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Destiny Corrupted Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company 2533	Posted - 2015.01.17 01:25:26 - [451] - Quote There was no bait. I asked you a simple question. Accusing someone of trolling as a response is absolutely ridiculous, and proves to everyone that you have no argument. I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here: https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11243	Posted - 2015.01.17 01:28:36 - [452] - Quote Tyberius Franklin wrote: The better a corp is the more likely they have cautious recruitment, the more cautious and selective the recruitment the greater the possibility that they might exclude a genuine new player under fear they are a awoxer. False. A good corp knows how to tell the difference between a new player and an awoxer, as it's blindingly obvious if you actually look at an API check. (I'll give you a hint, no new player, ever, will have half a million skillpoints in Gallente Destroyer and Small Hybrid guns) A good corp has zero issue recruiting newbies. Quote: On the other hand, bad corps, who are more likely attract awoxers and not be able to offer positive experiences for new players are one in the same. Which is why they should be destroyed by awoxers, wars and other such things, since their continued existence is basically griefing newbies. Where were you going with this? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Sugar Smacks State War Academy Caldari State 25	Posted - 2015.01.17 01:45:14 - [453] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Aredontis wrote: CCP has decided that corps don't bring in enough noobs because they don't want to get an awoxer. This is the part that is the biggest lie. If corps aren't recruiting noobs, then no one is being awoxed in the first place. But since awoxing is happening, then people are in fact recruiting. The real problem here is that there are too many ways to pretend that EVE is a single player game, and that highsec enables those things too much with hand holding gameplay. When did EvE become a game that had to be played your way? When did EvE have any correct way to play? More people is beneficial, period. There is no quality in a player who's primary gameplay is centered around targeting newbies.
Tyberius Franklin Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 1360	Posted - 2015.01.17 01:47:42 - [454] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: False. A good corp knows how to tell the difference between a new player and an awoxer, as it's blindingly obvious if you actually look at an API check. (I'll give you a hint, no new player, ever, will have half a million skillpoints in Gallente Destroyer and Small Hybrid guns) A good corp has zero issue recruiting newbies. I've never been awoxed, so honestly I have no clue if anyone makes efforts in diversifying their skills to make such signs less obvious, so I'll take your word for it. Quote: Which is why they should be destroyed by awoxers, wars and other such things, since their continued existence is basically griefing newbies. Where were you going with this? This part doesn't seem to be working out, else awoxing itself would have been a self resolving issue. To be more specific, the triviality of opening another trash corp and targeting those who lack the experience to know it's trash doesn't seem in any way countered by awoxing.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11246	Posted - 2015.01.17 01:50:11 - [455] - Quote Sugar Smacks wrote: When did EvE become a game that had to be played your way? As long as the Q&A for the game has said "EVE Online is a PvP game". So, since always. Quote: When did EvE have any correct way to play? I hate to break this to you, but yes, there are ways to play the game wrong. It's a sandbox game, so in fact there are dozens of ways to do it wrong. Quote: More people is beneficial, period. Quantity is not quality, and it never will be. Quote: There is no quality in a player who's primary gameplay is centered around targeting newbies. Good thing no one actually does this, since newbies have nothing worth taking. Changes like this only benefit the fat, lazy old carebears who can't be asked to defend themselves. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11246	Posted - 2015.01.17 01:52:28 - [456] - Quote Tyberius Franklin wrote: I've never been awoxed, so honestly I have no clue if anyone makes efforts in diversifying their skills to make such signs less obvious, so I'll take your word for it. We don't. Part of why it's so funny is that even if you give them your API, most of the time they don't look at it. Quote: This part doesn't seem to be working out, else awoxing itself would have been a self resolving issue. It is. That's what makes this a false flag. Quote: To be more specific, the triviality of opening another trash corp and targeting those who lack the experience to know it's trash doesn't seem in any way countered by awoxing. If you're asking why the barrier to that hasn't been raised, damned if I know. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Tyberius Franklin Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 1360	Posted - 2015.01.17 01:58:22 - [457] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Quote: This part doesn't seem to be working out, else awoxing itself would have been a self resolving issue. It is. That's what makes this a false flag. Then I'm missing something. If awoxing was weeding out these corps then would it not be expected that potential targets on which awoxing would work would decrease, further decreasing the amount of actual awoxing until it became too trivial to even consider if not nonexistent (which is what was mean by self resolving)? Or are we looking at this some other way in saying it is working?
