an NPC corp as far as social experiences are concerned.. I was part of a carebear corp for awhile that fit any description of a "bad" EVE corp you can think of. After awhile we got bored and tried new things, like WH trips and lowsec roams and even actually fighting during a wardec. Bad corps that stick together long enough can transform into a not so bad corp. That corp is now in a PVP alliance, 'Ive since moved out to null, and I dont think I'd sti'l be playing if I had sat in an NPC corp instead of joining them. So no its many times not the same as them staying in an NPC corp. Players banding together is always a good thing even if they are barely playing EVE while doing so. And if the cost of that is a few tear harvesting idiots have to put some actual risk into there gameplay then so be it.
Alvatore DiMarco Capricious Endeavours Ltd 3291	Posted - 2015.01.17 20:40:52 - [174] - Quote Donnachadh wrote: In fact NONE of us has any evidence to support our point of view. The simple fact that a change of this type is being publicly discussed by CCP in "official" channels supports the conclusions that CCP is concerned enough about this issue to be working on it instead of the many other things that need to be done. The fact that those discussions are centered on removing or reducing intra-corp aggression strongly indicates that for some reason they consider it to be detrimental to the future of the game, or to future plans they have for the game. Do I really have to wave the CSM minutes around again? They specifically discuss why they want to make this change. They literally spell it out in black and white - black letters on a white background on Page 74 of the PDF.
Mario Putzo Welping and Dunking. 1108	Posted - 2015.01.17 20:43:11 - [175] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Mario Putzo wrote: I just sit in station making bank. so this doesn't affect you at all then? Nope but its fun to see the whine from folks who will lose out on easy ganks. Way better than reading the tears from folks they gank thats for sure.
Sladislov Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx 60	Posted - 2015.01.17 20:46:41 - [176] - Quote I like how a guy who barely undocks and spends more time on the forums than actually flying spaceships can talk about ganks. Its finding the right combination of rich and stupid and then trying to join the corp; trying to weasel your way through any suspicions he has. A friend of mine awoxes with all the medals he has ever gotten from awoxing on public display. Basically he's walking around with a giant signpost saying "AWOXER" on him and STILL people invite him into their corps. -á-á-á-á-á-á Sladislov Director of Silly semantics -á-á-á-á-á-áBroksi Kurth -á-á xXxBlack LegionxXx
Alvatore DiMarco Capricious Endeavours Ltd 3291	Posted - 2015.01.17 20:49:32 - [177] - Quote Mario Putzo wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Mario Putzo wrote: I just sit in station making bank. so this doesn't affect you at all then? Nope but its fun to see the whine from folks who will lose out on easy ganks. Way better thanthe tears from folks they gank thats for sure. If you're only here to fan the flames, see whining and collect "tears" I must insist that you STFU and GTFO this thread.
Lugh Crow-Slave 519	Posted - 2015.01.17 20:50:56 - [178] - Quote Sladislov wrote: I like how a guy who barely undocks and spends more time on the forums than actually flying spaceships can talk about ganks. Its finding the right combination of rich and stupid and then trying to join the corp; trying to weasel your way through any suspicions he has. A friend of mine awoxes with all the medals he has ever gotten from awoxing on public display. Basically he's walking around with a giant signpost saying "AWOXER" on him and STILL people invite him into their corps. Lol i knew a guy who did something like that but he put all the comments of the people he awoxed into his Bio Fuel block colors
Mario Putzo Welping and Dunking. 1108	Posted - 2015.01.17 20:51:29 - [179] - Quote Alvatore DiMarco wrote: Mario Putzo wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Mario Putzo wrote: I just sit in station making bank. so this doesn't affect you at all then? Nope but its fun to see the whine from folks who will lose out on easy ganks. Way better thanthe tears from folks they gank thats for sure. If you're only here to fan the flames, see whining and collect "tears" I must insist that you STFU and GTFO this thread. No.
Ines Tegator Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc. 536	Posted - 2015.01.17 20:59:12 - [180] - Quote This thread: Two guys impersonating Chicken Little and replying to everyone else as if people are listening to them. Overhaul Dscan!
