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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
623
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Posted - 2015.03.09 22:19:05 -
[931] - Quote
M1k3y Koontz wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:M1k3y Koontz wrote:https://i.imgur.com/dZoUBJK.jpg
45 DPS at 124km, your interceptor is dead in under a minute (55.5 seconds, yes I did the math) It's also a fifth the cost. Your move. please do not post fits that only kill the interceptor inside of a very short, narrow range where the interceptor would not be in any even remotely plausible pvp scenario basically only post RLML fits, and even then i hope you have 200km+ range "look at the graph it has a point this is where I can guarantee a ship to be at all times" Reload with Iron and it'll deal 90 DPS from 20km to 100. That fit will kill interceptors, any range a Rapier can't web at. i'm sure if you ask nicely the interceptor will sit inside this range for you while you wait for target lock to complete |
Acuma
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2015.03.09 22:21:01 -
[932] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote: a personal attack requires an attack on a person, not his posts
unless you identify as an anthropomorphic forums post in which case consider my biology privilege thoroughly checked
Are you new to the internet? Attacking someone's grammar when you fail to make your argument.......LMAO
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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
623
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Posted - 2015.03.09 22:21:07 -
[933] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:And the celestis isn't there to catch the interceptor, only to neutralize it. You don't have to destroy an opponent to inhibit them.
the best part is where everyone has given up on the dream of trying to kill the interceptor and are now just trying to damp it out
it's almost like everyone instinctively knows that interceptors are too difficult to kill in any normal pvp situation |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15436
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Posted - 2015.03.09 22:21:12 -
[934] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:EvilweaselFinance wrote:Eli Apol wrote: I'm using the maximum for effect - we can do 27minutes instead and still have a 29:12 ratio of time wasted by the trollceptor pilot versus the defender. Point still stands.
edit: And just done with replying to the ship-toaster not the thread in general :)
so yes, we remain in a bore-off but without the thin advantage of a massive inbalance in favor of the defender, merely a moderate one what fun The only real disadvantage is being inflicted on sov holders with more systems than they can cover... everybody else is just fine., thanks.
Having battles over sov consisting of nothing but trollcepters and their ineffective counters is not a healthy game or what CCP wants.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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1nverted
What Could Go Wrong Overload Everything
2
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Posted - 2015.03.09 22:21:49 -
[935] - Quote
It seems incredible that some people are still defending trollceptors in light of Fozzie's original post:. In that post, he said this:
We've been seeing quite a bit of concern from parts of the community that the Entosis Link mechanics will push people to pure evasion fits, the so called trollceptors. It goes without saying that we do not want the sov war meta turn into nothing but sensor boosting Interceptors, but we have plenty of time and tools to help ensure that scenario doesn't occur.
One of the points of this thread is to discuss how CCP can avoid trollceptors becoming a thing.
I suggest a speed limit of 3500m/s on ships using the entosis link.
Goons should stop saying how stupid trollceptors are (that is a given) and start making suggestions as to how to avoid them.
The other posters should stop defending the idea of a trollceptor. Fozzie's post says that CCP's focus is to ensure a command node is won by the party controlling the grid. Kiting interceptors at 10,000m/s do not fulfil that goal and will therefore not be allowed. |
God's Apples
Genos Occidere Warlords of the Deep
573
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Posted - 2015.03.09 22:22:22 -
[936] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:God's Apples wrote:I really don't see how inties are a problem. One info linked maulus/keres/celestis prevents at least 3 ships from locking anywhere past linked FN web huginn/rapier web range. Even if the inty or t3 dessy or whatever had 250km lock range, a single bonused info linked damp brings you down 66.6%, or 83.25km lock range. Moreover, because the entosis timer is reset when you lose lock, you just have to cycle damps between as many ships as you can lock to repeatedly restart their timers. Here is an example fit: [Celestis, Entosis Counter] 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II True Sansha Energized Explosive Membrane Damage Control II
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening Script Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening Script Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening Script Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening Script
Auto Targeting System I Auto Targeting System I 125mm Gatling AutoCannon I, EMP S
Medium Inverted Signal Field Projector I Medium Anti-Thermic Pump I Medium Anti-Kinetic Pump I
With 1 resebo and infolinks it can lock 12 targets at up to 242km. If you truly have control over the battlefield, then a handful of damp ships can fend off a horde of inties. Your lack of critical thinking skills are not justifiable cause to complain about a mechanic. disengage and move to next target with a healthy lawl over using faction hardeners on a celestis also that 1600mm plate is sure gonna help you catching up to an interceptor
Yes because you're trying to catch inties with a ******* celestis...