Destiny Corrupted Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company 2534	Posted - 2015.01.17 02:01:51 - [458] - Quote Tyberius Franklin wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Quote: This part doesn't seem to be working out, else awoxing itself would have been a self resolving issue. It is. That's what makes this a false flag. Then I'm missing something. If awoxing was weeding out these corps then would it not be expected that potential targets on which awoxing would work would decrease, further decreasing the amount of actual awoxing until it became too trivial to even consider if not nonexistent (which is what was mean by self resolving)? Or are we looking at this some other way in saying it is working? That's the entire point. How many stories about awoxing have you read lately? I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here: https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11247	Posted - 2015.01.17 02:01:55 - [459] - Quote Tyberius Franklin wrote: Then I'm missing something. If awoxing was weeding out these corps then would it not be expected that potential targets on which awoxing would work would decrease, further decreasing the amount of actual awoxing until it became to trivial too even consider if not nonexistent (which is what was mean by self resolving)? You're forgetting that some people just don't learn. The kind of people who make bad corps, and then get awoxed, are often repeat victims in a tertiary capacity. Basically, the bad corps self propagate at a fairly ridiculous rate, since the barrier for entry to make a corp is so very low. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Tyberius Franklin Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 1360	Posted - 2015.01.17 02:10:16 - [460] - Quote Destiny Corrupted wrote: That's the entire point. How many stories about awoxing have you read lately? General disinterests leaves that number at 0 regardless of the actual level of activity. I can't be counted on to help your point there, not to say you aren't right. Kaarous Aldurald wrote: You're forgetting that some people just don't learn. The kind of people who make bad corps, and then get awoxed, are often repeat victims in a tertiary capacity. Basically, the bad corps self propagate at a fairly ridiculous rate, since the barrier for entry to make a corp is so very low. I'm not so much forgetting as I am taking that very fact into consideration. If reforming is trivial I just don't see the stated gains from awoxing allowing this conversation and the events precipitating it to be a thing.
McChicken Combo HalfMayo The Happy Meal 260	Posted - 2015.01.17 02:11:25 - [461] - Quote Wardecs, Awoxing, NPC corp invulnerability, wardec dodging, and lacking tangible benefits of player corps are all current problems that need to be addressed together. The removal of Awoxing is like applying a band aid to a broken leg. A line must be drawn between joining a player group to meet and socialize with like-minded individuals and joining a player group for the tangible benefits of being in one. The risk of wardec and Awox should not be a factor in the former, but it should be in the latter. Refer to Tear Jar's thread on this topic for a more detailed discussion about this. ~ Bookmarks in overview ~ Fleet improvements
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11247	Posted - 2015.01.17 02:25:23 - [462] - Quote Tyberius Franklin wrote: If reforming is trivial That's the point. It shouldn't be. Player corps should be something worth defending, and not being able to trivially reroll them is a vital part of that. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Masato Andris Empyreal Paradox 3	Posted - 2015.01.17 02:50:29 - [463] - Quote As I mentioned back on Page 1, I'm not sure this is a particularly big change. Let us assume that Corp A is a 'bad highsec corp'. Corp A has friendly fire protection enabled in corp settings. - Awoxer can talk their way into the roles required to disable the switch. Given how easily some people hand the keys over... - Intel is still intel. Corp A is probably going to have the details of their next mining op in the corp bulletins. Just pass this on to your nearest friendly squad of Catalysts and be the Warp-at-Zero guy. - Luring targets into lowsec (w-space might work better). Won't always work, of course.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11247	Posted - 2015.01.17 02:57:26 - [464] - Quote Masato Andris wrote: - Awoxer can talk their way into the roles required to disable the switch. Given how easily some people hand the keys over... It gives a 24 hour notification before going into effect. As per CCP Masterplan on reddit. Which pretty much puts the lie to a lot of what people in this thread have been trying to claim. It's not a matter of "being sneaky" or "working harder". This change eliminates awoxing, period. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 9385	Posted - 2015.01.17 03:01:45 - [465] - Quote Aredontis wrote: That sentence really shows me why we don't agree. You believe you know what Eve is and everyone else is somehow "doing it wrong" when not done your way. lol, and here comes the standard "you just want me to play EVE your way" defense mechanism. Such a thing only pops up when the poster knows (deep down) that he's in the wrong about what he posted. We don't agree because to you EVE is just some space ship game and it's ok (to you) if EVE abandons what it is in an attempt to make more money. That's the beginning and the ending of this particular disagreement.
Masato Andris Empyreal Paradox 3	Posted - 2015.01.17 03:10:05 - [466] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: It gives a 24 hour notification before going into effect. As per CCP Masterplan on reddit. I've not been keeping up on Reddit, so I missed that. Time to make more bank on catalysts then...
