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Crumplecorn Eve Cluster Explorations 1892	Posted - 2015.01.16 12:47:10 - [91] - Quote Aiyshimin wrote: We, the fans, know how it is but I've lately come to the conclusion that cult following might not be enough anymore in 2015. There's 40% less people online during my prime time now than a few years ago, and that just weighs more than preserving a niche "play style". Over time the game becomes more carebeary. Over time, PCU drops. Obviously the solution is to become more carebeary. Aiyshimin wrote: I'd rather have 10 mission runners than 1 awoxer and only 5 mission runners. And I support CCP for seeing the same reality. You'd rather have more money and a dead game, than less money but a live game? Ok. Witty Image - Stream Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode ISD Community Communications Liaisons 4155	Posted - 2015.01.16 12:49:32 - [92] - Quote Removed an off topic post. ISD Dorrim Barstorlode Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department
Aiyshimin Shiva Furnace 335	Posted - 2015.01.16 13:09:21 - [93] - Quote Crumplecorn wrote: Aiyshimin wrote: We, the fans, know how it is but I've lately come to the conclusion that cult following might not be enough anymore in 2015. There's 40% less people online during my prime time now than a few years ago, and that just weighs more than preserving a niche "play style". Over time the game becomes more carebeary. Over time, PCU drops. Obviously the solution is to become more carebeary. Aiyshimin wrote: I'd rather have 10 mission runners than 1 awoxer and only 5 mission runners. And I support CCP for seeing the same reality. You'd rather have more money and a dead game, than less money but a live game? Ok. What do you mean by "EVE has become more carebeary", if that is what you imply? Sorry but I don't think awoxing a few mission boats every now and then makes for a live game, especially if it results in less people subscribing.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11221	Posted - 2015.01.16 13:11:27 - [94] - Quote Aiyshimin wrote: Sorry but I don't think awoxing a few mission boats every now and then makes for a live game, especially if it results in less people subscribing. I would think that further enabling people to bore themselves to death on the worst PvE in the MMO industry is the more likely cause of lower retention. Especially since CCP themselves has admitted that people who get into a PvE focused playstyle... eventually quit at a far higher rate than any other demographic of subscriber. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Sugar Smacks State War Academy Caldari State 19	Posted - 2015.01.16 13:13:31 - [95] - Quote Crumplecorn wrote: Aiyshimin wrote: We, the fans, know how it is but I've lately come to the conclusion that cult following might not be enough anymore in 2015. There's 40% less people online during my prime time now than a few years ago, and that just weighs more than preserving a niche "play style". Over time the game becomes more carebeary. Over time, PCU drops. Obviously the solution is to become more carebeary. Aiyshimin wrote: I'd rather have 10 mission runners than 1 awoxer and only 5 mission runners. And I support CCP for seeing the same reality. You'd rather have more money and a dead game, than less money but a live game? Ok. Im just curious how you got to the dead game conclusion when the solution had more players?