You really are a moron. The faction hard costs next to nothing. The point is that there are going to be 5 of these beacons in a region. 1 celestis counters 12 inties. It's not hard to do the math to realize that you only need 40 - 50 if that many people to defend against 250 - 400 inties.
Think about it. To defend against 50 inties you need 3 celestises, a huginn, a lach, 3 guardians, and a couple long range dps (protei, legions, zealots, ishtars, etc). Remember that with the exception of the guardians, all of those ships can fit entosis links of their own (the 125 AC is just a placeholder on my celestis fit). There, you just countered a 50 man inty blob with 10 - 12 dudes.
"Hydra Reloaded are just jealous / butthurt on me / us because we can get tons of PVP action in empire while they aren't good enough to get that." - NightmareX
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Acuma
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2015.03.09 22:22:53 -
[937] - Quote
Seems mostly that only the goonies are afraid of trollceptors.......even with their "superior numbers" and their "we'll burn null sec to the ground if this is allowed." Wonder why that is? Too much space? To many renters? Afraid of spread out fights instead of blobs? |
1nverted
What Could Go Wrong Overload Everything
2
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Posted - 2015.03.09 22:23:07 -
[938] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:EvilweaselFinance wrote:Eli Apol wrote: I'm using the maximum for effect - we can do 27minutes instead and still have a 29:12 ratio of time wasted by the trollceptor pilot versus the defender. Point still stands.
edit: And just done with replying to the ship-toaster not the thread in general :)
so yes, we remain in a bore-off but without the thin advantage of a massive inbalance in favor of the defender, merely a moderate one what fun The only real disadvantage is being inflicted on sov holders with more systems than they can cover... everybody else is just fine., thanks. Having battles over sov consisting of nothing but trollcepters and their ineffective counters is not a healthy game or what CCP wants.
QUOTE FOR TRUTH
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Nolak Ataru
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
767
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Posted - 2015.03.09 22:23:30 -
[939] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Having battles over sov consisting of nothing but trollcepters and their ineffective counters is not a healthy game or what CCP wants. Jesus christ I'm agreeing with baltec1....... |
Yroc Jannseen
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
68
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Posted - 2015.03.09 22:23:57 -
[940] - Quote
Acuma wrote:Seems mostly that only the goonies are afraid of trollceptors.......even with their "superior numbers" and their "we'll burn null sec to the ground if this is allowed." Wonder why that is? Too much space? To many renters? Afraid of spread out fights instead of blobs?
You confuse fear with telling you exactly what is going to happen to everyone else. |
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
155
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Posted - 2015.03.09 22:24:41 -
[941] - Quote
Theorycrafting is of little help here IMO, put that thing on SiSi and we can experiment ...
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Acuma
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2015.03.09 22:25:34 -
[942] - Quote
Yroc Jannseen wrote:Acuma wrote:Seems mostly that only the goonies are afraid of trollceptors.......even with their "superior numbers" and their "we'll burn null sec to the ground if this is allowed." Wonder why that is? Too much space? To many renters? Afraid of spread out fights instead of blobs? You confuse fear with telling you exactly what is going to happen to everyone else. Nah, a lone ceptor is worthless. To take sovereignty, you'll have to bring more. That includes destroying ihubs. This is much ado about nothing, probably cause ya'll don't want to defend empty systems.
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Alp Khan
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
291
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Posted - 2015.03.09 22:26:11 -
[943] - Quote
MASSADEATH wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:Veskrashen wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:MASSADEATH wrote:come on a corm sniping fleet :) and it will cure your doubts ah yes the cormorant with its staggering 80-100km range Combat probes will land it in engagement range every time. 100km is plenty when you land within 50-70km of your target. combat probes show up on dscan the interceptor gets to disengage before you even start aligning for warp in your slow ass destroyers DO YOU GUYS EVEN PVP? are you telling me you are incapable of killing ceptors? you just alpha them off the grid.... lock target.... POP..... ceptor gone.... heck you even know the max range of where they have to be around a given structure...