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 9387	Posted - 2015.01.17 03:10:30 - [467] - Quote Dave Stark wrote: Ah, the day subscription fees mattering more than quality content is finally upon us. fair play to ccp, took them longer to succumb to allure than most other companies. still, a sad day. If you look at the rest of the world, it's pretty easy to understand. CCP (like most companies) is under constant (and unrealistic) pressure from "stake holders" to bring in more money. you don't do that with smallish but dedicated fanbases, you need 'the masses'. it's why quality games can't get funding now and have to gamble on 'crowd funding' schemes and why most MMOs are "lvl up" grind fests for dumb people. It's also why Bad movies get made.. If I were rich I'd buy CCP and make it a non-profit charity ("think of the ~~Children~~ NERDs") dedicated to the preservation of hard core sandbox games that give no fucks about squishy people's 'feelings' .
Mara Rinn Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium 5687	Posted - 2015.01.17 03:18:44 - [468] - Quote Shailagh wrote: Ccp cant you see this logic is flawed?? Some csm dudes even tried to say so. Wtf is the poijt of them is you dont listen?? This vhange and gonna increase RETENTION 1% IF ANYTJING GONNA MAKE OLDVETS QUIT MORE. If the number of new players retained is greater than the number of old vets quitting because they can't shoot in-corp noobs on safaris in hisec, we win. If people are going to quit because of a change which doesn't alter their own game play one iota, well they shouldn't let the door hit their arse on the way out. Day 0 Advice for New Players
Mara Rinn Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium 5687	Posted - 2015.01.17 03:21:15 - [469] - Quote PS: I think CCP is grossly misreading the statistics when they interpret the statistics to mean that encouraging new players to join corporations is the way to increase retention. They've seen the correlation between "players staying in the game" and "players join player run corporations" and assumed that joining a player corp is the cause, rather than both retention and PC-membership being triggered by something else (such as, for example, "making contact with other players who you like hanging around with". Day 0 Advice for New Players
Memphis Baas 66	Posted - 2015.01.17 05:07:54 - [470] - Quote I don't think they're misreading the statistics, it's about the way the game is: players provide the content, CCP just provides sandbox tools. If people log in and then go solo, well then they don't see the content. It's like refusing to talk to ! quest givers in WoW. Mining corporations are still under pressure from CODE et al, Hulkaggedon events, and war declarations. They may gain new members but mining as a profession won't be much safer. The screenshots or videos of miner deaths may look more epic, though, with the new belt visuals that CCP implemented. Long term impact of just the Awox change will probably be minimal. I'm sure there are corps that will keep the switch on. However, as this thread shows, everyone seems to be taking this minor change as a sign that CCP is going to make high-sec completely safe. Which there's absolutely no indication that that's the case.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 1878	Posted - 2015.01.17 06:16:52 - [471] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: This change eliminates awoxing, period. Total Bull, Outright Lie. Awoxing is more than the right to shoot someone without Concord for a start. It does not remove corp theft. It does not remove scamming corp mates who trust you because you are a corp mate. It does not remove convincing them into a duel and abusing them. It does not remove convincing them to go suspect. It does not remove luring them into low sec, lighting a cyno for reds and the reds killing them, (As I hear, that's actually the original thing Awox got it's name from). It does not remove luring them into low sec and killing them yourself. It does not give protection from PvP in high sec. The only thing it removes is a loop hole that allowed you to avoid concord while in high sec IF concord would have interfered otherwise. Quit talking rubbish, your own arguments prove you wrong.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11250	Posted - 2015.01.17 06:23:21 - [472] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Awoxing is more than the right to shoot someone without Concord for a start. It is in highsec, which is the only thing this effects. Corp theft is corp theft. Scamming is scamming. Those things are not awoxing. Neither is mission baiting, in case you were going for that next. Quote: The only thing it removes is a loop hole that allowed you to avoid concord while in high sec IF concord would have interfered otherwise. Hey, while we're at it, can we patch out the loop hole that allows you to avoid wardecs when otherwise you'd have to pay for a surrender. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Don Purple 1113	Posted - 2015.01.17 07:24:47 - [473] - Quote We can still snuggle :D This change for a time will make targets possibly feel safer. It will probably transition into more corp thefts over corp killing by the current guys. In the end. It will not stop us. Don. I am just here to snuggle.