Aiyshimin Shiva Furnace 335	Posted - 2015.01.16 13:19:09 - [96] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Aiyshimin wrote: Sorry but I don't think awoxing a few mission boats every now and then makes for a live game, especially if it results in less people subscribing. I would think that further enabling people to bore themselves to death on the worst PvE in the MMO industry is the more likely cause of lower retention. Especially since CCP themselves has admitted that people who get into a PvE focused playstyle... eventually quit at a far higher rate than any other demographic of subscriber. You don't have to run boring PVE if you don't want to? "awoxing needs to stay because PVE is ****" is pretty far fetched and I think you know it. Anyway, improving PVE is completely detached topic from this discussion, and is actually being worked on according to CCP.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11221	Posted - 2015.01.16 13:25:53 - [97] - Quote Aiyshimin wrote: You don't have to run boring PVE if you don't want to? And if any chance of PvP interaction keeps getting cut out of highsec, how are newbies supposed to figure that out? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
flaming phantom T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 81	Posted - 2015.01.16 13:28:57 - [98] - Quote I say good riddance. I have never even been at either end of the awoxing stick, but it jsut always seemed like a stupid mechanic. It should hopefully allow more corps to open up to new players since they have less to lose. If someone wants to quit because they can't awox, then we just have 1 less griefer. I would much prefer to have more people in game doing actual PVP and not shooting fish in a barrel. How did that even make sense in the first place? It's not like I am allowed to go to my work IRL and start punching people until i get their wallets without any police repurcussions. Why should people be allowed to kill their corp members without repurcussions? All great men have mustaches
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11221	Posted - 2015.01.16 13:31:16 - [99] - Quote flaming phantom wrote: It's not like I am allowed to go to my work IRL and start punching people until i get their wallets without any police repurcussions. Why should people be allowed to kill their corp members without repurcussions? If we're talking about realism, then I'd like a more realistic police response time please. Real life cops don't show up in less than a minute. Or less than ten, for that matter, and they typically don't come without being called. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Aiyshimin Shiva Furnace 335	Posted - 2015.01.16 13:31:35 - [100] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Aiyshimin wrote: You don't have to run boring PVE if you don't want to? And if any chance of PvP interaction keeps getting cut out of highsec, how are newbies supposed to figure that out? By leaving hisec? You know, to the places where the PVP actually happens.
Tim Timpson Solitude Trading 1	Posted - 2015.01.16 13:31:55 - [101] - Quote Black Pedro wrote: I honestly don't really think this change to highsec awoxing is going to change much either way. But my data does show that awoxing targets are primarily older, established players contrary to the assumptions of many here who are using the "think of the noobs" excuse. This of course makes perfect sense as why would a player spend time to train a spy and infiltrate a corp just to blow up some new player in a Venture? They are targeting juicy bling mission ships and big industrials that are of course flown by older, established pilots. How the retention rate of the tiny number of new players who were caught up in an awox compares to the overall retention rate of the game is something this data does not say. Only CCP has that data. Does your data show how many new players were rejected from corp membership because they are new and therefore look like an awoxer? The problem is you are looking at the wrong data. I'm sure new players don't get targeted that much, but CCP is suggesting that new players are often not invited into decent corps (because any sensible corp has restrictions that stop awox alts) and that not joining a decent corp leads more players to quit. This change is to encourage players to more freely recruit new players, not to stop new players getting blown up.
Aiyshimin Shiva Furnace 335	Posted - 2015.01.16 13:33:13 - [102] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: flaming phantom wrote: It's not like I am allowed to go to my work IRL and start punching people until i get their wallets without any police repurcussions. Why should people be allowed to kill their corp members without repurcussions? If we're talking about realism, then I'd like a more realistic police response time please. Real life cops don't show up in less than a minute. Or less than ten, for that matter, and they typically don't come without being called. You'd also be sitting in jail and reimbursing your victims, so maybe that's not the path you want to pursue any further.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11221	Posted - 2015.01.16 13:33:37 - [103] - Quote Aiyshimin wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Aiyshimin wrote: You don't have to run boring PVE if you don't want to? And if any chance of PvP interaction keeps getting cut out of highsec, how are newbies supposed to figure that out? By leaving hisec? You know, to the places where the PVP actually happens. Except that we already know that isn't happening. CCP themselves has told us, people get stuck in highsec doing PvE until they quit of boredom. Or are you suggesting that we move the newbie starting areas to lowsec? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Solops Crendraven Solops Inc 48	Posted - 2015.01.16 13:40:15 - [104] - Quote A woxing ok there is no wrong or right everybody has a different Motivation why they play Eve OnlineHowever to gain more new players and not to lose subs we need to tone down alot the grief and Competition and(PvP) and encourage more now the socializing factors and escapism and questing And(PvE)if you look at any successful MMO (WOW) It Has a lot of everything PvP and PVE.The Key Is Finding The Middle ground where all types of players can Enjoy and have Fun isnt that why we all play games anyway? Check Me Out!!! On Twitch Tv 24/7 enter link description here
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 675	Posted - 2015.01.16 13:40:46 - [105] - Quote Starbuck05 wrote: Aiyshimin wrote: Starbuck05 wrote: While i can understand personaly that ccp needs to do something to increase they're wallets because lets face it, ccp's workers do not survive as the general high sec pirates on tears ,unfortunately , i still do not agree of this simply because it takes away more then half of what eve trully is at its core. Hisec awoxing more than 50% of EVE's true core? That's beyond delusional. not awoxing .. .. pvp in general , beeing a pirate etc You realise they're not removing it, but making it into the normal crimewatch mechanics, right? At least that is the global assumption. If you think that stops people dying, I suggest you autopilot a freighter around for a while
Basil Pupkin Why So Platypus 97	Posted - 2015.01.16 13:40:49 - [106] - Quote Ima Wreckyou wrote: I love how the carebears get all excited and all "yummy griefer tears.. blah.." since this is obviously the only time they have something like a "win" in this game if CCP changes the rules. However, I would like to point out a couple of things: We will adapt and you will cry again like always. Carebears will again meet in the forums and share their tears because someone was shooting their spaceship in a spaceship shooting game. It will be just another nerf on the long list of nerfs to make Highsec safer and be another confirmation that James 315 was right, which will make more people join the cause => more dead carebears, more tears. If you can fit 8 blasters on a Catalyst and want to have some fun in EVE shooting the risk-averse carebears who want to make EVE like Hello Kitty Online join CODE. today. Coming from the most risk averse people in all of eve, doing only risk-averse activities, and specifically targeting people who aren't going to shoot back. Bah, adapt. Picking up next broken mechanics to abuse when the current one got finally fixed is hardly adapting, it's borderline exploiting, and with a goal of seeking easiest way to compensate for apparent lack of weener length by taking it out on newbies. Suicide wanking has received a lot of buffs, which is why even baddies like you can do it now. I'm waiting to see it fixed so you would declare "victory" against "afk miners" and go tamper with incursion runners instead with the next easymode exploit you find, until it's also fixed. And bring more tears, CODE tears are pretty low quality, but enough of them still would make my day. A crap ton equals 1000 crap loads in metric, and roughly 91 shit loads 12 bull shits and 1 puppy's unforeseen disaster in imperial.
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 461	Posted - 2015.01.16 13:40:59 - [107] - Quote Aiyshimin wrote: There's no love lost between me and terrible hisec corps and their "bot-aspirant behaviour" (yes, I quoted James for extra hisec wanker points), but in the end their existence doesn't hurt the game, quite contrary. When it comes to decisions, I'd rather have 10 mission runners than 1 awoxer and only 5 mission runners. And I support CCP for seeing the same reality. And again, if the real motive for awoxing is protecting New Eden from terrible hisec failcorps, then making a better hisec corp would be a more efficient solution. However, it's not the motive, it's "tears". And sub numbers > tears. Think of the game. I agree - changes that would minimize the chances of new players ending up in highsec failcorps would be way better for the game. But this change may do the opposite. It will stabilize these fail corps and allow them to spam invites in rookie systems without risk. More players may end up in these corps, and a larger number may quit Eve a few months later after having a boring time doing nothing but being taxed by a malicious CEO. Their existence actually does hurt the game, at least in their ability to capture new players and preventing them from having a better initial Eve experience in a proper corp, whether that be in highsec, lowsec, or wherever. Whether the number of new players that find their way to good highsec corps that now will recruit will offset the number trapped in the increased number of failcorps and who will quit Eve because of that is the big question. The intention of awoxers ("tears" as you call them) is irrelevant to the real risk they currently provide to highsec corps. Let's hope CCP knows what they are doing. Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10 is a good idea.