If you consider exclusively dropping on AFK ratting ships in stealth bombers, or flying around in interceptors that CANNOT be tracked by guns and can easily burn out of effective missile ranges, no. We don't at all. Nobody does, because it's only a few organizations that deceive themselves into believing that they are -truly- masters of ~elite PvP~.
I would, on the other hand, also love to hear what your definition of real gang engagements, or fleet battles are. Those require commitment and shooting at stuff that might shoot you back after all. Anyway, let's move on with the matter at hand.
Now, aside from your failed rhetoric, a proper interceptor will always be able to burn out of any weapon range that can hit it. Then he can simply do grid-fu and for all intents and purposes, be gone.
The reason you are deceptive and are deflecting with empty rhetoric and non-substantial claims like "TARGET.. SHOOT.. POP.. INTERCEPTOR GONE.." (which is not true, as anyone worth their salt knows it) you already realize the inherent low cost (on SP, on hull and module price) of an interceptor, and are counting on that. An interceptor is a cheap ship. You aren't losing anything serious, and you can easily chain lose them, or just throw tens or cheap, insta-warp entosis interceptors around a large region to create havoc.
What you want is exactly why cheap ships that are able to travel around by ignoring any gatecamp or defensive effort is broken;
You want to be able to contest without commitment. You want to be able to contest without dedicating resources. You want to talk the talk, but you don't really want to walk the walk.
I don't think that's something that is realistically going to happen (nor it should ever be) under any circumstance, sorry. |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
626
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Posted - 2015.03.09 22:26:14 -
[944] - Quote
God's Apples wrote: Think about it. To defend against 50 inties you need 3 celestises, a huginn, a lach, 3 guardians, and a couple long range dps (protei, legions, zealots, ishtars, etc). Remember that with the exception of the guardians, all of those ships can fit entosis links of their own (the 125 AC is just a placeholder on my celestis fit). There, you just countered a 50 man inty blob with 10 - 12 dudes.
how does this recon/sniper gang cover 50 objectives at once |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15436
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Posted - 2015.03.09 22:26:35 -
[945] - Quote
Acuma wrote:Seems mostly that only the goonies are afraid of trollceptors.......even with their "superior numbers" and their "we'll burn null sec to the ground if this is allowed." Wonder why that is? Too much space? To many renters? Afraid of spread out fights instead of blobs? All it takes is a tanked out maller alt sitting on a structure......ya'll don't have alts?
So were you also one of the people that defended tech moons when we said they were a terrible idea?
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Veskrashen
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
759
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Posted - 2015.03.09 22:27:29 -
[946] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:Veskrashen wrote: Since the only significant advantage they have over cloaky nullfiied T3s is their <=2sec align time
this just in signature radius and speed are not significant or advantages Nope, not really. Not when your signature radius and speed aren't significant enough to save you from being murderfied by anyone with half a brain.
We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
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Acuma
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
6
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Posted - 2015.03.09 22:27:58 -
[947] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Acuma wrote:Seems mostly that only the goonies are afraid of trollceptors.......even with their "superior numbers" and their "we'll burn null sec to the ground if this is allowed." Wonder why that is? Too much space? To many renters? Afraid of spread out fights instead of blobs? All it takes is a tanked out maller alt sitting on a structure......ya'll don't have alts? So were you also one of the people that defended tech moons when we said they were a terrible idea?