Iain Cariaba 912	Posted - 2015.01.17 21:17:11 - [181] - Quote Ines Tegator wrote: This thread: Two guys impersonating Chicken Little and replying to everyone else as if people are listening to them. You read enough to form that opinion, so obviously you are listening to them. EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
Lugh Crow-Slave 519	Posted - 2015.01.17 21:33:59 - [182] - Quote Alvatore DiMarco wrote: Do I really have to wave the CSM minutes around again? They specifically discuss why they want to make this change. They literally spell it out in black and white - black letters on a white background on Page 74 of the PDF. I read the minutes and do understand the thought process behind it a lot better. however i'm not against this idea because i think this idea is bad to be honest it is much better however i am now even more worried about it than i was before not because of what it is but because of what it could lead to. take most of the instances where they explain the problems with inter corp aggregation and replace inter corp aggregation with HS ganking most of the same arguments hold up. new players don't understand why in HS(safe space) they can be killed new players feel violated and quit the game never to return because of it you can still do it in LS Null and WH and so on. then add how HS ganking is much more common this line of thought is a dangerous road to go down for eve i don't speak out against no more corp awoxing because i think my doing so will change its implementation but to be a part of the visible outcry against these types of changes Fuel block colors
Sladislov Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx 60	Posted - 2015.01.17 22:45:35 - [183] - Quote Instead of making it clear how the mechanics work, lets change the mechanics so they better suit people that dont understand them. Is CCP becoming apple? -á-á-á-á-á-á Sladislov Director of Silly semantics -á-á-á-á-á-áBroksi Kurth -á-á xXxBlack LegionxXx
Lugh Crow-Slave 519	Posted - 2015.01.17 22:56:14 - [184] - Quote Sladislov wrote: Instead of making it clear how the mechanics work, lets change the mechanics so they better suit people that dont understand them. Is CCP becoming apple? but in this regard they do have a point you can't just have blanket text explaining everything Fuel block colors
chaosgrimm Universal Production and Networking Services 179	Posted - 2015.01.17 23:16:40 - [185] - Quote Sladislov wrote: Instead of making it clear how the mechanics work, lets change the mechanics so they better suit people that dont understand them. Is CCP becoming apple? I took some comments from the CSM minutes that might shine some light on this. CCP Fozzie wrote: Quickly, on the AWOXing issue it is important to note that AWOXing became a thing completely outside of being able to shoot your corpmates. It is an indication that there are certainly many ways that you can hurt someone besides shooting them in high sec and having different rules around crimewatch. And that is where AWOXing came from. When it comes to being able to infiltrate and damage people that has always been a key part of Eve. There is a combination of A: They recognize that there is a lot of harm in the game play where it makes it harder for individuals and corporations to find each other. There is no logical basis for why this police force is shooting people who shoot each other unless they are in the same corp. CCP Fozzie wrote: In a game where it is important to get people to interact with other people we have a situation where if your ISK is not made from bounties and you do not need the extra features of a corporation that the optimum choice in all circumstances is not to play with other people. We don't want it to be this way. =============================== DJ Funkybacon wrote: Can we not educate people against this instead of changing mechanics? CCP Fozzie wrote: Then we get to the point where we have huge amounts of documentation that covers bad game mechanics if we keep doing this?
Mario Putzo Welping and Dunking. 1108	Posted - 2015.01.18 00:14:14 - [186] - Quote CCP Fozzie a hero for all the right reasons!
ISD Ezwal ISD Community Communications Liaisons 3628	Posted - 2015.01.18 00:59:52 - [187] - Quote There is at least one other thread on the subject and in a more proper part of the forum to boot. Thread locked. The Rules: 17. Redundant and re-posted threads will be locked. As a courtesy to other forum users, please search to see if there is a thread already open on the topic you wish to discuss. If so, please place your comments there instead. Multiple threads on the same subject clutter up the forums needlessly, causing good feedback and ideas to be lost. Please keep discussion regarding a topic to a single thread. ISD Ezwal Vice Admiral Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department

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