Tim Timpson Solitude Trading 1	Posted - 2015.01.16 13:41:55 - [108] - Quote Aiyshimin wrote: "EVE is a game for greifers, ganking and scamming is rampant" is not correct or at best a half-truth, but it's unfortunately a persistent misconception often repeated. Actually it's pretty accurate. That's why there's calls to HTFU and statements that EVE isn't for everyone coming out all the time. The thing is for noobies it's doubly true. Since most of the "worst" behaviour occurs in highsec where the gankers and awoxers and scammers can be safe, newbies are thrown right into it. It's well known that what constitutes griefing in other games is allowed in EVE, and that tear collection is a common thing, and many people claim that it's that freedom which makes EVE what it is. The question comes down to whether CCP want to continue with that being the way EVE is portrayed, or if they want to grow a more diverse playerbase. At the end of the day it's their choice and I trust them to do what they need to to keep the game running.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 9336	Posted - 2015.01.16 13:44:35 - [109] - Quote Shailagh wrote: From direct csm summer meating quotes and other quotes..... The entire ONLY REASON FOR THIS CHANGE. Is player retention... Ccp says their statistics show that people that stay in npc corps quit eve faster and more often than those in player corps.. They also say the reason newbros cant join said retention-helping-hisec-carebear corps is cuz they wont recruit due to corpmate violence fears. So ccp thinks the way to retain players is to encourage hisec carebear corps to want to recruit newbros more and thinking away corpmate shooting will solve this and then retain more newbros and give more rl dollars in ccps hands.... Ccp cant you see this logic is flawed?? Some csm dudes even tried to say so. Wtf is the poijt of them is you dont listen?? This vhange and gonna increase RETENTION 1% IF ANYTJING GONNA MAKE OLDVETS QUIT MORE. Pretty much this. I started out in one of those "hi sec carebear corps" and spent my 1st year of EVE running missions "tryign to get enough isk and skill to go to null sec" like everyone else was. Meanwhile people were going to null on their 1st day and having a blast while I leveled up my Raven to a Navy Raven lol. They meant well, but my 1st corp was clueless and so averse to risk I think the main 2 leaders (a husband and wife team) quit before ever doing anything really interesting. I recently installed EVE online on a new computer and ran head 1st into CCPs 'nanny state'. SO much clicking of "are you sure you want to do this" boxes it was stupid. At some point, CCP has lost the idea that making mistakes , feeling bad about making that mistake and learning how not to make those mistakes (and awoxxing fits into this) are part of the HOOK of a game like EVE, and by holding people's hands all they are doing is chasing away good (innovative, mentally mature and able to handle imaginary loss or pixels)) players in the vain hope of keep a few more bad (entitled, stupid) players paying subs. I don't know (or really care) what happens to awoxxing in high sec, just saying that it's a pretty bad way of thinking CCP has going on.
Aiyshimin Shiva Furnace 335	Posted - 2015.01.16 13:44:39 - [110] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Aiyshimin wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Aiyshimin wrote: You don't have to run boring PVE if you don't want to? And if any chance of PvP interaction keeps getting cut out of highsec, how are newbies supposed to figure that out? By leaving hisec? You know, to the places where the PVP actually happens. Except that we already know that isn't happening. CCP themselves has told us, people get stuck in highsec doing PvE until they quit of boredom. Or are you suggesting that we move the newbie starting areas to lowsec? Are you implying that making them not even subscribe in the first place, or unsubbing because of awox is better solution than improving the PVE side, or working on other methods to encourage people to experience other areas of New Eden? Yes, I think it would be great to allow new players to start also in pirate NPC corps in lowsec. I was surprised that this was not an option when I started EVE.