Destiny Corrupted Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company 2535	Posted - 2015.01.17 07:27:04 - [474] - Quote Mara Rinn wrote: If the number of new players retained is greater than the number of old vets quitting because they can't shoot in-corp noobs on safaris in hisec, we win. If people are going to quit because of a change which doesn't alter their own game play one iota, well they shouldn't let the door hit their arse on the way out. If you really believe in that line of reasoning, then you might as well call for the total removal of any and all pvp from the game. The ratio of people who don't want pvp, as opposed to those who do, is three to one. Removing pvp, and not just some underhanded methods of doing pvp, but all of it, would make a whole lot of players, including new players, happy. Mara Rinn wrote: Putting the new player retention argument aside for a moment, I expect that the outcome of disabling safaris will be a bunch of safari hunters doing an awful lot of crying, and a whole heap of mining corporations gaining an influx of new members. The long term impact on the game will be marginal, especially once the safari hunters realise just how cheap wardecs are against smaller player corporations. It's a good little scheme that you've got going there. I see what you mean. So basically, after this terrible awoxing goes away, and mean griefers naturally switch to the only remaining method of non-suicidal hostility toward player corporations, we'll have something else to "balance" away. Memphis Baas wrote: Long term impact of just the Awox change will probably be minimal. I'm sure there are corps that will keep the switch on. However, as this thread shows, everyone seems to be taking this minor change as a sign that CCP is going to make high-sec completely safe. Which there's absolutely no indication that that's the case. Right. We should wait until CCP does that, and then cry about it. This would be a good strategy for making sure that only good changes get implemented, and making sure that the game keeps the integrity and core promises that have allowed it to exist for over a decade. Nevyn Auscent wrote: Total Bull, Outright Lie. Awoxing is more than the right to shoot someone without Concord for a start. It does not remove corp theft. It does not remove scamming corp mates who trust you because you are a corp mate. It does not remove convincing them into a duel and abusing them. It does not remove convincing them to go suspect. It does not remove luring them into low sec, lighting a cyno for reds and the reds killing them, (As I hear, that's actually the original thing Awox got it's name from). It does not remove luring them into low sec and killing them yourself. None of those things are "awoxing." Nevyn Auscent wrote: It does not give protection from PvP in high sec. What. Seriously, listening to these people argue...I'm just speechless. These are the people CCP listens to, with smiles on their faces. I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here: https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Destiny Corrupted Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company 2535	Posted - 2015.01.17 07:28:22 - [475] - Quote Don Purple wrote: We can still snuggle :D This change for a time will make targets possibly feel safer. It will probably transition into more corp thefts over corp killing by the current guys. In the end. It will not stop us. Don. It won't stop us, but stopping us is their intent, so think about the precedent that is being set. I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here: https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Mr Epeen It's All About Me 7553	Posted - 2015.01.17 07:37:11 - [476] - Quote Don Purple wrote: It will not stop us. I should hope not. Well, some of you are that lame, it's true, but most will adapt. And the game will be a better place for it. Like every other time there's been a mechanic change, the tears will flow and the threats to leave will fly. But in the end they'll get over their little tantrum and think up new and creative ways to do the things they like to do. Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
Dave Stark 7259	Posted - 2015.01.17 08:14:10 - [477] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Aredontis wrote: No, you still get your play style, you just get the risk that goes along with it There always was risk. Nothing stopped them from shooting my blinged out Gnosis. But apparently their being risk averse chickenshits is my fault? but what did stop them having any remote chance to kill it and escape is the way neutral logi works. that's all that needed changing, then we wouldn't have hour old characters in gnosises etc being unkillable awoxing machines. even so, just wait 24hrs and they aren't a problem anyway. Kaarous Aldurald wrote: That's the other thing that irritates me about this. The "solution" doesn't even attempt to address the supposed problem. You want to know what the major reason that there are too many people in NPC corps instead of player corps? NPC corps are way too beneficial compared to player corps. There are too many benefits, and almost zero negatives. (unless for some reason you love using the busted POS mechanics) But we're not even going to touch that, no sir. We're going to use an obvious false flag to handwave away something that's been in the game since day 1. agreed. player corps need a massive overhaul. there's literally 0 reason to join a player corp (other than a 1 man alt corp to avoid a 11% tax rate).
Solecist Project All Glory to the HypnoBoobs 18877	Posted - 2015.01.17 08:29:57 - [478] - Quote Good morning, Dave! :) Ralph King-Griffin > ** you sol, years, **ing years since thats happend The Cuppy Cake Song <3 <3 <3 :D :D :D Come along now, come along with me and I'll eeaasee your pain..
Solecist Project All Glory to the HypnoBoobs 18877	Posted - 2015.01.17 08:31:58 - [479] - Quote Don Purple wrote: We can still snuggle :D This change for a time will make targets possibly feel safer. It will probably transition into more corp thefts over corp killing by the current guys. I look forward to the change. It will not stop us. Don. snuggles into your strong arms :) Ralph King-Griffin > ** you sol, years, **ing years since thats happend The Cuppy Cake Song <3 <3 <3 :D :D :D Come along now, come along with me and I'll eeaasee your pain..
Dave Stark 7262	Posted - 2015.01.17 08:38:31 - [480] - Quote Solecist Project wrote: Good morning, Dave! :) morning sol.

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