So you like arguing with strawmen? |
M1k3y Koontz
Aether Ventures Surely You're Joking
733
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Posted - 2015.03.09 22:28:21 -
[948] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:God's Apples wrote:I really don't see how inties are a problem. One info linked maulus/keres/celestis prevents at least 3 ships from locking anywhere past linked FN web huginn/rapier web range. Even if the inty or t3 dessy or whatever had 250km lock range, a single bonused info linked damp brings you down 66.6%, or 83.25km lock range. Moreover, because the entosis timer is reset when you lose lock, you just have to cycle damps between as many ships as you can lock to repeatedly restart their timers. Here is an example fit: [Celestis, Entosis Counter] 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II True Sansha Energized Explosive Membrane Damage Control II
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening Script Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening Script Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening Script Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening Script
Auto Targeting System I Auto Targeting System I 125mm Gatling AutoCannon I, EMP S
Medium Inverted Signal Field Projector I Medium Anti-Thermic Pump I Medium Anti-Kinetic Pump I
With 1 resebo and infolinks it can lock 12 targets at up to 242km. If you truly have control over the battlefield, then a handful of damp ships can fend off a horde of inties. Your lack of critical thinking skills are not justifiable cause to complain about a mechanic. disengage and move to next target with a healthy lawl over using faction hardeners on a celestis also that 1600mm plate is sure gonna help you catching up to an interceptor
The inty ran away? Defense successful. Whats the problem?
Also the faction explosive hardener is a few hundred thousand isk, maybe a few mill. They aren't pricey.
How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
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Eli Apol
Pro Synergy
350
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Posted - 2015.03.09 22:28:34 -
[949] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:EvilweaselFinance wrote:Eli Apol wrote: I'm using the maximum for effect - we can do 27minutes instead and still have a 29:12 ratio of time wasted by the trollceptor pilot versus the defender. Point still stands.
edit: And just done with replying to the ship-toaster not the thread in general :)
so yes, we remain in a bore-off but without the thin advantage of a massive inbalance in favor of the defender, merely a moderate one what fun The only real disadvantage is being inflicted on sov holders with more systems than they can cover... everybody else is just fine., thanks. Having battles over sov consisting of nothing but trollcepters and their ineffective counters is not a healthy game or what CCP wants. From what I'm reading - there is no intent to actually battle over sov. It was a stupid idea trying to show an exploit in the mechanics that could be used as griefing and which has now been proven multiple times to actually cause more grief for the person trying to do it if the space is defended as well as risk fairly expensive frigates to do so.
Proper sov 'battles' will still involve proper 'battling' ships.
So yes I agree with you, trollceptors and their numerous counters won't play a part in actual sov warfare - aside from some specific usage as a questionable method of attrition. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6591
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Posted - 2015.03.09 22:28:43 -
[950] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:EvilweaselFinance wrote:Eli Apol wrote: I'm using the maximum for effect - we can do 27minutes instead and still have a 29:12 ratio of time wasted by the trollceptor pilot versus the defender. Point still stands.
edit: And just done with replying to the ship-toaster not the thread in general :)
so yes, we remain in a bore-off but without the thin advantage of a massive inbalance in favor of the defender, merely a moderate one what fun The only real disadvantage is being inflicted on sov holders with more systems than they can cover... everybody else is just fine., thanks. Having battles over sov consisting of nothing but trollcepters and their ineffective counters is not a healthy game or what CCP wants. Whoa there
How do you know it isn't what ccp wants
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
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Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
4241
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Posted - 2015.03.09 22:28:50 -
[951] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:And the celestis isn't there to catch the interceptor, only to neutralize it. You don't have to destroy an opponent to inhibit them.
the best part is where everyone has given up on the dream of trying to kill the interceptor and are now just trying to damp it out it's almost like everyone instinctively knows that interceptors are too difficult to kill in any normal pvp situation
I'm not a fan of interdiction nullification... on any ship.
That being said, inties have their weaknesses as well as strengths. They can be sniped and/or caught by insta-lock gate camps. They aren't easy to catch and kill, especially if they are warping around the system, but that doesn't mean they accomplish anything. I can bring in an inty and inhibit miners and ratters today, the main difference is that an inty pilot today is more limited in the trouble they can cause. |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
626
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Posted - 2015.03.09 22:29:26 -
[952] - Quote
Acuma wrote:Seems mostly that only the goonies are afraid of trollceptors....... argumentum ad populum |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6591
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Posted - 2015.03.09 22:30:42 -
[953] - Quote
Yroc Jannseen wrote:Acuma wrote:Seems mostly that only the goonies are afraid of trollceptors.......even with their "superior numbers" and their "we'll burn null sec to the ground if this is allowed." Wonder why that is? Too much space? To many renters? Afraid of spread out fights instead of blobs? You confuse fear with telling you exactly what is going to happen to everyone else. Our 0.0 dream will be ended.