Tim Timpson Solitude Trading 1	Posted - 2015.01.16 13:45:24 - [111] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Especially since CCP themselves has admitted that people who get into a PvE focused playstyle... eventually quit at a far higher rate than any other demographic of subscriber. They also claim that over 4 times the number of people who stay beyond a month do so for PVE than for PVP. And actually they claimed people in a solitary playstyle quit. People who played PVE and interacted with others while doing so were not in that group. You can keep misrepresenting what their last fanfest presentation stated, but it won't make it truth.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11222	Posted - 2015.01.16 13:47:29 - [112] - Quote Aiyshimin wrote: Are you implying that making them not even subscribe in the first place, or unsubbing because of awox is better solution than improving the PVE side, or working on other methods to encourage people to experience other areas of New Eden? No, I'm implying that you have one thing that you know works(player interaction and PvP content), and one thing that you know does not work(everything else). And putting way more emphasis on the thing that you know does not work, at the expense of the thing that does... is ludicrous. I'm implying that EVE should play to it's strengths. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Serene Repose 2095	Posted - 2015.01.16 13:47:43 - [113] - Quote It's the people who puff themselves up as the clear-thinking factoid users, who then bluster truisms, conjecture and buffoonery as though it is the gospel truth that I find difficult to believe. This thread is getting kinda THICK with it. It must be nice to be an EVE expert. Ex - the past, the was, the has been but is no more. Spurt - a drip under pressure. Expert - the has-been drip. Treason never prospers. What is the reason? Why, if it prospers, none dare call it "treason."
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 9337	Posted - 2015.01.16 13:49:30 - [114] - Quote Tim Timpson wrote: Aiyshimin wrote: "EVE is a game for greifers, ganking and scamming is rampant" is not correct or at best a half-truth, but it's unfortunately a persistent misconception often repeated. Actually it's pretty accurate. That's why there's calls to HTFU and statements that EVE isn't for everyone coming out all the time. The thing is for noobies it's doubly true. Since most of the "worst" behaviour occurs in highsec where the gankers and awoxers and scammers can be safe, newbies are thrown right into it. It's well known that what constitutes griefing in other games is allowed in EVE, and that tear collection is a common thing, and many people claim that it's that freedom which makes EVE what it is. It very much is. Some of us understand that 'freedom' doesn't just mean "I am free to do as i wish" it means "We are ALL free to do as we wish and some d-bag will use his freedom in a way I don't like". Quote: The question comes down to whether CCP want to continue with that being the way EVE is portrayed, or if they want to grow a more diverse playerbase. At the end of the day it's their choice and I trust them to do what they need to to keep the game running. It is their choice, but they'd be choosing to kill EVE online if they go for the 'more diverse playerbase'. All people are not equal, and the 'more diverse' types wouldn't play this game year after year the way we have.
Tim Timpson Solitude Trading 2	Posted - 2015.01.16 13:52:24 - [115] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: No, I'm implying that you have one thing that you know works(player interaction and PvP content), and one thing that you know does not work(everything else). And putting way more emphasis on the thing that you know does not work, at the expense of the thing that does... is ludicrous. I'm implying that EVE should play to it's strengths. Except you have a warped view of what those strengths are. PVE is a core part of the game and there are thousands of players who PVE all the time and also don't quit. And to be quite honest, since more players join seeking PVE then leave disappointed, playing to their strength would be improving PVE to the point that people don;t leave disappointed.
Aiyshimin Shiva Furnace 336	Posted - 2015.01.16 13:53:30 - [116] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Aiyshimin wrote: You'd also be sitting in jail and reimbursing your victims, so maybe that's not the path you want to pursue any further. No, let's totally go there. In real life, being rich and/or famous gets you off the hook for damn near anything, often literally murder. In EVE Online, you are not just rich, not just famous, but literally a demigod. You aren't even mortal, and you have the wealth of dozens of planets as pocket change. If not for the minor inconvenience that CONCORD controls the clone relay network.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 9337	Posted - 2015.01.16 13:56:54 - [117] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Aiyshimin wrote: Are you implying that making them not even subscribe in the first place, or unsubbing because of awox is better solution than improving the PVE side, or working on other methods to encourage people to experience other areas of New Eden? No, I'm implying that you have one thing that you know works(player interaction and PvP content), and one thing that you know does not work(everything else). And putting way more emphasis on the thing that you know does not work, at the expense of the thing that does... is ludicrous. I'm implying that EVE should play to it's strengths. You're butting your head up against "conventional wisdom" that's just as wrong in real life as it is here. The truth is, human beings are the worse people at ask about the human condition lol. we need some martians to come help. CCP heres all this complaining about stuff, and they act on it, making the business mistake of listening to the wrong customers. Wal-mart did that and last a little bit of money. CCp is doing the same thing and now wondering why a game that was steadily growing for 10 years when it was 'cold, harsh and unfriendly' some how stopped growing when they added safeties, improved crime watch and pop ups that prevent you from stubbing your toes....
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11222	Posted - 2015.01.16 13:58:44 - [118] - Quote Aiyshimin wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Aiyshimin wrote: You'd also be sitting in jail and reimbursing your victims, so maybe that's not the path you want to pursue any further. No, let's totally go there. In real life, being rich and/or famous gets you off the hook for damn near anything, often literally murder. In EVE Online, you are not just rich, not just famous, but literally a demigod. You aren't even mortal, and you have the wealth of dozens of planets as pocket change. If not for the minor inconvenience that CONCORD controls the clone relay network. So? If we're playing the "EVE should be like real life" card, then not only will I not do any time, but I'll stroll out of there and they'll hand me the keys to my bloodstained Bugatti and say "so sorry for the inconvenience, sir". And I'm not even that rich in game. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Tim Timpson Solitude Trading 3	Posted - 2015.01.16 14:02:23 - [119] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: It very much is. Some of us understand that 'freedom' doesn't just mean "I am free to do as i wish" it means "We are ALL free to do as we wish and some d-bag will use his freedom in a way I don't like". Except we're not free to do as we wish. We are free to work within the parameters set by CCP. If they choose to change those parameters, that's perfectly fine. Jenn aSide wrote: It is their choice, but they'd be choosing to kill EVE online if they go for the 'more diverse playerbase'. All people are not equal, and the 'more diverse' types wouldn't play this game year after year the way we have. No, it wouldn't kill EVE. There are many veteran players who would be happy with a more diverse playerbase. Just because you wouldn't like it doesn't suddenly mean the game would stop being EVE, it simply wouldn't fit your expectations. And how do you know that "more diverse" type wouldn't play longer than a year? That's purely based on the current iteration of the game where "more diverse" types don't like it. If it did appeal to them, of course they would stay longer. Your playstyle isn't the be all and end all of EVE. What you think is absolutely irrelevant if CCP choose to go in a different direction. They've shown that they are not afraid of losing a handful of bittervets if it brings a big enough benefit, and if they change something you don;t like and you ragequit, they won't care. That said, I don't believe anything would make most bittervets leave. People always talk about it being the end of EVE and older players leaving in swathes, but even if they went full WoW, I doubt many of them would really quit. They'd just sit around for eternity whining about each and every change... Oh wait, that's already what happens.
Solops Crendraven Solops Inc 48	Posted - 2015.01.16 14:04:26 - [120] - Quote Tim Timpson wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Especially since CCP themselves has admitted that people who get into a PvE focused playstyle... eventually quit at a far higher rate than any other demographic of subscriber. They also claim that over 4 times the number of people who stay beyond a month do so for PVE than for PVP. And actually they claimed people in a solitary playstyle quit. People who played PVE and interacted with others while doing so were not in that group. You can keep misrepresenting what their last fanfest presentation stated, but it won't make it truth. Look I Play PvP all Day in other games I play Eve To escape and explore thats the reason why people quit is because there is to much PVP and not enough PvE content to immerse in besides the mission grinds. Check Me Out!!! On Twitch Tv 24/7 enter link description here

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