moa will take our sov and we will be forced into a new world of not having our sov anymore
i don't think anyone is even getting it, i feel so discouraged. especially after hearing moa was in it as mercs. i don't know who to trust anymore
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
626
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Posted - 2015.03.09 22:31:23 -
[954] - Quote
Veskrashen wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:Veskrashen wrote: Since the only significant advantage they have over cloaky nullfiied T3s is their <=2sec align time
this just in signature radius and speed are not significant or advantages Nope, not really. Not when your signature radius and speed aren't significant enough to save you from being murderfied by anyone with half a brain. what's tracking precious |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
626
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Posted - 2015.03.09 22:32:12 -
[955] - Quote
M1k3y Koontz wrote:The inty ran away? Defense successful. Whats the problem?
the interceptor did not die and is hitting a new structure |
M1k3y Koontz
Aether Ventures Surely You're Joking
733
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Posted - 2015.03.09 22:32:15 -
[956] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:M1k3y Koontz wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:M1k3y Koontz wrote:https://i.imgur.com/dZoUBJK.jpg
45 DPS at 124km, your interceptor is dead in under a minute (55.5 seconds, yes I did the math) It's also a fifth the cost. Your move. please do not post fits that only kill the interceptor inside of a very short, narrow range where the interceptor would not be in any even remotely plausible pvp scenario basically only post RLML fits, and even then i hope you have 200km+ range "look at the graph it has a point this is where I can guarantee a ship to be at all times" Reload with Iron and it'll deal 90 DPS from 20km to 100. That fit will kill interceptors, any range a Rapier can't web at. i'm sure if you ask nicely the interceptor will sit inside this range for you while you wait for target lock to complete
https://i.imgur.com/lijxgt4.jpg
Oh look, I can hit at any range over 40km. If it's closer than 40km any Rapier could kill it without breaking a sweat.
How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
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Acuma
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
6
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Posted - 2015.03.09 22:32:55 -
[957] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:Acuma wrote:Seems mostly that only the goonies are afraid of trollceptors....... argumentum ad populum Not really, since most of Eve isn't goonies. Do you wanna try to refute facts or just divert? |
Tycho VI
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
8
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Posted - 2015.03.09 22:33:26 -
[958] - Quote
Some people might find it fun....but honestly, having to attend 4 hour CTA where u gotta go out and deal with arty claw fleets, svipul fleets, exclusively where no real value is put on the table...all the time....otherwise your station assets get locked out...
meh might actually have more fun just staging out of lowsec |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
626
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Posted - 2015.03.09 22:34:35 -
[959] - Quote
M1k3y Koontz wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:M1k3y Koontz wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:M1k3y Koontz wrote:https://i.imgur.com/dZoUBJK.jpg
45 DPS at 124km, your interceptor is dead in under a minute (55.5 seconds, yes I did the math) It's also a fifth the cost. Your move. please do not post fits that only kill the interceptor inside of a very short, narrow range where the interceptor would not be in any even remotely plausible pvp scenario basically only post RLML fits, and even then i hope you have 200km+ range "look at the graph it has a point this is where I can guarantee a ship to be at all times" Reload with Iron and it'll deal 90 DPS from 20km to 100. That fit will kill interceptors, any range a Rapier can't web at. i'm sure if you ask nicely the interceptor will sit inside this range for you while you wait for target lock to complete https://i.imgur.com/lijxgt4.jpg
Oh look, I can hit at any range over 40km. If it's closer than 40km any Rapier could kill it without breaking a sweat. i see that your tactic is now making the engagement range smaller and smaller when the interceptor is shrugging out at 120km |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
626
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Posted - 2015.03.09 22:35:23 -
[960] - Quote
Acuma wrote: Not really, since most of Eve isn't goonies. Do you wanna try to refute facts or just divert?
that is not what argumentum ad populum means |
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